Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter EAC vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!
No I'm not late to the party at all.. I'm honestly not anywhere near as anal as some of the people I know in the audio world. I'm usually happy playing 320k songs. I watch some of these guys striving for "perfect synergy" in every IC and power cord, and laugh. The only reason I am even getting more info on wav/FLAC files, is to PROVE to these guys, that a music server is the way to go. Some of these guys have 2000-3000 and one guy I know has 5000 CDs An entire wall of CDs. It's crazy to me. But I also know its just like a heroin fiend, the "setup" is half the HIGH. I've been friends with some of these guys for 5-10 years, and I watch them upgrade, swap 50 cables, get the $1000 power cord for their CD players... It all looks like too much WORK. they will never be happy of finished, always chasing that last 2% or (that next high) I see myself being pretty lucky. I can sit back and listen to a 128k song (knowing it sounds like shit) and not really care at all. I listen to the "music" not the image, or placement of each instrument, just the overall music. A cabinet building friend once said to a client that was complaining about the finish on his newly installed wall unit "Stop looking at the hole, stand back and look at the doughnut" I'd guess only 10% of my personal listening music is FLAC quality. I listen to Pandora most of the time now. Also, thanks for the spell-check... I fixed it. -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] speaker advancements over 15 years?
They do have forward firing versions as well, but you will sacrifice size. [image: http://www.aveon.com/images/CRS-3+3C.jpg] -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88582 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] speaker advancements over 15 years?
You may seriously want to look into a set of Sunfire Cinema Ribbons, with a small subwoofer. Amazing small package with amazingly big sound. Not the cheapest speakers on the planet, but amazing reviews as well. They are cheap enough used, that you could try a set, and re-sell them if you choose. Do a little research on the web, and check some the reviews. I'm sure you would be pleased with them. -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88582 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Blind tests? I don't get it...
I've been avoiding reading this thread, as I am setting up my own ABx test in Sep. at an audio fest we have every year. http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 2:30 in the morning, and nothing to do... I finally pull up the thread ans read all of it. I figure I'll go ahead and make a post, and share what I have learned. 1st off, a couple quick videos by one of the worlds most innovative audio designers of the last 30 years... and his 1st hand with AB testing 6:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAmtwNipZoM And his view on the "Blue Wire"... 3:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VClUrwypWys -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88345 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter EAC vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!
I will also do a little testing/listening of FLAC vs. wav files vs. CDs in the next week or so. Again, i don't expect to be able to hear a difference. But I want to cover all my bases before showing up unprepared, and look stupid and have anyone tell me " see we told you CDs were better" Approximately what % of space is saved using FLAC files over the raw wav files? -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter EAC vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!
I don't think i have used it yet But I will play with it this week a little, and see how accurate my filets were. I guess I was going by the accuracy that EAC was giving me for each track... Im not 100% sure if it's already on in EAC or if i have to do something else to utilize it ? Very new to EAC and have only used it twice now. Give me a couple days, and I'll have it down. -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter EAC vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!
Oh my god what a long painful read that was over on Audiophool. I am personal friends with Bob Carver, one of the audio designers that spat in the face of the Audiophools, and made an $800 stock Carver amplifier have an identical audio signature as a set of $20,000 tube amplifiers. They gave him the credit... But then tried to take it away, and even sued him for using the review in his ads. Regardless of what they say, there is no way in hell they will ever give a PAYING customer a nevitive review. I'm glad to see in your ongoing fight to promote some enlightenment of thenSqueezebox line, at least a couple people opened their eyes. This is the exact same thing I am trying to do in September at CarverFest. I've had my SB3 for about 3 years, and in the last year or so, I know I have convinced no less than 5 of our forum members to buy some SD unit. I am the first person that anyone on the forum knows to buy a Transporter. I honestly expect Logitech will make a few thousand dollars due to me. I honestly enjoy teaching some of the "old dogs" new tricks. I'm 37 and am the youngest so called "Audiophile" at the event. There will be about 45 people there that come and go throughout the 10-day event. "Golden-Ear Tom" and I are the event cordinators, and are there the full 10 days. So with a $50,000 system being driven soley by a Transporter, I fully expect to help the digital world (at least a little anyway) out, and try to showcase the true level of quality and convience that can be achieved for less than $1000. >From what I know, the reviewer from Absolute Sound might be coming up to a few days to run a story on the Fest. I am hoping he comes on one of the days that we run the A/B testing. We might be able to get him involved, and to possibly write a little something in their magazine. -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter EAC vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!
1st I will list all equipment used. Proceed AVP Preamp Logitech Transporter Denon 2910 DVD Player Lightstar Reference Amplifier AL-III plus Speakers JL Fathom Subwoofer F-112 All CarverAudio cables Exact Audio Copy (EAC) Acer 8930 laptop to rip the CDs Acer Home Server to store the files. Linksys WiFi router to connect everything. I ripped a few of my favorite CDs that I still had stashed away. Most of the files that EAC made came out 100% bit for bit perfect. There were however a few files that were 99.9 or 99.7 due to the CDs being old and scratched pretty badly. After moving all the newly ripped files from my laptop over to the music server, I started listening. I went right to tracks I knew really well, played a few of them, and just listened. After about a half hour, I put in the CD, and started to listen to it. I was listening for small nuances that I knew were in the songs and could pinpoint with the ripped file with no problem. I was checking to see if there were being played in the same place in the room. Then we started switching back and forth while playing the same tracks on both units. Knowing which source I was listening to, I thought I was hearing slight differences, and was sure I could tell the 2 apart. Then I did it blind. I started both players, and had Alex switch them back and forth. Blindfolded, I had bo clue which was which... I was basically guessing. So, the test seems to be EXTREMELY even if you ask me. I will be seriously impressed if anyone can tell me which is which. Not right off the bat, but I'd go as far as letting someone listed to the same tracks NOT blindfolded at first, and then blindfold them, and see if they can tell which source is playing. After listening myself, I have absolutely no problem what so ever abandoning CDs forever. Keep in mind, you HAVE to have an original CD in the beginning to rip your files from, or get already ripped files from some other source. -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter EAC vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!
Ok, so ABX, is probably what we will do. Tom is the main person to try to tell A from B... I'm sure there will be others that will want to join in for the test. It should be a fun test, and i expect some very positive results on favor of the Transpoter. -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter EAC vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!
Yes most of our equipment is Carver... We have a few nice pieces of equipment. [image: http://carveraudio.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=3053] Please explain what a ABx test is?? Yes Tom will know when I am switching sources. Hahahaha... The $300 Sennheisers... Those were the junk ones. I sold a set of HE-90's a few months ago on eBay for $11,400 wish I had a dozen of those laying around !!! -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter EAC vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!
Most if not ALL of the 15+ systems that will be at the fest are $10,000+ range... ours fall into the $50,000 range. Not sure what $300 units you are talking about... Well here was the latest update to the test as of last night The test is about the same... a few minor changes, but nothing major.. NO optic cables, as I have learned THEY SUCK. Digital RCA's will be the cable of choice, from each source to the pre-amp, which I will be MAKING myself ;) I recently learned that EAC wav files are 100% uncompressed, as perfect to the original CD track as possible. So FLAC files are out too. I can make FLAC files using EAC as well... We could A-B test wav vs FLAC for a 2nd test. But we will have enough on our plate already I think. The Proceed pre-amp is in, as the pre-amp/DAC that will decode both the CDP and the PC files. Other than that, I don't think much has changed since the start of this thread. Tom and I got off the phone a little while ago. We discussed "What the test should actually be" We came to the conclusion, that there will be (2) parts to the test. 1) Can you hear a difference between the 2 sources... and Tom will have to document what cues he hears in each recording, that don't match up. 2) Which of the 2 "sounds better, and why" test-2 will only have to be done if test-1 is NOT NULL. The equipment will be set up by me, and Tom will not know which source is which. He will only be able to go by source-A and source-B. We will be able to switch back and forth on the fly with the Proceed's remote, and if whatever CDP'r we use has a remote, then we will be able to cue up the PC file and the CD track simultaneously every time, and Tom will never know which source he's really listening to. The perfect outcome in my opinion would be in test-1, that there is no difference, and we never even go on to test-2 I hope the outcome IS null, that they DO sound the same. THAT IS THE TEST. -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter EAC vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!
SuperQ Thanks for the link to AudioDiffMaker !! Please take a look at this, you will defiantly find it interesting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAmtwNipZoM This was a CONTEST that Audiophile put to Bob Carver back in the late 80's "The Carver Amplifier Challenge" Full publication here: http://www.carveraudio.com/index.php/history/carver-corp -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter EAC vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!
That's the plan. Tom (the golden ear boy) says ge will be listening for cues like instrument placement to try to tell the 2 apart. If both sources are digital to a single DAC... all should be equal, no? -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter EAC vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!
No... Not at all... My "Golden Ear" Audiophile buddy, says he will be able to hear the difference. He says the Transporter can not reproduce a ripped CD to where he cant tell the difference. I plan to prove him wrong. -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter EAC vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!
Damn screwed all that up, and the forum doesn't let you go back and edit your posts Sorry, iPads SUCK for typing on. -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter EAC vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!
Again, the test is going to be redbook CDs ripped using EAC to raw wav files. Both th cdp and the Transporterwill be wired to a preamp using 2 of the same digital cables, letting the preamp do all the DAC for both head units. We lwill video take the testing, and probably post it on YouTube sometime after Sep. Does anyone else know anyone that has done this test, and what the outcome was? -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter EAC vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!
Well, I only own a pair of SB3s and a Transporter... So that's what I have to run the test... Yeah, I know about bypassing the Transporters DAC.. Otherwise you are just comparing DACs, and that is not the test at all. I want the most complete file possible for the test.. FLAC files would probably be just fine... But these guys are ANAL, and I want to avoid any possible chance of them hearing ANY difference. I didn't know I could do the same test with SACDs.. I don't own any, but I know the guy I am putting up to the test does. I will look into ripping them as well. What software do you need to rip an SACD? Sorry guys, I know its a Transporter SE, I just call it a "2"... Sorry. Ant what's with the lame aluminum round puck they replaced the knob with They didn't even line up the grain pattern... Pffft. I'm also replacing the rack handles with BLACK ones :). Then it will match all my other Carver gear. Yeah, in page 4 of the thread, I posted this... I plan on using a Proceed digital preamp I've had it for about a year and a half. I used it for a while before we got the Silver-1 installed. I have to say, that preamp is DAMN NICE... One of the coolest things about that preamp is the ability to make ANY input/output on the back run off ANY button on the front :shock: So say you want Digital input #5 as your main source, because that's the one you use 90% of the time.. You can program the preamp, so Source #1 on the front panel, is actually input #5 on the back... and so on. Pretty cool feature. It's also nice that it's 7.1 if you want a nice small HT setup connected as well. I pretty much just used it in 2.1 while I had it hooked up. (pretty sure it's dual zone too) :-k If you don't have a problem going over to the (REALLY DARK SIDE), and going "Digital" it's a really nice preamp !!! I can't say a single bad thing about the preamp itself. The remote is lacking a little, as it only has 12 buttons, but they do pretty much everything you'd ever need. Surprisingly enough, when I started talking about it yesterday, I did a little more reading, and found out that there was a "software upgrade" a while back.. Called up tech support last night, and they emailed me the files today... Damn good service still !! =D> > The digital section of the AVP uses Burr Brown 1702 20-bit Multibit DACs > for the left and right channels and 1-bit, 24-bit compatible AKM > Delta-Sigma DACs for the center, surround, aux and subwoofer channels. > *A dealer-provided software update will be available in the near future > to get your AVP ready for the 24-bit 96 kHz performance.* For the current used prices ($400-600) it's a damn good deal, and a REALLY high-end Preamp. It helped that I got mine in a package deal, and after I sold a couple other items, it wound up being free \:D/ Can't go wrong with free. Not too hard to look at either [image: http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b227/busterkeatonrules/AVP1.jpg] [image: http://www.bjorn.tornroth.net/img_L//Proceed_AVP2_rear.jpg] -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng And more toys than any one person should be aloud to own. Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter EAC vs. CD audio... Throwing Down the Gauntlet !!!
I just thought you guys might be interested in an ongoing "contest" of the "Golden Ear" I am the owner of CarverAudio.com and we have an annual audio fest in Sep. every year. For the past 3 years, I have claimed that "If set up correctly FULLY DIGITAL" you will not be able to tell an EAC file played through a Transporter, and the original CD it was ripped from. Well this year, all the toys are in place to run a fair test. I opened and setup my Transporter2 today, and I hear an AMAZING difference from my old Squeezebox3. Has anyone ever done this test, and what were the results? Here is the thread on my forum, overviewing the test, and how we plan to run all the equipment. http://carveraudio.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=151&t=14068 PS, this is my living room, so I like to think I'm in the "Audiophile" legue, well at least a little ;) -- Toy Maker (2) Squeezebox3's - (1) Transporter2 - 7TB Acer Home Server - iPad - iPeng Toy Maker's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=88364 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
