Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Has anyone had a problem with some wma files playing like they are in fast forward? The problem is with my touch and not the server since my squeezeebox radio plays them fine. -- pongagt pongagt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=50574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Dynamic Range day 16 march. Get active!
http://turnmeup.org/ find groups in your area!!! -- TheOctavist Vortexbox>SBT(stock)>>Forssell MDAC-2>>>Klein and Hummell 0300D Sota Sapphire/Lyra Kleos>>Bespoke Valve Phono Stage>>Mastersound Due Venti>>Link Audio K100 TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94090 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
SoX was not that hard to use , the hard part is to choose settings afaik as SoX is very flexible and probably can be used with anything but sane settings if you wan't . Thank you for suggested settings Preliminary the results are a null ( as expected ) I will convert some more files too try further Haven't picked the exact track to try to ab rigth now I 'm fumbling with my i pad casually just tapping somewhere in the playlist. To ab I would mass copy my chosen track and place each one in a folder of their own then I can have the same file name then I can build a playlist that I can shuffle and thus hide my own activities to myself. This will not go down perfectly as I know what I'm testing and already have an opinion so I'm biased even if I blind it . Ideally I should invite a friend and let him/her listen unknowingly of what's being tested . But the experience of actually trying on a lot of different tracks put things in perspective. I Recommend anyone else to try too :) but use SoX as it is very good, the paranoia risks are very low as it yields excellent results , I did a whole zoo of different transcodings but as the diff is very very small go for 24/96 ( 192 ) to 16/44.1 direct so you can try worst case . This is actually very much on topic , I you're unsure on what to think about the topic just try it for kicks. This way you can be sure to compare apples with apples commercial disc with the "same" music in different formats can be compromised. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Has anyone listened to the NAD C 390DD?
Phil Leigh;695347 Wrote: > That miska stuff is bollocks. he's using audacity plots to try to prove > his incorrect point. Audacity has major bugs int the way it renders > waveforms on screen. > If you put a real oscilloscope across a DAC you get to see the truth > and it doesn't look like ANY of his plots!!! > > A 10khz sine wave looks very fine to me coming out of my DAC, > regardless of sampling rate or bit depth (assuming that it's level is > NOT -90dB!) > > DACs don't have intelligence and don't make contextual judgements. They > just do what they do. > > > With a one bit symmetric waveform you can keep the bit on or turn it > off. If you keep it on for a few samples then off for the same number > of samples you have an approximation of a square wave ( which of course > the analogue parts of the DAC cannot reproduce properly because of > filter ringing). If you turn it alternately on or off for a single > sample you get the approximation of the sine wave...which the filter > will smooth... > > If you only have one bit there isn't really much else you can do with > it! - and the DAC cannot have any understanding of what you were trying > to do with it :-) I think we're agreeing again? LOL. -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94054 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] www.DynamicRange.de
FYI -- Turn Me Up! turnm...@turnmeup.org 16:54 (4 hours ago) to Darren Hello! It's that time of year again when we apply concerted effort and focus the world's attention on the state of the "Loudness Wars". We eagerly urge you join with us and help us promote... ===[ Dynamic Range Day - March 16, 2012 ]=== How can you get started? Review the details on our website and let those in your social networks know about it. Invite them to visit our website and learn more for themselves. This year is bigger and better than ever with meetups happening all over the planet and huge prizes for the most dynamic artists of the last year. Discover more on how to join in and raise awareness: http://TurnMeUp.org Thank you so much for your continued support of dynamic music! === Allen Wagner Chairman of the Board TurnMeUp! Bringing Back Dynamics. === 2651 Regalia Way Hollywood, FL 33026, USA -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192 downsampling when decoding at server side
JohnSwenson;694826 Wrote: > Actually I was thinking more about code than data. The assumption being > that a mainloop for processing PCM is probably a lot simpler than the > loop for processing flac, thus giving a higher probability of a cache > miss on the code. I haven't actually analyzed the code or run them > through a processor simulator etc so I don't know for sure. > > In a couple weeks I will have my new groundplane noise analyzer up and > running and I will be able to tell if there really is a difference > there. > I'm interested in people hearing this difference verses the difference of running the background process which is part of my blind tester app. As I said in that thread I can see the amount of time and frequency of running the idle process causing differences in power consumption of the cpu, but thus far I think there are any results showing this... -- Triode Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93970 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
Mnyb;695242 Wrote: > One thing caught my interest here: > > http://src.infinitewave.ca/ > > Many brand name name resamplers don't do a spotless job ?? The pictures are nice to watch but as mentioned before you´ll have a hard time to find even the worst resamplers tested there to sound wrong :) Something like the noise down 180dB isn´t exactly needed at all but most use the stopband so low becaus with todays processing power it comes easy. Saracon even uses more then these 180dB even but don´t expect any change especialy when we cut down to 16bit with this resampling. -- Wombat Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Has anyone listened to the NAD C 390DD?
darrenyeats;695330 Wrote: > Despite my doubts and musings yesterday, I don't think so. What is the > difference between a sine wave and a square wave at -90db in 16 bit? > None. A 16/44 DAC should smooth this analoguely (I think this sinc > function thingy is about this). A 24/96 DAC would upsample and > interpolate the data points of this tone into a smoother shape (because > the DAC assumes it's NOT a square wave - a square wave would require an > infinite series of harmonics yet we know the data is band limited to > satisfy Nyquist). > > Please see here: > > Darren That miska stuff is bollocks. he's using audacity plots to try to prove his incorrect point. Audacity has major bugs int the way it renders waveforms on screen. If you put a real oscilloscope across a DAC you get to see the truth and it doesn't look like ANY of his plots!!! A 10khz sine wave looks very fine to me coming out of my DAC, regardless of sampling rate or bit depth (assuming that it's level is NOT -90dB!) DACs don't have intelligence and don't make contextual judgements. They just do what they do. With a one bit symmetric waveform you can keep the bit on or turn it off. If you keep it on for a few samples then off for the same number of samples you have an approximation of a square wave ( which of course the analogue parts of the DAC cannot reproduce properly because of filter ringing). If you turn it alternately on or off for a single sample you get the approximation of the sine wave...which the filter will smooth... If you only have one bit there isn't really much else you can do with it! - and the DAC cannot have any understanding of what you were trying to do with it :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94054 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Has anyone listened to the NAD C 390DD?
Archimago;695323 Wrote: > If you feed a 16-bit computer generated -90dB undithered 'sine' wave, > you're essentially feeding into the DAC a 1kHz (in this case) 1-bit > *square* wave. This is exactly what the measurements show. > Despite my doubts and musings yesterday, I don't think so. What is the difference between a sine wave and a square wave at -90db in 16 bit? None. A 16/44 DAC should smooth this to a sine wave or an approximation analoguely (I think this sinc function thingy is about this). A 24/96 DAC would upsample and interpolate the data points of this tone into a smoothish sine wave shape (because in fact we can assume it's NOT a square wave - a square wave would require an infinite series of harmonics yet we know the data is band limited to satisfy Nyquist). Please see here: darrenyeats;695297 Wrote: > Phil, > See these posts: > Submitted by Miska on Sun, 02/12/2012 - 17:43. > Submitted by Miska on Mon, 02/13/2012 - 02:48. > Here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Why-2496-not-24192 > (search for 'miska') > Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94054 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Has anyone listened to the NAD C 390DD?
Stereophile did test the M2 http://www.stereophile.com/content/nad-m2-direct-digital-integrated-amplifier-measurements You miss something by not reading the hifi rags afterall It measures almost like a t DAC Wonder how the 390DD would score ? -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94054 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Has anyone listened to the NAD C 390DD?
Phil Leigh;695278 Wrote: > > Just to be crystal clear on this, when Stereophile talk about the 3 > voltage levels... they ARE talking about the AC voltages: > zero-crossing, peak and trough for a single bit representing the sine > wave. They are NOT talking about anything to do with "jagged" DC ladder > steps or anything like that - because with one bit going on or off there > would only be 2 DC values anyway (on or off) and those values do NOT > EXIST outside of the DAC chip/IV stage/Filter... so they can't be > measured by putting any kind of test equipment across the analogue > output of a DAC. > regards > Phil Hmmm, Phil, I'm curious what you said here. If you feed a 16-bit computer generated -90dB undithered 'sine' wave, you're essentially feeding into the DAC a 1kHz (in this case) 1-bit *square* wave. This is exactly what the measurements show. Since 24-bit DAC's have more dynamic range, they should reproduce the signal very cleanly and this is exactly what we see in good DAC's - clean square waves. Can this not be measured on the analogue output? If there continues to be alot of controversy over this, perhaps we should post a question for John Atkinson. -- Archimago Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94054 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Has anyone listened to the NAD C 390DD?
darrenyeats;695307 Wrote: > Yeah, you're probably right. > > You stated there should be no jagged waveforms in digital audio. And > actually that sounded sensible. So I expected to see a smoothed output > from these Stereophile plots...but I didn't! This was my initial > query. > > What didn't help was that I was stuck in a native 16/44 DAC paradigm > yesterday (brain burp) so I was questioning (wrongly) whether analogue > smoothing really happens. But I think we've got there in terms of > explaining the Stereophile results. > > A test of real 16/44 audio would have input a 16/44 file and the output > would look quite different to what they measured I think - more smooth. > > What they did is not representative of 16/44 audio but a test to see > how cleanly the DAC can deal with staircase type waveforms (with a > simulated resolution of 16 bits) in 24/96. > > You are quite right to say that no real music is encoded like that! And > I've actually agreed with most of your comments, which makes me think > we've been coming at it from different angles. > Darren OK - I think we are nearly at the agreeing tree... :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94054 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
sckramer;695217 Wrote: > I'll start uploading a few pics > > just start unsoldering 2 larger tabs & at the same time torqe the black > plastic housing off with pliers-- the LED will stay on the board-- take > that off next, also you can put this back together (its not destroyed) Thanks much sckramer, I will be trying this DIY today, hopefully my soldering skills are good enough for this. -- lake_eleven lake_eleven's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=48979 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Has anyone listened to the NAD C 390DD?
Phil Leigh;695305 Wrote: > Darren, > My head hurts... I think we are in a semantic loop :-) > Yeah, you're probably right. The confusion comes because you stated there should be no jagged waveforms in digital audio, something which I agree with I guess. So I expected to see a smoothed output from these Stereophile plots...but I didn't! This was my initial query. What didn't help was that I was stuck in a 16/44 DAC paradigm yesterday (my bad) but I think we've got there in terms of explaining the Stereophile results. Phil Leigh;695305 Wrote: > > What EXACTLY do you think that Stereophile fig 5 trace shows you? A test of real 16/44 audio would have input a 16/44 file and the output would look quite different to what they measured I think - more smooth. What they did is not representative of 16/44 audio but a test to see how cleanly the DAC can deal with staircase type waveforms (with a resolution of 16 bits) in 24/96. You are quite right to say that no real music is encoded like that! And I've actually agreed with most of your comments, which makes me think we've been coming at it from different angles. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94054 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Has anyone listened to the NAD C 390DD?
Darren, My head hurts... I think we are in a semantic loop :-) What EXACTLY do you think that Stereophile fig 5 trace shows you? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94054 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Has anyone listened to the NAD C 390DD?
Phil, See this post: Submitted by Miska on Sun, 02/12/2012 - 17:43 Here: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Why-2496-not-24192 Which shows graphically what I mean. Upsampling should make a big difference to the smoothness of the waveform - if the data points are interpolated intelligently. I expect to see smoothed waveforms out of DAC. From a native 16/44 DAC (my befuddlement yesterday) I expect to see analogue smoothing. From a 24 bit, high sample rate DAC I expect to see smoothing due to the upsampling (and analogue smoothing at that finer level but this would not be resolvable probably). You keep waving this away but I think it's a reasonable expectation. Phil Leigh;695278 Wrote: > erm... the sampling RATE won't make any difference to this... I think it will (see above) Phil Leigh;695278 Wrote: > > Presumably they use 16 bits for this test to represent redbook CD > replay into the DAC > Kind of, except I don't think it's exactly equivalent (see further below). Phil Leigh;695278 Wrote: > > Had they generated a 24-bit -90dB sine wave file, the result would > have looked VERY different :-) > Yes of course and they did do that. That is figure 6. Phil Leigh;695278 Wrote: > > Just to be crystal clear on this, when Stereophile talk about the 3 > voltage levels... they ARE talking about the AC voltages: > zero-crossing, peak and trough for a single bit representing the sine > wave. They are NOT talking about anything to do with "jagged" DC ladder > steps or anything like that - because with one bit going on or off there > would only be 2 DC values anyway (on or off) and those values do NOT > EXIST outside of the DAC chip/IV stage/Filter... so they can't be > measured by putting any kind of test equipment across the analogue > output of a DAC. > regards > Phil No. They measured at the analogue output. Hence my initial puzzlement about no smoothing. Phil Leigh;695278 Wrote: > > I wouldn't want to speculate too much on how Stereophile created their > test data, but as you can't easily record a perfect -90dB sine wave from > any analogue source... (too much noise!) my guess is they generated it > as a 16-bit wav test tone mathematically on a PC, which is easy enough > to do. > I proposed what they did in my last post. Please have a read again carefully: darrenyeats;695256 Wrote: > > Now I realise when Stereophile tested the 16 bit undithered waveform, > probably they used a file at the highest sampling rate and bit > depth...just mimicking a 16 bit waveform within it. So the DAC doesn't > treat it to any upsampling goodness...the customer wants a crude > staircase drawn in hi-rez, the customer gets just that. > IOW I think they created this 16 bit -90db 1kHz sine wave mathematically and placed it in a 24/96 file. It is already at the DAC's native bit depth and sample rate so no interpolation is attempted. The DAC tries to play (as near as possible) a staircase shaped wave which, as we know, is impossible to do exactly. Had they played an actual 16/44 file of the same amplitude, I expect it would have been smoothed. Which is my point. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94054 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Has anyone listened to the NAD C 390DD?
darrenyeats;695256 Wrote: > Guys, here is where I was going wrong! I was thinking about that 16 bit > waveform and then I was thinking in 16/44 DAC terms (I was sleep > deprived!) which should smooth it analoguely. > > Obviously these DACs are not 16/44. But, even after getting some sleep, > this morning I would expect an upsampling 24 bit DAC to smooth 16/44 > digitally. > > Now I realise when Stereophile tested the 16 bit undithered waveform, > probably they used a file at the highest sampling rate and bit > depth...just mimicking a 16 bit waveform within it. So the DAC doesn't > treat it to any upsampling goodness...the customer wants a crude > staircase drawn in hi-rez, the customer gets just that. > Darren > > Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk erm... the sampling RATE won't make any difference to this... I wouldn't want to speculate too much on how Stereophile created their test data, but as you can't easily record a perfect -90dB sine wave from any analogue source... (too much noise!) my guess is they generated it as a 16-bit wav test tone mathematically on a PC, which is easy enough to do. Presumably they use 16 bits for this test to represent redbook CD replay into the DAC. Had they generated a 24-bit -90dB sine wave file, the result would have looked VERY different :-) When a 16-bit file is presented to a 24-bit DAC - as we know from our Squeezeboxes - the "lowest" 8-bits are zero-filled (i.e. ignored). Therefore, the resulting test result waveform would look the same if the Benchmark was a 16 or 24 bit DAC... there's still only 1 bit "wiggling around in value". Actually, I can't see the point of performing this -90dB test on a real 24-bit DAC... not sure what they are trying to test. Surely they should be doing a -144dB test? In modern real-world terms this is meaningless because real-world 16-bit PCM streams are downsampled from 24-bit masters with dithering of some form or other which obfuscates the "problem" in the lowest bit by pseudo-randomizing its value. Bear in mind that no actual music files will EVER have consecutive sample values that look like part of a -90dB sine wave !!!. Just to be crystal clear on this, when Stereophile talk about the 3 voltage levels... they ARE talking about the AC voltages: zero-crossing, peak and trough for a single bit representing the sine wave. They are NOT talking about anything to do with "jagged" DC ladder steps or anything like that - because with one bit going on or off there would only be 2 DC values anyway (on or off) and those values do NOT EXIST outside of the DAC chip/IV stage/Filter... so they can't be measured by putting any kind of test equipment across the analogue output of a DAC. regards Phil -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94054 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Has anyone listened to the NAD C 390DD?
finnbrodersen;695239 Wrote: > the 390DD is indeed a very interesting amp. Like a poor mans (i.e. me) > M2 > > check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jJR-8sv1pM for more info > > and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sksqoz1KXGQ and > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxXIqDsIzgs for an introduction to the > M2 Nice videos a truly interesting assortments of amplifiers ,these new NAD's If I where in for passive speakers I would not hesitate trying either M2 or C390DD . Seing that the CC390 has a cheaper chassi and a bit less power to make it more economical would make it perform very well for the money this is NAD as i remember them. The exclusive high end look cost more than we want to know sometimes. A NAD should be drab grey and cheesy :) that's the point no money wasted on bling bling happy to se some more development in in class D especially as we have to reduce the carbon footprint . if you analyze music you quickly see that the avarage power is a couple of watts but your typical heavy duty class A/B amp is dumping >100-200 watts or similar as heat all the time . This means that all amps will work this way eventually so it's time to take sound-quality seriously , hopefully others follow and compete . what they do fudge a bit is the damping factor at higher frequency's this is the weakness of an amp with an output filter . otherwise the specs are in a context with most of the conditions so they are not just marketting numbers. except damping that is spec below 200Hz To low damping can slightly modify frequency response and miss-align passive crossovers a bit performance may be slightly more speaker dependent than a traditional amp . http://www.rane.com/note145.html -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94054 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Has anyone listened to the NAD C 390DD?
Guys, here is where I was going wrong! I was thinking about that 16 bit waveform and then I was thinking in 16/44 DAC terms (I was sleep deprived!) which should smooth it analoguely. Obviously these DACs are not 16/44. But, I would expect an upsampling 24 bit DAC to smooth 16/44 digitally. I'm guessing when Stereophile tested the 16 bit undithered waveform they used a file at the highest sampling rate and bit depth...just mimicking a 16 bit waveform within it. So the DAC doesn't treat it to any upsampling goodness...it assumes the customer wants a hi-rez stair case, the customer gets a hi-rez stair case. Darren Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94054 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
Update I used with SoX with 2 suggested comandlines The -v option was in my case not really necessary only 1 out 5 files complained about clipping and it was at most 16 samples so it should be used on case by case basis. Unless you *cough* produce loudness war music but then you won't come here and harass poor old audiophiles about sound-quality *cough* ;) You would roll in $$$ blowing the ears of the young generation One thing caught my interest here: http://src.infinitewave.ca/ Many brand name name resamplers don't do a spotless job ?? No wonder there is some fuzz about it and many engineers get third party plugins with better performance , A little surprised that the big names in DAW don't care more . But maybe it's examples from older versions . But anyway it's just math why don't do it rigth . This also again point out SoX as one of the better choices actually better than what is used professionally in some cases, and that should cure some hypochondria about the resampling inside LMS . Some people claims that re-sampling 192 > 96 with LMS/flac/SoX sounds "bad" This is about as BS as it can be. And constantly whines about that the bad bad naugthy squeezebox only supports 96kHz :) I'm going to listen some more on these files with my crappy hifi that actually only supports 96k, (192k would be re-sampled at the input) , the designer thought it was a total waste of power to run all the DRC and surround modes and digital xovers at 192k . -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Has anyone listened to the NAD C 390DD?
the 390DD is indeed a very interesting amp. Like a poor mans (i.e. me) M2 check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jJR-8sv1pM for more info -- finnbrodersen Some version of SBServer running on a HP EX490 home server SBReceiver --> NAD C162+C272 --> DALI IKON 6 (let's call it MidFi) finnbrodersen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17360 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94054 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
