[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-29 Thread mkozlows

Pat Farrell;141161 Wrote: 
> 
> The relational database is critical to what I want to do.
> I frankly don't understand what your objection is, I am not suggesting
> that I (or Slim) force you to do it my way. I just want the ability to
> do it the right way.
> 

I was just confused by your using the shorthand of "the right way" to
mean "the right way, assuming you never use any other software or
devices, and never move or copy your files."

Carry on.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-29 Thread mkozlows

Pat Farrell;141143 Wrote: 
> 
> We are not talking about "a particular player" we are talking about
> SlimServer which is a music libary.

SlimServer is a single application.  Anything you put into SlimServer's
database won't be available for all the other apps that you use to play
your music, or all the other devices to which you sync it.  That's fine
for metadata you don't really care about in a primary fashion, I suppose
-- if it's only useful to SlimServer, it's just as well that only
SlimServer know about it -- but definitely not how you'd want to handle
Artist/Title/Genre stuff.

> 
> You are correct that moving files makes it harder to track the 
> descriptive data, but it is by no means all that hard.

I don't believe you understood what I was saying.  Any time you copy
files in a way that's not aware of the database -- by using a regular
file copy in Windows Explorer, an FTP upload, a BitTorrent thing,
whatever -- the metadata doesn't go along for the ride, and is lost. 
This is one of the well-known problems with centralized metadata
stores, and one of the reason that in-file metadata is standard for
essentially all types of files these days.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-29 Thread mkozlows

Pat Farrell;141120 Wrote: 
> 
> To start with, tags in a music file have to follow whatever
> hierarchical 
> structure the files are in (unless, horrors, it is flat). What people 
> care about is relational data, who the players are, writers, etc. 
> Attempting to emulate a relational database in flat or hierarchical
> data 
> is at best a ton of wasted work. Good thing that relational databases 
> have been known technology for 30+ years.
> 
> The trick is to make all the voodoo, selects, outer joins, etc. 
> invisible to the user.
> 

A centralized database is a fine implementation choice for a particular
player, enabling various sorts, filters, and views of the data.  Which
is why almost all programs, from iTunes to WMP to Slim to Foobar, use a
database internally.

But a database is a TERRIBLE place to use as the primary storage for a
file's metadata.  It's difficult to use with multiple applications,
it's a single point of failure that can wipe out all metadata, and it
means that files copied off somewhere else lose all their metadata.

Metadata belongs in tags, and players that use metadata should build
internal database caches of the metadata.  Which is, fortunately
enough, exactly the current situation.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-29 Thread JSonnabend

I'm with you.  I manage my CD data using CATraxx (a great ~$45 shareware
title).  I had written a small utility to populate the SlimDB with the
CATraxx data, only to find that Slim was overwriting my data everytime
I played a song.  I tried to convince -someone- that Slim shouldn't
futz with data it found, but everyone said I was crazy.  Tags are the
-only- logical place for data.

It's good to know I'm not alone in my sanity.  ;-)

- Jeff


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-29 Thread JSonnabend

> Once we stop thinking about the concept that all knowledge is kept in
> tags in the music files, we can do real data management. Relational
> databases are very good at this, and there are zillions of tools to do
> things like make reports.
You know, I made exactly this point in a thread around here a few
months back and was positively -lambasted- for such a suggestion.  Man
the flack (with a "k") I got for that one...

- Jeff


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-29 Thread SteveEast

gharris999;141107 Wrote: 
> Am I missing something?  Does iTunes support FLAC now?  Or are you guys
> talking about embedded cover art for ALAC files?

Sorry, no FLAC. I guess I was being too specific in answering the
question.

Steve.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-29 Thread gharris999

Am I missing something?  Does iTunes support FLAC now?  Or are you guys
talking about embedded cover art for ALAC files?


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-29 Thread SteveEast

[EMAIL PROTECTED];141067 Wrote: 
> 
> 
> I think, though, that iTunes may have a drag-and-drop facility. Only  
> one way to find out whether it works: I'd better get scanning!
> 
> 

If you mean can you drag and drop cover art in iTunes then the answer
is yes. Either to an individual track that's currently playing (in
iTunes) or to a group of selected tracks on which you've done "Get
Info".

Steve.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-29 Thread gharris999

[EMAIL PROTECTED];141080 Wrote: 
> Well, leaving aside the un-Intelness of my Macs, I'm tempted to  
> observe merely: pretty easy for you, maybe, but for me..

Impossible for me, since I don't have a mac.  I've posted a request to
the HydrogenAudio forum for a mac compile.  We'll see if some kind soul
takes pity on us.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-29 Thread cunobelinus
Well, leaving aside the un-Intelness of my Macs, I'm tempted to  
observe merely: pretty easy for you, maybe, but for me - well, I  
might as well waggle my ears and hope to fly!


On 29 Sep 2006, at 18:12, gharris999 wrote:



The sources for the modified MetaFlac are available at the  
HydrogenAudio
link above.  I think it ought to be pretty straight forward to  
compile a

mac version.  Also, the souce to the base64 encoding utility is
available at the gharris999 link above.  Again, I think that code is
pretty portable and ought to compile for your mac.  I assume that  
Intel
macs have the same "endiness" as wintel machines, so the compiles  
ought

to be pretty easy.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-29 Thread gharris999

The sources for the modified MetaFlac are available at the HydrogenAudio
link above.  I think it ought to be pretty straight forward to compile a
mac version.  Also, the souce to the base64 encoding utility is
available at the gharris999 link above.  Again, I think that code is
pretty portable and ought to compile for your mac.  I assume that Intel
macs have the same "endiness" as wintel machines, so the compiles ought
to be pretty easy.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-29 Thread cunobelinus
WHAT? That's horrible! It shows how long it is since I went  
into HMV, I suppose. That upstairs section used to be a wonderful  
oasis of civilised, self-indulgent, expenditure - a place where it  
was a pleasure to open one's credit card. That was before Amazon came  
along, though...hmmm..serves me right, then, I suppose.


I'd always assumed that the likes of CDPedia searched all of Amazon.  
Is that not right?


Sorry, this is getting rather OT.

On 29 Sep 2006, at 16:14, adamslim wrote:



mkozlows;140900 Wrote:
Amazon actually has more CD covers than you think.  The key is to  
search
for "Classical Music" instead of "Music".  Apparently, Classical  
isn't a

subset of music, it's an entirely different thing.  I spent a few
frustrating hours updating my album art in Windows Media Player  
before

I realized that I was misusing Amazon.


Yeah I've fallen foul of that many times.  As soon as you search
Classical Music you get loads of extra options for composer,  
orchestra,

conductor etc that are not relevant for pop.

It's kind of nice it being separate - I fell out with HMV on Oxford
Street (London UK) when they got rid of the special staircase from the
entrance to the classical section.  One feels more inclined to buy  
Bach

when one is not assaulted by Beyonce!


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-29 Thread cunobelinus
Thank you. One minor problem for me with this solution is summed up  
in this word: Mac..


I think, though, that iTunes may have a drag-and-drop facility. Only  
one way to find out whether it works: I'd better get scanning!


On 29 Sep 2006, at 16:04, gharris999 wrote:



[EMAIL PROTECTED];140485 Wrote:

Gharris999, how do you do this embedding trick, again?[/color]


Slimserver understands jpgs embedded into FLACs in a COVERART tag if
they are base64 encoded.  About a year ago, Aurorix, a participant on
the HydrogenAudio forums, wrote a modification to MetaFlac that allows
text files to be embedded into FLACS via the MetaFlac command line.
See this thread for the details, the binaries and the sources:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=38352

I embed my coverart in my whole-album FLACs by first scanning the CD
covers at 300x300 and saving them to the same base file name as the
FLACed album.  I then just drag and drop the FLAC file onto a shortcut
that invokes a script that b64 encodes the jpg and then embeds the
encoded image in a COVERART tag.

I've put my windows scripts and supporting utilities (with sources)
along with a couple of small example test FLACs here:
http://home.earthlink.net/~gharris999/FlacCueTools.zip

One caveat: the modified MetaFlac seems to have some limitations:  it
can't handle files greater than 64k.  Also, it seems to have trouble
with ansi text files that include some diacritics (e.g. ÿ).  The
solution to that problem has been to feed MetaFlac text files that are
already UTF8 encoded.  Slimserver is smart enough to recognize the  
UTF8

byte-order-mark in embedded cuesheets and skip it.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-29 Thread adamslim

mkozlows;140900 Wrote: 
> Amazon actually has more CD covers than you think.  The key is to search
> for "Classical Music" instead of "Music".  Apparently, Classical isn't a
> subset of music, it's an entirely different thing.  I spent a few
> frustrating hours updating my album art in Windows Media Player before
> I realized that I was misusing Amazon.

Yeah I've fallen foul of that many times.  As soon as you search
Classical Music you get loads of extra options for composer, orchestra,
conductor etc that are not relevant for pop.

It's kind of nice it being separate - I fell out with HMV on Oxford
Street (London UK) when they got rid of the special staircase from the
entrance to the classical section.  One feels more inclined to buy Bach
when one is not assaulted by Beyonce!


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-29 Thread gharris999

[EMAIL PROTECTED];140485 Wrote: 
> Gharris999, how do you do this embedding trick, again?[/color]

Slimserver understands jpgs embedded into FLACs in a COVERART tag if
they are base64 encoded.  About a year ago, Aurorix, a participant on
the HydrogenAudio forums, wrote a modification to MetaFlac that allows
text files to be embedded into FLACS via the MetaFlac command line. 
See this thread for the details, the binaries and the sources:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=38352

I embed my coverart in my whole-album FLACs by first scanning the CD
covers at 300x300 and saving them to the same base file name as the
FLACed album.  I then just drag and drop the FLAC file onto a shortcut
that invokes a script that b64 encodes the jpg and then embeds the
encoded image in a COVERART tag.

I've put my windows scripts and supporting utilities (with sources)
along with a couple of small example test FLACs here: 
http://home.earthlink.net/~gharris999/FlacCueTools.zip

One caveat: the modified MetaFlac seems to have some limitations:  it
can't handle files greater than 64k.  Also, it seems to have trouble
with ansi text files that include some diacritics (e.g. ÿ).  The
solution to that problem has been to feed MetaFlac text files that are
already UTF8 encoded.  Slimserver is smart enough to recognize the UTF8
byte-order-mark in embedded cuesheets and skip it.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-28 Thread mkozlows

Pat Farrell;140597 Wrote: 
> 
> Right, Amazon only has mass market stuff.
> A lot of 'classical' CDs are lucky to sell as many as 10,000 copies, 
> which doesn't even count for Amazon. AllMusic has many more, but I
> don't 
> like their navigation to find them.
> 

Amazon actually has more CD covers than you think.  The key is to
search for "Classical Music" instead of "Music".  Apparently, Classical
isn't a subset of music, it's an entirely different thing.  I spent a
few frustrating hours updating my album art in Windows Media Player
before I realized that I was misusing Amazon.

(And someone earlier in the thread asked how cover art was embedded. 
In most metadata schemes, it's possible to put the cover art directly
into a tag in the audio file.  Adding cover art to WMA via WMP puts the
tag in and creates the jpg in the folder.)


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-28 Thread SuperQ

gharris999;140396 Wrote: 
> OK, Transporter sans pre-amp is working well.
> 
> For the "listening room" (a.k.a. office) I've got the Transporter
> unbalanced analog outs going direct into a ATI AT1502 amp driving
> Magneplanar MG3.5's.  

man.. I love the maggies, I would get a pair, but my cats would likely
use them as a post.  My Definitives have survived, but only because the
drivers are at the top, and there is a good scratch post near them at
all times.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-28 Thread kevin

[EMAIL PROTECTED];140655 Wrote: 
> Whatwhatwhatwhatwhat? I didn't know about AllMusic. Thank you very  
> much for that one, Pat. I'm off to have a look in a minute.

Their web UI has become pretty immensely complicated and cumbersome
lately.  And by lately I mean maybe the last 2 years or so.  Might be
difficult to actually get data out of...


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-27 Thread Pat Farrell

gharris999 wrote:

Not cursed like I'm cursed, though.  It's not enough that I've got to
flac all those CDs.  Now that I've figured out how to embed the cover
art, I've got to scan all the jewel-cases too.  Next, I'll start
feeling the need to OCR all the liner notes and embed those too.  It's
sisyphusian, man.


I've done a bit of rock pushing in my time too, but why scan the covers? 
Between Amazon and AllMusic, I've found online images of all of my CDs. 
There are tools to automatically retrieve them, mine is currently 
broken, but there are others.


And why are you trying to embed them? or where are you embedding them? I 
just put them as cover.jpg in the album's directory and the SlimServer 
does all the hard work.


Liner notes? What are they? I remember buying vinyl LPs that sometimes 
came with liners, and sometimes they had notes. With most CDs, I never 
even look at the stuff in the jewel cases. I open the case, stick the CD 
in my computer, rip it, compress it with flac and move it to the right 
place in my SlimServer library. Do they even write on the paper in the 
jewel boxes?


A fair number of my recent CDs don't even have jewel boxes, they are in 
some sort of recycled paper sleeves



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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-27 Thread gharris999

Not cursed like I'm cursed, though.  It's not enough that I've got to
flac all those CDs.  Now that I've figured out how to embed the cover
art, I've got to scan all the jewel-cases too.  Next, I'll start
feeling the need to OCR all the liner notes and embed those too.  It's
sisyphusian, man.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-27 Thread Pale Blue Ego

Why are all those multicolored plastic cases on the shelves?  It is
purely a nostalgia thing?  My music room is similarly cursed.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-27 Thread gharris999

OK, Transporter sans pre-amp is working well.

For the "listening room" (a.k.a. office) I've got the Transporter
unbalanced analog outs going direct into a ATI AT1502 amp driving
Magneplanar MG3.5's.  For the rest of the house, I've got the
Transporter balanced outs "unbalanced" (pin 1 to rca shield, pin 2 to
rca tip) to another ATI AT1502 driving a Niles SVL-4 speaker selector /
volume control feeding 3 pairs of speakers: Magnepanar MG-12QRs in the
living room, Celestron book shelf speakers in the kitchen and some
Celestron - like speakers in the bedroom.

See the attached pics.

So far, the sound is very clean.  My favorite "quick impression" piece
for listening is the last movement to the Shostakovich Sym. #6 in the
Jarvi-Scottish National Orch recording.  There is a fff passage with
every brass player in the orchestra blowing his brains out and one lone
guy in the back playing the tambourine.  With the Transporter replacing
the pre-amp, I think I can hear that tambourine so well that I think I
could count the bangles on it.  Compared to my SB3 feeding a benchmark
DAC1 feeding a pair of AKG headphones, there's way more "there" there.

This is totally subjective, of course.  I’ll have to live with this
setup for a while before I decide to throw away the pre-amp.


+---+
|Filename: P9270002.JPG |
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1768|
+---+

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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-27 Thread seanadams

Triode;140307 Wrote: 
> Note that doing this may not sound the same as using the unbalanced
> output from Transporter.  The Dac chip has balanced output signals and
> in this configuration you are only using one of them.  This potentially
> removing some of the benefits of differential output from the dac.  The
> unbalanced output combines the differential outputs and so is a true
> unbalanced output.

Absolutely - good point.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-27 Thread Triode

gharris999;140139 Wrote: 
> 2). What is the best way to unbalance the Transporter's XLR analog outs
> to connect to unbalanced RCA ins on the ATI amp?  (I assume that a LoZ
> to HiZ transformer is NOT the way to go.) 
> 

Note that doing this may not sound the same as using the unbalanced
output from Transporter.  The Dac chip has balanced output signals and
in this configuration you are only using one of them.  This potentially
removing some of the benefits of differential output from the dac.  The
unbalanced output combines the differential outputs and so is a true
unbalanced output.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-27 Thread gharris999

Will do.  The UPS tracking page tells me that my Transporter is "OUT FOR
DELIVERY" right now.


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-27 Thread Deaf Cat

Hay 999,
Please let us know how you get on with the pre amp experiment :)

Cheers


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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Transporter analog out questions

2006-09-27 Thread seanadams

gharris999;140139 Wrote: 
> Two question:  
> 
> 1). Can I use  both the unbalanced RCA and the balanced XLR analog
> outputs of the Transporter simultaneously?   
> 

Yes you can. Each output is driven separately.

> 
> 2). What is the best way to unbalance the Transporter's XLR analog outs
> to connect to unbalanced RCA ins on the ATI amp?  (I assume that a LoZ
> to HiZ transformer is NOT the way to go.) 
> 
> Most diagrams that I've seen wire the XLR pins 1 (ground) and 3
> (-audio) to the sleeve on the RCA connector.  However, my DAC1 manual
> recommends just leaving pin 3 unconnected to avoid "very high levels of
> distortion."  What is the prefered method for the Transporter?

Do NOT ground the unused signal - it should be disconnected. Just wire
up + and gnd. See here:  
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=27445

Sean


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