[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: power supply upgrade redux
Try here: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30703 TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31416 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
This thread has been unlocked at the request of some posters to allow them to edit their posts. Please do not make any new posts. New posts will be removed and the poster banned. Thank you, Dean -- dean dean's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Due to the number of reported posts and complaints, we're locking this thread. This is the first time we've had to do this on the forum, I hope it's the last. Posters: Please keep on topic and stop the personal attacks. The next time we get into this situation, we'll be banning users, first temporarily, then permanently. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
highdudgeon Wrote: > Incidentally, I would like to clarify something: > > Incidentally, I met and fell for my wife, at first sight, in a crowd of > around 40,000. Was the crowd of 40,000, blindfolded? -- aberdeencomponents aberdeencomponents's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
highdudgeon Wrote: > How sad for you (Aberdeen) that you must stoop to such poor logic and > insult. George, You should look at yourself in the mirror. The way you send foul mouthed, harrassing PM's, and emails, to others. Thats right George, I know you more than you think. One thing I hate is phoney people, like you. Slim Devices to Ban you from these forums. -- aberdeencomponents aberdeencomponents's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
ezkcdude Wrote: > If someone who backs these PSU mods/tweaks would just show some > oscilloscope tracings, I, for one, would be happy! If it reduces noise, > just run a sin wave through the SB3 and measure the outputs, and prove > it to us, once and for all.I've posted these J-test results before, and the > one person who commented clearly didn't understand them at all! But here goes - if it makes you happy. (It's the relative that counts btw - the absolute is not 'absolute') http://www.at-view.co.uk/sb2_jitter.htm -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
I thought that I would cross post this for your amusment. < I've had some time to evaluate the Black Sand Silver Reference Power Cord. I'm in awe! Folks this is a great power cord. My Signal Cable Magic Power Cord can't compete with this cord. The Signal Cable Power Cord definately offers increased performance over standard power cords, however, the Black Sand Silver Reference is a significant upgrade like modifiying a worthy component. The most significant attribute of the Silver Reference is PRAT. I mean seriously intoxicating PRAT!!! The background is so black its totally absent. The cable flows naturally with increased clarity and offers up alot of details in tracks I've never noticed before. Its PRATTY nature is tonally correct, especially were bass is concerned. YOU WON'T BELIEVE WHAT IT DOES WITH BASS NOTES! Unbelievably real! The soundstage is more coherent with excellent spacial seperation. Depth of stage is more extended as well as mids and highs. Male and female voices give me goose bumps. Listening to various tracks on "KEM ALBUM II", I hear KEM taking breaths between notes as he harmonizing his Al Jarreau like romantic lyrics. I never heard those details prior to the Silver Ref. power cords. And when listening to Lizz Wright's "Dreaming Wide Awake", I was never as caputured by the seductiveness of her buttery voice. The Silver Reference MKIII Power cord gets my highest recommendation because it brings you much closer to the real thing. I can't imagine a better power cord. If they are still available on audiogon, I would run and try get them at reduced prices before its too late.> -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Incidentally, I would like to clarify something: I hardly believe all products should be subjected to double-blind testing. An obvious case is speakers. Speakers are highly personal, vary wildly in their appropriateness for different rooms, and, by gosh, they even look different. It is instructive, however, to have good reviews that include measurements and comparisons. These, in addition to listening tests, can help us go in a preferred direction. I love my speakers and think they are marvelous; however, they certainly wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea. And, if I had to move into a smaller room, they would be gone in a heartbeat. Now, where I do think double-blind testing is of value are the areas of electronics and more ephemeral objects like cables. From power supplies to amps to cables, we get gobs of reviews filled with enough elusive adjectives to make a wine magazine blush. And then there matter of marketing hype: amps with damping factors of 8000 having more bass impact than one with a factor of 400 (do the math; there is not much of a difference, when you take the entire system into account); minuscule (and irrelevant) distortion figures and s/n, etc. Okay, that's amplifiers. But, when you move into the world of power cords, cables, tweaks ranging from bybee silliness to mpingo disks to whatever, including some good tweaks, cables, etc., you're now in a rarefied zone. These items are expensive. They are highly touted by manufacturers, some devoted users (Tice Clock, anyone?); they can be very expensive; and the placebo effect is perhaps at its worst. Why? Because the system has been built...and, without the need for more big boxes and such, the user is now searching for that special thing that with take him or her to audio nirvana. This is a powerful force. This is not made up. Medical studies don't make this up. So, what to do? Have a more consumer-friendly magazine or group of audiophiles and dealers try out the various competing power supplies under these conditions. Try out cables, power supplies, and other tweaks under similar conditions. I mean, I would really love to see this happen. It would be fun, instructive, and would shine brightly on those who participate, whatever the outcome. It would not shine highly on those that don't. I think we can take it for granted, given the defensiveness, that "maui mods" would slither off into the world of snake oil and secrecy. -- highdudgeon SB3, Lavry DA10, Sony DVP 555es, Bel Canto Pre2, Carver Sunfire, Rane DEQ60L, Harbeth Monitor 40s, ACI Force subs highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
aberdeencomponents Wrote: > Hi Patrick, You should know we do not need to spam, any last thing I > need to do is Advertise, especially here. I can not stop someone from > posting information, that was sent personally to them, or taken off my > forum. The unit was made as per my 200+ customer requests. And is made > for my existing customers ONLY. > In other words, If YOU wanted one, sorry not available. > > For the people on the forum, that supports, thank you. > For the Pencil necked geeks, it is apparent you don't have people who > appreciate your work. Everyone is not like you, who can DIY. > There is several who would like your work/product, but are too selfish > and snobby to produce such desired product for others. > But yet have time to criticize others or doing so. But yet what can we > expect from these pencil necked text book reading geeks? > > Then you have Highdudgeon who believes his decision making of > purchasing product , should be done by attendance of a large group of > people, blindfolded. Is this how you buy a car, your clothes? Is this > how you choose your wife? If your not capable of making your own > decisions, why bother voicing your own opinions on these forums?? > shouldn't it be from your blind decision makers? or are they to blind > to type? > > AP It is "Patrik" with no "c", and "Floding" with a single "o". -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
ezkcdude Wrote: > If someone who backs these PSU mods/tweaks would just show some > oscilloscope tracings, I, for one, would be happy! If it reduces noise, > just run a sin wave through the SB3 and measure the outputs, and prove > it to us, once and for all. Nice idea. Add to that: provide additional proof, say with academic backing, that such differences as might exist would actually be audible, to say nothing of dramatic. -- highdudgeon SB3, Lavry DA10, Sony DVP 555es, Bel Canto Pre2, Carver Sunfire, Rane DEQ60L, Harbeth Monitor 40s, ACI Force subs highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
If someone who backs these PSU mods/tweaks would just show some oscilloscope tracings, I, for one, would be happy! If it reduces noise, just run a sin wave through the SB3 and measure the outputs, and prove it to us, once and for all. -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)->Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier->Speltz anti-cables->DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10" subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
aberdeencomponents Wrote: > Hi Patrick, You should know we do not need to spam, any last thing I > need to do is Advertise, especially here. I can not stop someone from > posting information, that was sent personally to them, or taken off my > forum. The unit was made as per my 200+ customer requests. And is made > for my existing customers ONLY. > In other words, If YOU wanted one, sorry not available. > > For the people on the forum, that supports, thank you. > For the Pencil necked geeks, it is apparent you don't have people who > appreciate your work. Everyone is not like you, who can DIY. > There is several who would like your work/product, but are too selfish > and snobby to produce such desired product for others. > But yet have time to criticize others or doing so. But yet what can we > expect from these pencil necked text book reading geeks? > > Then you have Highdudgeon who believes his decision making of > purchasing product , should be done by attendance of a large group of > people, blindfolded. Is this how you buy a car, your clothes? Is this > how you choose your wife? If your not capable of making your own > decisions, why bother voicing your own opinions on these forums?? > shouldn't it be from your blind decision makers? or are they to blind > to type? > > AP This is truly priceless, down to the horrid grammar, wildly flawed logic, insulting, playground language, and general lashing out at everyone. Reminds me of one or two other modders on this forum, but worse. Alas. How people like this make a living is just beyond me. Reporting this to SD isn't the worst idea... -- highdudgeon SB3, Lavry DA10, Sony DVP 555es, Bel Canto Pre2, Carver Sunfire, Rane DEQ60L, Harbeth Monitor 40s, ACI Force subs highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
P Floding Wrote: > Why? > If you post here you should reply here as well. Otherwise it is just > plain advertising, a.k.a SPAM. > I'm sure everyone here wants to know the answers, regardless of plans > to buy or not. > Regards Hi Patrick, You should know we do not need to spam, any last thing I need to do is Advertise, especially here. I can not stop someone from posting information, that was sent personally to them, or taken off my forum. The unit was made as per my 200+ customer requests. And is made for my existing customers ONLY. In other words, If YOU wanted one, sorry not available. For the people on the forum, that supports, thank you. For the Pencil necked geeks, it is apparent you don't have people who appreciate your work. Everyone is not like you, who can DIY. There is several who would like your work/product, but are too selfish and snobby to produce such desired product for others. But yet have time to criticize others or doing so. But yet what can we expect from these pencil necked text book reading geeks? Then you have Highdudgeon who believes his decision making of purchasing product , should be done by attendance of a large group of people, blindfolded. Is this how you buy a car, your clothes? Is this how you choose your wife? If your not capable of making your own decisions, why bother voicing your own opinions on these forums?? shouldn't it be from your blind decision makers? or are they to blind to type? AP -- aberdeencomponents aberdeencomponents's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
rajacat Wrote: > It was not a personal attack but just a statement that unless a person's > opinion is based on actual experience it must be regarded accordingly. > You seem to regard many in the audiophile cottage industry as just > hucksters but offer no proof just unsubstantiated opinions. Actually, it was a personal attack. You stated that -- and without knowing -- that I had probably not tried any of these things. Well, in almost thirty years of audiophile experience, you can rest assured that I have. Moreover, my opinion of these PS mods is quite often echoed by engineers -- they make little or no difference, except to the pocket book of the purchaser and bank account of the seller. So, Rajacat, you show ME a verifiable, controlled, double-blind test of these things. Then, describe, in laymans and in technical terms, why they would make an audible difference. The burden of proof, and, alas, of civility, is on you. After all, you're the one touting the object... -- highdudgeon SB3, Lavry DA10, Sony DVP 555es, Bel Canto Pre2, Carver Sunfire, Rane DEQ60L, Harbeth Monitor 40s, ACI Force subs highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
highdudgeon Wrote: > In fact, I have - several times. I've never purchased them because, by > and and large, I don't buy into these things any more than I buy into > kilo-buck powercords. > > However, friends of mine who are into all sorts of tweaking have quite > a few of these things for various devices. I've convinced more than > one that it is an exercise in futility and spending money. I've not > convinced others, who, despite being dear friends, and with whom I can > say these things, tend to be a bit irrational about audio. > > But, hey, thanks for the personal attack on someone you don't know. > Always speaks oodles about character. It was not a personal attack but just a statement that unless a person's opinion is based on actual experience it must be regarded accordingly. You seem to regard many in the audiophile cottage industry as just hucksters but offer no proof just unsubstantiated opinions. -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
opaqueice Wrote: > I can't resist taking up the gauntlet on this one. The case of diamonds > is a fascinating one (from the point of view of human psychology and of > the influence of corporations). "Synthetic" diamonds (that is, > diamonds which are made in a lab) are worth less than "natural" > (meaning mined) diamonds, even though they are more perfect. Natural > diamonds always have some flaws, and (rather naturally) the fewer flaws > they have the more they are worth. On the other hand the synthetics are > typically flawless, and yet are worth far less. Diamond manufacturers > are learning how to introduce imperfections, and the results are > getting harder and harder to distinguish from the mined diamonds. > > It's an extremely bizarre situation, and one on which many comments > have been made, contrary to your assertion...Poetic license! -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
opaqueice Wrote: > I couldn't agree more. Although in the case of these power supplies I'd > be happy if even one person could consistently tell the difference in a > series of AB/XY blind tests... Exactly. The placebo effect is tremendous. And, money does not buy happiness. A buddy of mine purchased a set of very expensive GamuT speakers -- very expensive. They were touted as wide dispersion speakers designed for off-axis listening, which immediately put me on alert. Anyway, I helped set them up and, within minutes, we both agreed that they sucked. Gorgeous, overbuilt, insanely nice as furniture -- but just awful. Fortunately, this is a guy largely immune to the placebo effect. I mean, think seriously about this power supply business: people are spending two, perhaps, now with the maui thing, thee times the cost of a Squeezebox on a damned power supply. Strangely, the stock power supply works pretty well. I bought an Elpac, just for curiosity, and there was no difference. Want a difference? Use a really nice DAC and maybe upgrade your speakers. -- highdudgeon SB3, Lavry DA10, Sony DVP 555es, Bel Canto Pre2, Carver Sunfire, Rane DEQ60L, Harbeth Monitor 40s, ACI Force subs highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
rajacat Wrote: > Have you tried any of these audiophile grade power supplies? Probably > not, therefore it seems that you are not talking with the benefit of > experience, so your opinion is just a guess and really not worth much. In fact, I have - several times. I've never purchased them because, by and and large, I don't buy into these things any more than I buy into kilo-buck powercords. However, friends of mine who are into all sorts of tweaking have quite a few of these things for various devices. I've convinced more than one that it is an exercise in futility and spending money. I've not convinced others, who, despite being dear friends, and with whom I can say these things, tend to be a bit irrational about audio. But, hey, thanks for the personal attack on someone you don't know. Always speaks oodles about character. -- highdudgeon SB3, Lavry DA10, Sony DVP 555es, Bel Canto Pre2, Carver Sunfire, Rane DEQ60L, Harbeth Monitor 40s, ACI Force subs highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Patrick Dixon Wrote: > > People spend loads of money on real diamonds (rather than a piece of > glass that most of us, in a blind A/B X/Y test wouldn't ever pick), or > original art, or whatever - without comment! > I can't resist taking up the gauntlet on this one. The case of diamonds is a fascinating one (from the point of view of human psychology and of the influence of corporations). "Synthetic" diamonds (that is, diamonds which are made in a lab) are worth less than "natural" (meaning mined) diamonds, even though they are more perfect. Natural diamonds always have some flaws, and (rather naturally) the fewer flaws they have the more they are worth. On the other hand the synthetics are typically flawless, and yet are worth far less. Diamond manufacturers are learning how to introduce imperfections, and the results are getting harder and harder to distinguish from the mined diamonds. It's an extremely bizarre situation, and one on which many comments have been made, contrary to your assertion... -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Patrick Dixon Wrote: > Isn't it amazing how much bile is generated because some people get some > enjoyment out of a difference that they hear from some piece of audio > equipment, and which they then choose to spend their money on? > > People spend loads of money on real diamonds (rather than a piece of > glass that most of us, in a blind A/B X/Y test wouldn't ever pick), or > original art, or whatever - without comment! > > Strange ... Great post! -- mauidan mauidan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1679 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
opaqueice Wrote: > I haven't tried it - you don't need to speculate! - because I'm > skeptical it makes a difference. I'm skeptical for several reasons, > but primarily because the only difference it can possibly make (as far > as I know, please correct me if I'm wrong) to the digital outputs > (which I'm using) is changing the jitter spectrum, but the measured > jitter with the stock walwart is extraordinarily low already - almost > certainly below the level of audibility. However, I'd happily change > my mind in view of some contrary evidence. > > Please do report back on the difference. I think it's important to > remember that humans are really very good at noticing differences when > they expect to, even if none exist. So if you don't mind, when you do > this please have someone swap out the power supplies and see if you can > consistently tell the difference blind (ideally, do an ABX test, and do > it at least 10-12 times). I am not able to take the time to set up an experiment that will satisfy all the skeptics, that would be impossible. Why don't you go over to the Audio Circles http://www.audiocircle.com/ and do a search on SB power supplies. There have been some A/B tests done on various PS that you might find interesting. I have found that the Audio Circles is the most erudite and helpful of any of the audio forums. -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Patrick Dixon Wrote: > Isn't it amazing how much bile is generated because some people get some > enjoyment out of a difference that they hear from some piece of audio > equipment, and which they then choose to spend their money on? > > I hadn't noticed much bile here, just healthy skepticism. I certainly hope this doesn't degenerate into a flame war - I think this discussion is worth having. Ultimately, if one believes there's a difference, one will probably hear one, in which case one will enjoy one's music more - great! Personally, I'm a skeptic by nature, and I find it difficult to believe these things absent some evidence, particularly when it's essentially impossible for a difference to exist (as in the case of comparing two lossless codecs). In the case of the power supply, things are less clear-cut, and therefore more interesting. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
rajacat Wrote: > I would speculate that most of the posters here have not tried any > "improvements" to the power supply so they are just venting their > cynicism and do not speak from any useful experience. That said, I have > bought a cheap ($2.50) linear power supply that requires a bit of > soldering to work with the SB3. I will report back on its effect on the > sound quality of my system. Others using the same power supply have > reported obvious audible improvements in SQ. It must be clear to even > the most fashionably cynical that they have no financial interest in > lying to this forum. I haven't tried it - you don't need to speculate! - because I'm skeptical it makes a difference. I'm skeptical for several reasons, but primarily because the only difference it can possibly make (as far as I know, please correct me if I'm wrong) to the digital outputs (which I'm using) is changing the jitter spectrum, but the measured jitter with the stock walwart is extraordinarily low already - almost certainly below the level of audibility. However, I'd happily change my mind in view of some contrary evidence. Please do report back on the difference. I think it's important to remember that humans are really very good at noticing differences when they expect to, even if none exist. So if you don't mind, when you do this please have someone swap out the power supplies and see if you can consistently tell the difference blind (ideally, do an ABX test, and do it at least 10-12 times). -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
I have no opinion on that issue because I have not tried anything other than EAC>FLAC. I would respect the opinions of the skeptics more if they actually have had some experience with linear vs switching power supplies and not just use the forum for their bile. -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
snarlydwarf Wrote: > > When people argue that there is a difference in sound between lossless > codecs (which happens all the time here), where do you fall?I say: "Well I haven't heard it, but if you can, then good for you". -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Or they are responding to a general arrogance ("Well, there is a
difference, your system is just not revealing enough, your ears are not
as well trained as mine are" type comments) that permeats some posts.
Skepticism isn't the same as cynicism.
When people argue that there is a difference in sound between lossless
codecs (which happens all the time here), where do you fall?
--
snarlydwarf
snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844
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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Isn't it amazing how much bile is generated because some people get some enjoyment out of a difference that they hear from some piece of audio equipment, and which they then choose to spend their money on? People spend loads of money on real diamonds (rather than a piece of glass that most of us, in a blind A/B X/Y test wouldn't ever pick), or original art, or whatever - without comment! Strange ... -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
I would speculate that most of the posters here have not tried any "improvements" to the power supply so they are just venting their cynicism and do not speak from any useful experience. That said, I have bought a cheap ($2.50) linear power supply that requires a bit of soldering to work with the SB3. I will report back on its effect on the sound quality of my system. Others using the same power supply have reported obvious audible improvements in SQ. It must be clear to even the most fashionably cynical that they have no financial interest in lying to this forum. -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
highdudgeon Wrote: > I would love -- really love -- to see all these exorbitantly-priced > power supply builders to submit their products, along with the > standard-issue or Elpac variety supplies, for a regulated double-blind > test involving enough listeners with such qualities as to establish > statistical significance. > > I couldn't agree more. Although in the case of these power supplies I'd be happy if even one person could consistently tell the difference in a series of AB/XY blind tests... -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Robin Bowes Wrote: > > Do you understand *any* of the details of the specification? > R. I am an engineer. I understand specs when I see them. There were no specs except that it works with 110 or 220 VAC in. The rest was just fluff. TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
mauidan Wrote: > > 10 conductor FLAT RIBBON DIRECTIONAL Umbilical cord using TEFLON > and .99% COPPER/SILVER conductors. This isn't flame bait like my last post, but wouldn't a shorter wire in a twist/braid arrangement reject more interference? -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
tyler_durden wrote: > > What you see as specs and facts are to the more astute eye not much > more than a bunch of marketing BS. Unfortunately, you seem to think you have an astute eye. Do you understand *any* of the details of the specification? For example... > > 13,200 uF, of SANYO WX/AX capacitance. > > Big deal. Do you know why lots of capacitance is good? > > Ultra Fast HEXFREDS diode bridge. > > Big deal. Do you know why HEXFREDS are good in a PS? > > Input Snubber. > Diode bridge Snubbers. > > Big deal. Big Deal. Do you know why Snubbers are used? > > Vishay METAL film Resistors. > Vishay DOUBLE Metalized film caps. > OSCON bypasses. > Linear Technologies ULTRA LDO regulators. > > Whoopdy-doo! Please drop a few more names... > LT does make some good regulator ICs, but I have to wonder if a > discrete regulator wouldn't sound better. We all know opamps are crap, > and linear regulator ICs are full of the darned things... Opamps aren't all crap. *Some* opamps are better than others in audio circuitry. Sorry, I've got tired of this. You really don't know what you're talking about and I can't be bothered to continue. Enjoy your ignorance. Perhaps someone else can put you straight. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
aberdeencomponents Wrote: > Tyler, humm... my Dobermans name... "working overtime"? > Only thing I see is facts, and parts used. High end audio formula: get a bunch of intelligent, educated, hard working engineers to come up with a really good product that works well and performs some useful function, then watch the aftermarket morons change something easy like a power supply or line cord or add an "exotic" material here or there and and suddenly the product is 100x better... Yah, sure, you betcha! What you see as specs and facts are to the more astute eye not much more than a bunch of marketing BS. Voltage regulation is kept at 5 volts within -/+ .001% Under what conditions? This is NOT a spec. RIPPLE is no more than .003 MILLI-VOLTS. I suspect someone got a decimal place wrong here. 3 mV is more likely. 13,200 uF, of SANYO WX/AX capacitance. Big deal. Ultra Fast HEXFREDS diode bridge. Big deal. Input Snubber. Diode bridge Snubbers. Big deal. Big Deal. Vishay METAL film Resistors. Vishay DOUBLE Metalized film caps. OSCON bypasses. Linear Technologies ULTRA LDO regulators. Whoopdy-doo! Please drop a few more names... LT does make some good regulator ICs, but I have to wonder if a discrete regulator wouldn't sound better. We all know opamps are crap, and linear regulator ICs are full of the darned things... Big Ass Technology HEAT SINK. It's gotta be high-tech with a name like "big-ass"! Furutech gold or Rhodium IEC. The metal plating on the power cord socket- that's gonna make a BIG difference... Switchcraft plugs and connectors. Oh boy! Ultra BLUE power LED. You know its high-end if the LED is blue! It shows they didn't skimp on the cost (blue LEDs cost $0.15 instead of $0.05 like red ones). Small 4"wx5d"2"h BULLET PROOF extruded aluminum enclosure. Black Anodized. I heard that red anodizing sounds better. What caliber bullet? I need one that is IED proof where I live. 10 conductor FLAT RIBBON DIRECTIONAL Umbilical cord using TEFLON and .99% COPPER/SILVER conductors. Wow! Directional! They must have done a LOT of engineering on THAT! Foil Lined Dampening Material. Exclusive Aberdeen "500" material. Well, there you go! You can't argue with foil lined and "Aberdeen" damping materials, can you? 110 or 220 vac Finally some useful info! Here's what these guys did: they went into DIYAudio.com and other DIY audio nut forums, scanned the ads in Stereophile, and picked up every fad, rumor, buzzword, and low-end marketing gimmick they could find and threw it into this thing and its marketing swag. I'll bet they set a stoopid price like $500 for the thing too... And Stereophile editorials keep speculating on the reason for the ever decreasing size of the high-end industry? It is easy to see why when you aren't part of that industry. TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Someone who can put together a power supply like that, or the bolder version, should be marketing their own DACs rather than symbiotically living off the squeezebox. At least have the humility to price it lower than the SB itself. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
mauidan Wrote: > All questions about this new power supply should be directed to > mauimods.com. I've just past along the specs which were posted > on the tacthackers forum. I have no pictures other than the one I've > posted. I have not heard it, but based on the performance > of my other mauimods.com upgrades, I expect it will be excellent. > > Dan Why? If you post here you should reply here as well. Otherwise it is just plain advertising, a.k.a SPAM. I'm sure everyone here wants to know the answers, regardless of plans to buy or not. Regards -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
highdudgeon Wrote: > I would love -- really love -- to see all these exorbitantly-priced > power supply builders to submit their products, along with the > standard-issue or Elpac variety supplies, for a regulated double-blind > test involving enough listeners with such qualities as to establish > statistical significance. > > I mean, this just wouldn't be too hard to do and it would be an > opportunity to establish the product -- assuming it merits > establishment. You just need a host, a curtained set up, attendants > (off the street student types) who don't know what supply is what, > scoring sheets for the listeners, and, say, a pick of self-described > audiophiles, dealers, whatever reviewer one could find, musicians > perhaps, and "laypersons." > > Brings to mind the well-known Bay Area Audiophile Society blind test of > power cords: the ability of listeners to distinguish between stock IEC > cords and $1k+ cords was statistically insignificant. It is a real > shame -- and there is money behind this, of course -- that none of the > prominent audio magazines conduct such tests. > > Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One often hears what > one sees and pays for. Anyway, thought for the day. This was not > directed at anyone and was certainly not meant to be denigrating of any > particular product. That's what I find so cool about the Squeezebox: it > is a good product, it is well thought-out, it is designed and > manufactured with performance and budget in mind, and it outsmarts so > many far more expensive products. If Slim Devices comes out with a > gleaming stainless steel version with a five pound power supply, 24 > carat gold connectors, etc., and charges a grand or two for the thing, > hey, I wouldn't begrudge them. That's what people do in this industry. HighDUDE, If the SB is so great as you state, Why do you have an Exorbitanly price Lavery Dac? Did your "attendants" Vote for it? -- aberdeencomponents aberdeencomponents's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
tonyptony Wrote: > Couple of things. Do I read right that the output ripple will be no > worse than 3 uV? And I'm curious as to why you chose to use snubbers > across the rectifiers? They are typically neither required nor used > when soft recovery types are being used for the rectification. Tony, instead of being Mr.Critic, try it. Then you tell me. -- aberdeencomponents aberdeencomponents's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
tyler_durden Wrote: > The marketing people are working over-time on this one... > > TD Tyler, humm... my Dobermans name... "working overtime"? Only thing I see is facts, and parts used. -- aberdeencomponents aberdeencomponents's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Or he questions his own ability to be unbiased in comparison. The human mind is a wonderous thing, capable of fooling us in tons of subtle ways. If you know you switched power supplies and it sounds better, is that in your head or real? -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
highdudgeon Wrote: > I would love -- really love -- to see all these exorbitantly-priced > power supply builders to submit their products, along with the > standard-issue or Elpac variety supplies, for a regulated double-blind > test involving enough listeners with such qualities as to establish > statistical significance. > > I mean, this just wouldn't be too hard to do and it would be an > opportunity to establish the product -- assuming it merits > establishment. You just need a host, a curtained set up, attendants > (off the street student types) who don't know what supply is what, > scoring sheets for the listeners, and, say, a pick of self-described > audiophiles, dealers, whatever reviewer one could find, musicians > perhaps, and "laypersons." > > Brings to mind the well-known Bay Area Audiophile Society blind test of > power cords: the ability of listeners to distinguish between stock IEC > cords and $1k+ cords was statistically insignificant. It is a real > shame -- and there is money behind this, of course -- that none of the > prominent audio magazines conduct such tests. > > Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One often hears what > one sees and pays for. Anyway, thought for the day. This was not > directed at anyone and was certainly not meant to be denigrating of any > particular product. That's what I find so cool about the Squeezebox: it > is a good product, it is well thought-out, it is designed and > manufactured with performance and budget in mind, and it outsmarts so > many far more expensive products. If Slim Devices comes out with a > gleaming stainless steel version with a five pound power supply, 24 > carat gold connectors, etc., and charges a grand or two for the thing, > hey, I wouldn't begrudge them. That's what people do in this industry. Have you tried any of these audiophile grade power supplies? Probably not, therefore it seems that you are not talking with the benefit of experience, so your opinion is just a guess and really not worth much. -- rajacat rajacat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4156 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
I would love -- really love -- to see all these exorbitantly-priced power supply builders to submit their products, along with the standard-issue or Elpac variety supplies, for a regulated double-blind test involving enough listeners with such qualities as to establish statistical significance. I mean, this just wouldn't be too hard to do and it would be an opportunity to establish the product -- assuming it merits establishment. You just need a host, a curtained set up, attendants (off the street student types) who don't know what supply is what, scoring sheets for the listeners, and, say, a pick of self-described audiophiles, dealers, whatever reviewer one could find, musicians perhaps, and "laypersons." Brings to mind the well-known Bay Area Audiophile Society blind test of power cords: the ability of listeners to distinguish between stock IEC cords and $1k+ cords was statistically insignificant. It is a real shame -- and there is money behind this, of course -- that none of the prominent audio magazines conduct such tests. Of course, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. One often hears what one sees and pays for. Anyway, thought for the day. This was not directed at anyone and was certainly not meant to be denigrating of any particular product. -- highdudgeon SB3, Lavry DA10, Sony DVP 555es, Bel Canto Pre2, Carver Sunfire, Rane DEQ60L, Harbeth Monitor 40s, ACI Force subs highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
All questions about this new power supply should be directed to mauimods.com. I've just past along the specs which were posted on the tacthackers forum. I have no pictures other than the one I've posted. I have not heard it, but based on the performance of my other mauimods.com upgrades, I expect it will be excellent. Dan -- mauidan mauidan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1679 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
mauidan Wrote: > New SB linear power supply from mauimods.com: > Voltage regulation is kept at 5 volts within -/+ .001% > RIPPLE is no more than .003 MILLI-VOLTS. > 13,200 uF, of SANYO WX/AX capacitance. > Ultra Fast HEXFREDS diode bridge. > Input Snubber. > Diode bridge Snubbers. Couple of things. Do I read right that the output ripple will be no worse than 3 uV? And I'm curious as to why you chose to use snubbers across the rectifiers? They are typically neither required nor used when soft recovery types are being used for the rectification. -- tonyptony tonyptony's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3397 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
mauidan, Do you have any internal pictures of the ps that you can share with us? Thanks -- F-100 F-100's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4328 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
The marketing people are working over-time on this one... TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
> Small 4"wx5d"2"h BULLET PROOF extruded aluminum enclosure. What, are you planning on using it in a war zone? -- Mike Anderson 'FREE RADICAL RADIO!' (http://nvo.com/cd) Hours of free radical MP3s. Mike Anderson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1705 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
What is the current capacity? -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)->Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier->Speltz anti-cables->DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10" subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
mlihl Wrote: > Nice one! How much does it cost? > > Regards, > > Mike Mike- I don't know if Anthony has finalized the price yet, he just sent me the specs/picture. You can contact him at Mauimods.com, if you're interested. Dan -- mauidan mauidan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1679 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Nice one! How much does it cost? Regards, Mike -- mlihl mlihl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3376 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
New SB linear power supply. +---+ |Filename: MMSBPSU.JPG | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1180| +---+ -- mauidan mauidan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1679 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
OK folks, thanks for all your technical (electronics) advises but for an average joe like myself, could you tell what would be the best PS for the SB (220v). Thanks in advance -- brunodenis brunodenis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3935 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Skunk Wrote: > getting a surplus linear for $10 that will beat any SMPS you can > purchase off the shelf? Skunk, do you have a link for a surplus linear PS for $10 anyplace? Or is this something I'll have to solder myself? -- cepheid cepheid's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3845 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Regardless of your mains powered ps, at least in NYC and the Washington metropolitan area (the homes of all things corrupt, including AC power), you'll probably benefit substatially from good powerconditioning fronting your power supply. http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=26627&start=0 FWIW -- occam occam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=949 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Skunk Wrote: > Well unrelated to cleaning, I found a disconcertingly good article on > the quality of electrical power in buildings. A great read for > audiophiles, without being written by one: > http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/primer.html#sensitive > > * http://www.audiotweaks.com/diy/bobcrump_pc/page01.htm I can certainly vouch for the productivity losses! I've been battling a PC problem at work for about a week now. We think that a recent storm sent a surge through the ethernet cable (because every other connection is to a UPS), which damaged the motherboard, video card, and memory controller! It took about a week just to figure out what needed to be replaced. -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)->Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier->Speltz anti-cables->DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10" subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
P Floding Wrote: > I have high concentration isopropanol for cleaning capstan rolls and the > like, but not for contact cleaning. It has water in it, so seems less > than ideal. I was just reading about the diy bob crump PC*, and someone at the end suggested using alcohol for cleaning wire before soldering, so maybe there is some use for it- even if not as a contact treatment. Also, I had never thought about it, but twisting bare wires together with your fingers isn't such a great idea. P Floding Wrote: > Good luck with the cleaning, and let us know your findings! Well unrelated to cleaning, I found a disconcertingly good article on the quality of electrical power in buildings. A great read for audiophiles, without being written by one: http://www.copper.org/applications/electrical/pq/primer.html#sensitive * http://www.audiotweaks.com/diy/bobcrump_pc/page01.htm -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Skunk Wrote: > But don't forget to enjoy the music! (kidding) That is exactly what I am doing now with my newly built PSU. Tighter bass and cleaner S-sound on female voices is the verdict - so far. Listening to Ana Popovic and Terry Evans. (not kidding ;) Tom -- tomsi42 SqueezeBox2, Rotel RC-1070/RB-1070, dynaBel Exact. tomsi42's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2477 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
highdudgeon Wrote: > > > Incidentally, for the pure hell of it, I ordered an Alpac (sp?) linear > power supply, just to experiment. As the SB gurus predicted, there was > absolutely no difference in sound. There are just so many other > imporant things. I did hear an improvement with a linear power supply. It's most obvious through my headphone rig. highdudgeon Wrote: > Something I would like to see: AES/EBU output for digital (strongest > signal) and XLR outputs for audio (as above, allowing really long cable > runs). I wonder if anyone does and can do these mods for a reasonable > price? You can run your spdif output into one of these Behringer components (example: DEQ), and use the balanced or ABS/EBU outputs to run the long distance to your next component. -Dan -- dwc dwc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1892 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
95bcwh Wrote: > Heuer, > Have you compared the analog out from the SB3 versus the analog out > of the $10k CD player? > > Rgds > barry No. The Theta CD transport runs balanced into the Audio Synthesis DAX Discrete and has no analog outs. DAX runs balanced to the pre-amp and power amp. Biggest SB3 improvement was using the DAX. Smaller improvement using linear PSU over standard one but still worthwhile. Bear in mind this is part of a very high resolution system and the differences are fairly obvious. I use my wife as the sanity check. -- Heuer Heuer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2543 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
tyler_durden Wrote: > I didn't hear any difference, but then, I didn't pay $1k for the power > supply. That's a bit steep for a 5V 2A power supply... > > TD I'm not surprised, my "upgraded power supply" refers specificly to those built by Bolder Cables company and Red wine audio. :) -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
95bcwh Wrote: > So far, people who has listen to the Squeezebox with BOTH the upgraded > power supply and the stock power supply all concluded that the upgraded > power supply is "way better". I didn't hear any difference, but then, I didn't pay $1k for the power supply. That's a bit steep for a 5V 2A power supply... TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
I prefer the $100 route where you get a battery backup built for home theater that has individual line filters on each outlet. I also get automatic voltage regulation and ALL my toys sound and look good! Lastly, if the power fails, I get about 15 minutes worth of music until I break out the AA's. (The server is on battery backup as well, so is the fish tank for that matter). -- notanatheist notanatheist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Skunk Wrote: > Yeah, there is a two pack at rat shack with the Pro Gold included, > smaller bottles for $15. > http://www.radioshack.com/sm-deoxit-progold-twin-pack--pi-2104746.html > > Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl (or ethyl) alcohol mixed with water, used > as a topical antibacterial (on skin); or inebriation, when times are > tough... _really tough_ I'd imagine. I just read on Wikipedia the UK > equivalent is termed 'surgical spirit'. > > I often use it for removing residue of various sorts as well, but doubt > it's ideal for treating metals. I have high concentration isopropanol for cleaning capstan rolls and the like, but not for contact cleaning. It has water in it, so seems less than ideal. BTW, using -only- a cleaner, such as the "60" I mentioned, will increase the surfaces tendency to be abrasive (no lubrication) so may be detrimental in the long run. Good luck with the cleaning, and let us know your findings! (I was astonished when I first started cleaning contacts, and even more astonished when I switched to SST.) -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
ezkcdude Wrote: > Were you referring to this: > http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=341-200 Yeah, there is a two pack at rat shack with the Pro Gold included, smaller bottles for $15. http://www.radioshack.com/sm-deoxit-progold-twin-pack--pi-2104746.html Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl (or ethyl) alcohol mixed with water, used as a topical antibacterial (on skin); or inebriation, when times are tough... _really tough_ I'd imagine. I just read on Wikipedia the UK equivalent is termed 'surgical spirit'. I often use it for removing residue of various sorts as well, but doubt it's ideal for treating metals. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
Heuer Wrote: > I have a $10k CD player and the SB3 (albeit with a linear PSU costing > $80) sounds just as good when both are fed through the same external > DAC. Result is the CD player is no longer used. > > Vinyl still sounds way better than either, obviously! Heuer, Have you compared the analog out from the SB3 versus the analog out of the $10k CD player? A bit of correction on my previous posts, the $1000 "Ultimate Power Supply" is only one part of the equation. Bolder cable company will also modified the analog (and Digital) output depending on which output you're using. So the total cost of modification can be as high as $1500. I picked the cheaper route. I had my SB3 modified by Red wine audio, costed me about $480 (incl. shipping) to modify the DAC, analog output as well as battery power supply. I have not had the opportunities to compare my modded SB3 to any $10k CD player so I cannot give any feedback yet. Here's a link to another forum where they compare the SB3 sound due to different power supply: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=26627 I must emphasize that I have no affiliation with either companies and I'm not trying to sell their products. With so much raves generated on modifications, I thought spending $480 to find out the truth myself is not too ridiculous.. Rgds barry -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Skunk Wrote: > Replacing the female connectors? Would soldering the RCA leads to the > board and running wire out of the SB with high quality male RCA's on > the end be a theoretical improvement? I got the idea from the infamous > 'Enjoy The Music' Web site. Modifying the analog output stage is > another commonly suggested warranty-voiding mod. > > So far as non-invasive goes, I'm going to clean my connectors like > Pfloding mentioned. I was thinking a Caig product for budgetary > reasons, I've got some rubbing alcohol around the house, would that be > a bad idea? > > Of course room treatments, but I think my single range drivers are less > prone to reflected waves, being more of a directly radiating driver. I > would love to try a digital eq to see what I'm missing. > > You could try making a chip amp and some cheap single driver speakers. > Biggest bang for the buck and the most tinkering potential. > > But don't forget to enjoy the music! (kidding) Were you referring to this: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=341-200 -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)->Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier->Speltz anti-cables->DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10" subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Skunk Wrote: > Replacing the female connectors? Would soldering the RCA leads to the > board and running wire out of the SB with high quality male RCA's on > the end be a theoretical improvement? I got the idea from the infamous > 'Enjoy The Music' Web site. Modifying the analog output stage is > another commonly suggested warranty-voiding mod. > > So far as non-invasive goes, I'm going to clean my connectors like > Pfloding mentioned. I was thinking a Caig product for budgetary > reasons, I've got some rubbing alcohol around the house, would that be > a bad idea? > > Of course room treatments, but I think my single range drivers are less > prone to reflected waves, being more of a directly radiating driver. I > would love to try a digital eq to see what I'm missing. > > You could try making a chip amp and some cheap single driver speakers. > Biggest bang for the buck and the most tinkering potential. > > But don't forget to enjoy the music! (kidding) Not sure what rubbing alkohol is? See if you can get cheap bottles of "Kontakt 60" from KONTAKT CHEMIE (I have three kinds: "60" for cleaning, "61" for protecting, and WL for corrosion removal (which I have never used!) I haven't tried the more expensive audiophile versions, like Gold-Pro etc, etc (in tiny bottles). I just don't like the pricing of those things. (And strongly suspect it is bottled versions of the products I just mentioned.) The SST (Silver paste) is expensive, but it is not an off-the-shelf product -it has to be used with care. Example link (googled just now): http://www.canford.co.uk/commerce/item_55-101_3003346.aspx There is even a Kontakt Gold 2000 on that site... -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
RalphO Wrote: > So guys what next? Replacing the female connectors? Would soldering the RCA leads to the board and running wire out of the SB with high quality male RCA's on the end be a theoretical improvement? I got the idea from the infamous 'Enjoy The Music' Web site. Modifying the analog output stage is another commonly suggested warranty-voiding mod. So far as non-invasive goes, I'm going to clean my connectors like Pfloding mentioned. I was thinking a Caig product for budgetary reasons, I've got some rubbing alcohol around the house, would that be a bad idea? Of course room treatments, but I think my single range drivers are less prone to reflected waves, being more of a directly radiating driver. I would love to try a digital eq to see what I'm missing. You could try making a chip amp and some cheap single driver speakers. Biggest bang for the buck and the most tinkering potential. But don't forget to enjoy the music! (kidding) -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
I now also have a linear power supply. I ordered the power-one that was recommended and put it all together this weekend. Does it sound better? I think that it is too early for me to say yet but it definitely does sound different. What I can also say is that I loved every moment of soldering and putting it all together. I now realize how much I miss the pre CD times of HiFI. Playing music involved cleaning discs, aligning cartridges, adjusting the mass on the tone arm and all in pursuit of that improvement in sound. Nowadays we take the CD player out of the box and just play it and there is no possibility of tinkering with it. So I would like to thank the members of this board who have raised the whole linear power supply subject. Once again I had the chance to experiment and do something myself to improve the sound. So guys what next? -- RalphO RalphO's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3619 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
ezkcdude Wrote: > I wasn't intentionally trying to offend anyone, but I apologize > post-haste. I was just trying to correct a rather broad assertion, that > just because the power supply is switching, it must necessarily suck. And you were right for doing so, thus likely owe no apologies. I, on the other hand, started drinking a little early (St. Patty's), and owe the apology. Sorry for showing my ignorance, yet again. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
We have to be careful of these things. People talk about "veiling the high frequencies" and extended range (beyond 20khz, etc.) a great deal. What they forget is that an average 40 year old male can hear up to around 14khz, on a very good day, and that he can expect that to drop by half (7khz) in the next ten years of life. Not that a lot of music happens up there, in the first place. So, there is revealing, and then there is revealing. What I truly like about the audiophile "voodoo" crowd (great phrase) is that they instantly point out that one's system is not revealing enough. This, of course, without having HEARD one's system or even knowing what it is. I mean, you gotta love it. Still, people buy into all sorts of things, including the belief that speaker cable really are directional (no flames, please; that is a long thread), etc. Given the financial and emotional investment, it is not surprising to hear that small tweaks make "huge" differences. -- highdudgeon highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
Noisephiles -- That's excellent! The bottom line isn't just finding a perfect sound system; it's spending quality time finding and listening to music. The more time you fiddle, the less time you get to kick back, bliss out, and enjoy your system. Re. external DACs: that is an excellent point. Using the right DAC (please, no flames here), assuming buffering, re-clocking, jitter elimination and a halfway competent output stage, the $300 player (or squeezebox) an $10k CD player (as transport) will sound the same. The scary, and pleasing, thing for me is that the SB is so good on its own! Incidentally, for the pure hell of it, I ordered an Alpac (sp?) linear power supply, just to experiment. As the SB gurus predicted, there was absolutely no difference in sound. There are just so many other imporant things. Something I would like to see: AES/EBU output for digital (strongest signal) and XLR outputs for audio (as above, allowing really long cable runs). I wonder if anyone does and can do these mods for a reasonable price? -- highdudgeon highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
Noisephiles -- That's excellent! The bottom line isn't just finding a perfect sound system; it's spending quality time finding and listening to music. The more time you fiddle, the less time you get to kick back, bliss out, and enjoy your system. Re. external DACs: that is an excellent point. Using the right DAC (please, no flames here), assuming buffering, re-clocking, jitter elimination and a halfway competent output stage, the $300 player (or squeezebox) an $10k CD player (as transport) will sound the same. The scary, and pleasing, thing for me is that the SB is so good on its own! -- highdudgeon highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
ezkcdude Wrote: > Call me crazy, but I'd rather spend $1000 on music than a power supply. > After all, are we audiophiles or noisephiles? Lost me.. "Lovers of noise"? I'm an audiophile. I also love music, but this is not strictly the same thing. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
Call me crazy, but I'd rather spend $1000 on music than a power supply. After all, are we audiophiles or noisephiles? -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)->Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier->Speltz anti-cables->DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10" subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
I have a $10k CD player and the SB3 (albeit with a linear PSU costing $80) sounds just as good when both are fed through the same external DAC. Result is the CD player is no longer used. Vinyl still sounds way better than either, obviously! -- Heuer Heuer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2543 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
95bcwh Wrote: > So far, people who has listen to the Squeezebox with BOTH the upgraded > power supply and the stock power supply all concluded that the upgraded > power supply is "way better". Now, whether the extend of improvement > justifies the extra $1000 it's entirely up to individuals. > > On the other side of the fence, I have read that Slimdevices (and some > Squeezebox dealers) claimed that the power supply upgrade is not > necessary. But I have not read that they have actually do an A/B > comparison between the stock power supply and the upgraded one. So, all > I'm asking is, when you make a claim that the upgrade is unnecessary, > you have to be very specific in what you mean, is it: > > (1) The upgrade is unnecessary because there's no improvement in sound > whatsoever. > > (2) The upgrade is unnecessary because the price is too much to justify > the improvement. OK, I'm with you now! The hi-fi industry is full of claims, so I wouldn't worry too much about what different parties in the industry claims. I would listen to any arguments thay may have, but not to definitive statements as to what is or isn't necessary. There isn't much proof of anything anywhere, so don't worry about it. Also, as someone else mentioned, people who spend $10k on CD players don't actually think $1000 for a power supply is expensive if it lifts the SB to the same level as $10k player. BTW, talking of "proof": Most $300 CD players measure about as well as a $10k CD player. Certainly any measurement differences do not account for the difference in sound quality. Clearly the industry doesn't at the moment have the tools for proving these things. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
snarlydwarf Wrote: > $1000 for an "upgraded" power supply? > > That thing better do something more special than put out 5v. Yep, I'm not one of them, but those who spent these kind of money typically have spent over $3k to $10k buying a CD player. What they now claimed is that with the modification (including power supply), which will cost a total of $1500 (including the squeezebox), the SB now sound as good as the $3k-$10k CD players. Hence to them it's money well spent!!! -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
snarlydwarf wrote: > $1000 for an "upgraded" power supply? > > That thing better do something more special than put out 5v. Yeah, I thought you guys were talking about spending between $5 and $30 on this project. which is low enough, if it is not clear it works, who cares! Clearly a $1000 power supply has lots of tubes. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
$1000 for an "upgraded" power supply? That thing better do something more special than put out 5v. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
P Floding Wrote: > How could they possibly "prove" such a thing? > Good enough in what sense? > I'm afraid I don't quite follow your reasoning! So far, people who has listen to the Squeezebox with BOTH the upgraded power supply and the stock power supply all concluded that the upgraded power supply is "way better". Now, whether the extend of improvement justifies the extra $1000 it's entirely up to individuals. On the other side of the fence, I have read that Slimdevices (and some Squeezebox dealers) claimed that the power supply upgrade is not necessary. But I have not read that they have actually do an A/B comparison between the stock power supply and the upgraded one. So, all I'm asking is, when you make a claim that the upgrade is unnecessary, you have to be very specific in what you mean, is it: (1) The upgrade is unnecessary because there's no improvement in sound whatsoever. (2) The upgrade is unnecessary because the price is too much to justify the improvement. -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
Here's the thing: Without verified blind tests, it is more or less impossible to get a hold on these mods. Think about it: the placebo effect works. If it works in medicine, it certainly works in audio, with the expectations of eagar audiophiles multiplied by the money they have spent. I've been there and done it myself. I keep reminding people of the Bay Area Audiophile Society blind test of power cords -- judging between generic IEC cords and $1,000 audiophile cords, the hit rate hovered around 50%. 50%, of course, is statistically meaningless. In short, get a cheap cord, remember that there are miles of power grid and house hold wire before your huge audiophile cord, and call it good. But that's me. There are so many things that can be improved in theory or by numbers. So often, though, these differences make no audible difference. An amp with a published THD of .05% is not worse than one with .008% (just to name two amps I've owned in the last year or so). And then, of course, comes the law of diminishing returns. Sure, lots of things make subtle differences, and sometimes nice subtle differences...but, are they worth it? That is where the die-hard hobbiest or perfectionist diverges from other audiophiles. I recently ditched a very excellent DAC because, really, I'm very happy with the SB3 as it is, I've had transporting experiences listening to music through it, and I'd rather spent the extra grand somewhere else (like tickets to see live music, for one). Peter Lyngdorf (of TacT audio) pulled aside a well-known American reviewer and brought his ear to within an inch of a tweeter. Sure enough, there was a tiny bit of hiss. This hiss, it happens, is what a $600 or so power supply upgrade to his unit would remove. If it is important to you, well, grand. Others might choose otherwise. As if you can't tell...I'm from the objectivist camp... -- highdudgeon highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
95bcwh Wrote: > For all the buzz generated by the latest "Ultimate Power Supply" built > by Bolder Cables company. I cannot believe anyone to be stupid enough > to pay $1000 for a power supply upgrade if they cannot hear the > improvement. I think it warrant at least a critical listening by > slimdevices staff to prove their point that the stock power supply is > good enough. > > > barry How could they possibly "prove" such a thing? Good enough in what sense? I'm afraid I don't quite follow your reasoning! -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
For all the buzz generated by the latest "Ultimate Power Supply" built by Bolder Cables company. I cannot believe anyone to be stupid enough to pay $1000 for a power supply upgrade if they cannot hear the improvement. I think it warrant at least a critical listening by slimdevices staff to prove their point that the stock power supply is good enough. barry -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
)p( Wrote: > Why, the ceo of slimdevices has told on the forum that he does not > believe it affects the sound quality of the sb output. Why should they > sell something they do not believe in? > > peter The CEO doesn't have a revealing enough system to know the difference. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
My speakers are DIY using very revealing Aurum Cantons G2si ribbon tweeters and paper midrange woofers. I can definitely hear differences between tweaked and untweaked CD players but through my previous speakers (B&W N804), I was unable to do so. Audible differences between setups have mostly occured in higher frequencies but they were slight. This was confirmed by several non-audiophile visitors at my home, too. My ribbons are extremely sensitive. I think our hearing works perfectly fine. Maybe it's just the top end of our speakers that masks those slight differences. I know this doesn't directly relate to switching supplies vs linear ones but I'm sure we're all able to hear differences when there are some. With the B&W's I wouldn't have bothered upgrading my source. I guess the conclusion is try *ANYTHING* before you spend money and see for yourself if it does make a difference. Regards, Mike -- mlihl mlihl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3376 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
I can confirm that the later Linn Brilliant SMPS's are indeed very very good. Certainly later versions of the 5103, Kairn and Karik were noticeably improved over the earlier ones. SMPS is clearly not empirically bad - but it would appear that good ones are neither common or cheap. -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Skunk Wrote: > No objective proof, just ideas from various forums- including this one. > Linear supplies for digital sources tend to be recommended over SMPS. I > don't have the equipment to prove anyone wrong, so I go with the flow. > You, on the other hand, seem to want to go against the flow, but with > no recommendations. I would say you have the burden of proof in this > case. Do I have the burden to prove God does not exist? That'll be tough! It's very hard to prove a negative. As a scientist, that is something I DO know about. In this case the logical null hypothesis is: "There is no difference between linear and switching supplies in terms of audio quality." Therefore, my friend, it is YOU that has the burden of proof. -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)->Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier->Speltz anti-cables->DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10" subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
On 06/03/17 14 27, "Skunk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ezkcdude Wrote: >> What part of that is not clear? > > Where the comment even came from, considering this discussion was about > powering a squeezebox. > > Of course an SMPS is ok for charging your cellphone, but what's that > got to do with this conversation? > > Thinking SMPS's are bad for all applications is not audiosnobbery, it's > stupidity. Why state the obvious? Surely you weren't advocating thier > use in audio electronics? > > So I'll ask again, what is your point- in relation to the topic at > hand. Are SMPS's bad for the SB? Have you hooked a good regulated > linear one up to it? Or are you just playing engineer on TV. I hesitate to wade into the linear versus switch mode power supply fray, not having the physics/EE background, but I can't refrain from noting that in the world of Linn enthusiasts, the later switch mode power supplies (Brilliant SMPS) seem to be typically rated as sounding much better than the earlier linear power supplies (in otherwise similar components such as preamps). (I have never made any comparison though.) It would seem that there are SMPSs and SMPSs... CR ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
Skunk Wrote: > Slim Devices say they listened to audiophiles to bring the performance > of the SB to it's current level. With all this talk about power > supplies, I wonder if they'll investigate it further. Perhaps a poll of > our unscientific findings will play a part in the decision to > investigate. I agree. For me, it is ok that Slimdevices deliver the SBx with the PSU that they have toady. But they should sell a linear one to us "freaks" as an option. Tom -- tomsi42 SqueezeBox2, Rotel RC-1070/RB-1070, dynaBel Exact. tomsi42's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2477 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Robin Bowes Wrote: > > Easy tiger. > > That comment was an observation regarding the general tone of several > threads in this list/forum recently. > > Since I posted that, there has been an official request to tone it > down, > so I don't think I was far off the mark. > > R. No problem. It was directed at me though, not recent posts- so no wonder it made little sense. Why didn't you just start a new ranting thread? Happy St. Pattys day. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
ezkcdude Wrote: > As for that, I'm not sure this is even possible. What exactly would your > criteria be? A comparison of how my system sounds with different power > supplies or actual measurements? Since nobody can really equate > measurements with sound preferences, and everyone has different > preferences, anyway, isn't this whole argument subjective? Gosh, I have > a linear supply for my SB3 that I got only because of this forum. Do I > hear any difference? No. Do I regret getting it? No, not really. It was > relatively cheap, and worth a try. You guys may have better ears than > me, I can't say. All I know is that it is ludicrous to assume all > linear supplies are inherently superior (in terms of audio quality) > based upon some ideas that you may have gotten from various forums. Do > YOU have objective proof of this? No objective proof, just ideas from various forums- including this one. Linear supplies for digital sources tend to be recommended over SMPS. I don't have the equipment to prove anyone wrong, so I go with the flow. You, on the other hand, seem to want to go against the flow, but with no recommendations. I would say you have the burden of proof in this case. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Skunk wrote: > Robin Bowes Wrote: > >> Erm, the std. power supply that ships with the Squeezebox is a >> switcher. >> > > And? Haven't you investigated replacing it with a linear? Why? > Because it's not ideal feeding the SB. Did I miss your point too? I've looked into getting a linear supply because: a. I'm an inveterate twiddler with a background in electronics b. I'm interested to see if it does make an audible difference on my system c. They're cheap I am in no way unhappy with the sound of my stock SB3. That doesn't stop me experimenting with external DACs, regulated power supplies, etc. (see a.) You said: > Where the comment even came from, considering this discussion was > about powering a squeezebox. > > Of course an SMPS is ok for charging your cellphone, but what's that > got to do with this conversation? > > Thinking SMPS's are bad for all applications is not audiosnobbery, > it's stupidity. Why state the obvious? Surely you weren't advocating > thier use in audio electronics? I was pointing out that the standard SB PSU is a switcher. And switching PS circuitry is used internally within the SB2/3. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are those who think that the stock SB sounds pretty damn good. So it seems a little strange to suggest that it is wrong to advocate the use of switching PSUs in audio electronics. > > -Robin Bowes Wrote: > >> Sheesh, this group is really deteriorating into a *proper* >> audiophile community! >> >> R. > > Yeah, right over my head, that one... > > Can you come up with a more pointed display of wit next time? Easy tiger. That comment was an observation regarding the general tone of several threads in this list/forum recently. Since I posted that, there has been an official request to tone it down, so I don't think I was far off the mark. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
lawther Wrote: > Is something like this a viable PS? I'm obviously coming from a place > of not knowing this stuff. > > http://www.westcoastmall.net/shop/product_info.php?products_id=916 Ouch! You wouldn't want that. It's a 12V not 5V. It woild fry your squeezebox. You should look for a 5V (V = Volt) PSU. Should be 1.5A or more (A = Ampere). The squeezebox uses about 1A at the peaks, but an engineering principle says that you should use a PSU that is capable of the double of your need. Note that the Voltage must be an absolute; the amperage of the PSU can be larger. Tom -- tomsi42 SqueezeBox2, Rotel RC-1070/RB-1070, dynaBel Exact. tomsi42's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2477 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Skunk Wrote: > Can you provide a link to a suitable switching power supply that would > equal any regulated linear's performance? What about one with voltage > sense? Sorry to be shrill, but if you'd provide some viable > alternatives to back up the theory I'd be all ears. As for that, I'm not sure this is even possible. What exactly would your criteria be? A comparison of how my system sounds with different power supplies or actual measurements? Since nobody can really equate measurements with sound preferences, and everyone has different preferences, anyway, isn't this whole argument subjective? Gosh, I have a linear supply for my SB3 that I got only because of this forum. Do I hear any difference? No. Do I regret getting it? No, not really. It was relatively cheap, and worth a try. You guys may have better ears than me, I can't say. All I know is that it is ludicrous to assume all linear supplies are inherently superior (in terms of audio quality) based upon some ideas that you may have gotten from various forums. Do YOU have objective proof of this? -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)->Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier->Speltz anti-cables->DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10" subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Robin Bowes Wrote: > > Erm, the std. power supply that ships with the Squeezebox is a > switcher. > And? Haven't you investigated replacing it with a linear? Why? Because it's not ideal feeding the SB. Did I miss your point too? -Robin Bowes Wrote: > > Sheesh, this group is really deteriorating into a *proper* audiophile > community! > > R. Yeah, right over my head, that one... Can you come up with a more pointed display of wit next time? -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
reeve_mike Wrote: > Which is why I (like you I presume) have linears on my SBs :-) Indeed... I didn't wan't to start a big flamewar. I don't have a problem with Slimdevices choice. It is just nice to know that using another $50-$100 to change a great product to a very great one! Tom -- tomsi42 SqueezeBox2, Rotel RC-1070/RB-1070, dynaBel Exact. tomsi42's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2477 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Skunk Wrote: > While the power supply in the chord amp is enviable, it's not a good > comparison in the context of this discussion. That switching supply is > in a $75,000 amp. > > Which is audiosnobbery, buying a $75,000 amp with aerospace designed > PS, or getting a surplus linear for $10 that will beat any SMPS you can > purchase off the shelf? I wasn't intentionally trying to offend anyone, but I apologize post-haste. I was just trying to correct a rather broad assertion, that just because the power supply is switching, it must necessarily suck. -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)->Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier->Speltz anti-cables->DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10" subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
Is something like this a viable PS? I'm obviously coming from a place of not knowing this stuff. http://www.westcoastmall.net/shop/product_info.php?products_id=916 -- lawther lawther's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4597 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
ezkcdude Wrote: > I don't see any reason to get all heated up about it. I wasn't really getting heated up yet. Refering to that post in the context you did kind made it seem wrong to say 'a computers PS would be not ideal'. I thought he wrote a good response... Can you provide a link to a suitable switching power supply that would equal any regulated linear's performance? What about one with voltage sense? Sorry to be shrill, but if you'd provide some viable alternatives to back up the theory I'd be all ears. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade
tomsi42 Wrote: > Note that the PSU is "heavily filtered, multiply rectified" - this is > quite different from the stock SB powersupply ... Which is why I (like you I presume) have linears on my SBs :-) -- reeve_mike reeve_mike's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=995 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20844 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
