Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] To pre or not to pre
jaysung;410341 Wrote: > That is the question. > Directly into main amps or have you got a pre? > Why? Ok, 2 of 3 of my systems go direct, one uses a preamp. The preamp is for selecting between multiple analog sources becuase I didn't want to use the DACs of the home theater surround sound processor for music - I like the Transporter better. Also, the Transporter XLR output does not have built in attenuation, so the preamp helps to match system gain, since I use XLR on the Tp for a better noise floor. If you want to go direct, check out the 'ConnectToPowerAmp' (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/ConnectToPowerAmp) wiki page, which outlines most of the issues/questions/concerns/justifications for attenuation. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Pass Labs X2.5-Bel Canto Evo6 Gen II-Paradigm Signature S8 SB3-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Kingrex T20-Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v.4 Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=61821 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A/B SB3 vs Transporter
El Duderino;409346 Wrote: > I was simply asking if using the XLR outputs influences the volume. Priceless reply. But I don't think anyone answered your actual question. You should expect XLR outputs to be +6 dB above RCA connections. In addition, but more variably, -nominal- line level between RCA (consumer) and XLR balanced (professional) can vary up to 12-14 dB. Maximum levels differ as well. Its variable because not all vendors implement it the same way, unfortunately. Further insight for SB3/Tp is available on the 'ConnectToPowerAmp' (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/ConnectToPowerAmp) wiki page. So level matching with a sound meter as you have done is critical for testing, and you should not expect equal settings on the two devices for different connection types. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Pass Labs X2.5-Bel Canto Evo6 Gen II-Paradigm Signature S8 SB3-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Kingrex T20-Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v.4 Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=61686 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] T class amplifiers
So are all these little low power amp manufacturers living off old stock or something? -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Pass Labs X2.5-Bel Canto Evo6 Gen II-Paradigm Signature S8 SB3-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Kingrex T20-Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v.4 Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=59916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] T class amplifiers
I use a Kingrex T20 to drive my bedroom speakers. Tripath amp. Works perfectly to replace the old hulking Rotel class A amp that blew a channel and took a B&W Matrix 805 main driver with it. While Tripath is dead as a company, the chips still seem to be available. I have not been able to find out why - Cirrus Logic bought the IPR of Tripath (whereas Tripath the corporation disappeared in an odd reverse take-over, presumably for its stock listing). But Cirrus doesn't appear to list the tripath chips that I can find. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Pass Labs X2.5-Bel Canto Evo6 Gen II-Paradigm Signature S8 SB3-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Kingrex T20-Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v.4 Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=59916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital Preamp w. Remote Volume Control
Didn't know about the DA11, thanks. Bel Canto, yes, I want, but the price... sheesh... -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Pass Labs X2.5-Bel Canto Evo6 Gen II-Paradigm Signature S8 SB3-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Kingrex T20-Paradigm Reference Studio 20 v.4 Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=59154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Thoughts on using Transporter as "Digital Pre-amp"
Phil Leigh;392643 Wrote: > You can use ANY TACT room correction pre-amp just as a very HQ 24-bit > digital level control+input selector (with remote!) Good idea, thanks. How about using a Transporter? Any current opinions? -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Pass Labs X2.5-Bel Canto Evo6 Gen II-Paradigm Signature S8 SB3-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Kingrex T20-B&W Matrix 805 Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41137 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Thoughts on using Transporter as "Digital Pre-amp"
What's the status on using a Tp as a digital preamp these days? I believe you still can't name inputs. Are there any notable bugs left in firmware related to this use? Thanks. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Pass Labs X2.5-Bel Canto Evo6 Gen II-Paradigm Signature S8 SB3-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Kingrex T20-B&W Matrix 805 Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=41137 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital Preamp w. Remote Volume Control
Does anyone have recommendations for a digital preamp with a remote volume control? I am looking for multiple digital inputs, variable XLR output, and a remote controlled volume control for attenuation. I know of Benchmark, Apogee, Lavry but neither provide remote volume control. The Bel Canto DAC3 has XLR outputs and remote volume control. I tried out the Citypulse 7.2x, which appears to have all the right features, but it has a long list of not well documented limitations. For example: - RCA input won't go to the XLR outputs - XLR output is fixed only - volume control impacts headphone and RCA variable outputs only. I also found the noise floor on the RCA variable to be unacceptably high for my purposes (XLR was great). A used Transporter crossed my mind as well as another alternative... Any other suggestions? I am trying to keep this <$1500 MSRP. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Pass Labs X2.5-Bel Canto Evo6 Gen II-Paradigm Signature S8 SB3-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Kingrex T20-B&W Matrix 805 Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=59154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Behringer DEQ2496 in Transporter digital loop for room correction?
Robin Bowes;307650 Wrote: > Eric Carroll wrote:[color=blue] > fw40, and fw42 are not production grade, i.e. there are known issues > Thanks very much, it looks like it is time to upgrade then. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Krell Showcase-Bel Canto EVo6 GenII x2-Paradigm Signature S8/C1/C5/BD 500 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Preamp w. unity gain bypass
gordiem;293587 Wrote: > 1. Are you familiar with the the PRe2P and, if so, what is your opinion > of it. yes, I know it but have not listened to it. It didn't meet my needs > for similar/matching SNR performance as the TP. PRE2 is 80 dB SNR while the TP is about 125 dB SNR. I love that absolutely quiet noise floor you get with excellent SNR at high volume and balanced interconnects. gordiem;293587 Wrote: > 2. Can I use it in the manner he suggests, and can you explain unity > gain in terms that I can understand. Sure, unity gain means that on the SSP > setting the volume is controlled by the SSP not the preamp. THis is a useful feature, but not absolutely required. gordiem;293587 Wrote: > 3. Is the $2000 range a good price for this piece used. That is in the > ballpark. You could check audiogon or usedprice.com if you want to know blue book values for sure. gordiem;293587 Wrote: > 4. Is there a "burn-in" period for the phono stage alone. I've read > that it may take 100 hours or more, and this guy says he hasn't used > the phono section...hence his reason for giving it up for a PRe2 with > no phono. Oh dear audiophile holy war territory. Some say yes, some say no. I have never heard a coherent technical explanation of burn in on things without tubes, and I prefer my physics grounded in actual science, but hey, that's just opinion right? I have pretty much settled on a Pass Labs X2.5 for myself... -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Krell Showcase-Bel Canto EVo6 GenII x2-Paradigm Signature S8/C1/C5/BD 500 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Behringer DEQ2496 in Transporter digital loop for room correction?
Mr_Sukebe;308004 Wrote: > > In short, if you have a decent room, don't bother as it'll be more > damaging than useful. In a really naff room, can be very useful. I have a very good room with excellent treatment. I have a nasty 31 Hz mode that vibrates the house that I need to pull out. It is just the <100 Hz area I need to treat. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Krell Showcase-Bel Canto EVo6 GenII x2-Paradigm Signature S8/C1/C5/BD 500 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Behringer DEQ2496 in Transporter digital loop for room correction?
Robin, I thought fw40 was still unstable, is it safe to go into the water now? Is there anything special to getting this going? I have a DEQ2496 and want to wire up the Tp through it using AES in a digital loop configuration. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Krell Showcase-Bel Canto EVo6 GenII x2-Paradigm Signature S8/C1/C5/BD 500 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=48350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attenuators-recommendations
rydenfan;271268 Wrote: > Wow, this is kind of dissapointing news. My TP from Dan is arriving > tomorrow and I cannot believe I will not be able to fully enjoy it :( > I guess I will have to do a frantic search to try and find an XLR pair > as fast as possible. This sucks... It depends on the sensitivity of the amp. See the wiki page created some time ago: 'Direct Connecting to a Power Amp' (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?ConnectToPowerAmp). There is a section on attenuators which includes XLR options. If your runs are short and you have no ground loops you can use the RCA built-in attenuation on the Transporter. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Krell Showcase-Bel Canto EVo6 GenII x2-Paradigm Signature S8/C1/C5/BD 500 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42698 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Attenuators-recommendations
There is a writeup on all this in the Wiki. For attenutators for use in direct power amp connection, see the 'Connect to Power Amp' (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?ConnectToPowerAmp) wiki page. It also covers calculating the attenuation you need. I have a pair of GoldenJacks on my SB3 and use the built-in attenuation of the Transporter. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Krell Showcase-Bel Canto EVo6 GenII x2-Paradigm Signature S8/C1/C5/BD 500 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42698 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Preamp w. unity gain bypass
Unfortunately does not suport HT bypass... That's unfortunate as otherwise it looks excellent on paper and was well reviewed. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Krell Showcase-Bel Canto EVo6 GenII x2-Paradigm Signature S8/C1/C5/BD 500 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Preamp w. unity gain bypass
jdh500;273208 Wrote: > I'm considering the Bel Canto Pre3 at the moment, it has an HT Bypass > feature, balanced input/output etc. > I am a big Bel Canto fan - I have the Evo6 Gen II amps and love them. Except for the price the pre3 and predecessors look amazing. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Krell Showcase-Bel Canto EVo6 GenII x2-Paradigm Signature S8/C1/C5/BD 500 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Preamp w. unity gain bypass
rydenfan;273377 Wrote: > I do know the new Parasound JC 2 has been receiving rave reviews. Rydenfan, Thanks for this, I was not aware of the JC2. It does not appear to have HT bypass, but the specs are excellent on it. Personally, I try to avoid the use of the Tp volume control as much as possible, so perhaps HT bypass is not as critical as I initially thought especially if the SSP is using a digital volume control like the Tp does. Need to think more on this. I was not aware of the JC2, so thanks for the reference. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Krell Showcase-Bel Canto EVo6 GenII x2-Paradigm Signature S8/C1/C5/BD 500 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Preamp w. unity gain bypass
teejay;273002 Wrote: > I posted a 'similar question' > (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39320) a while back. Thanks for the reference, I will look through the thread. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Krell Showcase-Bel Canto EVo6 GenII x2-Paradigm Signature S8/C1/C5/BD 500 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Preamp w. unity gain bypass
rydenfan;273039 Wrote: > Eric, there are certainly a plethora of options available to you for > high quality 2 channel pre's with HT Bypass. My first few questions > would be solid state or tub? What is your budget? Do you run balanced > or un-balanced connection from your Transporter and to your amps? Hi Rydenfan. Good questions, I should have clarified those right off the bat. I prefer balanced for the physical locking of the connector both to the amp and to the sources. I currently have unbalanced and while it sounds fine (short runs) I often run into cabling issues resulting from loose connectors. I only need two sources right now (pre/pro and Tp). Digital definitely. I would expect to pay around 2K used. I currently have 2 Bel Cantos Evo6 GenII and a Krell Showcase pre/pro. I definitely would like a way to change sources remotely. Unity gain bypass for the pre/pro is a must. >From a specs perspective, it has to match or exceed the Tp, a tough challenge: - Signal-to-noise, Dynamic Range: 120dB - THD+Noise: -106dB (0.5%) This is one reason I went direct to power amp initially. I am aware of the Bel Canto pre3 and the Pass Labs products. I have also looked at the Parasound preamp (no balanced connections). Any suggestions welcome. For those using preamps, I am interested in hearing what people chose. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Krell Showcase-Bel Canto EVo6 GenII x2-Paradigm Signature S8/C1/C5/BD 500 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Preamp w. unity gain bypass
With the completion of construction of the new home theater (treated room and new speakers), I am rethinking how to deploy my transporter. I am currently experimenting with integrating it into my home theater directly using the Krell Showcase analog preamp bypass to integrate the Tp to my main L/R channels. I am thinking about seperating out the preamp, and running the Tp into a preamp with HT bypass (unity gain) especially if I upgrade the Krell to a new SSP with the fancy new decoders. One challenge I see is finding a really clean preamp with SNR that will do justice to the output of the Tp. Has anyone got any suggestions in this area for preamps to investigate? If this has been hashed over before please provide some links to threads. Thanks. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Krell Showcase-Bel Canto EVo6 GenII x2-Paradigm Signature S8/C1/C5/BD 500 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=43882 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which integrated Amp should I get?
I am a recent discoverer of Bel Canto digital amps. I recently bought some second hand EVo6 Gen2s. My next target is the the "perfect" small amp for my worlds largest distributed alarm clock. I am betting on the 'Bel Canto e.One S300i' (http://www.belcantodesign.com/prod_eOneS300i.html). Digital amp, 150wpc, integrated preamp, and an amazingly compact 8.5 W x 12.5 D x 3 H. If they are as good as my EVo6s this will be my perfect SB3 amp... -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39126 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] High Frequency tone in the noise floor on SB3 R channel
*Isaac*;227367 Wrote: > To try and reduce this I made a quick and dirty shield from aluminium > foil, insulated with mylar tape. I fitted this between the back of the > neon display and the PCB, then soldered a wire to the incoming power > ground. Nice work Isaac. I will add a link to your article to the wiki page. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32045 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] High Frequency tone in the noise floor on SB3 R channel
NewBuyer;227722 Wrote: > Does anybody know, if the Transporter has any similar issue? It does not. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32045 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] High Frequency tone in the noise floor on SB3 R channel
This was an old thread, with other threads tracking the issue more closely. This is a known issue, seen by Stereophile's review and acknowledge by Slim. The issue is that the gain is too high between your SB source and power amp. The resolution is to add attenuation between your SB3 and the power amp - either turn down your preamp or add passive attenuators. See the ConnectToPowerAmp wiki page in the "Other Power Amp direct connection problems" section. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32045 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Small profile amp recommendations?
lofty;219753 Wrote: > 3. Need to be able to hook an SB3 and my speakers directly to it. > This comes up frequently. As someone who runs their Tp & Sb direct to the amp, I have been looking for a good, high quality, *small* power amp to drive my B&Ws and replace the large Rotel Class A amp. Well, I think I found it, finally. Check out Bel Canto's Class D switching amp, the e.One S300 http://www.belcantodesign.com/prod_eOneS300.html. It comes both with and without an integrated preamp. Feedback appears very positive on it. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37451 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is there going to be a bang when I do this?
haunyack;55 Wrote: > In my case I found that attenuation is not necessary. > That's because your mismatch is only 0.5 dB, so you can safely ignore the difference. You might get a bit of distortion on that last .5 dB on the scale, but otherwise its no issue. Not everyone is this close. In the OP's case, the difference is about 2.5 dB. This is small enough you might want to use the Preamp Volume Control. But as the OP correctly stated, listening levels are lower, so he might want some attenuation to bring listening levels into the top end of the digital volume control scale. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Is there going to be a bang when I do this?
Limping_Pylon;222076 Wrote: > > the TP output is 3Vrms 100 ohms impedance and the Krell spec states > that the input sensitivity is 2.32 Vrms with 100K ohms input > impedance. > > Will this work ok or will there be a bang? > Check out the wiki page http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?ConnectToPowerAmp for issues and considerations. Passive attenuation may be recommended. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37796 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Repost: High definition downloads
See the following thread for some of the issues/questions/answers: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32951 Hopefully we will get it written up in a wiki page for reference - its a popular topic right now. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33345 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter and Nuforce monobloks
harmonic;185733 Wrote: > Hi > But would i need a preamp for best results maybe somthing like the tact > 2.2 xp and use the TP as a transport.? > > Or am i better of with keeping things as simple as possible and use the > TP as preamp ? > Opinions vary, as this is audiophile land after all. Some people love TACTs. Others love the minimalist approach. Using the TACT implies forgoing the Tp DAC, which in my opinion is the whole point of the Tp. you can always pair an SB3 with the TACT if you want to have a cheaper transport and use a seperate DAC. As you can tell, I am in the minimalist camp and go Tp to power amp directly using builtin passive attenuation. There has been a request of SD to enhance the Tp with a digital out loop capability to loop in the TACT digitally so you can get room correction and still us the Tp DAC. Check out the wiki pages for more details: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?BeginnersGuideToConnecting http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?ConnectToPowerAmp -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33327 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Skunk;185688 Wrote: > Unfortunately, as Eric pointed out, most people need a direct link, and > to have the info paraphrased for them. Nikhil, Skunk, I take doing my research and citing other people's work seriously, as I hope you can see from my previous hyperlinked postings. But I am not the only one working/contributed to this thread, a number of others have too. I think of this as a group effort. I don't think your work was overlooked, but it may have been. If your work/comments were overlooked, sorry about that, I am sure it wasn't intentional by anyone participating. I view this thread as amazingly productive compared to a number of other ones I have participated in here. Let's not lose sight of that. When threads come up again and again and people's efforts get missed, IN MY OPINION, it is because of the difficulty in finding and consolidating results for many different threads over time and many bulliten boards. Personally I looked at over a dozen threads on this topic to find out what was truth and what was people's guess. Also, in this process there is much guessing, supposition and opinion. Sorting it from fact is hard. Just because someone posted their opinion doesn't make it correct. That takes cross-referencing and checking others' results. One way to help this problem is to band together and write a wiki page that brings together all we have learned on this effort. That way the learning is consolidated into one place rather than scattered over a dozen threads and 4 different bulliten boards. It is not left hiding in the threads, to be revisted again in another year. As someone new to HDCD ripping this was my problem: I couldn't find it all in one place and there was a lot of what looked like opinion flying around. Any volunteers? I was going to do it, but if someone else would prefer, go for it. (Nikhil, I will respond to your thread seperately... gotta run now) -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
sheesh this is a tough crowd. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Digital or Analogue to fully digital receiver?
livelock;185544 Wrote: > should I connect my SB3 via analogue or digital to my receiver? Or do both if your receiver supports it; mine does. Then switch back and forth and decide which you like best. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33310 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Skunk;185540 Wrote: > LOL you're doing it again! (though it *is* a long thread). See my post > 12 to confirm your 'suspicion' :-) Yes, you highlighted ML's DSP implementation in that post. Sorry, I just forgot about it and saw it again in the posting reference you posted... Come on skunk give me a break it was 15 pages ago and a single sentence comment ... You know you can make hyperlinks of sentences to remind people of things using the [ url = hyperlink ] text [ /url ] syntax. I use it all the time to collect previous threads or postings without making the hyperlink intrusive. You can get the single post url using the post number in the top right corner of the posting... -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Skunk;185526 Wrote: > At any rate, software decoding of the discs on an as-needed basis seem > like the best solution. > > Any chance of a step-by-step in a separate thread (possibly in the > ripping forum, or a wiki entry) including screenshots of settings? Ya, I was going to consolidate this discussion into a wiki page once we were sure. The thread you cited is very interesting; I didn't find it in my searches. It basically confirmed my suspicion that this is now done in DSPs and you don't need a special chip for it. DSPs were in their infancy when HDCD became available almost two decades ago so its not surprising they went initially with custom silicon. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Nikhil;185185 Wrote: > My concern, in simple scientific terminology, is that this experiment > does not have a proper control. As Phil rightly pointed out, in absence > of any compression technique, file size will simply be a function of > track lenghth, sampling rate, and bit depth rather than musical > content. Hm, did I claim this was an experiment? If I did I understand your point. But I think this is reverse engineering. To your point, the "control" is yet to arrive - I have on order the V2 of the sampler disk. This disk has the same track done twice, once with and once without the HDCD encoding. I will run them through the 24b capture process and examine the waveforms. The expected results will be to see the waveform difference. That will be 100% conclusive. In the meantime I think Olav has nailed it... -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] digital domain volume control - that bad? (for DCX2496 use)
A poll associated with this post was created, to vote and see the results, please visit http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33217 Question: analog or digital? - analog: Rane AC23B active balanced analog crossover with Alps potentiometer doing volume - digital: Behringer DCX2496 with SB3 doing volume in digital domain There is a list of attenuator vendors to be found on the 'Connect to Power Amp' (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?ConnectToPowerAmp) wiki page. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33217 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Mark Lanctot;184640 Wrote: > If Eric is interested enough to drive 2 hours he can visit me in London > - I'll let him play with my Marantz receiver all he likes. I assume this means London On... Hi neighbour! I know Dennon implements HDCD in the receiver for some of the later models. Does your Marantz? My Pioneer does not. Sadly, my PC does not have digital in, just analog... -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDTT new download store
So how do people find the quality of the transfers? -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33156 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Can you tell the difference between mp3 and wav?
Mark Lanctot;185067 Wrote: > I'm surprised there hasn't been more interest in this. Mark, are you aware of 'hydrogenaudio.org' (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?act=idx)? There is lots of activity and interest over there on DBT & software tools to support such. There are freely available DBT tools for Unix and Windows currently available. They have links to sites that have test results for various DBT codec & compression comparisons, and tests underway. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32576 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Phil Leigh;184965 Wrote: > Olav - very interesting. A couple of thoughts: > 3) I still have my doubts that MS managed to write a software version > of the Microsonics HDCD chip... > While I was with you on this initially, after pulling the documents from the wayback machine I am not sure I agree anymore. Speaking from a theory perspective there is no reason except thrust (cpu performance) you can't do a chip in software. Having read the documentation, such as it is, it sure looks to me like a specialized DSP processor. I might be wrong... of course this doesn't mean that M$ implemented it fully. But if you get the same result on analog capture vs. 24b capture, that's pretty suggestive to me that they did, assuming all the features are enabled on the track Olav chose. Now, if we really have confirmed decode, the audibility of this is the issue. With digital versions of both we cam match levels digitally and using ABX software, decide if its the difference is in fact audible. Maybe I should write an ABX slimserver plugin ;-) -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Olav Sunde;184908 Wrote: > I've finally managed to do the comparison! This is great work and much appreciated. This sure looks like it worked to me. I think it tells us two things: - WMP10 really does successfully decode HDCD - some HDCDs really don't use all the features. I wonder what the 244KB difference in file size is? Did you have to start and stop the NAD recording by hand, I wonder? Now, the next question is of course if the HDCD vs non-HDCD are *audibly* different with matched levels. I have the sampler on order so I can reproduce your results, as it appears the HDCD I have does not use all the features. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter as two-channel pre-pro
gregeas;184728 Wrote: > Are you using balanced cables from Transporter to the amp? How do you > like the V4s? I have used both balanced and unbalanced from the Tp to the amp. Its a short run, I don't hear any difference. The rationale for using one vs the other to me is purely power amp line level matching and attenuation. The Tp has built in adjustable passive attenuation on unbalanced connections so if you do go direct you can use these to set your top end level. I consider the V4s excellent. They are my primary music listening loudspeakers. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33216 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter as two-channel pre-pro
That's how I run my system (see my sig). Check the wiki page 'Begginers Guide to Connecting' (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?BeginnersGuideToConnecting) and the wiki page 'Connecting to a Power Amp' (http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?ConnectToPowerAmp) for things to consider. I currently have -20dB passive attenuators on one system and am about to put -10dB passive attenuators on the other. Check out the list of passive attenuators you can use in the wiki page. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33216 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical connection - inferior by default?
Guys, I think your postings all crossed in mid-write and we are having a clock slip here ;-) I think sean was responding to pablolie not Andy. I think Andy's response to sean was because he thought it was to him not pablolie (sean's posts overlapped a couple). And opaqueice did you mistake Andy's posting for the subthread you were having with pablolie? I suggest a quick look backwards - I am just forcing the clock resync. :-) -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33146 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Skunk;184397 Wrote: > So if the SB feeds the receiver 16 bit files, HDCD can be output and > recorded as 24 bit to a cd or hdd recorder, for use in SB? > > I apologize if this was covered somewhere else. Skunk, I having been trying to figure out this post and the resulting thread. I am just confused, so could you clarify something for me? Do you mean the following chain: HDCD - 16b rip -> SB3 -> S/PDIF out as 16b -> HDCD Player/decoder (e.g. DAC w. HDCD) -> S/PDIF out as 24b -> PC S/PDIF in -> recorder -> disk Is this what you mean? Thanks. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Courtesy of the wayback machine, 'here' (http://web.archive.org/web/20020124220637/www.hdcd.com/partners/proaudio/AES_Paper.pdf) is a technical paper on HDCD from the 2001 web site. It takes a while to load. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Olav Sunde;184400 Wrote: > That is indeed my idea. I plan to include all the three versions in one > > view to make it easier to see the differences. Problem is I am having a > > little trouble finding a HDCD player I can use, but I am working on > it.. > Olav, Another option is to use the version II of the HDCD sampler which has both HDCD and regular tracks on it. I am going to order it to see what I can see. If you make progress on this let us know, please. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical connection - inferior by default?
325xi;184373 Wrote: > I don't remember I ever posted anything on Wiki pages. I normally don't > consider myself knowledgeable enough... I was refering to 'this posting of yours' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=182368&postcount=1) -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33146 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Skunk;184183 Wrote: > I planned to ask him about this topic on the list, I am very interested in this. Please ask and let us know even if only by PM. I think we need a confirmed "everything enabled" track and any thoughts on using WMP. Thanks! -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Phil Leigh;184351 Wrote: > Let's pick a CD... (ideally one where we know that range expansion IS > present - how do we prove that? ... I mean I know that the ones I > mentioned earlier sound great on an HDCD player, but..) I don't own an HDCD capable CDP. The way to prove it is play it back, get the HDCD icon on the CDP, run a line out into a 24b soundcard, 24b digitize it and look at the waveform. Compare to 24b capture. As I said above this is in essence what Olaf said he was going to do. Are you able to do this? Sheesh this is a lot of work. ;-) -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Phil Leigh;184351 Wrote: > > Let's pick a CD... (ideally one where we know that range expansion IS > present - how do we prove that? ... I mean I know that the ones I > mentioned earlier sound great on an HDCD player, but..) Our postings crossed. I edited mine with another suggestion. Do you have any of the tracks that the other two posters (headfi and hydrogen audio) used? If so you could check against that too. I don't have them I would have to purchase them. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Phil Leigh;184346 Wrote: > Erm...the analogue outpur of an HDCD player will have the effect of > dynamic range expansion present...what you need to do is to compare the > 16 bit rip of the HDCD to the WAVOUT 24-bit (unless I am missing > something?) I think what Olav meant was that he wanted to go to the analog source, match levels, and digitize it with a 24 bit sound card, and take a KNOWN decode to compare to the 24 bit capture to ensure the 24 bit capture is the same. I think this is a great idea if Olav will volunteer his time to do this, because then we have a known good 24b capture via the plugin and we know the captures really are successful decodes. Right now we are concluding that solely on waveforms of the capture. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Ya, the fibre is inferior by default discussion knocked me for a loop, causing me to drop the all important HDCD investigation :-) I am at the same place as you. To summarize. Skunk highlighted a posting in headfi where with waveforms that looks like it worked (but had some conversational chaff that initially confused me). I got someone at hydrogenaudio to post a waveform that looked like it worked. Olav posted in this forum that he did get a successful result, but did not post his waveforms. Skunk and others identify that some HDCDs don't use the compression component of HDCD. I have my waveform of Tublar Bells where I did not get any range expansion. I can't remember if you posted your waveform, but you indicated you did not see a successful decode. I upgraded to WMP10 and cleared my runtime issue and it didnt help, although I DID get the HDCD icon lit. So, if Olav comes back, we should all pick the same HDCD and try it and see if we get the same result, and triangulate on PC config as Skunk suggested. I want to be able to do this too. Its annoying me that I cannot get this to work. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical connection - inferior by default?
Phil Leigh;184337 Wrote: > Now look, you know full well that cable-induced jitter is related to the > length of the cable and this is different for coax and toslink...so how > are you going to compare apples with apples? > > :0) Lol Phil you jumped my point here and I was creeping up on it so nicely! So I will amend my post to say "equal length" cables. Then, what you will have is a test of the native jitter of the cable and we can discuss plastic fibre dispersion vs electrical impedance cable loading, and its gonna be tiny either way. And you have the transmitter/receiver, which is also tiny. But his question is not about impact, its about the underlying medium. I am just trying to clarify that is his in fact his question. I think what is going on here is that there are lots of audiophile posts of "jitter is bad" "toslink is bad". And so the natural engineering question is "what is the intrinsic differnece between the two". Its a fair question. It just doesn't answer the reason for all the audiophile comments about toslink. I had somewhat the same questions myself when I first started looking into this area. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33146 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical connection - inferior by default?
325xi;184327 Wrote: > ...I'm interested to find out the limit of jitter control of > LED-plastic toslink vs. coax - please note - regardless of its > audibility > > And of course I accept scientific basis. I don't believe in listening > tests unless arranged in a proper way. The test you suggested is by no > means scientific, and you acknowledged that first. AHA!!! I think we got hung up on language here then. Thank you for the clarification. If I misunderstood your position I think it was due to the language getting used in this discussion and its relationship to Audiophile beliefs - you did the post on the Wiki page so perhaps you understand what I mean here. When people say around here they don't believe in listening tests, it generally means they do not accept the scientific study of audibility and the engineering associated to that or that their principles are very different than the "objectivist" crowd. So, let me see if understand your question. If we took a signal, and split it to run through a S/PDIF standard LED and plastic fibre, and put the same signal through a 75ohm coax link, then looked at the receiver end and measured one standard deviation of jitter, which would be smaller? -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33146 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical connection - inferior by default?
325xi;184284 Wrote: > Eric mentioned that consumer Toslink does have higher jitter, but > because of his assumption we can't perceive jitter less then > ridiculously high :) +-0.5ns (that were nanoseconds, right?) he > expressed his little concern about that. I've already said what I think > about inaudibility assumptions. I'm somewhat concerned with that massive > feedbacks that people don't like Toslink, we may define it BS, but I'm > not sure those complains are totally baseless... So I'm Googling to > find out... Please don't misquote me. I didn't say that at all. I am saying the following: 1. toslink works. 2. Issues with plastic fibre and connectors were problems with consume grade equipment over a decade and half ago. These kinks have been resolved. 3. there is no *data* to support it does not work that I have seen, and I have looked. 4. S/PDIF is a protocol that runs almost the same on fibre, coax and balanced lines (AES/EBU). If S/PDIF is broken then all three are broken. No audiophile argues that coax is broken, just toslink (S/PDIF on fibre). 5. There is no engineering rationale to argue that fibre is worse than coax even on plastic fibre. 6. SD PUBLISHES their S/PDIF jitter tolerance for the Transporter. It is 35ps. This is stunningly low. 7. SD measured the jitter of the SB2 and published it in this forum. It was around 65ps as I recall. 8. Much of this whole discussion was triggered by Stereophile article quoted above. See the Audio Critic rebuttal. And I didn't say nanoseconds, I say microseconds. And, by the way, its not an assumption, I said there are papers on this issue. For example, 'here is a paper on this issue.' (http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/ast/26/1/50/_pdf). There are others I don't have handy right now. In other words, if you accept scientific investigation of this issue, then the achieved jitter of S/PDIF using the SD equipment is many orders of magnitude better than the requirement. I have not yet seen an audiophile arguement on this issue backed up by actual data or a study of any kind. I have only seen claims of personal listening preference and the Stereophile article, both of which echo around alot. If you "don't believe" in audibility testing and don't accept the scientific basis of looking into this issue, then we don't have common ground for further discussion. Feel free to select whichever one you have a personal preference for. Right now we are at the edge of the subjectivist/objectivist argument, and I won't enter into that. > > Good! Can you guys tell me why didn't you replaced all your coax > connections with Toslink - theoretically Toslink blows coax out of the > water? I preferentially use toslink, but a) it is more expensive b) not all my gear has optical connections c) not all my gear has coax connections d) some of my gear has more of one than other So I use both. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33146 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDTT new download store
Tbrooke;184204 Wrote: > I downloaded the demos a while back but they keep cutting out on my SB3. > > > Tom Brooke Are you wireless? Did you check your signal levels? These do stream at higher bit rates. You might want to enable the network test function and try some high bit rate performance tests to see if you can eliminate this as the issue. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33156 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDTT new download store
HDTT;184208 Wrote: > We have taken down the sampler it has been up for over a month, we are > going to have previews to listen very soon, they will have to be played > through Windows Media Player and of course they will be in low rez just > for preview purposes. > I found the sampler to be very helpful in setting expectations of what the full download would be like given it was a transfer from tape and not as is often the case fully digital one end to the other. You might want to consider offering a small sample per transfer at full bit rates, just so everyone can test drive it and understand the quality of that particular transfer. Just a suggestion. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33156 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical connection - inferior by default?
325xi;184203 Wrote: > Can you name it, the brand? Is it available online? > Well, pretty much any reputable network cabling company makes optical patch cables, plastic, multimode or single mode. For comparison, my speakers are connected with 12 AWG stranded copper cable from Home Depot. So, yes, its available - its absolutely nothing exotic. You know, you can try this out really easily yourself. You absolutely don't have to believe me. And, as far as I am concerned, this kind of experiment is fun. The SB3 and Tp both have coax and optical links out simultaneously active. Wire them both up to the destination device. E.g. my HT can select input type). Familiarize yourself with listening to your selected test track over both inputs (optical and coaxial) as much as you like. Cover your eyes and do something like the following (coopt the SO as an assistant): - have the assistabnt select coax vs. optical (so that you can't see it and they don't tell you) - write that selection down - play a test track (of your selection) - write down which you think it is. Do it a bunch of times (say 20). See if you can tell the difference. The key is for you to not know which one is selected when you take the test or get any hints from the assistant. Compare your guess to the selection. See if you correctly got significantly more than half of the attempts. This is admittedly not methodologically perfect at all, but it will sure give you some intuition about the issue, far more than listening to abstract discussions about fibre performance, optical emitter characteristics, the audibility limits of single bit errors and clocking errors. If you know which one you have selected when you listen, it doesn't count, because of all the issues I listed in my earlier posting. I have now just knowingly stepped on the ABX/DBT/SBT landmine and offended or annoyed several forum readers, so I this will be my last comment on the issue. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33146 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDTT new download store
agentsmith;184181 Wrote: > Also, I read about a sampler with extracts, but cannot find it on your > web site. I downloaded the sampler and it worked fine on my Transporter. The SB3 will downsample it to 48 KHz and should play fine. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33156 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
yikes, of course I meant head-fi. I have been on so many boards lately trying to figure out what I am doing wrong they are all blurring together, lol! And annoyingly it seems the mistake was disk selection, sigh. Ya, we should just pick a disk. Maybe I will see if I can get that disk Olav mentions since he claims a positive result on it. Any other suggestions? We need one with a known positive result in the audio domain... -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] An end to A/B/X (DBT) debates? (No, but...)
cliveb;183944 Wrote: > AES Preprint 3137 - Towards a Definitive Analysis of Audio System > Errors; Chris Dunn & Malcolm Hawksford, Sept 1991. This is a very interesting paper, thanks for pointing it out. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33127 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Records Studio Masters on Tp & SB3
325xi;183326 Wrote: > Considering all things said in Resampling thread, I'm just wondering > what kind of sample rate conversions used in SB for downsampling? As I recall based on my reading of Sean Adam's postings in the forums (truely its worth reading all his back postings if this stuff interests you), it is drop every other sample. I will try to dig up the reference. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32951 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Skunk;184169 Wrote: > I linked to positive results on page two, pointing out that the dynamic > range is what changed. I can see without enlarging that the dynamic > range is the same in your link. > I have been using your posting #12 extensively on this. The first link is the methdology I and Phil were using after sorting out the !#%^!& WMP issues. However, the second posting you linked to there was some question in the thread and in my mind if the guy was really comparing the right things. I wasn't ignoring it, I was trying to replicate it... which I have not succeed in yet (neither Phil nor I had). He talks alot about redithering and processing. I just wanted to get to a straight up rip to decode caputure comparison. Actually I didn't miss your post #106 either, but I think I misread it and I got confused, and i did see your HDCD list, thanks. I just don't understand and am very confused by what the point of HDCD is if it doesn't bother to recover more dynamic range. One thing I found out was that unknown to me, I still had the Windows Media Run Time for version 11 installed throughout all this, so just in the last day I was trying to figure out if that was causing some kind of DRM access failure or something. I pulled it out and still get the same waveform - no dynamic range increase. So agree I need to try another HDCD. Hopefully I will see what everyone other than me sees. Can I ask if you have actually replicated this yourself? The link you reposted is just from the originator of the hydrogenaudio thread. Just checking. I do appreciate your guidance and help in this. Its been a bit of a learning experience for me. I have to admit I have way more cool audio tools installed now. Again, thanks. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Skunk;184169 Wrote: > Sometimes you seem to ignore my posts, then repost what I said as > epiphany found elsewhere- so even though I'm not phil I'll jump in :-) > . Whoops, sorry about I must have missed your posting. Its only 12 pages of thread... Let me go back and look. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Blown away by Transporter
nicketynick;182758 Wrote: > Yeah, but why archive it on plastic should the need ever arise? Just go > back to the online source and get it again. 1. I want FLAC lossless on my Transporter. Lossy compression is perceptible (although some of the lossy codec like AAC are getting darn close). Currenlty with a small number of exceptions that means CDs (YAY Linn Records, if we can get the to change from WMA to FLAC). 2. I do not want DRM. CDs are DRM free. True some online downloads are DRM free but see (1). 3. I want control of my backups in my hands. I have owned CDs since they first came out. I will think about leaving my valuable data with an online organization when that organization has existed for a similar amount of time. And I love my transporter. The Transporter has caused me to start buying CDs again. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32969 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical connection - inferior by default?
ErikM;184159 Wrote: > Gosh I wish I knew all ee buzz words and computer stuff but I don't. I > did buy a good glass fibre toslink to compare to my Sterovox coax > cable. The coax sounded way better. The toslink sounded grainier and > brighter. The coax sounded soother with less glare, less mechanical.. > Guess I'll go with the ears. I was hoping the Toslink would sound the > same or better, I like all the techical reasons, galvanic, and > grounding and stuff.. but it didn't YMMV Well, other than how great our mutual name is I know we can agree on how much we like our Squeezebox (modded or not) and Transporters and how great the resulting music is (I know we can agree or we wouldn't be posting here). So I need to unwind from a stressful day in the SD Audiophile forum and go listen to some exceptionally rendered music. :) Enjoy the music! -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33146 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical connection - inferior by default?
P Floding;184153 Wrote: > There are problems specific to SPDIF (and hence also TOSLINK) that have > nothing to do with BER. Thanks I am aware of it, and I believe this issue has been flogged thoroughly in the forum archives. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33146 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical connection - inferior by default?
325xi;184113 Wrote: > Although I totally agree about Swiss watch thing - that's why I'm > interested in getting the best even though I might not hear it in > real. > Well, I like to buy the best over the line of audibility, but not at the cost of an order of magnitude in price. So a Transporter makes sense to me over an SB3, but you can see i have SB3s too :-) I don't have the top end DAC you might notice. I use coax and toslink interchangably. I do not have run lengths to justify one over the other - it is mostly driven by a) I am used to optical gear professionally so its fun (but more expensive) to have it at home and b) what connections the gear I am connecting need. When using optical I pick a known to me manufacturer of decent optical patch cables. Tight fit and good seating are all that I look for. "The network is the connector" after all... A short plastic optical connection from a reputable patch cable manufacturer should be more than good enough. Same goes for the coax cable. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33146 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical connection - inferior by default?
All bit sychronous systems carry clocks that are recovered on the other side unless you deal in seperately distributed clocking. So on average consumer TOSLINK, sure, there is a bit of slip potentially, if you have clock drift, and if you don't attend to that issue in your circuit design. But clock recovery is also well understood and easily incorporated for equipment that cares (and at audiophile prices it sure better care). But clock distribution architecture is not a distinguisher to coax vs. optical. It may be an arguement potentially for not using S/PDIF (coax or optical) without a seperate clocking system. But now we just shifted the discussion to BER and audibility of that, which I was not speaking to. I was addressing the question of whether optical is inferior to coax by default. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33146 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical connection - inferior by default?
pablolie;184112 Wrote: > Not sure why you would get flamed. Because I am touching on the great > subjectivist vs objectivist divide in audiophile land. pablolie;184112 Wrote: > > I am always very scpetical when people claim something's based on > physics. There was a time when they could prove the sun circled the > earth with physics. :-) On the other hand, I don't think *everything* > needs to be measurable and quantifiable to be valid in an art as > esoteric as "high end audio", which is somewhat irrational to start > with. Well, we differ here. This isn't quantum mechanics. It isn't cosmology, string theory or general relativity. This is not X ray wave guides. We understand electronics at 20-50 KHz. We know alot about audio perception. There are still black art areas, like speaker design and a bit of room acoustics. But it is way less black art than people seem to believe. This topic is measurable. Anyway, I have said my piece on this and I will go back into my hole now. I really do know better... -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33146 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Cool! So now I have to go buy a different HDCD and decode it for real. Then I have to ABX it to see if all this was worth anything ;-) -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical connection - inferior by default?
Sorry, my response was not directed at you specifically 325xi in any way, I wasn't trying to mock or be in any way insulting. Apologies if it came across like that. I was actually amplifying Phil's very correct response and the references from other sources on this topic. I guess I suspect that that trying to answer your question is going to induce a certain reaction and I guess I was getting ready in advance for it. TOSLINK is just a LED with a piece of plastic. There is NO QUESTION it is inferior to a high end 10 Gb/s OC48 or OC768 (if you can find one) short haul or long haul interface. Those optics are dealing with electro-optic interfaces with clock cycles in the .1ns - 1ns regime. That's fast. Audio is 44.1 KHz. That's slow. At 44.1KHz you are dealing with clock cycles in the 20us regime, 5 orders of magnitude slower. So clocks are slower, equipment can be less "good". A LED is easily "good enough" in this regime for some value of "good enough". But the question is if an TOSLINK is "less good" than the 75ohm variant. Maybe yes, maybe not. Its measurable for sure. But I don't think that is really the issue. The issue is what is the requirement for the transport? What specifications must it support? So I think you question might break down as: a. is there any intrinsic physical reason why an optical connection of LEDs and plastic is less good (for some measures) than coax? b. Is toslink as a syncronous architecture defective to the requirements? c. are there possible manufacturing design reasons one is less than another d. does this in any way matter to the listening experience? Is it audible? (a) I know of no reason, intrinsincally, that a LED and plastic cable should not be able to match coax FOR THE REQUIREMENTS at hand. It might have some slightly better rise & fall propertises depending on the LED selected, (I would need to look into that) but I doubt it - communication LED technology has come a long way and is dirt cheap now. Low end networking gear doesn't use real lasers anymore as this technology has improved so much over the years. b) well, depends on what you want it for. Seems to do ok for consume grade audio motion. Its definately got weak points. But I wouldn't classify it as flawed. Let's look at the requirement. If you accept (and here is the issue) that audibility is +-.5us or so, then you are asking for a LED with switching characteristics in the .5 MHz regime. Thats SLOW. So I would really doubt this is a problem. I stand to be corrected on this by some spec sheets of common gear. c) yes, it is possible some manufacturer fubared their design. If so its not TOSLINKs fault as a design. Bad cables impact networks the world over. But in a .5-1 MHz signal regime the cable has to be pretty appaling. d) This is the kicker. If you think that you need +-100ps jitter control on a TOSLINK connection than there is no way a LED and plastic can achieve that. If you think you need +-.5us I don't see how it couldn't achieve it. Its all in the requirements you believe a TOSLINK has to achieve. I'll do a little research and check some numbers here on this to confirm my intuition on this. Hopefully this is a better answer... -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33146 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Phil, Not sure if you threw in the towel on this or not, but I have two more updates. 1. I got WMP10 and it WILL give me the HDCD icon. Just not 100% of the time. My problem turned out to be I had the wrong Windows Media Run Time package loaded. Deleting it and reupgrading succeeded in getting WMP 10 installed. 2. Check out 'this posting' (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=30999&view=findpost&p=475231) on Hydrogen Audio. A poster there appears to show positive results on HDCD decode visible in the waveform. I think I need to try buying another HDCD. Its been suggested that some HDCDs dont use the compression feature in the mastering process. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Optical connection - inferior by default?
Phil Leigh;184095 Wrote:
>
> This is one of the "great audio myths of our time".
To paraphrase Jean Luc Picard in First Contact, "The physics of the
audiophile world are somewhat different".
Here are some of the principles I have perceived since my recent
introduction to the audiophile world (and all I thought I was doing was
ripping my CDs and buying some nice speakers and a good amp).
1. If a listener claims an audible difference, then it exists. ("I hear
it, therefore it is")
2. If it exists, any amount of new physics or engineering is plausible
to explain the audible difference.
3. Audible difference is never due to suggestion, placebo perceptiual
illusion or confirmation bias. Ergo DBT is not required.
4. The obligation to refute audible difference is on the skeptic not
the perceiver.
5. All devices, regardless of physical or engineering principles to the
contray, influence and colour sound.
6. There is no known threshold of engineering beyond which changes no
longer impact sound (corollary of (5))
In the classical world of high end computer networking which deals in
orders of magnitude higher signal rates, and is vastly more senstivity
to small error rates, and is carefully instrumented to measure bit
error rate, the thought that optical connections are inferior to
coaxial induce fall off the chair hilarity.
As a point of calibration on this topic, I have seen a paper assessing
the limits of audibility of jitter in a controlled listening blind
study to be around +-.5us using a syncrononous clocked environment. I
am having difficulty understanding how even the cheapest s/pdif
transmitted could not hold that, but I do admit to not having spent any
time looking at the engineering of S/PDIF circuits.
As Sean has measured this kind of stuff all the way down to
picoseconds, which deeply impresses me as a sort of uber-geek thing to
do I suspect he has the definitive word on this subject buried
somewhere in the SD forum postings. Site specific google searches would
help this. Kudos to Sean for at least characterizing it.
Now, full well knowning ps level jitter control likely well exceeds the
"don't care" thresholds, I still bought a Transporter because I so
admired the engineering precision that went into it. Its like buying a
Swiss watch: you don't really need that level of precision to get to
the meeting on time, but you sure do admire the engineering work that
went into it.
I know I will get flamed for this posting. But I sure do like the
clause in Hydrogen Audio's forum AUP that requires DBT to support
claims of improvement or difference. And I really do think I have
fairly summarized the position of the subjectivist community on this
stuff. To be fair the intensity of (2) varies.
Its really hard not to answer the OPs question without dealing with
this point.
In summary, the short answer is that in the classical networking wold,
even in syncronous bit transport clocking, there is no known mechanism
that could cause a properly engineered optical connection to be in any
way inferior to a coaxial one. But reading a spec sheet on the
transmitter/receiver chipset and internal clock circuit would resolve
this question conclusively.
In the world of audiophile physics, if you hear a difference, then by
all means use coax over optical.
--
Eric Carroll
Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4
SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805
SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2
ReadyNAS NV+
Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=33146
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
I have looked at this in Audacity and now in WaveLab Lite. I can report conclusively that the 24b Chronotron WAV plugin capture is exactly 6dB down from the 16b rip on the peaks. Is this expected? In essence the 24b capture is quieter and shows the same dynamic range. Personally I don't think this is working. The only other option I came up with was to use the 'Virtual Audio Cable (VAC)' (http://software.muzychenko.net/eng/vac.html). I am thinking about it solely because I cannot confirm the Chronotron plugin is doing what we think it is doing... and this might permit a closer check Hydrogen Audio postings suggest any benefit is going to be minimal though... -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Ok, yes, its scaled down. But why? Did you see the same thing or something different? -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Here is my result from HDCD ripping. '[image: http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4905/hdcddj2.th.jpg]' (http://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hdcddj2.jpg) The test track is Mike Oldfield's 2000 remaster of Tublar Bells, Part 1. The upper trace is the 16b original EAC rip in WAV format. The lower track is the 24b capture via Chronoton plugin to WMP9 in WAVEX format. Note the substantially lower amounts of dynamic range in the 24b trace. This conflicts with the results found 'in the headfi thread' (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2747203#post2747203). -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
I 'posted a message' (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=222565&page=2) in the head-fi thread to see if anyone knows how to definately confirm the 20b is in use. Investigating Audacity shows it knows the difference between WAV and WAVEX file formats. I tried a few conversions to see if I could get the same result (based on converting the 16b rip to 24b for example), but my results are not conclusive to me. I will keep looking. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Records Studio Masters on Tp & SB3
Veggen;183251 Wrote: > > On my SB3 the wma files play fine using wmadec as described earlier, > but it does convert to 16/44, so better to use flac. I can't transcode on my slimserver box (not enough CPU) so it went through native at 96 KHz and played. But of course the SB3 is dropping every other sample to play it at 48KHz. Thanks for the insight on dbpoweramp. Gotta write this all up on a wiki page... -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32951 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Records Studio Masters on Tp & SB3
Big lesson: dont use softsqueeze to test. Its not the same as SB3 or Tp. The procedure I outlined above definately results in workable 24b files. I need to further investigate using upsampled 96K or downsampled 44K. The test files all successully play on both the Tp and the SB3. 'This message' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=159621&postcount=19) documents that the SB3 downsamples 88 & 96 to 44 & 48 respectively, that is why the 96K test file plays on the SB3. It appears that WAVEX files do NOT play. And neither to WMA of course. The crash messages were a red herring. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32951 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Records Studio Masters on Tp & SB3
Phil Leigh;183062 Wrote: > Eric, > > you need to use WMA2LPCM to convert the Linn wma files to wavs. Then > audacity 1.3 can convert those to 24-bit FLACS (I do this at 44.1 > because I only have an SB3) Yes, I have done that. See the 'post above' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=183025&postcount=17). I currently have 44 & 96 versions the test WMA in WAV & FLAC format. WAV causes 'some kind of crash in SS' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=183043&postcount=18) and FLAC generates white noise. Is there some level of firmware you have to have to make this work? -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32951 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Records Studio Masters on Tp & SB3
I found a 'another thread here' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32098) that claims to have gotten this to work... but I am still not having any luck. I keep ending up with white noise. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32951 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
More links on HDCD: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=30999 http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=517 It looks like big chunks of the HDCD process are not implemented in WMP. Its not clear to me that all this work is worth anything... I did expect however, that the Tp/SB3 would support the 24b FLAC files and play them. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Records Studio Masters on Tp & SB3
Veggen;182897 Wrote: > Upsampling to 96kHz on the other hand is more complex, and needs more > sophisticated algorhitms, but if done properly it will retain better > the resolution of the original. So for use with a Transporter would be > my choice. > Do you know of any easily available tools for resampling? -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32951 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Records Studio Masters on Tp & SB3
While beating my head against the 'HDCD ripping problem' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967) I got all the tools needed to test the Linn test file. dbpoweramp shows that the test file is in fact a 88.2/24b file. I did the following: - Importing WAVEX format to audacity - set sample format to 24b - set FLAC export to 24b - export As FLAC This results in a 24b 44KHz file confirmed by dbpoweramp. I can play this successfully on winamp and mediamonkey. But it comes out as static on SSQ. I will try SB3 & Tp tomorrow. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32951 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Well, I can now get a confirmed 44.1 24b FLAC file that will play on Audacity and WinAMP. It won't play on SSQ. I will test SB3/Tp tomorrow. Here is what I had to do: - WMP9 with chronoton WAV output plugin - tools / options / Devices / Properties / Use 24 bit audio - play the HDCD track, ensure HDCD icon turns green - you now have a HDCD decoded WAVEX format .wav file - import WAVEX format wav file into audacity - set sample format to 24 bits - Edit/Preferences/File Format/FLAC Export Setup - 24 bits (!!!) - Export As... FLAC This results in a confirmed 24b 44.1KHz FLAC file. Winamp & mediamonkey plays it successfully. I put it through SSQ and it was all noise. I don't understand why SSQ won't play it. I will test on the SB3/Tp tomorrow. I also ripped and compared a 16b WAV file to the 24b WAVEX file. The only difference I can see is levels. The 16b WAV was much hotter than the 24b WAVEX file, occassionally clipping. The 24b WAVEX file was much lower levels and more headroom. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Well, finally. Holy cow. I can now get the 24b WAVEX file into FLAC and have it play on SSQ. So here is the trick: you have to force FLAC into 24 bit mode. What I did was the following: - WMP9 with chronoton WAV output plugin - tools / options / Devices / Properties / Use 24 bit audio - play the HDCD track, ensure HDCD icon turns green - import resulting WAVEX format wav file into audacity - Edit/Preferences/File Format/FLac Export Setup - 24 bits (!!!) - Export As... FLAC Sheesh. The problem was I was not forcing the FLAC conversion to 24bits. Thus the mess. I will confirm this on Tp/SB3 tomorrow. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
I reripped my HDCD again, and I have now both 16b and 24b WAV file formats. The 16b WAV came from EAC. It is a pure WAV file. Audacity claims it is "WAV (Microsoft)" on import. The 24 bit file came from the chronoton plugin on WMP9. Audacity claims it is "WAVEX (Microsoft)" on import. Looking at the 16b & 24b file side by side in audacity I see no difference other than levels. The 24b file has considerably more headroom (ie. average levels are lower). -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
I am pretty close to stumped on this one. I have a 24b WAV file output from the WAV plugin in WMP9. I do have the HDCD icon on. The 24b WAV is playable on some but not all players. It is mostly noise when played on SSQ/SB3/Tp. FLAC encoding fails, resulting in either a badly clipped FLAC file, or a mostly noise FLAC depending on which tool you use. I suspect there is something going on in the header of the 24b WAV file. Does anyone have any conclusive way to assess a 24b WAV to see if it has captured the HDCD extra bits? Any ideas on why FLAC would be messing up are appreciated. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Ok I downloaded dbPowerAmp music converter. I converted the 24b WAVEX file and I got a DIFFERENT result... much worse too. It sounds very similar to playing it on the SB3 sounds. Something is fishy here with the format on the WAVEX file. I need a hex editor or something that can read the struct on the WAV file the plugin created... -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Super-Gonzo;182949 Wrote: > Be wary, there is apparently more than one way to store 24 bits in a wav > file. > I am starting to wonder if this has something to do with it... if the WMP plugin is not correctly tagging the output WAV, then both SB3 and FLAC might mess it up. Audacity reports the file as of type "WAVEX" when it imports. Some googling suggests this is a different format than WAV. Not sure if thats good or bad -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Skunk;182962 Wrote: > Well I'm using win2k, and think only 9 is possible with that, but > stumbled across instructions for rolling 11 back to 10, for drm > reasons. There are details at the mS DL site. > > Sorry if already covered, but may be worth a try to those on xp. > > edit: There is also an individual who this worked for, here > http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2693944&postcount=24 Ya, I tried it. I rolled back and then tried to install 10. The MS downloader gave me a big error message that my system was not compatible with 10, and a URL to a missing page.. *sigh. So I went with WMP 9 -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
The 24b WAV gets the same result on the SB3 and SSQ. The FLAC from the 24b WAV does not play at all on the SB3 or SSQ or Transporter. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Phil Leigh;182961 Wrote: > Eric - Flac 1.1.3 works fine for me on an SB3 - but Audacity can't > handle the 24-bit FLAC Whoops. I have both versions of audacity loaded here. Let's make sure I am using the right one. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Ok. FLAC encoding using 1.1.3 of 24b WAV will not play on Softsqueeze. When I look at it in Audacity its a mess of clipping. It audibly clipps on peaks. Its terrible. Winamp and MediaMoney both refuse to play the FLAC file. Error message is "This plugin can only handle 8/16/24 bit samples". This makes me think the FLAC is not encoded as a standard format. This is bizzare. Why would FLAC do such a bad job? Do I need additional FLAC command line options? -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
P Floding;182941 Wrote: > Have you been able to locate any peeks to see if they go above the 16 > bits? I believe the answer is yes. I wish I could figure out the attachment upload here. But it really looks like I have lower average levels and higher peaks on the 24b WAV. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
I have HDCD decoded into 24 bit WAV format now. I can play it with Audacity, WINAMP and WMP 9. I cannot play it with Media Monkey. So problem one down - I use mediamonkey by default and it doesn't like the 24 bit file in WAV format. Ok, next, what about before and after... So comparing 24b WAV to 16b FLAC, same song... there is visibly less dynamic range on the 24b WAV file. The FLAC file has more range and higher peaks. Ok, next step: Softsqueeze played back a very staticy mess. There was music in there, but it was totally overwhelmed by the static. I will try flac next. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
Phil, I am getting some strange results on this. I can get to a 24 bit WAV file using WMP 9 and the plugin. Softsqueeze is not playing either WAV or FLAC file properly. And the FLAC version looks weird in Audacity. I upgraded to FLAC 1.1.4 so that may be confusing things, so let me re-rip the HDCD to a clean WAV and try this again with FLAC 1.1.3. Likely operator error... -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] HDCD ripping
I have read about problems from other users trying to use WMP 10, so this might be the issue. I know for sure WMP 11 does not work at all with HDCD. I never get a HDCD icon, no matter what I did. When I deinstalled WMP 11, I was left with WMP 9 already there. -- Eric Carroll Transporter-Bryston 3B SST-Paradigm Reference Studio 60 v.4 SB3-Rotel RB890-B&W Matrix 805 SB3-Pioneer VSX-49TXi-Mirage OM7+C2+R2 ReadyNAS NV+ Eric Carroll's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9293 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=32967 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
