[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
highdudgeon Wrote: > > > Incidentally, for the pure hell of it, I ordered an Alpac (sp?) linear > power supply, just to experiment. As the SB gurus predicted, there was > absolutely no difference in sound. There are just so many other > imporant things. I did hear an improvement with a linear power supply. It's most obvious through my headphone rig. highdudgeon Wrote: > Something I would like to see: AES/EBU output for digital (strongest > signal) and XLR outputs for audio (as above, allowing really long cable > runs). I wonder if anyone does and can do these mods for a reasonable > price? You can run your spdif output into one of these Behringer components (example: DEQ), and use the balanced or ABS/EBU outputs to run the long distance to your next component. -Dan -- dwc dwc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1892 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
95bcwh Wrote: > Heuer, > Have you compared the analog out from the SB3 versus the analog out > of the $10k CD player? > > Rgds > barry No. The Theta CD transport runs balanced into the Audio Synthesis DAX Discrete and has no analog outs. DAX runs balanced to the pre-amp and power amp. Biggest SB3 improvement was using the DAX. Smaller improvement using linear PSU over standard one but still worthwhile. Bear in mind this is part of a very high resolution system and the differences are fairly obvious. I use my wife as the sanity check. -- Heuer Heuer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2543 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
tyler_durden Wrote: > I didn't hear any difference, but then, I didn't pay $1k for the power > supply. That's a bit steep for a 5V 2A power supply... > > TD I'm not surprised, my "upgraded power supply" refers specificly to those built by Bolder Cables company and Red wine audio. :) -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
95bcwh Wrote: > So far, people who has listen to the Squeezebox with BOTH the upgraded > power supply and the stock power supply all concluded that the upgraded > power supply is "way better". I didn't hear any difference, but then, I didn't pay $1k for the power supply. That's a bit steep for a 5V 2A power supply... TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
I prefer the $100 route where you get a battery backup built for home theater that has individual line filters on each outlet. I also get automatic voltage regulation and ALL my toys sound and look good! Lastly, if the power fails, I get about 15 minutes worth of music until I break out the AA's. (The server is on battery backup as well, so is the fish tank for that matter). -- notanatheist notanatheist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
Heuer Wrote: > I have a $10k CD player and the SB3 (albeit with a linear PSU costing > $80) sounds just as good when both are fed through the same external > DAC. Result is the CD player is no longer used. > > Vinyl still sounds way better than either, obviously! Heuer, Have you compared the analog out from the SB3 versus the analog out of the $10k CD player? A bit of correction on my previous posts, the $1000 "Ultimate Power Supply" is only one part of the equation. Bolder cable company will also modified the analog (and Digital) output depending on which output you're using. So the total cost of modification can be as high as $1500. I picked the cheaper route. I had my SB3 modified by Red wine audio, costed me about $480 (incl. shipping) to modify the DAC, analog output as well as battery power supply. I have not had the opportunities to compare my modded SB3 to any $10k CD player so I cannot give any feedback yet. Here's a link to another forum where they compare the SB3 sound due to different power supply: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/viewtopic.php?t=26627 I must emphasize that I have no affiliation with either companies and I'm not trying to sell their products. With so much raves generated on modifications, I thought spending $480 to find out the truth myself is not too ridiculous.. Rgds barry -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
Noisephiles -- That's excellent! The bottom line isn't just finding a perfect sound system; it's spending quality time finding and listening to music. The more time you fiddle, the less time you get to kick back, bliss out, and enjoy your system. Re. external DACs: that is an excellent point. Using the right DAC (please, no flames here), assuming buffering, re-clocking, jitter elimination and a halfway competent output stage, the $300 player (or squeezebox) an $10k CD player (as transport) will sound the same. The scary, and pleasing, thing for me is that the SB is so good on its own! Incidentally, for the pure hell of it, I ordered an Alpac (sp?) linear power supply, just to experiment. As the SB gurus predicted, there was absolutely no difference in sound. There are just so many other imporant things. Something I would like to see: AES/EBU output for digital (strongest signal) and XLR outputs for audio (as above, allowing really long cable runs). I wonder if anyone does and can do these mods for a reasonable price? -- highdudgeon highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
Noisephiles -- That's excellent! The bottom line isn't just finding a perfect sound system; it's spending quality time finding and listening to music. The more time you fiddle, the less time you get to kick back, bliss out, and enjoy your system. Re. external DACs: that is an excellent point. Using the right DAC (please, no flames here), assuming buffering, re-clocking, jitter elimination and a halfway competent output stage, the $300 player (or squeezebox) an $10k CD player (as transport) will sound the same. The scary, and pleasing, thing for me is that the SB is so good on its own! -- highdudgeon highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
ezkcdude Wrote: > Call me crazy, but I'd rather spend $1000 on music than a power supply. > After all, are we audiophiles or noisephiles? Lost me.. "Lovers of noise"? I'm an audiophile. I also love music, but this is not strictly the same thing. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
Call me crazy, but I'd rather spend $1000 on music than a power supply. After all, are we audiophiles or noisephiles? -- ezkcdude SB3->Derek Shek TDA1543/CS8412 NOS DAC->MIT Terminator 2 interconnects->Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)->Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier->Speltz anti-cables->DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10" subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
I have a $10k CD player and the SB3 (albeit with a linear PSU costing $80) sounds just as good when both are fed through the same external DAC. Result is the CD player is no longer used. Vinyl still sounds way better than either, obviously! -- Heuer Heuer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2543 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
95bcwh Wrote: > So far, people who has listen to the Squeezebox with BOTH the upgraded > power supply and the stock power supply all concluded that the upgraded > power supply is "way better". Now, whether the extend of improvement > justifies the extra $1000 it's entirely up to individuals. > > On the other side of the fence, I have read that Slimdevices (and some > Squeezebox dealers) claimed that the power supply upgrade is not > necessary. But I have not read that they have actually do an A/B > comparison between the stock power supply and the upgraded one. So, all > I'm asking is, when you make a claim that the upgrade is unnecessary, > you have to be very specific in what you mean, is it: > > (1) The upgrade is unnecessary because there's no improvement in sound > whatsoever. > > (2) The upgrade is unnecessary because the price is too much to justify > the improvement. OK, I'm with you now! The hi-fi industry is full of claims, so I wouldn't worry too much about what different parties in the industry claims. I would listen to any arguments thay may have, but not to definitive statements as to what is or isn't necessary. There isn't much proof of anything anywhere, so don't worry about it. Also, as someone else mentioned, people who spend $10k on CD players don't actually think $1000 for a power supply is expensive if it lifts the SB to the same level as $10k player. BTW, talking of "proof": Most $300 CD players measure about as well as a $10k CD player. Certainly any measurement differences do not account for the difference in sound quality. Clearly the industry doesn't at the moment have the tools for proving these things. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
snarlydwarf Wrote: > $1000 for an "upgraded" power supply? > > That thing better do something more special than put out 5v. Yep, I'm not one of them, but those who spent these kind of money typically have spent over $3k to $10k buying a CD player. What they now claimed is that with the modification (including power supply), which will cost a total of $1500 (including the squeezebox), the SB now sound as good as the $3k-$10k CD players. Hence to them it's money well spent!!! -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
snarlydwarf wrote: > $1000 for an "upgraded" power supply? > > That thing better do something more special than put out 5v. Yeah, I thought you guys were talking about spending between $5 and $30 on this project. which is low enough, if it is not clear it works, who cares! Clearly a $1000 power supply has lots of tubes. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
$1000 for an "upgraded" power supply? That thing better do something more special than put out 5v. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
P Floding Wrote: > How could they possibly "prove" such a thing? > Good enough in what sense? > I'm afraid I don't quite follow your reasoning! So far, people who has listen to the Squeezebox with BOTH the upgraded power supply and the stock power supply all concluded that the upgraded power supply is "way better". Now, whether the extend of improvement justifies the extra $1000 it's entirely up to individuals. On the other side of the fence, I have read that Slimdevices (and some Squeezebox dealers) claimed that the power supply upgrade is not necessary. But I have not read that they have actually do an A/B comparison between the stock power supply and the upgraded one. So, all I'm asking is, when you make a claim that the upgrade is unnecessary, you have to be very specific in what you mean, is it: (1) The upgrade is unnecessary because there's no improvement in sound whatsoever. (2) The upgrade is unnecessary because the price is too much to justify the improvement. -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
Here's the thing: Without verified blind tests, it is more or less impossible to get a hold on these mods. Think about it: the placebo effect works. If it works in medicine, it certainly works in audio, with the expectations of eagar audiophiles multiplied by the money they have spent. I've been there and done it myself. I keep reminding people of the Bay Area Audiophile Society blind test of power cords -- judging between generic IEC cords and $1,000 audiophile cords, the hit rate hovered around 50%. 50%, of course, is statistically meaningless. In short, get a cheap cord, remember that there are miles of power grid and house hold wire before your huge audiophile cord, and call it good. But that's me. There are so many things that can be improved in theory or by numbers. So often, though, these differences make no audible difference. An amp with a published THD of .05% is not worse than one with .008% (just to name two amps I've owned in the last year or so). And then, of course, comes the law of diminishing returns. Sure, lots of things make subtle differences, and sometimes nice subtle differences...but, are they worth it? That is where the die-hard hobbiest or perfectionist diverges from other audiophiles. I recently ditched a very excellent DAC because, really, I'm very happy with the SB3 as it is, I've had transporting experiences listening to music through it, and I'd rather spent the extra grand somewhere else (like tickets to see live music, for one). Peter Lyngdorf (of TacT audio) pulled aside a well-known American reviewer and brought his ear to within an inch of a tweeter. Sure enough, there was a tiny bit of hiss. This hiss, it happens, is what a $600 or so power supply upgrade to his unit would remove. If it is important to you, well, grand. Others might choose otherwise. As if you can't tell...I'm from the objectivist camp... -- highdudgeon highdudgeon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2195 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
95bcwh Wrote: > For all the buzz generated by the latest "Ultimate Power Supply" built > by Bolder Cables company. I cannot believe anyone to be stupid enough > to pay $1000 for a power supply upgrade if they cannot hear the > improvement. I think it warrant at least a critical listening by > slimdevices staff to prove their point that the stock power supply is > good enough. > > > barry How could they possibly "prove" such a thing? Good enough in what sense? I'm afraid I don't quite follow your reasoning! -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
For all the buzz generated by the latest "Ultimate Power Supply" built by Bolder Cables company. I cannot believe anyone to be stupid enough to pay $1000 for a power supply upgrade if they cannot hear the improvement. I think it warrant at least a critical listening by slimdevices staff to prove their point that the stock power supply is good enough. barry -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
)p( Wrote: > Why, the ceo of slimdevices has told on the forum that he does not > believe it affects the sound quality of the sb output. Why should they > sell something they do not believe in? > > peter The CEO doesn't have a revealing enough system to know the difference. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Power supply upgrade results (by ear)
Skunk Wrote: > Slim Devices say they listened to audiophiles to bring the performance > of the SB to it's current level. With all this talk about power > supplies, I wonder if they'll investigate it further. Perhaps a poll of > our unscientific findings will play a part in the decision to > investigate. I agree. For me, it is ok that Slimdevices deliver the SBx with the PSU that they have toady. But they should sell a linear one to us "freaks" as an option. Tom -- tomsi42 SqueezeBox2, Rotel RC-1070/RB-1070, dynaBel Exact. tomsi42's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2477 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22204 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
