Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
bumping this thread in anticipation of feb 2008 and maybe sb4 release ? Liam -- soupdragon [SB3 + NET Audio Sonance DAC ] + [Cyrus CD6] + [JVC QL A75 DD TT + Decca Super Gold + Hadcock 242 SE + Graham Slee Era Gold V] -> Cyrus Pre-X -> Eclipse TD 502A -> Eclipse TD 512 speakers soupdragon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4958 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
ezkcdude;221921 Wrote: > After almost two years with my SB3, I'm not convinced that an SB4 could > really offer much substantial improvement. Sure, the power supply could > be made linear, or the DAC stage could be upgraded, but most people who > care about such things will inevitably, if not invariably, purchase an > external DAC,anyway. The only feature I still would like to see is > support for external plugin drives (USB, flash, etc), but that seems to > be out of the question, due to architectural issues. I've had my SB3 for over a year now and I still love it. For me, the ideal SB4 would add: - the ability to hide the SB4 itself so line-of-sight is no longer necessary for control - improved responsiveness as it's just that bit too slow today - improved playlist control with built-in intelligence like that offered by Pandora or The Filter - the ability to dynamically mix tracks in your collection (MixAlbum) would be a really nice touch I can dream :-) -- Kaizen28 Kaizen28's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5953 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Damn good movie poster (sorry, now keep fighting) +---+ |Filename: kubrick-stanley-dr-strangelove-9919428.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3156| +---+ -- TCM 'Squeezebox 3' (http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html) -> 'Trends Audio TA-10.1' (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/trends/ta10.html) -> 'QLN QuBiC 121' (http://www.minhembio.com/produkt/163409) 'WhatTheFuckHiFi.com' (http://whatthefuckhifi.com/) 'Last.fm: ThisCharmingMan' (http://www.last.fm/user/ThisCharmingMan) 'Save Internet Radio' (http://www.savenetradio.org) TCM's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=702 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Skunk;222094 Wrote: > Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room. Slim Forums: how we learned to stop worrying and love the music H -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) SB+, EAR 859, Living Voice Auditorium II plus some other stuff SB3, Shek d2, Ming-Da MC84-C, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
opaqueice;221842 Wrote: > > > Patrick Dixon wrote: > >It's not. > > Can you back that up, or are you simply making assertions? > Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the war room. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
After almost two years with my SB3, I'm not convinced that an SB4 could really offer much substantial improvement. Sure, the power supply could be made linear, or the DAC stage could be upgraded, but most people who care about such things will inevitably, if not invariably, purchase an external DAC,anyway. The only feature I still would like to see is support for external plugin drives (USB, flash, etc), but that seems to be out of the question, due to architectural issues. -- ezkcdude There are 10 kind of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who don't. SHINYMETAL '*Site*' (http://www.ezdiyaudio.com)| '*RSS*' (http://www2.kumc.edu/students/ezamir/rss/ezdiyaudio.xml) |'*Forum*' (http://ezdiyaudio.informe.com) ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Patrick Dixon wrote: > Well of course you can believe what you like. > > The phases 'well designed DAC' and 'practically immune to jitter' are > pretty vague themselves, but if there's a DAC out there that really is > completely immune to jitter, then I have yet to hear it. The phrases were carefully chosen to be vague. I don't think jitter is nearly the problem you and others do. To each his own. Its about the music. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Patrick Dixon;221834 Wrote: > It's not. Can you back that up, or are you simply making assertions? > > That's because the tests are not designed to show the effects of jitter > on an ASRC DAC. Why not? Jitter causes sidebands on ASRC DACs. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Pat Farrell;221291 Wrote: > > I believe that well designed DACs are practically immune to jitter. > Essentially immune to jitter, etc. So it practice, they are immune to > reasonable sources of jitter. > Well of course you can believe what you like. The phases 'well designed DAC' and 'practically immune to jitter' are pretty vague themselves, but if there's a DAC out there that really is completely immune to jitter, then I have yet to hear it. If you can hear a difference between different transports into the same DAC, or between different digital interconnects, then (assuming the bits are the same, which is a pretty fair assumption) you must be hearing the effects of jitter at the DAC. -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
opaqueice;221827 Wrote: > The Benchmark appears to be completely immune to jitterIt's not. opaqueice;221827 Wrote: > ... at least in all the tests I'm aware of. That's because the tests are not designed to show the effects of jitter on a ASRC DAC. -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
325xi;221778 Wrote: > > And if you mean that those "well designed" DACs are immune to jitter in > sense of "you won't hear it anyways" then I'm wrong addressee - I don't > care if I can hear it or not. > http://www.posthorn.com/Images/Bench/Bench_dac1_fft.gif There are no jitter sidebands down to -142 dB at least. The Benchmark appears to be completely immune to jitter, at least in all the tests I'm aware of. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Pat Farrell;221291 Wrote: > 325xi wrote: > > Pat Farrell;221208 Wrote: > >> I don't see any point in low jitter, the usual suspects, Benchmark, > >> Larvy, etc. are immune to jitter. > > > > Please, you first know there's no DAC truly immune to jitter. And > think > > about those who have different DACs, more prone to jitter? > > No, I don't know this. I don't even believe it. You may believe it, but > > I don't. > > I believe that well designed DACs are practically immune to jitter. > Essentially immune to jitter, etc. So it practice, they are immune to > reasonable sources of jitter. > Oh, well... Lavry himself asked not to be naive thinking his design is immune to jitter. Some do somewhat better then others in this regard, that's it. Also, if you noticed, there are very few DACs that have anything special for jitter handling in their design. Most try to market their on-chip PLL as "The Original Jitter Buster". And if you mean that those "well designed" DACs are immune to jitter in sense of "you won't hear it anyways" then I'm wrong addressee - I don't care if I can hear it or not. Pat Farrell;221291 Wrote: > > > Much more importantly, the Transporter is the audiophile product. > the SqueezeBox is the mass market product. I see no value in increasing > > a nebulous problem such as jitter output for folks using an external > DAC > in a mass market product, since mass market consumers aren't going to > know what jitter is. > That's what I meant - leave SB3 to be mass market product, and create kind of "prosumer" product, similar to Canon 40D in cameras - it sells fairly well even though it's not truly pro, nor a mass market product at its price point. Why I believe in separating digital from analog in SB4? All this talk that DAC chips cost pennies just doesn't make much sense here. This is not about chips. Well designed high quality analog stage WILL add substantially on the total price (I'm not talking about production costs), and in current situation when digital realm goes forward rather fast, while analog is pretty much settled, I prefer modular solution where I could exchange (upgrade) modules independently, and I apparently don't want to pay for integrated solution. -- 325xi simaudio nova cdp >> simaudio moon i-5 >> revel performa m20 on skylan stands via acoustic zen matrix reference ii and acoustic zen satori sb3 >> audioengine 5 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Pat Farrell;221291 Wrote: > > I also do not believe that "somewhat lower jitter" is a meaningful > requirement. First, its totally vague, and second, if lower is better, > > then we need to know how much is bad, and how much it needs to be > reduced to be important. > Stereophile says the jitter increases slightly when feeding 16 bit signals into the Transporter through an optical SPDIF, rather than streaming*. Perhaps if the device sounds better/worse when streaming vs. acting as a DAC, the 45ps p-p added jitter is a potential reason (?). I can recall at least one review (not Stereophile) where they said it sounds BETTER when used as a DAC, which kind of proves your point. * http://www.stereophile.com/mediaservers/207slim/index4.html -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
325xi wrote: > Pat Farrell;221208 Wrote: >> I don't see any point in low jitter, the usual suspects, Benchmark, >> Larvy, etc. are immune to jitter. > > Please, you first know there's no DAC truly immune to jitter. And think > about those who have different DACs, more prone to jitter? No, I don't know this. I don't even believe it. You may believe it, but I don't. I believe that well designed DACs are practically immune to jitter. Essentially immune to jitter, etc. So it practice, they are immune to reasonable sources of jitter. > I'd vote for purely digital device with improved connectivity options > (BNC, XLR), and somewhat lower jitter. I also do not believe that "somewhat lower jitter" is a meaningful requirement. First, its totally vague, and second, if lower is better, then we need to know how much is bad, and how much it needs to be reduced to be important. Much more importantly, the Transporter is the audiophile product. the SqueezeBox is the mass market product. I see no value in increasing a nebulous problem such as jitter output for folks using an external DAC in a mass market product, since mass market consumers aren't going to know what jitter is. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
True support for 24/96 or even higher - mostly for sake of compatibility. Pat Farrell;221208 Wrote: > I don't see any point in low jitter, the usual suspects, Benchmark, > Larvy, etc. are immune to jitter. Please, you first know there's no DAC truly immune to jitter. And think about those who have different DACs, more prone to jitter? I'd vote for purely digital device with improved connectivity options (BNC, XLR), and somewhat lower jitter. -- 325xi 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
I think Logitech, and Slim Devices before it, are mad. I would pedalling this platform like crazy to the world. The likes of JVC, Sony, Bose, high end audio manufacturers etc etc could easily integrate the slim server and squeezebox control hardware / API into their own lines. The real value would be licensing the technology - at a minimal and therefore attractive cost - and achieving a high market penetration. The business focus becomes development of a channel for your gear and the technical focus becomes creating product that's easy to integrate into third party products. It would be like the new "red book"...if it was cheap enough to license. Would be a killer. Just a small example, wouldn't you like a little portable system that not only played "mp3" but also included a squeezebox interface? It is idiocy to expect Logitech to replicate every kind of audio product. Instead why not let other companies, who between them fill every niche in the market, have access to the squeezebox architecture? Darren -- darrenyeats Monarchy CLD-M401 transport or SB3 -> Sony DAS-703ES DAC -> Krell KAV-300i -> PMC AB-1 (home-made room treatments and supports) darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Pat Farrell;221190 Wrote: > Please, can we get a meaningful subject line on this wildly OT > discussion? It hasn't been about a mythical SB4 in weeks. SB5.1, please. Lots of channels out (at least 6, but more is better), Transporter-quality analog. -- inguz inguz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
JJZolx wrote: > Anyway, the next big thing will be the new Jive-driven color remote > from Bould Design. Are you allowed to talk about that yet? Or is this just speculation? Granted, since Logitech sells cool remotes, and SqueezeBoxen and Transporters deserve better remotes, its kind obvious. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Chinanico;221204 Wrote: > For me the dream SB4 would be basically a SB3 WITHOUT the DAC but rather > with a better digital output (of the likes of the transporter, low > jitter, and most importantly 24/96). > > If this is driven by an audiophile need, it might not be incompatible > with mass market requirements: look at the amplifiers on sale right > now, the large part is made of "receivers" for home cinema, which > anyway come with at least 3 digital inputs. I think as an 'SB4' it would be a poor choice, having very little consumer market appeal. And at a price point of $700-1000 it would have virtually none. But as another audiophile product in a very sparse product line, I think it would be a great idea. True, the cost difference in terms of manufacturing may be just a matter of dollars. So create two new products - one with and one without the DAC and analog sections. You could easily price them several hundred dollars appart, despite the minimal manufacturing cost difference. Logitech could really stand to start fleshing out a more complete product line and hitting a couple different price points wouldn't be a bad idea. Anyway, the next big thing will be the new Jive-driven color remote from Bould Design. It'll be interesting to see if any new Squeezeboxes are released at the same time. I expect that we'll also see some stuff further along the Sonos line of built-in digital amplifiers and maybe some D to A, or maybe at least an analog input for hooking up an iPod. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Robin Bowes wrote: > Chinanico wrote: >> For me the dream SB4 would be basically a SB3 WITHOUT the DAC but rather >> with a better digital output (of the likes of the transporter, low >> jitter, and most importantly 24/96). > > True, but the DAC is likely a very small part of the cost of the unit - > the hardware, display, power supplies, etc. are the biggest costs. > Removing a chip and a couple of sockets from the design isn't going to > bring the price down very much and it makes the unit useless without an > external DAC. Only crazy audiophiles want an external DAC. I posted a while ago what the DAC chip costs, quantity one. Its under $2. There are no "sockets" anymore, all stuff is surface mount. as Robin writes, eliminating the DAC will save only a tiny amount, and a "better digial output" will easily eat any savings. I don't see any point in low jitter, the usual suspects, Benchmark, Larvy, etc. are immune to jitter. I can almost understand a desire for something cheaper than a Transporter and better than a SB3, but I'm not seeing anything in the thread that makes much economic sense. You can get a very good sound with a simple SB3 feeding it flac. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Chinanico wrote: > For me the dream SB4 would be basically a SB3 WITHOUT the DAC but rather > with a better digital output (of the likes of the transporter, low > jitter, and most importantly 24/96). > > If this is driven by an audiophile need, it might not be incompatible > with mass market requirements: look at the amplifiers on sale right > now, the large part is made of "receivers" for home cinema, which > anyway come with at least 3 digital inputs. True, but the DAC is likely a very small part of the cost of the unit - the hardware, display, power supplies, etc. are the biggest costs. Removing a chip and a couple of sockets from the design isn't going to bring the price down very much and it makes the unit useless without an external DAC. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
For me the dream SB4 would be basically a SB3 WITHOUT the DAC but rather with a better digital output (of the likes of the transporter, low jitter, and most importantly 24/96). If this is driven by an audiophile need, it might not be incompatible with mass market requirements: look at the amplifiers on sale right now, the large part is made of "receivers" for home cinema, which anyway come with at least 3 digital inputs. -- Chinanico Chinanico's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12794 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Pat Farrell;221190 Wrote: > > > Please, can we get a meaningful subject line on this wildly OT > discussion? It hasn't been about a mythical SB4 in weeks. Ok, I'll bite. Match current SB transport with DAC that is somewhere between lavry/benchmark and these new Chinese DACs (Citypulse and similar), no new screens and buttons, add digital in, put it into the decent housing - nothing fancy - keep PS inside the housing, make it somewhere between $700 - $800 and that'd be good enough. -- slimkid The sound stage will open up, bass will tighten and the imaging will improve. DVD performance will also increase substantially. slimkid's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8881 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
325xi wrote: > darrenyeats;221135 Wrote: >> I am not saying Linux is as easy as Win/Mac... But if you're reasonably >> technical and curious, then Linux can be seen as an educational >> experience. To use it you will learn a lot about computers in general, >> e.g. networking, security etc which will help with all OSs :-) >> Darren > > :) > I'm more then reasonably technical, and yet I don't understand why > would I chose something that is not "as easy as Win/Mac", when I > actually have... Win/Mac? Because there are trade-offs between "easy" and "powerful" and/or stable. I have XP machines too and, whilst my desktop PC (a laptop actually) is only restarted for kernel upgrades (current uptime 52 days), any Windows boxes I manage need rebooting every couple of days. Consider another example of "easy" vs. "powerful" - search and replace in a text editor. Simple plain-text search & replace is easy to use, but you are limited as to what you can replace. regexp search and replace is immensely powerful but, ahem, not always easy. For example, say I had a list of CDs in a text file, something like this: Jimi Hendrix - All Along The Watchtower (1991) Jimi Hendrix - Band Of Gypsys (1991) Jimi Hendrix - Hendrix In The West (1989) Jimi Hendrix - Kiss the Sky (1984) Jimi Hendrix - Smash Hits (1989) Jimi Hendrix - The Jimi Hendrix Concerts (1989) And I want to map them onto their location in my library like this: Jimi Hendrix - All Along The Watchtower (1991) /music/Jimi Hendrix/(1991) All Along The Watchtower Jimi Hendrix - Band Of Gypsys (1991)/music/Jimi Hendrix/(1991) Band Of Gypsys Jimi Hendrix - Hendrix In The West (1989) /music/Jimi Hendrix/(1989) Hendrix In The West Jimi Hendrix - Kiss the Sky (1984) /music/Jimi Hendrix/(1984) Kiss the Sky Jimi Hendrix - Smash Hits (1989) /music/Jimi Hendrix/(1989) Smash Hits Jimi Hendrix - The Jimi Hendrix Concerts (1989) /music/Jimi Hendrix/(1989) The Jimi Hendrix Concerts Well, this regex replacement expression (actually a vi command) will do the job: %s/^\([^-]*\) - \([^(]*\) (\([^(]*\)).*/\0\t\/music\/\1\/(\3) \2/ R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
325xi wrote: > I just ordered a new box to replace my old Dell, with good RAID > controller to accommodate my CD collection and possibly video if I find > something similar to SB to stream DVD... Q6600 cpu, etc. The only OS I'd > ever consider to install there is XP, or Vista when it matures. Sorry. No need to apologise. It's your choice in the end. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
325xi;221138 Wrote: > :) > I'm more then reasonably technical, and yet I don't understand why > would I chose something that is not "as easy as Win/Mac", when I > actually have... Win/Mac? I find Linux easier than Windows or MacOS... but then I dislike gui's for anything other than "a way to have 20 xterms open". Mice seem very inefficient to me: why do i have to keep moving my hand off the keyboard and then back onto it...? Annoying. It really depends on what you are used to: we have recycled some aging computers here at work to be Linux boxes for people... they have little or no Windows or Mac experience (and no Linux experience). They think they are running Windows... and things just work for them. (The only problems have been things like resizing the "start bar" equivalent so that it no longer showed and other silly user tricks.) If I had set them up, I would have enabled ssh so that I could maintain them without moving my ass from the chair, but, they aren't my doing. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
I just ordered a new box to replace my old Dell, with good RAID controller to accommodate my CD collection and possibly video if I find something similar to SB to stream DVD... Q6600 cpu, etc. The only OS I'd ever consider to install there is XP, or Vista when it matures. Sorry. -- 325xi 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
darrenyeats;221135 Wrote: > I am not saying Linux is as easy as Win/Mac... But if you're reasonably > technical and curious, then Linux can be seen as an educational > experience. To use it you will learn a lot about computers in general, > e.g. networking, security etc which will help with all OSs :-) > Darren :) I'm more then reasonably technical, and yet I don't understand why would I chose something that is not "as easy as Win/Mac", when I actually have... Win/Mac? -- 325xi simaudio nova cdp >> simaudio moon i-5 >> revel performa m20 on skylan stands via acoustic zen matrix reference ii and acoustic zen satori sb3 >> audioengine 5 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Robin Bowes;221015 Wrote: > 325xi wrote:[color=blue] > > Unix carries too much from legacy systems, starting with vi, which > leads > > to adopting legacy work style. Widely available X-apps are so > horrible > > that I don't always find them worth the bandwidth they take - and > they > > aren't always available, which gets me back to antique vi. > > > > There are many alternatives to vi (nano, pico, etc.) although I > personally wouldn't use anything else for general editing in a > terminal > session. > You can choose which flavour of GUI you want with Debian 4.0 - Gnome or KDE - both of which come with simple text editors which have a small footprint and are easy to use (namely, gedit and kedit). I am not saying Linux is as easy as Win/Mac... But if you're reasonably technical and curious, then Linux can be seen as an educational experience. To use it you will learn a lot about computers in general, e.g. networking, security etc which will help with all OSs :-) Darren -- darrenyeats Monarchy CLD-M401 transport or SB3 -> Sony DAS-703ES DAC -> Krell KAV-300i -> PMC AB-1 (home-made room treatments and supports) darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
erland;221018 Wrote: > This might be the wrong thread to discuss this, but here we go. > > I kind of both agree and disagree. > The recent Linux distributions is so many times better than what Linux > looked like just 2 years back in time. I've only used Ubuntu during the > last years, but as I understand it there are several other distributions > that are on the same level. There is still a bit left until it reaches > the easiness of Windows for inexperienced users, but for me I have to > say the Linux just feels better than Windows most of the time. I have > both Ubuntu and XP installed on the same computer in a dual-boot > configuration and Ubuntu feels a lot faster compared to Windows. The > only disadvantage with Ubuntu, is that there are some things that > doesn't work as goods as on Windows > > > IMHO, the default text editor in Windows (notepad) isn't that much > better than vi. And No, I'm not trying to start a flamewar against all > vi-lovers. > Linux has got a LOT better in just the last few years - I agree totally. I use Debian 4.0 and it is much easier to install and use than ever. If the main aim is ease of use, then I see a lot of Mac users jumping out of their seats. They would argue theirs is a better alternative than Windows (and I would tend to agree with them). What I like about vi is that it works over a text terminal session, so with just a telnet or ssh session you have a functional editor. No GUI required. Darren -- darrenyeats Monarchy CLD-M401 transport or SB3 -> Sony DAS-703ES DAC -> Krell KAV-300i -> PMC AB-1 (home-made room treatments and supports) darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
325xi;221011 Wrote: > Unix carries too much from legacy systems, starting with vi, which leads > to adopting legacy work style. Widely available X-apps are so horrible > that I don't always find them worth the bandwidth they take - and they > aren't always available, which gets me back to antique vi. Yes, I know, > there are some cases when you simply can't live without Unix, large > enterprise systems is a good example, but I would never touch it if I > have a choice. This might be the wrong thread to discuss this, but here we go. I kind of both agree and disagree. The recent Linux distributions is so many times better than what Linux looked like just 2 years back in time. I've only used Ubuntu during the last years, but as I understand it there are several other distributions that are on the same level. There is still a bit left until it reaches the easiness of Windows for inexperienced users, but for me I have to say the Linux just feels better than Windows most of the time. I have both Ubuntu and XP installed on the same computer in a dual-boot configuration and Ubuntu feels a lot faster compared to Windows. The only disadvantage with Ubuntu, is that there are some things that doesn't work as goods as on Windows, for example: - iPod synchroninzation (since iTunes doesn't run on Linux) - Photo Managment (There is nothing that is close to iMatch or Adobe Lightroom on Linux) - And some other small stuffs But, I do agree with you on one part. Even though most of the settings can be changed from a graphical user interface these days, I still tends to have a command shell open where I do these kind of things. The reason isn't really that the graphical applications are bad, it's just faster to do it from the command shell when you know how to. I'm pretty sure the situation would be the same on Windows if it had a decent command shell, which it currently doesn't. IMHO, the default text editor in Windows (notepad) isn't that much better than vi. And No, I'm not trying to start a flamewar against all vi-lovers. Vi works, but unless you are really advanced the only shortcuts you remember is how to insert/delete a character/line and exit with/without saving. With only these shortcuts it isn't that much better than notepad, I even think notepad feels better and that's pretty bad. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.homeip.net) 'My download page' (http://erland.homeip.net/download) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library and RandomPlayList plugins' (http://wiki.erland.homeip.net/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
lofty;220961 Wrote: > If Logitech (or a partner, or even this community) were to create a > Windows smart client application that could manage all the same things > that the web UI does, that would be a very good thing for them. And as > long as they stick to maintaining this open API, the options are wide > open for them and us.The third party application "Moose" which already is > available is a good start on this. I don't think it contains any configuration parts yet, but I think most of the "music playing" related parts of SlimServer is available in Moose already today. Moose download page: http://www.rusticrhino.com/drlovegrove/ -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.homeip.net) 'My download page' (http://erland.homeip.net/download) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library and RandomPlayList plugins' (http://wiki.erland.homeip.net/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
325xi wrote: > Unix carries too much from legacy systems, starting with vi, which leads > to adopting legacy work style. Widely available X-apps are so horrible > that I don't always find them worth the bandwidth they take - and they > aren't always available, which gets me back to antique vi. Yes, I know, > there are some cases when you simply can't live without Unix, large > enterprise systems is a good example, but I would never touch it if I > have a choice. There are many alternatives to vi (nano, pico, etc.) although I personally wouldn't use anything else for general editing in a terminal session. Have you actually seen/used a recent Unix or Linux distribution? Writing it off because you don't like vi seems a little premature. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Unix carries too much from legacy systems, starting with vi, which leads to adopting legacy work style. Widely available X-apps are so horrible that I don't always find them worth the bandwidth they take - and they aren't always available, which gets me back to antique vi. Yes, I know, there are some cases when you simply can't live without Unix, large enterprise systems is a good example, but I would never touch it if I have a choice. -- 325xi 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
325xi wrote: > I prefer Java to anything. Simple, effective and highly convenient. I > really don't get all this attachment to "Unix lifestyle". Why not to > get back to perforated cards then, to have a complete "old world" > experience? I'm not sure what you mean by "Unix lifestyle" and Unix is anything but "old world". What's your point exactly? R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Pat Farrell;221006 Wrote: > 325xi wrote: > > One cannot choose languages and shells working on existing system. > If > > everything here is in ksh I've got to keep it that way. > > And frankly, if I was to do serious things I'd use Java or may be, > less > > likely C++, not those %$^*%% scripts. > > wow, I haven't been in that kind of space in a long long time. > Nearly every system has a half dozen shells installed, you can just #! > > to whatever you want. > > > likely C++, not those %$^*%% scripts. > > I agree, the %$1 scripts can be infuriating. > perl was designed to be a better shell hacking language than > bash/borne/csh/tsh/ > > C++ would be way down the list, probably not in the top ten. > I'd chose ObjectiveC or Smalltalk before C++. > > YMMV, etc. I prefer Java to anything. Simple, effective and highly convenient. I really don't get all this attachment to "Unix lifestyle". Why not to get back to perforated cards then, to have a complete "old world" experience? -- 325xi simaudio nova cdp >> simaudio moon i-5 >> revel performa m20 on skylan stands via acoustic zen matrix reference ii and acoustic zen satori sb3 >> audioengine 5 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
pfarrell;214203 Wrote: > This is way OT, but use bash, not ksh. I haven't used awk in 15+ years. > Learn perl, it has a dumb syntax but can do anything. Plus you can then > join the SlimServer developers list. > > I have to admit that you *need* to use the shell to do serious stuff, > and the learning curve is steep. So queue up your favorite tunes on > your SqueezeBox to make the time go fast. One cannot choose languages and shells working on existing system. If everything here is in ksh I've got to keep it that way. And frankly, if I was to do serious things I'd use Java or may be, less likely C++, not those %$^*%% scripts. -- 325xi simaudio nova cdp >> simaudio moon i-5 >> revel performa m20 on skylan stands via acoustic zen matrix reference ii and acoustic zen satori sb3 >> audioengine 5 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
lofty;220961 Wrote: > I know I'm a little late to this old thread here, but I don't see how > creating a rich-client windows-based "skin" for SlimServer would > conflict with any of those two points. > > The key is the API. If Logitech continues to invest in building on the > core SlimServer API they already have, and make it completely > services-oriented, than anybody can create skins that take full > advantage of a particular platform. > > I prefer to browse my music library in Windows Media Player 11 with all > its UI richness and album art support, than I do browsing the SlimServer > web UI. If Logitech (or a partner, or even this community) were to > create a Windows smart client application that could manage all the > same things that the web UI does, that would be a very good thing for > them. And as long as they stick to maintaining this open API, the > options are wide open for them and us. Totally agree. However after working in large software companies for 10 years I would say once you let Logitech develop proprietary software alternative to the existing open source platform, the latter may eventually find itself expelled. -- 325xi simaudio nova cdp >> simaudio moon i-5 >> revel performa m20 on skylan stands via acoustic zen matrix reference ii and acoustic zen satori sb3 >> audioengine 5 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
erland;211495 Wrote: > But... > If I were Logitech and I liked to develop a Windows based solution with > fat device hardware, I have a hard time to motivate why to buy Slim > Devices. From my point of view the two major things that is unique with > Slim Devices as a company are: > - Experience with open source based solutions where developing the > software together with the community is important. > - Experience with slim hardware devices > > I know I'm a little late to this old thread here, but I don't see how creating a rich-client windows-based "skin" for SlimServer would conflict with any of those two points. The key is the API. If Logitech continues to invest in building on the core SlimServer API they already have, and make it completely services-oriented, than anybody can create skins that take full advantage of a particular platform. I prefer to browse my music library in Windows Media Player 11 with all its UI richness and album art support, than I do browsing the SlimServer web UI. If Logitech (or a partner, or even this community) were to create a Windows smart client application that could manage all the same things that the web UI does, that would be a very good thing for them. And as long as they stick to maintaining this open API, the options are wide open for them and us. -- lofty lofty's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12703 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
325xi;212471 Wrote: > > I just moved to another position where I have to work with... Unix, so > I'm learning ksh, awk, etc... All this stuff makes me very angry... This is way OT, but use bash, not ksh. I haven't used awk in 15+ years. Learn perl, it has a dumb syntax but can do anything. Plus you can then join the SlimServer developers list. I have to admit that you *need* to use the shell to do serious stuff, and the learning curve is steep. So queue up your favorite tunes on your SqueezeBox to make the time go fast. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Since the only reason for me to buy music streaming device would be ... well, to play music, and I'm not on the mission to save the world, I really couldn't care less what OS is in the background. -- slimkid The sound stage will open up, bass will tighten and the imaging will improve. DVD performance will also increase substantially. slimkid's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8881 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Pat Farrell;211498 Wrote: > JJZolx wrote: > > If the next generation of > > streaming media product released by Logitech were powered by a slick > > Windows-only application, would anyone really be that surprised? > > Then I would be as angry as most of your postings. > > I use Windoze only when I am paid to do so. 18 years ago, I was a > Windows evangelist. I've changed. Windows-only applications are simply > > not acceptable to me. > > YMMV. > > -- > Pat > http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html I simply can't stand Unix - any of them. MS RULEZ!!! How is that? 8*) I just moved to another position where I have to work with... Unix, so I'm learning ksh, awk, etc... All this stuff makes me very angry... -- 325xi 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
** EDIT ** ignore me, i can't read. -- funkstar funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
erland;211521 Wrote: > Here is something to aim at for the user interface of the system: > http://www.microsoft.com/surface/ > > I'm not sure this would be the most useful in all situations, but it > would sure be a cool way to demonstrate the SqueezeBox for friends. > There is some playlist making shown in the middle of "The Power" > presentation. > > I'm just talking about the user interface, not the server part of the > system. Isn't it similar to the iPhone user interface? -- Nostromo Nostromo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6322 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
erland;211521 Wrote: > Here is something to aim at for the user interface of the system: > http://www.microsoft.com/surface/ > > I'm not sure this would be the most useful in all situations, but it > would sure be a cool way to demonstrate the SqueezeBox for friends. > There is some playlist making shown in the middle of "The Power" > presentation. > > I'm just talking about the user interface, not the server part of the > system. Microsoft really has some cool applications (some... ;-D). Check out this the fantastic "sci-fi" TED presentation of Photosynth: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/129 Sorry for the OT. -- TCM 'Squeezebox 3' (http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html) -> 'Trends Audio TA-10.1' (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/trends/ta10.html) -> 'QLN QuBiC 121' (http://www.minhembio.com/produkt/163409) 'WhatTheFuckHiFi.com' (http://whatthefuckhifi.com/) 'Last.fm: ThisCharmingMan' (http://www.last.fm/user/ThisCharmingMan) 'Save Internet Radio' (http://www.savenetradio.org) TCM's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=702 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Here is something to aim at for the user interface of the system: http://www.microsoft.com/surface/ I'm not sure this would be the most useful in all situations, but it would sure be a cool way to demonstrate the SqueezeBox for friends. There is some playlist making shown in the middle of "The Power" presentation. I'm just talking about the user interface, not the server part of the system. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.homeip.net) 'My download page' (http://erland.homeip.net/download) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library and RandomPlayList plugins' (http://wiki.erland.homeip.net/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
No, its the -price- of the equipment that matters. Its all about conspicuous consumption ;-) -- Nostromo Nostromo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6322 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Pat Farrell;211511 Wrote: > > This is the Audiophile forum, not the corporate whining forum. > > Its the music that matters. > In this forum? I thought it was the equipment that mattered! :) Steve. -- SteveEast SteveEast's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4193 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
jonheal wrote: > I like Windows. They lets in the light! Yes, and Pella and Anderson make very good windows. But I haven't seen any audiophile products from either of those companies. This is the Audiophile forum, not the corporate whining forum. Its the music that matters. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Pat Farrell;211498 Wrote: > JJZolx wrote: > > If the next generation of > > streaming media product released by Logitech were powered by a slick > > Windows-only application, would anyone really be that surprised? > > Then I would be as angry as most of your postings. > > I use Windoze only when I am paid to do so. 18 years ago, I was a > Windows evangelist. I've changed. Windows-only applications are simply > > not acceptable to me. > > YMMV. > > -- > Pat > http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html I like Windows. They lets in the light! -- jonheal Jon Heal says: Have a nice day! http://www.theheals.org/ ~~~ SB3 (wired - 6.3.1) | Home-brew PC running XP Pro | DENON DRA-395 | PSB Stratus Bronze (2) | Outlaw Audio LFM-2 (1) | DIY Speaker Cables | Dayton Audio Interconnects jonheal's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2133 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
JJZolx;211505 Wrote: > And if those products for which you have no interest were driven by > Windows-only software, would you really care? Sheesh, Jim, can I get a break here? So far we have had the following predictions and more: - No more Linux support - No more Mac support - No more Squeezenetwork - No more SlimServer - No more open source - No more Sean and Dean - No more Transporter - US production employees fired - Worse hardware quality It has now been EIGHT MONTHS since the acquisition and so far not a single one of those things has happened. If you're not going to take my word for it that SlimServer is not going away and we're not switching to Windows-only software, can you at least please wait until one of the above actually happens to complain about it. I don't often ask for the benefit of the doubt, but given our track record I think it would be fair to grant it just this once. Please please give it a rest. Thanks. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Pat Farrell;211498 Wrote: > Then I would be as angry as most of your postings. > > I use Windoze only when I am paid to do so. 18 years ago, I was a > Windows evangelist. I've changed. Windows-only applications are simply > > not acceptable to me. You may find that you have absolutely no interest in the next generation of Logitech streaming media products. If they're much of a departure from current Squeezeboxes - say using a TV display, or requiring a controller ala Sonos, maybe even moving off in the direction of doing video streaming, then I suppose many existing customers would have zero interest. And if those products for which you have no interest were driven by Windows-only software, would you really care? -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
JJZolx wrote: > If the next generation of > streaming media product released by Logitech were powered by a slick > Windows-only application, would anyone really be that surprised? Then I would be as angry as most of your postings. I use Windoze only when I am paid to do so. 18 years ago, I was a Windows evangelist. I've changed. Windows-only applications are simply not acceptable to me. YMMV. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
JJZolx;211490 Wrote: > If the next generation of streaming media product released by Logitech > were powered by a slick Windows-only application, would anyone really > be that surprised? I, for one, would be extremely surprised. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
JJZolx;211490 Wrote: > If the next generation of streaming media product released by Logitech > were powered by a slick Windows-only application, would anyone really > be that surprised? I can see your point, because the massmarket is clearly using Windows and is used to closed source applications. They are probably also more used to fat than slim devices. But... If I were Logitech and I liked to develop a Windows based solution with fat device hardware, I have a hard time to motivate why to buy Slim Devices. From my point of view the two major things that is unique with Slim Devices as a company are: - Experience with open source based solutions where developing the software together with the community is important. - Experience with slim hardware devices Sure, the audio quality is good, but to be honest, there are other companies that have more experience in making good audio products than Slim Devices. So, to me it seems like there must have been better alternatives available to Logitech if they were interested in making mass market fat devices supported by a Windows application. But you might be seeing something that I don't. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.homeip.net) 'My download page' (http://erland.homeip.net/download) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library and RandomPlayList plugins' (http://wiki.erland.homeip.net/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
JJZolx;211490 Wrote: > I absolutely LOVE the product. And I think the company isn't half bad, > either. Obviously some very talented folks brought it to the point at > which it was sold. > > Yes, it's just my opinion, and I hope that's clear to anyone reading my > postings. I'm just not afraid to state my opinions and feelings about > what I think could use improvement. > > Maybe my concern over SlimServer is that I like the current web-based > server approach so much that I'd hate to see it replaced or relegated > only to supporting legacy products. If the next generation of > streaming media product released by Logitech were powered by a slick > Windows-only application, would anyone really be that surprised? Actually - personally - I'd be very happy...especially if it was as fast as Moose or similar. I'm bored waiting for those pages to come up... ...but I don't expect very many other people to agree with me. Unlike many people here I have no problem with "Windows" - I have always used it since DOS went away... I would much rather have a slick - and VERY FAST - interface than this rather clunky browser thing. No disrespect to the people that designed and coded it - I know why you went down that road. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... ...SB3+TACT+Altmann+MF DACXV3/Linn tri-amped Aktiv 5.1 system and some very expensive cables ;o) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Pat Farrell;211485 Wrote: > JJZolx wrote: > > SlimServer was as good as gone the day Logitech bought the company. > > This is clearly your personal opinion, one that I do not share. > But what I can't understand at all is why you, JJZolx, are so prolific > in your postings when you clearly dislike the product and company. I absolutely LOVE the product. And I think the company isn't half bad, either. Obviously some very talented folks brought it to the point at which it was sold. Yes, it's just my opinion, and I hope that's clear to anyone reading my postings. I'm just not afraid to state my opinions and feelings about what I think could use improvement. Maybe my concern over SlimServer is that I like the current web-based server approach so much that I'd hate to see it replaced or relegated only to supporting legacy products. If the next generation of streaming media product released by Logitech were powered by a slick Windows-only application, would anyone really be that surprised? -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
JJZolx wrote: > SlimServer was as good as gone the day Logitech bought the company. This is clearly your personal opinion, one that I do not share. But what I can't understand at all is why you, JJZolx, are so prolific in your postings when you clearly dislike the product and company. Why not get a life? You are not convincing anyone, just preaching to a small choir of disguntled folks. Why not spend your time on something you like. I like my three SqueezeBoxen and Transporter. I have no problems with my SlimServer. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
JJZolx;211319 Wrote: > SlimServer was as good as gone the day Logitech bought the company. I'm not exactly sure what this is based on. We just released 6.5.2... post acquisition. If you care to look you will see that the developers are hard at work on the next big release (http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/latest/7.0/ - I wouldn't download it, it is still very much in the early stages). For more information go read the developers threads. There are no plans to drop SlimServer. None... as in... none. -- mvalera Michael Valera Online Communities Manager slimdevices.com mvalera's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11086 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
erland;211452 Wrote: > If I'm not mistaken, Apple provide their own streaming hardware in > Airport Express, I'm pretty sure they would do everything they can to > make it as hard as possible for a competitor (like Logitech) to make a > tight integration with iTunes. It doesn't need to be that tight - as long as the SB can get access to the files via the network, it can read and decide them itself. It might need a small app to monitor changes to the iTunes directory and provide a socket for data transfer, but that can be much, much simpler than Slimserver. Personally, I'd write a plug-in for iTunes that keeps the player up-to-date. I've written several and one of them sends information to a remote connection. The Airport express probably uses hardware decoding as it's cheaper than using a general purpose CPU and all the ancillary hardware that that entails. erland;211452 Wrote: > But making the SqueezeBox be a fat device instead of a slim device, > would be a radical change of the current architecture. Some problems > with this: > - It would require everyone to by a new SB (SB4?) to get the > functionality > - It would probably not be compatible with previous SB versions, so if > you have multiple SB's in your home you would have to replace them > all. > - The number of plugin developers would decrease radically since it is > a lot different to program an embedded device compared to server > software. At least there is less people available that have the > knowledge to program an embedded device. I'm not sure that any of the reasons you give have any relevance to a product that is targeted at the larger mass market. They don't have pre-existing SB systems and if a plug-in is that useful, it should be in the product anyway. There is no reason to not keep the old software/systems going as well if it is profitable - the Transporter didn't make the Squeezebox obsolete. It's just a thought - I'm not suggesting it as the way to go as it is very different to the current philosophy, just that if I were part of Logitech's management I would be considering all options to make the system more attractive to the huge number of iTunes users (100 million at least). -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
CardinalFang;211376 Wrote: > In any case, many of us already use iTunes for managing our libraries > and that doesn't mean using DRM or lossy formats. The only difference > I'm suggesting is that you could consider putting some of what is in > slimserver, i.e. reading data from network drives, into a Squeezebox. A > thicker client that doesn't need the server to stream data to it. It's > additional firmware that may need more memory and perhaps a hike in > processor speed, but since we already use up spare cycles doing > visualisers, why not use it to grab files directly from networked > drives and use the iTunes XML library descriptors like Slim does now? If I'm not mistaken, Apple provide their own streaming hardware in Airport Express, I'm pretty sure they would do everything they can to make it as hard as possible for a competitor (like Logitech) to make a tight integration with iTunes. I would have no use of the iTunes integration myself, since the only 24/7 server that exists in my home use Linux as operating system. Although, it would be reasonable to try to make the current iTunes integration easier to use. Because as already mentioned in another thread, most SqueezeBox users probably already have iTunes on their computers. Making it reallyl easy to setup SlimServer to use the iTunes integration might be a good idea. But making the SqueezeBox be a fat device instead of a slim device, would be a radical change of the current architecture. Some problems with this: - It would require everyone to by a new SB (SB4?) to get the functionality - It would probably not be compatible with previous SB versions, so if you have multiple SB's in your home you would have to replace them all. - The number of plugin developers would decrease radically since it is a lot different to program an embedded device compared to server software. At least there is less people available that have the knowledge to program an embedded device. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.homeip.net) 'My download page' (http://erland.homeip.net/download) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library and RandomPlayList plugins' (http://wiki.erland.homeip.net/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
amey01;211333 Wrote: > I want to rewind all the time Try the Song Scanner plugin. It's not technically REW/FF, but it allows you to quickly access any part of the file, starting from the current playback position. It works in fairly fine increments and shows a bar graph of the current position. -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
cliveb;211367 Wrote: > This is a joke, right? You can't be serious. Why would we ever want to > be at the mercy of what Apple or Microsoft decide to do in the future? Because they own the mass market for music and if it's Logitech's aim to make Slim more mass market, then they ought to consider it. It eliminates a lot of the hurdles for the average user. In any case, many of us already use iTunes for managing our libraries and that doesn't mean using DRM or lossy formats. The only difference I'm suggesting is that you could consider putting some of what is in slimserver, i.e. reading data from network drives, into a Squeezebox. A thicker client that doesn't need the server to stream data to it. It's additional firmware that may need more memory and perhaps a hike in processor speed, but since we already use up spare cycles doing visualisers, why not use it to grab files directly from networked drives and use the iTunes XML library descriptors like Slim does now? -- CardinalFang CardinalFang's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=962 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
cliveb;211367 Wrote: > As for Apple: recently Steve Jobs has become a cuddly teddy-bear because > he's come out against DRM. But he didn't do it for philanthropic reasons > - it is a hard-nosed business decision. Under the good-guy exterior, > he's still a megalomaniac. You can hardly blame him for wanting what's best for his business. I, for example, will never buy into any music format embuggered by DRM for as long as there's an alternative, and that's bad news for anyone trying to sell downloadable music and the devices to play it on. I do wonder whether the impact that DRM has on the electronics industry has ever been properly assessed, and compared against the alleged benefit that it has to the music and movie industries. For example, - how much R&D effort is used in implementing decryption algorithms, and in hiding the keys to avoid having them revoked? - how much additional hardware is required in each and every player? What impact does this have on cost and battery life? - what do licences for things like AACS cost the industry? - what about start-ups who maybe can't afford such licences? Or who would like to offer new and innovative features that would benefit the consumer but which wouldn't comply with licensing restrictions? (For example: want a Blu-ray player that'll stream wirelessly to the Linux box in the study? Forget it! But the reason has nothing to do with technology...) - how about lost sales of equipment, made less desirable to consumers because of, say, the inability to record, when such a feature would otherwise be trivial? The sad thing is, S/PDIF is probably the last interface that we'll see that's straightforward for manufacturers to use, without having to pay silly money for specs and licences that come with overbearing restrictions on what can be done with them. Look at the hi-fi industry: loads of small companies making products that offer superb performance across a whole range of price points. Now look at home cinema and see how few there are in comparison. In the HDMI / HDCP era it's only going to get worse, and the reason has nothing to do with technology :( -- AndyC_772 AndyC_772's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
CardinalFang;211359 Wrote: > An alternative would be to drop SlimServer completely and make future > Squeezeboxes work in a more integrated way with iTunes and Windows > media. This is a joke, right? You can't be serious. Why would we ever want to be at the mercy of what Apple or Microsoft decide to do in the future? Nobody trusts Microsoft, of course. As for Apple: recently Steve Jobs has become a cuddly teddy-bear because he's come out against DRM. But he didn't do it for philanthropic reasons - it is a hard-nosed business decision. Under the good-guy exterior, he's still a megalomaniac. -- cliveb Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
JJZolx;211319 Wrote:
> Hmmm... Unless the new "Squeezebox" is a complete and total mess of a
> system including a CD-ROM drive, I don't see this end of things being
> improved upon. The best Logitech might do is to develop a
> jack-of-all-trades ("and master of none"?) music manager to be run on
> your PC. I dunno, that strikes me as a very big software project and a
> lot to give away just to sell $128.88 music boxes.
An alternative would be to drop SlimServer completely and make future
Squeezeboxes work in a more integrated way with iTunes and Windows
media. Now that DRM has been dropped from some of the music and since
iTunes is a complete music management suite, it would solve the need to
maintain their own music management and server software in a stroke. It
would need a thicker client and that's a diversion from existing
philosophy, but it would make it more scalable as well.
Of course there's already AppleTV, but there's still room for a
multi-room/audiophile solution that doesn't need a TV in every room.
--
CardinalFang
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
erland;211329 Wrote: > > The problem here is of course that the music industry wouldn't allow > this unless the FLAC is encrypted and copy protected in some way so it > is impossible to use it on another computer. I am afraid that you are 100% right with this statement. Before the big music companies will realise that due to the nature of digital music their business model has changed and adapt to the new situation wisely they will continue to throw a lot of money into lawyers' mouths and harass the people who actually buy their music with copy protection, DRM and new methods they will invent for a long time to come. I will never buy lossy compressed music, be it with or without DRM. Fortunately I already own a lot of CDs with good music and am not into contemporary music, so I am free to look for older CD pressings and buy them when I find good offers. Bye, signor_rossi. -- signor_rossi signor_rossi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11941 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
pfarrell;211307 Wrote: > Rewind? Please be kind, rewind? > > I'd love to see your mythical 1982 CD player. From the Sony site: > "On August 31, 1982, an announcement was made in Tokyo that four > companies, Sony, CBS/Sony, Philips, and Polygram had jointly developed > the world's first CD system. These companies announced that they would > commence domestic sales in the autumn. " > > I bought my first CD player in late 84 early 85. Before that, they cost > a grand and there were no CDs for sale, only records. The first Tower > Records opened in Washington DC at the same time, it was mind boggling > to see their store, they had over a thousand CDs for sale. And it was > only 5 blocks from The White House. > > Aside from the history, why would you want a rewind function? > The only button on my SqueezeBox remote that I use is "Play" I want to rewind all the time - I'm an audiophile and I want to hear every bit of the music. If I miss something (because someone in my family speaks to me) then that is a reason. Secondly, I am always wanting to listen to a particular naunce or part of the song again to analyse it. Thirdly, for a demonstration, I may want to FF to a particular spot in a song. Fourthly, fifthly, sixthly the list goes on. Fact is - every CD player has done this well - there is no reason why the Squeezebox shouldn't do it. Technical or not - if the feature is advertised then it should work. That aside, doesn't the Squeezebox have a certain amount of buffer memory - why can't that be used for the FF / REW in the Squeezebox itself (in its native format)? -- amey01 amey01's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11274 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
erland;211329 Wrote: > The problem here is of course that the music industry wouldn't allow > this unless the FLAC is encrypted and copy protected in some way so it > is impossible to use it on another computer. Sure they would. Apple has done the hard work by convincing the music industry that DRM is a hindrance to selling more digital music. I have two major questions, though: Whether they'd charge a premium (as some other online stores do) for lossless downloads? I've never quite understood this pricing philosophy, unless it's to pay for additional bandwidth. You're buying a license to use the music, which is no different if it's 128kb mp3 or full-quality Flac. The mp3s at $1.00 or more each already make albums plenty expensive. Whether there would be enough of a market for lossless music to justify the huge expense of setting up such a store, the disk space to store 100's of thousands of CDs, the huge amounts of bandwidth, the large number of web servers required. Not to mention they may just have to rip the CDs themselves. I'd imagine getting lossless digital files directly from the music companies would be even more of a hassle. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
JJZolx;211319 Wrote: > A more plausible scenario is that they'd jump on the bandwagon with > everyone else on the planet and open a digital music store. They might > even distinguish themselves for a short while if they offered lossless > Flac downloads of music that aren't available elsewhere. This would actually be pretty cool. A music store integrated with the SB/SlimServer where you can browse all the worlds music directly on your SB/SlimServer, when you hit the "Buy" button on the remote it would download a correctly tagged FLAC version of the song/album to your local SlimServer together with album art and other details. A short time after it has started the download it can also start to play it, some buffer time would be required since many doesn't have a broadband connection that can stream the FLAC fast enough. The next time you browse to the same song/album, you don't have to buy it since it is already available in your local SlimServer. The problem here is of course that the music industry wouldn't allow this unless the FLAC is encrypted and copy protected in some way so it is impossible to use it on another computer. -- erland Erland Isaksson 'My homepage' (http://erland.homeip.net) 'My download page' (http://erland.homeip.net/download) (Developer of 'TrackStat, SQLPlayList, DynamicPlayList, Custom Browse, Custom Scan, Custom Skip, Multi Library and RandomPlayList plugins' (http://wiki.erland.homeip.net/index.php/Category:SlimServer)) erland's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3124 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
cliveb;207593 Wrote:
> It strikes me that the existing hardware is already fine for the mass
> market. The barrier to the Squeezebox becoming a mainstream product is
> the backend - the slightly geeky nature of Slimserver
SlimServer was as good as gone the day Logitech bought the company.
> and the somewhat involved process of ripping CDs and tagging files. I
> predict that Logitech will focus on these issues rather than mess with
> the Squeezebox itself.
Hmmm... Unless the new "Squeezebox" is a complete and total mess of a
system including a CD-ROM drive, I don't see this end of things being
improved upon. The best Logitech might do is to develop a
jack-of-all-trades ("and master of none"?) music manager to be run on
your PC. I dunno, that strikes me as a very big software project and a
lot to give away just to sell $128.88 music boxes.
A more plausible scenario is that they'd jump on the bandwagon with
everyone else on the planet and open a digital music store. They might
even distinguish themselves for a short while if they offered lossless
Flac downloads of music that aren't available elsewhere.
--
JJZolx
Jim
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
EnochLight wrote: > LOL - cute. Be that as it may, I can think of a thousand times when I > wanted to "rewind" through a track I was playing for [insert reason]. > Whether it was to listen again to the nuance of a particular part of a > track or to show a friend a particular segment of a song without having > to replay the whole damned song all over again. But do you want "rewind"? or really "back up a little so I can listen to that lick again"? When I want to hack around on my guitar or dobro, I do that, but not through my SqueezeBoxen. I'm old school, I listen to albums, not songs. Of course, albums are dying like physical CDs are. > I can live with the technological hurdles that afford me the > Squeezebox, but it would be nice to have that old-fashioned ability to > "rewind/fast forward" through all file formats playing. Seems to me that what you really want is a 'jog' wheel. so you can pop forward or back a little or a lot, but not really a rewind to start of track, at least most of the time. Rewind to start of track ought to be fairly simple, its the "back up 20 seconds" that is the challenge. -- Pat Farrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.bioinformatx.com ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
elmstreet;207589 Wrote: > I had a little update this morning. > In fact the yet to be announced product would fill a gap between SB3 > and Transporter. It seems it would be around $1000. > If this is true, it could be the SB+ with XLR we are all waiting for. We are? That's news to me. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
pfarrell;211307 Wrote: > > Aside from the history, why would you want a rewind function? > The only button on my SqueezeBox remote that I use is "Play" LOL - cute. Be that as it may, I can think of a thousand times when I wanted to "rewind" through a track I was playing for [insert reason]. Whether it was to listen again to the nuance of a particular part of a track or to show a friend a particular segment of a song without having to replay the whole damned song all over again. I can live with the technological hurdles that afford me the Squeezebox, but it would be nice to have that old-fashioned ability to "rewind/fast forward" through all file formats playing. -- EnochLight EnochLight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3392 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
amey01;211286 Wrote: > > FF and REWIND that works as well (not better - just "as well") as a > circa 1982 CD player would be a start! Rewind? Please be kind, rewind? I'd love to see your mythical 1982 CD player. From the Sony site: "On August 31, 1982, an announcement was made in Tokyo that four companies, Sony, CBS/Sony, Philips, and Polygram had jointly developed the world's first CD system. These companies announced that they would commence domestic sales in the autumn. " I bought my first CD player in late 84 early 85. Before that, they cost a grand and there were no CDs for sale, only records. The first Tower Records opened in Washington DC at the same time, it was mind boggling to see their store, they had over a thousand CDs for sale. And it was only 5 blocks from The White House. Aside from the history, why would you want a rewind function? The only button on my SqueezeBox remote that I use is "Play" -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Nostromo;211293 Wrote: > Why? Because the Squeezebox is streaming the songs? Yeah. And the roundabout way that a basic command gets to the Squeezebox - from the IR sensor, through the Squeezebox, sent over the network to the SlimServer, then sent back over the network to the Squeezebox. The arrangement leaves a lot to be desired, but surprisingly, FFW and RWD are some of the few things it does really poorly. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
JJZolx;211289 Wrote: > Ain't gonna happen. The architecture just isn't cut out for it. Why? Because the Squeezebox is streaming the songs? -- Nostromo Nostromo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6322 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
amey01;211286 Wrote: > STOP STOP STOP!!! Please. > > Before we start adding even more features to the Squeezebox, let's just > get what we've got working - and working properly. > > FF and REWIND that works as well (not better - just "as well") as a > circa 1982 CD player would be a start! Ain't gonna happen. The architecture just isn't cut out for it. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
STOP STOP STOP!!! Please. Before we start adding even more features to the Squeezebox, let's just get what we've got working - and working properly. FF and REWIND that works as well (not better - just "as well") as a circa 1982 CD player would be a start! -- amey01 amey01's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11274 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
jt25741;209994 Wrote: > I really like your idea of incorporating an audio driver to redirect the > sound output to the SB. Currently there is as product that just does > this alone, the Linksys Wireless Music Bridge. I have one, and rarely > use it anymore.But to redirect higher quality Yahoo Music(aka > MusicMatch), which I subscribe, I need to still use this. If the SB > had a similar driver to redirect the soundcard output -- I could > consolidate this last piece. Yahoo Music is built around protected > WMA -- so it doesnt work natively with the SB/slimserver. Obviously > this would have many other potential uses, to get around protected > streams such as Dolby AAC with AOL music for instance. Have you checked the 'Wave Input plugin' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=205598)? You may need an upgraded sound card to use this. -- Mark Lanctot 'Sean Adams' Response-O-Matic checklist, patent pending!' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=200910&postcount=2) Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
arge;209244 Wrote: > HW: > 1) SB3 form factor is OK (a bigger display would be nice now that I am > closer to 40s) > > 2) Balanced, volume controlled, output > > 3) Of course fanless. > > Additional SW: > 1) An "audio driver" that lets me redirect the Windows (XP - Vista) > mixer output to the SB. > This will finally give the fexibility of (somtimes) use real speakers > with my PC sw (e.g. Windows Media Player 11) with the SB. > Yes, I like WMP 11 very much when I am seating in front of my PC. > Ideally this driver has low enough latency to allow for synch DVD > video/audio playback (I do not care about 5.1, 7.1 ,...) > > Cost: <$400. I really like your idea of incorporating an audio driver to redirect the sound output to the SB. Currently there is as product that just does this alone, the Linksys Wireless Music Bridge. I have one, and rarely use it anymore.But to redirect higher quality Yahoo Music(aka MusicMatch), which I subscribe, I need to still use this. If the SB had a similar driver to redirect the soundcard output -- I could consolidate this last piece. Yahoo Music is built around protected WMA -- so it doesnt work natively with the SB/slimserver. Obviously this would have many other potential uses, to get around protected streams such as Dolby AAC with AOL music for instance. -- jt25741 SB3->AR Masters Coax -> PS Audio DLIII -> Cardas Golden Reference XLR -> Sim Audio P5 -> Cardas Golden Reference XLR -> Sim Audio W5 -> Cardas Golden Reference Hi-Mid,PS Audio Xstream Plus Low-> Magnepan 3.6R jt25741's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Pale Blue Ego;207961 Wrote: > Pure Harmony? > > If it's anything like the 880, I'll pass. Overall, I like the Harmony 880 Programmable Remote. It is very easy to program and is very easy to use. My one gripe is the flat/small buttons. The display could also be be higher resolution. -- earthbased earthbased's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=334 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
HW: 1) SB3 form factor is OK (a bigger display would be nice now that I am closer to 40s) 2) Balanced, volume controlled, output 3) Of course fanless. Additional SW: 1) An "audio driver" that lets me redirect the Windows (XP - Vista) mixer output to the SB. This will finally give the fexibility of (somtimes) use real speakers with my PC sw (e.g. Windows Media Player 11) with the SB. Yes, I like WMP 11 very much when I am seating in front of my PC. Ideally this driver has low enough latency to allow for synch DVD video/audio playback (I do not care about 5.1, 7.1 ,...) Cost: <$400. -- arge arge's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6155 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
soupdragon;208815 Wrote: > > the sb3 size/shape/style is fine - just make it 24/96 compat with state > of art DAC and clean psu, ie performance of transporter in the sb3 size > ! > > shouldnt be too uch of a tall order what with miniturization etc ! > I don't know about state-of-the-art DAC (the really esoteric stuff -- even in chip form -- is pretty expensive, but it should be possible to use a better DAC and PS (and other performance/energy optimized internals) at less to equal cost than when the SB3 first came out. A good bit of the price of the SB3 reflected the costs of retooling and reengineering due to the new form factor, and I think SD/Logitech has a winner and won't need a major redesign (unless they want to go to Frog Designs for bling factor). I would guess the next SB will support 802.11n wireless, meaning it will appear after the standard is out of draft. I can also see SD/Logitech coming out with an add-on hardware device (USB? PCI?) for the server -- with the necessary bits in the SB -- that will provide the two-way communication necessary for true, sustained synchronization between the server and its satellites. And a universal remote optimized for a Slim music distribution system. Both of these are direct hits on Sonos. I can also see them coming out with something to allow the option for navigation via a TV screen (which some people in their target market apparently like to do). Maybe this could be colocated on the same hardware device as the synchronization capability. Finally, it's not unthinkable that SD/Logitech could release a reference specification for a Slimserver that third-party quasi-VARs could use to put together a supportable, one stop solution that would give consumers a soup-to-nuts product that they'd only need to plug in (another hit on Sonos). I bring up all these other things because I think the timing of the next SB's release will be affected by the availability of these related items (remote, SS enhancements, 802.11n). -- Balthazar_B Balthazar_B's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7366 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
cant swallow the transporter jnr idea. the sb3 size/shape/style is fine - just make it 24/96 compat with state of art DAC and clean psu, ie performance of transporter in the sb3 size ! shouldnt be too uch of a tall order what with miniturization etc ! Liam -- soupdragon SB3 + Cyrus CD6 + JVC QL A75 DD TT -> Cyrus PreX -> Eclipse TD 502 -> Eclipse 512 speakers soupdragon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4958 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
What I'd really like is a "Transporter Jr." It would use the same case as the Transporter but leave out the super DAC and have the same I/O options as the SB3. It would need some sort of upgrade over the SB3 in order to support 24/96 files, else it wouldn't be worthy of the name Transporter, even with the "Jr." I think I'd pay around $499 - $599 for such a device. -- dem Dave dem's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2504 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Nah! CD's days are over. Ipods have taken over the subways and parks, now something has got to do the same at home. They're trying to step in there... -- topa topa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7118 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
no one on earth trusts the giant corporate monolith less then me, but it occurs to me that logitech might not have bought slim to turn them into the mcdonalds of music servers - they might have seen a niche product that could stay a niche product while turning a small (for them) profit and furthering their brand appeal. -- ratso ratso's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11493 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
funkstar;208217 Wrote: > Hey they could well exist, i just haven't seen any :) There are manyhere is an example: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882693008 -- jt25741 SB3->AR Masters Coax -> PS Audio DLIII -> Cardas Golden Reference XLR -> Sim Audio P5 -> Cardas Golden Reference XLR -> Sim Audio W5 -> Cardas Golden Reference Hi-Mid,PS Audio Xstream Plus Low-> Magnepan 3.6R jt25741's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8645 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Hey they could well exist, i just haven't seen any :) -- funkstar funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
funkstar;207981 Wrote: > There are loads of digital photo frames out there that play MP3s and > videos, but I've yet to see any network-able ones. So you still need to > copy your photos a memory card before using them. > > An SD version would let you have your photos on your SlimServer along > with your music. That would be pretty cool if you ask me :) Funny that you should mention that - I would swear I saw an ad for a wi-fi digital photo frame the other day in passing and thought to myself - "Hmm, just needs to be integrated with Slimserver." -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
No matter what new products are released, not everyone is going to be happy :) A photo frame device would be great in my bedroom, where i have no TV. I wouldn't want video output electronics in a regular SB. Extening my idea further, if a photo device had a ouch screen, it would be great if it had a touch screen as well. Embedding it in a wall would be fantastic :) -- funkstar funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
It might be interesting to have a SB4 that had the same nice VFD display, but included a video output to connect to a monitor. This would allow display of photo images and also cover art and maybe tag information. -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
Actually, if you use iTunes, the Slimserver is pretty easy to use. Just tell it to use iTunes playlists. I'm not saying that this is the best way to manage your music, just that a LOT of people are comfortable with iTunes. I think the bigger problem is that you need at least a decent music system to to take advantage of a SB. I am shocked to see what some people connect their iPods to and call it music. -- Bob Bressler Bob Audio Note CDT-Two->Audio Note DAC5 + Slim Transporter->Spectral DMC-20->Kassai amp->Audio Note AN Es Bob Bressler's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2217 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
peterw;208002 Wrote: > It's worth noting that many people over the years have advanced the > position that VFD displays such as those used in the Squeezebox and > Transporter are much more readable than LCD displays in typical > across-the-room scenarios. My Squeezeboxes serve as audio and > information devices, and I'd rather have the current clear VFD than a > less readable LCD, even if the LCD could do more. I would advocate the use of a VFD as opposed to a monochrome LCD panels that a lot of poeple use in modified PCs these days. However, a 7" full colour TFT screen that we might have full control over is a completely different proposition :) -- funkstar funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
ModelCitizen;207973 Wrote: > If I was you I'd stick with the SB3 and exchange the wife. > MC I won't stoop as low and reply in kind. -- mswlogo Thinkpad XP SS > Cat5 > SB3 > RCA > Meridian 861V4 (Trifield, Room corrected, Upsampled) > DSP5500 Mains, DSP5500HC Center, DSP33 Rears mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
A dockable color touchscreen display/remote is a great idea that could still be operated by IR when docked and send IR when undocked. -- mswlogo Thinkpad XP SS > Cat5 > SB3 > RCA > Meridian 861V4 (Trifield, Room corrected, Upsampled) > DSP5500 Mains, DSP5500HC Center, DSP33 Rears mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
A dockable color touchscreen display/remote is a great idea that could still be operated by IR when docked and send IR when undocked. -- mswlogo mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
funkstar;207981 Wrote: > > In fact while they are at it, why not include the ability to stream > photos and perhaps videos to the screen? There are loads of digital > photo frames out there that play MP3s and videos, but I've yet to see > any network-able ones. So you still need to copy your photos a memory > card before using them. > I've seen some that will periodically poll the Internet for new pictures, which would be fine for screenshow use, but not adequate for having something like cover art that changes when music changes, or when you scroll through Browse items or Search results. At this point, that sort of tightly-coupled album art changes seems to require building a custom digital pitcure frame from either an old laptop (pretty common among hardware hackers) or building a solid state frame from something like a Gumstix device and LCD screen. It's worth noting that many people over the years have advanced the position that VFD displays such as those used in the Squeezebox and Transporter are much more readable than LCD displays in typical across-the-room scenarios. My Squeezeboxes serve as audio and information devices, and I'd rather have the current clear VFD than a less readable LCD, even if the LCD could do more. -Peter -- peterw http://www.tux.org/~peterw/ free plugins: http://www.tux.org/~peterw/#slim BlankSaver BottleRocket FuzzyTime SaverSwitcher SleepFade StatusFirst VolumeLock peterw's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2107 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Sb4 ?
erland;207976 Wrote: > > Of course if the display on the remote was large enough so the contents > on it could be seen from a few meters away I would still be happy. I > could then keep the remote in the docking station at the SB, I would > keep controlling the SB with the Harmony 688 with its hard buttons > which can be easily found in a dark room. That was what I had in mind - the display would be a bit larger than the current one, but color and much higher resolution, so while in its dock you could easily see it from a distance. It could display album art, which would be great... -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35881 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
