Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
Phil Leigh wrote: > I feel so sorry for Triode. [..] > > This sub-forum was hijacked by charlatans and fools a long time back. > [..] > > Phil +1 "Toxic" is how I would describe this (sub-) forum.. Audio Bling's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=47703 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Lyngdorf: Digital Analogue / Analogue Digital
Just found this topic. I know it's a little old, but still thought that I might get some help here. I'm thinking of using my SB Touch with Welborne PSU with a Lyngdorf TDAI 2200 with RP. My speakers are the KEF Reference 201.2 books. Since I normally have to move a lot I thought that it would be sth really practical. I know that Phil uses (used) Inguz, but I'm not sure I'm quite ready for that kind of work, especially because a one-box-system sounds interesting to me (though I'd be very tempted if I found a DPA-1 and drove it directly into an amp). The fact that I wouldn't have to use too many cables would probably create a high WAF. Could you guys tell me how your results have been so far? Is there anything similar that might be cheaper and as-good-as (or even better) on the market? I'm a little unsure about the amp itself, but am very tempted to give it a try. Fact is, that I won't be able to audtion if I decide to go for one. Hope you guys can help me out. Regards André PS: it seems to me that there is no D/A conversion in the TDAI 2200. Keeping everything digital from beginning to end sounds like the best way to go. The only real conversion would be A/D (with optional module), isn't it? reverendo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32850 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=58617 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter as server (digital outs)- a few basic questions
I recall a thread where Sean addressed this issue, saying the digital XLR output on the Transporter was an afterthought, and not particularly well implemented (paraphrasing from memory). IIRC, he said the BNC output was the best sounding, a true 75 OHM connection; if the CAry supports BNC i would try that, ideally w/o an RCA-BNC adapter. depending on the source, i've had some issues with the transporter toslink *input*, but i don't believe i've used the toslink output. I have my transporter connected via the RCA SPDIF out, into a Meridian G61, and it sounds very good indeed. netchord's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21002 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95476 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
SBGK wrote: > I am still interested in understanding why the usb irq is being called > 2000 times a second, is this something that can be reduced or is it > dependent on the usb device used ? I don't think it can be helping sound > quality. > Not having interrupts would have a dramatic impact on sound quality - no sound! The ehci hardware will generate interrupts one per ms. I'm not sure if these get double counted or if there is actually two per ms, but the linux kernel doesn't change the default interrupt threshold which is to rate limit interrupts to one per ms. I'm completely missing the assertion that interrupts will impact sound quality though - this is cpu activity necessary to make the device work. Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter as server (digital outs)- a few basic questions
I'd like to get some help understanding how various digital inputs are designed so as to reduce jitter, etc. The Cary 306 has a clock buffer that reclocks the incoming PCM signal (assume coax or AES). The receiver is a Cirrus Logic CS8416. There is no RAM buffer as there is when a disc is played. I'm told that the complete circuit design around the chips and input path are proprietary, but have been designed for optimal sound quality. I'd simply that I'd like to understand -just- enough in order to compare the input designs on the 306 to, say, the Playback Designs MPS-5. I've sent a request for more info on the MPS-5, so we'll see what they say. Hope some of you can provide insight. I suppose the bottom line is that I'd like to learn more about the differences in the signal path when coming from an input versus the path taken when playing a CD in the transport. jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95476 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
adamdea wrote: > Leaving that to one side, have you been able to make any measurements of > the S/PDIF out which could demonstrate and quantify the effect of the > EDO changes (and other mods). I was surprised to read on a PFM thread a > post from John Westlake saying that the S/PDIF out of the touch had very > high jitter (in the nanoseconds but obviously varying between the peak > to peak and the RMS figure.) I am fairly familiar with the J test which > is used to measure jitter in a dac,.but i am not sure how jitter (or > noise) is measured on the S/PDIF out. AFAIK such measurements are not > often published either by manufacturers professional modifiers or > reviewers. It strikes me that it would provide some middle ground in the > current "do tweaks make any difference to an external dac divide?" if it > could at least be shown that positive changes in the S/PDIF out could be > achieved. JohnW retracted that statement later on in the PFM - http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1581854&postcount=5 Triode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
Triode wrote: > Yes... I'm baffled by my posts here :), but its why I wanted to split > this discussion from the thread on the Touch forum which is about > functionality not subjective impressions of sound quality. > > I can believe EDO impacts sounds quality, but didn't want to claim it > initially exactly because of the direction this thread has taken I > believe the main reason there is an impact for this for spdif is that > turning off the internal dac means there is less audio related signal on > the power rails (should be none!). However this also leads discussion > of cpu activity related noise which can be changed by whatever processes > run which is the ongoing debate here. In this second case I stand by > the belief that unless the code which is executed to move audio packets > around is changed in some way then I don't see it impacting sound > quality. Changing things which I can show does not impact the alsa > settings or the code executed to copy samples around is extremely > unlikely to impact sound quality (at best it impacts the content of > un-accessed memory locations!) You have done marvellous things for the community, and you've been kind enough to make it open source. What more can one ask for? While I can certainly buy into the explanation that identical code base can end up being executed in a variety of different fashions depending on other more or less spurious configuration factors (I make my living by writing software, so I know that to be the fact), the math behind proving/disproving that such differences can make audible change is too intricate, and the paperwork is simply overwhelming. I am personally capable of hearing the differences between various versions, but I'm not gonna be a stickler about it. What I'm doing, and what I think all others who are hearing the differences could be doing, is hoarding various versions. That way, should it so happen that my SBT gets upgraded to some less desirable version, I could always go back and override it from one of the more desirable versions I've squirrelled away. That way, we won't be impeding your work (i.e. you should not be tying yourself into a knot trying to appease and placate the twitchy ones). magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
I feel so sorry for Triode. He is trying his best to advance the state of the art. I suggest he stops asking for opinions and instead uses some proper tools like ADM. Put some science back into the process. There are NO golden ears here. Our great advances In technology were NOT made by people with subjective opinions. This sub-forum was hijacked by charlatans and fools a long time back. They know who they are. I no longer have anything to contribute here. It's been (mostly) fun ... Have a nice life Ciao, Phil Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best server for Transporter
pkfox wrote: > Would they house a 1 Tb drive though ? I want everything in one box. Yes, many netbooks employ 2.5" drives. Not sure how many come with 1 TB though. You'd likely have to buy a 1 TB drive separate and install after the fact. Pneumonic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10091 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95477 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
Soundman wrote: > I did not post here for a long time because the threads often degenerate > into useless discussions, based on subjective impressions and claims, > that very often are not supported by facts. This 0.6/0.7-discussion is a > very good example... > > Since you claim that noone reports that both sound the same: Well, I > definitely do! They do sound the same indeed! I cannot hear even the > tiniest difference in SQ between the two. And so far none of my friends > can hear a difference between 0.6/0.7 either. We do hear the differences > that are caused by EDO and TT3, but it really doesen't matter wether we > use EDO 0.6 or 0.7! But as long as you desperately *want* to hear a > difference, you probably will... > > And I think that Triode is a very patient man who really actively helps > and tries to solve problems. Therefore saying "shame you can't hear the > difference youself triode" is really going way too far... Try to test it > with some neutral people who don't know anything about it and who are > not in this forum, and do not tell them what the test is about. I'm > pretty convinced that they won't hear any difference either... > > @Triode: Thank you very much for your great work and for your limitless > patience! thanks for your post, it doesn't help those that can hear a difference. If triode wants to develop the EDO mods further without paying attention to comments in his sound impression thread then that is fine. All I am concerned with now is that I will be able to revert to 0.6 should I need to rebuild the Touch. I think the sound from EDO is good enough and am not looking to use dsd so don't think I will need further EDO versions. It should be remembered that triode is also saying there can be no benefit in using large buffers, yet a number of people (including MCR) posting on this thread say they can hear a smoother more vinyl like sound with larger buffers , impossible says triode. impossible says the choir. SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
SBGK wrote: > shame you can't hear the difference youself triode, otherwise we > wouldn't be having these navel gazing discussions. > ... > is anyone reporting that 0.6 and 0.7 sound the same ? no, I wonder why. > ... > I did not post here for a long time because the threads often degenerate into useless discussions, based on subjective impressions and claims, that very often are not supported by facts. This 0.6/0.7-discussion is a very good example... Since you claim that noone reports that both sound the same: Well, I definitely do! They do sound the same indeed! I cannot hear even the tiniest difference in SQ between the two. And so far none of my friends can hear a difference between 0.6/0.7 either. We do hear the differences that are caused by EDO and TT3, but it really doesen't matter wether we use EDO 0.6 or 0.7! But as long as you desperately *want* to hear a difference, you probably will... And I think that Triode is a very patient man who really actively helps and tries to solve problems. Therefore saying "shame you can't hear the difference youself triode" is really going way too far... Try to test it with some neutral people who don't know anything about it and who are not in this forum, and do not tell them what the test is about. I'm pretty convinced that they won't hear any difference either... @Triode: Thank you very much for your great work and for your limitless patience! Soundman's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Triode's USB 24/192 plug in - sound quality impressions
Triode wrote: > Yes... I'm baffled by my posts here :), but its why I wanted to split > this discussion from the thread on the Touch forum which is about > functionality not subjective impressions of sound quality. > > I can believe EDO impacts sounds quality, but didn't want to claim it > initially exactly because of the direction this thread has taken I > believe the main reason there is an impact for this for spdif is that > turning off the internal dac means there is less audio related signal on > the power rails (should be none!). However this also leads discussion > of cpu activity related noise which can be changed by whatever processes > run which is the ongoing debate here. In this second case I stand by > the belief that unless the code which is executed to move audio packets > around is changed in some way then I don't see it impacting sound > quality. Changing things which I can show does not impact the alsa > settings or the code executed to copy samples around is extremely > unlikely to impact sound quality (at best it impacts the content of > un-accessed memory locations!) I think it is sensible to attempt to tie in the possibility of sound quality improvements to some verifiable factor ie the executed code. However it happens to be the case that most of the people who are most interested in the subjective impact of these twaeks seem to be ultra-subjectivists who believe that there is no truth beyond their subjective impressions. It is obvious that *if* code changes produce an impact on the sound of a competent dac connected to the SBT then it would be likely to be a very subtle effect. Anyone who is not a radical subjectivist knows that there is a lot of "noise" in the subjective response. I am afraid that the chances of picking out the signal (if it exists) within this noise is very low. I think you should stick to your guns of at least insisting that evidence is based on some change in the executed code, but I am afriad that your constituents are not interested in any conceivable limit on the concusiveness of their subjective impressions. I admire your courage and patience, but I am afraid that a falling out along the lines previously seen with TT 3.0 is inevitable if you propose to include any element of objective rationality in your design agenda. Leaving that to one side, have you been able to make any measurements of the S/PDIF out which could demonstrate and quantify the effect of the EDO changes (and other mods). I was surprised to read on a PFM thread a post from John Westlake saying that the S/PDIF out of the touch had very high jitter (in the nanoseconds but obviously varying between the peak to peak and the RMS figure.) I am fairly familiar with the J test which is used to measure jitter in a dac,.but i am not sure how jitter (or noise) is measured on the S/PDIF out. AFAIK such measurements are not often published either by manufacturers professional modifiers or reviwers. It strikes me that it would provide some middle ground in the current "do tweaks make any difference to an external dac divide?" if it could at least be shown that positive changes in the S/PDIF out could be achieved. adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94855 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best server for Transporter
mlsstl wrote: > Yes, no problem to install the hardware -- I think it was 4 screws to > take the cover off. The RAM chips can only pop into their slots one way > and it was a couple of more screws to mount the drive plus plugging in > the cables. > > I used an external USB CD/DVD drive for the OS install and I believe you > can also install the OS from a USB thumb drive. I rip my music on > another PC so didn't need a permanently installed drive on the > Vortexbox. Currently installed RAM is 2GB and the unit seems to run > fine, though you can go to 4GB on the Foxcon barebones unit. Hi again, I'm pretty much sold on a Foxconn unit now but looking at the myriad of hard drives available I'm lost again, what do i need to look for ? Ok the size is obvious and the unit only accepts Sata II but what about al the other options rpm,cache etc... pkfox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5346 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95477 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best server for Transporter
Pneumonic wrote: > These days you can grab name brand netbooks for under $200 that are not > only whisper quiet and non obtrusive but which also easily run LMS. I > use a couple of Acer's in dedicated applications and couldn't be > happier. Would they house a 1 Tb drive though ? I want everything in one box. pkfox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5346 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95477 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best server for Transporter
mlsstl wrote: > Yes, no problem to install the hardware -- I think it was 4 screws to > take the cover off. The RAM chips can only pop into their slots one way > and it was a couple of more screws to mount the drive plus plugging in > the cables. > > I used an external USB CD/DVD drive for the OS install and I believe you > can also install the OS from a USB thumb drive. I rip my music on > another PC so didn't need a permanently installed drive on the > Vortexbox. Currently installed RAM is 2GB and the unit seems to run > fine, though you can go to 4GB on the Foxcon barebones unit. When you say you don't need a permanently connected drive do you mean CD/DVD ?, I'm definitely leaning towards the Foxconn pkfox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5346 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95477 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best server for Transporter
JJZolx wrote: > How much storage space do you need? > > I ask because if you get a tiny nettop type system then you may be > forced to use an external hard drive (or drives). That's not a terrible > thing, but the extra cabling and wall wart can be messy and it somewhat > defeats the purpose of using such a small box for the computer itself. > If you need a lot of storage space then it means you'll have to use 3.5" > drives, since 2.5" drives (which are quieter, cooler, a little more > expensive) are currently limited to 1 TB in size (about 2800-3000 CDs > encoded in FLAC). If you do need one or more 3.5" drives then IMO it's > best to get a case that can hold them internally. I think 1 Tb would suffice my current collection is ~ 350gb and these days I don't rip anywhere near as much new stuff as I used to pkfox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5346 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95477 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best server for Transporter
RonM wrote: > I have a Fit-PC2, and have been using it exclusively as a music server > for almost three years. It's on 24/7 except when I go on holiday or the > power goes off. It feeds a Transporter via ethernet, as well as 2 Booms > and a Duet via wifi, in various places at various times. > > It's an excellent piece of kit, extremely well made, very durable. I > don't think you'd need one of the newer models, the Fit2 (like mine) is > still available and is just fine for LMS. It can do a lot more, LMS > barely impacts on its cycles. > > I bought mine diskless and installed a 500gb 2.5" drive -- completely > foolproof, just slides into place. You then need to install an OS, > though -- you can get a unit with Linux pre-installed, but the drive > size is limited. I had a spare XP licence available, and used a cheap > external CD drive (that I already had) to install. > > Under normal conditions I use it headless (without direct connection to > a monitor or keyboard) -- it's networked into my home network, and I > access it using UltraVNC (free) viewer (which allows "remote" control. > I put that in quotes because the Fit is sitting beside my main computer > monitor, looking dwarfish -- it's not directly connected to the monitor > and keyboard, but it could be and sometimes is when I need to do > something substantial -- but it's been many months since I last did > that. > > Highly recommended. > > Ron All sounds good, as long as it will run Linux its in the frame. pkfox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5346 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95477 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Best server for Transporter
sachadog wrote: > Hi > If you are UK based, have a look at Tranquilpc. website. > They manufacture fanless small home servers and fit drives to your > requirements. > I use a T7 Home Server running Microsoft Windows Home Server Version 1. > It has been updated by Tranquil and has performed extremely well for me. > It is small and sits on a shelf in my office. It uses about 14-28 Watts > of power, dependent on what you are using it for. > I am not connected to the company; but I can say I am very happy with my > server. Thanks I will check everybody's recommendations. pkfox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5346 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=95477 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
