Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
browellm wrote: > Nah, everything's released on vinyl now. Honestly, check it out on > Amazon. I've bought hundreds of new releases. Serious classical has not been released on LP since 1990, for very good reason. StephenPG's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=48249 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Archimago wrote: > 3. We as audiophiles/music lovers lose our "right" to use any DAC we > choose if we decide to accept Meridian's scheme and -control-... Ooops, > I mean their benevolent "-authentication-" with a friendly and funky lit > LED to remind you of the "privilege". :-) If only Meridian could change their name to Apple. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
browellm wrote: > Nah, everything's released on vinyl now. Honestly, check it out on > Amazon. I've bought hundreds of new releases. Not to pick a fight but your knowledge of jazz is rather limited. For example the group Mostly Other People Do the Killing has no vinyl available but plenty of CDs and downloads, the same is true for J.D. Allen and countless others. Plus the vinyl is way more expensive and, in the case of most jazz releases, offers no better dynamic range than the CD. Plus I haven't yet figured out how to play vinyl on my Squeezeboxes :) Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
R1200CL wrote: > To me the possibility to stream hi-res is the main advantage with MQA. > You may say that could be done without MQA, but since it's only is going > to be offered via MQA, I'm fine with that. > > I'm more skeptical to the sonic benefits of older 16 bit material that > do not exist in better master than the redbook format. I also understand > that there is at least 3 ways to implement MQA on those recordings. (as > told on 'Audiostream' > (http://www.audiostream.com/comment/511791#comment-511791)) > Then we may also apply if the A/D chip is known. So the SQ may not be > that much better. I may buy an Explorer2 to verify. (Just have to wait > until it actually can decode MQA) > > Those few hi-res I've purchased from HD-Tracks did sound better than CD > to me. So I'm expecting MQA based on hi -res masters to sound better, at > least if you have good enough stereo. So if I get hi-res streaming on > today's subscription, I do welcome MQA. > > There is also something called MQA Studio, which I'm not sure how differ > from normal MQA, but I guess it is related to recordings done by MQA > certified equipment and quality processing. If old recordings can be > remastered to MQA studio is also something I don't know. > > So I would like to understand all the different MQA encoding options > better, and if there is planned a way to tell us which process is used. > At the moment all I know is different lights for MQA and MQA Studio. > This based on the Explorer2 user manual and 'datasheet' > (https://www.meridian-audio.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Explorer2M-ds.pdf). > > > When Tidal start with MQA sometime later this year, we may know more, > but we will not be told anything before that. That is a fact. Like it or > not. > > It surprises me a bit that Hifi journalists don't ask more technical > questions, like those mention. The only good thing they have been able > to discover is, if patient you will at some time get SW MQA, and MQA > must be adjusted to your DAC chip. Default DAC profiles is not allowed. > As we noticed with the Auralic mess. > Still I think these different decoder options should be clarified > better, and also if it is technical possible to implement in equipment > with room correction. > > And why do we not see any interview with the recording companies? > Without their implementation MQA is DOA. > > Well they did start to make TV without 4K content, so maybe MQA has the > same approach :D Many good points there - some more nuances like what "MQA Studio" means vs. just vanilla "MQA", importance of label participation, generic DAC settings regarding Auralic (disingenuous IMO because if you make the minimum samplerate to 192kHz for the DAC, who cares what the filters look like? Way outside of audible range unless you really had a terrible incompetent DAC!). Ultimately I think all we got here is this: 1. Meridian wows the "audiophile" with a fancy DSP supposedly to lower impulse response graphs. This part is audible as I listened with my ABX. Note that this could have been implemented with any incoming stream as demonstrated with 16/44 "DAT". The reality is that this DSP could be implemented at the studio level if they wanted... 2. The scheme happens to include this "encapsulation" packaging to sell to Internet streamers. Of course the process limits everything to dithered 16-bits. And of course all that information above 22/24kHz is lossy compressed (at best subtle if you believe ultrasonics add something). 3. We as audiophiles lose our "right" to use any DAC we choose if we decide to accept Meridian's scheme and -control-... Ooops, I mean their benevolent "-authentication-" with a friendly and funky lit LED to remind you of the "privilege". :-) I don't know how well Dolby TrueHD is doing in 2016 but I do believe it was losing out to DTS-HD Master Audio on Blu-rays already back in 2012. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
ralphpnj wrote: > These days it seems that only a handful of popular music recordings are > available on vinyl. Nah, everything's released on vinyl now. Honestly, check it out on Amazon. I've bought hundreds of new releases. Modwright Transporter/SBT/SBR/Boom http://www.last.fm/user/browellm browellm's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14260 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
browellm wrote: > Just buy a record player. You'll get better post production and more > dynamic range on most new releases, ironically because of the > limitations of the cutting equipment. darrenyeats wrote: > Too much truth in that. These days it seems that only a handful of popular music recordings are available on vinyl. Most other musical genres are only available as CDs or digital downloads. However most other musical genres don't suffer has much from the loudness wars. There's plenty of new jazz and classical releases with excellent and very natural dynamic ranges. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
I really wonder if some 16bit noise-shaped 64kHz could really have been something new. I think to remember that with a samplingrate around 60kHz people like Weiss and J.D. Johnston think even all theoretical hearing limitations are reached. With 64kHz samplingrate noise-shaping should be able to reach more than 130dB in the audible band. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
browellm wrote: > Just buy a record player. You'll get better post production and more > dynamic range on most new releases, ironically because of the > limitations of the cutting equipment. Too much truth in that. Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/ SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Just buy a record player. You'll get better post production and more dynamic range on most new releases, ironically because of the limitations of the cutting equipment. Modwright Transporter/SBT/SBR/Boom http://www.last.fm/user/browellm browellm's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14260 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Not lately :D And I've stopped purchase HD tracks, as I found it strange they could sell me hi res of recordings that most likely never was recorded i more than 16/44.1. I have a Norah Jones that I find quite nice. (And as said, I have very few HD-tracks). If I could purchase Adele 25 in hi-res, I may do, but I guess it will some time be available on Tidal. R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
R1200CL wrote: > > Those few hi-res I've purchased from HD-Tracks did sound better than CD > to me. So I'm expecting MQA based on hi -res masters to sound better, at > least if you have good enough stereo. So if I get hi-res streaming on > today's subscription, I do welcome MQA. > You are happy about MQA, you hear HD-Tracks to sound better as CD and Tidal on your Touch sounds hetter as CD? http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-music-downloads-and-streaming/tidal-high-res-mqa-news-26734/index7.html#post500856 This comes over a bit emotional. Did you challenge these findings? Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Julf wrote: > As I have been pointing out, HDTracks is a great double-blind test. Many > of their early offerings (especially earlier on) were upsampled from > 44.1 kHz material - but seems nobody really detected that by listening, > only by looking at the spectrograms. > > There is also the issue of comparing apples with apples - many of the > HDTracks offerings are slightly different masterings compared to the > CDs, so hearing a difference is probably not a result of the sample > rate. > > > > That would assume that the journalists understand technology :) I've noticed the thing with different masters for different sample rates . You simply cant compare with the CD or CD layer . In the cases where i have used taken HD tracks album ot Itrax downloads and dowsampled them myself I hear no difference . But as noticed HD tracks can sound different . Sometimes it's because of a much better master ! That have happened . Sometimes it's just slightly different sometimes not at all sometimes one is simply louder than the other. It's more or less random they do rarely present the pedigree of their source . It is not the sample rate that makes the difference , wonder if Archimago still has his test files from the blindtest we did a couple of years ago ( that was fun a lot of people participated ) ? The fun part with HD tracks is when do we know that they have a superior master ? We don't that's the problem . Sometimes the early 90's cd can be the best source as the typical "remaster" done >2000 have the loudness war dynamic compression and othe silly stuff and that's what the label pushes out . And what version will the streaming services provide us with ? They don't know as they don't the heavy lifting of building thier catalog themself . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Julf wrote: > That would assume that the journalists understand technology :) It's the 21st century and we call outright lairs and thieves politicians and journalists. Sad, very sad. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
R1200CL wrote: > Those few hi-res I've purchased from HD-Tracks did sound better than CD > to me. As I have been pointing out, HDTracks is a great double-blind test. Many of their early offerings (especially earlier on) were upsampled from 44.1 kHz material - but seems nobody really detected that by listening, only by looking at the spectrograms. There is also the issue of comparing apples with apples - many of the HDTracks offerings are slightly different masterings compared to the CDs, so hearing a difference is probably not a result of the sample rate. > It surprises me a bit that Hifi journalists don't ask more technical > questions, like those mention. That would assume that the journalists understand technology :) "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
To me the possibility to stream hi-res is the main advantage with MQA. You may say that could be done without MQA, but since it's only is going to be offered via MQA, I'm fine with that. I'm more skeptical to the sonic benefits of older 16 bit material that do not exist in better master than the redbook format. I also understand that there is at least 3 ways to implement MQA on those recordings. (as told on Audiostream) Then we may also apply if the A/D chip is known. So the SQ may not be that much better. I may buy an Explorer2 to verify. (Just have to wait until it actually can decode MQA) Those few hi-res I've purchased from HD-Tracks did sound better than CD to me. So I'm expecting MQA based on hi -res masters to sound better, at least if you have good enough stereo. There is also something called MQA Studio, which I'm not sure how differ from normal MQA, but I guess it is related to recordings done by MQA certified equipment and quality processing. If old recordings can be remastered to MQA studio is also something I don't know. So I would like to understand all the different MQA encoding options better, and if there is planned a way to tell us which process is used. At the moment all I know is different lights for MQA and MQA Studio. When Tidal start with MQA sometime later this year, we may know more, but we will not be told anything before that. It surprises me a bit that Hifi journalists don't ask more technical questions, like those mention. The only good thing they have been able to discover is, if patient you will at some time get SW MQA, and MQA must be adjusted to your DAC chip. Default DAC profiles is not allowed. As we noticed with the Auralic mess. Still I think these different decoder options should be clarified better, and also if it is technical possible to implement in equipment with room correction. And why do we not see any interview with the recording companies? Without their implementation MQA is DOA. Well the did start to make TV without 4K content, so maybe MQA has the same approach :D R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
ralphpnj wrote: > I fully agree with you but what really disturbs me is how easily so many > audiophiles fall for this nonsense. Audiophiles are a very discerning bunch. They will only fall for this kind of thing if it comes from one of their anointed bunch of manufacturers: Linn, Naim, Meridian, Wadia, Krell, etc. If Microsoft or Sony had come up with MQA, audiophiles would have laughed at it. Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Archimago wrote: > Rather the lack of critical thinking is of greater concern... And unfortunately that is in no way limited to audio :( > Having said that, who knows, maybe we're just jaded and battle weary > from the few "extremist subjective audiophiles" who also tend to be very > vocal on forums... and the reality is that Meridian already realizes the > gig's up when it comes to actually achieving significant penetration > with this scheme. Good point. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
