Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
johann wrote: > But I think one is missing the point if it just has to do with getting > the bass in control. Diffusing the first reflexion is at least as IMO. Controlling the first reflections are important. They are also a lot easier to do than controlling the below 200hz bass. The first thing to do is to move the speakers away from the walls, get them off the floor, etc. (unless you have Quads or Maggies). Carpet, sofas, and other stuff that the wife wants anyway help a lot with the first reflections. And while skyscape diffusers work great, they have lousey WAF for most. An alternative that works well and has a better WAF is a bookcase/bookshelf with books of varying sizes, not lined up. It can act as a decent approximation of a QRD with much better WAF. Ethan also has plans for his bass traps on his personal site, which is handy for folks who are good with tools and can locate the high density insulation locally. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
Thanks Pat. In the meantime I googled and had a look at their web site. I agree that acoustic treaments can do wonders for the sound and gives very good bang for the buck. But I think one is missing the point if it just has to do with getting the bass in control. Diffusing the first reflexion is at least as IMO. The RealTraps web site said that shipping to Europe was not so expensive but with 6 MiniTraps to Denmark at $457.07, it's a bit steep I think. -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
johann;214345 Wrote: > > what are RealTraps? > Acoustic treatment panels that actually work. http://www.realtraps.com/ Designed and sold buy a musician and recording engineer. Many "acoustic treatments" do noting that is important. What you need is bass control, and that requires big things since bass notes are big. The E string on a bass guitar (or string bass) is about 41 hz, so the wavelength is about 20 feet long. A piece of foam an inch thick is not going to do anything for it. See the Stereophile site for references. RealTraps actually look like something your SO would allow in the house, altho they are still fairly imposing. I believe, IMHO, YMMV, etc. that acoustic treatment is one of the biggest bang for the buck changes you can make to a system. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
With earthed connections, electric installation in order and all power cables properly phased*, could you still get ground loops? * In many European countries (and maybe others) the power plug that goes into the wall socket can be turned 180 degrees so hot pin and ground are reversed. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuko . -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
NewBuyer;214392 Wrote: > Surprised nobody yet has mentioned, that using a balanced connection can > eliminate the audibility of a ground loop between components. good point -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
Surprised nobody yet has mentioned, that using a balanced connection can eliminate the audibility of a ground loop between components. Remember that a ground loop doesn't always contribute a 50/60Hz hum, but can also produce the effect that some describe as a "veil" over the sound, i.e. limiting of the frequency extremes and reduction of overall sound clarity and micro detail. Incidentally, the same effect can occur from external EM field noise picked up by interconnects, even over distances as short as approx. 0.5m in a noisy environment - but of course even more so with longer distances and greater resulting exposures. This makes the noise-rejecting ability of balanced connections equally, but separately, relevant. -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
Thanks all. I have the cables since before and the pre amp accepts XLR. However, the manufacturer (Audionet) recommends using RCA since the design of their amp(s) is not balanced and it sounds better with RCA unless the cables are somewhere around 10 m or longer. I use 1 m cables from TP to pre. Then when listening, using RCA sounded better to me. Not knowing wheter this was my mind playing me or that it really sounded better, at least with Sean's explanation I can get some piece of mind knowing that what I hear might actually be real. :) And no I did not double blind test it. ;) pfarrel, what are RealTraps? Cheers, /Johan -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
johann;214316 Wrote: > assuming the cable runs are one or max two meters? Balanced cables can run hundreds of feet. You simply can't run unbalanced cabling that far. But for a meter or two, the noise rejection is much less important. If your amp accepts balanced from your Transporter, by all means use it. Save the grand from not using Audiophile cables and spend it on music or RealTraps or taking your SO out to dinner. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
Balanced cabling may have an advantage over long distances (several meters) or in extremely noisy environments. Over short distances there is really no advantage over RCA AFAICT. Transporter's RCA outputs are driven by an active balun circuit, which is fed by the exact same signal that goes directly out of the XLR. So it takes advantage of the balanced filter/DAC stages upstream from there. In terms of objective metrics (SNR, THD etc) there is no appreciable difference between Transporter's outputs, for short cables. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
My understanding is that the AKM DAC is balanced and that there is an op amp for each channel in transporter for the XLR connections. With RCA there would be only 1 op amp. I have no idea if this would make a difference. But please correct me if I am misinformed -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
johann;214272 Wrote: > I hear a lot of memebers here saying the Transporter sounds better using > the balanced xlr outputs than using single ended RCA output. > > Is there a technical reason for that except the balance XLR cables > being less sensitive for external noise? > > > Cheers, > /Johan I'd really love to hear Sean's thoughts on RCA vs. XLR.. he put them on there, there must have been a good engineering reason. :-) -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
Same for the Transporter. The balanced outputs 3V compared to standard 2V for unbalanced. -- ezkcdude There are 10 kind of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who don't. SHINYMETAL '*Site*' (http://www.ezdiyaudio.com)| '*RSS*' (http://www2.kumc.edu/students/ezamir/rss/ezdiyaudio.xml) |'*Forum*' (http://ezdiyaudio.informe.com) ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
Thanks. That is general but what is the case for Transporter, assuming the cable runs are one or max two meters? -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
ezkcdude wrote: > Balanced (professional) connections generally have two main advantage > to RCA (consumer): 1) lower noise; 2) higher levels (i.e. greater > dynamic range, SNR, etc). You left out positive click connection and release. With the downsides that: 1) the cables cost more than cheap RCA cables (altho only $40 or so per cable, not the thousands that audiophiles spend) and 2) only a small percentage of audiophile gear and a tiny percentage of consumer gear has the needed XLR connectors. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
johann;214272 Wrote: > I hear a lot of memebers here saying the Transporter sounds better using > the balanced xlr outputs than using single ended RCA output. > > Is there a technical reason for that except the balance XLR cables > being less sensitive for external noise? > > > Cheers, > /Johan Balanced (professional) connections generally have two main advantage to RCA (consumer): 1) lower noise; 2) higher levels (i.e. greater dynamic range, SNR, etc). -- ezkcdude There are 10 kind of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who don't. SHINYMETAL '*Site*' (http://www.ezdiyaudio.com)| '*RSS*' (http://www2.kumc.edu/students/ezamir/rss/ezdiyaudio.xml) |'*Forum*' (http://ezdiyaudio.informe.com) ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Balanced vs Single ended output from Transporter
I hear a lot of memebers here saying the Transporter sounds better using the balanced xlr outputs than using single ended RCA output. Is there a technical reason for that except the balance XLR cables being less sensitive for external noise? Cheers, /Johan -- johann johann's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36774 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
