Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
The reason I'm doing this is to identify where real differences do/don't exist. In particular, I'm interested in resolving issues around firmware/sc versions that allegedly alter the sound. By creating a set of reference recordings for each generation of SC/firmware I can easily go back and compare any two versions. This is isn't about better or worse (that's for the brain to decide) - just different. Every time this crops up we keep hitting the same "bit-perfect" brick wall. By testing the DAC output we can see if anything is really changing the audio (whether the change matters or not and if it is better/worse are different debates). Right now I just want to know if there IS a change. By the way, for those folks who claim to be able to hear detail well below the noise floor, there are some test files you can download from the ADM site that you can use to prove it. Can you hear the full marching band hidden in the noise floor? :) Be honest! However, a spin-off benefit is that the same methodology/tools can be applied to cables, software settings, mains filters - anything actually. Let's put it this way, if putting $200 feet under my SB made no MEASURABLE difference then I'm not going to put them there... A consequence of this is that I may well end up changing my setup. However, it will all be on the basis of listening not just blindly following the software. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] suitable DAC to match current setup?
To give you a baseline for what sounds (enuf) good to *me*... my current, and comfortably old system is a Micromega stage 1 cd player into Audiolab 8000A pre/power amp and Tannoy 609 speakers. It has it's drawbacks (particularly mid-range at low volumes) but on the whole it's acceptably clean and precise. So... what DAC I should plugin to the sb3 I just ordered in order to get a comparable sound to the setup above? Likely candidates seem to be the beresford or dac magic... but I admit ignorance! (I thought about opening up the cd player and adding an input, but stopped just in time:)) rgds all, good forum, g. -- slackgraham slackgraham's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=24814 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60107 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Phil, Many thanks for conducting these experiments. I find this to be a fascinating topic. Reason is highly underrated, lol. -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
opaqueice;396422 Wrote: > Try your TacT on passthrough compared to the SB out. You never tracked > down the source of that distortion, right? It would be interesting to > see how much effect it has on music. Will do... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Phil Leigh;396062 Wrote: > Audiodiffmaker > > We've discussed this before... but things have moved on! > > http://www.libinst.com/Audio%20DiffMaker.htm > > Try your TacT on passthrough compared to the SB out. You never tracked down the source of that distortion, right? It would be interesting to see how much effect it has on music. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Phil Leigh;396314 Wrote: > What's interesting is how much you have to boost the difference to hear > anything... > > Darren, > You are right that a measured difference may still be inaudible. It > depends how loud it is compared to the noise floor and other masking > phenomena. The software lets you test this really easily. > > So far, MP3 (via LAME) is pretty obviously different. As for expensive > spdif coax... > > Also, downsampling hirez seems pretty worthwhile & effective... :) > > I'm getting a correlation depth of -80dB on most tests. That's pretty > low in the mix! > > By the way, stock PSU's sound pretty good... and I can reccomend > turning off the SB3 display if using its analogue outs, but for digital > out it makes no difference... Exactly. As the last line of the web page say, In other words, if the gear isn't good enough, you'll be able to hear it, it won't make a difference go silent. Which basically means, dont turn up the gain, listen to the resultant at the same level one listened to the originals. So if you have to crank the gain up, one couldnt hear the difference anyway. It is my opinion that looking at the resulting graph is more of an indication then listening to the remaining audio. The whole problem with this is the subtraction part of the theory. Yes, taking two fairly close signals and subtracting one from the other does tend to show the difference between the two signals, BUT if they are really really close it doesn't leave much to listen to which is the problem with this method. It is faulty logic from the standpoint that it performs best and shows the most contrast when signals diverge the most. Which means that in the case where most people can hear the difference anyway, the program does its best work providing a big example. And it also means that when there are very insignificant differences (which by the way is what were looking for and talking about here) the program (audio wise) does the least or performs at its worst as far as its ability to boldly show major differences! One needs the graph at this point, as there is hardly any audio to listen to. More over if there is hardly anything to listen to between the two signals, it is very doubtful that the ears or brain would pick it up anyway. When considering two high quality closely matched cables, would it still show a difference between two cables that could even be heard, I strongly doubt it (but show differences on the graph, yes). It would also at the same time not show which one was better, but only that they were different. This program does a better job of showing how equipment can be lacking or downgrading a signal then which is better or which will sound better excluding of course equipment or cables that can easily be heard as inferior. As an example an interconnect that drastically rolls off the highs starting at 8KHz is going to show badly against a cable that is open to 30KHz because a lot of audio is not going to get subtracted so there will be a larger signal to listen to, but this would have been noticeable to anybody listening to the two cables against each other anyway. So the smaller the graph difference, the more unlikely a listener would be able to hear any difference during normal playback between the different cables or equipment. And the jitter example is approaching the absurd, we are now talking about nano and microseconds that can't be heard anyway unless the DAC is so bad that the manufacture should have never build the product anyway because the jitter spec is so bad that a non-audiophile can hear it and know something is wrong. Again the listener would never be able to hear the difference in normal use so one would be falling back to the graph again which would only prove which unit had less jitter if the scale were expandable so as to take micro-seconds into account. Basically this program is so that one audiophile blowhard can prove to another audiophile blowhard that yes his/her cable or component is better then the others because this graph proves it and if they turn the gain up to maximum the difference can even be heard. It might also be used to justify over paying for a cable or component by making one feel better about spending the money. In the end, there comes a point when one can no longer hear the difference so what does it matter if it shows up better on a graph or costs $5000 more? Cant hear the difference during normal listening (90% of ones listening time) and can barely hear the difference during critical listening (maybe 2%) so why does it matter? I say it doesnt, but thats my opinion. My equipment is not the best or most expensive, but it sounds wonderful to me. Each component, interconnect, and cable was chosen for how it sounded in the system; not by how much it cost or how it sounded at the dealers showroom. The improvements or upgrades over the years were chosen because there choice made an improvement over the previous sound of the system that
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] digital is digital OR NOT
TiredLegs;396321 Wrote: > I find it ridiculous myself, for reasons such as the cumbersome HDCP > handshake, the flimsy physical connector, etc. Yes, yes. Also the DRM nonsense, the fact that you have to pay a royalty to use it, etc. It is DVI plus a big steaming pile of "do not want". -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=50147 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Peter314;396342 Wrote: > Stop teasing and tell us absolutely everything. Right now! :) You'll have to wait until tomorrow... :) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Stop teasing and tell us absolutely everything. Right now! :) -- Peter314 Peter314's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14028 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] digital is digital OR NOT
seanadams;396050 Wrote: > If you're willing to overlook clock noise then the unidirectional, > single conductor that comprises s/pdif is really quite elegant, and > makes it both easy to use and inexpensive to implement. You will never > see word clock connections on mass market equipment because it requires > manufacturers to provide additional connectors, and users to connect > another cable to them. This has not only cost implications but > significant real estate requirements on the crowded back panel of an > a/v receiver. Besides, if you are connecting a standalone DAC and care > about jitter, then you are already miles outside the mass market for > audio gear. > > However, as we move away from media which are designed to be read in > real-time (CDs, DVDs) and towards home networks, internet streaming, > etc you will see the issue disappear on its own, as the clocking > inevitably moves towards the DAC in these schemes anyway. But even > then, consider that A/V receivers in their present form (basically they > are just "input selectors") would have to be completely rethought, > because that functionality has no place in a fully networked scheme. > > There is a lot of legacy behind the design that s/pdif delivers in > real-time. Even CDs were designed more like LPs than hard drive > platters, in that their tracks are laid out in a spiral to allow the > laser to track them continually from start to finish. There is a deeply > ingrained way of thinking about information transfer that it necessarily > occurs at whatever rate it's being consumed (technically the term for > this is "isochronous"), and only with recent, powerful PCs, cheap > packet networking, hard drive storage etc can those assumptions finally > be let go. > > But it will still be the case indefinitely for other technologies such > as broadcast/satellite delivery where you have a unidirectional, > one-to-many transmit path with no possibility of doing flow control. In > the video world the possibility of internet delivery replacing broadcast > has been "just around the corner" for a long time - it will happen (eg > AT&T U-verse, Apple TV, etc) and maybe soon enough we'll just have > ethernet plugs in the backs of our TVs instead of the ridiculous HDMI > interface. > > Anyway the point is, the designers of s/pdif didn't deliberately choose > a "sub optimal" scheme. Maybe they were unaware of the problem of jitter > (I could believe that actually) but just as easily they could have > considered it and made a decision that it was outweighed by the cost > and usability advantages of using a single conductor. We are getting to > the root of why high-end audio is such a special niche. Sean, I can see I've touched upon a topic to which you've already given considerable thought. Although it's off topic for this thread, dare I ask what it is about HDMI you find ridiculous? I find it ridiculous myself, for reasons such as the cumbersome HDCP handshake, the flimsy physical connector, etc. But I suspect your reasons may be more related to data transfer, about which I know nada. By the way, at the CES show this year, I saw a few TVs that had Ethernet ports, although it was unclear what kind of content they would handle by that path. And there are some AV receivers and preamp/processors already on the market (such as the Marantz AV8003 and several Denon units) that have Ethernet connectivity for handling networked music from a DLNA server. I looked pretty seriously at buying one of those receivers, but their networked music capabilities were limited, with clunky user interface, minimal audio format support, and the like. The makers of those devices clearly tacked on networked audio as an afterthought, rather than a fully flushed out implementation. So, it's still a Squeezebox for me in the home theater. ;-) It might be nice, though, to be able to use that big screen TV as a display for the Squeezebox. Then, of course, you'd need to deliver both audio and video to the AV receiver, in which case, it would probably use (eek!) HDMI. -- TiredLegs TiredLegs's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6201 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=50147 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Inguz dsp plugin - what are the results?
Excellent results here overall - I've been using it for a couple years. Inguz has saved me a ton of cash in avoiding equipment upgrades with significant diminishing returns. I have to keep my speakers mounted in bookcases for protection from my daughter and large dog, and Inguz allows be to make the best of the less than ideal placement. I should also say I have gotten away with using Inguz on a relatively low powered PC (1.1 Athlon 768MB RAM or so) streaming lossless to 2 SB3s simultaneously with no stuttering whatsoever. I currently run Inguz on an Intel iMac w 2MB RAM - and rarely quit the 4-5 other apps I regularly use with no apparent lags whatsoever. The few frustrating experiences I've had have come with upgrades, as the installs on the Mac have to be done manually using the console, and part of the setup breaks with each change. It's tedious - but really doesn't take more than a few minutes - I shouldn't complain. It would be really cool if the silverlight web interface in squeezecenter was more useful - but that hasn't ever really worked for me. Could be a Mac thing. Bottom line is I can't think of a more cost effective way to improve a system. -- esbrewer Server: 2.4GHz Core 2 Duo iMac running MacOS 10.5.6 and SC 7.3 Plugins: Inguz DRC, Sirius Radio, Album Review, SqueezeScrobbler Sources: SB3 (2), SB Boom, NAD C542, NAD T515 Amplification: NAD C720BEE Loudspeakers: Paradigm Studio 20 (v.1) Headphones: Grado SR60, Etymotic ER4P http://www.last.fm/user/esbrewer esbrewer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60057 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
darrenyeats;396308 Wrote: > Ha-ha! > > When it comes to MP3 I would like to know about VBR vs CBR. IME VBR is > better, I would rather have VBR 'Max quality' (~256) than CBR320...and > the fact it's more compact seals the deal. > > Of course, measuring a difference isn't conclusive (there may be still > no audible difference) whereas measuring no difference is conclusive. > Darren What's interesting is how much you have to boost the difference to hear anything... Darren, You are right that a measured difference may still be inaudible. It depends how loud it is compared to the noise floor and other masking phenomena. The software lets you test this really easily. So far, MP3 (via LAME) is pretty obviously different. As for expensive spdif coax... Also, downsampling hirez seems pretty worthwhile & effective... :) I'm getting a correlation depth of -80dB on most tests. That's pretty low in the mix! By the way, stock PSU's sound pretty good... and I can reccomend turning off the SB3 display if using its analogue outs, but for digital out it makes no difference... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Phil Leigh;396299 Wrote: > This is proving to be fun - it's getting addictive. Anyone want to buy > some expensive SPDIF coax cables? :) LOL. This is going to be very interesting. I will hold my purchase order for a linear PSU until I have seen your test results... Regards, Marcel. -- MarcelO FLAC > Squeezebox 3 > Coaxial Belden 1694A > Sigtone Shek d2 > Blue Jeans LC-1 > Mission Cyrus One > Bi-wired Canare 4S11 > Linn Tukan + REL Q200E MarcelO's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Phil Leigh;396299 Wrote: > Yes - sorry I should have been clearer!... > > This is proving to be fun - it's getting addictive. Anyone want to buy > some expensive SPDIF coax cables? :) Ha-ha! When it comes to MP3 I would like to know about VBR vs CBR. IME VBR is better, I would rather have VBR 'Max quality' (~256) than CBR320...and the fact it's more compact seals the deal. Of course, measuring a difference isn't conclusive (there may be still no audible difference) whereas measuring no difference is conclusive. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. http://www.last.fm/listen/user/darrenyeats SB3 + Inguz -> Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) -> PMC AB-1 Dell laptop / Rio Karma -> JVC UX-C30 mini system / Sennheiser PX-100 darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Playing back multichannel (5.1) 96/24 WAV files
michael123;396300 Wrote: > WAV, it plays file on my PC with both VLC and Windows media player. > The LCD of squeezebox3 just goes off. Powering it up with remotes does > not help, although the LCD lids up, it does not play any file. > > > > I have the latest nightly build (from yesterday) of 7.4, for few 192/24 > files I tried I could not hear the sound. Again, on PC I can playback > them nicely. There is no standard for WAV at those rates - a non-standard header is employed by whatever created it. Convert it to FLAC. It should play fine. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=59951 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Playing back multichannel (5.1) 96/24 WAV files
Phil Leigh;396290 Wrote: > The file that doesn't work - is it FLAC? WAV, it plays file on my PC with both VLC and Windows media player. The LCD of squeezebox3 just goes off. Powering it up with remotes does not help, although the LCD lids up, it does not play any file. Phil Leigh;396290 Wrote: > 192/24 should play fine in 7.4 (albeit downsampled) - try it and see... I have the latest nightly build (from yesterday) of 7.4, for few 192/24 files I tried I could not hear the sound. Again, on PC I can playback them nicely. -- michael123 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=59951 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Quad;396296 Wrote: > Oh, now I see. You were not talking about WAV vs. FLAC. It was > _streaming_ WAV vs. FLAC. Everything after the magic, got it... Yes - sorry I should have been clearer!... This is proving to be fun - it's getting addictive. Anyone want to buy some expensive SPDIF coax cables? :) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Oh, now I see. You were not talking about WAV vs. FLAC. It was _streaming_ WAV vs. FLAC. Everything after the magic, got it... -- Quad Quad's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
... oh and comparing a 96/24 and 44.1/16 version of the same file is very ... interesting -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Quad;396261 Wrote: > When I first came across lossless formats a couple of years ago, I made > the following test (not my idea, seen this somewhere): > > - Ripping a CD track to WAV with EAC > - Converting the track to APE > - Invert the phases of the original WAV (using Samplitude) > - Play both tracks at the same time (using Samplitude) > > Result: complete absolute silence even at maximum volume > > I've never done this test with FLAC. But since then I have no doubts > that lossless actually is lossless... That's what I would expect - you are operating purely in the digital domain and cancellation of two identical phase-inverted numeric files is pretty much guaranteed to be perfect. These tests are in the analogue domain and so will reveal what is happening AFTER the DAC - the place where the magic happens. Any changes caused by jitter, drifting clocks, random electrons etc will be audible. So far this is proving fascinating. For example, the difference between a FLAC and 190/256/320 MP3 is pretty startling. The difference between streaming FLAC vs PCM seems to be... none. The effect of muting the analogue circuits of the SB3 on the digital output seems to be...none. However, it's early days and I want to make sure my test results are repeatable. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Phil Leigh;396062 Wrote: > Audiodiffmaker > First off: streaming WAV vs. FLAC... guess what? - absolutely no > difference on the analogue audio outs of an SB3. Don't believe me - try > it for yourself. > When I first came across lossless formats a couple of years ago, I made the following test (not my idea, seen this somewhere): - Ripping a CD track to WAV with EAC - Converting the track to APE - Invert the phases of the original WAV (using Samplitude) - Play both tracks at the same time (using Samplitude) Result: complete absolute silence even at maximum volume I've never done this test with FLAC. But since then I have no doubts that lossless actually is lossless... -- Quad Quad's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Kind of Volume Controll changes Sound Quality?
I have a Naim Supernait and my SB is connected via Koax Digital to it, using the integrated DAC of the SN. -- themrock themrock's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20824 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60065 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hifi Wigwam show in the UK
Might as well do some promotion here, if that's OK... There is a UK hifi show taking place in Melton Mowbray on Sunday March 1st. A group of us from the forum are demonstrating our systems, just for fun really. Link: http://www.hifiwigwam.com/show I will be there with my Slim-based system, being an SB+ coupled with a dCS Purcell and Elgar, through an Audion pre-amp, 300B SET monoblocks and, sadly, the Lowthers are immovable, so I'll be using my Living Voice OBX-R2s Of interest to some here might be my Custom Browse system, which uses custom tags and a dynamic tag-browsing system specifically for classical music. A few people elsewhere have expressed an interest in seeing how it works, and I'll be happy to demo it. Sean, if you fancy sending me a Transporter I'd be happy to take that along too :) -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others SB+, dCS Purcell & Elgar, Audion Pre, Welborne DRD 300B SETs, Lowther Big Fun Horns with PM6As adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60067 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Kind of Volume Controll changes Sound Quality?
themrock;396238 Wrote: > Is there a difference in sound quality, how i handle the volumne > control. > a)Set the SqueezeboxDuett Controller fixed at 100 % and use my > Amp-Controller for adjusting or > b) what i would prefer, because i dont need 2 controllers anymore.I > fix the volume of my Amp-Controller and adjust the volume with my SC. > Thankls For me the point of the SB3 volume control is you can remove an active pre from the signal path, otherwise you're not really getting the best out of this configuration. If you have a separate pre/power amp or can bypass the pre somehow, then try it either way and see what you prefer. I don't have any fixed views on what should sound better, it depends on many factors IMO. If you can't hear a difference then the SB3 volume control is a bit more convenient - everything on one remote. If you use an integrated amp and can't bypass the pre I recommend just using the amp volume control. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. http://www.last.fm/listen/user/darrenyeats SB3 + Inguz -> Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) -> PMC AB-1 Dell laptop / Rio Karma -> JVC UX-C30 mini system / Sennheiser PX-100 darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60065 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
I'll be posting results as soon as I can. I have some stuff to do first... I need to make up a proper cable for SB testing. First off I'm going to concentrate purely on the analogue output of the SB and what SC AUDIO and streaming settings affect it (or not). Then I'll move on to external DAC testing. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber & Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Inguz dsp plugin - what are the results?
Moonbase, you really need to check out brutefirdrc at http://klaasprause.com/brutefirdrc/. A linux plugin which uses the brutally fast brutefir convolution engine. The other disadvantage that hasnt been mentioned yet is set-up time. Count on spending several evenings practising the measurement process, reviewing filter graphs, and listening, before you can finally sit back and enjoy the music. Andy, Even after buying the measurement kit this will be the best value upgrade you ever made. -- htrd Toby Dickenson Search eBay for music matching your last.fm profile; www.exitahead.co.uk htrd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3710 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60057 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Kind of Volume Controll changes Sound Quality?
Is there a difference in sound quality, how i handle the volumne control. a)Set the SqueezeboxDuett Controller fixed at 100 % and use my Amp-Controller for adjusting or b) what i would prefer, because i dont need 2 controllers anymore.I fix the volume of my Amp-Controller and adjust the volume with my SC. Thankls -- themrock themrock's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20824 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60065 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Inguz dsp plugin - what are the results?
I am running Inguz on Linux with no problem, although I am still on SC7.2 and don't use Jive. If you're doing just EQ you can use warble test tones and a Radio Shack sound meter (for which calibrations are available on the net by catalogue number - PM me). Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. http://www.last.fm/listen/user/darrenyeats SB3 + Inguz -> Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) -> PMC AB-1 Dell laptop / Rio Karma -> JVC UX-C30 mini system / Sennheiser PX-100 darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60057 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
