Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
krochat;399672 Wrote: > Ok, I'm getting wierded out now. If the transport is the same for both > DACs and the clock signal is extracted from S/PDIF, then how can the > DACs be producing output at different rates? > > Curiously, > Kim well... in the tests that Radish and I have done the transport has been different as well as the DAC. I should have made that clear. I'll do a test tonight of two DACS with the same transport. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
Mr_Sukebe;399586 Wrote: > I've got to ask, how many "high-end" digital sources have you listened > to? More than I can count. > The ones that I've heard over the years generally sounded quite > different in their presentations, which would seem to contradict your > statement a little. Not at all. Wombat;399609 Wrote: > Well, if i read that right opaqueice more or less says that all serious > sources present the perceived bass equal cause the frequency response > is equal. > So all this different sounding is just a mass-hysteria lasting more > than 20 years! Since then most serious devices already had a real flat > frequency response. > Hi-Fi can be so easy! It's not mass hysteria - it's just humanity. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Phil Leigh;399671 Wrote: > I think this is correct. The software reports large sample rate > differences between any 2 dacs I've tried so far. Normally, using a > consistent dac across tests returns very small differences in sample > rate which the software seems to handle. Ok, I'm getting wierded out now. If the transport is the same for both DACs and the clock signal is extracted from S/PDIF, then how can the DACs be producing output at different rates? Curiously, Kim -- krochat -- Acourate -> Inguz DSP -> SB3 -> GW Labs DSP (96kHz upsampler) -> Apogee Big Ben -> TacT RCS 2.2X -> 2x TacT S2150 -> Vandersteen 3a Signature + TacT W210 krochat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6579 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
opaqueice;399410 Wrote: > Yeah - the obvious guess is that the software isn't able to fully > compensate for the (potentially relatively large) differences in > average clock rate between two different DACs. > > If so, positive results for DAC comparisons won't mean much, > unfortunately. I think this is correct. The software reports large sample rate differences between any 2 dacs I've tried so far. Normally, using a consistent dac across tests returns very small differences in sample rate which the software seems to handle. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
Well, if i read that right opaqueice more or less says that all serious sources present the perceived bass equal cause the frequency response is equal. So all this different sounding is just a mass-hysteria lasting more than 20 years! Since then most serious devices already had a real flat frequency response. Hi-Fi can be so easy! -- Wombat Transporter -> Avantgarde based monoblocks -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter as DAC: Vu-meter & external input
No, the VU meters are generated by SqueezeCenter, so the music must be played in SC in order to get VU meters. -- Mark Lanctot Current: SB2, Transporter, Boom (PQP3 - late beta), SBC (early beta) Stored: Boom (PQP1 - early beta) Sold: SB3, Duet Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60513 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
opaqueice;399548 Wrote: > Because any high-end digital source will have a flat frequency response > down to below the threshold of audibility, while on the other hand your > brain (and speakers and room) has an enormous effect on your perception > of the amount of bass. Unless one of them is broken, claiming the > Transporter has "less bass" than the Majik after listening to it is as > silly as feeling the air in London and declaring that the weather at > that moment must be nicer in New York than it is in Instanbul. I've got to ask, how many "high-end" digital sources have you listened to? The ones that I've heard over the years generally sounded quite different in their presentations, which would seem to contradict your statement a little. -- Mr_Sukebe SB+, Bel Canto Evo2i, Impulse Ta'us, Coherent system cables, Stillpoints Mr_Sukebe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10609 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter balanced outputs
Andy8421;399481 Wrote: > Ligald, > > I have driven my Krell poweramp direct from a TP via balanced > connections. To be honest, it sounded the best I have ever heard the > TP or my system sound. Ditching the pre-amp between the TP and > poweramp eliminates additional distortion and noise, no matter how good > the preamp. I only went back to the preamp as I needed its switching > capability. > > Using the TP volume control does work with balanced, but at low level, > the maths behind the volume control will introduce noise. Strictly speaking, it does not "introduce noise." However, since the noise floor is constant, reducing the signal will reduce the signal to noise ratio. -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60495 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter balanced outputs
The TP balanced outputs have built in adjustable attenuators. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60495 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
JezA;399489 Wrote: > Yes, Why is it at all absurd? Because any high-end digital source will have a flat frequency response down to below the threshold of audibility, while on the other hand your brain (and speakers and room) has an enormous effect on your perception of the amount of bass. Unless one of them is broken, claiming the Transporter has "less bass" than the Majik after listening to it is as silly as feeling the air in London and declaring that the weather at that moment must be nicer in New York than it is in Instanbul. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter as DAC: Vu-meter & external input
I use regurlaly my transporter as a DAC with a Pioneer PDS-06 used as drive. I would like to display the vu-meter when external source is played (Toslink or others) is selected : is there a way to do that ? -- x-transporter - transpoter - SqueezeCenter - winXP 64bits x-transporter's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16076 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60513 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
Any decent digital source will have incredible bass extension, flat response and low distortion in comparison to even the most sophisticated loudspeakers. I don't know of any loudspeakers that are anywhere near flat down to 5Hz - and if they exist certainly they will add major problems with group delay, limited output or domestic practicality. It's true that the frequency response of sources can differ in the bass (see SB3 vs Transporter, for example) but this is irrelevant taking into account room effects combined with speaker positioning and, if used, digital FR correction. So the only issue is distortion (group delay, definition and so on) where loudspeaker technology and domestic room sizes are far, far more likely to limit the results than the characteristics of a decent digital source! IME bass reproduction is a very tricky area and a non-flat frequency response or distortion can easily be perceived as "better" even by bass afficionados (and I don't even claim to be one of those)! A lot of the differences that are attributed to sources just plain disappear when careful level matching is carried out. There is always a tendency to pump up the volume to "reveal" the more solid bass of a favoured source. Of course that invalidates the comparison right there. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. http://www.last.fm/listen/user/darrenyeats SB3 + Inguz -> Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) -> PMC AB-1 Dell laptop / Rio Karma -> JVC UX-C30 mini system / Sennheiser PX-100 darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Tube amp for SB3 + Klipsch RB-61
It's hard to get a good tube amp for $500 new - you would probably be looking at buying direct from China or HK at that price, which is risky (but can work well). I would recommend buying used, in general. For those speakers, which are very sensitive and should be an easy load, you can choose pretty much anything power-wise: even my 8WPC amps would be fine with them. Push-pull EL84 valves should produce about a dozen watts, which would seem a good place to start. -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others SB+, dCS Purcell & Elgar, Audion Pre, Welborne DRD 300B SETs, Lowther Big Fun Horns with PM6As adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60309 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter balanced outputs
Thank you, I'm convinced that the shortest the audio path is, the better it is. The TP providing high level outputs, I really could not see any interest of adding pre-amp -except for its switching capabilities - which role initially consists of amplifying low level inputs to match the amp input. However, you have to deal with the sensitivity matching... How did you managed the sensitivity matching between TP and the amp input? You probably added attenuators with fixed or variable "gain". Do you have any brand/model to recommend? Or do you know if there exist balanced cables with integrated attenuators? -- ligald Transporter (wired) PC with XP Pro SP3 1GB RAM ligald's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12437 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60495 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
opaqueice;398750 Wrote: > The idea that the Linn could have "more bass" than the Transporter is > absurd. > > Try a blind test. Yes, Why is it at all absurd? -- JezA JezA's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21219 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter balanced outputs
Ligald, I have driven my Krell poweramp direct from a TP via balanced connections. To be honest, it sounded the best I have ever heard the TP or my system sound. Ditching the pre-amp between the TP and poweramp eliminates additional distortion and noise, no matter how good the preamp. I only went back to the preamp as I needed its switching capability. Using the TP volume control does work with balanced, but at low level, the maths behind the volume control will introduce noise. -- Andy8421 Andy8421's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16846 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60495 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The best power-amplifier for Logitech's Transporter?
Hi, Regarding the amp sensitivity, you recommends a sensitivity lower than 1.5V. Why lower is better? I understand that you want avoiding a sensitivity higher than the TP one in order to benefit from the full power of your amp. However, for smaller sensitivity, you will have to insert attenuator to avoid matching problems. The best case would not be to have a amp input sensitivity that matches the TP output one (~3 Vrms for balanced output) ? Thanks -- ligald Transporter (wired) PC with XP Pro SP3 1GB RAM ligald's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12437 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=56628 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter balanced outputs
ligald;399442 Wrote: > However is it possible to control the balanced output level with the > digital control of the TP or is the level fixed to 3Vrms? The TP's digital volume control does affect the balanced outputs. So yes, it is quite feasible to connect it directly to a balanced power amp, subject to the usual proviso that you use passive attenuation (if required) for proper gain staging. ligald;399442 Wrote: > Anyone having a power amp driven directly by the TP? What would be your > advice. My TP is connected directly to the balanced inputs of active speakers (via 13dB attenuators). It works beautifully in this configuration. -- cliveb Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60495 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter balanced outputs
Hello, I'm very interested in purchasing a new power amplifier and I'm considering the Parasound A21. I'm wondering about the best matching between this amp (which has both balanced and unbalanced inputs) and the Transporter. In order to get the shortest audio path, the ultimate solution would theoretically be to drive the amp directly form the TP(skipping the pre-amp) with the balanced connectors, by eventually adding an attenuator. However is it possible to control the balanced output level with the digital control of the TP or is the level fixed to 3Vrms? Anyone having a power amp driven directly by the TP? What would be your advice. Thanks. Ligald -- ligald Transporter (wired) PC with XP Pro SP3 1GB RAM ligald's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12437 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60495 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Will a transporter sound as good as the Linn Majik DS
opaqueice;398750 Wrote: > The idea that the Linn could have "more bass" than the Transporter is > absurd. > > Why? [padding ...] -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60169 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Phil Leigh;399271 Wrote: > Did you check the "compensate for sample rate drift" box on advanced > settings and also check the depth evaluation freq range to be > 20-20kHz? > I did have the sample rate drift checked, but I hadn't altered the freq range as you mention. Doing so gave me a couple more dB but I'm still at -86dB for comparing two different recordings of the exact same thing. To be honest I'm more interested in the really significant differences (like I found with SB3 vs SBR) so it's not really a big deal for me. -- radish radish's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=77 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Yeah - the obvious guess is that the software isn't able to fully compensate for the (potentially relatively large) differences in average clock rate between two different DACs. If so, positive results for DAC comparisons won't mean much, unfortunately. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attention Audio Mythbusters!
Comparing DAC's is a world of pain. All I can say right now is that - as Radish reports - there are BIG differences... I'm starting to develop a theory about the software that I can't test. Is anyone out there running an SB or TP slaved to an external DAC clock? If so could they do a test with/without the clock link to compare if the audio is any different? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=60041 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
