Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AudioDiffMaker ? Yes. Someone told me here about this piece of software. Seems to be the way to go. But I will eventually give my ears a try ;)... -- AlAz Yamaha DSP-Z7 / Jean-Marie REYNAUD Offrandes, Furioso, Évolution 2 & Grand Écran / Epson EH-TW2900 / YBA Intégré Alpha DT / SqueezeBox Classic AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
Do a comparison with the wav files. -- sxr71 sxr71's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18773 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
You're right. I'm going to use EAC - almost final point. Almost ? Yes, 'cause I promise I will try to hear differences some day, using an USB key with different WAVs into it (one from EAC, one from other tools like RipStation Micro, cdparanoïa...), plugged into my Yamaha DSP-Z7. Thanks everybody ! -- AlAz Yamaha DSP-Z7 / Jean-Marie REYNAUD Offrandes, Furioso, Évolution 2 & Grand Écran / Epson EH-TW2900 / YBA Intégré Alpha DT / SqueezeBox Classic AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz;498461 Wrote: > OK, I can confirm I give up. XCFA (cdparanoïa) and RubyRipper > (cdparanoïa plus specific algorith, extraction is made twice and results > are compared) gave me differents results (in the sense : FLAC audio MD5 > checksum), between them and between EAC/dbPowerAmp or RipStation Micro. > > I still think there are things unclear under all of this. So many > various results is not satisfying for mind... ...but likely none of this results in any audible differences, so why worry about it? It's about the music, after all. -- Ron Olsen Ron Olsen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9233 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz;498461 Wrote: > OK, I can confirm I give up. XCFA (cdparanoïa) and RubyRipper > (cdparanoïa plus specific algorith, extraction is made twice and results > are compared) gave me differents results (in the sense : FLAC audio MD5 > checksum), between them and between EAC/dbPowerAmp or RipStation Micro. > Does XCFA allow you to set an offset like RubyRipper does? I can't read French, so can't tell from the web page. Otherwise I would not expect the checksums to match. Musically, I don't consider the lack of offset to be particularly important (you might lose a few milliseconds on drives with large offsets), but you won't get matching checksums without the ability to set this. I don't see any way to set the offset in Max, either. -- Daverz Daverz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
OK, I can confirm I give up. XCFA (cdparanoïa) and RubyRipper (cdparanoïa plus specific algorith, extraction is made twice and results are compared) gave me differents results (in the sense : FLAC audio MD5 checksum), between them and between EAC/dbPowerAmp or RipStation Micro. I still think there are things unclear under all of this. So many various results is not satisfying for mind... -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
OK, I give up. This (Test 2 from http://www.mail-archive.com/ripp...@lists.slimdevices.com/msg10204.html) will definetely keep me far from RipStation - even it's ease of use and efficiency are great. -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
Phil Leigh;498426 Wrote: > These were your results from earlier post: > metaflac --show-md5sum RipStation.flac : > f048664893c438aacfb5e96124a7a4eb > metaflac --show-md5sum EAC.flac : 2043cee4d9a45f2cb741d454026b353f > metaflac --show-md5sum dbPowerAmp.flac : > 2043cee4d9a45f2cb741d454026b353f > So EAC and DBPoweramp are the same and Ripstation is different... OK, that I said was unclear, sorry. I talked about the results I quote below : * EAC gave me a log report with the following infos : CRC 4F6D5D8E \n 13) [CB937414] * dbPowerAmp says AccurateRip is OK (status "Accurate (13)"), gives me a checksum of FE527C89 So I was wondering about the meaning of these chechsums, obviously different - though MD5 FLAC audio checksums are identical... -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz - be sure to read all of this thread... http://www.mail-archive.com/ripp...@lists.slimdevices.com/msg10173.html -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz;498413 Wrote: > though not demagnetised ;)Haha :) -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Cyrus 8xp - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz;498413 Wrote: > Thanks for the link - and the quick test report. Indeed, the batch > approach of RipStation is an interesting feature - really. > > I learnt a thing about AccurateRip and its confidence level. Is there a > maximum level ? Another question concerns the checksum I reported > previously : EAC and dbPowerAmp gave obviously different ones. Why ? Is > it a significant point ? > > And be sure I ran my tests with perfectly clean CDs - though not > demagnetised ;) ! I used JS BACH, Magnificat BWV243, La Chapelle Royale > + Collegium Vocale, Philippe HERREWEGHE, Harmonia Mundi. It's a very > clean one, not a single sign viewable on the data side... These were your results from earlier: metaflac --show-md5sum RipStation.flac : f048664893c438aacfb5e96124a7a4eb metaflac --show-md5sum EAC.flac : 2043cee4d9a45f2cb741d454026b353f metaflac --show-md5sum dbPowerAmp.flac : 2043cee4d9a45f2cb741d454026b353f So EAC and DBPoweramp are the same and Ripstation is different... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
Thanks for the link - and the quick test report. Indeed, the batch approach of RipStation is an interesting feature - really. I learnt a thing about AccurateRip and its confidence level. Is there a maximum level ? Another question concerns the checksum I reported previously : EAC and dbPowerAmp gave obviously different ones. Why ? Is it a significant point ? And be sure I ran my tests with perfectly clean CDs - though not demagnetised ;) ! -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
ADM is here... http://www.libinst.com/Audio%20DiffMaker.htm I'm doing some tests on Ripstation now. Yes, Linn promote it (but that's because it's very easy to use) - but on their website they refer to EAC as the "gold standard"... OK - here's a quick test: A new CD ripped with EAC and Ripstation - AccurateRip reports confidence level 14, no EAC errors. md5 checksums are identical. AudioDiffMaker reports no differences at all in audio content. So for undamaged CD's RipStation seems fine - as Good as EAC. However, for damaged CD's... I could not recommend it. Without AccurateRip and intensive sector re-reads I just couldn't trust it. If I can find a damaged CD, I'll do another test. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
Phil Leigh;498388 Wrote:
> There is no "algorithm" at play here. It's really just a mechanical
> transfer of data from one medium to another. However, when things don't
> go well the results can be different. Because of the mechanical
> limitations of CD compared to (say) hard disk, reading is not always
> 100% predictable.
Concerning damaged discs, I perfectly understand the approach "trash
this sh** and buy another disc !"
Phil Leigh;498388 Wrote:
> ... or are you perhaps referring to the MD5 hashing algorithm? This is a
> fixed piece of logic. MD5 is a standard - you can't have different
> versions of it...
No, I'm perfectly aware of this point.
Phil Leigh;498388 Wrote:
> Ripstation is designed for a different use-case to the others. It is
> designed primarily for unattended, automated ripping of multiple discs.
> It does not feature the intensive sector multi-reread approach of the
> others, because that would break/slow to a crawl the automated workflow
> it is designed to support. So it will handle certain disc read errors
> differently. This is why you can get a different checksum. Ripstation
> will eventually write an error log and move on...
I can admit this - really. But, if I'm not wrong, RipStation software
are used by Linn in it's Majik DS. I was so thinking that the piece of
software was a little bit reliable...
Phil Leigh;498388 Wrote:
> At the risk of repeating myself ("Nurse - more pills, more pills") the
> chance of multiple rips using different discs, drives and rippers
> arriving at the same incorrect checksum is virtually zero. This cannot
> be argued from any logical or mathematical standpoint - honestly.
>
> This is why AccurateRip is helpful. The only issue with AR is if you
> get a different checksum on a well represented disc, you only know the
> rip is not 100% accurate - you don't know what that really means in
> terms of audible playback effects.
>
> If you really want to explore this further, compare your rips in
> AudioDiffMaker. IF there is a difference, this WILL find it...
>
> You'll need a means of running Windows apps though...
Ah ! I was precisely wondering what software could do a audio diff.
Thanks ! But it seems to be difficult to download (I found no direct
link). Today I will do two more rips, with cdparanoia & RubyRibber. I
hope I will found the same FLAC MD5 as with EAC/dbPowerAmp : it will be
far more comfortable ;) !
--
AlAz
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
maggior;498348 Wrote: > Between this thread and your tagging thread, I think you have a lot of > info to process. It might be helpful to do some casual reading on the > internet about these topics and let yourself absorb the info. Nobody > grasps all aspects of this stuff in a single day! Oh, I'm *now* pretty sure of this ;) ! Anyway, that was predictable : if THE RIGHT WAY had existed, I would have been easy to find clear information about it... maggior;498348 Wrote: > And remember...ultimately it's about enjoying the music, and having some > fun! Yes, at last ! But it seems one have to handle and master many refinements before enjoying music... One more step, one last step, and I hope I could let you breathe ;) -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz;498311 Wrote:
> You know, I'm pleased when I understand things. Oh, I cannot understand
> everything, but I really think I can understand many things on this
> peculiar subject. It's not pride, nor ego. Just satisfaction to say for
> myself "OK, that's clear".
>
> My present thoughts are that perhaps we're facing an alorithmic
> difference. One can think EAC and dbPowerAmp use a pretty close algo,
> and RipStation use a quite different one. It COULD explains that two
> solutions come up with the same MD5... I'll spend a little time tomorrow
> with some other rippers, like cdparanoia and RubyRipper, to see what
> happens...
>
> At this point, with this query in mind, a complementary thought arise,
> that concerns AccurateRip : I read on this forum later
> (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=487051&postcount=16)
> someone saying "AccurateRip doesn't necessarily improve quality, but it
> does improve confidence". It COULD be the point - I mean *if* I'm right
> !
>
> I have no Mac here, but I can play with an old G4 at work, I only have
> PC, thus I can only use EAC and dbPowerAmp : I wonder if those who
> claims AccurateRip "ensures truth", to say it quickly and with
> overstatement, do only rely on software with very similar algorithms.
> It's not a bad thing, it's even far from it, but if this is right, it
> only ensures that a rip worked the right way. Not that it is "THE" rip
> (I'm again not sure the concept of '"THE" rip' have a sense). What a
> pity that both EAC and dbPowerAmp are closed source, one could
> verify...
>
> Don't cry ! I'm not irredeemable. If I'm wrong I'll apologize. I like
> to spend a little time sneaking here and there. And, my mind made, I
> choose my way. I don't like to follow blindly other's ways ;). No
> offense, I take care of each and every advice.
>
> Anyway, thanks for being so patient with me. It seems that I will cause
> Phil Leigh to have nervous breakdown, sooner or later :)
>
> PS : did somebody try to burn a "file", rip it, and compare the rip
> with the original ? Eeerk, the burning process comes in the dance... So
> it would probably even more complicated to get things clear...
It's OK - I'm on medication...
:-)
There is no "algorithm" at play here. It's really just a mechanical
transfer of data from one medium to another. However, when things don't
go well the results can be different. Because of the mechanical
limitations of CD compared to (say) hard disk, reading is not always
100% predictable.
... or are you perhaps referring to the MD5 hashing algorithm? This is
a fixed piece of logic. MD5 is a standard - you can't have different
versions of it...
Ripstation is designed for a different use-case to the others. It is
designed primarily for unattended, automated ripping of multiple discs.
It does not feature the intensive sector multi-reread approach of the
others, because that would break/slow to a crawl the automated workflow
it is designed to support. So it will handle certain disc read errors
differently. This is why you can get a different checksum. Ripstation
will eventually write an error log and move on...
At the risk of repeating myself ("Nurse - more pills, more pills") the
chance of multiple rips using different discs, drives and rippers
arriving at the same incorrect checksum is virtually zero. This cannot
be argued from any logical or mathematical standpoint - honestly.
This is why AccurateRip is helpful. The only issue with AR is if you
get a different checksum on a well represented disc, you only know the
rip is not 100% accurate - you don't know what that really means in
terms of audible playback effects.
If you really want to explore this further, compare your rips in
AudioDiffMaker. IF there is a difference, this WILL find it...
You'll need a means of running Windows apps though...
--
Phil Leigh
You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W -
MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio
Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz;498311 Wrote: > Don't cry ! I'm not irredeemable. If I'm wrong I'll apologize. I like to > spend a little time sneaking here and there. And, my mind made, I choose > my way. I don't like to follow blindly other's ways ;). No offense, I > take care of each and every advice. > > Anyway, thanks for being so patient with me. It seems that I will cause > Phil Leigh to have nervous breakdown, sooner or later :) > That's fine. Understanding "why" is always good if you can, rather than blindly following what is suggested. This way you can make intelligent choices on your own in the future. Between this thread and your tagging thread, I think you have a lot of info to process. It might be helpful to do some casual reading on the internet about these topics and let yourself absorb the info. Nobody grasps all aspects of this stuff in a single day! And remember...ultimately it's about enjoying the music, and having some fun! Cheers! -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 4 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeCenter 7.3.3, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 30,015 songs, 2,448 albums, 451 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
Phil Leigh;498236 Wrote: > [...] 3) The probability of two solutions both coming up with the same > WRONG MD5 is so close to zero it is hard to measure > Conclusion: stop messing around with Ripstation. > Enjoy your music. You know, I'm pleased when I understand things. Oh, I cannot understand everything, but I really think I can understand many things on this peculiar subject. It's not pride, nor ego. Just satisfaction to say for myself "OK, that's clear". My present thoughts are that we're facing an alorithmic difference. One can think EAC and dbPowerAmp use a pretty close, and RipStation use a quite different one. I'll spend a little time tomorrow with some other rippers, like cdparanoia (whatever frontend abcde) or RubyRipper. A complementary thought concerns AccurateRip : I read on this forum later (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=487051&postcount=16) someone saying "AccurateRip doesn't necessarily improve quality, but it does improve confidence". And I think it's likely to be the point. I have no Mac here, but I can play with an old G4 at work, I only have PC, thus I can only use EAC and dbPowerAmp : I wonder if those who claims AccurateRip "ensures truth", to say it quickly and with overstatement, do only rely on software with very similar algorithms. It's not a bad thing, it's even far from it, but if this is right, it only ensures that a rip worked the right way. Not that it is "THE" rip. What a pity that both EAC and dbPowerAmp are closed source, one could verify... Don't cry ! I'm not irredeemable. If I'm wrong I'll apologize. I like to spend a little time sneaking here and there. And, my mind made, I choose my way. I don't like to follow blindly other's ways ;). No offense, I take care of each and every advice. Anyway, thanks for being so patient with me. It seems that I will cause Phil Leigh to have nervous breakdown, sooner or later :) -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
As everyone says, the tried & tested apps mentioned are the way to go. It's all about your personal preference in terms of look & feel, options, etc. but the end result is going to be great from any of those apps (correctly configured, of course...) I've used EAC successfully in Windoze for quite a while, and these days I use RubyRipper with Ubuntu. -- gungrog gungrog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17784 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
Phil Leigh;498236 Wrote: > OK lets recap: > > 1) Pretty much everyone on these forums agrees that EAC and DBPoweramp > have proven themselves over the last 5 years to be good solutions > > Conclusion: stop messing around with Ripstation. > Enjoy your music. On these forums and others, including hydrogenaudio.org. -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 4 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeCenter 7.3.3, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 30,015 songs, 2,448 albums, 451 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz;498232 Wrote: > Don't know if RipStation can configure offset, I will search. > > I didn't modify default settings for FLAC conversion in any software, > but I thought the audio fingerprint was compression-independant (since, > as you said, whatever compression level chosen, data will be decoded to > the same audio "signal"). Yes, you are correct - the FLAC fingerprint is generated from the uncompressed data - forgot about that. -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 4 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeCenter 7.3.3, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 30,015 songs, 2,448 albums, 451 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz;498232 Wrote: > Don't know if RipStation can configure offset, I will search. > > I didn't modify default settings for FLAC conversion in any software, > but I thought the audio fingerprint was compression-independant (since, > as you said, whatever compression level chosen, data will be decoded to > the same audio "signal"). OK lets recap: 1) Pretty much everyone on these forums agrees that EAC and DBPoweramp have proven themselves over the last 5 years to be good solutions 2) Your test showed that EAC and DBPoweramp ripped with the same MD5 checksum but Ripstation didn't 3) The probability of two solutions both coming up with the same WRONG MD5 is so close to zero it is hard to measure Conclusion: stop messing around with Ripstation. Enjoy your music. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
maggior;498229 Wrote: > I know that both EAC and dbPowerAmp will configure the offset of the > drive. Does ripstation have that capability? If not, that may be the > issue. > > How did you make the FLACs? If the ripping tool made the flacs, > perhaps it has to do with options passed. Different compression levels > will generate different files (which will decode to the same > uncompressed data being lossless). Don't know if RipStation can configure offset, I will search. I didn't modify default settings for FLAC conversion in any software, but I thought the audio fingerprint was compression-independant (since, as you said, whatever compression level chosen, data will be decoded to the same audio "signal"). -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
I know that both EAC and dbPowerAmp will configure the offset of the drive. Does ripstation have that capability? If not, that may be the issue. -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 4 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeCenter 7.3.3, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 30,015 songs, 2,448 albums, 451 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
metaflac --show-md5sum RipStation.flac : f048664893c438aacfb5e96124a7a4eb metaflac --show-md5sum EAC.flac : 2043cee4d9a45f2cb741d454026b353f metaflac --show-md5sum dbPowerAmp.flac : 2043cee4d9a45f2cb741d454026b353f So EAC & dbPowerAmp extracted the same audio content, right ? Does that mean RipStation did not ? Is it wrong ? -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
Just a note about cdparanoia: I've seen it produce wave files with different md5sums when the rip is not "clean" (i.e. cdparanoia had to do some correction, even just jitter correction). This is why RubyRipper and Max rip at least twice and compare. Whether this mismatch is -audible- is another issue, as is whether these comparison algorithms are sufficient to assure "good" audio data. -- Daverz Daverz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
Here is what I found about WAV, for further help : http://wiki.etree.org/index.php?page=FlacFingerprint > Why whole-file wav md5s can be a hindrance: wav files aren't perfectly > standardized. Different applications can create different wav files with > the same music data. Further, flac doesn't encode everything in the > headers of the wav file, only what is necessary. So the file sets that > are created using a wav > flac > wav conversion have a good chance of > not having identical md5s. -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
garym;498166 Wrote: > Keep in mind that to compre checksum, CRC, etc. you must compare audio > CRC only [...] See this thread re using Audio CRC only. > http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=19704 OK. Thanks for the info. I will sleep less stupid, tonight... maggior;498168 Wrote: > [...] The true comparison would be to look at the fingerprint of the > FLAC file generated from a rip in 2 different rippers. The fingerprint > is an md5 of the audio data excluding the tag data. This is important > because it allows you to update the tags, yet the fingerprint remains > the same. I'll try to extract this information from my 3 FLACs from 3 rippers. maggior;498168 Wrote: > It also occurs to me that some ripping software handle CD reader offsets > and others don't. EAC and dpPowerAmp do, but you have to configure it. > I don't know about the ripstation. To do a valid comparison between all > 3 rippers, they have to be configured for the same offset. I configured EAC and dbPowerAmp. -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz;498164 Wrote: > What conclusion ? Why the WAV are different ? There are no metadata in > WAV files... Wave files have a header that describes the data contained in the file, such as if it is mono/stereo, sampling rate, sample size, etc. It doesn't contain tag information. I believe that there is some flexability in the wave header, which would explain why different wave files from different software of the same CD track may be different. The true comparison would be to look at the fingerprint of the FLAC file generated from a rip in 2 different rippers. The fingerprint is an md5 of the audio data excluding the tag data. This is important because it allows you to update the tags, yet the fingerprint remains the same. -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 4 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeCenter 7.3.3, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 30,015 songs, 2,448 albums, 451 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz;498164 Wrote: > I've just tust try to rip a disc I ripped yesterday with EAC. This time, > I used RipStation Micro. The result supried me quite a lot. EAC gave me > a 14,6 MB FLAC file, RipStation gave me a 15,4 MB FLAC file !!! > > So I decided to rip to FLAC (I think I can remember I have read that > you can have different compression level in FLAC, preserving exactly the > same file, but at a different CPU cost). > > Surprise ! > > * EAC : gives me a track quality of 100%, CRC 4F6D5D8E \n 13) > [CB937414] in report log and a MD5sum of > 0edc7c88d96f55f5cefe9e50ec4ca46f > Size is 31893164 > > * RipStation Micro gives me a MD5sum of > c7f4823ab3c75d091bb22feb7b49d290 > Size is 31893164 > > * dbPowerAmp says AccurateRip is OK (status "Accurate (13)"), gives me > a checksum of FE527C89 > Size is 31895456 > > What conclusion ? Why the WAV are different ? There are no metadata in > WAV files... Keep in mind that to compre checksum, CRC, etc. you must compare audio CRC only. Every ripper may use different padding within the tags, add different tags (even in a WAV file), etc. So file sizes could be different. So your comparison above tells you nothing. See this thread re using Audio CRC only. http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/showthread.php?t=19704 -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
I've just tust try to rip a disc I ripped yesterday with EAC. This time, I used RipStation Micro. The result supried me quite a lot. EAC gave me a 14,6 MB FLAC file, RipStation gave me a 15,4 MB FLAC file !!! So I decided to rip to FLAC (I think I can remember I have read that you can have different compression level in FLAC, preserving exactly the same file, but at a different CPU cost). Surprise ! * EAC : gives me a track quality of 100%, CRC 4F6D5D8E \n 13) [CB937414] in report log and a MD5sum of 0edc7c88d96f55f5cefe9e50ec4ca46f Size is 31893164 * RipStation Micro gives me a MD5sum of c7f4823ab3c75d091bb22feb7b49d290 Size is 31893164 * dbPowerAmp says AccurateRip is OK (status "Accurate (13)"), gives me a checksum of FE527C89 Size is 31895456 What conclusion ? Why the WAV are different ? There are no metadata in WAV files... -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
You might want to do some reading on www.hydrogenaudio.org. They are sticklers for keeping discussions factual and requiring people to back up any sound quality claims with facts. You will read how countless people have done experiments as you suggest - ripping a disc with different software or different CD readers and digitally comparing the results to determine accuracty and repeatability. There you will find plenty of discussion regarding the different popular rippers and their pluses and minuses. I used EAC for a long time. I've since converted to dbPowerAmp with the power pack. I find dbPA works as well as EAC and it saves me time. And like you, my time is valuable to me. Regarding ripping difficult discs - getting a clean copy is certainly a good suggestion. Physically cleaning the disc with mild abrasives and polishing agents (i.e. toothpaste and Brasso) also help quite a bit. It's like cleaning up recordings of vinyl rips - it's better to invest effort in cleaning the physical lp than trying to deal with removing the noise digitally. -- maggior Rich - Setup: 2 SB3s, 4 Booms, 1 duet, 1 receiver. SuSE 11.0 Server running SqueezeCenter 7.3.3, MusicIP, and SqueezeSlave. Current library stats: 30,015 songs, 2,448 albums, 451 artists. http://www.last.fm/user/maggior maggior's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9080 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
Didn't know about Beltism. Read some pages about... Yes, not far at all, indeed. Especially if you follow the links I gave in my first post. -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
we are not far from Beltism here... :D -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Cyrus 8xp - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
Arf. I heard a difference. But I cannot swear you can't hear a difference when you are trying to hear some. May be it was auto-suggestion... Cannot say. It was approximatively 10 years ago... -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
Is it only me that is amazed that every mind-bending discovery - that goes beyond the current known boundaries of physics - always produces a BETTER sound... I didn't know that polycarbonate aluminium or gold were known for their magnetic qualities... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
aubuti;498061 Wrote: > Okay, I'll bite: vinyl, CDs, or HDDs? HDD of course. The point is to put a really big speaker for hours just above a HDD, and you'll see, it will sound better ;) No, it was a CD demagnetiser. Sound was a little bit crisp and clear. Of course, some auditors were in admiration :-/... No way for me. Never understood the effect, though. CD use light. Light is an electromagnetic phenomena, but on a distance like that... -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
garym;498055 Wrote: > If you google around enough on this, you will find that knowledgeable > people tend to recommend overwhelmingly either EAC or dbPowerAmp > software for ripping. I use dbpoweramp myself. So figure out a good > naming/organization scheme (your other thread), start ripping, make sure > your tags are exactly what you want (also consider mp3tag for this as > well...not just mp3 files by the way) and enjoy the music! I googlED a lot... With my other thread, I try to figure out how to rip efficiently. Seems that dbPowerAmp is really useful, as it can do thing efficiently. Honestly, either if I'm a GNU/Linux user, I just want things to be done well and quick, even if I must pay for this. My spare time is worth it... -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz;498059 Wrote: > Anyway, I heard once the effect of a demagnitizer for discs. The effect > was real - small, but real. Okay, I'll bite: vinyl, CDs, or HDDs? -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
IMHO, those guys are victims of self-suggestion. They can not decently judge them stupid to spend that money in such things... So they claim they hear the difference. It's also a way to be above the average people... Perhaps it this illness that hit this guy, don't know... Anyway, I heard once the effect of a demagnitizer for discs. The effect was real - small, but real. -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
If you google around enough on this, you will find that knowledgeable people tend to recommend overwhelmingly either EAC or dbPowerAmp software for ripping. I use dbpoweramp myself. So figure out a good naming/organization scheme (your other thread), start ripping, make sure your tags are exactly what you want (also consider mp3tag for this as well...not just mp3 files by the way) and enjoy the music! -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz;498051 Wrote: > And you're right. But I'm wondering why a guy claims he hears > differences between ripping software. Either he's crazy, or he has a > strange combination brain/ears - or there's something else. I'll try to > figure out. I vote for the crazy option. and as you said,you can find lots of bad information on the web. Keep in mind that there are "audiophiles" that think they can hear the difference created by a 1 meter patch cord that costs $8,000! I vote crazy on that one too. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
garym;498045 Wrote: > I'm not sure I understand your point. But 2+2=4, and this is true > regardless of your perception. And you're right. But I'm wondering why a guy claims he hears differences between ripping software. Either he's crazy, or he has a strange combination brain/ears - or there's something else. I'll try to figure out. -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
I'm not sure I understand your point. But 2+2=4, and this is true regardless of your perception. -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
No. I meant : rip with EAC/dbPowerAmp (useless if already done), re-rip with another software (like RipStation for example). And just hear. Obviously, if checksums are equals (RipStation doesn't seem to handle AccurateRip, so MD5 or SHAxxx must be used), same sound is to be expected. I cannot imagine the conclusion could be different. Anyway, I don't trust figures when dealing with perception. Do you really think that the amplifier, the CD player, the speakers with the best technical datas are really the best ? I'm pretty sure you're not. Figures are too reductive... -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz;498022 Wrote: > If some of you agree to do the same thing... thousands of people have done the same thing. and we call it AccurateRip and numerous scientific listening tests. So you should sleep just fine. Google is your friend -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
Wow, trolling subject indeed... That convinced me to take the time to give a try. Sooner or later, I will spend the time to rip the same CD with the same hardware and different software. I will compare checksums (AccurateRIP and others, like SHA1). And I will "try the sound" on my system. It definitely seems to be the only way. Honestly, I hope I will not hear any difference - this would help me sleep better ;) ! If some of you agree to do the same thing... -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
garym;498000 Wrote: > We're not talking about "opinions" here with AccurateRip. We're talking > about comparing whether the zeros and ones of digital data are identical > across lots of different rips. The odds of even one or two other users > getting the identical data from their rips as I get from mine when we > are all wrong is astronomically low. If you're worried about this > extremely low probability, you should abandon your ripping process and > run for the bomb shelters immediately, as the odds of a nuclear attack > in the next 5 minutes is much greater! Rotfl... AlAz - use DBPoweramp or EAC or CD paranoia to do your rips and be very happy. Please let's not have a discussion about absolute truth vs statistical truth on this forum or else I'll have to remind everyone that they are in fact the same thing. Probably. :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz;497997 Wrote: > I admit it. I said it. But it's only a matter of probability. It's not > THE TRUTH, it is statistically the truth. And moreover, it's not > necessarirly one's truth ;) ! I mean, if someone prefers a sound that > everyone else doesn't like, who am I to tell him he's wrong ? > > That's the difficulty with Internet. You can find many things, but > unless you haven't gather enough experience, you have to count opinions > and try to get the mean... A divergent opinion may be very close to > reality, as it can be very far... We're not talking about "opinions" here with AccurateRip. We're talking about comparing whether the zeros and ones of digital data are identical across lots of different rips. The odds of even one or two other users getting the identical data from their rips as I get from mine when we are all wrong is astronomically high. If you're worried about this extremely low probability, you should abandon your ripping process and run for the bomb shelters immediately, as the odds of a nuclear attack in the next 5 minutes is much greater! -- garym garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
Phil Leigh;497986 Wrote: > If many people, using different software, drives and discs (all are > important) achieve the same checksum, you have to say that the science > of statistics is on their side. I admit it. I said it. But it's only a matter of probability. It's not THE TRUTH, it is statistically the truth. And moreover, it's not necessarirly one's truth ;) ! I mean, if someone prefers a sound that everyone else doesn't like, who am I to tell him he's wrong ? That's the difficulty with Internet. You can find many things, but unless you haven't gather enough experience, you have to count opinions and try to get the mean... A divergent opinion may be very close to reality, as it can be very far... -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
ALAz wrote: > AccurateRip ensure you that (many) other people obtained the same result > when ripping the same disc. So it does not seem obvious to me that this > means that que file obtained is the *right* file (if the expression "the > right file" has a sense). Think through this a minute. You advise AccurateRip may be in error even though multiple people around the world get identical ripping results. The typical 3 minute song in WAV format contains about 30 million bytes of data. If people all over the world are getting identical checksums from different CDs on a very wide variety of computers, CD drives and software, the odds of those all being identically "wrong" are right up there with having a million monkeys at typewriters turning out the front page of today's New York Times. The only time I ever have trouble with a CD rip is when it has been visibly and significantly damaged. In that case, paranoia about the ripper software is misplaced. The solution is to buy a good copy of the CD. I do most of my ripping on a Linux machine using Sound Juicer as the front end. I has worked very nicely for me for years. -- mlsstl mlsstl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
Phil Leigh;497986 Wrote: > > It is most unlikely/highly improbable that many people would achieve > the same INCORRECT checksum. If we consider that there are only 100 different errors possible, then the probability that 5 people can get the same error is 0,0001% (1 per million), if I'm not mistaken. I will let you calculate the same probability if there can be 1,000,000 possible errors. ;) -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Cyrus 8xp - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
AlAz;497981 Wrote: > I agree : if two rippers give two files with same checksum, then these > files are the same with a very high probability (never forget that hash > functions are mathematically many-to-one, and that collisions do > exist). > > Anyway, the posts I mentioned never said the file were the same, just > that size were equals - this is different and I regret the guy did not > hash his results, just to be sure. > > Because I will be glad to blame him with you if he pretends hearing > differences between (most likely) identical files, but with different > files I can see no reason why he could not hear differences... > > That is why I ask this question : did anybody tested several rippers > with the same "system chain" (disc reader, disc, computer...) And don't > tell me that AccurateRip is the Absolute Guardian of Truth. If I'm not > wrong, AccurateRip ensure you that (many) other people obtained the same > result when ripping the same disc. So it does not seem obvious to me > that this means that que file obtained is the *right* file (if the > expression "the right file" has a sense). I agree that it is most likely > the fact, nevertheless. As with many things in life, size is not the most important factor. Without checksums on identically-sized files, his conclusions are not helpful. You can't dismiss AccurateRip just like that. If many people, using different software, drives and discs (all are important) achieve the same checksum, you have to say that the science of statistics is on their side. It is most unlikely/highly improbable that many people would achieve the same INCORRECT checksum. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
I agree : if two rippers give two files with same checksum, then these files are the same with a very high probability (never forget that hash functions are mathematically many-to-one, and that collisions do exist). Anyway, the posts I mentioned never said the file were the same, just that size were equals - this is different and I regret the guy did not hash his results, just to be sure. Because I will be glad to blame him with you if he pretends hearing differences between (most likely) identical files, but with different files I can see no reason why he could not hear differences... That is why I ask this question : did anybody tested several rippers with the same "system chain" (disc reader, disc, computer...) And don't tell me that AccurateRip is the Absolute Guardian of Truth. If I'm not wrong, AccurateRip ensure you that (many) other people obtained the same result when ripping the same disc. So it does not seem obvious to me that this means that que file obtained is the *right* file (if the expression "the right file" has a sense). I agree that it is most likely the fact, nevertheless. -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
If two rippers produce two files with the same checksum, the files are identical. That really is all that needs to be said on this subject...? EAC and DBPoweramp and CDParanoia all rip accurately if setup correctly and used with undamaged discs. The rips do not sound any different...because they are identical. It's a simple matter to prove this and it has been done many, many times. When Audiophiles collide with computers, the result is always confusion or denial. If two computer files have the same content, there is NO WAY they can sound different. If this were not true, computers simply would not work. Audiophiles often fail to grasp this simple, unavoidable truth. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Audiophile ripping software
Hello. I'm about to rip my whole collection of CD (more than 1000 units, I don't know exactly how many discs I own...) I just want to do it once, and do it right. It will be enough hard that way... So I started investigating. I find these blogs, in French : * http://blog.apiguide.net/#podium * http://blog.apiguide.net/archive027.htm * http://blog.apiguide.net/archive023.htm * http://laudiophile.blog.free.fr/index.php?q=logiciel This guy is at least very demanding ! I will try to translate, for those who can't read French : he tested several rippers and found recently that RipStation Micro is the software he prefers. Very surprising are his conclusions in the third link I gave above : EAC and AIMP rip the same piece of music and have produced file of the same size, but these files sounds differently (obviously, if checksums had been calculated, they should have been different !) The tests are exceptionnaly rigorous, as the guy only relies on his own feelings. By the way, I think it is the best approach for these sort of subjects - for him ! You can easily bet another pair of ears would conclude in a different way... Anyway, this thread is an attempt to draw a tendency. I knowx EAC for years now, it is one of the recommended software to rip CD, along with dbPowerAmp, or cdparanoia for GNU/Linux users like me. Could you tell me your thinking on this subject ? Thanks in advance. Best regards, Al -- AlAz AlAz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=26092 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72916 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
