Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
MCR- I'm simply a consumer, per your definitions, but I'm very interested in Phil's tests. Why? I'd like to know if the small improvement I hear (or think I hear) with Soundcheck's mods is possibly based on some actual difference his tweaks make in the audio stream, or if it is entirely imagined by me. What's wrong with that? AFIK, Phil is simply curious and doing all of us a service. If you're not interested, fine. Why do you feel compelled to snipe at something many of us are intrested in? As both Phil and Klaus noted, Phil's preliminary findings are open to interpretation. Klaus obviously sees them as "proof" that his mods "do something" and aren't just operating on the placebo effect. I'd certainly see them that way if I was him. But I'm glad Phil made the effort to run his tests and report. I hope he finishes the check on the digital output and isn't put off by the negative reaction here. By the way, I have no horse in this race. I also support Klaus' efforts, and use his mods. I even made a small contribution to support the quite serious amount of time and effort he puts into these mods. -- firedog Tranquil PC fanless WHS server running SqueezeServer; SB Touch slaved to Empirical Audio Pace Car; MF V DAC3, MF X-150 amp, Devore Gibbon Super 8 Speakers; Dual 506 + Ortofon 20 (occasional use); sometimes use PC with M-Audio 192 as digital source. SB Boom in second room. Arcam CD82 which I don't use anymore, even though it's a very good player. firedog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11550 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Quality of digital outs from the Squeezebox
garym;611709 Wrote: > hmmm, not sure about introducing jitter (jitter is about the timing of > the packets as far as I understand). This might be interesting reading > (I realize that this is the company's info, but the benchmark DAC I-USB > gets good reviews; mostly just a starting place for a little bit more on > USB DACS): > > http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac/dac1-usb > > > Also from their website (again, I'm not suggesting this is gospel, just > interesting -- and I do own a Benchmark DAC I, but an older model where > I'm using S/PDIF for connecting). And note the last sentence below. > > == > Several tests have been performed on third-party, USB-to-PCM converters > to determine which technologies are bit-transparent, as an ideal > USB-to-PCM converter should be. Native USB audio devices, like the DAC1 > USB, have been found to be bit-transparent. Native devices are defined > as those devices which use the native USB audio drivers, versus > special, custom drivers. All non-native devices tested were found to > NOT be bit-transparent. > > > The Benchmark DAC1 USB is unique in that its native USB audio support > extends to 24-bit operation at sample rates up to 96 kHz (with fully > automatic sample rate transitions). All other native USB devices > tested, including 'high-end' digital-to-analog converters, are limited > to 48 kHz, 16 bit. We have not been able to find external USB interface > that delivers the same level of performance as the interface that is > built into the DAC1 USB. 24-bit capability is essential even when > playing 16-bit material. The 24-bit capability prevents truncation in > the computer caused by computer-based volume controls. > > > A common problem with USB audio is the presence of pops and clicks. The > DAC1 USB is also unique in that it is immune to these pops and clicks. Being bit perfect has nothing to do with being jitter free. A stream can be bit perfect and have lots of jitter. Nothing against Benchmark, but they do a disservice with marketing implying their DACs are immune to jitter. It simply isn't true, and in fact all digital audio has some jitter - you can't eliminate it entirely. What you'd like is to reduce it to very low levels. The Benchmark statement above about native drivers is also very nice, but not so relevant. Yes, asynch USB units that go up to 24/192 need special drivers, but who cares if they work well? That's the reason for asynch USB, as the idea is that if you let the clock of the DAC control the data flow, and not the clock of the PC (as in most USB implelmentations)you will get less jitter. General reaction seems to be that asynch USB is implemented very successfully in many devices now on the market, and for hi-end audio it is becoming the preferred implementation. -- firedog Tranquil PC fanless WHS server running SqueezeServer; SB Touch slaved to Empirical Audio Pace Car; MF V DAC3, MF X-150 amp, Devore Gibbon Super 8 Speakers; Dual 506 + Ortofon 20 (occasional use); sometimes use PC with M-Audio 192 as digital source. SB Boom in second room. Arcam CD82 which I don't use anymore, even though it's a very good player. firedog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11550 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84903 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Quality of digital outs from the Squeezebox
stop-spinning;611593 Wrote: > Actually - another question based on using the USB input on the SB Touch > as designed... usually USB is known to induce jitter when playing real > time music because the data packets get all chopped up (when not > asynchronous of course). hmmm, not sure about introducing jitter (jitter is about the timing of the packets as far as I understand). This might be interesting reading (I realize that this is the company's info, but the benchmark DAC I-USB gets good reviews; mostly just a starting place for a little bit more on USB DACS): http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/dac/dac1-usb Also from their website (again, I'm not suggesting this is gospel, just interesting -- and I do own a Benchmark DAC I, but an older model where I'm using S/PDIF for connecting). And note the last sentence below. == Several tests have been performed on third-party, USB-to-PCM converters to determine which technologies are bit-transparent, as an ideal USB-to-PCM converter should be. Native USB audio devices, like the DAC1 USB, have been found to be bit-transparent. Native devices are defined as those devices which use the native USB audio drivers, versus special, custom drivers. All non-native devices tested were found to NOT be bit-transparent. The Benchmark DAC1 USB is unique in that its native USB audio support extends to 24-bit operation at sample rates up to 96 kHz (with fully automatic sample rate transitions). All other native USB devices tested, including 'high-end' digital-to-analog converters, are limited to 48 kHz, 16 bit. We have not been able to find external USB interface that delivers the same level of performance as the interface that is built into the DAC1 USB. 24-bit capability is essential even when playing 16-bit material. The 24-bit capability prevents truncation in the computer caused by computer-based volume controls. A common problem with USB audio is the presence of pops and clicks. The DAC1 USB is also unique in that it is immune to these pops and clicks. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84903 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital vs. Analog (again)
Yeah, I only rip Lps that never made it to CD, and usually only things I want to share with friends at that. One reason not to bother is that with modern cartridges and tonearms, there's no reason not to just play the Lp when you want to hear it. It's not going to wear out. However, if something is too scratchy to enjoy, software like ClickRepair can clean it up very well without effecting the music. -- Daverz Daverz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85590 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
aubuti;611640 Wrote: > Maybe because you prefaced it with -"This is the same as when I'm > ordering a meal"-, which you presumably don't do with friends and > family? Sadly, I do it, mainly because of my dietary constraints (I'm a vegetarian, I'm watching my cholesterol). -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Rega DAC - Has anyone auditioned one yet?
Yes I'm sure the volume was matched because the Rega DAC does not have a volume control. The volume on the touch was set to 100 and was adjusted only with the integrated. -- Taylormade Taylormade's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15197 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84783 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] If you can hear it, can you measure it?
bluegaspode;611642 Wrote: > This is is when I lost the faith in my own hearing capabilities (along > with the video shown above and I was shocked, when trying out the test > files there myself). > > Now I'm in the camp of non-believers - and if anyone tells me there is > a difference I want at least some argument and explanation. > Don't want to be fooled by myself :D Yeah. I hear you -- no pun intended, :-) -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85681 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] If you can hear it, can you measure it?
garym;611617 Wrote: > If you'd like to play with this, download foobar2000 and the ABX > component and do some ABX testing on how well you can distinguish > between an mp3 file of various compression levels and a lossless file. > I assure you it will be humbling! This is is when I lost the faith in my own hearing capabilities (along with the video shown above and I was shocked, when trying out the test files there myself). Now I'm in the camp of non-believers - and if anyone tells me there is a difference I want at least some argument and explanation. Don't want to be fooled by myself :D -- bluegaspode Big Screen for great Boxes available now at your AppStore: *'Squeezebox + iPad = SqueezePad ' (www.squeezepad.com)* - -now featuring streaming to iPad!- Want to see a Weather Forecast on your Radio/Touch/Controller ? => why not try my 'Weather Forecast Applet' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73827) Want to use the Headphones with your Controller ? => why not try my 'Headphone Switcher Applet' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67139) Setup: 1x SB-Controller+Receiver (Duet), 1xSB-Boom. 2xSB-Radio Server (7.5.x) running on SheevaPlug (Ubuntu) with attached Western Digital MyBook Essential. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85681 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
magiccarpetride;611634 Wrote: > For some reason, my statement seems to solicit interpretations that I'm > talking about restaurant food. Maybe because you prefaced it with -"This is the same as when I'm ordering a meal"-, which you presumably don't do with friends and family? Fwiw, I am also usually interested in how a meal is prepared. Especially if it's from friends or family and especially if I like it. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
magiccarpetride;611634 Wrote: > I wholeheartedly agree with you. For some reason, my statement seems to > solicit interpretations that I'm talking about restaurant food. That, > however, is not the case. I'm talking about meals I every now and then > enjoy when visiting family and friends. (I usually don't eat out in > restaurants, mainly because I find it to be quite expensive) gotcha! I do think the notion of different folks are more or less interested in the "whys" of things is an important take-a-way of this thread. The "different strokes" idea is important for us all to understand. I'm dealing with an Heat/AC issue with a newly installed unit. I wanted to be a pure consumer (it works, move on). Instead, I'm becoming an expert on HOW the system works just so I can be an educated consumer and understand my options for the vendor to get things right. And I HATE it. Now, learning about WHY my TOUCH might have better digital outs than my duet receiver is interesting to me, even though I have no audio engineering credentials or training. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
garym;611612 Wrote: > I'm definitely a consumer, but I do have some interest in HOW the food > was prepared (quality of the ingredients used (particularly in terms of > did the stuff come from humane farming operations vs the other end of > the spectrum), cleanliness of preparation process, how the workers are > generally treated. I prefer to spend my consumer dollars on stuff that > fits my world view (when I have a choice that is...I'm not completely > hard core about this concept, but when I have choices, I do the best I > can). I wholeheartedly agree with you. For some reason, my statement seems to solicit interpretations that I'm talking about restaurant food. That, however, is not the case. I'm talking about meals I every now and then enjoy when visiting family and friends. (I usually don't eat out in restaurants, mainly because I find it to be quite expensive) -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] If you can hear it, can you measure it?
Rick58;611600 Wrote: > Sounds interesting. I would think that single songs or snippets > (switched or not between playback of the same selections) would > increase the likelihood of being able to discern the difference. > you can do it either way. So you can do some DBT and/or ABX testing with short snippits, with weeks of listening, and on anything inbetween. If you'd like to play with this, download foobar2000 and the ABX component and do some ABX testing on how well you can distinguish between an mp3 file of various compression levels and a lossless file. I assure you it will be humbling! -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85681 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
magiccarpetride;611592 Wrote: > > This is the same as when I'm ordering a meal -- the only thing I worry > about is whether the food will taste good to me or not. Either way, I > have no interest in learning HOW was the food prepared. I'm definitely a consumer, but I do have some interest in HOW the food was prepared (quality of the ingredients used (particularly in terms of did the stuff come from humane farming operations vs the other end of the spectrum), cleanliness of preparation process, how the workers are generally treated. I prefer to spend my consumer dollars on stuff that fits my world view (when I have a choice that is...I'm not completely hard core about this concept, but when I have choices, I do the best I can). -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
magiccarpetride;611592 Wrote: > I agree. But let's establish the categories here: > > 1. Consumers > 2. DIY tweakers > 3. Manufacturers > > I am a consumer. You appear to be somewhere inbetween 1 and 2 (or, > maybe I'm wrong, maybe you're just an odd case of 1, someone who is > incapable of consuming without prior understanding of how does it work; > sort of like a person who is incapable of enjoying the meal without > first reading the recipe). > > Soundcheck (a.k.a. Klaus is clearly 2). > > I don't know anyone who belongs to 3, and I think theirs (i.e. > manufacturers') agendas are completely different. > > From my perspective (I'm 1), the only thing I need to establish is > whether the changes work for me or not. I'm not saying that this > approach works for everyone else (especially not for 2 and 3). > > This is the same as when I'm ordering a meal -- the only thing I worry > about is whether the food will taste good to me or not. Either way, I > have no interest in learning HOW was the food prepared. ...however it might make you a less than riveting food writer. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] If you can hear it, can you measure it?
garym;611523 Wrote: > of course you could use your own music, take notes, etc. And DBT doesn't > mean that you listen to a snippit then switch and listen to another > snippit. You can listen for weeks at at time to one source or the > other. Take notes, etc. The key is that YOU, the listener, don't know > which "system" you are listening to until after you're done with the > experiment.Sounds interesting. I would think that single songs or snippets (switched or not between playback of the same selections) would increase the likelihood of being able to discern the difference. garym;611523 Wrote: > Regarding the coat hanger speaker wire, the only point there is that > self professed audiophiles were not able to distinguish between high > quality speaker wire and a coat hanger in a controlled test. This > doesn't mean that there are not cables/wires that can make a > difference. But it does illustrate that self awareness is not as good > as many people think.The point I was trying to make is that possibly the > system was not sufficiently resolving to allow listeners to tell the difference, or, the room/music/situation was unfamiliar enough that the differences were masked, at least as far as the listeners' perceptions. Or maybe in that case, both wires actually did sound the same! -- Rick58 Bits: Azur 840C, Oppo 980H, SB Touch; Squiggles: Thorens TD-145 + Denon DL160; Pre-Heater: McIntosh C220; Heaters: Bottlehead Paramount 300B; Wavemakers: Triangle Titus, NHT SubOne Rick58's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42940 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85681 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Quality of digital outs from the Squeezebox
Or the internal SD card for that matter !!! -- stop-spinning stop-spinning's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43254 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84903 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Quality of digital outs from the Squeezebox
Actually - another question based on using the USB input on the SB Touch as designed... usually USB is known to induce jitter when playing real time music because the data packets get all chopped up (when not asynchronous of course). However - in the case of the SB Touch one would assume that the music from the USB stick gets securely 'copied' from the USB stick to the internal operating system in the SB Touch bit perfect (much like TCP/IP is bit perfect when sending data)- then after the copy process (into buffer or wherever) it gets 'played' from there. In other words - using secure file copy from the USB stick the SB does not effectively play the music 'from' the USB stick but from (after copy) the SB Touch o/s. When you use a USB connection that way, clock information is not present therefore Jitter is not part of that process. This also gives us the other advantage of not having to worry about galvanic isolation of the PC or NAS as your music source which could be a big advantage. However I might be thinking completely along the wrong lines if someone would like to correct me? -- stop-spinning stop-spinning's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43254 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84903 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;611477 Wrote: > We need to establish: > 1) do the mods work > 2) if so, how do they work > > Then we can move to step 3, which is: "utilize the knowledge gained > during 1 and 2 above to build better stuff" > > It's great that YOU don't care how things work - but others do > need/want to know and you need to respect their motivation just as much > as you'd expect them to respect yours. It's not a questio of right or > wrong, it's simply different strokes... > > This has nothing to do with digital per se - it is just as true for > analogue. Mains cables anyone? Burn-in? I agree. But let's establish the categories here: 1. Consumers 2. DIY tweakers 3. Manufacturers I am a consumer. You appear to be somewhere inbetween 1 and 2 (or, maybe I'm wrong, maybe you're just an odd case of 1, someone who is incapable of consuming without prior understanding of how does it work; sort of like a person who is incapable of enjoying the meal without first reading the recipe). Soundcheck (a.k.a. Klaus is clearly 2). I don't know anyone who belongs to 3, and I think theirs (i.e. manufacturers') agendas are completely different. >From my perspective (I'm 1), the only thing I need to establish is whether the changes work for me or not. I'm not saying that this approach works for everyone else (especially not for 2 and 3). This is the same as when I'm ordering a meal -- the only thing I worry about is whether the food will taste good to me or not. Either way, I have no interest in learning HOW was the food prepared. -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] If you can hear it, can you measure it?
Phil Leigh;611511 Wrote: > There are of course 4 realities: yours, mine, everyone else's and actual > reality... > > :-) You left my dog out of your equation. Was that on purpose? -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85681 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] If you can hear it, can you measure it?
Grahame;611448 Wrote: > This has been an interesting discussion, > But can you be certain of what it is you are hearing, or experiencing? > > If you are interested I suggest you make some time to watch and listen > to the "Audio Myths Workshop" Video available on youtube at > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ > > Thew original uncompressed audio files are available at > http://www.ethanwiner.com/aes/ > > Pay attention to Jim Johnston (one the world's foremost experts on > perceptual encoding) between 1:05 and 5:15, and the demonstration by > Poppy Crum (a neuroscientist specialising in the auditory system) > between 5:30 and 8:00. > More info on Dr. Crum > http://www.cogito.org/interviews/InterviewsDetail.aspx?ContentID=17862 > > It may change your perceptions on this matter :) Thanks for this, a must read for many, but unfortunately, the ego of many will never surrender to what is, but hold with all their might to what they want it to be -- Eriko Eriko's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38520 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85681 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
Phil Leigh;611555 Wrote: > I've noticed the "up" button problem too - I've stared and stared at the > code but can't see what the problem is. Chrome doesn't work either - > only IE8! > > Your "Can't open file for..." problem could be caused by an error in > the custom-convert.conf file that is generated by the Inguz plugin.pm > code. > > But - my guess is that the Qnap is unable to run Inguzdsp.exe for some > reason.. Just found a file called InguzDSP (no file extension) which contains pathing information to 'mono', InguzDSP, InguzDSP.exe error and log.txt. Putting in the correct paths I now get the following in the Inguz error file... ** (/share/MD0_DATA/.qpkg/SSOTS/var/home/SqueezeboxServer/Bin/i386-linux/InguzDSP.exe:2900): WARNING **: Shutting down finalizer thread timed out. So it looks as if you guessed correctly - the QNAP isn't running InguzDSP.exe correctly! From the command line InguzDSP -> InguzDSP.exe responds as it should though; i.e. # /share/MD0_DATA/.qpkg/SSOTS/var/home/SqueezeboxServer/Bin/i386-linux/InguzDSP Returns: Usage: InguzDSP -id clientID [-d outputbitdepth] [-r samplerate] [-wav] [-be] I guess it's back to Hugh for that one. Unless anyone knows different! Bob -- bobertuk 1 x Touch - SC 7.6.0 - SSOTS v4.91 1 x Radio 1 x Boom Lavry DA-10 DAC QNAP TS-509 3.3.6 build 1110T Starfish Pre-amp : Based on NAIM Heavily modified NAIM NAP 250 Power-amp Behringer DEQ2496 Linn Isobarik DMS bobertuk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30376 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
bobertuk;611540 Wrote: > Hi all, > > Has anyone managed to get Inguz running and working with Linux on SbS > 7.6/Touch? I use a QNAP TS-509 NAS which should have the horsepower. > > It's installed up to a point! The SbS 'Home/EQ' WebUI is functioning - > including the EQ graphic display and I can modify, save and recall new > EQ settings. In SBS/Settings/File types, I can set flac/InguzDSP as > well. But... with filetypes set to flac/InguzDSP, the Touch produces an > error 'Can't open file for: ' and nothing plays. I've used > the Inguz native files and Phil Leighs' modified files but the result > is the same. > > Suggestions anyone? > > In common with most others, selecting Settings/Plugins/EQ in the WebUI > doesn't do much. After several minutes it errors with 'Can't initialise > silverlight', then brings up a page with no EQ graph but with the > buttons intact. The buttons do nothing though! > > Something else notable is that running the WebUI on Firefox or Safari > on a MAC some of the 'up' buttons do nothing. In IE8 they all work as > expected. I've noticed the "up" button problem too - I've stared and stared at the code but can't see what the problem is. Chrome doesn't work either - only IE8! Your "Can't open file for..." problem could be caused by an error in the custom-convert.conf file that is generated by the Inguz plugin.pm code. But - my guess is that the Qnap is unable to run Inguzdsp.exe for some reason.. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF x-dacv3/x-10/x-psu(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] If you can hear it, can you measure it?
I'm pink therefore I'm spam...;) -- WAD62 Cheers Will WAD62's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38506 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85681 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
Hi all, Has anyone managed to get Inguz running and working with Linux on SbS 7.6/Touch? I use a QNAP TS-509 NAS which should have the horsepower. It's installed up to a point! The SbS 'Home/EQ' WebUI is functioning - including the EQ graphic display and I can modify, save and recall new EQ settings. In SBS/Settings/File types, I can set flac/InguzDSP as well. But... with filetypes set to flac/InguzDSP, the Touch produces an error 'Can't open file for: ' and nothing plays. I've used the Inguz native files and Phil Leighs' modified files but the result is the same. Suggestions anyone? In common with most others, selecting Settings/Plugins/EQ in the WebUI doesn't do much. After several minutes it errors with 'Can't initialise silverlight', then brings up a page with no EQ graph but with the buttons intact. The buttons do nothing though! Something else notable is that running the WebUI on Firefox or Safari on a MAC some of the 'up' buttons do nothing. In IE8 they all work as expected. -- bobertuk 1 x Touch - SC 7.6.0 - SSOTS v4.91 1 x Radio 1 x Boom Lavry DA-10 DAC QNAP TS-509 3.3.6 build 1110T Starfish Pre-amp : Based on NAIM Heavily modified NAIM NAP 250 Power-amp Behringer DEQ2496 Linn Isobarik DMS bobertuk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=30376 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital vs. Analog (again)
I've only ever bothered digitising some of my rare 12"s, it's such a pain to do even if you get the volume levels perfect it's going to take an elapsed time of about an hour. Then there's editing the waveform for track lead in etc. Oh and you get scratches & surface noise too. Most back catalogue CD's aren't too expensive these days (usually less than £10), and they're probably mastered to CD on better kit than I can afford, so unless you're on minimum wage, or there's no CD version available, it's a waste of time and money IMHO -- WAD62 Cheers Will WAD62's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38506 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85590 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] If you can hear it, can you measure it?
Rick58;611445 Wrote: > I have not participated in such things, but if I were to, I would insist > that I be allowed to provide the music (say, a CD) that contains > elements that I know well, and be allowed to take notes and refer to > notes that I might bring. > > For example, say in the song there is a tambourine line that I perceive > as being 5' behind and to the left side of the singer, the singer's > voice has a small touch of added artificial reverb that I have > perceived as sounding a certain way, etc.. > > If I cannot hear these things in sufficient detail on the 'reference' > system before changes are made, I would not participate. > > (edit: were you allowed to provide music? take notes? I am actually > interested in this in an 'academic' fashion, altho I may not ever agree > to participate in such a thing!). > > Listening to unfamiliar music, systems, rooms and being asked to > accurately discern when things change doesn't make any sense to me. > > There is mention of some DBT or something where folks were supposedly > unable to tell when a wire hangar was used as speaker cable, and this > is brought up as 'proof' that all cables sound alike ... those kinds of > arguments to me show the fallacy of the 'DBT' "movement". of course you could use your own music, take notes, etc. And DBT doesn't mean that you listen to a snippit then switch and listen to another snippit. You can listen for weeks at at time to one source or the other. Take notes, etc. The key is that YOU, the listener, don't know which "system" you are listening to until after you're done with the experiment. Regarding the coat hanger speaker wire, the only point there is that self professed audiophiles were not able to distinguish between high quality speaker wire and a coat hanger in a controlled test. This doesn't mean that there are not cables/wires that can make a difference. But it does illustrate that self awareness is not as good as many people think. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85681 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Volume, ReplayGain, & Crossfade, effect on sound quality
Phil Leigh;611510 Wrote: > That thread ignores one extremely significant point, namely there is NO > musical information in the bottom 3 bits of the 24 anyway, because no > ADC currently used for audio purpose can capture anything but noise in > them. Even if they did, they would be so quiet as to be at/beyond the > threshold of human hearing - and would in practice be masked by ambient > noise anyway. > > It is a fallacy/myth that having the volume NOT @ 100 loses musical > information for 24-bit. Obviously one doesn't want to lower the volume > too far, but essentially if you stick no more than 10dB of level > reduction (voume+replaygain) in total you are fine...which means > keeping the vol above 80 if not using RG and (say) 90 with RG. Thanks again Phil, another informed answer... -- WAD62 Cheers Will WAD62's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38506 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85691 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] If you can hear it, can you measure it?
There are of course 4 realities: yours, mine, everyone else's and actual reality... :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF x-dacv3/x-10/x-psu(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85681 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Volume, ReplayGain, & Crossfade, effect on sound quality
Cheers for the reply chaps... I'll carry on with ReplayGain, and Crossfade, I've not been able to spot any reduction in quality myself. With regard to Volume I always lock it at 100% anyway. However I've tracked down the thread that prompted the 100% Volume query "How to lock audio output at 100% (I think)" http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77837&page=2 There's an entry from 'peterw' which makes interesting reading; "If you're using analog output, you've just raised the noise floor about 25 dB (volume 50 = about -25 dB gain, theoretical noise floor is about -100 dB). If you're using digital out with Red Book content, you might be losing some data --IIRC, the Squeezebox DAC uses 24 bits, so if you turn it low enough, the Squeezebox has to start discarding bits. If you're using 24 bit hi-res content, you need 100% digital out to preserve all the music. The general recommendation is to use volume levels of at least 80-100 for critical listening." ...I'll post anything else on that one. -- WAD62 Cheers Will WAD62's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38506 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85691 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] If you can hear it, can you measure it?
magiccarpetride;611296 Wrote: > One thing not clear to me is why do people insist that our experiences > have nothing to do with reality? Aren't our experiences also reality? > Or, to put it more bluntly: what else is there other than our > experiences? The point I am trying to make is that the reality (in the sense you are using it) or otherwise of your experiences is not relevant to the question of whether your experiences are significant data to be accorded much weight in assessing the probability that the changes in your audio system, to which you attribute causal responsibility for your experiences, will if repeated by others consistently lead to similar experiences by them. It is your attribution of causal responsibility for your experiences (and hence the likelihood that others will predictably repeat them) which, rightly or wrongly, some people are inclined to doubt. It does not in any way help to insist that your experiences must be real just because they are your experiences; it is beside the point. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85681 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
magiccarpetride;611427 Wrote: > This is a very good reply. Spot on, and I couldn't agree with you more. > > I was angling toward the view that people who are into digital > streaming are way more interested in whether something actually works, > than HOW does it work. Like, Soundcheck's mods. If they work for me, > great, I personally would not be interested in spending even a moment > of my time trying to understand how do these mods work. I'm only too > happy to consume them. > > And if those mods don't work for me, I couldn't care less at to why. To > me, such information is completely unnecessary. Why? Because I'm not an > audio engineer. We need to establish: 1) do the mods work 2) if so, how do they work Then we can move to step 3, which is: "utilize the knowledge gained during 1 and 2 above to build better stuff" It's great that YOU don't care how things work - but others do need/want to know and you need to respect their motivation just as much as you'd expect them to respect yours. It's not a questio of right or wrong, it's simply different strokes... This has nothing to do with digital per se - it is just as true for analogue. Mains cables anyone? Burn-in? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF x-dacv3/x-10/x-psu(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
