Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter suddenly dead and not responding to anything
That is too bad. I wish I could be of further help. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70283 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter wish list...
Keymaster;479327 Wrote: > I would have liked them to release it in a higher def. format. I think > that I read somewhere that the work was actually done in the 24/96 > domain. That would have been sweet. Hi Keymaster, I read a rumour that they may release high rez files possibly 24/96 only for download sometime in the future. I think they are still working out a deal for mp3 downloads. High rez would be awesome. I've heard mixed reviews by beatlemaniacs regarding the remasters. Many think that the stereo mixes are too compressed. They are definitely louder than the mono remasters. Some think that the original 1987 CDs are still the better versions in stereo. Like you, I enjoy the 2009 remasters also. Paul's bass guitar is more prominent in the mix, changing the balance of the whole mix, even though it wasn't remixed. I will have to check out the horns you mention on Good Morning, Good Morning on the main system. Damn it's too late now... mp3 player will have to do right now. The main system will have to wait til tomorrow. :) TV -- tv69 tv69's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32022 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69447 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter wish list...
tv69 wrote: > Ah, but there is a right or wrong and they are detectable. Like the > microphone/kick drum example above, you want your woofer cone to move > outwards into the room when that kick drum is hit. No, I do not believe anyone can tell. Its an audiophile myth. I am willing to let you present evidence that it makes a difference that a human, not an oscilloscope, can tell without looking. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter wish list...
Phil Leigh;479218 Wrote:
> In this discussion phase and polarity are interchangeable concepts.
Yes the words polarity and phase do get interchanged, but they are not
the same thing.
Phil Leigh;479218 Wrote:
> Absolute Pitch is easily measurable - it is a frequency. What frequency
> we currently choose to assign to the concept of "middle C" is
> irrelevant.
Any note/pitch has a specific measurable value. I am in full agreement
with you here. The names may have changed over time but the frequency
values are absolute.
Those who have perfect pitch can hear the character of each note
allowing them to identify it. Transposing a song to a different key
thus changes the entire character of a song.
Phil Leigh;479218 Wrote:
> I'm not talking about "stereo" mixes with obvious phase errors (or even
> deliberate phase mangling a la "electronically rechannelled mono" or
> whatever).
When we are talking about a polarity switch, we are talking about
inverting both the left and right channel waveforms. If a microphone
records the sound of a kick drum, to replicating that sound on your
stereo, the cone of the woofer should first move outwards. Flipping
polarity for the same recorded kick drum would cause the woofer to move
inwards first, thus altering how it moves the air and altering the sound
transmitted to your ears.
Phil Leigh;479218 Wrote:
> Yes of course if you are listening to a stereo mix where one or more
> instruments (often an electric guitar) have been panned into stereo with
> deliberate or accidental l/r phase "errors" then it is possible that
> inverting the phase may shift the apparent position of that instrument
> in the stereo soundfield. There are FX boxes that do exactly that...
With phase problems, inverting polarity will often shift the instrument
in the stereo sound field that has deliberate or accidental phase
problems. This can easily be experienced by flipping the left speaker
+/- connections in a stereo pair to be out of phase. It will shift the
stereo field of the entire recording. Flip the +/- on the right speaker
of a stereo pair out of phase and it will shift the stereo field or
image in a different way.
Phil Leigh;479218 Wrote:
> I don't believe I have any music where the entire l/r channels are out
> of phase..
Old Nat King Cole records apparently by error have the left and right
channels out of phase. The only way to fix it is to flip the speaker
connections on only one speaker, provided your speakers are wired
correctly in the first place ('+' from amp to '+' on speaker and '-' on
amp to '-' on speaker for both left and right channels would mean your
left and right speakers are wired in phase for example).
Phil Leigh;479218 Wrote:
> My point is not that such thing are undetectable (they are in certain
> circumstances) but rather that there is no right or wrong here.
Ah, but there is a right or wrong and they are detectable. Like the
microphone/kick drum example above, you want your woofer cone to move
outwards into the room when that kick drum is hit.
Phil Leigh;479218 Wrote:
> Furthermore, they are only detectable in highly controlled
> circumstances that are rarely replicable in domestic listening
> environments.
Not sure if you are talking about polarity here, but like the kick drum
example, differences can be heard that are subtle and sometimes not so
subtle. Not sure what you mean by highly controlled circumstances.
Phil Leigh;479218 Wrote:
> I'll have another listen to the stereo Revolver (although tbh the mono
> version is "the one")
Yup the mono for Revolver is the better mix.
TV
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter wish list...
sebp;479221 Wrote: > Did you know there are lots of bass players today who tune their > instrument at A=442 Hz? ;) Piano players do the same. ;) If I recall the reason is that tuning a tad sharp gives the piano a "sweeter" sound. Tuning a tad flat will give it a darker sound, relative to 440Hz of course. TV -- tv69 tv69's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32022 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69447 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Phase?
pfarrell;478515 Wrote: > kphinney wrote: > > Okay, so in this case 'out of phase' is the same as 'polarity > reversed'. > > The common case of a speaker wire being reverses is out of phase > relative to the other speaker. > > I don't know what the official definition of "polarity reversed" is, > but > if you reversed both speakers, they would be in phase but not in > purist > audiophile "true phase" > > I don't believe that audiophile "true phase" is meaningful, as right > after the kick drum head comes towards you, it goes away from you. > > > -- > Pat Farrell > http://www.pfarrell.com/ On a personal trial a moment ago I reversed the wiring on one of my speakers. (Two channel system, tubes driving single Fostex full range.) An Unbelievable Difference. At first I thought I found musical nirvana, but about 10 seconds into listening, it was quickly replaced with nauseating oddities. Really, it was that quick and noticeable. A once beautiful 'Just Roll Tape' track at first sounded like my two speakers turned into many, then I realized that Stills was not in the center of the stage, but floating back and forth and his lone guitar was both in my head and somewhere in a different room. Thanks to lessons from Dad, I've always been careful to hook up the speaker polarity correctly, sometimes tracing a side-by-side strand of wire from amp to speaker if it wasn't labeled legibly. Now I'm certain I could tell if one speaker was inverted in a two channel set up. I played with only two other tracks (a Pink Floyd and a Yo-Yo Ma); both were interesting, but not what stereo music should sound like. Perhaps this is what some manufacturers of bookshelf systems do to induce "concert hall" mode? The music was everywhere, but not locked down and sensible. 5% Hmmm, 95% Ouch. -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70323 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter wish list...
Anyone notice that somehow this TP Wish List because a parallel to the Phase post I started a few days back? Weird. Can we keep this TP features and move the phase to the other post? -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69447 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter wish list...
tv69;478996 Wrote: > I've worked in a studio also and we had XLR cables as well as balanced > TRS cables where the pin 2/3 terminations were flipped from one end of > the termination to the other. Thankfully they all had a unique bright > orange jacket! > See, THAT will get you into trouble...hehehe :) I keep a few of those around as well; rarely used, tho. If I play with phase, it's generally in the mix (unless absolutely necessary, as is the case in some situations, of course) -- Keymaster Keymaster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30281 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69447 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter and Tact RCS 2.2X
Phil Leigh;476008 Wrote: > Ah, that will be a shame... never mind, it is "the icing on the cake" Hi again! Just got my Transporter today, and I must say it sounds awsome right of the box with option 2(balanced digital out to Tact). I don't know if the Transporter have any "burn in" time, but it sounds great already. But it could be funny to do the experiment(option 1) one day. My first problem is that I have only one balanced digital cable.. :(. But I can understand that Sean doesn't agree in the experiment.. But I have some questions if I shall try it. 1: Where can you force squeezebox server to 24/96??? 2: Is it not possible to let the Tact do the upsampling before sending to Transporter?? I mean through the dout-fs menu on The Tact Sorry for silly questions but I am still "Newbie" in this area. But there is nothing dangerous in doing it. The worst that can happend is no sound or worse sound. Maybe better sound... :) -- callesoroe Callesoroe SB-duet, Tact RCS 2.2X digital preamp, Martin Logan Vista speakers, Acoustic Reality Ear Enigma AMPs(2 pieces BIAMP) callesoroe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22693 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70166 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter wish list...
sebp;479221 Wrote: > Did you know there are lots of bass players today who tune their > instrument at A=442 Hz? ;) You're not going to follow that up with "drummers are musicians too", are ya? :b In all seriousness, what's the reasoning behind the 2 cycle increase? Chorus-like thickening without the modulation? -- Keymaster Keymaster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30281 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69447 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter suddenly dead and not responding to anything
Poorly no chance to open the transporter. It was a replacement unit, because i had some issues with the transnav at my first unit. Two of the eight screws are so tight that i cannot loosen them without damaging. After hearing nothing from support after 4 days i connected them via phone. Seems as if they have not done anything with my e-mail. They do not feel responsible and told me to return the transporter to the dealer where i bought it. Called the dealer and he said its no problem, he will return it to logitech. So far very bad support for a 2.000 € device. Seeing the problems with the new sc server and everything i am for the first time thinking if squeezebox was the right decision (i have 1 boom, 2 classic and 1 transporter at all)! I am very unpleased thinking it could take a long time from dealer to logitech and back to me. For this time i reinstalled 1 of the classics in my stereo setup, but after the transporter that is no fun anymore. Perhaps i will buy an external DAC for the transporterless period... Regards from your very disappointed Aurumer P.S.: Sorry for my english, i am not a native speaker... -- Aurumer Aurumer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31601 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70283 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter wish list...
tv69;478992 Wrote: > Also where perfect or absolute pitch is concerned, today's music is > based around scales where the note A above middle C is measured to have > 440 cycles or 440Hz. Did you know there are lots of bass players today who tune their instrument at A=442 Hz? ;) -- sebp System : Mac Mini for ripping to FLAC (XLD) > Squeezebox Server 7.4 running on a ReadyNAS NV+ Living room : Transporter > NuForce IA-7 v2 > KEF iQ9 Bedroom : Squeezebox 3 > Beresford DAC > NAD C315BEE > KEF iQ3 Kitchen : SB Receiver > Trends Audio TA10.1 > Celestion F10 Bathroom : SB Boom 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/sebp) sebp's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11768 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69447 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter wish list...
tv69;478992 Wrote: > The words polarity and phase often get interchanged but often are > defined to be different things. Just to be clear, the discussion > revolves around polarity switching which is equivalent to swapping the > +/- connections at the speaker terminals on both left and right > channels. > > The effects of switching polarity are often not apparent. It is > dependent on the recording method and also on the material. When multi > track recordings do not maintain absolute polarity (zero polarity) on > all individual tracks, the effect of switching polarity will cause in > some circumstances an improvement in one area and while causing harm in > others. > > For example, if vocals are recorded in reverse polarity while drums are > recorded at zero polarity, a flip of the polarity switch can possibly > cause the vocals to sound better while the drums will sound worse. > Nothing can be done to improve both vocals and drums in this case. The > mastering engineer often has to decide from which perspective to master > in such a case. > > There are also some cases where the phase between left and right > channels is not correct on some older recordings. This happens when the > polarity on the left channel for example is at zero while the right > channel is at 180 degrees. You can try this out by flipping the +/- > connections only on one of your speakers. Listen to what happens to the > stereo image when this is done. > > TV > > Also where perfect or absolute pitch is concerned, today's music is > based around scales where the note A above middle C is measured to have > 440 cycles or 440Hz. This has not always been the case as outlined > here: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitch_%28music%29#History_of_pitch_standards_in_Western_music > > It makes me wonder what frequencies were used for A above middle C by > the great classical composers and how they intended their music to be > heard? In this discussion phase and polarity are interchangable concepts. Absolute Pitch is easily measurable - it is a frequency. What frequency we currently choose to assign to the concept of "middle C" is irrelevant. I'm not talking about "stereo" mixes with obvious phase errors (or even deliberate phase mangling a la "electronically rechannelled mono" or whatever). Yes of course if you are listening to a stereo mix where one or more instruments (often an electric guitar) have been panned into stereo with deliberate or accidental l/r phase "errors" then it is possible that inverting the phase may shift the apparent position of that instrument in the stereo soundfield. There are FX boxes that do exactly that... I don't believe I have any music where the entire l/r channels are out of phase.. My point is not that such thing are undetectable (they are in certain circumstances) but rather that there is no right or wrong here. Furthermore, they are only detectable in highly controlled circumstances that are rarely replicable in domestic listening environments. Slightly off-topic, but for fairly obvious related reasons one would never use a stereo stylus to replay mono records...but 99.9% of vinyl addicts do. I'll have another listen to the stereo Revolver (although tbh the mono version is "the one") -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69447 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter wish list...
krochat;478824 Wrote: > Phil, > > The definitive paper on this is > "Lipshitz, S. P., Pocock, M., and Vanderkooy, J., "On the Audibility of > Midrange Phase Distortion in Audio Systems," J. Audio Eng. Soc., vol. > 30, > pp. 580-595 (1982 Sep.)." > > I'm unable to find an online copy. They determined that absolute phase > was detectible at statistically significant levels under some > circumstances. > > You are correct that when multimiking or using phase-incoherent > speakers, there's not really any point. But when a single stereo > microphone pair is used with a phase coherent speaker (the researchers > used Quad 63's AFAIK) or headphones, changes in absolute phase can be > heard with some material. > > For Sine-wave like instruments (flute?), there's no difference. > Trumpets produce a highly asymmetric sound wave (see > http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/asymmetry/asym.html ) where changes in > absolute phase usually be detected at statistically significant levels. > > Try changing absolute phase with a Telarc recording of the Empire Brass > Quintet - my favorite is "Braggin' in Brass" ( see > http://www.empirebrass.com/cd-order.html ). Yes, I know Telarc uses 3 > microphones, but I still hear a difference when I switch polarity. > > Regards, > Kim Kim, I'm familiar with this paper. It has issues (for me), one of which is that whilst they used speakers that are ostensibly dipole in nature they didn't repeat the test with the speakers physically turned through 180 degrees. This leaves open the possibility that there is an asymmetric component in the speaker reproduction that either emphasises or even creates the phase detection... Anyway, I will try and source that Telarc recoding you mention - thanks. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=69447 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
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Thank you for info! Just downloaded it. :) -- Bytec Bytec's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17676 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70589 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
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I'm not sure how I came to be on their emailing list - I traded in my B&W's years ago. But it appears they have a "Society of Sound" section which allow you to download tracks and full sets of music on the free. http://www.bowers-wilkins.co.uk/display.aspx?infid=3550&terid=4210 -- kphinney -I like it, you may not. I understand and respect that.- kphinney's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10409 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70589 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
