Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interesting post.
Mnyb;573911 Wrote: > Oh yeah those strange network at the cable ends , that would make them > different ;) actually a wire should be just a wire ? > > Speaker wire can have an measurable impact if the speakers have very > low impedance or are very reactive, bot not a couple of dB ? that > suggest that almost half of the voltage is dropped over the cable in > certain frequencies ? that must be something wrong with that design of > one of the tested wires, a short thick cable with low inductance that's > a good speaker cable. > > Do you have old infinity speakers or appogee scintilla's . > > You can also have problems with amp's with high output impedance (tube > amp's with output transformer's ) they change frequency response > depending on the load impedance > > Long runs of very thin speaker wire can be measured for shure in some > cases. > with some speaker, but thats speaker wires and the remedy still cost > only a couple of dollars. > > Signal cables not so and I think most of the discussion in that link > was about signal cables . > > But maybe in "audiophile engineering" you can find design that reacts > in strange ways to signal cables :-/ The danish brand Holfi actually > had a CD player that outputted much more distorsion in to a normal > 10kOhm preamp input than to thier own preamps with 800 Ohm input's ? Yes, network box. MIT say this is going to correct phase response. I measured Group Delay as well, and indeed it was smaller (I have MIT shotgun, one of the least expensive models) comparing to XLO I have Verity Audio Parsifal Ovation, these are full range speakers and quite resolving. Both Chesky and Classic Records, two of the high-res music publishers, use these in their studios. In general, at least my experience says that the cables do not do big difference, but they do. Not all of them, not in every system, not with every type of music. There is a nice paper by Nelson Pass http://www.passlabs.com/pdfs/articles/spkrcabl.pdf Worth reading, there are measurements and listening tests -- michael123 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81616 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linear PSU for Squeezebox Touch
Caad;573875 Wrote: > > Several types of linear outboard PSU has been recommended in several > forums. And also in this Forum.! > I have though respect for you guys in here. When you say that there is > no different in soundstage when using different outboard PSU. > I believe that your experience with the SBT and an other PSU then the > supplied already has been tested? > What types of PSU has you tested? One of the tests, that showed no measurable difference, used a battery rather than a PSU. It is hard to imagine a cleaner PSU than a battery... If you don't get a measurable difference with a battery as the PSU, then you aren't going to get a measurable difference with any fancy PSU. -- andynormancx Yes, it will. Yes, all of them. Yes, SoftSqueeze as well. What ? I SAID ALL OF THEM ! andynormancx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17417 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81682 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 + Power amp problem
There is another obscure possibility - the AW100 seems to have a DC detection circuit connected to those speaker relays. The inputs have DC blocking capacitors on the schematic, which will prevent any DC from the source getting through to the amp - which would then keep those relays open. if there is any DC on the SB3 output AND your amp had been modified (taking out DC blocking caps being a common - if stupid - mod) that MIGHT explain things. Unlikely, but not impossible. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81664 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/96 conundrum
Can you describe your Touch setup in detail. Also can you try a 48K file? Who did the X-DAC mods? (Audiocom?) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81701 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interesting post.
Quite enjoyed skimming that blog. And it's been added to reader for future reference. -- lrossouw Louis 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/lrossouw) lrossouw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3416 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81616 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] S-Booster
*couch* was not the old 230V SB3 supply even worse -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81454 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interesting post.
michael123;573906 Wrote: > You will be surprised, but I measured system response of my system with > different cables and saw some variation in midrange (couple dB). > Measurements were consistent, I repeated few times.. in one case there > was correlation with our listening experience > > Also, Transparent and MIT are not really just wires.. FYI > > Is there something you DO think makes a difference in sound? > [ because some people here think DAC sound same.. for example ] Oh yeah those strange network at the cable ends , that would make them different ;) actually a wire should be just a wire ? Speaker wire can have an measurable impact if the speakers have very low impedance or are very reactive, bot not a couple of dB ? that suggest that almost half of the voltage is dropped over the cable in certain frequencies ? that must be something wrong with that design of one of the tested wires, a short thick cable with low inductance that's a good speaker cable. Do you have old infinity speakers or appogee scintilla's . You can also have problems with amp's with high output impedance (tube amp's with output transformer's ) they change frequency response depending on the load impedance Long runs of very thin speaker wire can be measured for shure in some cases. with some speaker, but thats speaker wires and the remedy still cost only a couple of dollars. Signal cables not so and I think most of the discussion in that link was about signal cables . But maybe in "audiophile engineering" you can find design that reacts in strange ways to signal cables :-/ The danish brand Holfi actually had a CD player that outputted much more distorsion in to a normal 10kOhm preamp input than to thier own preamps with 800 Ohm input's ? -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe' Primare and Dynadio speakers, Contour 4 Contour Center, and Contour 1.3SE for the rear ch. Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81616 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sound quality between wav and flac
OK I've updated the testing method. Hydrogenaudio testing involves this method: http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=ABX This is each trial has 3 tracks. 2 of the tracks are known to be pcm and flac (A & B). Track X is unknown and one needs to decide whether X is the same as A or B. I suppose this method give the person who believe they can hear the difference the benefit of the doubt as they would in each trial have sample of both known cases available to them. So in the interest of whoever wants to do these tests I've updated the spreadsheet to reflect this method for now. They reccomend 16 as an optimal numebr to avoid listener fatigue, but have enough data. I've left it at 30 for now. Just delete rows as required. Otherwise comments as above applies. Note that in their method they most frequently also use the same track throughout. Independence is provided by the fact that X is randomly assigned in each case. Note that this does not mean X should be 50:50 split between A & B. +---+ |Filename: ABX Testing.zip | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10553| +---+ -- lrossouw Louis 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/lrossouw) lrossouw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3416 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=71321 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interesting post.
Nonreality;573155 Wrote: > About cables and stuff. > http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2010/08/23/from-the-any-publicity-file/ > He also does the How to spot a psycopath site which is very > interesting. This is about logic and stuff that really doesn't go with > audiophile 100% but oh well. You will be surprised, but I measured system response of my system with different cables and saw some variation in midrange (couple dB). Measurements were consistent, I repeated few times.. in one case there was correlation with our listening experience Also, Transparent and MIT are not really just wires.. FYI Is there something you DO think makes a difference in sound? [ because some people here think DAC sound same.. for example ] -- michael123 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81616 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interesting post.
Nonreality;573176 Wrote: > Dan is a very fine skeptic and his site that I stumbled upon years ago > has always delighted me. He runs 2 sites, dans data and how to spot a > psycopath and they are both fun and informative. Way too smart for me > btw. but you know those aussies. I'm not sure it is a question of being "smart" vs. being perceptive. "Audiophiles" are, in general, a rebellious and "unstable" lot. Not always "smart" in the ways of the world. "Unstable" - in the sense that they are not consistent in the accepted ways of the world. "Unstable" in the productive nature of society. The status quo has never been expressed through music. Music is about the fringe of thought. The edges of "reality". It's about what can be, and what should be. It's not about what is "there". "There" does not need to be put to music. It's just "there". The status quo, in need of change. -- earwaxer9 System: modified Winsome Labs Mouse, modified Maggie MMG's, Transporter, HSU sub 12, MSB DAC to 500 watt sub slave amp, JPS labs power cords, Silver audio interconnect, Audioquest Granite speaker cable. earwaxer9's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39527 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81616 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linear PSU for Squeezebox Touch
We all tend to get obsessed with power supplies! - I personally would not mess with my Transporter PS. Nor with any DAC. I have switched to a battery supply on my T-amp with very good results. Very different animal! The SMPS on the amp was not nearly as "responsive" and "revealing" as the battery. Bass was better and punchier on my Maggies as well. -- earwaxer9 System: modified Winsome Labs Mouse, modified Maggie MMG's, Transporter, HSU sub 12, MSB DAC to 500 watt sub slave amp, JPS labs power cords, Silver audio interconnect, Audioquest Granite speaker cable. earwaxer9's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39527 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81682 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 24/96 conundrum
A while ago I tried changing settings to convert flac to PCM on the server. Recently I noticed that 24/96 files weren't playing and crashed something- the dac ( modded mf x dac v3) loses lock and won't regain it without restoring the touch to factory settings. The problem is specific to 24/96: 24/88 works fine and dandy. I wondered whether it had something to do with the server flac conversion as it used to work, I am sure. I have set the flac setting to flac: native; PCM disabled. But it still crashes. Are there any other settings which might be at fault. I am a bit worried it might possibly have something to do with change of clock in dac, but am hoping I have accidentally changed a setting. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81701 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linear PSU for Squeezebox Touch
Go over to the S-Booster thread and look at my reply near the end, I list my experiences with PS supplies for the Touch. The upshot is that changes in sound due to supplies are mostly due to noise being sent back down the AC mains. The supply that comes with the Touch is quite good in this regard. Its not perfect though. Going with a linear supply does not guarantee it will be any better. I can't tell for sure whether the supply you have will be better or not. I can't find a schematic on the web site. Looking at the picture its not obvious it is doing what is required to do a really good job in this regard. Be prepared that you may need to keep that filter in place with the linear supply. I have a design which DOES do a very good job of producing extremely low noise both radiated and sent down the AC main. If you are interested I can send the schematic. On the question of over voltage, the only thing that runs directly off the 5V supply is a bus powered USB device, everything else goes through a regulator. You have to get above 12V or so to even think of the voltage frying one of the regulators. Its more likely to overheat something, the more voltage you have to burn the more heat it generates. Fortunately most of the high current loads go through DC-DC converters that will properly convert from whatever voltage you give with pretty much constant dissipation. So a 5.6 input is not going to hurt anything. When you want to get into significant hardware upgrades to the Touch let me know, I can come up with some very good low jitter clocks and supply designs for you. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81682 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linear PSU for Squeezebox Touch
Thank you for your replies. Several types of linear outboard PSU has been recommended in several forums. And also in this Forum.! I have though respect for you guys in here. When you say that there is no different in soundstage when using different outboard PSU. I believe that your experience with the SBT and an other PSU then the supplied already has been tested? What types of PSU has you tested? Thank you for your information regarding supply the SBT with 5.6V ( 600mV Overvoltage) when using a battery. Regarding Ground loops. I also believe in avoiding ground loops with proper system setup. And my experience is that this can be tricky... By the way: regarding avoiding groundloops: do you guys have any good experience using optical cables for the SPDIF(Toslink) connection? Please Check this interesting link for updates regarding the SBT. http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html I find this link very interesting. I have not yet tested all the modifications, so I can't comment the author modifications. All these has made me interesting in making this "upgrade". I have not yet listen to the System yet, because the PSU is yet not ready for use. One thing I can say (hear ) for sure is that a Net filter in front of the Original 5V adaptor PSU will improve sound stage. This Net filter will filter both incoming "noise" to the SBT and Outcoming "noise" from the SBT / original 5V adaptor PSU. Regarding HW modifications: It is correct that there are Switch supplies inside the SBT. And these can properly be improved. I also believe that the Clock circuits can be improved if Low Jitter(Phase Noise) OSC is installed instead of using the installed two crystals that are running on 24.576MHz(for 96KHz samples ) and 22.579MHz(for 44.1KHz Samples). the OSC must of cause have own regulation for each OSC. This will be a future upgrade. Decoupling caps in the right values and in the right places around the Digital supplies could properly also improve the Jitter of the Digital output. The reason for not buying the transport are that I'm driving the Digital output into a outboard DAC. The "digital output" Jitter of the SBT are lower when compared with a Transporter. Please see Links: Jitter measurement for SBT: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/files/SBTouch_Jitter_SPDIF_0.jpg http://www.computeraudiophile.com/files/SBTouch_Jitter_Toslink.jpg Jitter measurement for Transporter: (see fig 10) http://stereophile.com/mediaservers/207slim/index4.html I have NOT test this my self but I hope the above links shows valid measurements. Back to the Linear supply. This is my first try to make the SBT sound even better then it originally already does, but I now aware that there may not be any improvement. -- Caad Caad's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9350 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81682 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 + Power amp problem
azaz44;573838 Wrote: > This is the inside of my amp, if you're interested: > > http://www.abload.de/img/eckysg.jpg > > I took the pictures some days ago and unfortunately doesn't have higher > resolution image anymore. Would need to open it again. > > Mayby you can locate the variable resistor, although I think I rather > wouldn't modify anything inside just for SB3. > > Where did you find the schematics? It can be useful if I ever need to > get it repaired. The two light green boxes at the back are the relays. I can't see the variable resistor from the pic. There will be 2 - one per channel. The schematic is available here: http://www.schematicsunlimited.com/?z=electrocompaniet In all seriousness, I'd just use the Creek. All it is (in passive mode) is a very high quality ALPS pot. Nothing there that can possibly degrade the sound. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81664 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 + Power amp problem
This is the inside of my amp, if you're interested: http://www.abload.de/img/eckysg.jpg I took the pictures some days ago and unfortunately doesn't have higher resolution image anymore. Would need to open it again. Mayby you can locate the variable resistor, although I think I rather wouldn't modify anything inside just for SB3. Where did you find the schematics? It can be useful if I ever need to get it repaired. -- azaz44 azaz44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81664 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 + Power amp problem
I've located the schematic for this (very complicated) amp. It does have some kind of sensing circuit right at the input stage that is connected to a servo circuit that controls the speaker muting relays. There is also a timer delay on the servo - so it seems that the relays will not close until 2 conditions are satisfied: some time has passed after swtich on and something(I can't tell what) is detected at the input. There is a variable resistor (R3 on the schematic) that governs the sensitivity of the input detector. This might need adjusting to make the amp detect the SB. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81664 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best 24/96 demo tracks?
Phil Leigh;573811 Wrote: > > The DVD-A of Hotel California walks over the CD version. Even when > downsampled to 48/24. Likewise the SACD versions of (most) Genesis > albums. > Indeed this is one of the rare exceptions. When around 2000 many DVD-A arised they were often completely new mixes and carefully remastered versions. No wonder they sounded better as the corresponding CDs. Today of most DVD-A releases from back then a better sounding CD version is around meanwhile. One reason 24bit arises now is that they want us to buy online downloads and get the music we own already on CD again inmuch better quality, marketing says. At least on HDtracks mayn older releases come up as 24bit now. -- Wombat Transporter -> RG142 -> Avantgarde based monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81634 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 + Power amp problem
Phil Leigh;573821 Wrote: > It's very simple for the EC to measure what - if anything - is > connected to its input. > > Yes - the Creek can easily lower the impedance in fully passive mode. > > The Rotel works and its impedance is 470 ohms which is low. > Can you try the CD player directly into the EC? - that would prove or > disprove my theory. > > I think the EC needs a low-ish impedance across its inputs to un-mute. OK. I cannot play the music from the CD (no volume control), but can connect it and see, if the power amp starts fine. Will do tomorrow. -- azaz44 azaz44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81664 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 + Power amp problem
azaz44;573819 Wrote: > I'm no master in electronics... > > And I know the impedance could make a problem with sound, but I cannot > imagine how the EC can complain or measure anything, if there's no > signal coming. This means it's just 0V between signal and ground on > both inputs, thus no current. > > As for the numbers, it seems the SB3 output impedance is 220 Ohms, > which I found here: > > http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=23435.0 > > by comparison, my CD player (NAD C541i) has 200 Ohms, EC pre (which I > don't own) has 100 Ohms. > > But as it comes to CD, I just found I actually didn't connect it > directly, I always used a pre. The CD doesn't have any volume control. > So I don't know, if this 200 Ohms are OK. > > > Can the passive preamp (no power connected) make the impedance lower? > as I imagine, it cannot, can keep the same when the volume is set to > maximum, or make it even worse in other cases. But I'm no master in > electronics as I wrote... > > I just checked the output impedance of the active pre which works fine. > This is Rotel RA-02, which is a budget integra actually, but can be used > as pre-amp as well. The output voltage/impedance of the pre outs is: > 1V/470 Ohms. So actually over two times worse than SB3 - and still > works with EC. > > > It seems I will have time to test shorting plugs soonest tomorrow. If > it doesn't work, it's maybe a good idea to contact Electrocompaniet, > maybe they know the answer, or at least what the amp is checking for. > > As for safety, I know about the problem. It's very simple for the EC to measure what - if anything - is connected to its input. The Rotel works and its impedance is 470 ohms which is low. Can you try the CD player directly into the EC? - that would prove or disprove my theory. I think the EC needs a low-ish impedance across its inputs to un-mute. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81664 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 + Power amp problem
Phil Leigh;573807 Wrote: > Stop. I have an idea. Based on CliveB's observation that the pins on > your adaptors are actually wired up as per the website - and not as you > posted... > > I think what is happening is this: > > 1) the EC will not fire up unless it senses a medium level impedance > across its inputs - this must be based on some voltage or current > sensing circuit. This is done for good reasons - it's to prevent > destroying your speakers if you start the amp without anything > connected to its inputs and then plug something in - which can send > full-power transients through your speakers. > > 2) The Creek passive pre-amp puts an impedance of 5k ohms with the > volume control in circuit and about 10 ohms (!) from the fixed output. > This is obviously enough to satisfy the protection circuit. > > 3) The SB on its own is too high an impedance to activate the un-mute > circuit. I don't know what the output impedance of the SB is, but it's > going to be higher than a pre-amp - maybe 10 times higher. The EC is > expecting to be driven from a low-ish impedance source... > > That's the only explanation I can come up with that seems to fit the > facts to hand. > > As for a fix... well you really should have some form of passive > attenuation between ANY SB and a power amp anyway - for safety reasons. > I'd stick the Creek back in if I were you. I'm no master in electronics... And I know the impedance could make a problem with sound, but I cannot imagine how the EC can complain or measure anything, if there's no signal coming. This means it's just 0V between signal and ground on both inputs, thus no current. As for the numbers, it seems the SB3 output impedance is 220 Ohms, which I found here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=23435.0 by comparison, my CD player (NAD C541i) has 200 Ohms, EC pre (which I don't own) has 100 Ohms. But as it comes to CD, I just found I actually didn't connect it directly, I always used a pre. The CD doesn't have any volume control. So I don't know, if this 200 Ohms are OK. Can the passive preamp (no power connected) make the impedance lower? as I imagine, it cannot, can keep the same when the volume is set to maximum, or make it even worse in other cases. But I'm no master in electronics as I wrote... I just checked the output impedance of the active pre which works fine. This is Rotel RA-02, which is a budget integra actually, but can be used as pre-amp as well. The output voltage/impedance of the pre outs is: 1V/470 Ohms. So actually over two times worse than SB3 - and still works with EC. It seems I will have time to test shorting plugs soonest tomorrow. If it doesn't work, it's maybe a good idea to contact Electrocompaniet, maybe they know the answer, or at least what the amp is checking for. As for safety, I know about the problem. -- azaz44 azaz44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81664 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linear PSU for Squeezebox Touch
First Question: If you bought this kit board, why would you buy a $140 incomplete caseless PS for a $300 Touch? Second Question: Are you aware that the Touch has more then one internal switching power supply inside 'After' the external 5VDC input? And the Touch has its own internal regulators. Third Question: Upon knowing the information from question two, are you now aware that adding a linear power supply has no benefits for the Touch unless there are other external problems that exist and need to be fixed first? These external issues are: one has a dead OEM PS, one has ground loop noise, ones other equipment is poorly designed and is picking up RFI from the OEM supply. All of these issues can be fixed without buying an expensive Linear PS. Even after solving the external problems the Linear PS adds no benefits to the Touch's Audio. A Linear PS for the Touch is just a very expensive way to eliminate a ground loop that should be fixed with proper system setup anyway. As Phil said, I hope you are just a hobbyist looking for a project for the Touch has a very good switching power supply (as switchers go, yes its still not a linear) and good power management internally for what it is. As for the voltage question, do you mean a 4/10 of a volt 'drop'? One place you say drop the other place you say over-voltage. If its just at startup, I don't think either is an issue. I have run the Touch off a 5VDC battery which actually has 5.6 VDC when fully changed. It is my opinion that it would take much time, work, expense, and effort with the internal power supplies to show any improvement worth having or even hearing. What I am talking about is opening the Touch and replacing each internal voltage need with its own linear regulated voltage (or use battery supply). I have gone to this trouble on other Squeezeboxes and could hear no difference but a slight difference did show up on the AudioDiffMaker graph. IOW, it isn't worth the trouble. Buy a Transporter is your system is good enough to squeeze, pun intended, every bit of best sound out of the Touch. Anyway, looks like a fun project which is what I am hoping it is. -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Wood Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1, Vandersteen V2W Subwoofer Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Squeezebox BOOM Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81682 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 + Power amp problem
On 02/09/10 17:44, Phil Leigh wrote: > 3) The SB on its own is too high an impedance to activate the un-mute > circuit. I don't know what the output impedance of the SB is, but it's > going to be higher than a pre-amp - maybe 10 times higher. The EC is > expecting to be driven from a low-ish impedance source... Assuming the SB has an op-amp output circuit, surely it will have a pretty low impedance? I would be surprised if it's higher than a passive preamp. R. -- "Feed that ego and you starve the soul" - Colonel J.D. Wilkes http://www.theshackshakers.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best 24/96 demo tracks?
R Johnson;573795 Wrote: > As I've explored the "Better-Than-CD" world, I'm coming to the > conclusion that the quality improvements are really not very > significant, at least for me. The FAR more significant aspect is the > RECORDING itself -- performance, venue, microphone techniques, etc. It's all about the care taken in the (re)mastering in most cases - on top of the things you mentioned, all of which are important. You can hear the words properly on the REM DVD-A's for example. They are mostly much on the normal CD's. The DVD-A of Hotel California walks over the CD version. Even when downsampled to 48/24. Likewise the SACD versions of (most) Genesis albums. It's NOT about the sample rate or number of bits in the file you use for actual playback - it's about how the music got there - the digital journey. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81634 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linear PSU for Squeezebox Touch
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I hope you are doing this because you like amateur electronics and not because you think the sound of the Touch will improve. It won't. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81682 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 + Power amp problem
azaz44;573766 Wrote: > You're right, I somehow mixed up the pins. > > But I think the connectors must be OK, as the amp starts fine and plays > music from all other sources I have, other then SB3. > > What is really strange, is that plugging a passive amp with no power > (and no ground) in between helps. > > I've bought some cheap RCA cables and will disassembly one of them on > one end and try to connect grounds. Stop. I have an idea. Based on CliveB's observation that the pins on your adaptors are actually wired up as per the website - and not as you posted... I think what is happening is this: 1) the EC will not fire up unless it senses a medium level impedance across its inputs - this must be based on some voltage or current sensing circuit. This is done for good reasons - it's to prevent destroying your speakers if you start the amp without anyhting connected to its inputs and then plug something in - which can send full power transients through your speakers. 2) The Creek passive pre-amp puts an impedance of 5k ohms with the volume control in circuit and about 10 ohms (!) from the fixed output. This is obviously enough to satisfy the protection circuit. 3) The SB on its own is too high an impedance to activate the un-mute circuit. I don't know what the output impedance of the SB is, but it's going to be higher than a pre-amp - maybe 10 times higher. The EC is expecting to be driven from a low-ish impedance source... That's the only explanation I can come up with that seems to fits the facts to hand. As for a fix... well you really should have some form of passive attenuation between ANY SB and a power amp anyway - for safety reasons. I'd stick the Creek back in if I were you. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81664 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best 24/96 demo tracks?
Kal Rubinson;573797 Wrote: > But of course! OTOH, given all that, there are some advantages to > hi-res. Now, if we could only get hi-res > multichannel I hope you don't have to wait too long, Kal! I'm looking forward to finding the new Stereophile issue in my mailbox one of these days with your front cover review of the Touch. -- R Johnson R Johnson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=36462 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81634 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best 24/96 demo tracks?
R Johnson;573795 Wrote: > As I've explored the "Better-Than-CD" world, I'm coming to the > conclusion that the quality improvements are really not very > significant, at least for me. The FAR more significant aspect is the > RECORDING itself -- performance, venue, microphone techniques, etc.But of > course! OTOH, given all that, there are some advantages to hi-res. Now, if we could only get hi-res multichannel -- Kal Rubinson Kal Rubinson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40032 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81634 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best 24/96 demo tracks?
As I've explored the "Better-Than-CD" world, I'm coming to the conclusion that the quality improvements are really not very significant, at least for me. The FAR more significant aspect is the RECORDING itself -- performance, venue, microphone techniques, etc. -- R Johnson R Johnson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=36462 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81634 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best 24/96 demo tracks?
Mnyb;573683 Wrote: > The Dunedin is "ok" . A Vivaldi that also is "ok" . > > I have one Barb Jungr that I think is "bad" it also musically very > boring, with elevator style arangements. > And harsh sounding > All i know "Every Grain Of Sand" is superb sounding already as 16/44.1 and "Just Like A Woman" isn´t that great at all. More i don´t know. -- Wombat Transporter -> RG142 -> Avantgarde based monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81634 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 + Power amp problem
I double checked - it still doesn't work with direct connection SB3->EC. And it still does with the passive in between. I tried connecting grounds - no result. Tried different cable - no result. Tried also to connect SB3 PSU reversed - no result. It is not possible to reverse EC power cable. It looks really strange to me. I'll try to make shorting plugs in the evening. -- azaz44 azaz44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81664 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 + Power amp problem
cliveb;573771 Wrote: > Are you saying you're going to try connecting the SB3 ground to the EC > ground using an additional cable, while still using the XLR inputs? > > If that's what you plan to try, I don't think it will help. Now that we > know how the RCA/XLR adaptors are wired, my hypothesis about the > floating ground being involved in no longer valid. > > Seems to me you'd be much better off just using the EC's RCA inputs as > described by Phil. Well, give me any idea, I'll try it. I'll try to use RCA inputs as well (have to make some shorting plugs first), but as far as I understand, there's really no difference comparing to using XLR's, if XLR's unused pins are grounded in the connector properly. So I don't expect that it will make any difference. -- azaz44 azaz44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81664 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 + Power amp problem
azaz44;573766 Wrote: > I've bought some cheap RCA cables and will disassembly one of them on > one end and try to connect grounds. Are you saying you're going to try connecting the SB3 ground to the EC ground using an additional cable, while still using the XLR inputs? If that's what you plan to try, I don't think it will help. Now that we know how the RCA/XLR adaptors are wired, my hypothesis about the floating ground being involved in no longer valid. Seems to me you'd be much better off just using the EC's RCA inputs as described by Phil. -- cliveb Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81664 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 + Power amp problem
You're right, I somehow mixed up the pins. But I think the connectors must be OK, as the amp starts fine and plays music from all other sources I have, other then SB3. What is really strange, is that plugging a passive amp with no power (and no ground) in between helps. I've bought some cheap RCA cables and will disassembly one of them on one end and try to connect grounds. -- azaz44 azaz44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81664 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linear PSU for Squeezebox Touch
Hi. I'm working on a Linear PSU upgrade to the SBT using a Transistor with grounded Basis via a Voltage-Ref from NewclassD.com http://www.newclassd.com/index.php?page=71 I know the Max load is 1.5A for this PSU. The Current limiter is temp-regulated, so i have added a big heat sink if Current schould exceed the 1.5A. Also and I'm not connecting a USB HDD or using the internal SBS. Only problem is that the output pwr drops around 400mV when setting the load to 1.5A. This is not a problem because it is possible to adjust the output voltage by a Potmeter. but Will the SBT surwive the 400mV over voltage when the Linear PSU connector connects to the SBT The Squeezebox Touch accepts 5VDC input. Does anybody knows the Max tolerance on this inputvoltage? 5VDC +/- ?V Thanks -- Caad Caad's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9350 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81682 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Touch: Upsampling with sox?
aha, so that might be an issue with sox did you try redirecting the output to file and comparing these two? where is the difference? -- michael123 michael123's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23745 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80903 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Touch: Upsampling with sox?
headers??
As you can see the "flc pcm" conversion rule outputs a
raw stream without a problem.
Code:
flc pcm * *
# FT:{START=--skip=%t}U:{END=--until=%v}
[flac] -dc --totally-silent --force-raw-format --endian=little
--sign=signed $START$ $END$ -- $FILE$
Based on above, I tried that one:
Code:
flc pcm * *
# FT:{START=--skip=%t}U:{END=--until=%v}
[flac] -dc --totally-silent --force-raw-format --endian=little
--sign=signed $START$ $END$ -- $FILE$ | [sox] -q -D -v0.8 -t raw -e
signed-integer -b16 -c2 -r44100 - -t raw -e signed-integer -b24 -c2 - rate -v
-s -M -a 88200
It is giving me static noise and my reveiver reports SR 44.1. Very
strange.
--
soundcheck
'soundcheck's au...@vise - Squeezebox Touch Modification Blog'
(http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/p/squeezebox-touch-great-base-for-network.html)
soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=80903
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] SB3 + Power amp problem
Phil Leigh;573690 Wrote: > > > azaz44;573687 Wrote: > > http://www.fullcompass.com/product/297984.html > > > > It's written it has signal on pin 1, and pin's 2+3 connected to ground.> > > The EC requires GND on pin 1, + on pin 2 and - on pin 3 for its > XLR's. > Your plugs are shorting the signal to GND, hence no sound. > Having signal going to pin 1 is just so non-standard that I followed the link to check. Sure enough, the website says that signal goes to pin 2, with pins 1 and 3 connected to ground. So the signal is NOT being shorted to ground. This adaptor DOES join the screen of the RCA to the EC's ground, which in turn means that the SB3's ground will be shunted to earth via the EC amp. And therefore my earlier hypothesis does NOT explain the problem. -- cliveb Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=81664 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
