Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Wombat wrote: > I am one more time fascinated of the energy the music business puts into > fooling the paying customer! Which is one of the main reasons why there continue to be so many NON-paying customers. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Putting aside discussion of its merits, we actually had some recent success in implementing Meridian's system, the 'Explorer 2 specifically' (https://www.max2play.com/forums/topic/meridian-explorer-2-dac-works/) and 'MQA generally' (https://www.max2play.com/forums/topic/mqa-audio-works/), in our software thanks to the efforts of our users Eyerex and audiophilio. Max2Play's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66120 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Archimago wrote: > I remain skeptical that the *entire* Warner catalogue has been > converted. That's gotta be ALOT of material and that would be amazing if > they could convert it all within months like this! More likely is 'Dr. > AIX's comments about conversion of the 3500' > (http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5864) "hi-res" material. Unless > specified, none of this suggests special care in encoding. Just > reconversion of previously available material but in a smaller partially > lossy container because they don't want us to actually have the 24/96 or > 24/192 data which inevitably they'll use to sell us another version down > the road. (No, I don't think this is cynical, it's likely the truth > based on comments from the Industry.)... Yes, their crown jules they don't want to give away. Universal Media group including labels like Deutsche Grammophon already only sell you watermarked crap when you buy a download. Soon MQA protects their High Bitrate music going out at full resolution even being of less bit resolution as standard CD when not decoded. I am one more time fascinated of the energy the music business puts in fooling the paying customer! Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
MadScientist wrote: > Well, for those who wish to try it, there should be available material > shortly.I remain open minded about the format but if it encourges > better audio mastering practices that has to be a bonus. > > > http://www.audiostream.com/content/what-mqa#iWT9o5sylEKO2eO3.97 Hmm I agree with mr waldrep on this old analog recordings are not and can not be hirez . There are very few real hirez recordings . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
MadScientist wrote: > Well, for those who wish to try it, there should be available material > shortly.I remain open minded about the format but if it encourges > better audio mastering practices that has to be a bonus. > > > http://www.audiostream.com/content/what-mqa#iWT9o5sylEKO2eO3.97 I remain skeptical that the *entire* Warner catalogue has been converted. That's gotta be ALOT of material and that would be amazing if they could convert it all within months like this! More likely is 'Dr. AIX's comments about conversion of the 3500' (http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5864) "hi-res" material. Unless specified, none of this suggests special care in encoding. Just reconversion of previously available material but in a smaller partially lossy container because they don't want us to actually have the 24/96 or 24/192 data which inevitably they'll use to sell us another version down the road. (No, I don't think this is cynical, it's likely the truth based on comments from the Industry.) Anyways, I couldn't help but put up another blog post on MQA after RMAF 2016: 'MUSINGS: Keeping it simple... MQA is a partially lossy CODEC.' (http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2016/10/musings-keeping-it-simple-mqa-is-codec.html) As consumers, I believe we have the power to "suggest" what we want or need. Not this spoon feeding of questionable "technology" as if it's yet another "revolution". Ultimately, we have the power to vote with the credit card of course. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Well, for those who wish to try it, there should be available material shortly.I remain open minded about the format but if it encourges better audio mastering practices that has to be a bonus. http://www.audiostream.com/content/what-mqa#iWT9o5sylEKO2eO3.97 MadScientist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Archimago wrote: > Yup. It indeed is about the money. Agreed. In this case it isn't a Betamax v VHS scenario at all. The equivalent of Betamax has actually already won. *Vortexbox LMS 7.9 music on QNAP TS419p via NFS* iThingys/iPeng/Tablets *Living Room* - SB3 -> Onkyo TS606 - > Celestion Ditton F20s - Zone 2 -> Sony TA FE 320 -> Sennheiser RS 130 & B&W P7 *Office* - RPi -> Sony TA FE320 -> Celestion F10s / SB3 -> Onkyo CRN 755 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes *Dining Room* -> SB Boom *Kitchen* -> UE Radio (upgraded to SB Radio) *Bedroom (Bedside)* - SB Touch -> Topping TP21 -> AKG Headphones *Bedroom (TV)* - Amazon Fire TV (SB Player) -> Topping TP20 -> Wharfedale Modus Cubes d6jg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Archimago wrote: > Sad and grotesque example of the audiophile press as nothing more than > the advertising arm of the Industry. Funny I thought that each and every issue of Stereophile and The Absolute Sound clearly served as sad and grotesque examples of the audiophile press as nothing more than the advertising arm of the Industry. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Mnyb wrote: > Yeah I suppose so , but even if they are biased by their belief that > even better accuracy is needed ( which I don't believe ) they could > easily do it in a non proprietary way within already existing formats, > but then there is nothing to sell :) Yup. It indeed is about the money. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Archimago wrote: > The funny thing Mnyb is that they know 16-bits 44kHz will give us time > domain accuracy in the picosecond range. They seem to be basing all this > on impulse response plots... Yeah I suppose so , but even if they are biased by their belief that even better accuracy is needed ( which I don't believe ) they could easily do it in a non proprietary way within already existing formats, but then there is nothing to sell :) Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Archimago wrote: > The funny thing Mnyb is that they know 16-bits 44kHz will give us time > domain accuracy in the picosecond range. They seem to be basing all this > on impulse response plots... They may know it, but it doesn't stop them from quoting guys like Kunchur who started out saying that since 44/16 samples are 22 microseconds apart, it must not be able to accurately reproduce anything smaller. For example: http://boson.physics.sc.edu/~kunchur/papers/Audibility-of-time-misalignment-of-acoustic-signals---Kunchur.pdf arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > Fair enough, where do they say it's audible? > If nothing else it is implied by promoting MQA as something that improves sound quality over older, more generally accepted technology. > > They quote studies that show that very short time frame temporal > information CAN be discerned by a listener but how does this relate to > music? Good question. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
The funny thing Mnyb is that they know 16-bits 44kHz will give us time domain accuracy in the picosecond range. They seem to be basing all this on impulse response plots... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Archimago wrote: > Yup. Overall, you're correct about a solution nobody asked for... One > more thing - it's not "lossless" above the baseband 22/24kHz! > > As per Mr. Stuart: > " b) There is no foolery here: MQA does indeed *reconstruct a > remarkably close approximation to the original ultrasonic information* > from the lower bits of a 24-bit signal." > > So remember, above essentially the CD/DAT part of the spectrum, it's a > *lossy reconstruction*. This is exactly what I expected despite all this > insistence that it's "lossless" and MQA's strange contortions on the > word "lossless". This is why I suggested to stream 24/48 if they think > "high res streaming" is of any benefit. Completely compatible and will > compress better! Or 16/96 if they believe in this "temporal blurring" considering the noise levels of recordings and use of dither . Or go for a new rate like 20/60 still no fancy encoding or proprietary stuff . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > Yes I realised I made a typo. You win the prize for pointing it out! ;) > > I do think it's a smart approach to a problem that most people don't > care about. Trouble for MQA is that if you think you need more details > than 16/44 then 99% will simply put up with 24/192 file sizes and not > even care about the extra disk space. I fail to see who will buy a > lossless high end compression codec when I read about people saying even > flac sounds worse than wav files.. (and with the obvious fact that > people have been endlessly complimentary about even good old 2.5 mbit > six channel Dolby digital movie soundtracks for years). Yup. Overall, you're correct about a solution nobody asked for... One more thing - it's not "lossless" above the baseband 22/24kHz! As per Mr. Stuart: "• b) There is no foolery here: MQA does indeed *reconstruct a remarkably close approximation to the original ultrasonic information* from the lower bits of a 24-bit signal." So remember, above essentially the CD/DAT part of the spectrum, it's a *lossy reconstruction*. This is exactly what I expected despite all this insistence that it's "lossless" and MQA's strange contortions on the word "lossless". This is why I suggested to stream 24/48 if they think "high res streaming" is of any benefit. Completely compatible and will compress better! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > If they aren't careful 4G will become the defacto replacement for wired > home broadband.. Already happening to quite some degree up in Finland. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
ralphpnj wrote: > Finally we agree! Hang on boys. Don't be quick to agree :-) It may be "smart" in a cunningly foxy kind of way... But it's the size of poorly losslessly compressible 24/44. Not 16/44. There's at least a 50% difference. Among other contentious issues... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > Bah, get over it. It's another smart compression algorithm that puts all > the goodies from a 24/192 files into a 16/44. What's not to like? Apart > from the license fee of course... :) > > On the other hand I can say I will probably never buy or hear an mqa > device/file, so I find myself not really caring too much. Finally we agree! Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Julf wrote: > True. But then you have places like Finland, where even a cheap pre-pay > 4G mobile connection is much faster than that. If they aren't careful 4G will become the defacto replacement for wired home broadband.. people investing in wires should take note and pull their bloody fingers out before they get left behind... drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Bah, get over it. It's another smart compression algorithm that puts all the goodies from a 24/192 files into a 16/44. What's not to like? Apart from the license fee of course... :) On the other hand I can say I will probably never buy or hear an mqa device/file, so I find myself not really caring too much. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
This just leaked: MQA broadband! Using super secret proprietary techniques MQA has now developed MQA broadband. In simple terms the broadband signal is analyzed for blank or empty data packets and then these empty data packets are "filled" with data from other non-empty data packets. The resulting MQA broadband can now be streamed by even a non-dsl dial-up connection. Truly revolutionary! Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > On the topic of broadband.. Well I can say that there are still plenty > of parts of the UK and US, supposed to be highly developed economies, > where broadband speeds are struggling to reach the 8mbit recommended for > Netflix.. True. But then you have places like Finland, where even a cheap pre-pay 4G mobile connection is much faster than that. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
On the topic of broadband.. Well I can say that there are still plenty of parts of the UK and US, supposed to be highly developed economies, where broadband speeds are struggling to reach the 8mbit recommended for Netflix.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Well it seems, to me, that MQA selling points concentrate around two topics: convenience and quality. CONVENIENCE. I'm not sure how the broadband internet market is in other countries but here in the Netherlands broadband is not an issue (with a few exceptions for maybe less then 5% of the population). It's available and doesn't cost an arm and a leg. We run several high-bandwith applications at home without problems: Qobuz's CD/lossless music streaming, watching (HD/720) TV via a PVR app on a iPad, downloads of large files like OS updates for all devices, watching youtube material and that all at the same time/in parallel over a 25Mbps downlink. Aside the more "philosophical" question whether streaming of, say 196/24, is wasteful/non-efficient given the information density of the extra information, I don't see where MQA coding/folding/origami solves a problem in delivering/distributing hirez content. And if the broadband situation is more dire in other countries/markets it will only be a temporary issue. Not? QUALITY It is sold under several (non-technical) names to us, "hearing the music as intended", "authenticated". IMHO the whole point is completely moot unless the whole chain is MQA authenticated/certified including everything coming after the MQA enabled DAC: the rest of your electronics, the loudspeakers, the acoustics of your listening environment and last but not least: yourself, as listener. "You as listener must also be MQA authenticated" can be substantiated based on recent articles with more information and responses: MQA officials refute the notion that a double blind test would reveal the benefits of MQA or at least confirm not to harm the quality when a non-MQA DAC is used. I believe the MQA folks take that last one even a step further by saying it sounds better through a non-MQA DAC. They explicitly say you need to be trained to hear what the difference is to be able to appreciate it. Well then you hear it maybe as it was intended but wether you like what you hear is still an open question given the enormous variation in recording qualities, on a side note: what would be the benefit of a bad sounding recording that is MQA'ed, the only point I can think of is that MQA confirms (indirectly) that it is indeed rubbish :-) To repeat, the whole 'hear the music as intended' point is moot. Ps. Btw: how's Phono doing? does the all-black SB sound better than the white SB? hsmeets's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9716 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
ralphpnj wrote: > Quack! Quack! But as a sceptic it's your job to disprove fud... ;) drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
I remember this temporal thing and the testsignals proving their point happily survived in mp3 encoding :) The info must be at hydrogenaudio somewhere. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > Fair enough, where do they say it's audible? They quote studies that > show that very short time frame temporal information CAN be discerned by > a listener but how does this relate to music? Quack! Quack! Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Fair enough, where do they say it's audible? They quote studies that show that very short time frame temporal information CAN be discerned by a listener but how does this relate to music? drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > Funny. It's a duck. So to disprove the value of this duck is very much > to show that the temporal information on the timescales talked about is > either irrelevant (I.e. physically incapable of being heard) or is > preserved in standard recording/playback techniques anyway without mqa > help. > > There's a lot in here that acknowledged what you guys have been saying > for years - to whit that "literally no one needs more than 20 bits" and > that "actually for the vast majority of recordings 16 bit will do" and > secondly that higher sample rates alone do nothing to improve the > situation for the benefits the paper talks about. Right? Again by setting up a specious argument, i.e. that temporal blurring is audible, MQA has people chasing their tail in an effort to disprove that temporal blurring is nonsense. How about MQA first proves that temporal blurring is in fact audible. I say this because up until MQA made this stuff up, no one was even aware of this grave distortion that just so happens to be corrected by, oh my god what a surprise, MQA. I believe that all of this is covered in each and every Marketing 101 course. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
I am pretty sure the lower bits were declared most important if they not were used for the Origami. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Funny. It's a duck. So to disprove the value of this duck is very much to show that the temporal information on the timescales talked about is either irrelevant (I.e. physically incapable of being heard) or is preserved in standard recording/playback techniques anyway without mqa help. There's a lot in here that acknowledged what you guys have been saying for years - to whit that "literally no one needs more than 20 bits" and that "actually for the vast majority of recordings 16 bit will do" and secondly that higher sample rates alone do nothing to improve the situation for the benefits the paper talks about. Right? drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > I'm waiting for a refutation rather than name calling... Temporal blurring is a canard and I don't waste my time refuting canards since the whole purpose of canards is to make one waste their time trying to refute instead of having a real fact based discussion. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
I'm waiting for a refutation rather than name calling... drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Fizbin wrote: > http://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-questions-and-answers#OPfFkc1xz2LYjmzc.97 > > Everything you wanted to know about MCQ but were afraid to ask. Thanks for the link. However I had great difficulty trying to read the article due to transmissional blurring. For those of you unfamiliar with transmissional blurring, this refers to the slight distortion (or "blurring") of the digital data that occurs at each relay point that the data passes through when being transmitted over the Internet. Since there can often be hundreds of these relay points that the data must pass through as it is being transmitted from a web site to one's computer and since all the distortions are additive, there are times when the transmissional blurring not only becomes visible but when this blurring can cause the data to become unreadable. Disclaimer: The above paragraph was entirely made up by yours truly. Hey two can play at the game of making stupid sh*t up. And let's not forget about gravitational blurring, which is caused by gravitational waves and which has basically ruined music listening for me since they were first detected earlier this year. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/12/science/ligo-gravitational-waves-black-holes-einstein.html Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Fizbin wrote: > Everything you wanted to know about MCQ but were afraid to ask. Or at least "everything they want you to believe about MCQ"... :) "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
http://www.stereophile.com/content/mqa-questions-and-answers#OPfFkc1xz2LYjmzc.97 Everything you wanted to know about MCQ but were afraid to ask. Fizbin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58734 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
arnyk wrote: > Does *Science* have to explain -everything- in order for any of the > explanations that it provides to be valid? I was hoping people would realize I was resorting to irony... "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > Re: https://sourceforge.net/projects/album-art/ > > Just realised this is a Windows only project. No use for me, sorry. I > will however take a look at some of the back end downloader scripts as > it may be possible to use some of the same tricks. Has anyone seen cover art that is processed via MQA? It's all folded in on itself and the file sizes are really, really tiny, less than 1kb. However when using a MQA certified display adapter and monitor (yes both MUST be certified) to view the cover art the file unfolds to fill the entire screen. The images are super crisp and all blurring is removed. Truly amazing Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Wombat wrote: > It uses maybe around 20 scripts to check for art. Re: https://sourceforge.net/projects/album-art/ Just realised this is a Windows only project. No use for me, sorry. I will however take a look at some of the back end downloader scripts as it may be possible to use some of the same tricks. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
RonM wrote: > In general, I can find the cover in acceptable resolution online in a > fraction of the time it takes to scan and process the cover. But yeah, > to everything else. For jazz and classical, I want also the entire liner notes. Those are ot easy to find for most, hence I scan them. ...pablo Server: Virtual Machine (on VMware Workstation 12) running Ubuntu 16.04 + LMS 7.9 System: SB Touch --optical->- Benchmark DAC2HGC --AnalysisPlus Oval Copper XLR->- NAD M22 Power Amp --AnalysisPlus Black Mesh Oval->- Totem Element Fire Other Rooms: 2x SB Boom; 1x SB Radio; 1x SB Classic-> NAD D7050 -> Totem DreamCatcher + Velodyne Minivee Sub Computer audio: workstation --USB->- audioengine D1 -> Grado PS500e/Shure 1540 pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Yeah I remember those. Yes, that would work but support for them was patchy. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > Perhaps someone should extended CD Red Book to include a metadata > segment where artworks and a PDF of the booklet could be embedded That format already exists - Blue Book (commonly known as "CD Extra"). Discs of this type have two sessions - the first is a standard red book CD-DA session (so standard CD players read them just fine), then a second session of whatever CD-ROM format data you feel like. They became fairly common in the late 1990s, and often included things like videos in the data session. Artwork and PDFs could easily be included if desired. But the format seems to have fallen into disuse now. Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Wombat wrote: > It uses maybe around 20 scripts to check for art. You can easily compare > in a preview the quality and size it finds on all these places with > defined minimum size for example. You will see relying on one source > only seldom gives best quality. On new releases the itunes or qobuz hits > often are best. You may use one of its scripts for your project. I have found using Amazon alone generally good enough for a squeezebox touch display so I didn't bother looking any harder, but the above looks great for filling in the gaps in your collection. For scripting purposes the trickiest bit is getting the right search terms. The cddb title/artist doesn't always match how it's listed on Amazon or others, particularly for more unusual stuff or for EPs and so on. I would say about 70% of discs I've ripped go straight through he process and get the right metadata and correct album art without any further intervention though. Perhaps someone should extended CD Red Book to include a metadata segment where artworks and a PDF of the booklet could be embedded.. (I recently updated to an in-car CD player (the tape player broke about 10 years ago..) and was amazed to find it actually reads CD-Text for titles and artist..!) drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > Looks like a GUI. Is it scriptable? It uses maybe around 20 scripts to check for art. You can easily compare in a preview the quality and size it finds on all these places with defined minimum size for example. You will see relying on one source only seldom gives best quality. On new releases the itunes or qobuz hits often are best. You may use one of its scripts for your project. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Wombat wrote: > imho best cover art finder https://sourceforge.net/projects/album-art/ > At least for front covers. Looks like a GUI. Is it scriptable? drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > There's an API for getting album covers from Amazon.. you just need a > aws key and a bit of Perl.. so I've now got unattended ripping via a > cron job. Well, obviously you still have to manually insert the disc imho best cover art finder https://sourceforge.net/projects/album-art/ At least for front covers. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
RonM wrote: > In general, I can find the cover in acceptable resolution online in a > fraction of the time it takes to scan and process the cover. But yeah, > to everything else. There's an API for getting covers from Amazon.. you just need a aws key and a bit of Perl.. I have unattended ripping via a cron job. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
pablolie wrote: > Whatever media I get I digitize on the spot, and scan the cover. To me > convenience is a key part of listening to music. In general, I can find the cover in acceptable resolution online in a fraction of the time it takes to scan and process the cover. But yeah, to everything else. LMS on a dedicated server (FitPC3) Transporter (Ethernet) - main listening, Onkyo receiver, Paradigm speakers Touch (WiFi) - home theater 5.1, Sony receiver, Energy speakers Boom 1 (WiFi) - work-space Boom 2 (WiFi) - various (deck, garage, etc.) Radio (WiFi) - home office Control - Squeeze Control (Android mobile), 2 Controllers (seldom used), Squeeze Remote (on Surface Pro 2) Touch x 1 - spare UE Radio x 1 - spare Boom x 1 - spare Controller x 1 - Spare Duet Receiver (backup) RonM's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17029 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > RE: dvd-a etc > Me, because I'd rather have a single disc with four or twelve hours of > audio than yet another box set that costs fifty quid. > Avoiding unnecessary and wasteful so-called high resolution formats allows that to be accomplished. > > As for flac compression ratio, let me Google that for you.. wikipedia > quotes "50-60%" of original file size, MLP quote "1.5:1". I'm sure I > don't need to explain the difference between these numbers. Simple algebra shows that 1.5:1 (MLP) is the same as 66% of original file size. The difference between 60% of original file size (FLAC in some cases) and 66% of original file size (MLP in come cases) can easily be explained by specsmanship and/or cherry-picking examples. It is not that much. regardless. In contrast simply using uncompressed 44/16 as opposed to 24/192 yields much higher space gains. 1 channel of 44/16 is 704 kb/sec, while 1 channel of 24/96 gobbles space at 2304 kb/sec and 24/192 at 4608 kb/sec. I believe that simply using a sane 44/16 format gives you file size of about 30% or 15% depending which wasteful so-called high resolution format you choose as your baseline. I've used FLAC many times, see its value, but its compression, like most other lossless compression techniques is highly dependent on choice of program material. Not a fault, just how these things work. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
arnyk wrote: > Who cares since we know that so-called high resolution audio has no > audible benefits? Me, because I'd rather have a single disc with four or twelve hours of audio than yet another box set that costs fifty quid. As for flac compression ratio, let me Google that for you.. wikipedia quotes "50-60%" of original file size, MLQ quote "1.5:1". I'm sure I don't need to explain the difference between these numbers. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
arnyk wrote: > Open source = no royalty payments. > > Who cares since we know that so-called high resolution audio has no > audible benefits? > > I can't say that I'm against physical media, not with a personal library > in excess of 1,000 discs. On Open Source - many companies make nice profits with it. If you have the credibility, services and consulting are eminently monetize-able. Arguably, if Meridian made MQA open source there'd be less of a debate about it, and more people would take it up wherever it happens to me sense (a narrow focus if you ask me, but I posted that earlier). Because there's cost involved, potential beneficiaries will still run a strict cost-benefit analysis. And some of the benefits ma have nothing to do with the sheer obsession with sound quality - it might be yet another way to control distribution and the overall ecosystem. On HD Audio having no audible benefits... quite a rational and defensible argument. But peace of mind for archiving purposes as storage cost drops down dramatically is also to be considered. I did make a point to acquire HD all time favorites when special offers where available. I don't like to struggle and concentrate on silly stuff when I listen to music, hence I hate blind tests - let other people bother, I'll take their word for it. I have some pretty resolving equipment, but damn me if I *care* to hear a difference. Sometimes, on very familiar and very well recorded favorites, I have thought I could hear "something", hence where I have it I simply listen to the HD version and know anything else is in my head. Done. That said, I think 24/192 is total overkill in any end user's listening environment, and yet why not for albums we totally treasure. Yeah on physical media. I used to have several drawers full of CDs (over 3000) and now they're are stored out of sight. I'll never ever spin CDs or vinyl again when it comes to my main system. Whatever media I get I digitize on the spot, and scan the cover. To me convenience is a key part of listening to music. Getting up to change media... I no longer miss it, nor do I for a second think it sounds any better than the digitized version ...pablo Server: Virtual Machine (on VMware Workstation 12) running Ubuntu 16.04 + LMS 7.9 System: SB Touch --optical->- Benchmark DAC2HGC --AnalysisPlus Oval Copper XLR->- NAD M22 Power Amp --AnalysisPlus Black Mesh Oval->- Totem Element Fire Other Rooms: 2x SB Boom; 1x SB Radio; 1x SB Classic-> NAD D7050 -> Totem DreamCatcher + Velodyne Minivee Sub Computer audio: workstation --USB->- audioengine D1 -> Grado PS500e/Shure 1540 pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > So I see, a pity the commercial world doesn't like open source. > Open source = no royalty payments. > > I believe FLAC achieves better compression, no? > Reference? > > I understand blu ray, at least, does also support up to at least six > 24/96k pcm audio streams (which would be about 13Mbit). I make that > about 4 hours of six channel high res audio per single sided blu ray, or > obviously 12 hours of two channel.. bring it on! No more pointless > multidisc sets.. (and obviously ridiculously long runtimes for 16/44.1 > etc..) > Who cares since we know that so-called high resolution audio has no audible benefits? > > I'm old fashioned, I like to buy a piece of media rather than a > too-easily accidentally deleted download but am slowly realising the > fact that I never actually play anything directly from media anyway.. I can't say that I'm against physical media, not with a personal library in excess of 1,000 discs. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
arnyk wrote: > A lossless compression technique was desired because the DVD format > lacked the data capacity required to put uncompressed hi rez > multichannel PCM on a DVD disc. The methodology chose by the DVD forum > was called MLP and is the piece that Meridian owned. So I see, a pity the commercial world doesn't like open source. I believe flac achieves better compression, no? I understand blu ray, at least, does also support up to at least six 24/96k pcm audio streams (which would be about 13Mbit). I make that about 4 hours of six channel high res audio per single sided blu ray, or obviously 12 hours of two channel.. bring it on! No more pointless multidisc sets.. (and obviously ridiculously long runtimes for 16/44.1 etc..) I'm old fashioned, I like to buy a piece of media rather than a too-easily accidentally deleted download but am slowly realising the fact that I never actually play anything directly from media anyway.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
cdmackay wrote: > > > I fear that the intention was nothing of the sort. I believe the > intention was nothing more than an attempt to hood-wink people into > spending money on something they don't need, to solve a problem that > doesn't exist, using a mixture of pseudo-science, unscientific tests, > and corrupt mass-media. I don't believe there was any good intention > behind it. > > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rHcXP7PExksxZfkif3Rv2CT1Y_ESpNSv2b0nkKlBySk/edit#gid=0 This listing shows > 400 DACs on the marketplace, and those are just the ones with DSD support. Obviously the market for DACs is fragmented beyond belief, and vendors will add just about any feature to make their products stand up above the huge crowd. The feature not be in any way economical or effective, given that there are products being offered at $36,000 and up. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
An unique selling point Meridian had back in the 2000's was a fully digital Signal path for multich or 2ch dvda hirez. Your hirez data was in most cases turned in to analog after the player , but in a Meridian hifi it could be used by a Meridian processor and speakers still in the digital domain . The copyright paranoia made it virtually impossible to have full range digital out in the early days of dvda and sacd ? Yes it was that bad . There was cases where early players had a limited resolutin on digital outputs ? Nowadays it been eased up and relaxed by hdmi and companies like oppo and downloads and is a non issue. Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > > Didn't know they owned dvd-a. > Meridian didn't own DVD-A. The DVD-A format was developed by Panasonic. It was licensed to the DVD Forum as an alternative to SACD which was a proprietary format developed and owned by Philips and Sony. There was a format war and as is not unusual, nobody won. The fact that it was based on the myth of the euphonic properties of hi rez audio didn't help. > > What exactly was wrong with just providing PCM audio on a DVD!? > Depending on what you want to do, nothing. There is a DVD format for two channel 24/96 PCM that predates DVD-A. Discs and players for this format were in limited production and sale prior to the introduction of DVD-A. A lossless compression technique was desired because the DVD format lacked the data capacity required to put uncompressed hi rez multichannel PCM on a DVD disc. The methodology chose by the DVD forum was called MLP and is the piece that Meridian owned. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
The good thing with dvda was discreet 5ch pcm , like 5 ch 24/96 or any mix between like 24/48 back channels . The normal dvd video format can package 2ch pcm at 24/192 if you, there was such disc formsalemfor a while . Now you can get bluerays with it :) but its still MLP the format meridian developed for dvda it is used on blueray but its now named dolby true-hd or whatnot licens via dolby who meridian partnered with. Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
cdmackay wrote: > I dunno. It sounds like you are saying: "there's a desire to sort things > out, and create useful standards, and that's good. The result was MQA, > which isn't good, but still, the intention was good". Is that what > you're saying? > > I fear that the intention was nothing of the sort. I believe the > intention was nothing more than an attempt to hood-wink people into > spending money on something they don't need, to solve a problem that > doesn't exist, using a mixture of pseudo-science, unscientific tests, > and corrupt mass-media. I don't believe there was any good intention > behind it. > > I would be happy if you were right, though. Yes. Basically. I would too. I suspect you are right, to some extent. The truth is usually somewhere between the two obvious extremes. Didn't know they owned dvd-a. Perhaps that's why that, too, has failed spectacularly. What exactly was wrong with just providing pcm audio on a DVD!? drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Fizbin wrote: > I posted this link in the comments section of the 'inconvenient truth' > article. > > http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2016/02/measurements-impressions-meridian.html > > 9 Hours later, the moderators have yet to approve. (Yet I see another > post that says "1 hour ago") Just another example of how web sites that cater to golden ears censor posts and ban people who don't reinforce the hosts's beliefs. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Licensing a new format is the holy grail for each company and they are willing to fight hard for the success of such a format. It's easy money, if your format hit the market successfully. See BluRay-HDDVD and other format wars in the past. ae67's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=29964 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
cdmackay wrote: > I dunno. It sounds like you are saying: "there's a desire to sort things > out, and create useful standards, and that's good. The result was MQA, > which isn't good, but still, the intention was good". Is that what > you're saying? > > I fear that the intention was nothing of the sort. I believe the > intention was nothing more than an attempt to hood-wink people into > spending money on something they don't need, to solve a problem that > doesn't exist, using a mixture of pseudo-science, unscientific tests, > and corrupt mass-media. I don't believe there was any good intention > behind it. > > I would be happy if you were right, though. Odds are MQA is a product of Meridian, who previously had a small but steady flow of income from licensing MLP, which is the standard lossless data compression algorithm for DVD-As. The myth of the efficacy of > CD quality recording has kept Meridian alive since MLP was introduced at the 9th regional AES conference in 1999. They've got a 17 year history of feeding from the so-called high definition audio trough. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > Yes it sounds like MQA is already dying on its feet. No matter, perhaps > the inertia or desire for a standard can be used to produce a better > one... > > In the old days we'd have got the BBC to do it.. but that's been > neutered and can't produce its own obituary. I dunno. It sounds like you are saying: "there's a desire to sort things out, and create useful standards, and that's good. The result was MQA, which isn't good, but still, the intention was good". Is that what you're saying? I fear that the intention was nothing of the sort. I believe the intention was nothing more than an attempt to hood-wink people into spending money on something they don't need, to solve a problem that doesn't exist, using a mixture of pseudo-science, unscientific tests, and corrupt mass-media. I don't believe there was any good intention behind it. I would be happy if you were right, though. cdmackay's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=24816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
jfo wrote: > ha haa reminder of days long ago! And then we have... > > The smell of the rain-washed florin! > The lure of the lira! > The glitter and the glory of the guinea! > The romance of the ruble! > The feel of the franc! > The heel of the deutschmark! > The cold antiseptic sting of the Swiss franc! > And the sunburnt splendor of the Australian dollar! Nice one boys. Call me tradition... I just want my GOLD. :-) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
jfo wrote: > ha haa reminder of days long ago! And then we have... > > The smell of the rain-washed florin! > The lure of the lira! > The glitter and the glory of the guinea! > The romance of the ruble! > The feel of the franc! > The heel of the deutschmark! > The cold antiseptic sting of the Swiss franc! > And the sunburnt splendor of the Australian dollar! ;) kidstypike LMS on Raspberry Pi 3/max2play/HiFiBerry DAC+ > AVI DM5 1 x SB3 - 1 x Boom - 1 x (Squeezebox) Radio - 2 x Touch - 2 x Raspberry Pi/max2play/HiFiBerry kidstypike's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10436 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
kidstypike wrote: > And the reason is money, some of it in nice piles, others in lovely > clanky bits of loose change. Some of it neatly counted into fat > little hundreds, delicate fivers stuffed into bulging wallets, > nice crisp clean checks, pert pieces of copper coinage thrust deep > into trouser pockets, romantic foreign money rolling against the > thigh with rough familiarity, beautiful wayward curlicued > banknotes, filigreed copper plating cheek by jowl with tumbly > rubbing gently against the terse leather of beautifully balanced > bank books!! > > :p ha haa reminder of days long ago! And then we have... The smell of the rain-washed florin! The lure of the lira! The glitter and the glory of the guinea! The romance of the ruble! The feel of the franc! The heel of the deutschmark! The cold antiseptic sting of the Swiss franc! And the sunburnt splendor of the Australian dollar! jfo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1135 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Mnyb wrote: > Its a classic marketting scheme . First you present the "problem" and > then for some reason you have the solution :) Exactly. In the case of MQA we see the misdeed being done at their web site: http://www.mqa.co.uk/customer/how-it-works "Conventional audio formats discard parts of the sound to keep file size down, but part of this lost detail is the subtle timing information that allows us to build a realistic 3D soundscape in our minds. "Without it, music becomes flattened. And our ears know it isn’t real. "With MQA, we go all the way back to the original master recording and capture the missing timing detail. We then use advanced digital processing to deliver it in a form that’s small enough to download or stream. False claims: > Conventional audio formats discard parts of the sound to keep file size > down. In fact the information that is discarded is information outside of the dynamic range and bandwidth known to be required for a recording that is indistinguishable from the analog signal direct from the recording microphones. > ...part of this lost detail is the subtle timing information that allows > us to build a realistic 3D soundscape in our minds" The so-called subtle timing information that MQA preserves or creates out of whole cloth is known to be inaudible. Its loss does not cause music to be flattened because its presence or absence is known to be inaudible. A means for creating more realistic 3D soundstages has been known and widely used for several decades. It's known as multichannel audio. > With MQA, we go all the way back to the original master recording and > capture the missing timing detail." MQA can't go back to original master recordings and capture information that is not there in the first place. If they synthesize is, then it is well, synthetic which is not the same as being more realistic. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Mnyb wrote: > Its a classic marketting scheme . First you present the "problem" and > then for some reason you have the solution :) And the reason is money, some of it in nice piles, others in lovely clanky bits of loose change. Some of it neatly counted into fat little hundreds, delicate fivers stuffed into bulging wallets, nice crisp clean checks, pert pieces of copper coinage thrust deep into trouser pockets, romantic foreign money rolling against the thigh with rough familiarity, beautiful wayward curlicued banknotes, filigreed copper plating cheek by jowl with tumbly rubbing gently against the terse leather of beautifully balanced bank books!! :p kidstypike LMS on Raspberry Pi 3/max2play/HiFiBerry DAC+ > AVI DM5 1 x SB3 - 1 x Boom - 1 x (Squeezebox) Radio - 2 x Touch - 2 x Raspberry Pi/max2play/HiFiBerry kidstypike's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10436 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Archimago wrote: > drmatt: "Actually I'd rather see a "thx like" mastering standard ..." > > Yeah, I think something like this applied as a "standard" for which > high-resolution recordings can be certified as such might be > beneficial... Hard to imagine this happening though given how far down > Wonderland the consumer associations and how meaningless the "Hi-Res > Audio" logo and definition has become. The "branding" is already damaged > and continues to be nothing more than hype, playing on impressionable > audiophile insecurities who desire "big numbers" like 192kHz, 24-bits, > DSD128+... Folks like Neil Young and Bob Stuart are not helping the > situation. > > As for MQA, I think it's pretty clear that it's DOA. With negatives > coming out of Schiit and PS Audio, and the obvious ridiculousness of > TAS's articles, the hype ain't working. This is good IMO. Unlike DSD > which is dying by virtue of just not delivering despite its time in the > sun, if audiophiles can stand up and call BS on stuff like MQA... Yes it sounds like MQA is already dying on its feet. No matter, perhaps the inertia or desire for a standard can be used to produce a better one... In the old days we'd have got the BBC to do it.. but that's been neutered and can't produce its own obituary. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
So. If you'll stop assuming you know what I mean when you clearly don't you'll read the bit about what I'd like to see (the thx-y bit) and less about MQA. I don't give too shakes of a monkey's dong about MQA itself to be honest, just would like to see the industry get behind /something/ or anything that helps move away from the wild west of mastering in the mainstream. If MQA is a waste of space at least it shows a willingness to look for standards. Even if as it stands it's pointless. As for the crap about fat sausages I can't believe I'm seeing this conversation in a so called audiophile forum. I don't see any point in elaborating on what was just a passing example of something that is often symptomatic of bad technique and was totally not the point... drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Its a classic marketting scheme . First you present the "problem" and then for some reason you have the solution :) Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Arny, thanks for the discussion on thresholds and the presentation. Good stuff! drmatt: "Actually I'd rather see a "thx like" mastering standard with guideline volume levels and listening levels, than this specific MQA thing as it seems like it's marginal in effectiveness. But any attempt to introduce a standard might push the industry towards something more complete and effective." Yeah, I think something like this applied as a "standard" for which high-resolution recordings can be certified as such might be beneficial... Hard to imagine this happening though given how far down Wonderland the consumer associations and how meaningless the "Hi-Res Audio" logo and definition has become. The "branding" is already damaged and continues to be nothing more than hype, playing on impressionable audiophile insecurities who desire "big numbers" like 192kHz, 24-bits, DSD128+... Folks like Neil Young and Bob Stuart are not helping the situation. As for MQA, I think it's pretty clear that it's DOA. With negatives coming out of Schiit and PS Audio, and the obvious ridiculousness of TAS's articles, the hype ain't working. This is good IMO. Unlike DSD which is dying by virtue of just not delivering despite its time in the sun, if audiophiles can stand up and call BS on stuff like MQA, then *maybe* the industry can start to recognize that they better innovate and that audiophiles are moving out of being audiophools. The same old hype isn't going to work. Hopefully this also correlates with a more mature audiophile hobby with more objective folks seeking understanding rather than testimony and faith promulgated by the "mainstream audiophile press". Looking ahead, I'd be very curious if TIDAL actually ever delivers on the MQA streaming audio. I would not be surprised if it never comes out and just gets "delayed" -ad infinitum-. If I were Jay-Z, I'd be nervous about pouring more money into the pit to deliver a product that few would be able to access or care about... Nevermind that well encoded high bitrate MP3 already sounds indistinguishable from lossless FLAC. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > > > > arny as Dr. Matt cut it to ribbons wrote: > > > > Fat sausage mastering is so popular because there is a perception that > > it helps sell recordings. > > > > > > > arny as he wrote it wrote: > > > > Fat sausage mastering is so popular because there is a perception that > > it helps sell recordings. When recordings are played near the ambient > > noise level (e.g. portable player in high noise environment or as > > background music in an office) it makes the recording more clearly > > audible. Of course it sucks the life out of recordings when played at > > the levels many use when doing dedicated music listening, but that mode > > of usage is not the rule. > > > > > > > > > > > I am well aware of all this. > > > > > > Really? If so then why do you butcher my statement as shown above? > Why limit the effects of compression to just radio, when in fact it > can affect any form of reproduction? > > > > > > > Most commonly it is seen in conjunction with heavy compression and > > squashed dynamic range (and sometimes outright distortion), which could > > be an artistic choice but most often is more to do with making it sound > > loud on the radio, > > > > > > Radios often have nothing to do with the desire for compression. > > > > > > > and to hell with the sound quality for those that take the time to > > listen properly. Very frustrating. > > > > > > Compression improves perceived sound quality in certain common > environments, most of which have nothing to do with radio. Furthermore > there are radio stations that don't use compression. > > > > > > > Well that's right, it doesn't go anywhere near far enough. Which is why > > I suggested it's part of a first step only... > > > > > > How is something that has no audible benefits good as part of a first > step? > > As others have pointed out, MQA's developers based MQA on an alleged > sonic problem that was in fact a fabrication of their minds, something > that is actually not an audible problem during sound reproduction. I > guarantee I can fix your stereo if what I purport to fix is something > that I just dreamed up and deceived you into thinking it exists. By > demonstrating my alleged invention only with sighted evaluations I can > trick suggestible people (with sighted evaluations that's just about > everybody who plays their game) into confirming the efficacy of my > alleged invention. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
arnyk wrote: > The claim has been made that MQA covers the reproduction system > end-to-end, but that claim breaks down in reality. I haven't seen it in action, just read a few online reports. It implies that this is the goal. > For example how can a Steely Dan recording recorded and mixed some > decades ago be end-to-end MQA qualified?? Where is the list of MQA- > qualified speakers or room treatments? Obviously. I don't know, i don't work for them. They imply there will be one. > Fat sausage mastering is so popular because there is a perception that > it helps sell recordings. I am well aware of all this. Most commonly it is seen in conjunction with heavy compression and squashed dynamic range (and sometimes outright distortion), which could be an artistic choice but most often is more to do with making it sound loud on the radio, and to hell with the sound quality for those that take the time to listen properly. Very frustrating. > Application of reason suggests that no way a globally-applied automated > process like MQA can provide comparable results. Well that's right, it doesn't go anywhere near far enough. Which is why I suggested it's part of a first step only... Actually I'd rather see a "thx like" mastering standard with guideline volume levels and listening levels, than this specific MQA thing as it seems like it's marginal in effectiveness. But any attempt to introduce a standard might push the industry towards something more complete and effective. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > I don't think it can be a bad thing to qualify individual ADCs and DACs > such as this process entails in an end-to-end manner. Qualifying DACs can be a bad idea if it is part of a scheme that has no reliably perceptible benefits and raises the cost of DACs. Well, its bad to those of us who spend real money on real hardware and aren't like trust fund babies. One of the things that needs to be understood is what kind of performance differences does it take to deliver an audible difference, let alone an audible benefit. For example, a recent AES paper (I cited in a recent post) found the following: 20559 The interpretation of this is that dynamic range improvements above 85 dB have not been found to be audible with any music under any circumstance, and improvements above 70 dB are not audible in most cases. Similarly, improvements that effect response above 18-20 KHz have not been found to be audible with any music under any circumstance, and improvements above 13-14 kHz are not audible in most cases. In both the cases of dynamic range and frequency response, a good clean CD-quality system exceeds or meets the most stringent requirements. MQA does not have reliably perceptible benefits. Obviously, we have pleny of evidence that it does show a benefit in sighted evaluations, but that should be taken as yet another valid condemnation of sighted evaluations for critical decisions like these. +---+ |Filename: individual high res audio.jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=20559| +---+ arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
ralphpnj wrote: > The MQA process starts off by making an invalid assumption and then > builds up from that falsehood. An analog audio signal (which is simply a > type of electrical signal) is converted to a digital audio signal by an > ADC (analog to digital converter) and then the resulting digital audio > file is send to a DAC (digital to analog converter) where the digital > signal is converted back to an analog audio signal. The present day ADC > / DACconversion chain already produces an analog audio signal that is > exactly the same as the original unconverted analog audio signal. So > where is all this improvement happening? Please explain. I didn't design the process so I am not in a position to explain what it does or why it does it. I am referring to the concept only of a calibrated record and playback chain. I am however aware that there is no ideal piece of electronics on the planet and therefore I don't think I agree that the analogue audio signal is perfectly retrieved in all cases. Good though most systems are, there are differences and maybe a branded certification process is what's required to pull the music industry into shape, regardless of the merits of the maths this particular certification process includes. Personally I'm of the opinion that 16/44.1 is good enough, in general. I don't have a problem with people mastering to 24/192 if they can, however, as the data rates are still small enough to be pretty portable and in theory the extra bits gives you more latitude in mastering. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > I don't think it can be a bad thing to qualify individual ADCs and DACs > such as this process entails in an end-to-end manner. > The claim has been made that MQA covers the reproduction system end-to-end, but that claim breaks down in reality. We have before us are claims that streaming files from a MQA server provides the advantages of MQA with any DAC whether MQA quslified or not. Obviously most people who are talking about the alleged benefits of playing MQA files don't have MQA qualified systems from end to end. For example how czn a Steely Dan recording recorded and mixed some decades ago be end-to-end MQA qualified?? Where is the list of MQA- qualified speakers or room treatments? > > This format may well be a faltering "step one" towards a very much > required audio standard that will stop the "fat sausage" mastering of > digital audio and improve quality for everyone. Fat sausage mastering is so popular because there is a perception that it helps sell recordings. When recordings are played near the ambient noise level (e.g. portable player in high noise environment or as background music in an office) it makes the recording more clearly audible. Of course it sucks the life out of recordings when played at the levels many use when doing dedicated music listening, but that mode of usage is not the rule. Furthermore, since it is a superficial analysis, analyzing a recording to see if it has the volume envelope of a fat sausage can be meaningless. For example, the fat sausage visual effect can be removed with equalization or even all-pass filtering, but that processing does not change the lifeless nature of the hyper-compressed recording. If one wishes to study the problem of hyper-compression and frequency response mangling, I've found that digitized CDs of classic Motown recordings provide many examples. In general the Motown label CDs of classic Motown hits are hypercompresssed and also have some pretty intense frequency response mangling. Some more recent versions of these on other labels (e.g. Polygram) the same identical songs have been remastered and in some cases remixed which generally provides a significant audible improvements in sound quality. It should be noted that each of the reworked recordings are hand made by skilled experienced individuals with sophisticated equipment for dealing with these issues and with access to masters that are not available to the public. Application of reason suggests that no way a globally-applied automated process like MQA can provide comparable results. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Julf wrote: > "So you think science can explain everything?" :) Does *Science* have to explain -everything- in order for any of the explanations that it provides to be valid? arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
drmatt wrote: > I don't think it can be a bad thing to qualify individual ADCs and DACs > such as this process entails in an end-to-end manner. This format may > well be a faltering "step one" towards a very much required audio > standard that will stop the "fat sausage" mastering of digital audio and > improve quality for everyone. The MQA process starts off by making an invalid assumption and then builds up from that falsehood. An analog audio signal (which is simply a type of electrical signal) is converted to a digital audio signal by an ADC (analog to digital converter) and then the resulting digital audio file is send to a DAC (digital to analog converter) where the digital signal is converted back to an analog audio signal. The present day ADC / DACconversion chain already produces an analog audio signal that is exactly the same as the original unconverted analog audio signal. So where is all this improvement happening? Please explain. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Julf wrote: > "So you think science can explain everything?" :) In terms of audio and human hearing - yes! These are well explored fields of science with no missing magical components, even if some so-called audiophile snake oil dealers try to make us believe. ae67's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=29964 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
I don't think it can be a bad thing to qualify individual ADCs and DACs such as this process entails in an end-to-end manner. This format may well be a faltering "step one" towards a very much required audio standard that will stop the "fat sausage" mastering of digital audio and improve quality for everyone. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
ralphpnj wrote: > Audiophiles really need to get an understanding of the basic laws of > electricity that apply to ALL electronically reproduced audio. (Hint: > don't expect to find any useful information in any high end audio > publication.) For example: once the electrical signal leaves the > microphone it is no longer an audio signal but simply an electrical > signal and as such it is subject to the exact same laws and behaves in > the exact same way as any other electrical signal. "So you think science can explain everything?" :) "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
They actually ended up posting it, afterall...15 hours later. Fizbin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58734 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Fizbin wrote: > I posted this link in the comments section of the 'inconvenient truth' > article. > > http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2016/02/measurements-impressions-meridian.html > > 9 Hours later, the moderators have yet to approve. (Yet I see another > post that says "1 hour ago") Why am I not the least bit surprised. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
I posted this link in the comments section of the 'inconvenient truth' article. http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2016/02/measurements-impressions-meridian.html 9 Hours later, the moderators have yet to approve. (Yet I see another post that says "1 hour ago") Fizbin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58734 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Apesbrain wrote: > I understand your argument but the author's explanation is that MQA -- > being a "process" encompassing the entire recording/playback chain -- > removes the distortions (frequency and temporal) to which we've long > become accustomed in non-MQA source material. (Compare to the Plangent > processing applied to master tape sources on some recent digital > remasters.) Again, I believe it makes sense to withhold judgement > pending personal experience with the format. Temporal blurring, as the MQA folks quaintly call some nonsense that they made up, is, for lack of a better term, completely made up nonsense. Maybe MQA might improve the sound an original recording made using a MQA enable recording chain but on existing recordings MQA is no more than some fancy equalization, unless of course, MQA is so amazing that it even manages to rewrite the laws of electricity. Audiophiles really need to get an understanding of the basic laws of electricity that apply to ALL electronically reproduced audio. (Hint: don't expect to find any useful information in any high end audio publication.) For example: once the electrical signal leaves the microphone it is no longer an audio signal but simply an electrical signal and as such it is subject to the exact same laws and behaves in the exact same way as any other electrical signal. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Apesbrain wrote: > Alas, I fear it will be of limited utility to me. I'll never subscribe > to Tidal and much of the music I most love -- "golden era" classical -- > will likely never be released in the MQA format. Even if, at this stage > in my life I don't see myself buying all of these titles one more time. > Cool for young people coming into the market, though. Yeah, but young people haven't drunk the audiophile cool-aid, so their market will be really limited unless they can "remaster" the same old material already recycled in every possible format... "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Summarizing that article, in the reviewer's experience with the MQA-processed files at hand: - MQA played on an MQA-enabled DAC sounds "better" than its non-MQA hi-res equivalent - MQA played on a non-MQA DAC sounds "better" than its non-MQA equivalent. In other words, MQA has the potential to offer sound quality improvement for everyone not just those with MQA-enabled DACs. One man's opinion but intriguing nonetheless. He offers some technical insight in the article as to why this would be the case. I'm looking forward to an opportunity to test this myself with music that I know well. Alas, I fear it will be of limited utility to me. I'll never subscribe to Tidal and much of the music I most love -- "golden era" classical -- will likely never be released in the MQA format. Even if, at this stage in my life I don't see myself buying all of these titles one more time. Cool for young people coming into the market, though. arnyk wrote: > More specifically, they claim that MQA sounds better than 24/96 linear > PCM, which is a common reference If it in fact sounde better than the > reference, then it is obviously audibly colored, which most would agree > is a FAIL. I understand your argument but the author's explanation is that MQA -- being a "process" encompassing the entire recording/playback chain -- removes the distortions (frequency and temporal) to which we've long become accustomed in non-MQA source material. (Compare to the Plangent processing applied to master tape sources on some recent digital remasters.) Again, I believe it makes sense to withhold judgement pending personal experience with the format. Apesbrain's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=738 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
arnyk wrote: > More specifically, they claim that MQA sounds better than 24/96 linear > PCM, which is a common reference If it in fact sounde better than the > reference, then it is obviously audibly colored, which most would agree > is a FAIL. +1 "audibly colored" is another way of saying equalized and an equalized audio file is not the way the original artists and recording engineers intended the recording to sound. So again a FAIL. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: LMS 7.9 on dedicated windows 10 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Fizbin wrote: > "An inconvenient truth: MQA sounds better!" > > http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/06/an-inconvenient-truth-mqa-sounds-better/ More specifically, they claim that MQA sounds better than 24/96 linear PCM, which is a common reference If it in fact sounde better than the reference, then it is obviously audibly colored, which most would agree is a FAIL. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/06/an-inconvenient-truth-mqa-sounds-better/ Fizbin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58734 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Archimago wrote: > Well, I really hope this isn't the future for Apple! > > IMO, if Steve Jobs were still around I think he'll look at this and be > unimpressed with the scheme. Of course we're dealing with Tim Cook these > days so who knows what he's up to. Considering how reluctant Apple has > been to even allow their mobile hardware to function beyond 48kHz, I'd > be amazed if they suddenly embrace MQA with all this focus on > "unfolding" their "audio origami" into 192kHz and higher. Just think about it for a minute - MQA's proprietary technology wrapped into Apple's closed and proprietary ecosystem equals proprietary squared. Makes plain old DRM seem quaint. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
sckramer wrote: > Meridian had to know this wouldn't fly, especially with "Authenticated" > in the name-- Wonder if something bigger is going on here, i.e. an Apple > deal, and this will be the tech behind a new HD iTunes / Beats 1 & built > into iPhone7/7s's DAC Well, I really hope this isn't the future for Apple! IMO, if Steve Jobs were still around I think he'll look at this and be unimpressed with the scheme. Of course we're dealing with Tim Cook these days so who knows what he's up to. Considering how reluctant Apple has been to even allow their mobile hardware to function beyond 48kHz, I'd be amazed if they suddenly embrace MQA with all this focus on "unfolding" their "audio origami" into 192kHz and higher. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Meridian had to know this wouldn't fly, especially with "Authenticated" in the name-- Wonder if something bigger is going on here, i.e. an Apple deal, and this is the tech behind a new HD iTunes & built into iPhone7/7s CiAudio VDC-SB - raspberry pi b+ hifiberry digi+ (BNC added, removed TOSlink, HDMI disable) piCorePlayer (play song from RAM) --> Use as controller/desk/reference: Touch (EDO / displayoff plugin, linear power, removed analog coupling caps, removed TOSlink & resistor, added spdif isolation transformer & bnc jack ) PSAudio TRIO C-100 (Cullen III, IcePower 300ASC's) - DL3 DAC (Cullen IV) - Energy Veritas w/Mundorf/Erse Xovers - 2x MartinLogan Descent i - Dectet - Cardas - BlackCat XV-Ultra sckramer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20311 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
toby10 wrote: > I'll bet if Stuart answers at all it will be only a small subset of the > submitted questions. Cherry picked questions to keep the answers > coinciding with MQA marketing. ;) I am really looking for the first analog capture with a good standard 24/96 device and its BAD standard filters. If this capture still sounds like the MQA DAC output and different to the stasndard PCM version you simply can forget about ALL the FUD :) Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
I'll bet if Stuart answers at all it will be only a small subset of the submitted questions. Cherry picked questions to keep the answers coinciding with MQA marketing. ;) toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
Wombat wrote: > I highly doubt you wil get new detailled answers. If he gives us 2 or > more decoded samples at lets say 192kHz first i guess answers to the > findings with these could make sense. I doubt this will happen... Yup. I likewise will be very surprised if Stuart comes back with anything concrete because I believe Meridian/MQA will want to maintain the aura of "revolutionary British technology". Getting too technical and I expect confirmation of "perceptually lossless" and discussion about bit-depth and down-to-earth comments would tarnish this perception. Yes, if we can have an example of the original 192kHz/DXD source and the decoded version (say aimed at a generic 192kHz DAC with typical linear phase impulse response), this will be very useful. Highly unlikely... Someone should dare Bob to do it though :-). Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
R1200CL wrote: > The end of speculations is over. Now you can ask Bob yourself. (Almost) > http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/your-chance-ask-bob-stuart-anything-about-mqa-27412/ I highly doubt you wil get new detailled answers. If he gives us 2 or more decoded samples at lets say 192kHz first i guess answers to the findings with these could make sense. I doubt this will happen... Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
The end of speculations is over. Now you can ask Bob yourself. (Almost) http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f8-general-forum/your-chance-ask-bob-stuart-anything-about-mqa-27412/ R1200CL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63832 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
darrenyeats wrote: > I'm arguing vinyl transcription reverses extreme compression, somehow, > so that would be consistent with my view. > > Is there some "intangible/meta-physical compression quality" than > remains the same - even when all three of DR number, look of waveform > and the sound all indicate the vinyl is less compressed? It smacks of > denial a bit. > Darren Dream on! arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] A Look at MQA...
darrenyeats wrote: > I'm arguing vinyl transcription reverses extreme compression, somehow, > so that would be consistent with my view. Any suggestion of what the mechanism would be? Pretty much all the non-linearities of the vinyl path would cause *more* compression - but as has been pointed out, the frequency response characteristics of vinyl makes DR readings artificially higher. Look of waveform and subjective listening evaluation tell us they sound *different*. That is all. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105070 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
