Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] USB Cables

[Archimago]

chill wrote: 
> Maybe Archimago is part of the conspiracy.

Yes. It's a money-saving conspiracy :D



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] BLIND TEST INVITE: Do digital audio players sound different?

[Archimago]

cliveb wrote: 
> Had a read of them and no surprises - most people finding it difficult
> to tell any significant difference.
> 
> What I found most interesting was the demographic split. The younger
> participants found the track with less dynamic range to be the most
> revealing, while the older ones picked the tracks with more dynamic
> range. The youngsters also seemed to slightly prefer the iPhone whereas
> the oldies liked the Oppo and Sony players. To me this seems to indicate
> that what you grow up with is a greater factor in perceived quality than
> the intrinsic character of the sound. Nurture more significant than
> nature, as it were.

Hi Clive,
Yup. I found this interesting and wasn't quite expecting these findings
either until I noticed for some reason, the iPhone preference came
primarily from the <40 year olds for some reason. 

The more I've looked and considered the hi-fi hobby, the more the
importance of what happens behind the scenes during production becomes.
Loud, dynamically compressed, distorted sounds have become the norm of
what younger generations listen to. While there has always been some
"studio magic" in all our albums, and nobody really thinks studio are
supposed to sound "live", the loss of a more dynamic, "natural" sound
probably does over time "program" our brains to think and feel
different...

You never know about humans ;), maybe the pendulum eventually swings
back and at some point people might long for a change to something not
so loud and synthetic.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] BLIND TEST INVITE: Do digital audio players sound different?

[Archimago]

wl1 wrote: 
> I thought I took screen shots of my responses - but I can’t find them. 
> D’oh.  Do I assume there is no way to get you to resend my response now
> the device ps are known?  Is this possibles?  PM here?

Hi! Do you remember parts of what you entered like your equipment list?
PM me and I'll look in the database.

Folks the Listener Results are out :-).



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] BLIND TEST INVITE: Do digital audio players sound different?

[Archimago]

Hey guys. Thanks for the participation!

Here are the devices "unblinded".

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/05/blind-test-results-part-1-do-digital.html

Will post discussions and analysis of the results in future blog
installments :).



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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] BLIND TEST INVITE: Do digital audio players sound different?

[Archimago]

Greetings Squeezebox Audiophiles ;-). Apologies for not being around as
much these days...

Here's a question for the audiophiles... Do CD/digital players
converting 16/44.1 sound the same/different? The real question I suspect
may be "how different"!

When I came across a post on the 'Steve Hoffman Forum initially last
year'
(https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/poll-do-you-think-that-different-cd-players-have-their-own-sonic-signature.748490/)
and the ~90%:1% result, it got me thinking about doing a blind test to
see if I can gather some real-world data using my hi-res ADC.

Come and try the "Blind Test": *'INTERNET BLIND TEST: Do digital audio
players sound different? (Playing 16/44.1 music.)'
(https://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/01/internet-blind-test-do-digital-audio.html)*

4 "blinded" devices to listen to from different classes, 4 sample
excerpts to try. Which device(s) sound best? Is there a big difference?
Lemme know! It might affirm your opinion, or maybe you'll be surprised
by your results...

Test closes on *April 30, 2019*. Plenty of time to listen and let me
know. As usual, once the test closes, I'll let you guys know which
devices were used in the recordings and how people voted. Feel free to
spread this around.

Have fun listening!
Arch



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The myth about filter ringing

[Archimago]

Yup... Thanks Mnyb for the post.

Yeah, all these years the audiophile industry and press have been
suggesting that impulse responses are such a big deal yet we see all the
time new products that:

A. Have no filters - NOS
B. Have weak filters - MQA
C. Have very strong filters - Chord

And yet among audiophiles, we see all kinds of testimonies for each of
these products! The bottom line really at the end of the day is that
filter effects are subtle. The real question is, does a person want good
filtering in order to achieve proper audio output - flat response to
20kHz, no aliasing/imaging, and reduce jitter? If so, then go with a DAC
that performs with a high quality filtering algorithm (not MQA - very
weak and introduces its own overloading distortions).

As for the whole ringing business, there's nothing to worry about so
long as the mastering was done properly! The use of the impulse response
"image" with pre/post-ringing and long duration to scare people into
believing that short duration, no pre-ringing are "good" traits are
ridiculous examples of an industry that has nothing better to do but
create fear, uncertainty, and doubt to stimulate consumerism.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] arnyk RIP

[Archimago]

Golden Earring wrote: 
> Hi all!
> 
> I had the odd ding-dong with arnyk, but learned a lot too.
> 
> I am deeply saddened to hear of his passing, & trust that he will not
> give St Peter too hard a time before gaining his rightful access to a
> better place...
> 
> Dave  :(

Wow, sad to hear of his passing.

St. Peter better be an objectivist :-).

RIP, -arnyk-.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 20 interesting facts about MQA

[Archimago]

MQA:
A REVIEW OF CONTROVERSIES, CONCERNS, AND CAUTIONS 
(\"HTTPS://WWW.COMPUTERAUDIOPHILE.COM/CA/REVIEWS/MQA-A-REVIEW-OF-CONTROVERSIES-CONCERNS-AND-CAUTIONS-R701/\")

Over time, as we know more about it, the more it is clear that it was
always to serve the interests of the Industry... As suspected for the
longest time.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Archimago Blog on amp power gets lot of interest on Facebook

[Archimago]

arnyk wrote: 
> Just a heads up. 
> 
> Posts related to
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/audiophilesonabudget/permalink/737114726478629/
> show that Archimago's Blog aritcle on estimating power amp sizing
> raised quite a bit of interest on Facebook. 
> 
> The Blog article is at
> http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/09/musings-how-much-amplifier-power-do-you.html

Thanks for the note Arny...

That sounds cool, I think :-). I never go on Facebook though :-(.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What sort of quality do people get when they download so-called "Hi Rez"

[Archimago]

pablolie wrote: 
> ...I had no idea that digital recording pollution had started as early!
> 
> I present the following little experiment I have gone for over the years
> with one of my favorite recordings ever.
> 
> 24411
> 
> One version is a 320k CBR rip from the original CD, the second the
> HDtracks download, supposedly from the "previously undiscovered,
> cryogentically-frozen and kept-in-a-vacuum master tape". F__k me if I
> can ever hear a difference.  And I've listened to it on $4k headphones
> (not mine), spending an utterly unenjoyable hour trying to convince
> myself I *had* to hear a difference. I've done the same experiment, only
> comparing a 16/44 and a 24/192 of very well recorded, 2000-ish albums,
> much to the same result. Maybe *there* I'd be able to detect a
> difference between the 320 and 16/44 version, but it's not one I'd
> particularly care for other than for archiving purposes. And I
> supposedly can still hear up to 17kHz, so it's not like I have deafened
> myself over the years. 
> 
> And now that it's easy to score $2 CDs in the used market, I've
> rediscovered the joy of roaming around in a music store on a weekend.
> Vintage CD stores, who would've thought! :-D

Oh no... -Say it ain't so!!!- Yet another "audiophile" who can't hear
the difference between MP3 and lossless! Even though your audiophile
membership has been revoked, it's good to hear your honesty :rolleyes:.

I guess as long as the public still pays money for the so-called "hi-res
version", it'll be made available no matter the provenance; including
all those ancient recordings with no real hope of achieving any benefit
from a high-res transfer. Despite the brave face and ongoing showing at
CES 2018 from the "High Resolution Audio" supporters, clearly the
mainstream isn't biting this year with essentially no coverage except
for the special interest groups (those places that still think MQA is
somehow a good idea!).

The Industry seriously needs to wake up. Even if ultimately 99.7564% of
listeners would not be able to tell a difference, at least if they're
going to sell hi-res recordings, let it be genuine product...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What sort of quality do people get when they download so-called "Hi Rez"

[Archimago]

arnyk wrote: 
> Listening tests of this device were among our early adventures with ABX:
> 
> 
> 
> http://djcarlst.provide.net/abx_digi.htm
> 
> "The Ampex 16 Bit Digital Delay Line vs. wire comparison was made in a
> professional recording studio control room on time aligned UREI 813
> speakers with McIntosh MC-2100 amplifiers. The audio source was local
> country artist P. J. Coombes who had been recorded on a 24-track Ampex
> MM-1000. That tape had been mixed to a 2-track tape at 15 IPS on a
> Scully 280. The mixdown and playback was through an API console. Thus
> the master tape played for these ABX trials was of quality not available
> to the record buyer of the era.
> 
> The listeners included professional recording engineers with years of
> experience on major label projects, professional maintenance engineers,
> and recording engineering students.
> 
> 
> For those not familiar with studio equipment, these are some of the most
> revered pieces of equipment of that day. API consoles are still prized
> today for their high quality. The studio microphone locker included
> Neumann U-67,Neumann, U-87, and Neumann KM-86 along with various
> microphones that might be selected for specific applications such as
> inside the drums. 
> "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For sure. It was said to be a proper 16 bit device.  Its clock rate may
> have been adjustable in the 40-50 KHz range. The dB article that I
> referenced seems to be the sole surviving piece of doc that is stored in
> public.
> 
> It was tested quite exhaustively, and found to be sonically transparent.
> Those tests is the origin of my interest in testing gear with a set of
> keys, jangling.  This is quite demanding, and just about everything in a
> good studio in those days would fail to be transparent enough to pass
> ABX tests.
> 
> http://djcarlst.provide.net/abx_tapg.htm
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have a sample to test, but from analysis of LPs that appear to
> be cut using it, I would speculate somewhat informedly that it used
> analog filters, and R2R conversion. The analog filters were relatively
> gentle by modern standards. The transistion band appears to be huge. A
> fair amount of loss in the 17-22 KHz range.
> 
> 
> 
> :-)
> 
> I'd guess that a very high proportion of LPs that were cut from 1979 to
> 1989 were cut using it. IOW, during production they were digitized @ 16
> bits, and were brick wall filtered at 24 Khz or thereabout.  I don't
> beieve that he has complained about even one instance of this. 
> 
> For example, every legacy copy of the DSOTM LP probably received this
> treatment. 
> 
> During loud passages, the brick wall and rejection band is covered up by
> the nonlinear distortion that is inherent in the LP format:  
> 
> 24324
> 
> This is an interesting finding to me, because it turns all of those LPs
> into potential test records for evaluating the nonlinear distortion
> inherent in the LP. If analysis of a quiet passage or leadin groove
> shows the indicated digial artifacts or something like them, then
> anything above the observed transistion band has to be generated by the
> LP format itself, as no such signal was ever sent to the cutter head. 
> LPs cut in Y2K and later seem to be free of this issue - the delay may
> not have been used, or it was running at a higher sample rate such as
> 24/96.
> 
> To clairfy, the needle drop shown is of a contemporateous Supertramp LP.

Wow Arny! Appreciate your comments and demonstration. Great stuff and a
wonderful reminder of the transparency from digital even from the old
days before all the iterations and focus on home digital audio after the
release of CD.

Beyond all the angst these days about using digital to cut vinyl, this
is a reminder of just how far back digital has impacted vinyl
production... Something the analogue purists need to keep in mind
especially if they cite albums like Supertramp and DSOTM :-).

I'll have to remember to point to this post in the blog sometime!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What sort of quality do people get when they download so-called "Hi Rez"

[Archimago]

Interesting history there Arny... I assume the effect must have been
transparent.

Also I presume there's an AD/DA in the device. What kind of conversion
quality are we looking at with the ADD-1 back in the day for these
LP's!?

I'm sure Michael Fremer would have no trouble identifying these
digitally compromised LPs :rolleyes:.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What sort of quality do people get when they download so-called "Hi Rez"

[Archimago]

Happy New Year everyone!

Yup. No surprise about the paicity of actual hi-res music. For years
HDtracks has been releasing upsampled music. And few of the recordings
of course achieve anything close to needing beyond 16-bits if even that.
Years ago, I wrote the article on "'Hi-Res Expectations'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/03/musings-high-resolution-audio.html)"
and I see absolutely nothing has changed over the years.

I wondered back then and still today just how much of this stuff they're
actually selling... Hard to imagine a big market.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] More info on the intona

[Archimago]

foxesden wrote: 
> Hi
> 
> Just spent the day measuring my DAC as I thought it was losing bass.
> 
> I was using rightmark, and only wanted to confirm whether the frequency
> drop I was hearing could be measured - it could. But, I was surprised at
> how bad the noise etc was. So I tried measuring my other main DAC April
> Music Eximus; and this too didn't measure too well.
> 
> So I suspected my USB soundcard ESI U24XL wasn't too good; and bunged
> the intona into the chain to see if it made a difference. Here are the
> results
> 
> 
> 
> 24128
> 
> This result was entirely repeatable.
> 
> I suspect that it is because the old ESI device which is quite old has a
> ropey USB interface. 
> 
> Jonathan

Interesting... Wondering if you'd get better results with that ESI USB
ADC in 24-bit recording mode.

Looks like there's some noise there, but you mentioned bass loss issues.
Did you actually find frequency response differences?

Bottom line is that it looks like you need a better ADC than the U24XL
which I think is only 1/2 the price of the Intona USB isolator! The
other question is what computer / laptop are you connecting the ADC
to...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Final MQA Round-Up...

[Archimago]

Mnyb wrote: 
> Objektive characterisation of loudspeakers . Sean Olive of Harman
> International had an article about it years ago .
> 
> They claim to have some sort of method involving many different
> measurments a staggering undertaking if i remember there where dossens
> of them .
> 
> For from small signal electronics, preamps DAC’s whatever where noise
> and distortion is diminishingly small magnitudes below our threshold of
> hearing .
> Making subjective reviews even more pointless as you actually describe
> the source material flowery terms with all kinds of cocnetive bias .

I believe Toole & Olive do the "spinorama" measurements to get a sense
of off-axis response for speakers. Alas, I have no access to the usual
Google / YouTube information today, but Audioholics talk about it:
http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/loudspeaker-myths-and-truths/loudspeaker-myths-anechoic-chambers

I know Toole has a video that goes into good depth.

Yes, once we get into the realm of competent DACs, the differences are
so microscopic compared to loudspeakers that it is a waste of time with
subjective myth-making.

I suppose there is some entertainment value in record recommendations
and subjective comments on quality of workmanship, ergonomics, and
apparent reliability (notice how frequently reviews like -Stereophile
-seem to have issues with faulty gear!). Beyond that, I agree, there is
no value in much of the subjective reviews out there when it comes to
adjudicating sound quality.

I think what is fascinating is how seriously the subjective reviewers
take themselves and their opinions.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Final MQA Round-Up...

[Archimago]

Golden Earring wrote: 
> Hi Archimago!
> 
> I agree wholeheartedly with the points that you make.
> 
> It is certainly the case that loudspeakers are still (despite massive
> advances in materials available for driver construction since I first
> started my audio quest for nirvana some 45 years ago) the weakest link
> in the chain, & the most appropriate choice for an individual listener
> will be governed by the size (& shape) of their listening room, the
> particular combination of compromises used by the various manufacturers
> (who usually have some kind of "house" sound throughout their range)
> that meshes best with the musical ear of the listener, & also on the
> type of music that is to be reproduced. If you predominantly listen to
> string quartets, you will have an easier time finding loudspeakers that
> you like than you will if you have more catholic tastes (like me, & I
> suspect, the majority of the members of this forum).
> 
> I am not particularly bothered which "genre" a musical performance is
> (often relatively arbitrarily) assigned to, I am interested in whether
> it is an emotionally engaging musical performance. I like listening in
> the dark with no distractions, in the (probably delusory!) belief that
> this helps my analogue brain focus on the sound without any other
> sensory distractions. I do have to observe certain safety protocols when
> indulging myself like this since my 18 year old black cat *-still-*
> hasn't twigged that, unlike her, I cannot see in the dark (or for that
> matter that my eyes are located much further away from my feet than in
> her configuration... ). This is slightly dangerous for me, but
> potentially disastrous for her. I have a powerful flashlight to hand! 
> :D
> 
> The almost total inadequacy of any commonly quoted objective
> measurements of loudspeaker performance for the purpose of assisting
> one's selection of a loudspeaker that suits you is apparent. Arnyk sent
> me the link (on another thread) for a recently published paper by 3
> Danish academic researchers who were attempting to make headway with
> this issue by inventing new objective measures which actually do
> correlate to the sound produced. It was a tough read - I think it took
> me 3 run-throughs fully to fathom their chosen methodology & ultimately
> I was less than impressed with the amount of progress which they had
> actually made by the end.
> 
> However, if anyone would like to have a headache this weekend, I'll go
> off & find it so that you can judge for yourself! Throwaway remarks like
> needing a "specially experienced listening panel" & the need for the
> experiment to be conducted by "experts" gave me cause for concern that
> the scientific method (which requires the results of experiments to be
> readily repeatable) was not being closely followed despite the undoubted
> qualifications of the authors...
> 
> Have a great weekend all!
> 
> I'm off to a Richard Thompson concert this evening - I attended one of
> the early concerts in his current tour & he was so good that I got
> tickets to see him again before he retreats back to the US which has
> been his home for the last 30 years. I'm really looking forward to it!
> 
> Dave  :cool:

Just reading from overseas... Thanks GE. Do you happen to have a link to
the paper you're referring to? Maybe Arnyk can chime in here...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Final MQA Round-Up...

[Archimago]

LOL... Don't think I *can* even convert to being a subjectivist if I
wanted to at this point :rolleyes:.

For one thing, I honestly find it remarkably -boring -writing about the
subjective experience of what one hears. The reason being that when
writing that stuff, one recognizes that the words are just describing an
ephemeral internal experience that can (and should) be different for
each person based on life history. This is also why I typically just
glace over subjective reviews these days. I can appreciate album
recommendations and general discussions about the gear and why it might
be great...

But do I really care about the quality of the supposedly perceived
subjective change when some golden-eared guru replaced cables or
switched a $5000 DAC when we know these experiences are prone to bias?
Not really. Some devices that are more difficult to characterize might
be worth a read - like speakers.

Too many people describe too many subjective experiences already in this
world (like every month of -TAS -and -Stereophile-). I really can't see
how any more will actually educate, add knowledge, or change the hobby
in any positive direction...

As for this:
-"Anyhow, I'm not sure demo gear comes to anyone for free for real."- --
drmatt

No. Nothing is really for free. The price is that of a review of sorts
and at least an endorsement, right?

As for Chord, I have heard some great sounds from these at the local
audio show and showroom. The most interesting thing about these DACs I
think is how they've taken the opposite direction from MQA. Instead of
weak, poorly antialiasing digital filters of something like 32 to 64
taps with MQA, they implement very long "brick wall" type filters with
tens of thousands of taps. If time domain performance were about impulse
responses, this is like giving the finger to Bob Stuart and MQA's
typical presentation material ;).



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Final MQA Round-Up...

[Archimago]

Golden Earring wrote: 
> Hi Archimago!
> 
> Mytek make a studio-orientated DAC called the Manhattan (now in version
> 2, so *-someone-* must be buying the things!) at a cool $6000.
> 
> It has word clock in & out, so that you can buy several & sync them up
> for multi-channel - at a price!
> 
> Don't know if it has MQA, but since it's for monitoring in the studio
> listening room I suspect it would have...
> 
> Give Michal Jurewicz a call & see if he'll lend you a full set for
> objective evaluation. He might just do it, he seems to be very proud of
> his designs.
> 
> As for you being seduced by such things, I've got you pegged with the
> "unclubable" Groucho Marx  :D
> 
> Dave  :cool:

Good one GE:

"PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT
WILL ACCEPT PEOPLE LIKE ME AS A MEMBER". Groucho Marx

Actually, I do belong to a number of non-profits, little get togethers
(including a local audio gathering a couple years back), and of course
more professional "clubs" so to speak. The -*"fraternity of subjectivist
audiophile"*- (and it is very much a fraternity of typically old dudes)
- not so much. :eek:

On a "serious" note, regarding MQA, while the more expensive Manhattan
DAC (ESS 9038) I'm sure is good, what would be interesting would be a
-non-ESS Tech DAC based decoder-. The reason being that we know what
kind of filtering parameters they're programming into these ESS DACs,
but what about a TI/Burr Brown DAC or an AKM DAC? All kinds of reasons
worth asking about this of course...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Final MQA Round-Up...

[Archimago]

ralphpnj wrote: 
> ... On the other hand, a nice "loan" of a $10,000 MQA enabled DAC might
> go a long in helping one to forget that conclusion.

Love it man, send that $10K MQA DAC ASAP!

I want to run a few impulse responses thru and see if I can verify the
16 MQA filters across the price points... I already have the measurement
from the $100 AudioQuest Dragonfly Black, $2000 Mytek Brooklyn, and this
$10,000 device will fit in nicely to the study.

Any manufacturers out there interested??? :rolleyes:



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Final MQA Round-Up...

[Archimago]

ralphpnj wrote: 
> Only problem is you will not be offered the loans to write objectively
> about the equipment but rather to write subjectively, as per the
> advertisers instructions.

Will see man. :-) After all these years of soft, touchy-feely subjective
audiophile writers, I suspect objective guys will be a little too hot to
touch for the scam elements of the industry.

-"Now let me welcome everybody to the wild, wild west
A state that's untouchable like Elliot Ness"-

-- Tupac Shakur



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Final MQA Round-Up...

[Archimago]

ralphpnj wrote: 
> Very nice "musings" post. Haven't read the comments yet but the article
> does a nice job of trying to separate science from opinion. 
> 
> One question that comes to mind: will your "musings" start to drift now
> that you have the audiophile press' attention and, as was the case with
> Computer Audiophile site, you are slowly brought into the inner circle
> with generous "loans" of hyper-expensive equipment and other nifty
> perks? Just sayin'

Hey Ralph! 😁

I suppose every man has his price but my viewpoints I suspect are rather
difficult for the “high end” to get behind... Heck, I think the day they
offer hyper-expensive long term loans to me that I’d be happy to accept
will be a nice indication that mainstream audiophilia has turned the
corner into a ‘more objective’ hobby! 

That’s the kind of “paradigm shift” I’m looking for. :cool:



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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Final MQA Round-Up...

[Archimago]

Hey all,
Glad to be done the MQA Core vs. Hi-Res blind test series and basically
end off with a summary of sorts:

'Part I: Procedure'
(https://archimago.blogspot.ca/2017/09/mqa-core-vs-hi-res-blind-test-part-i.html)
'Part II: Core Results'
(https://archimago.blogspot.ca/2017/09/mqa-core-vs-hi-res-blind-test-part-ii.html)
'Part III: Subgroup Analysis'
(https://archimago.blogspot.ca/2017/09/mqa-core-vs-hi-res-blind-test-part-iii.html)
'Part IV: Subjective Impressions'
(https://archimago.blogspot.ca/2017/10/mqa-core-vs-hi-res-blind-test-part-iv.html)

'MQA: \"Final\" Thoughts... On Politics and Paradigms.'
(https://archimago.blogspot.ca/2017/10/mqa-final-thoughts-on-politics-paradigms.html)

Thank you to all the folks here who participated in the testing and
submission of survey results! It has been fun "work" getting this
together with your help and I think over the years we can recognize that
the only way to change the nature of this "hobby" is to try it
ourselves. To create a narrative that can be coherent and based on
scientific and engineering principles rather than claims and vague
impressions of the industry that might or might not be on the same path
as consumers.

Cheers! :cool:



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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Internet Blind Test: MQA Core Decode vs. Hi-Res PCM - RESULTS...

[Archimago]

Hey guys,
Thanks for submissions...

'Procedure (Part I)'
(https://archimago.blogspot.ca/2017/09/mqa-core-vs-hi-res-blind-test-part-i.html)
'Results (Part II)
'
(https://archimago.blogspot.ca/2017/09/mqa-core-vs-hi-res-blind-test-part-ii.html)


It is what it is :-).



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET BLIND TEST: MQA Core Decoding vs. Standard Hi-Res Audio

[Archimago]

Golden Earring wrote: 
> Hi Archimago!
> 
> Thanks for the heads-up: I do my best to reduce the load on the world's
> landfill sites.  ;)
> 
> I have had a rather good week. Firstly I got an e-mail out of the blue
> from the solicitors who dealt with my late mother's estate, which we
> were under the impression had finally been fully distributed about 8
> years ago in equal shares between myself & my 3 daughters, only 6 years
> after my mum's death in 2003 - he'd been contacted by an insurance
> company holding a 5-figure investment that had slipped through the net.
> And for good measure HMRC are so snowed under that they couldn't be
> bothered to reopen their file, so no tax! Then secondly, in pursuing a
> Pathos InPol-2 amp at a knockdown price (which I missed, but it was 2005
> vintage) I've made contact with a hi-fi dealer who is in the process of
> supplying a customer with the new Pathos InPol Heritage (-*very*- silly
> money new... ) when he can get one within the next few weeks - & this
> chap has an InPol-2 which is only 2 years old that he wants to P/X, so
> I've got first refusal on that one instead.
> 
> When I walk down the street, I am now actively on the lookout for stuff
> to step in, lol...
> 
> Dave :cool:

Wow Dave. Interesting description of the week there... Gotta be careful
about taxes :-). Don't talk about it cuz the forum has ears directly
linked to the HMRC.

Had a peek at that Pathos amp. Lovely looking! Hope you got a good
score.

Remember everyone: less than 2 weeks before I shut down the survey.
Thanks again for all who have put in their results!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)

[Archimago]

For those running Linux, remember that BrutefirDRC works also... Not
much of a fancy UI compared to Inguz but has worked stably for me with
Acourate room filters in LMS.

http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2016/03/howto-logitech-media-server-brutefirdrc.html



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET BLIND TEST: MQA Core Decoding vs. Standard Hi-Res Audio

[Archimago]

Eyerex wrote: 
> Will have to take the test as i own a Meridian Explorer 2 only problem
> is i live in the world of budget HiFi so running on a PiCorePlayer with
> a Yamaha A-S500 and a set of JPW Sonatas but will give it a go
> 
> PS i normally listen to electronic music but can appreciate classical
> music as playing a instrument is sadly a talent i will never have plus
> Kim André Arnesen's MAGNIFICAT was a demo track i got with my Explorer 2
> with is stunning

Your Yamaha / Meridian Explorer 2 / JPW Sonata would be a great system
to test with. As I mentioned in the blog, there's certainly no need for
megabuck systems! After all if MQA is a significant upgrade in sound
quality that's worthwhile enough for TIDAL streaming to everything from
megabuck systems to headphone users, a system such as yours and your
impression could/should/would be a very fine test subject along the wide
price-points audiophiles use.

Enjoy!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET BLIND TEST: MQA Core Decoding vs. Standard Hi-Res Audio

[Archimago]

Golden Earring wrote: 
> Hi Archimago!
> 
> Firstly, apologies for "cherry-picking" your earlier comment in the
> quotation above: I'm just trying to focus on the bits of particular
> relevance to the ensuing comments - if you feel that I've removed the
> context, I apologise & stand to be corrected!
> 
> Obviously your remarks about the internal processing capabilities of the
> Transporter are pretty technical, but if I've understood correctly you
> are saying that it is incapable of outputting a decoded data stream
> above 24/96 through any of its digital outputs even though in theory the
> connections themselves could support them. I think that this puts my
> idea to rest in practical terms. In any event, both my pet bat & I agree
> with you that anything above 24/96 should have no audible effect! So for
> all practical purposes (other than your test) I'm quite happy with it as
> is.
> 
> I take your point about the exceptional price/performance ratio of the
> Raspberry Pi, but I've had a spot of good fortune in that I've managed
> to acquire a mid-2010 i5-based 27" iMac with Bluetooth remote keyboard,
> barely used, for £400. I think that's one of my better bargains given
> that they were £1649 when new! With its high resolution screen (2560 x
> 1440) I can attach it to the wall on the other side of "my" corner of
> the room & operate it without getting up from my sofa (I am a bit lazy
> these days). I picked up the matching Apple "Magic Track Pad" (also
> Bluetooth) s/hand & also a frame that holds it to the right of the
> keyboard (both convenient since I am right-handed & making the combined
> unit wide enough to sit snugly on my lap - the keyboard on its own is so
> small as to be awkward to balance) from eBay, so that should enable me
> to connect into the USB 2.0 input on my Mytek DAC which goes up to a
> mind-bending 32/384 (or DSDx256). Can't really see the point but at
> least I'm a bit future proof if things carry on getting sillier...
> 
> Anyway, I've always fancied a Mac but have been put off by the cost in
> the past. It'll be interesting getting my Windows 10 PC, OS Sierra iMac
> & Linux Synology NAS talking to each other! I have the NAS, the
> Transporter, my Panasonic Freeview HD BD-R + HDD & my 2010 Sony TV on
> Ethernet at the moment. In fact there are now no useful apps still
> supported on the TV, so I'll simply disconnect that from my router
> altogether (leaving its HDMI connection to the Panasonic gizmo, of
> course) & use that 4th final Ethernet port on the router for the static
> iMac. Other stuff (laptop PC, printer, 'phone, couple of Touches synced
> to Transporter displaying album art & current track info) all connect
> via Wi-Fi & operate faultlessly, at least so far.
> 
> But apart from running experimental stuff via USB on the iMac, I'll
> leave LMS running on my NAS & accept the 24/96 limitation of my
> Transporter even as a purely digital source.
> 
> Thanks for your technical insight!
> 
> Dave :)

That's a nice selection of devices Dave :-).

About a decade ago, I remember feeling "disappointed" that my
Transporter was "only" capable of 24/96. Over the years with experience,
recognition that many 176.4/192 recordings have no content in the
highest frequencies, and of course recognition that my ears/brain
complex is just not able to appreciate the difference, when it comes to
listening to music, it ends up being the Transporter that I fire up with
room correction done by LMS and BruteFIR.

Of course the Mytek DAC like what you have or my Oppo Sonica DAC with
higher frequency rates and DSD128+ would be great for upsampler
experimentation, trying different filters, etc...

In any event, enjoy the sound! And have fun with experimenting :-).



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET BLIND TEST: MQA Core Decoding vs. Standard Hi-Res Audio

[Archimago]

drmatt wrote: 
> What are the origins of 2L's mqa files? I remember looking at some of
> their sample material before. Not my type of music I have to say, hard
> for me to get into it..
> 
> 
> -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk-

Hi Matt:
The original MQA files can be found here (along with originals up to
DXD):
http://www.2l.no/hires/

As you can see, I picked 3 of them based on variation on the type of
sound (vocals, piano, violin). Yeah, all classical, not exactly the type
of thing I listen to daily. However, considering the fact that much of
MQA on Tidal is just poorly mastered or old non-hi-res recordings, this
is as good as I think we can get when trying to try listening for
differences... Especially considering they're freely available and meant
for evaluation.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET BLIND TEST: MQA Core Decoding vs. Standard Hi-Res Audio

[Archimago]

Thanks for the comments GE... 

Well, here in 2017, I still consider 24/96 "hi-res" of course. Last I
checked, my kids' ears apparently have not evolved enough to render
24/96 inadequate :-).

Yes, the digital interfaces AES/EBU, TosLink, coaxial can be used for
>24/96 but the Transporter does not support this. My understanding is
that the limitation here is with the Ubicom IP3K CPU, 28Mbits RAM, and
the embedded operating system. It is an interesting idea nonetheless and
even if the hardware is capable of the hack, remember that you'll need
to stream lossless PCM over the ethernet as FLAC decompression is likely
out of the question especially over the 802.11g WiFi.

These days, for <$100 you could just stream with a Raspberry Pi 3 or
equivalent to your heart's content even beyond 192kHz over USB of
course...

Looking forward to your blind test entry! Good to see you have the Touch
for 176.4/192 playback. Remember the only reason I went with the 4x
samplerate is to capture a bit of the digital filter effect from MQA to
get closer to "the sound" given how much they tout the effect of their
variety of digital filtering. Unofficially, of course one could just
play back over 96kHz; so long as the downsampling is done the same way,
one should still be able to hear any significant differences between the
MQA Core decode and a standard hi-res downsample.

Enjoy...



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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] INTERNET BLIND TEST: MQA Core Decoding vs. Standard Hi-Res Audio

[Archimago]

Hey boys and girls...

Been meaning to do this for awhile but now that software decoding and we
know better about the digital filter, I think it's time to let the world
have a listen to what MQA Decoding sounds like compared to standard
24/88 or 24/96 resampling. If you're curious about MQA (especially if
you have not listened for yourself), come check out a little blind test
I'm conducting.

Download the files, have a listen, complete my survey!

Will be interested in what you, the listener perceives...

INTERNET
BLIND TEST: MQA CORE DECODING VS. STANDARD HI-RES AUDIO 
(\"HTTP://ARCHIMAGO.BLOGSPOT.CA/2017/07/INTERNET-BLIND-TEST-MQA-CORE-DECODING.HTML\")

BTW: Test will close for survey entries on September 8th, 2017.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HIGHRESAUDIO to stop offering MQA

[Archimago]

Wombat wrote: 
> I picked some info here and there but your summary is the most complete
> i did read. Well done!
> Funny is how the aliased HF crap from 'unfold' 2 by some is
> misinterpreted as original content because of BS using cloudy wordings.

And that's an important observation about MQA, Wombat.

I think the reason so many reasonable/rational audiophiles have been
concerned about MQA is the nebulous way that it's being presented since
late 2014. The strange burst of Q&A articles from Bob Stuart last year,
the lack of A/B comparisons from the start. On the one hand, vague hints
at "time domain" this and "origami" that. Combined with rather extreme
superlatives about just how much better it is compared with everything
else down to the micro/pico/nanoseconds... Replete with colorful graphs
and impulse responses that on the surface might look enticing but is
ultimately all about a sales job. Sure, who doesn't want it to be true?
But there ways always that fishy smell and intellectual itch that seems
"too good to be true".

I don't know how much money Meridian/MQA/TIDAL/record industry want to
burn with pushing MQA to keep this going... I won't be surprised if by
this time next year, everyone will have moved on (including the aging
audiophile mainstream press writers, their shills, and their
"alternative facts").



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HIGHRESAUDIO to stop offering MQA

[Archimago]

Here's a look at the MQA Rendering of the Dragonfly Black:
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/06/measurements-audioquest-dragonfly-black_24.html

I honestly don't see anything "good" here that argues for higher
fidelity... Also good for HIRESAUDIO for not selling this kind of
questionable "technology"!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Some thoughts on the Audiophile Holy Wars :-).

[Archimago]

ralphpnj wrote: 
> Okay so I'm late to the party. With spring now struggling to arrive here
> in the northeastern US I have been busy out riding my bicycles (I have
> several bicycles although I can only ride one at a time) rather than
> sitting at the computer reading on-line audio forums.
> 
> ...
> 
> While the use of measurements is a wonderful tool perhaps a basic primer
> on the differences between what can be measured and what is actually
> audible is needed. Two quick examples would be jitter in digital audio
> and the effects of cable/wire in both digital and analog audio. In the
> case of jitter it can shown while jitter can be easily measured, jitter
> cannot be heard by human ears. The case for cables is even more absurd
> since the claimed effects of most cables can't even be measured let
> alone be audible.
> 
> ...
> 
> One of the main reasons that this forum seems to attract so many
> objective audio enthusiasts is that most of us understand that the
> aforementioned audiophile beliefs are myths and simply reject the
> outright dismal seen in the audiophile world that the Squeezebox devices
> are only "mid-fi" and are not capable of delivering "high end" audio.
> Truth be told, it was only after my purchase of my first SB3 that I
> began to fully question many of the audiophile myths. And once I was
> able to hear the truth with my own ears many of the audiophile myths
> started to fall like dominoes.

Hey there Ralph!

Good that you've been able to enjoy the weather... Alas here in
Vancouver out west, it has been a rainy and cold spring thus far.
Hopefully this weekend will brighten up and get warmer to enjoy the
outdoors.

*Measurements *and *results from blind testing *alas end up being the
only tools we have to escape from the subjective "I heard it so you have
to believe me" mindset. And of those 2, good luck bringing up blind
testing in many forums unless you're looking to be banned...

You're right, at multiple nanoseconds of data jitter, we already cannot
hear a sonic difference but when even the measurements suggest there's
essentially no jitter worth mentioning, then IMO the subjectivists have
nothing to say. We are already there with even very inexpensive DACs
these days (I have one I'm testing currently!).

I find it fascinating that over the years, there has been essentially no
testing of crazy priced  cables in the major magazines. Simply
amazing! Logically, every cable reviewer (probably) can accept the idea
of transparency - that "the best cable is no cable". But yet, unless
there's something other than electrical (or optical) conduction, they
never bother to test... Truly amazing!

Yup. That whole "mid-fi" vs. "hi-fi" divide comes across absolutely
ridiculously these days as if price dictates quality; especially in the
world of high fidelity digital... Discussed in my 'recent post last
week'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2017/05/musings-on-being-audiophile-rationality.html).



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Some thoughts on the Audiophile Holy Wars :-).

[Archimago]

drmatt wrote: 
> It seems to me that MP3 can deliberately "clean up" a complex signal and
> make it sound more defined, just because it throws away some of the
> subtlety.
> 
> But then, I am sitting in a pub..
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Yes, that was my suspicion as well. The psychoacoustic algorithm
sanitizes the signal a bit by removing extraneous information deemed
"unnecessary".

You're reading this forum from the pub!? I guess it's not exactly a
"happening place" this Friday evening :-(.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Some thoughts on the Audiophile Holy Wars :-).

[Archimago]

Julf wrote: 
> But then there is this: 'Why the Flat Earth Movement is the Best Symbol
> of the Increasingly Diminished Value of Truth and Intelligence'
> (http://news.nationalpost.com/life/why-the-flat-earth-movement-is-the-best-symbol-of-the-increasingly-diminished-value-of-truth-and-intelligence)
> 
> "It’s the same quick-fix attitude that’s besieging our political
> landscape: information that doesn’t accord with your carefully
> manicured world-view is “fake news,” opinions that don’t cohere with
> your own are offensive, everything you dislike or that frightens you can
> be wedged between scare quotes and rejected out of hand. Never mind the
> “expertise” of “professionals” and “elites.” You still matter. You
> know everything you need to know."
> 
> For many audiophilia is a way to escape from a modern world full of
> knowledge, science, technology and expertise into a simpler, gentler
> word where you count simply for having been around long enough to read
> enough audiophile magazines and but the right boxes. But because you are
> Special, with better ears than the ears of all those know-it-all
> engineer types, your Truth trumps (pun intended) all their formulas. 
> 
> Unfortunately proving them wrong just strengthens their resolve.

Yup, very appropriate observation into the nature of audiophilia and the
bigger sociological context which we're seeing playing out all over the
place like politics.

Years ago, I remember the term "intellectual embarrassment" being used
as one which I've thought about as apropos for much of what we see
written in the audiophile world. I think it applies nicely to the quote
from the flat earth article and your comments about the desire of a
"simpler, gentler world" where essentially any opinion can be acceptable
no matter how outlandish.

This has become the fate of various audiophile sites IMO (cough...
cough... AudioStream, 6moons...). Even if at some point the intent was
to seriously discuss the technology and disseminated knowledge, they now
read like either a bad music review site that just wants to sell
whatever idiosyncratic stuff the guy likes, or a hangout for the New Age
faithful. Forget the "intellectual embarrassment" part, it's just plain
embarrassing that this is presumably what many audiophiles consume in
terms of the source of information on a regular basis!

As for likening this to the Flat Earthers, thankfully there aren't many
of those around even if the article can throw up a few celebrity names.
They can perhaps take pride in being the "few" and the "elite". However,
considering that the audiophile press has been at this for decades now
and considering how many audiophiles already belong to the subjectivist
camp, maybe the psychology works out better for the vocal objective
folks which might be a minority at this time in many places.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Some thoughts on the Audiophile Holy Wars :-).

[Archimago]

darrenyeats wrote: 
> 1. It was your MP3/FLAC test that convinced me I CAN distinguish MP3 and
> FLAC! It was the metal track - I couldn't establish a preference, but I
> could pick out A and B at will for that one track. Once, I randomised
> the playlist and tried it 10 times. I got 9 right. Until your test, I
> was thinking it might be placebo but now I'm convinced it's audible.
> 
> 2. One of your tests on digital cables is the ONLY concrete evidence I
> have seen that changing a digital cable can affect measurements at the
> analogue output of a DAC. Without your evidence, I would probably have
> to concede this might be just a theoretical possibility. (Just in case
> it isn't clear from the preceding words, I am not writing about
> audibility.)
> 
> I thank you for your measurement-led approach. I don't agree with all
> your summarisations though.
> 
> I can see how certain audiophiles might jump on some of the above words
> and extrapolate wrongly. But that's no reason to bury or twist
> conclusions.

Hi Darren,
Yeah, let's talk about this...

1. Indeed the metal tune "Keine Zeit" was the track that would likely
sound "most different". Lots of noise and other stuff for the MP3 to
encode :-). But remember, the MP3 was also the "most preferred" over the
original FLAC! So yes, I suppose if one had lots of hard-to-encode hard
rock / metal albums, maybe one would notice a difference... But one
might also *prefer* the sound of MP3 at 320kbps.

Remember that MP3 is indeed not perfect of course! There are test tracks
like keys rattling and such used to fine tune the psychoacoustics at
various bitrates.

2.  Sure. Stuff like coaxial digital cables that pick up noise can
influence the DAC output in extreme cases (eg. poor shielding). But I
don't think I've demonstrated anything else unusual...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Some thoughts on the Audiophile Holy Wars :-).

[Archimago]

Wombat wrote: 
> The efforts you and others do is simply amazing! Thanks for that.
> It should be mentioned that people like Arnold K. spend much time in
> several forums and events to make people think about their own
> percetption.
> Over the last years i see several High-End peddlers are more cautious
> with direct superlatives and they have it harder to find gullibles.
> Nonetheless they try to sell now with 'The difference is subtile and not
> to abx or measure but worth once spotted' ;)

I've certainly seen Arny K's tireless efforts over the years... Hey, who
can forget Arny's tete-a-tete with John Atkinson in 2005!

'The Great Audiophile Debate - John Atkinson vs. Arny Krueger'
(https://youtu.be/oyaWMpnhusA)

Amazing that was 12 years ago, Arny!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Some thoughts on the Audiophile Holy Wars :-).

[Archimago]

For those new to some of our discussions here over the years, here are a
few links over the years which I've tried to provide evidence for and
thoughts I wanted people to consider. I've tried to maintain a general
structure in mind of topics to address, many of which are
contemporaneous with where the Industry is going or products it wants to
promote:

'*MP3 (high bitrate) vs. FLAC blind test*'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/02/high-bitrate-mp3-internet-blind-test_3422.html)
- MP3 320kbps appears to be just as good even to audiophiles with $$$
gear!

*The beginnings of device measurements:* 'Squeezebox Touch'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/02/measurements-logitech-squeezebox-touch.html),
'Transporter'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/02/measurements-logitech-transporter.html),
'NOS DAC'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/02/measurements-muse-mini-tda1543x4-nos.html),
'Playstation 1'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/03/measurements-sony-playstation-1-scph.html)

*The beginnings of looking at the "dreaded jitter" :-)* - 'Adaptive vs.
Asynchronous USB'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/03/measurements-adaptive-aune-x1.html),
'USB cables (making no difference)
'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/04/measurements-usb-cables-for-dacs.html)

*Cable measurements *(USB, TosLink, Coaxial, HDMI, ethernet, Synergistic
power cable, Crystal Cable, interconnects...) - 'summarized here'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/06/musings-audio-cables-summary-non.html);
notice also philosophical discussions

*Audio playback software* - no, they make no difference! 'On Windows'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/06/measurements-part-i-bit-perfect.html),
'on Mac OS X'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/05/measurements-bit-perfect-audiophile.html)

*Windows OS tweaks... *'No difference either from stuff like JPLAY and
Fidelizer'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/08/measurements-audiophile-sound-and.html).

*Audio lossless compression* - 'lossless is lossless'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/05/measurements-do-lossless-compressed.html)
:-)

On the fact that 'many SACD's are just upsamples'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/07/list-suspected-44-or-48khz-pcm.html)
to remind folks that we should *treat "high res" with caution*.

*Explorations in vinyl playback* and time domain performance compared to
digital. ('Digital'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/09/measurements-digital-audio-and.html))
('Technics SL-1200'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/08/measurements-technics-sl-1200-m3d-wow.html))
('Roksan TMS'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/11/measurements-roksan-tms-1-wow-flutter.html))

*Various philosophical discussions:* 'Passion/Audiophilia/Faith/Money'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2014/12/musings-passion-audiophilia-faith-and.html),
'Vinyl vs. Digital'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/02/musings-ongoing-vinyl-vs-digital-debate.html),
'Objectivism vs. Subjectivism'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/03/musings-audiophiles-us-vs-them.html),
'convenience/lossy/societal trends/worsening quality'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2016/08/musings-convenience-lossy-audio.html),
'wisdom of simplicity in hi-res
'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/12/musings-wisdom-of-simplicity-re-hi-res.html)

*"Basics"* of 'thinking about High Resolution Audio'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/01/musings-what-is-value-of-high.html),
'value of 176/192kHz?'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2016/06/musings-analysis-is-there-any-value-to.html),
'limitations of human hearing'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/10/musings-meditations-on-limitations-of.html),
'do we need >20kHz?'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2017/04/musings-do-we-need-those-20khz.html)

*Digital filters:* 'Linear vs. Minimal phase blind test'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/07/the-linear-vs-minimum-phase-upsampling.html),
'basics of it'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2016/07/musings-digital-interpolation-filters.html)

*USB "noise":* 'USB hubs'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/05/measurements-usb-hubs-and-8khz-phy.html),
'using Corning optical USB cable'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/05/measurements-corning-usb-3-optical.html)

*Pono:* 'general comments'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/01/last-words-on-pono-mastering-analysis.html),
'Player itself'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/08/measurements-ponoplayer-another-mans.html)

The power of *DSP room correction*: 'First time'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2015/09/measurements-sound-room-update-digital.html)...
'Second time'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2016/05/updated-room-measurements-musings-on.html)...

*Computer Audio:* 'Part I'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2017/03/musings-computer-audio-part-i.html),
'Part II'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2017/03/musings-computer-audio-part-ii-basics.html)

*Inexpensive audio streaming these days:* Using 'ODROID C2'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2016/05/measurements-odroid-c2-with-volumio-2.html)
and 'Raspberry Pi 3'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2017/01/measurements-

[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Some thoughts on the Audiophile Holy Wars :-).

[Archimago]

Archimago wrote: 
> H. As others say, this is really not possible.
> 
> I fear to ask just how noisy your DAC is! Over the years of
> measurements, I have never seen noise all that significant over a USB
> interface unless something went wrong like picking up ground loop hum
> and stuff like that. If anything, they tend to measure better than other
> digital interfaces.
> 
> Just have a look at the Oppo BDP-105 results I put up recently comparing
> USB, HDMI, Coaxial, TosLink:
> 'http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/04/measurements-oppo-bdp-105-rca-xlr-hdmi.html'
> (http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2017/04/measurements-oppo-bdp-105-rca-xlr-hdmi.html)
> 
> If you do find some evidence for what I believe is one of many myths in
> the audiophile world, I'd love to see it!

ralphpnj wrote: 
> What you chose to call a "myth" I chose to call a very carefully planned
> and targeted marketing campaign. Once one removes the real myth that
> states that the high end audio magazines produce editorial content that
> free of influence from the advertisers then one will begin to see just
> how these "myths" (aka marketing campaigns) work. It's really rather
> simple: manufacturer (aka advertiser) produces an item that does
> absolutely nothing and yet the item receives rave reviews in all the
> high end audio magazines. And so a myth is born.
> 
> Archimago I know full well that you despise this behavior but I can't
> but feeling that your very polite responses to these myths is like
> bringing a knife to a gun fight. The behavior of almost the entire high
> end industry, from manufactures to reviewers to salespeople, is
> despicable and needs to be treated not with respect but with scorn.

Mnyb wrote: 
> I think archimago does it even better :) he have carefully measured and
> presented real evidence on his site.
> 
> That works really well with the part of the pupolation that have not yet
> got "audiophilia" .
> 
> The calm matter of fact manner helps convince the much bigger audience
> that not yet afflicted.
> The true believers are in most cases lost , they die off slowly ( the
> prices in high end indicates that this is a factor ).
> The more effective work is convincing people to not join the cult in the
> first place .
> 
> A fun an educational site does this work more effectively than something
> else .
> 
> The alarmist tone and manner ( used in populist politics ) would make
> him look like yet another cuckoo with alternative facts :)

ralphpnj wrote: 
> I fully understand why you, Archimago and many others believe that the
> calm, polite and evidenced based approach is the proper one since reason
> does indicate that this approach SHOULD work much more effectively than
> my much more hostile approach. However the facts prove otherwise, in
> other words, the calm, polite and evidenced based approach does not
> work. Just ask President Trump which approach works better :)

Hey Mnyb and Ralph!
Lovely chatting with you guys again as usual :-). I thought it would be
good to start a new thread discussing this rather than clutter up the
"Intona USB Thing" comments. Because of the length of this, I'm going to
split into 3 posts!

Yeah, what can you say about the state of the world these days, eh?
Trump (100 days are up) is truly the hysterical gift that just keeps
giving; him and his cadre. "Sad" - indeed.

I don't think that bringing objectivity into a "gun fight" is like
taking out a knife. It's way more powerful - depending on situation it
will either blow a hole like a bazooka or perhaps the shut-down power of
an EMP blast. The bluster of guys who just talk out of undisciplined
"experience" and nothing but hot air based on their own (religious-like)
testimonies have been a subject that I've focused on over the years on
the blog. IMO, they are not that hard to quiet down. Even though their
underlying opinions might not change, eventually what ends up happening
is that they have no further arguments to refute the evidence and walks
away or ignore posts. I think that Mnyb is right that perhaps the "true
believers" might never change but those are not the folks I necessarily
want to "convert" (though I believe from E-mails and PM's over the years
that many are converting!). 

I wanted to systematically provide something -substantial -on-line as a
resource for those "more objective" folks who wanted something to point
to when they get into these "unholy wars". I hope we can stand on a
higher plane of argument and challenge not with words, but rather say to
the subjectivist:
"-Hey man, I can just as easily testify that something makes or doesn't
make a difference *and *I can show you why this ji

Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Intona USB thing

[Archimago]

ho_kuku wrote: 
> I did experienced the same thing - but with IFI Audio IUSB
> Volume became louder - at the same time improved separation. The noise
> floor also was greatly reduced.
> It just goes to show how "noisy" USB audio is - and those noise have a
> negative impact on sound.
> Clearing the noise out greatly have a positive impact on sound.
> 
> The IFI product was a 1) reclocker, 2) usb power regenerator etc

H. As others say, this is really not possible.

I fear to ask just how noisy your DAC is! Over the years of
measurements, I have never seen noise all that significant over a USB
interface unless something went wrong like picking up ground loop hum
and stuff like that. If anything, they tend to measure better than other
digital interfaces.

Just have a look at the Oppo BDP-105 results I put up recently comparing
USB, HDMI, Coaxial, TosLink:
'http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/04/measurements-oppo-bdp-105-rca-xlr-hdmi.html'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2017/04/measurements-oppo-bdp-105-rca-xlr-hdmi.html)

If you do find some evidence for what I believe is one of many myths in
the audiophile world, I'd love to see it!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HIGHRESAUDIO to stop offering MQA

[Archimago]

cliveb wrote: 
> Actually the Earth *does* have plenty of time to deal with it. It's the
> human race that doesn't.
> 
> If we stuff up the global climate enough to wipe out mankind (and
> possibly take out some other innocent bystanding species with us), the
> Earth will shrug its shoulders and recover.
> And if it were sentient (which of course it isn't just in case anyone
> thinks otherwise), it would probably think "good riddance".

Yup. I don't know about the "good riddance" part.

But IMO there are greater challenges coming -way- before global climate
change impacts most of our lives in very turbulent ways!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HIGHRESAUDIO to stop offering MQA

[Archimago]

drmatt wrote: 
> Cor, using intellect without spite? Bring it on!

Absolutely! No need to have "a -desire -to hurt, annoy, or offend
someone".

Some people will be hurt or upset no matter what anyone says but there's
no -need -for arguments to go that direction. We don't need to hold a
position where that is a desired outcome nor catalyze that.

Like I said, I think the subjectivist position has been weakened
substantially over the years. Many subjectivists are reasonable folks
who I believe will acknowledge the limitations of positions the
"mainstream" audiophile writers take and will appreciate when examples
are shown to demonstrate the fallacies.

Now as for the comments expressed so far about politics and the
anti-science political party. I actually don't worry about it and
personally don't mind. Truth and change comes when there are challenges
placed before humanity. An anti-science position, so long as the regime
does not turn into some kind of fascist rule (which IMO it won't)
provides an opportunity to find reason. Otherwise if everyone agrees it
ends up being one of complacency... Did audiophilia become any more
rational, or did radical creationists weaken over the 8 years of Obama's
presidency? :-)

To get back on topic. Look at MQA now. They're digging the bottom of the
barrel in introducing MQA CD's. As I expressed in my blog post this
week, I see this as weakness. Their return on investment I suspect is
looking rather poor with 1st quarter 2017 in the books. Who knows, maybe
TIDAL had a small increase in sign-ups with the introduction of MQA in
January; but I'd be surprised they're seeing the benefits in the bottom
line. Let's see if they dare introduce another increase in fee for a
"Master" audio streaming tier! Remember, MQA streaming does require 30%
higher bandwidth and storage compared to FLAC lossless.

Bit by bit, the "sacred cows" of subjective audiophilia can be exposed
for what they are. With the power of the Internet at everyone's
disposal, the traditional media is in decline and it's not hard to have
a "rational audiophile" voice be heard these days. All in good time :-).



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HIGHRESAUDIO to stop offering MQA

[Archimago]

ralphpnj wrote: 
> Ranks right up there with some other oxymorons like "military
> intelligence" and "elevated subway"

Let's try to change that Ralph! Promote another "option", "path",
"school" to follow in the public Forums and Marketplaces...

Men (usually) of distinction willing to submit to reason, objectivity,
and scientific techniques like ABX and blind testing to adjudicate
hardware fidelity. Able to use intellect to debate without spite. Able
to acknowledge opinion from fact. Willing to call out falsehoods in the
media and from Industry claims. Yet acknowledge the subjectivity of
esthetics whether it be in the music we enjoy, the creature comforts of
the hardware, the appearance of milled fasciae, and all sorts of other
"non-utilitarian" functions of the sound system in our homes and in our
possession because we can accept ultimately the joy of satisfaction in
whichever way this hobby achieves for each individual.

This "path" has always been there all along of course despite the
"mainstream" subjective-based ridicule, ignorance, and heavy-handed
"banning" of such viewpoints. Times are changing for better or worse
(probably both). And I think in audiophileland, the "rational
audiophile" can significantly impact the hobby for the good. The
Internet is the tool for affecting the masses.

I believe the path of the "subjectivist audiophile" is weak, ignorant,
and clearly rests on an unstable foundation based on nothing but -faith-
in false or grossly intellectually compromised idols and idiosyncratic
"high priests".

That's my rallying cry for the "rational audiophile".

:-)



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HIGHRESAUDIO to stop offering MQA

[Archimago]

ftlight wrote: 
> "Rational Audiophiles", perhaps?

Nice. I like that - the -rational audiophile-.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HIGHRESAUDIO to stop offering MQA

[Archimago]

I'm actually not worried about the proliferation of expensive goods.
Financial disparity is getting worse in this world at least for now and
there will always be the very rich who will go for price-no-object goods
in that part of the market. Sure, many will purchase audio equipment as
beautiful pieces of furniture, jewelry, and bragging rights.

But what I believe we can achieve is to marginalize the truly ridiculous
even further by shedding light on the nonsense of hundreds/thousand
dollar cables, companies like Synergistic I suspect are in decline
(notice the gradual decline of ads and website write-ups), reminding
people of how technology (especially digital audio) actually works, and
questioning the unwise proclamations of the high priests in ways that
hopefully allow the silent majority watching from the sidelines to see
their ridiculous stance.

I think all of us here recognize ourselves as "audiophiles" but we don't
need to be "high end" audiophiles as the magazines proclaim. I suspect
the "high end" is weak and we can promote a kind of "audiophilia" which
can accommodate the "love" of audio and the hardware, but dissociates
the claims of sound quality from price, belief in voodoo, and can speak
out against the unnecessary/detrimental like MQA.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HIGHRESAUDIO to stop offering MQA

[Archimago]

ralphpnj wrote: 
> I think that your optimism about consumers being educated is just a
> little bit off after all Beats are still the number one selling
> headphones and by a very wide margin. I think that it's less about
> rejecting high resolution audio per se and more about just not needing a
> media player other than their smart phone (in the case of Pono) in
> addition to being told that to truly appreciate hi-rez audio they would
> need better (and more expensive) playback equipment.
> 
> That last part comes from the simple fact that when a "high resolution"
> audio file is played back on their smart phone and Beats headphones they
> can't hear any difference from their mp3 version and so the industry's
> answer is to try and sell them something. Doesn't seem to be working
> just like 3D HDTV didn't work.

No need to be so pessimistic Ralph!

I totally understand that the common teenager/young adult music listener
isn't necessarily into high fidelity and won't care. Fashion rules in
that space. But the ones who do care about fidelity - the ones who might
be intrigued by "high resolution" as promoted by Neil Young or would
look at product specs to check out MQA - those people can be "reached".
Likewise the serious music lover - guys who would wander into Steve
Hoffman Forums for example - I know those guys also understand that
there is more than a little hype. Finally, I do believe when you look at
places like Stereophile and AudioStream website, people are getting more
than a little sick of the BS.

When the audiophile magazines see that serious "hi-fi" lovers "get it",
they will change.

The predictable death of Pono and likely gradual tarnishing of MQA are
useful reminders to audiophiles the ridiculous hype being perpetuated.
At some point, I think we reach a point where "faith" is lost and the
religion of the "high end" will crumble.

Stay the course, Ralph :-).



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HIGHRESAUDIO to stop offering MQA

[Archimago]

Indeed Wombat, thanks for the links and the laughs... I still have my
black Pono sitting on my shelf for the memories.

I don't know if this is a victory whether Pono or Highresaudio not
selling MQA for objectivists per se. I hope it is a victory for
consumers being educated about bullshit and voting with their wallets.
That's how capitalism should work. If the Emperor has no clothes, he
should be called out on it. Apparently Neil was surfing with his shorts
down as the tide went out :eek:.

Anyone know if Neil has made any official statement BtW?



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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MUSINGS: Computer Audio Part I: Demystifying "Computer Audio Demystified"

[Archimago]

You know guys & gals, it's one thing to get all tweaky and religious
about old turntables, idolize analogue, and worship at the temple of the
SET... But to bring all that nonsense to the computer audio world is
simply... sad...

Just had to say a thing or two about the YouTube video. :)

'
MUSINGS: Computer Audio Part I: Demystifying \"Computer Audio
Demystified\"'
(archimago.blogspot.com/2017/03/musings-computer-audio-part-i.html)

Hope you're all well and enjoying the tunes...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] CD WAV vs. HDTracks WAV Blind Test

[Archimago]

Wombat wrote: 
> Writing about the sound of Hi$res on the net is not easy.
> At CA someone took your finding that you can't hear a difference between
> a 24/96 and MQA as proof how good MQA is and indeed higher resolution
> worth the effort :)

:D

Well, it's all a matter of perspective, right? Sure, MQA does fill in
the frequency gaps objectively. "Worth it" gets us back to subjective
adjudication and whether the person bothered to A/B the "difference".
:rolleyes:



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] CD WAV vs. HDTracks WAV Blind Test

[Archimago]

"It’s as if those thousands of audio engineers at Sony and Phillips in
the late 70’s and early 80’s actually thought this through when they
invented the CD Digital Audio format."

Apparently the human ear/brain didn't evolve much over the last few
decades :rolleyes:.

Good job testing. I wish the old shills writing in audiophile magazines
would try something like this out and be honest about it.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Unused Transporter SE's on eBay.com

[Archimago]

Indeed a fantastic price for the new device! :cool:



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Quick question about DAC "filters"

[Archimago]

Yup... Good points all.

*Bottom line: *The Industry -needs -us to believe the filters are a "big
deal". After all, how else to differentiate digital audio of which
essentially any decent DAC over the last 20 years has sounded very good
already!? Maintaining this sense of wonder and belief in claims
underpins many of the advertised benefits for companies as disparate as
PS Audio, Ayre / Pono, Meridian, T+A, all the way to MQA and its promise
of "revolutionary" sound quality.

What the audiophile world truly needs to evolve and "revolve" is a
realization of the objective mindset in terms of adjudicating the
engineering around devices and file "formats". Time for the pendulum to
swing back to objectivity... A long time coming but I remain hopeful
that we can all contribute to making an impact.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Quick question about DAC "filters"

[Archimago]

Wombat wrote: 
> When people know what filter they play they will tell you all kind of
> stories.
> When people don't know what filter they play they dig in the dark.
> Like Archimago pointed out there can be filters that change parameters
> very much so things like frequency response or phase can be audible.
> Only the legendary Maridian filter listening test had a tiny positive
> pecentage positive result with very steep, strong ringing from
> upsampling.
> Forget about the nonsense people wirte about every tiny parameter in a
> filter changes the sound.

Yeah, that epic Meridian listening test that also either truncated or
used rectangular dithering that they admitted were suboptimal.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Quick question about DAC "filters"

[Archimago]

ralphpnj wrote: 
> i just finished reading a really poorly written review of Auralic's
> Altair streaming DAC and in the review extensive coverage is given over
> to the various filters in the unit.
> 
> So my question is:
> 
> How are these "filters" different from a simple graphic equalizer or
> simple DSP or even, god forbid, tone controls?
> 
> Note: the review is the March 2017 issue of Stereophile.

Hey Ralph,
Like Mnyb said, they're just referring to variations of the digital
oversampling antialiasing filter used in the DAC. Subtleties like the
presence of pre-ringing in the impulse response, passband, length of
filter can change the frequency response and determine how well aliasing
distortion is filtered out when the signal is upsampled.

My post this past week on the blog models what is seen with the MQA
filter for example:
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/02/musings-discussion-on-mqa-filter-and.html

SoX can do it but if you want a bit more control with the GUI interface,
iZotope RX does a great job with modelling the filter parameters. Have
fun experimenting and seeing if you can hear the difference.

Bottom line - unless you really fool around with the parameters and
strongly affect the frequency response (like with Ayre's filter and the
PonoPlayer), you're not going to hear much difference. If you play a
very loud track with clipping and square waveforms, then you might see
the ringing in the upsampled signal as well as intersample overload
distortions. With properly low-passed signal (as in all frequencies
<22.05kHz in a  16/44.1 file), then there's not going to be any ringing
in the output...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Our Music Listening... in 10 years.

[Archimago]

pablolie wrote: 
> ... Let me also state, I would so hope that, over the next years,
> someone picks up a next gen SB development... In my dreams, I envision
> an SB OLED Touch v2 that offers... 
> 
> - HDMI output to send liner notes to TV
> - Dual Digital and optical outputs with configurable frequency cutoffs
> - Built-in but bypassable room correction

That's a great idea Pablolie. I would also suggest the idea of LMS
supporting MULTICHANNEL to stream through that HDMI interface :-).

And make that room correction DSP powerful enough to handle the
multichannel data in 24/96!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is 24bit/44.1kHz high resolution or marketing BS?

[Archimago]

jfo wrote: 
> It seems that the industry still hasn't come with a meaningful standard
> definition of Hi Res, so we will continue to see marketing hype for so
> called Hi Res material. Dr Mark Waldrep sums up the industry approach
> nicely in an excerpt from his post CES blog
> 
> "There seems to be a collective effort to market hi-res music without
> any regard to whether it makes any difference. They’re all chasing the
> wrong end of the music fidelity beast. Instead of putting on slick
> presentations in expensive booths, or assembling a panel of so-called
> industry experts, they should start by creating recordings that actually
> possess better fidelity than we’re currently getting. They’ve defined
> all music ever created as hi-res if it’s delivered to you in a
> high-resolution digital container. I was unimpressed."

Yup. All of this is pretty well nonsense (as 'discussed recently in a
blog post'
(http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/01/musings-on-ongoing-push-for-hi-res-and.html)).
The industry needs to be seen as doing something different and new to
sell yet another "version" of the same thing.

Most of these 24/44 releases are totally ridiculous dynamic range
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiofools - an opportunity for one of you?

[Archimago]

Mnyb wrote: 
> Welll the Q is bit more complex , if you intend to do some post
> processing of the recordings it's good to have them as 24 bits when
> that's done you can convert to 16/48 and be done as it is as you say
> more than enough fidelity to store the vinyl recording.
> 
> And you can be more generous with headroom when recording in 24 bits ,
> you can always adjust the level with software later .

This is what I do.

ADCs typically work very well if not optimally at 24/96. Plenty of
headroom in terms of dynamic resolution and frequency response to
capture everything that could be of any value on the vinyl.

It has been awhile but in the past I always used ClickRepair or other
processing with Adobe Audition to remove the obvious imperfections. Then
iZotope RX to dither and resample down to 16/48 is what I do to get the
final file for the music server.



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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 as USB Streamer (+ CRAAP config & TIDAL/MQA arrives)

[Archimago]

Raspberry Pi 3 works great thru USB as a Squeezebox replacement with
piCorePlayer of course...

Some objective stuff...

Some suggested underclocking config to "sound better" :-). Maybe some
daring audiophile might want to do a blind test between my CRAAP config
compare to... Oh... The microRendu?

TIDA/MQA goes software decode as expected... And more CES 2017 hi-res
audio nonsense.

Hope everyone having a great start to 2017!

'MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 as USB Streamer (+ CRAAP config &
TIDAL/MQA arrives)'
(http://archimago.blogspot.com/2017/01/measurements-raspberry-pi-3-as-usb.html)



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hifiberry Digi+ Pro

[Archimago]

Squeezemenicely wrote: 
> Anyone have this yet? Does it really make a difference having the
> seperate oscillators?
> I have the standard version and am wondering if I should upgrade.
> 
> But have absolutely no idea, what the exact difference soundwise this
> would/could make.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gesendet von iPad mit Tapatalk

Should make jitter measurements better... But I doubt it'll be audible
unsighted. Nevertheless, it is an inexpensive upgrade.

If you have a choice, just use an asynchronous USB DAC from the Pi. Much
better than any S/PDIF from an objective measurement perspective -
again, not that I think in blind listening you're going to hear whatever
jitter differences.



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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] So they recommend Cat8 ethernet cables now!?

[Archimago]

Oh my. Wireworld Cat8 ethernet cables for sound quality now!?
http://www.audiostream.com/content/wireworld-starlight-cat8-ethernet-cable

Interesting comment/question by "Solarophile" about TCP error
correction. He should have a look at this:
http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/05/measurements-music-servers-possibly.html

I see no justification that ethernet error plays a role in sound quality
over a gigabit network even with an inexpensive ODROID-C2 SBC; much less
the powerful laptop the guy was using! Even transferring with UDP over 6
hours, there was barely any issue with error in the packets. Don't see
how/why anyone should worry about TCP transmission.

Alas, I would respond but the site doesn't seem to appreciate a more
objective approach to things that might be at odds with the faith that's
preached... Go figure...

Happy December, folks!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 & HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro...

[Archimago]

Wombat wrote: 
> There is a follow up:
> http://archimago.blogspot.de/2016/10/measurements-hifiberry-dac-pro-pcm5122.html
> Nice that you extended the test and have some words about how alone
> "less ringing" in the name of the filter may trigger the audiophile
> brain most certainly more as any technical or even audible benefit.
> Guess Linear Power and alike terms do the same.

Thanks Wombat.

Indeed, we have to be careful I think about the wording people use and
recognize that with these time domain impulse response graphs, there's
always a price to pay in the frequency domain... Advertisers and
magazine writers interestingly almost never point this out. Of course
this is inconvenient for folks who want to show their beautiful
non-ringing impulse images and sweep the fact that the DAC has all kinds
of ultrasonic aliasing products!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 & HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro...

[Archimago]

arnyk wrote: 
> Interesting data point. As the report  mentions, one possible area of
> concern is the device's approximate -80 dB suppression of spurious
> responses and noise.  This is about 16 dB poorer than CD quality (-96
> dB)  but about 20 dB better than a typical real world threshold of
> audibility (-60 dB). 
> 
> These days true CD quality performance (ca. -96 dB)  is available at the
> analog outputs of an < $100 BD player which usually includes a network
> (LAN+WAN) media player with considerable power and flexibility.
> 
> Not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison, but not too far off when all
> costs are included would be the performance of an Intel NUC  micro-PC's 
> the Realtek ALC283 on-board chip audio system:
> 
> http://stn-bc.ru/?q=node/835
> 
> "
> To assess output sound path designed for headphones or external
> speakers, we resorted to the instrumental testing using an external
> sound card Creative E-MU 0204 USB and utility RightMark audio Analyzer
> 6.3.0. Testing was conducted to stereo mode, 24-bit / 44.1 kHz. 
> As a result of testing the audio section in the laptop Acer Aspire
> R7-371T was rated "very good." Full report with the test results in RMAA
> 6.3.0 software on a separate page, the following is a brief report. 
> 
> Frequency response (in the range of 40 Hz - 15 kHz), dB 
> 0.02, -0.09 Excellent 
> 
> Noise level dB (A ) 
> -86.4 good 
> 
> dynamic range, dB (A) 
> 86.2 good 
> 
> THD,% 
> 0.0057 Very good 
> 
> THD + noise, dB (A) 
> -74.2 Mediocre 
> 
> Intermodulation distortion + noise,% 
> 0.030 good 
> 
> Crosstalk dB 
> -85.8 Excellent 
> 
> Intermodulation at 10 kHz,% 
> 0.017 Very good 
> 
> Overall very good 
> "

Hi Arny,
Not sure which part in the testing you're referring to with -80dB. If
it's in reference to the "digital filter composite", I think that's a
result of the limitations of the digital antialiasing filter in handling
that extremely high amplitude wide bandwidth white noise and the
occasional inter-sample over when doing the upsampling.

Overall though from the Rightmark results, the HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro will
*easily* beat that NUC! Plus this device will be able to handle 24-bit
audio with noise floor lower than -105dB in the audible spectrum...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 & HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro...

[Archimago]

sckramer wrote: 
> The D+PRO is not my daily driver, and I'm more interested in the digi+,
> digi+pro, and i2s-- where I find bypassing power is a fundamental
> improvement. So really can't say if stock USB power vs. 5V/3.3V LPS
> improves on the D+PRO...Buuut I've set this up just in the last few
> days, for another project involving making a good a/b testing platform
> for the Kali FIFO buffer (long story). So maybe I'll listen, then go to
> USB & see if it's diff.
> 
> However, noticed in your testing, you always go through USB (not GPIO)--
> On the digi+ using linear power vs the stock USB power wart *thru the
> USB* didn't audibly change anything... also Hans mentioned this in his
> vid re: (usb/GPIO) whereas thru USB made no change.
> 
> You can see my setup somewhere in the linux section, Kali... there's a
> pic.. I'm borrowing my 4x LPS's (LT3042 based, and cheap) supplies to
> play with this--
> 
> I'm cool if it measures the same, but would really like to see you
> re-run the tests taking it all the way thru GPIO, see my setup -- Then
> maybe play with the digi+/digi+ pro also :D
> 
> Thanks for the great tests as usual!

HI screamer. 
I don't have the Digi models so would not be able to speak about that.
Would be very interested of any blind A/B testing results you may have.
Of course for this post, I was just looking at ethernet streaming to the
DAC.

For the most part, I have not used SPDIF of any sort other than as
convenience (like TosLink out from my TV) for years on the audio side.
Objrctively, coax and TosLink have more objective jitter and I find USB
more consistent from a sound quality perspective. This is why I've
measured USB or ethernet more over the last few years and used USB for
playback where available. Of course that's not to say I believe I can
clearly hear a difference...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...

[Archimago]

MadScientist wrote: 
> Well, for those who wish to try it, there should be available material
> shortly.I remain open minded about the format but if it encourges
> better audio mastering practices that has to be a bonus.   
> 
> 
> http://www.audiostream.com/content/what-mqa#iWT9o5sylEKO2eO3.97

I remain skeptical that the *entire* Warner catalogue has been
converted. That's gotta be ALOT of material and that would be amazing if
they could convert it all within months like this! More likely is 'Dr.
AIX's comments about conversion of the 3500'
(http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5864) "hi-res" material. Unless
specified, none of this suggests special care in encoding. Just
reconversion of previously available material but in a smaller partially
lossy container because they don't want us to actually have the 24/96 or
24/192 data which inevitably they'll use to sell us another version down
the road. (No, I don't think this is cynical, it's likely the truth
based on comments from the Industry.)

Anyways, I couldn't help but put up another blog post on MQA after RMAF
2016:
'MUSINGS: Keeping it simple... MQA is a partially lossy CODEC.'
(http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2016/10/musings-keeping-it-simple-mqa-is-codec.html)

As consumers, I believe we have the power to "suggest" what we want or
need. Not this spoon feeding of questionable "technology" as if it's yet
another "revolution". Ultimately, we have the power to vote with the
credit card of course.



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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 & HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro...

[Archimago]

Hey guys. Just posted some measurements on the Pi3 + HiFiBerry DAC
combo. I suspect many of us here are already doing this kind of thing
with Pi computers and various other SBC's. Certainly makes an
inexpensive system for a Squeezebox replacement with piCorePlayer
installed...

http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/10/measurements-raspberry-pi-3-hifiberry.html



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Where can I get some kool-aid?

[Archimago]

Hey Ralph,
Finding Kool-Aid again is very much like an ex-cult/religion member
finding "the way" again...

---

Oh ye of little faith. Cast aside thy apostate ways and come rejoin the
fold!

For penance since you have upset the Almighty Stereophile, go buy a
minimum $1000 power cable and say 20 "Hail Absolute Sounds".

Don't forget to tithe regularly - just look at the list of charities
listed in the Advertiser section. Bring more believers to purchase a
MicroRendu here and there will add to your treasures in Audio Nirvana.

Be at peace... Om



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Alternatives to MQA - "Bit freezing"

[Archimago]

Wombat wrote: 
> For MQA we read many sceptic comments but some claim to hear advantages
> in detail and lower distortion be it the secret sauce or just because it
> is a newer remaster does not matter.
> Every attempt like bit-freezing may solve a bandwith issue but won't be
> taken serious.

Yes. Never underestimate the power of name recognition like Bob Stuart
and Meridian or the power of the press and those who follow. Of course,
at this point in history I'm not sure how powerful the audiophile press
really is or whether many in the hobby even listen to what they say
without large doses of NaCl...

The fact is that we in forums like this or blog posters are "the fifth
estate" and I believe the voices of rationality does have power to sway
perception and ultimately the direction this hobby goes in. Clearly,
when it comes to the mainstream media, they want to endorse MQA no
matter how unlikely the technique is able to achieve its claims (and I
believe the magazine folks know of their precarious endorsement). I
really think it's times like this where as voices of opposition we can
make headway in educating other hobbyists about the nature of digital
audio. To explore claims like how many bits are needed, or whether the
digital filter parameters really make a significant difference, etc...
Ultimately, I do hope that audiophiles recognize that it's in the
mastering and production side which needs to change to achieve better
sound quality... Not yet another format claiming "hi-res", and yet
again, putting the onus on consumers to *spend *more and achieve nothing
but promises.

As for MQA, we really should just keep challenging Stuart, et al. to
just release a decoded 24/192 MQA file compared to say a downsampled
24/44(48) of the original so we can A/B compare the two based on similar
bitrates. Not good enough for a few old cheerleaders to testify that
they heard "remarkable improvements". The 24/192 will implement the MQA
digital filtering already along with whatever lossy ultrasonic
reconstruction they well desire.

Logically, we should also keep inquiring as to how they believe MQA
achieves "end-to-end" authentication when speakers themselves will
affect temporal alignment and "blurring" so much more. Not to mention
how it is that they can claim to "de-blur" studio projects with multiple
tracks, all kinds of mics and ADCs, as well as temporal/phase shifts
with DSP plugins and ProTools, etc...

The more questions and vocabulary that the audiophiles out there know,
the more likely the press and industry might want to address the real
issues. (At least that's my delusion :-).



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Peter Belt Morphic Link Paper Clips

[Archimago]

andy_c wrote: 
> I browse Audio Asylum from time to time, and I saw this one on a forum
> called "Isolation Ward" ("Iso"). :)
> 
> Once in a blue moon I get some good information from AA.  I found out
> about the 1jazz.ru group of Russian jazz stations from there and have
> been listening to the 1jazz.ru hard bop station a ton lately.

Iso ward, eh? Well... Can't say there wasn't some level of insight I
suppose! I agree though, there are some useful nuggets on AA once
awhile.

Julf: I agree that there's no point pointing out facts to the conspiracy
theorists, it often drives them deeper into the systematized paranoid
delusional themes... These "true audiophile" guys seem to be
qualitatively different in that they don't seem paranoid as much. It's
more idiosyncratic thinking based on faulty fundamentals most of the
time mixed with neurotic anxiety-based uncertainty that the sound isn't
optimal - hence the need to tweak and "experiment" with all kinds of
stuff while not appreciating the limits of perception and cognition.

With a bit of effort and a graceful "way out", I have seen a few guys
come around to a more rational approach and eventually abandon the
bizarre. That's of course if anyone feels the need to be a "therapist"
in these cases :-).



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Alternatives to MQA - "Bit freezing"

[Archimago]

Interesting but not surprising.

Yeah, truncate down to 17-bits... Maybe do a little dithering in that
last LSB. Keep the samplerate at 96kHz. Then implement a gentle filter
above 25kHz or so... Voila, higher than CD dynamic range. Good
compression ratio. Probably as good as MQA.

No surprise of course. And we can dream up of all kinds of variations to
these schemes. The only question is whether MQA has any "secret sauce"
in their DSP processing and this whole "de-blur" process as per Wombat.

After close to 2 years, I'm mainly interested in 2 questions: "Where's
MQA?" And "Is it DOA?"



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Peter Belt Morphic Link Paper Clips

[Archimago]

Mnyb wrote: 
> I remember this crap from way back ? Still around ?
> 
> Even the cable believing tube audiophiles laughed ? But really today ,
> it thought he be surpassed by people with better and slicker marketing
> that makes things sound semi plausible ?
> 
> And for the loony fringe of the loony fringe , we always have geof kart
> of machine dynamics ( or what he calls it ) , so I thought PWB was
> forgotten history .
> 
> Like some fellows that switched from oral galvanism to the more popular
> allergy against electromagnetic fields ( I did not make that one up ,
> some id this and still can't fathom that they may have another
> problem(s) ) :D
> 
> People who are suckered to believe in foo stick to the currently popular
> foo and switch all the time , again without connecting the dots Wow
> , a pattern anyone ?

Amazed that the Belts are still at this! I would have thought they'd
have retired by now.

The reality I believe is that we of course can never expect a day where
these kinds of strange beliefs and "believers" do not surface here are
there. I think in extreme cases like this and the Machina Dynamica
stuff, we are probably looking at shades of thought disorder which are
potentially delusional in nature if these people truly hold these claims
to be true. I would very much like to see a picture of the Belt's
soundroom and examine where they put the red crosses to deface logos,
paper clips to their album covers and books, and of course foils of all
sorts and colors on the equipment itself!

The best we can do is educate...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Devialet Phantom Speakers

[Archimago]

Lucmichaud wrote: 
> Forget the tech talk. Just go and listen to them.
> 
> They may not be the absolute best speakers, but nothing under 10,000 $
> comes close.
> 
> I heard them in Paris at their office with 24 bit files . I was
> impressed.
> 
> I have Wilson Sacha 3 speakers. I would not change, but if I had no room
> for them, I would get Phamtoms.
> 
> Luc

I have heard them twice already. Agree they sound good. But *nothing*
under 10k sounds close!? That's a pretty bold statement  that I'm sure
many would disagree with  :-).

personally think they look pretty ugly to me plus the wife would have
issues. A no go no matter how they sound!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] New study on vinyl buyers

[Archimago]

d6jg wrote: 
> I have quite a large vinyl collection and occasionally I still buy some
> second hand albums but only when whatever it is isn't available in
> decent form on CD. I don't buy new vinyl as its too expensive as stated
> earlier.
> 
> I don't like buying downloads - I still prefer CDs that I can rip & tag
> as I like.
> 
> That said there is something about vinyl that is irreplaceable in any
> other medium. It's not sonic quality for sure. For me it's the album
> cover. I never bother to read CD liner notes but I always read vinyl
> covers!
> 
> I do have friends. Honest.

I share the same opinion but I'm sure a much smaller collection - only
about 350 albums. Only started collecting in the last 2 years and at 44
I don't think I'm one of the older LP buyers. I also have a few friends
but probably not ones who write for the audiophile press :-). 

I like owning the art work mainly and have a few vinyl picture frames
for my first edition  LPs - I have 'Abbey Road' hanging in my sound
room.  I guess the physicality of the format provides a subjective sense
of linkage with history and the artist.

I rarely spin vinyl. Typically does not sound as good and certainly not
compared to a decent CD master with room correction...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...

[Archimago]

Mnyb wrote: 
> Yeah I suppose so , but even if they are biased by their belief that
> even better accuracy is needed ( which I don't believe ) they could
> easily do it in a non proprietary way within already existing formats,
> but then there is nothing to sell :)

Yup. It indeed is about the money.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...

[Archimago]

The funny thing Mnyb is that they know 16-bits 44kHz will give us time
domain accuracy in the picosecond range. They seem to be basing all this
on impulse response plots...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...

[Archimago]

drmatt wrote: 
> Yes I realised I made a typo. You win the prize for pointing it out! ;)
> 
> I do think it's a smart approach to a problem that most people don't
> care about. Trouble for MQA is that if you think you need more details
> than 16/44 then 99% will simply put up with 24/192 file sizes and not
> even care about the extra disk space. I fail to see who will buy a
> lossless high end compression codec when I read about people saying even
> flac sounds worse than wav files.. (and with the obvious fact that
> people have been endlessly complimentary about even good old 2.5 mbit
> six channel Dolby digital movie soundtracks for years).

Yup. Overall, you're correct about a solution nobody asked for... One
more thing - it's not "lossless" above the baseband 22/24kHz!

As per Mr. Stuart:
"• b) There is no foolery here: MQA does indeed *reconstruct a
remarkably close approximation to the original ultrasonic information*
from the lower bits of a 24-bit signal."

So remember, above essentially the CD/DAT part of the spectrum, it's a
*lossy reconstruction*. This is exactly what I expected despite all this
insistence that it's "lossless" and MQA's strange contortions on the
word "lossless". This is why I suggested to stream 24/48 if they think
"high res streaming" is of any benefit. Completely compatible and will
compress better!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...

[Archimago]

ralphpnj wrote: 
> Finally we agree!

Hang on boys. Don't be quick to agree :-)

It may be "smart" in a cunningly foxy kind of way...

But it's the size of poorly losslessly compressible  24/44. Not 16/44.
There's at least a 50% difference. Among other contentious issues...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter slow to boot - power supply issue?

[Archimago]

RonM wrote: 
> As noted, I bought two and paid for both the product and the shipping. 
> Shipping to Canada was actually as much as the product.  Then I got a
> notification from DHL that I needed to pay tax and customs processing on
> top, that is an extra $20.  Since tax is only 13% of the product cost,
> the processing fee is significant.  If the package had been sent by
> regular mail (Royal Mail as it is in the UK), there'd have been no
> processing fee and the postal delivery person would have come to my door
> to collect the tax (if collected at all).
> 
> Still bargain insurance, I guess, but annoying.
> 
> R.

Thanks from the note in Canada Ron. I might have to grab one of these as
well for "insurance". Gotta avoid that ridiculous processing fee!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hi-Fi News test of iFi Audio USB iPurifier2

[Archimago]

That's cool Julf. I don't care about the accolades of course. 

At least they bother to try some kind of A/B testing and willing to
publish a comment different from the "obviously better" dogma of the
evangelical testimonials.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Study finds ...

[Archimago]

Yes. Lots of text :-). 

Let's just lay it on the table and get it done with. The use of the
impulse response to justify FUD is one of the greatest 'controversies'
out there. 

As if we can actually hear the ringing for one. 

As if going through a sharp filter would actually excite tons of ringing
in actual music. 

And as if we should go ooo and  over yet another  DAC
because the designer programmed some mystical algorithm in his fancy
FPGA! 

Thanks for the tip on the Clapton. So I guess one could pay 30 bucks to
buy a 24/192 file with watermarking versus 10 bucks for a CD which at
best can be differentiated <53% of the time by researchers using
presumably great gear in a good room, with no watermarking to
potentially mar the sound... Hmm m...

This is just getting worse.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Study finds ...

[Archimago]

Ooo... I thought Neil Young proved this conclusively with musicians
(obviously they have fantastic awesome hearing!) riding shotgun in his
souped up Cadillac years ago!?

Written like a typical academic meta-analysis of course. Like Arny said,
52.3% with 17 studies (excluding Meyer & Moran), that's all they got!
Well, I guess it wasn't as close as the Brexit vote :-).

Noted and commented on in my blog post this week...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Does the Transporter get over burdened with 24/96 files?

[Archimago]

As the other said, no issues.

Never had a problem with FLAC -8. And these days run it with digital
room correction off a basic AMD A10 APU server through BruteFIR DRC off
a Linux virtual machine in Windows Server 2012.

Measurements also look good with no evidence of excess noise at the
higher sample rates either.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...

[Archimago]

jfo wrote: 
> ha haa reminder of days long ago! And then we have...
> 
> The smell of the rain-washed florin!
> The lure of the lira!
> The glitter and the glory of the guinea! 
> The romance of the ruble! 
> The feel of the franc! 
> The heel of the deutschmark!
> The cold antiseptic sting of the Swiss franc!
> And the sunburnt splendor of the Australian dollar!

Nice one boys.

Call me tradition... I just want my GOLD. :-)



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...

[Archimago]

Arny, thanks for the discussion on thresholds and the presentation. Good
stuff!

drmatt: "Actually I'd rather see a "thx like" mastering standard with
guideline volume levels and listening levels, than this specific MQA
thing as it seems like it's marginal in effectiveness. But any attempt
to introduce a standard might push the industry towards something more
complete and effective."

Yeah, I think something like this applied as a "standard" for which
high-resolution recordings can be certified as such might be
beneficial... Hard to imagine this happening though given how far down
Wonderland the consumer associations and how meaningless the "Hi-Res
Audio" logo and definition has become. The "branding" is already damaged
and continues to be nothing more than hype, playing on impressionable
audiophile insecurities who desire "big numbers" like 192kHz, 24-bits,
DSD128+... Folks like Neil Young and Bob Stuart are not helping the
situation.


As for MQA, I think it's pretty clear that it's DOA. With negatives
coming out of Schiit and PS Audio, and the obvious ridiculousness of
TAS's articles, the hype ain't working. This is good IMO. Unlike DSD
which is dying by virtue of just not delivering despite its time in the
sun, if audiophiles can stand up and call BS on stuff like MQA, then
*maybe* the industry can start to recognize that they better innovate
and that audiophiles are moving out of being audiophools. The same old
hype isn't going to work. Hopefully this also correlates with a more
mature audiophile hobby with more objective folks seeking understanding
rather than testimony and faith promulgated by the "mainstream
audiophile press".

Looking ahead, I'd be very curious if TIDAL actually ever delivers on
the MQA streaming audio. I would not be surprised if it never comes out
and just gets "delayed" -ad infinitum-. If I were Jay-Z, I'd be nervous
about pouring more money into the pit to deliver a product that few
would be able to access or care about... Nevermind that well encoded
high bitrate MP3 already sounds indistinguishable from lossless FLAC.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Lost jumper plate/strap for my Cerwin Vega xls 215s- advice please !

[Archimago]

Yup. Those Cardas jumpers look pretty.

But any short length of speaker cable will do... Maybe just some 12G
wire.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile power cables don't just seem like a scam - they actually are.

[Archimago]

ralphpnj wrote: 
> Simple answer: because the graphs can be produced. And by printing what
> appears to be serious measurements their purely subjective reviews are
> given that oh so important whiff of objectivity. Or to put it another
> way: smoke and mirrors.

:-)

I suspect there is a bit of this going on with that test... It's "proof"
that digital consists of square waves! For years, before looking into
that test and figuring out what they were doing (-90dB!), I remember
being reminded of this idea every time I looked at this test image.

Of course once I actually started to pay attention and actually thought
about the fact that they were doing -90dB at 16-bits did I realize that
it was actually a -great -thing to see a DAC be able to reproduce that
square wave cleanly and desirable objective evidence of good low-level
accuracy...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile power cables don't just seem like a scam - they actually are.

[Archimago]

drmatt wrote: 
> That guy likes to talk about himself.
> 
> Seems somewhat disingenuous to attempt to ascribe the "distortion" of
> the whole A-D-A digital recording and playback chain of a signal at
> -90db to the digital system itself, rather than the whole chain. And I
> wonder how bad an LP would reproduce the same signal?
> 
> They didn't appear to understand dynamic range.

The article makes a lot of claims about this Noel Keywood. Would be
interesting to see these articles like: ‘40% THD: Compact Disc – We
explode the low distortion myth’ (May/June 1985) to see what these
people were on about.

Perhaps this is the best clue:

-"Noel admitted that just stating that CD had 40% distortion was
about as meaningful as trying to say that it had negligible distortion,
but he pointed out that digital differs in one vital way from analogue.
And that’s in the fact that with analogue, as the signal level gets
louder distortion goes up, whereas with digital distortion drops as the
level goes up. At full volume, it is very low indeed, around 0.001%. But
at the levels we mostly listen at, distortion is far from low. His tests
showed that the ear can easily hear signals recorded at a level of -65dB
below full output (0dB) where he measured distortion on the CD player at
around 4% – a far cry from 0.001%! At -90dB, we got a distortion level
of 38.5% THD [total harmonic distortion]. He also pointed out that where
with analogue distortion harmonics are 'even order' and pleasing to the
ear, all of the significant distortion on digital is 'odd order' and
extended right up to 20kHz, which is particularly nasty to the
ear."-

So the dude measures distortion levels in a 16-bit format at -65dB. Very
low level! So he's basically only using the lowest 6-bits! Is that what
they did? And given that CD players / DACs in 1985 were incapable of
full 16-bit accuracy, it looks bad with at best 36dB dynamic range. And
lots of noise, etc... And says this is is a flaw of the digital
system!?

Indeed. These guys should try recording some -65dB signal below the peak
allowable amplitude on a piece of vinyl and tell us how it sounds - if
it's even audible above the surface noise at all!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 16bit or 24 bit DAC..?

[Archimago]

sckramer wrote: 
> Hi Archimago,
> 
> I ran across those strange TDA dacs, based on that old chip also --
> here's the one I saw:
> 
> what do they sound like?

Hey Sckramer, cool man! A single chip version :-). I guess ya gotta save
on the power usage with batteries.

Well, I do have a 4-chip TDA1543 I measured awhile back (bought for $60
on eBay):
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/02/measurements-muse-mini-tda1543x4-nos.html

I'm not a fan of the NOS sound. I think some folks like them for
sounding "pleasant" with the dip in high frequency response. There's
also the issue of aliasing distortion. I'm tempted to check out the
filter characteristics of that DAC again since those measurements were
made many years back. These old chips are supposedly of poor linearity
hence the use in multiple parallel configuration to improve accuracy of
the conversion.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 16bit or 24 bit DAC..?

[Archimago]

drmatt wrote: 
> "Audiophiles" are people too... ;)
> 
> I had a couple of old Philips players once, and subsequently an Arcam
> player with a 16 bit DAC. Enjoyed the Arcam but I wouldn't call it
> uniquely capable versus newer 24 bit systems. I would say it had a
> particular type of distortion that's enjoyable if you like rock/dance
> music..

Hey Matt... And I consider myself an "audiophile" as well. So I
certainly appreciate not being exclusive or brushing all "audiophiles"
with a single brush :-).

Speaking of these TDA154x designs, here's one just at the recent Munich
show:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/computer-audio-design-cad

A mere 7200 -pounds-. Pocket change. Interesting the article says it
accepts 24/192. Unless they're doing something fancy, these are 16-bit
parts of course from the early 1990's.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 16bit or 24 bit DAC..?

[Archimago]

Yeah, the only 16-bit DACs you're likely going to find "new" these days
are based on old NOS DACs like the old Philips TDA154x designs.

Some audiophiles seem to like them... Certainly "different" rather than
"better"!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiostream's "Silent Majority"

[Archimago]

Julf wrote: 
> No idea. 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. Would not be that hard to have a date on it...

This I'm sure was done on purpose. $7000 monoblocks are timeless :-).



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] advice needed: Audiolab m-dac or m-dac plus with SBT?

[Archimago]

Hey Tusken,
I concur with BadBoy, I'd get the second hand with the deep discount as
well - the deeper the better :-). Assuming it's in great shape and all
of course...

After years of owning a DAC capable of USB 32/384 and DSD128, I've never
found myself in need of these extreme sampling rates and the Logitech
Transporter's 24/96 is more than good enough. This is even with the fact
that I have a number of DSD albums as well. I also routinely downsample
24/192 music because the vast majority are not real 192kHz recordings or
are obviously not of high enough quality to deserve that kind of
bitrate.

Questions:
-1. if i use the coaxial or the toslink to output from the touch -i can
output 24/192 to the m-dac anyway -so the question is, just how
important is the ability to have specifically usb 24/192?-
- It's not important in my opinion. Like Julf said, one should really
not hear any significant difference especially with a good internal DAC
chipset like the Sabre32 9018.
-
2. am i really going to notice a difference between usb 24/192 and
coaxial 24/192?-
No IMO. If you want to get technical, most likely objective data would
suggest jitter would be better with the asynchronous USB interface. But
I don't believe a good DAC like this should have audible jitter.

Have a great time with the new DAC!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiostream's "Silent Majority"

[Archimago]

Julf wrote: 
> 'Nagra PSA (Pyramid Stereo Amplifier)'
> (http://www.tonepublications.com/review/nagra-psa-amplifier/)

Nice. :-).

Now here's a question. What year was that article? I hate it when a
website has no date on the article to orient oneself with...



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile power cables don't just seem like a scam - they actually are.

[Archimago]

Julf wrote: 
> http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5680
> 
> "I'm going to start a YouTube channel and podcast this summer and will
> be challenging some of the claims made by companies selling snake oil.
> Power cords are on my list. If anyone...and end user or dealer or
> manufacturer...can lend me a very expensive power cord, I would love to
> be able to do a scientific comparison between a "state-of-the-art" power
> cord and one the one that came with my Benchmark DAC2 (which is what
> they recommend be used with their gear). It is possible to measure any
> differences between them. My guess is that they won't be any
> different...but I'll try to keep an open mind."
> 
> I hope he still writes up his experiences too, I am more of a reader
> than a youtube-watcher.

Nice. More power to Mark for keeping the posts coming and the pressure
on despite the legal "shot across the bow" lately.

Whether rational folks eventually reclaim the mainstream representation
of this hobby or not is unclear in the face of the financial forces and
years of madness... But it's worth a shot and can be plenty fun trying!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile power cables don't just seem like a scam - they actually are.

[Archimago]

Well I just hope this doesn't stop the blogging activities and
no-nonsense discussions on his site.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Guys... Get a load of this! :-)

[Archimago]

sckramer wrote: 
> The guys loaded, even got one in his hand.

:-) Yes, I'm sure he does well for himself!



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile power cables don't just seem like a scam - they actually are.

[Archimago]

Well boys. Looks like Nordost issued a "cease and desist" on the good
doctor.

Not surprising... Gotta be careful. This is why I make my own
measurements and ask that the "believers" and manufacturers show me
where I have gone wrong and publish their own results.

Looks like the lawyers made a few bucks. I hope it doesn't go any
further (I suspect unlikely to go further than this).



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Guys... Get a load of this! :-)

[Archimago]

If I were in the business of high-fidelity, I'm sure I'd be wrestling
with the nasty line between -psychological perception- which sadly is
much of what high-end audio is these days - the promotion of said
perception in service of the need for revenue, sales, the bottom line
and what one must do to achieve it.

And engineering truths.

If we allow ourselves to be bold enough to "call a spade a spade", I
believe subjectivity is the "mechanism" that allows the hope of
guilt-free relief from this razor-thin margin in some instances.

Having said this, and in full disclosure, I must say that I have had
numerous E-mails with Juergen and appreciate his input on many topics on
the blog as well as just day to day chatter (which is a great part of
getting to know various folks in this hobby through the blog). No doubt
a very smart engineer and business man; with opinions and personality
which we are of course all entitled to :).



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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Guys... Get a load of this! :-)

[Archimago]

I know it's total click bait because the site really doesn't have
anything new to offer/say, but check out this post:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/just-2-comments

Gee... Anyone wonder that maybe there are no comments sometimes because
the people who might want to comment have been banned!?



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hi-Res or not Hi-Res at Qobuz - thisis the question.

[Archimago]

arnyk wrote: 
> ;-)
> 
> Good point. The ultimate test of any audio file is whether or not it can
> be detected in comparison using a level-matched, time synched ABX test
> comparing it to a file of the same music with reliable provenance.
> 
> Difference testing and other tests based on mathematical comparisons are
> not reliable because they can an give positive results whether the
> difference is audible or not.

True. 

But the snake oil salesmen are selling things that not only didn't work
for the "ailment" but the contents even taste just like water, chemical
analysis shows us it's water, although packaged in a nice medicine
bottle.



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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hi-Res or not Hi-Res at Qobuz - thisis the question.

[Archimago]

That's just sad. As usual, without decent quality control the whole
hi-res thing is a fail especially when they let stuff like this happen
with watermarking... Upsampled audio, questionable provenance, dynamic
compressed mastering, now watermarking. All when it's questionable even
if well done hi-res has audible benefits.

Do we have a sense of how prevalent the watermarking is in terms of how
many percent of albums are affected? If high, I'd certainly be avoiding
certain labels that partake in this nonsense. It'd be interesting if
there's a database of these albums out there...



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