Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > Indeed. When viewed on Tapatalk it has a sub heading that says > "11bytes". That must be using special MQA compression then... As long as it is lossless... "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Indeed. When viewed on Tapatalk it has a sub heading that says "11bytes". That must be using special MQA compression then. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > I don't believe this image fits into 11 bytes. Or is that just the > filename...? :) 11.4KB, not B. LMS on a dedicated server (FitPC3) Transporter (Ethernet) - main listening, Onkyo receiver, Paradigm speakers Touch (WiFi) - home theater 5.1, Sony receiver, Energy speakers Boom 1 (WiFi) - work-space Boom 2 (WiFi) - various (deck, garage, etc.) Radio (WiFi) - home office Control - Squeeze Control (Android mobile), 2 Controllers (seldom used), Squeeze Remote (on Surface Pro 4) Touch x 1 - spare UE Radio x 1 - spare Boom x 1 - spare Controller x 1 - Spare Duet Receiver (backup) RonM's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17029 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Julf wrote: > Some measurements to illustrate my point: > > 21514 Wow i see what you mean. Good the is higher humidity is supposed to increase bass response edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Here's one example of a mesurment http://archimago.blogspot.se/2016/11/measurements-crystal-cable.html And this is actually a good result , best result the super expensive cable perform like any other correctly designed cable. Small measurable variations ,but way below any audiability treshold . Worse case the design is exotic enough to actually perform worse than the free junk cables . No Indonesien use them either , the build quality is usually not good enough. Much of the subjektive "reviews" ( yes a sighted test is not an actuall cable test ) also claims properties a cable simply can not have if you want to affect soundstage and dynamics you need DSP . Works case a cable can have rubbish or nonexistent shielding ( kimber ) then it can maybe pick up noise and hum if it's to close to noise sources . And if it's long enough and have really hig capacitance it migth be a first order lowpass filter if then intrudes <20kHz it's a really bad design. Personaly i would go to blue jean cable for my purchases . You also have canare , mogami et all buy professional cable in bulk and terminate yourself . It's also the very short lengths used in home audio that makes even the shoddiest cable " good enough ". Another concern of mine is the audiophile "design process " if you can call it that leads to really bad products , that actually do respond to cables in unforeseen ways , bad impedance mismatch or instability, such is the status of the cargo cult engineering going on that problems solved decades ago can resurface . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Julf wrote: > I think there has been a fair bit of that too. Just see the postings > from Archimago. Yes, I've read some of those, they are very interesting. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Julf wrote: > Some measurements to illustrate my point: > > 21514 I don't believe this image fits into 11 bytes. Or is that just the filename...? :) drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
edwardthern wrote: > Oops sorry about that!😁 Some measurements to illustrate my point: 21514 +---+ |Filename: rain-day.png | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=21514| +---+ "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Julf wrote: > That is a cheap shot at someone living in Amsterdam! Oops sorry about that!😁 edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > Doing measurements maybe. But I don't want to do measurements. I want > the smart sceptics who have already done the measurements to share their > conclusions about what they decided to buy and let us try it for > ourselves. I think there has been a fair bit of that too. Just see the postings from Archimago. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Julf wrote: > I think there has been a fair bit of attempts at pointing out how to do > measurements using basic, affordable gear, as well as how to do > controlled listening tests. OK you win the contrarian award. Let test it. The sky is blue! edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Doing measurements maybe. But I don't want to do measurements. I want the smart sceptics who have already done the measurements to share their conclusions about what they decided to buy and let us try it for ourselves. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > The sceptics, like all of us, are quick to talk down things but rarely > offer suggestions as to how to do it instead. (At least I've not seen > much of that here.) I think there has been a fair bit of attempts at pointing out how to do measurements using basic, affordable gear, as well as how to do controlled listening tests. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
edwardthern wrote: > But having measurable proof, as sceptics require is not the end all be > all. Sometimes you can have a measurable difference but no real > perceptible audible difference and vise versa. It is quite normal to have measurable differences that have no audible effect. It is also very common for people to think they hear differences when there are no measurable differences. The rational and scientific reaction is to verify if the people really can hear a difference, and there is a fairly simple and straightforward method for that - controlled, double-blind listening. > At the end of the day it's all subjective. No, it isn't. Preferences are subjective, but "can you tell if system X is the same as system A or system B?" is not. > Those who know, know that everything and anything can and does make a > difference Key word difference, not necessarily better. No, it doesn't. Not if the difference has to actually be audible. > And surely it's obvious the sceptics bully people on the audio forums > more than anyone. They hang up and drive people away. I've seen it a > million times and so have you if you're honest enough to admit it. That "surely" I guess is the same as "everybody knows" (which really means "I think, but can't prove")? I have seen audiophiles bully anyone trying to present measurements or rational arguments, and I have seen it far too often. It drives away people who actually know something about electronics and acoustics, and only leaves the faithful, who don't care if something is real or fairy dust, as long as it is "fun". "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
kidstypike wrote: > Not "different", it's always "better", and the more it costs, the better > it gets. Yeah this is difficult. The shops I've dealt with have generally acknowledged that things like the "naim sound" for example is an acquired taste and not a truly sonically uncoloured solution, so they freely talk about the way things sound as being a preference. That can still be described as an "improvement" if that's the type of sound you like, however, in subjective terms anyway. The price question is trickier. No-one is under the impression that the amount of engineering that goes into a £2k speaker cable (for example) is required to make the sound come out of the speakers. But once it's done, that company has to recoup those costs. Every company uses high end products to elevate their advertising profile to sell more low end stuff. They all state their more expensive one is "better". Me? I don't care, as long as they don't actually fake results and mislead. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
alfista wrote: > Yet someone made the claim that a file sounded different the second time > it was read and didn't like it being called out and refuted based on > easily verified facts It was subjective, you know, so it shouldn't have > to stand up to scrutiny. I think it's more the way it's called out. It was obviously based on misunderstandings which were corrected pretty smartly but in a way that was less than charitable. > Changes in the analogue domain may obviously alter the sound, but I much > prefer claims that are based on some kind of objective analysis and > lacking that at least a subjective judgement that stays moderately > plausible. Dramatic changes due to a different power lead doesn't enter > that realm, even subtle changes is a stretch. I agree. And I don't see the point in posh power cables either. And I don't think anyone other than the outright scammers called out at the beginning of *this* thread would ever claim anything more than extremely subtle differences from cable changes. Ignoring the question of "value for money" of course. Unfortunately your average hifi nut/audiophile would not have access to the necessary test equipment to gather proofs.. so what are the options? The sceptics, like all of us, are quick to talk down things but rarely offer suggestions as to how to do it instead. (At least I've not seen much of that here.) drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Mnyb wrote: > We are kot talking simple R,L,C and Screen . No higher order effects > like skinneffect does not matter audio is not radar or TV signlas > > The cable scamsters usually claims thing like that silver sounds diffent > than copper :D thats alchemy or build funny boxes at the end of the > cable and really do make it sound diffent huh ? Not "different", it's always "better", and the more it costs, the better it gets. kidstypike LMS on Raspberry Pi 3/max2play/HiFiBerry DAC+ > AVI DM5 1 x SB3 - 1 x Boom - 1 x (Squeezebox) Radio - 2 x Touch - 2 x Raspberry Pi/piCorePlayer/HiFiBerry kidstypike's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10436 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > Much like the analogy in another thread of a picture in a book being the > same no matter how many times you open the book to look at it. > Irrelevant. Yet someone made the claim that a file sounded different the second time it was read and didn't like it being called out and refuted based on easily verified facts It was subjective, you know, so it shouldn't have to stand up to scrutiny. Changes in the analogue domain may obviously alter the sound, but I much prefer claims that are based on some kind of objective analysis and lacking that at least a subjective judgement that stays moderately plausible. Dramatic changes due to a different power lead doesn't enter that realm, even subtle changes is a stretch. Any change done to a normally working digital transport on the other hand has to be intentionally degrading the fidelity of the signal (altering the content) to be audible, any products to improve digital transport or the proponents of said products can and should be dismissed. alfista's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32396 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Julf wrote: > Surely most sceptics are sceptics. Sceptics tend to dislike falsehoods, > hearsay, misinformation and superstition. I think "hate" is way too > strong a word. > > Maybe it is time to remind you once again that we sceptics (and I am > more than happy to be called that - "a person who habitually doubts the > authenticity of accepted beliefs") have nothing against audiophiles per > se. What we don't like is fanatic audiophiles who rationalize their > preferences by resorting to pseudoscience (and personal attacks against > anyone who questions their beliefs). Surely as an audiophile I've been attacked on a regular basis. I find myself getting ugly in defense. But having measurable proof, as sceptics require is not the end all be all. Sometimes you can have a measurable difference but no real perceptible audible difference and vise versa. At the end of the day it's all subjective. Those who know, know that everything and anything can and does make a difference Key word difference, not necessarily better. For me this hobby is fun, therefore trying everything just adds to the fun. Yes even voodoo magic of necessary. If rather meet change with an open mind than scepticism. And surely it's obvious the sceptics bully people on the audio forums more than anyone. They hang up and drive people away. I've seen it a million times and so have you if you're honest enough to admit it. edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
We are kot talking simple R,L,C and Screen . No higher order effects like skinneffect does not matter audio is not radar or TV signlas The cable scamsters usually claims thing like that silver sounds diffent than copper :D thats alchemy or build funny boxes at the end of the cable and really do make it sound diffent huh ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Yes obviously those analogies were not supposed to be taken seriously, much like most of this thread. Much like the analogy in another thread of a picture in a book being the same no matter how many times you open the book to look at it. Irrelevant. I am glad you don your colourful sceptic underpants-on-the-outside in other parts of life too, but don't be closed minded. The science has to move on. Believe it or not I actually am an engineer too. I don't believe digital changes will make audible differences to your sound system as long as the data stream remains unmodified. (I've yet to thoroughly test this, but I'm happy to take it as read that it's the case.) On the analogue side, however, I think there's plenty of scope for audibility of all sorts of things. Well, all sorts of things that actually change the path or scale of electrical signals. Painting CDs green or hanging sparkly things on your curtains is clearly so much BS I rightly join you in laughing at it. But swapping analogue interconnects? Yeah, I can understand how that can subtly alter the sound. I'm also happy to state that this is all about preference though, and nothing to do with "performance", per se. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
edwardthern wrote: > Surely most sceptics are haters Surely most sceptics are sceptics. Sceptics tend to dislike falsehoods, hearsay, misinformation and superstition. I think "hate" is way too strong a word. Maybe it is time to remind you once again that we sceptics (and I am more than happy to be called that - "a person who habitually doubts the authenticity of accepted beliefs") have nothing against audiophiles per se. What we don't like is fanatic audiophiles who rationalize their preferences by resorting to pseudoscience (and personal attacks against anyone who questions their beliefs). "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Ah, here comes another bunch of straw men - the snapping sounds you hear are analogies being stretched way beyond any sane limits. drmatt wrote: > I wonder if there is such a thing as a "car fanatic sceptic"? After all, > cars are reviewed based on totally subjective criteria repeatedly and we > all laugh at Top Gear's cool wall but it's all just bull. Every single > one of them is just a box with seats in that goes from A to B. No > measurable difference in its ability to go from A to B, and yet.. where > are the nay sayers? Let's start with the fact that there are easily measurable differences between cars, but of course a lot of BS too. Top Gear is/was a comedy programme very loosely based on cars. And yes, there are lot of car sceptics, pointing out that all sorts of cottage industry "go faster" accessories are totally useless (but if you want to buy a special magnet that improves fuel mileage, PM me) > There are all these things you could do that would be productive for > society. But no, you prefer to belittle folks playing around in a little > cottage industry that barely touches the side of the world economy.. > > Use your sceptic powers for good, not evil! ;) I can't speak for anyone else, but I do in fact spend a fair bit of time countering misinformation, voodoo, and outright lies in my other areas of expertise too. That is the problem with us engineers, we believe in provable facts and rational thinking. Very naive and silly, I know. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > I wonder if there is such a thing as a "car fanatic sceptic"? After all, > cars are reviewed based on totally subjective criteria repeatedly and we > all laugh at Top Gear's cool wall but it's all just bull. Every single > one of them is just a box with seats in that goes from A to B. No > measurable difference in its ability to go from A to B, and yet.. where > are the nay sayers? And then there's estate agents. Can you guys go > spend your not inconsiderable time shouting down estate agents who > charge more because there's no measurable difference in the service they > provide? There are all these things you could do that would be > productive for society. But no, you prefer to belittle folks playing > around in a little cottage industry that barely touches the side of the > world economy.. > > Use your sceptic powers for good, not evil! ;) Great post! Surely most sceptics are haters edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
I wonder if there is such a thing as a "car fanatic sceptic"? After all, cars are reviewed based on totally subjective criteria repeatedly and we all laugh at Top Gear's cool wall but it's all just bull. Every single one of them is just a box with seats in that goes from A to B. No measurable difference in its ability to go from A to B, and yet.. where are the nay sayers? And then there's estate agents. Can you guys go spend your not inconsiderable time shouting down estate agents who charge more because there's no measurable difference in the service they provide? There are all these things you could do that would be productive for society. But no, you prefer to belittle folks playing around in a little cottage industry that barely touches the side of the world economy.. Use your sceptic powers for good, not evil! ;) drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > Sansui must sell a lot of crap hifi to sceptics since everything sounds > the same.. And audiophiles must go through a lot of straw... "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Sansui must sell a lot of crap hifi to sceptics if everything sounds the same.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
arnyk wrote: > Truth be told just about everything you do will change the sound if you > do audiophile-type listening tests - IOW don't match levels, don't time > synch the music, don't quick switch and by all means don't keep people > from knowing which of the alternatives they are listening to at all > times. . You forgot to mention that it is important that the test organizer ask leading questions and also make it clear that if the listener doesn't give the "correct" response that it will assumed there is something intellectually wrong with them. Also make sure that the desired product is advantageously displayed in comparison to its inferior competitors. mlsstl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
edwardthern wrote: > This stuff is NOT snake oil at all. > > When people have good sound systems they can hear all sorts of tweaks, > and truth be told just about everything you do can change the sound. > > However if your gear is not so good nothing changes the sound. > > Keep these good tweaks coming, but don't expect people with crappy gear > to buy into it Truth be told just about everything you do will change the sound if you do audiophile-type listening tests - IOW don't match levels, don't time synch the music, don't quick switch and by all means don't keep people from knowing which of the alternatives they are listening to at all times. Of course science tells us that audiophile-type listening tests aren't really listening tests at all. They test biases and preconceived notions, not actual sound quality. If you want to convince yourself that the craziest audio ideas that anybody comes up with are gospel truth - just keep basing all your conclusions on audiophile-type listening tests. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Dogberry2 wrote: > Yep! Just about everything will affect the sound! It's just that people > who understand physics, electronics, acoustics, and engineering can't > hear all the magical effects that take place. > > Here's a good one; try this! Put the giblets of three medium-sized > chickens into a brown paper sack, along with some garlic cloves and a > blue bead. Now, with your system turned off, wave the bag over your head > six times with your left hand while patting your tummy with your right > and chanting "Magic-O! Mystic-O! Make the bad noises GO!" > > Now unplug and plug back in the main power to your system three times, > whistling "It Don't Mean A Thing (If It Ain't Got That Swing)" each > time. Then turn the power back on and listen to your system while > standing on one foot and breathing through your eyelids. It will make an > AMAZING difference! Try it! You'll see! Actually I tried that, afterwards I cooked the chickens and ate them while I was listening. FANTASTIC! edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Mnyb wrote: > You pretty much have to jack the prices . It really does not cost much > to make a good enough cable for any hifi aplication . > So thTs the snake oil its well inown electrical engineering how to make > a cable . It's low volume economics too. Any company making a product in the UK for a market in the hundreds or low thousands just isn't able to compete financially. So to some extent you DO expect these companies to have to charge more. To some extent.. not gonna tell you that any particular price is justified. Whether there's a technical difference between that they produce and what the mass market players produce is of course open to debate but remember technical performance is rarely the one and only decision making factor for most buyers.. It's a low volume boutique product, like a handbag, watch or a posh frock, that's all. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
"hearing the difference". Well there's lots of stuff I'm pretty sure I can hear the difference on. Like different speaker cables. Moving my speakers a foot or so. Using a totally different DAC. I am yet to be convinced that I heard any difference whatsoever by changing any digital-only components, however. Using a DVD player to play CDs sounds exactly the same as using my squeezebox to play flac rips of those CDs when both are outputting data to the same DAC. I can't tell the difference between flac and wav, but I can tell the difference between flac and 320kb mp3 (for some recordings, not all). Most stuff in the analogue domain does sound slightly different, imho. But different doesn't equate to better. I'm fine with a pursuit of lower distortion, but that can only come from changing electronics, generally. The rest (cables et al) just modifies, subtlely, the frequency and phase biases of the system and yes it will sound superficially different, but not BETTER in objective terms. On the other hand, "more pleasing" is a purely subjective measure and it's fine for people to acknowledge they prefer some types of colouration over others, and "different" is the same as "better" for most people. At least in the short term. Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
edwardthern wrote: > This stuff is NOT snake oil at all. > > When people have good sound systems they can hear all sorts of tweaks, > and truth be told just about everything you do can change the sound. > > However if your gear is not so good nothing changes the sound. > > Keep these good tweaks coming, but don't expect people with crappy gear > to buy into it Yep! Just about everything will affect the sound! It's just that people who understand physics, electronics, acoustics, and engineering can't hear all the magical effects that take place. Here's a good one; try this! Put the giblets of three medium-sized chickens into a brown paper sack, along with some garlic cloves and a blue bead. Now, with your system turned off, wave the bag over your head six times with your left hand while patting your tummy with your right and chanting "Magic-O! Mystic-O! Make the bad noises GO!" Now unplug and plug back in the main power to your system three times, whistling "It Don't Mean A Thing (If It Ain't Got That Swing)" each time. Then turn the power back on and listen to your system while standing on one foot and breathing through your eyelids. It will make an AMAZING difference! Try it! You'll see! Dogberry2's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18883 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
You pretty much have to jack the prices . It really does not cost much to make a good enough cable for any hifi aplication . So thTs the snake oil its well inown electrical engineering how to make a cable . Sell them to audiophiles is well known marketting scam "snake oil" they even refusento believe cognitive science and hapilly fool thrmselfs and tells others about how good it is ;) the scam is virtually self propagating . Design fancy cable write technoble blurb earn money for 1000% markup vs bom research cost is close to zero Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
The good thing about being an Audiophile is that we can hear things even if they aren't there. The bad thing about being an Audiophile is that we often need to buy very expensive gear, or go through all sort of contortions before we believe we hear a difference, when all we would have needed was someone telling us they had tweaked our system. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Some of it is snake oil. The issue is telling the difference between stuff that's genuinely well made with a purpose attached to it, and the stuff where they just added a glossier logo and doubled the price knowing full well they are just grabbing more money for NO REASON. Trouble is it's genuinely hard to tell the difference between these two conditions, so a lot of people have simply given up trying, and I do understand that view point. Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
The good thing about being an Audiophile is that we can hear and enjoy things in the music that most people don't/can't, partly because of our acute hearing and partly because of our fantastic gear. The bad thing about being an Audiophile is all those people who can't hear and have crappy gear are jealous. Oh well:D:D:cool::cool: edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
If you say so. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
This stuff is NOT snake oil at all. When people have good sound systems they can hear all sorts of tweaks, and truth be told just about everything you do can change the sound. However if your gear is not so good nothing changes the sound. Keep these good tweaks coming, but don't expect people with crappy gear to buy into it edwardthern's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66099 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
cliveb wrote: > The power companies are obliged by the government to support the scheme, > and the money it costs them is obtained by a "renewables surcharge" on > the power bills. So in effect, people without solar panel systems are > subsidising those who have them. It's another disgraceful example of > taking from the poor and giving to the rich, all driven by a daft EU > regulation. "in effect" is one way of looking at it, but let's face it all governments have to offer incentives to people to risk their own cash to buy new tech that pushes society as a whole forward. In truth the microgeneration this represents will likely be what saves taxpayers billions in power station builds down the road, so though "in effect" you are right, the truth is that ALL infrastructure is supported by the taxpayer at the end of the day. And given that most solar PV installs don't pay back inside 15-20 years now the person who buys PV will have to have a good chunk of their own cash invested for a long time before it pays them anything in return. It's never as simple as it looks.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Very interesting. Thanks. We have a very similar green energy selling scheme here in the US, with a couple minor differences. The government (federal & state) set minimum green mandates per power company as a percentage of generated/sold power. Might be 10% this year then increasing to 12% in two years. Goes up from there. So however many KWHs/MWHs sold a certain percentage must be from provable green generated sources or they pay a hefty non-compliance fee (read: fine). How that power company meets these goals (mandates) is completely up to them. They could build out their own green power generation (solar/wind/hydro/geo . Whatever) or they can buy such green generated power from others or any combination of both. Others could be homeowners, business, or even other power companies that may have an excess of green generation. Rates are determined by the market and although these rates vary by region they are quite stable in pricing (i.e. there is not really sharp price fluctuations). All buyers & sellers must use an independent certified energy broker to be the go between representing both buyer & seller. You sell to the broker, the broker resells to the power companies. Sellers & buyers have no idea who each other are (or care). This makes sense because it removes both the small home owner and the big power company from negotiating complicated power generation contracts for very small amounts of power, removes the homeowner from compliance issues and restrictive licensing requirements from both state and federal agencies, etc toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
toby10 wrote: > I'm curious if your solar install is active or passive? I assume it is > the simpler system of just generating power to be sold/added on the grid > (that was my proposed system)? Or are you actually using your own > generated power yourself (which usually involves batteries and a lot > more complicated system) where you are augmenting your grid needs with > your own generated power? I do use some of the power that is generated, but it does not involve any storage. My system has an inverter to convert the DC to mains AC. If I happen to be using electricity while it's generated, the solar panels provide it. Power is only bought from the grid to top up any extra the house needs over what the panels are generating. If the panels generate any excess, it is exported back to the grid. The power company pays a very generous amount for what the panels generate, regardless of whether I use it or it's exported to the grid. It also pays a nominal amount for any that is exported, and since I don't have an export meter, it is assumed that 50% of generation is exported. All domestic solar panel systems installed under the "feed in tariff" scheme in the UK work like this (although some installations do have export meters). The power companies are obliged by the government to support the scheme, and the money it costs them is obtained by a "renewables surcharge" on the power bills. So in effect, people without solar panel systems are subsidising those who have them. It's another disgraceful example of taking from the poor and giving to the rich, all driven by a daft EU regulation. (Before anyone jumps to the conclusion that I'm anti-EU: I'm not. Like most other people I know I'm very upset about the result of the referendum). Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
cliveb wrote: > I am very pessimistic about recharge times ever getting short enough. > Not because of limitations in battery technology, but because of the > practical limits of how much power you can feed in during recharging. > 200 miles range requires about 50kWh - that's not going to change, > because electric motors are already staggeringly efficient. If you want > to charge 50kWh in, say, 5 minutes, you need to feed in power at 600kW > (assuming 100% efficiency). I can't see how that can ever be viable. > Agree with your maths. We'd either need to be charging at 10k Volts / 60 A or using plug-in pre-charged supercapacitors as a charging system or something we haven't yet thought of. FWIW based only on its power output the top of the line Tesla battery pack may actually be able to soak around 400-450 KW in short bursts. A charge time of 20 minutes is much more achievable however, and making the cars lighter and giving them less powerful electric motors would make the overall consumption lower requiring smaller power ingest too. It's tricky at the moment but I don't think these will be problems we think about twice in 20 years time. cliveb wrote: > > In that case I'd imagine you probably would agree with something I heard > a long time ago: "oil is too valuable to burn". > Totally! I want clever polymers and ultra light waterproof sheet materials not clouds of black smoke thanks. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
cliveb, I couldn't agree more! You hit the nail on the head on all points! :) I'm curious if your solar install is active or passive? I assume it is the simpler system of just generating power to be sold/added on the grid (that was my proposed system)? Or are you actually using your own generated power yourself (which usually involves batteries and a lot more complicated system) where you are augmenting your grid needs with your own generated power? toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
toby10 wrote: > Until charging times are greatly improved battery fuel will remain a > niche product. Hopefully battery tech will vastly improve as drmatt > said, but that is many years down the road at best. I am very pessimistic about recharge times ever getting short enough. Not because of limitations in battery technology, but because of the practical limits of how much power you can feed in during recharging. 200 miles range requires about 50kWh - that's not going to change, because electric motors are already staggeringly efficient. If you want to charge 50kWh in, say, 5 minutes, you need to feed in power at 600kW (assuming 100% efficiency). I can't see how that can ever be viable. toby10 wrote: > My business is industrial chemicals (specifically polymers). In that case I'd imagine you probably would agree with something I heard a long time ago: "oil is too valuable to burn". Re. your solar panel adventure. Here in the UK the government has an incentive for home owners to install them, but it's driven by EU targets on increasing renewable generation and seems to make little logical sense. Sometimes "green dogma politics" ends up causing environmental damage. I took advantage of the deal and have a 4kW system on my (thankfully unshaded) roof, and have recovered about 65% of the upfront cost in the first 4 years. But I have to admit that I did it out of economic greed rather than environmental concern. Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Before you guys think Im a plant or have some hidden agenda against green anything (and before we get booted for being so OT in here) .. . Im 100% in favor of ALL green energy and green transportation. Nor do I work for or have any affiliation with the the gas/oil/coal/nuke/power industries. My business is industrial chemicals (specifically polymers). But I am pragmatic and a realist who just doesnt buy into the panacea of the green dream. Im hopeful for it but its a long way off from being a reality. So much so in fact, a couple years ago I was completely on board with putting a solar array on the entire back roof of my home. I had check in hand (literally). Up front buy/install was around $30k, offset later by Fed and State grants/rebates to about $21k (all in cost after grants/rebates). Going forward with selling my generated power back on the grid + ongoing tax credits (credits, not deductions, big difference) the break even was about 7 years. From then on it was all cash in pocket minus some minor maintenance and replacing panels as needed (they dont last forever). Plus, of course, the cool factor of having solar panels. All fine . Until .. The rep/installer did his physical home survey where they can reliably indicate and predict actual kwh generation. My panels would only be about 50% efficient at best. Why? The trees in my back yard are shading my roof too much during parts of the day. So the only way for me to help my planet was to cut down a bunch of beautiful trees. Trees which in part was the reason I bought that house. A compromise I was not willing to make. toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
cliveb, drmatt I completely agree with both of you. Until charging times are greatly improved battery fuel will remain a niche product. Hopefully battery tech will vastly improve as drmatt said, but that is many years down the road at best. I have no viable alternative for personal transport. Like you, I see little chance of green energy ever being capable of reliably powering the current or future energy needs of the world. I honestly think we are making a huge mistake not going full board with nuclear power, augmented where feasible with green power. Especially if we build the newer 4th generation nuclear plants where their targeted primary fuel source is our already spent nuclear fuel rods. Nukes solve every aspect of what we want from "green" energy with respect to small physical footprint, small carbon footprint, on demand generation, releases only steam to make power, existing delivery method, etc... But then there are the safety concerns and spent fuel rods (which is greatly reduced with 4th gen plants). I say go nukes (like France which gets around 80% of it's power from nukes) then replace nukes over time with green energy as it becomes prevalent, relevant, and reliable. Every form of energy generation has it's draw backs. The Achilles heal of any green power is storage for when the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine. Solve long term reliable storage and we can then use anything we wish to generate it. Solar panels require some nasty chemicals to make. Wind can harm birds and must be turned off in high winds (happened in UK a few years back). Hydroelectric requires steady water flow (not too fast not too slow) in a changing world of droughts and floods (the Hoover dam will soon be turned off as it's source is drying up). Etc... Possibly cold fusion? Possibly solve long term green energy storage? Green energy source we haven't even dreamed of yet? All possible.. but the reality is we MUST build sustainable "clean as we can get" power generation NOW for future needs. Try them all, keep improving them, but lets build what we know and need NOW. IMHO I just don't see a better way than nukes. :) toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
cliveb wrote: > I cannot see any prospect of ever being able to charge up batteries fast > enough. I think that with a few more years development in battery tech and a standardised fast charge network they could actually be viable for all but the longest range drivers. Replace every existing petrol station with a charger that delivers a 200 mile range change in 20 minutes, then add charging at home, at work, at the shops.. it could work. Imagine where we would be today if we'd done this from day one instead of the 2 horse power 2 litre petrol engines we started with? Battery cars are still brand new, they have a long way to go, as does the infrastructure to support them. It is indeed expensive though. Liquid fuel is just damned convenient. Pity it's finite and we keep using it for stupid stuff.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
toby10 wrote: > BIG if indeed > Hydrogen vs gas was just another comparison of the bad idea. Ok, lets > talk renewable energy generation. Being optimistic it takes at least 3 > times the energy to produce equal miles driven compared to current > battery fuel. So that's 3 times MORE solar panels, 3 times MORE wind > turbines, 3 times MORE hydroelectric dams, 3 times MORE (pick your > energy generation method) to drive the same miles compared to current > battery fuel. As batteries continue to improve this divide will only > widen. > > If you want to be efficient with what green energy you produce and use, > hydrogen fuel is a fools game. OK, you've convinced me that hydrogen perhaps isn't the solution. But I still see recharge times as a deal breaker for pure electric cars (which from other posts of yours I get the feeling you might agree about). I cannot see any prospect of ever being able to charge up batteries fast enough. So: what would you suggest is a viable alternative to petroleum for powering personal transport? It's a problem that has to be solved. BTW, re. renewable energy generation: I'm skeptical that wind/wave/tidal/hydro/geothermal can ever deliver enough. Possibly solar in some parts of the world (but certainly not the UK!) As far as I can see, fusion is the only realistic solution, but it's still a long way off. Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
cliveb wrote: > OK, I can't comment on the vulnerability of hydrogen in pipelines, but I > have seen film of a compressed cylinder of hydrogen being shot with an > armour-piercing bullet. Result: well, not a lot, really. The tank didn't > explode, all that happened was a small blue flame burning slowly out of > the bullet hole. > > FYI, I live 6 miles from the Buncefield oil storage depot which exploded > back in 2005. It destroyed the building where my wife worked, and had it > happened during office hours rather than 6am on a Sunday, I would now be > a widower. My feeling is that the storage of gasoline is probably less > safe than hydrogen. Yes and part of the reason for that is the inefficiency of hydrogen as a fuel. Gasoline holds four times (est) the energy as an equal amount of compressed hydrogen. Therefore gas is four times more explosive, which makes it a far better (more efficient) energy source than (inefficient) hydrogen. Assuming they figured out how to make hydrogen equal to gasoline in efficiency you now have four times the explosive power AND high compression. The tanks are quite safe but it's still compressed hydrogen on every highway and on every street corner (gas station). toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
cliveb wrote: > So you're comparing hydrogen to gasoline. I hadn't realised the > goalposts had been moved. > > OF COURSE gasoline is a far more convenient energy source than hydrogen. > But I thought we were looking for a practical renewable alternative. > I was simply comparing the feasibility of hydrogen v. pure electric. > > If (and it's a big IF) we can solve the problem of renewable energy > production, then the costs of hydrogen production are not really the > issue, and we're left only with the practicalities of usage. But then > again, I suppose if we had effectively limitlless renewable energy, we > could use it to manufacture gasoline... BIG if indeed Hydrogen vs gas was just another comparison of the bad idea. Ok, lets talk renewable energy generation. Being optimistic it takes at least 3 times the energy to produce equal miles driven compared to current battery fuel. So that's 3 times MORE solar panels, 3 times MORE wind turbines, 3 times MORE hydroelectric dams, 3 times MORE (pick your energy generation method) to drive the same miles compared to current battery fuel. As batteries continue to improve this divide will only widen. If you want to be efficient with what green energy you produce and use, hydrogen fuel is a fools game. toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > I've driven a few, and frankly they are all unacceptable compromises - > except the Tesla. > > Have to say however the Tesla is not an environmentally friendly car. > The performance on offer consumes prodigious amounts of energy in a > short time, much like other supercars, and until you're generating that > power from renewables that means fossil fuel and a poor effective MPG... Ok people dnt aprieciaty how inefficiebt petrol cars are . What makes petroleum a workable system is the incredible anount of energy it packs per litte or gallon . But only about 35% in beT casr is cncertd to movement the rest is wstd heat ( In a electric motor its about 95% or better Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
toby10 wrote: > Now you have huge amounts of highly compressed hydrogen flowing through > pipelines, on tanker trucks, over rail, all delivered to every street > corner to (again) sit in highly compressed underground tanks. With > today's crazies/terrorist all over the planet I can just imagine them > exploiting that already volatile mix. To say nothing of the potential > environmental issues should these tanks leak/puncture, whether it be > sabotage or just an honest ps.:) OK, I can't comment on the vulnerability of hydrogen in pipelines, but I have seen film of a compressed cylinder of hydrogen being shot with an armour-piercing bullet. Result: well, not a lot, really. The tank didn't explode, all that happened was a small blue flame burning slowly out of the bullet hole. FYI, I live 6 miles from the Buncefield oil storage depot which exploded back in 2005. It destroyed the building where my wife worked, and had it happened during office hours rather than 6am on a Sunday, I would now be a widower. My feeling is that the storage of gasoline is probably less safe than hydrogen. Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
toby10 wrote: > Manufacturing, production, storage, distribution, usage, > transportation... not one category is better than battery technology, > and that aint sayin' much. :) > > One quick example: assuming you solved the first 5 (meaning those are > at least carbon and cost neutral to gasoline and/or electric batteries) > lets just look at the last one. > Using the latest high capacity (high compression) hydrogen storage tank > technology (extremely expensive tanker trucks) it would take 3 tanker > trucks of hydrogen to deliver the same miles driven as a single tanker > truck of gasoline. Or put another way, one tanker truck of gasoline can > fill 900 gasoline cars (est) vs the same size hydrogen tanker truck can > only fill 300 hydrogen cars (est), assuming both types of cars are > driving the same miles. So you're comparing hydrogen to gasoline. I hadn't realised the goalposts had been moved. OF COURSE gasoline is a far more convenient energy source than hydrogen. But I thought we were looking for a practical renewable alternative. I was simply comparing the feasibility of hydrogen v. pure electric. If (and it's a big IF) we can solve the problem of renewable energy production, then the costs of hydrogen production are not really the issue, and we're left only with the practicalities of usage. But then again, I suppose if we had effectively limitlless renewable energy, we could use it to manufacture gasoline... Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
toby10 wrote: > I love the idea of electric cars, I've driven several just for fun > (sadly not a Tesla). It is just not a practical vehicle for me and > obviously many others. I've driven a few, and frankly they are all unacceptable compromises - except the Tesla. Have to say however the Tesla is not an environmentally friendly car. The performance on offer consumes prodigious amounts of energy in a short time, much like other supercars, and until you're generating that power from renewables that means fossil fuel and a poor effective MPG... drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Yeah, I trust Tesla's numbers as much as I trust MPG ratings. ;) Yes, they are talking about battery swap stations. Certainly better time wise. But that also assumes they have your batteries (for which there is no standard among car makers), that they have your specific batteries charged (hoping 2 other similar cars didn't just recently get a swap and/or some gas station attendant glued to his cell phone remembered to plug those in). Also make sure to factor in the environmental impact of shipping heavy batteries around the globe as replacement "fuel" for cars. I love the idea of electric cars, I've driven several just for fun (sadly not a Tesla). It is just not a practical vehicle for me and obviously many others. toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
So far Tesla are reporting capacity loss nowhere near 20% on even the earliest cars. More like 7-10%. I don't think there's any doubt that cars other than the Tesla and its supercharger network are not serious contenders for long journeys. Also note that Tesla are starting to engineer battery pack replacement stations... drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
cliveb wrote: > The circumstance when you need to refuel the car quickly is when > you're on a long trip, and you simply can't afford to wait around for > half an hour every 90 mins. 30 minute wait if you are lucky. Tesla's own site shows 75 minutes to full charge, and that's if you are using their latest cars/batteries with their own "super charger" stations, and further assumes your batteries are relatively new. As those batteries age you would get less "fuel" in that 75 minutes, so now you are driving say 20% fewer miles on the same charge which in turn increases your downtime (more frequent refueling for less miles driven). . and that's the ROSY picture as many electric vehicles claim 3+ hours to fully charged (refueled) and that's for a brand new car. :) toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
cliveb wrote: > .. simply can't afford to wait around for half an hour every 90 mins. Ok but be fair if you plan your long journey right and land on superchargers you get more like 3 or 4 hours between half hour charges with a high capacity Tesla. For the smaller battery cars they just won't hack this type of use I agree. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
pablolie wrote: > Can you say Hindenburg? :-) LOL That is another whole side that is seldom talked about safety/security. Forget the carbon aspect and extreme inefficiencies in making/delivering hydrogen fuel. Now you have huge amounts of highly compressed hydrogen flowing through pipelines, on tanker trucks, over rail, all delivered to every street corner to (again) sit in highly compressed underground tanks. With today's crazies/terrorist all over the planet I can just imagine them exploiting that already volatile mix. To say nothing of the potential environmental issues should these tanks leak/puncture, whether it be sabotage or just an honest ps.:) toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
cliveb wrote: > Apart from that, what other problems does hydrogen have? Manufacturing, production, storage, distribution, usage, transportation... not one category is better than battery technology, and that aint sayin' much. :) One quick example: assuming you solved the first 5 (meaning those are at least carbon and cost neutral to gasoline and/or electric batteries) lets just look at the last one. Using the latest high capacity (high compression) hydrogen storage tank technology (extremely expensive tanker trucks) it would take 3 tanker trucks of hydrogen to deliver the same miles driven as a single tanker truck of gasoline. Or put another way, one tanker truck of gasoline can fill 900 gasoline cars (est) vs the same size hydrogen tanker truck can only fill 300 hydrogen cars (est), assuming both types of cars are driving the same miles. toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
pablolie wrote: > I know plenty of people with Teslas here in the Bay Area. > *_Except_for_one,_they_are_all_second_cars_*. Precisely the point I was making earlier. Electric cars are only suitable for short journeys. Perhaps it's different in the US to the UK. Over here a lot of households have just one car, which needs to be capable of long trips as well as commuting and shopping. toby10 wrote: > Hydrogen cars are essentially just electric cars using a different fuel > (hydrogen instead of batteries). Yes. toby10 wrote: > The one advantage to hydrogen over batteries is refueling time. Quite so. And my point is that in practical terms this is a deal breaker. The circumstance when you need to refuel the car quickly is when you're on a long trip, and you simply can't afford to wait around for half an hour every 90 mins. toby10 wrote: > But every other aspect of hydrogen as a vehicle fuel source is a big > negative. Obviously there is an additional stage of inefficiency involved when electricity is used to make hydrogen which doesn't apply to pure electric cars. But we need to solve the generic problem of energy supply regardless (fusion, anyone?), and if we do that, this issue isn't really a problem. Apart from that, what other problems does hydrogen have? Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
toby10 wrote: > Hydrogen is a horrible fuel source, especially for vehicles. Hydrogen > cars are essentially just electric cars using a different fuel (hydrogen > instead of batteries). The one advantage to hydrogen over batteries is > refueling time. But every other aspect of hydrogen as a vehicle fuel > source is a big negative. Can you say Hindenburg? :-) ...pablo Server: Virtual Machine (on VMware Workstation 12) running Ubuntu 16.04 + LMS 7.9 System: SB Touch --optical->- Benchmark DAC2HGC --AnalysisPlus Oval Copper XLR->- NAD M22 Power Amp --AnalysisPlus Black Mesh Oval->- Totem Element Fire Other Rooms: 2x SB Boom; 1x SB Radio; 1x SB Classic-> NAD D7050 -> Totem DreamCatcher + Velodyne Minivee Sub Computer audio: workstation --USB->- audioengine D1 -> Grado PS500e/Shure 1540 pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Hydrogen is a horrible fuel source, especially for vehicles. Hydrogen cars are essentially just electric cars using a different fuel (hydrogen instead of batteries). The one advantage to hydrogen over batteries is refueling time. But every other aspect of hydrogen as a vehicle fuel source is a big negative. toby10's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
My supercar analogy was based on the fact that while performance differences can be measured indeed, in day to day driving and with speed limits and horrible drivers out there - it doesn't make a difference, and in many ways is an inferior choice. The same could be argued about cables - differences can indeed be measured, but the human ear can't resolve things the way measuring resistance/capacitance/inductance would. As to electric cars... classic example of to each their own. I know plenty of people with Teslas here in the Bay Area. Except for one, they are all second cars. ...pablo Server: Virtual Machine (on VMware Workstation 12) running Ubuntu 16.04 + LMS 7.9 System: SB Touch --optical->- Benchmark DAC2HGC --AnalysisPlus Oval Copper XLR->- NAD M22 Power Amp --AnalysisPlus Black Mesh Oval->- Totem Element Fire Other Rooms: 2x SB Boom; 1x SB Radio; 1x SB Classic-> NAD D7050 -> Totem DreamCatcher + Velodyne Minivee Sub Computer audio: workstation --USB->- audioengine D1 -> Grado PS500e/Shure 1540 pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Most travel is short comuting meaning that you charge at home and never visit the petrol station ? The long haul travels ? Well thats what I'm doing part of the year there insee the problem , but most of the time i go back and forth between the office the grocery store and home . When the wether permits i actually go by bike :) bypassing the car problem entirely ! I think regulatory demands for large citys will Set the agenda . I dont believe in hydrogen its to inefficient and clumsy . I can trade of a 30 min coffe break to charge its acceptable to me , so it crossed the line for me . Especially when i will mostly charge at work and at home , so the total time spent passively waiting for a charge will be less than the time i spend at gas stations now. We accept the petrol sytem because we are used to it , a flamable toxic and cancerogenic chemical that we gladly handle without space suits :) and it probably uses up more electricity to make the petrol than would be used by electrical cars . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > The Tesla supercharger network genuinely means you can grab a coffee and > cake and get a 150-200 mile range boost while you wait. Yes it's not > instant but nor is it Nissan Leaf 8hrs charge either. It's also free, as > a nice sweetener.. I still think far too much effort is being spent on small incremental improvements to a fundamentally unworkable model. According to Tesla, their Supercharger adds 170 miles range in 30 minutes. Sure, it's much better than charging at home, but it's still WAY too slow for making decent progress on a long journey. (I like the way that Tesla say it's an opportunity to grab a cup of coffee while I wait - as if I'd want to drink yet another cup of overpriced Starbucks dishwater every time I fill up). Unfortunately companies have invested a great deal of money into electric vehicles, so it'll be some time before they admit defeat and switch to something workable, like fuel cells. drmatt wrote: > Fuel cells and/or hot swap batteries would be a great concept, but we're > a way off either of those being on the road. You can buy a Toyota Mirai now. Unfortunately it's over 60 grand - about 10k more than a Tesla S. But it does refuel in 3 minutes - if you could find anywere to buy the hydrogen (which you can't, of course). drmatt wrote: > Just getting to the point of having ONE standard motorway fast charger > would be good enough and they can't even agree on that... This gets to the heart of the problem - building the refuelling infrastructure. Neither is yet in place, so it strikes me that we should aim to deploy the more practical option - which is hydrogen. Unfortunately an infrastructure for recharging electric vehicles is already growing - driven by the motor industry's stupid decision to back the wrong horse - so the chances are that fuel cell technology will be held back for a while yet. Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
cliveb wrote: > We have all grown up expecting to pull into a filling station and be on > our way in a few minutes. So the paradigm shift needed for electric cars > to become mainstream is the discovery of some way to recharge them very > quickly.[] > > In the meantime, electric cars will be limited to things like commuting > and shopping. Whilst agreeing with the points you raise, I don't agree that this leaves electric cars as a sideshow. The Tesla supercharger network genuinely means you can grab a coffee and cake and get a 150-200 mile range boost while you wait. Yes it's not instant but nor is it Nissan Leaf 8hrs charge either. It's also free, as a nice sweetener.. (I believe the Tesla S P90 battery pack is 90KWh btw, the model number designates battery capacity.) Currently there's really only Tesla making a properly viable all electric car. The others are token effort commuter/shopping carts. Nissan will even loan you a petrol/diesel car for up to two weeks per year *for free* if you want to take a longer journey, so they totally acknowledge this... Fuel cells and/or hot swap batteries would be a great concept, but we're a way off either of those being on the road. Just getting to the point of having ONE standard motorway fast charger would be good enough and they can't even agree on that... drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Mnyb wrote: > OT If I could afford a model s I would get one , just waiting to see > what model 3 or other electrical cars will be at in a couple of years .. > IMO I think fossil fuel cars is the new CRT TV I would not buy one new > it's worth 50$ on eBay in a couple of years . > I think we are at the brink of a paradigm shift regarding cars . We have all grown up expecting to pull into a filling station and be on our way in a few minutes. So the paradigm shift needed for electric cars to become mainstream is the discovery of some way to recharge them very quickly. And that isn't ever going to happen: the Tesla S battery pack is 60kWh, so if you want to recharge that in, say, 5 mins, you need to feed it at 720 kW (assuming 100% efficiency) - utterly unrealistic. I see only two practical alternatives to the internal combustion engine: 1. All the manufacturers of electric vehicles standardise on a quick-swap battery pack design so that you can arrive at a filling station and exchange your empty battery pack for a pre-charged one. 2. Hydrogen-powered fuel cells. (This one gets my vote) Both options require a massive investment in new equipment at filling stations. It's going to be a long, slow process. In the meantime, electric cars will be limited to things like commuting and shopping. Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > Many million dollar supercars are bettered, in practical performance and > all standard measurable metrics, by a $85k Tesla Model S. People still > buy supercars. Except possibly top speed ( who no sane person ever uses ) Paganis people buy to get a bespoke hand built very special car , there's is no metrics anymore there , just look and feel again. Cars is maybe not a good analogy or yes it migth be ? there is very much an emotional and design thing , petrolheads moan about the noise cars make ? Just look at any modern even budget cars , they are all very designed .,living proof that the economical theory about consumer making rational decisions is wrong . OT If I could afford a model s I would get one , just waiting to see what model 3 or other electrical cars will be at in a couple of years .. IMO I think fossil fuel cars is the new CRT TV I would not buy one new it's worth 50$ on eBay in a couple of years . I think we are at the brink of a paradigm shift regarding cars . Even more OT about the irrational side of all of us . The Nissan Leaf would be a rational choice for an electric car , but it is so ugly that I rather order my razor and cyanid pizza now :) Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Many million dollar supercars are bettered, in practical performance terms by a $85k Tesla Model S. People still buy supercars. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Supercars however overpriced and impractical they are , has some performance advantages . If your koenigsegg or pagani performed just like a Honda Civic , then the choice would be as irrational as jewelry cables ? Actual jewelry is deliberately irrational and that's ok :) it's pure look and feel and no one pretends otherwise . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
arnyk wrote: > > I've never had that problem, and over the years I've used all sorts of > bottom-of-the-barrel cables including the ones that were in the box with > the new gear I bought. It's all personal choice. Myself, while I don't see the point of cables that cost more than the equipment they are connected to, I also must admit it doesn't *feel* right to attach standard thin black-white-red cables with cheap tin connectors to my little audio shrine. I don't go overboard (my choices are in my sig). I think I spent $700 on speaker cables and never more than $400 on XLR interconnects, and I always try to minimize the amount of gear. That's just a personal philosophy thing. It *feels* better knowing the connections are solid and shielded effectively. The conductivity of the cable is unlikely to make a difference unless someone tries to "fine tune" cable design to introduce (IMHO undesirable) amounts of inductance or capacitance to tune the sound. I am not claiming at all there's any science to my preference for slightly upgraded cables. It just makes me feel better, hence it's money well spent (and it's not like I ruined myself buying it). ...pablo Server: Virtual Machine (on VMware Workstation 12) running Ubuntu 16.04 + LMS 7.9 System: SB Touch --optical->- Benchmark DAC2HGC --AnalysisPlus Oval Copper XLR->- NAD M22 Power Amp --AnalysisPlus Black Mesh Oval->- Totem Element Fire Other Rooms: 2x SB Boom; 1x SB Radio; 1x SB Classic-> NAD D7050 -> Totem DreamCatcher + Velodyne Minivee Sub Computer audio: workstation --USB->- audioengine D1 -> Grado PS500e/Shure 1540 pablolie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3816 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > Actually it's you who keeps talking about it "AK", > I see serious memory problems in play, since I only mentioned the problem of cheap cables damaging gear after you introduced the idea. Apparently, when you destroyed that valuable piece of gear with cheap cables it made quite an impression on you. I've never had that problem, and over the years I've used all sorts of bottom-of-the-barrel cables including the ones that were in the box with the new gear I bought. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > I'm all for arguing against hifi vendors and magazines misrepresenting > products (such as the appalling nonsense regarding a certain company's > power lead demos that was discussed a few weeks ago), but I don't see a > need to beat up normal forum members. I think the "beating up" isn't really related to subjective preferences (which we all have), but unsubstantiated claims about blind listening tests (and then backing out when questioned about it), and the "there is no objective truth" claims, that most definitely should be at least up to debate. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Julf wrote: > Yes, you are in the minority, as the rest of us pointed out that as long > as the cables don't have any obvious defects, they don't actually change > the sound in a physical sense. Whatever happens in your head is a > different story. I would agree that the viewpoint discussed is a minority amongst active posters on -this- forum, but I suspect a majority in the population at large. I take the point about most cables being "unproveably different", but for the majority of people I suspect there is no room for absolute objectivity and many entirely subjective and even non-performance related criteria come first when choosing what product to buy. A lot of the time it's as simple as "what do they have in stock when I need something?". I'm all for arguing against hifi vendors and magazines misrepresenting products (such as the appalling nonsense regarding a certain company's power lead demos that was discussed a few weeks ago), but I don't see a need to beat up normal forum members. If the intent is to help people to change their views this is not the most effective way of doing it. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
rkrug01 wrote: > There is no absolute objectivity - just different degrees of > subjectivity. > > If you want absolute answers, you are lost - there is no absolute truth. So 2 + 2 = 5 is just as valid a viewpoint as 2 + 2 = 4? I would love to know how you design electronics. "What voltage does this circuit need?" "Well, it depends on your point of view" "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Hificricketboy wrote: > Who said anything about hifi magazine reviews? There are loads of > reviews written by real people on the Internet who aren't paid by > manufacturers. Ah, yes. If it is on the net, it must be true. :) > Anyway enough trolling chaps. You're welcome to your views and you > should respect those of others. We respect all the different views, and realize that subjective tastes differ. But some things aren't up to taste. If someone claims 2 + 2 is 5, should we just go, "yes, that is a valid view". > The OP asked whether it was worth buying alternative interconnects and > recommendations. You can argue either way but so far I think I'm in the > minority as I suggested where and even a possible cable that he could > have access to in the UK. Yes, you are in the minority, as the rest of us pointed out that as long as the cables don't have any obvious defects, they don't actually change the sound in a physical sense. Whatever happens in your head is a different story. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
rkrug01 wrote: > > Do you know the question: "Is your green my red?"? The same with audio. > There is no "perfect" sound which sounds "brilliant " for everybody. > And if I ask here, I am expecting subjective answers which help me to > build my own subjective opinion. Red, Stop! Green, Go! Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Le mercredi 22 juin 2016, Wombat a écrit : > > Julf wrote: > > Blind or sighted? > Hificricketboy wrote: > > I've done both... > I am still interested in your blind testing methology that leads to your > advise for the OP. > > > There is no absolute objectivity - just different degrees of subjectivity. If you want absolute answers, you are lost - there is no absolute truth. Do you know the question: "Is your green my red?"? The same with audio. There is no "perfect" sound which sounds "brilliant " for everybody. And if I ask here, I am expecting subjective answers which help me to build my own subjective opinion. > Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA > monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers > > Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 > View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 > > ___ > audiophiles mailing list > audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com > http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles > -- Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany) Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology Stellenbosch University South Africa Tel : +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44 Cell: +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98 Fax (F): +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44 Fax (D):+49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44 email: rai...@krugs.de Skype: RMkrug ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Julf wrote: > Blind or sighted? Hificricketboy wrote: > I've done both... I am still interested in your blind testing methology that leads to your advise for the OP. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Julf wrote: > As Wombat hinted at, hi-fi magazines make their money from advertisers > (subscription fees usually barely cover postage). How long would a hi-fi > mag that reported "this expensive cable made no difference to our > system" survive? I do feel sorry for hi-fi reviewers that have to come > up with flowery language day in and day out to describe supposed > differences. > > > > What criteria and parameters do you look at? > > > > But do you use *only* your ears, or do you allow expectation bias to > affect your listening? As they say, "you hear what you believe", unless > in well-controlled, double-blind listening tests. > > > > Nothing wrong with subjective preferences. Who said anything about hifi magazine reviews? There are loads of reviews written by real people on the Internet who aren't paid by manufacturers. Anyway enough trolling chaps. You're welcome to your views and you should respect those of others. The OP asked whether it was worth buying alternative interconnects and recommendations. You can argue either way but so far I think I'm in the minority as I suggested where and even a possible cable that he could have access to in the UK. Hificricketboy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63733 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
arnyk wrote: > Obviously, "Drmatt" you are not aware of these options since you keep > talking about cables being stuck and not removable without damaging the > equipment. Actually it's you who keeps talking about it "AK", I only mentioned it in passing to demonstrate that -some- cables may be not fit for purpose due to excessively cheap or poor construction. You expanded this such that you could attempt use it to make judgements about my capabilities to operate hifi gear, which is a stretch for anyone, let alone someone I never even met and who doesn't even know the story to which I refer. > Not at all. The idea that the equipment was valuable was based on a > reasonable presumption that you weren't talking about audio gear that is > cheap junk. The issue of the equipment being permanently ruined is 100% > your invention. Good to see an agreement that -presumptions- were made about things that were not said in my message, then ultimately commented on, and yet there is still a defensive response when learning that those presumptions are wrong. > What to say about statements that someone makes up out of whole cloth, > ascribes them to someone else, and then makes a big show of taking > exception to them, such as these? I can't seriously recommend that you > bite your tongue "drmatt" because of all the serious harm that could do > to your person. Trust me, I'm a doctor. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > Apparently some people's internet connection translates the characters > "30" into the characters "100". I would talk to my ISP in this scenario > about the strange audiophile-grade filtering they are applying to my > bits. Not at all. I simply looked up the current pricing for the current model of the cable. It is a common strategy of magic cable advocates to cite low used or obsolete product prices that are usually based on private transactions and are therefore untraceable. When the victim actually trys to follow through on the false advice, even more money disappears from his pocket. The question of what actual performance advantages this overpriced product has seems to being danced about endlessly. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > Nothing wrong with "the person"'s competence Mr K. > RCA cables have approximately symmetrical insertion/removal force levels because they generally lack any provision for latching. That mean that if the force required for removal is so high that it is impossible to remove without damaging the equipment, then excessive force was probably needed to insert it. An obvious strategy for safe usage of RCA cables quickly evolves to those with common sense - don't use a cable that requires excessive force to insert. Furthermore, if a cable becomes stuck in a socket any person who is a little handy with the proper tools can remove the cable without damaging the audio gear the cable was plugged into. Sometimes just a little shot of contract cleaner/lubricant will suffice. In other cases some light metal working tools can be used to remove the offending cable. Obviously, "Drmatt" you are not aware of these options since you keep talking about cables being stuck and not removable without damaging the equipment. > > Nor was there a statement about the value of any such equipment or > whether it was permanently ruined, > None needed. I did say that the equipment was valuable. If the equipment is not valuable, then why all the hand-wringing about ruining it? Are you just making this up as you go along to get some attention? I never said that the equipment was permanently ruined - that's another one of your fantasies. > > those both appear to be your own little ideas. > Not at all. The idea that the equipment was valuable was based on a reasonable presumption that you weren't talking about audio gear that is cheap junk. The issue of the equipment being permanently ruined is 100% your invention. > > Suggest a little bit more biting of the tongue occasionally because as > usual the comment above comes across as if baiting for a fight. What to say about statements that someone makes up out of whole cloth, ascribes them to someone else, and then makes a big show of taking exception to them, such as these? I can't seriously recommend that you bite your tongue "drmatt" because of all the serious harm that could do to your person. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
arnyk wrote: > Why pay almost 100 pounds for a new audio cable? Apparently some people's internet connection translates the characters "30" into the characters "100". I would talk to my ISP in this scenario about the strange audiophile-grade filtering they are applying to my bits. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
arnyk wrote: > Looks like it is so easy that you failed to even try. I refer your honour to my previous post. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Hificricketboy wrote: > Here's and example of a well designed cable that isn't going to break > the bank... > http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?t=135731 Why pay almost 100 pounds for a new audio cable? arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > Easy to contradict fantasies you made up. Don't need qualifications for > that... Looks like it is so easy that you failed to even try. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Hificricketboy wrote: > I tend to read reviews a lot As Wombat hinted at, hi-fi magazines make their money from advertisers (subscription fees usually barely cover postage). How long would a hi-fi mag that reported "this expensive cable made no difference to our system" survive? I do feel sorry for hi-fi reviewers that have to come up with flowery language day in and day out to describe supposed differences. > and sometimes manufacturers information to determine if a cable is > suitable (of a good design). What criteria and parameters do you look at? > I then use my ears. But do you use *only* your ears, or do you allow expectation bias to affect your listening? As they say, "you hear what you believe", unless in well-controlled, double-blind listening tests. > But then I use valve amps which no doubt measure terribly but sound > fantastic, to my ears. Nothing wrong with subjective preferences. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
arnyk wrote: > Please cite your qualifications for being credible while contradicting > me. ;-) Easy to contradict fantasies you made up. Don't need qualifications for that... drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
The good old review me and i'll advertize is a working classic. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
I tend to read reviews a lot and sometimes manufacturers information to determine if a cable is suitable (of a good design). I then use my ears. As I don't listen to music with a microphone and/or oscilloscope I've found they are the best way. But then I use valve amps which no doubt measure terribly but sound fantastic, to my ears. So you use after market cables as I do. What's the issue? Hificricketboy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63733 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Hificricketboy wrote: > > What do you define as 'decent'. Or 'high end'? > I don't. Instead, I try to avoid using vague words. > > None of my gear came with interconnects as I got most of it secondhand > from various fora. I bought suitable alternatives that meet my > requirements. > Isn't that what you say you've done? Please describe the technical means that you used to validate your cable choices. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
drmatt wrote: > Nothing wrong with "the person"'s competence Mr K. > Please cite your qualifications for being credible while contradicting me. ;-) arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
cliveb wrote: > You want decent quality sensibly priced cables in the UK? Try here: > http://www.kenable.co.uk/ Thanks, will take a look. I have been mostly buying used branded stuff off eBay in the past few years whenever I needed something. (Which wasn't often to be fair.) Have used Tandy cables in the past, long time ago now. For digital stuff I like to buy whatever is the cheapest from CPC.. they have some really cool position-memory self supporting HDMI cables so they don't put any weight whatsoever on the sockets for a couple of quid each. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
arnyk wrote: > I mostly use professional interconnects with TRS or XLR connectors that > run about $6 each. Just gonna leave this here... drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
arnyk wrote: > If this actually happened, it seems reasonable to question the > competence of the person ruining all of that valuable equipment. Do you > think that it might be possible that there are ways to remove RCA plugs > from equipment, even if they are excessively tight? Nothing wrong with "the person"'s competence Mr K. Nor was there a statement about the value of any such equipment or whether it was permanently ruined, those both appear to be your own little ideas. Suggest a little bit more biting of the tongue occasionally because as usual the comment above comes across as if baiting for a fight. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
I apologise for confusing a post from DrMatt as yours. He mentioned the professional cables. That's where my confusion ends. What do you define as 'decent'. Or 'high end'? None of my gear came with interconnects as I got most of it secondhand from various fora. I bought suitable alternatives that meet my requirements. Isn't that what you say you've done? Hificricketboy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63733 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Interconnects and Power leads. Snake Oil?
Hificricketboy wrote: > I'm a bit confused tbh. > I'll grant you that, because the following statement is obviously something that you made up, yet you attribute ifs findings to me. > > You're telling everyone that you don't use the free cables that come > with kit > Never said that. In fact I gave an example of using cables that I purchased separately. > > but use professional cables and terminations. > But I never said that to the exclusion of using cables that came in the same box as the components. Very imaginative of you! > > So why don't you use the cheapo cables that came in the box with your > streamer/ CD player or whatever? > But I do use the cables that came with the gear when its appropriate. In my current system the lengths of the cables don't allow using the shorties that came with the gear. Furthermore, most of the gear did not come with any cables at all. > > You seem to be confusing me with someone advocating hi end cables. I'm > not. > High End is usually a very poorly defined phrase. One man's high end is another man's mid-fi or entry level. Please quote me using that term in the recent discussion before you hold me responsible for using it. > > I buy cables of decent build quality, cheaply. > Decent is a very poorly defined word. One man's decent end is another man's mid-fi or entry level. Please quote me using that term in the recent discussion before you hold me responsible for using it. > > It sounds like you've done that from a different route. I think you often read what you want to read, and not necessarily what I actually posted. There are many who think that many audiphiles live in a sort of la-la-land, where things are what they imagine them to be. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=105775 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
