Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
Videodrome;247681 Wrote: > That receiver has been quite the buzz in the home theater forums. The > fact is supports the new codecs (especially DTS HD MA) makes it very > tempting. Provided the Onkyo's preamp section is decent for 2-channel, > and if it has pre outs, you could add a finesse two channel amp for your > mains and have a pretty sweet dual purpose system. Hi Videodrome, Did the Behringer SRC2496 make a difference with your SB3 ? I have Bolder digital mods and a modded linear PSU. I have already ordered the Behringer mainly for use with my computer/quite listening (headphones). But wondering whether it would still make a difference with my SB3. I can also try feeding upsampled output to my Panny, which can accept upto 24bit/96Khz I think. -- SoftwireEngineer SoftwireEngineer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7000 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
That receiver has been quite the buzz in the home theater forums. The fact is supports the new codecs (especially DTS HD MA) makes it very tempting. Provided the Onkyo's preamp section is decent for 2-channel, and if it has pre outs, you could add a finesse two channel amp for your mains and have a pretty sweet dual purpose system. -- Videodrome Two-channel System: SB3 -> Behringer SRC2496 -> Musiland MD-10 DAC; Outlaw 970 Pre/Pro; McCormack DNA-125 amplifier; Quad 11L speakers; Sota Sapphire ttbl. w/ Grado Ref. Platinum Cartridge -> Rolls Bellari VP-129 tube phono stage; Marantz 10b; Nakamichi RX505; Cables Used: DH Labs, Van den Hul, Distech, Monster, many more. Videodrome's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11727 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
Recently I've been thinking that something like an Onkyo 805 ( http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?m=TX-SR805&p=i&class=Receiver ) with it's Burr Brown dacs would be as good as getting an external dac. For a bit over $700 currently on amazon.com it's quite a steal. And it would give me the option of using HD audio in the future if they ever start selling that. It has hdmi v1.3 and all the fancy stuff. Plus all the bass management of the receiver will be usable too. I can't use that on my current receiver when I use the external (analog) input. -- jmourik jmourik's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7123 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
With respect to all the posters everyone's point of view is correct in it's own way. I would suggest that the overall syngery between the components is more important than the one link in the chain. $$$ cost doesn't necessarily predicate the level of performance and you should listen with your ears not your prejudice: just because something costs more doesn't necessaily mean it will sound good in your system. Nothing wrong at all with the SB3 > Melody SP7 > Onix Ref-1 combo. In fact very nice. With the Melody's 45 watts per channel you should be getting decent soundstaging and imaging from the Ref 1's. Mind you compared to OB speakers any small bookshelf will struggle for soundstaging. The SB3 is "veiled" in stock form and the Ignuz plug-in makes a huge difference to be sure. I had a SB3, tried all sorts of Dac's with it and concluded that while it you could difintely improve it's sound by an external DAC, it began to look expensive when the costs of the mods (digital), cables, DAC and discrete linear psu were factored in. Plus the buying and selling and time involved. I think you are on the right track addressing room acoustics as a relatively inexpensive way to upgrade your system. May I suggest that get a quality SMPS, untreat your reflective walls to brighten up your room abit, pay attention to where your standmounts are, save your money and upgrade to a Transporter (about $1500 on Audiogon) which saves all the mucking around searching for improvement. If I didn't have need of a one box solution for video/audio then I certainly would have a Transporter in preference to the modded SB3/External Dac/PSU path that everyone seems to go for. Lastly Pro Audio or at least "Prosumer" audio does work remarkably well for a fraction of the price of "hi fi". I figure if it's good enough to master from it certainly should be good enough to play back with. At least so it has been for me. Best wishes Tricka -- tricka Lynx 2 Custom Shiuy SEP 2.5 watt B200 OB/ Custom Sub (450 watt plate) MAC cables tricka's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11614 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
smarco wrote: > I don't think I have audiophile ears, but I'm able to distinguish $2-3k > amps or speakers from $500-$1k ones. So when audiophiles say there is a > "huge" difference, I assume "ok, there may be a slightly audible > difference. :) Give that man a cigar. > Zhaolu seems to provide slightly clearer details and better imaging. > But, what makes a strickly fair comparison difficult is the difference > in their analog output levels. Louder signals means louder music, which always, *always* sounds better to humans. To test, you first have to equalize sound levels. Get at least a radio shack sound meter. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
I don't think I have audiophile ears, but I'm able to distinguish $2-3k amps or speakers from $500-$1k ones. So when audiophiles say there is a "huge" difference, I assume "ok, there may be a slightly audible difference. :) I recently got a Zhaolu D3, and tried A-B comparison with the internal DAC of my SB3. (SB3-glass toslink-Zhaolu D3-MAC ultra silver RCA interlink vs. SB3-blue jeans RCA interlink / both to my integrated tube amp and Triangle Comete speakers) Zhaolu seems to provide slightly clearer details and better imaging. But, what makes a strickly fair comparison difficult is the difference in their analog output levels. The output vrms of Zhaolu D3 seems higher than SB3 (2.1 vrms). The analog output level of Musiland MD-10 is 3 vrms and certainly higher than SB3. It may bring some illusion. I think Zhaolu D3 or Musiland MD-10 may be a better idea than a $250 cable to improve the sound quality of SB3, but the actual improvement seems to be subtle. BTW, does anybody know what's the analog output level of Zhaolu D3? -- smarco smarco's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12178 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
You could also just download inguz's plugin and use that to turn up the treble. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
In the old days, when amps had tone controls, people used to just turn up the treble a little to get more "life" in the music. Now they spend several hundred dollars on DACs and interconnect cables (like dumb and dumber) in feeble attempts to get the same effect. Get yourself a 70s-80s vintage amp that has tone controls from your local garage sale. It shouldn't cost more than $10-20, depending on its condition. Lift the treble slightly (turn the treble knob just a little clockwise). Enjoy your music once again. TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
A different dac will give a different sound not necessarily better...but lets hope that a more expensive dac has a better performance. A better dac psu will give you more of what the dac does with out too much change in charactor ..for me better cables are the icing on the cake again these should allow more of the dac sound through rather than change its charactor. If a cables changing the sound then its not doing its job in my opinion ! -- zanash Acoustician and builder of interesting cables zanash's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12157 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
SoftwireEngineer;243255 Wrote: > The stock SB3 has some jitter which really shows up in the listening. Huh? Most tests show the jitter as fairly low. Do you have scope images? > One should also try a better supply or power conditioner or better > interconnects before adding more components to the chain. Well if you're saying that a better power supply, power conditioning or interconnects would improve things more than a different DAC maybe we don't need to see scope images at all. :-P -- Mark Lanctot Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
The stock SB3 has some jitter which really shows up in the listening. I would describe the sound as 'soft' and 'blurred' (although like everything in audiophila is relative). Atleast, when compared to my Philips 963sa. I sent it in for digital mods to Boldercables.com and this improved to a great extent. So unless, you have jitter reduction built into the DAC, you are not getting the maximum performance. Maybe this softness is what makes people desire a 'brighter' sound. One should also try a better supply or power conditioner or better interconnects before adding more components to the chain. -- SoftwireEngineer SoftwireEngineer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7000 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
In my case I use a Zhaolu D3 with great results. The opAmp in mine were not Lt-1057 but Lt-1028. The 1028 are single type opAmp. I replaced them with BurrBrown opa627 with greater results ! And I am waiting to receive Burson 'discrete components' module that will replace the opa627 ... -- Acme Acme's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13875 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
You want to "brighten" your sound and move the soundstage "in front" of your speakersthis goes against every "audiophile" stands for IMO. If you want to simply brighen your sound try a set of Nordost Blue Heaven interconnects...right around $120 a pair...these will brighten your sound. If you want bright sound in general, change to a pair of b&w speakers...these are bright...as for DAC's, I have never found one that was "Bright" but I have owned nearly a dozen at this point, and none of them was less than $600, so maybe there are some but I have never owned one. Ben -- bearotti bearotti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13919 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
westernboy;240238 Wrote: > Hi cgull (clever name, btw). In response to your original post, I can > recommend the Beresford TC-7510 external DAC, providing it has the > 'Class A' output mod. At around 140 UK pound sterling, it was better > than the modded Channel Islands VDA-1 I tried previously and (from > memory) about as revealing as a Benchmark 1. I can't comment on the > Inguz plugin as I don't have a server with enough horsepower to run it, > but I can say that room treatments (at least the DIY absorption panels > I've installed so far) make a HUGE improvement to the sound quality. I agree that the Beresford TC-7510 Mk6/3 is a very competitive unit with very adequate sound even out of its headphone amp. I am sending it's signel into my Berning micro-ZOTL for my headphones. I am using the SB3 with FLAC files and optical output to the 7510. -- slwiser slwiser's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13961 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
the three benchmark dac1 I've heard have been rather poor compared with the behringer deq 2496 [used as dac only] the src 2496. I agree the dac1 sounded thin and bright to the point of unlistenable in the system it was being used in ...this does illistrate that it was showing up the dvd player that was being used as a transport ...when we slotted in my quad 99cdp the dac1 did respond with a more listenable performance but was not a patch on the 99cdp as player and dac. I've said before my friend sold the dac1 and bought an src ...saving £600 and got better sounding music to boot. there are any number of small cheap dac available ..though there is a reliability question about some ie the lite dac ah of which I've had two both died after about 6 months use [but they were only £30 each ] so I've not lost a great deal. -- zanash Acoustician and builder of interesting cables zanash's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12157 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
I've just got my SB3 and am having good results feeding into a Sonifex Redbox DAC1 (£435) Sonifex make broadcast equipment and one enterprising audio dealer got the company to make a more domestically acceptable version by lopping off the rack mount. Here's a link to Sonifex: http://www.audioatmosphere.com/AUDIO_SS/displayproduct.asp?UID=26032box/rbdac1_ld.shtml and to the page from the dealer's site (split from it's frameset): http://www.audioatmosphere.com/AUDIO_SS/displayproduct.asp?UID=26032 The dealer makes comparison with units costing to £3,500; I can't really vouch for this, but Stuart - the guy I dealt with - said the RB DAC1 gave the Benchmark DAC1 a good run for its money, and at half the price I gave it a go on an approvals basis. I kept it!! I read somewhere that if the SB3 had been made by an audio manufacturer they'd have tripled the price for it. I'm sure the reverse applies and the pro-audio broadcast market is pretty demanding and wouldn't like being ripped off by inflated prices. Anyway - this may help . . . My first post to the forum BTW. Lot's of good stuff here :o) -- morris_minor morris_minor's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13950 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
I currently own a Beresford DAC and I am running it with SB3/Creek Destiny and Monitor Audio GS20s... It sounds terrific, but I can`t help thinking that there may be more to extract on the source-side og the amp. Which DAC would you recommend? -- cybervision_ cybervision_'s Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13023 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
This guy makes great DACs on the "cheap." I have two of his older models. http://myworld.ebay.com/mhdtlab/ -- dwc dwc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1892 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
russelk;240026 Wrote: > I disagree with the statement that the speaekers will contribute about > 95% of the system character. During my last upgrade I kept my speakers > (Quad 12L) but replaced the source and amplification (Linn > Creek) - > the change in sound was staggering. Speaking for myself at least, the > speakers did not contribute anywhere near 95% of the sonic character of > my system. > > I have stated in a previous post that I don't think much of the SB3's > analog output - I don't know if it's the DAC that's the limiting > factor, or the supporting components. The bottom line is that it's > bettered quite easily by a mid-range cd player. Of course one must take > into account that the SB3 does cost a great deal less than a mid-range > cd player, so it's unfair to expect that kind of performance. > > cgull, I would definitely recommend that you try an external DAC. I > know exactly what you mean when you say the SB3 sounds dull and flat. > Unfortunately I am not familiar with the DACs that you have listed. I'm > using a cheap moodlabs Concept DAC at the moment, and I'm not really > satisfied with the performance gains. Yes it does sound better than the > SB3's analog out, but not by a great margin. I'm going to be auditioning > a Benchmark DAC1 in a few months - it is quite expensive but I'm hoping > the gains will be worthwhile. If your 12Ls are anything like my 11Ls, they are very revealing of anything upstream of them. So like you, I was able to immediately discern the improvement an upgraded DAC made to my Squeezebox. On that point: cgull, if you're looking at the Zhalous, take a gander at the Musiland DACs like the MD10. I bought mine from Pacfic Valve and Electric. I'm using the aforementioned Behringer SRC 2496 to upsample the stream to the MD-10 and running it at 88zHz / 24 bit. All told, the whole combo' set me back about $430 and I've been a very happy camper. Just got back from visting my brother who has a purebred Linn Ikemi and I much prefer my humble German / Chinese mutt. To russellk's point, the Benchmark has been consistently described as "bright" in the many reviews and shootouts I have read. A less pejorative term would be "analytical." Not my cup o' tea, but if that's what you're after, there are usually several for sale at any given time on Audiogon (used) for $700 -$800. -- Videodrome Two-channel System: SB3 -> Behringer SRC2496 -> Musiland MD-10 DAC; Outlaw 970 Pre/Pro; McCormack DNA-125 amplifier; Quad 11L speakers; Sota Sapphire ttbl. w/ Grado Ref. Platinum Cartridge -> Rolls Bellari VP-129 tube phono stage; Marantz 10b; Nakamichi RX505; Cables Used: DH Labs, Van den Hul, Distech, Monster, many more. Videodrome's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11727 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
westernboy;240238 Wrote: > Hi cgull (clever name, btw). In response to your original post, I can > recommend the Beresford TC-7510 external DAC, providing it has the > 'Class A' output mod. At around 140 UK pound sterling, it was better > than the modded Channel Islands VDA-1 I tried previously and (from > memory) about as revealing as a Benchmark 1. I can't comment on the > Inguz plugin as I don't have a server with enough horsepower to run it, > but I can say that room treatments (at least the DIY absorption panels > I've installed so far) make a HUGE improvement to the sound quality. yes the beresford is a good dac on a budget but when I had one compared to the modded behringer src2496 it came of second best by quite a wide margin thats before you add in all the extras that the src gives you. -- zanash Acoustician and builder of interesting cables zanash's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12157 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
I don't own an sb3 as yet but use the software version for time being across pc network I use 'dac-in the box' between my dvd player(recorder) and amp. I first read about the dac on the headfi forums and decided to buy one due to the budget price & positive comments on the forums. There's a newer version called super pro dac 707, see website www.diykits.com.hk. Also use a Canare lv61s stereo analogue cable in the same setup without dac and enjoy as much as when using the dac. My setup: dvd as source, chord carnival silver spkr wire,cambridge audio 540a amp, mission m30i speakers. Also worth taking some note of room acoustics and speaker postioning etc thanks, -- steve34 steve34's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13885 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
I have the Zhaolu D3.0. For me it's an enormous improvement over the SB3 internal DAC. Shane -- swhite58 Clark Connect Linux file server->SB3->Zhaolu D3 DAC->NAD C320BEE->Polk Monitor 4.5 speakers/Sennheiser headphones swhite58's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5038 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
cgull;240224 Wrote: > Bitrate is great. I have a bunch of 24/48000 flacs to test with. > > I just installed the Inguz EQ plugin and it vastly improved sound. > Gonna look into the room correction stuff now. This may temporarily > cure my upgradeitis. Still on the fence for a dac. Hi cgull (clever name, btw). In response to your original post, I can recommend the Beresford TC-7510 external DAC, providing it has the 'Class A' output mod. At around 140 UK pound sterling, it was better than the modded Channel Islands VAC-1 I tried previously and (from memory) about as revealing as a Benchmark 1. I can't comment on the Inguz plugin as I don't have a server with enough horsepower to run it, but I can say that room treatments (at least the DIY absorption panels I've installed so far) make a HUGE improvement to the sound quality. -- westernboy "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." Albert Einstein westernboy's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12768 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
cliveb;240105 Wrote: > OK, fair enough. You've done a comparison and decided you prefer the > sound of the Toshiba DVD player to the SB3. But before spending any > money, be sure to check that you're not accidentally bitrate limiting > the feed to the SB3, and also make sure your comparison of DVD player > to SB3 is level matched. Bitrate is great. I have a bunch of 24/48000 flacs to test with. I just installed the Inguz EQ plugin and it vastly improved sound. Gonna look into the room correction stuff now. This may temporarily cure my upgradeitis. Still on the fence for a dac. -- cgull cgull SB3 > Melody SP7 > Onix Ref-1 cgull's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13453 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
I've tried a couple high-quality DAC's and was shocked at the level of improvement over the SB3's analog outputs. This might be over your budget but I've been very pleased with the $599 CIAudio VDA-2: http://www.ciaudio.com/vda2.html -- USAudio SB3 > CIAudio VDA-2/VAC-1 > CIAudio PLC-1 > CIAudio D-200 > Revel Concerta F12 + SVS SB12-Plus USAudio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8580 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
cgull;240075 Wrote: > Last night I did a test of a Toshiba SD4700/standard cd vs SB3/flac. The > Toshiba sounded significantly better, no question about it. So I know > that my amp/speaks are capable of producing a sound that is good to my > ears. This is whats leading me down the DAC path. OK, fair enough. You've done a comparison and decided you prefer the sound of the Toshiba DVD player to the SB3. But before spending any money, be sure to check that you're not accidentally bitrate limiting the feed to the SB3, and also make sure your comparison of DVD player to SB3 is level matched. -- cliveb Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
cliveb;240019 Wrote: > Belief can send you down all sorts of blind alleys. What actual evidence > do you have that the SB3's DAC is the limiting factor? The DAC in the > SB3 is actually pretty damn good. > > An obvious point to make is that your speakers will be contributing > about 95% of the overall system character. Apart from that, unless your > system is really high-end, chances are that the preamp is the electronic > component most responsible for any shortcomings. > > Can you tell us what rest of your system is? That way we'd have a > better chance of making more informed comments. I have a Melody SP-7 Tube Amp (http://www.melodyhifi.com/SP7.html) driving a pair of Onix Reference 1 Monitor's. (http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=23.1). Last night I did a test of a Toshiba SD4700/standard cd vs SB3/flac. The Toshiba sounded significantly better, no question about it. So I know that my amp/speaks are capable of producing a sound that is good to my ears. This is whats leading me down the DAC path. -- cgull cgull SB3 > Melody SP7 > Onix Ref-1 cgull's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13453 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
cliveb;240019 Wrote: > Belief can send you down all sorts of blind alleys. What actual evidence > do you have that the SB3's DAC is the limiting factor? The DAC in the > SB3 is actually pretty damn good. > > An obvious point to make is that your speakers will be contributing > about 95% of the overall system character. Apart from that, unless your > system is really high-end, chances are that the preamp is the electronic > component most responsible for any shortcomings. I disagree with the statement that the speaekers will contribute about 95% of the system character. During my last upgrade I kept my speakers (Quad 12L) but replaced the source and amplification (Linn > Creek) - the change in sound was staggering. Speaking for myself at least, the speakers did not contribute anywhere near 95% of the sonic character of my system. I have stated in a previous post that I don't think much of the SB3's analog output - I don't know if it's the DAC that's the limiting factor, or the supporting components. The bottom line is that it's bettered quite easily by a mid-range cd player. Of course one must take into account that the SB3 does cost a great deal less than a mid-range cd player, so it's unfair to expect that kind of performance. cgull, I would definitely recommend that you try an external DAC. I know exactly what you mean when you say the SB3 sounds dull and flat. Unfortunately I am not familiar with the DACs that you have listed. I'm using a cheap moodlabs Concept DAC at the moment, and I'm not really satisfied with the performance gains. Yes it does sound better than the SB3's analog out, but not by a great margin. I'm going to be auditioning a Benchmark DAC1 in a few months - it is quite expensive but I'm hoping the gains will be worthwhile. -- russelk SB3 --> Moodlab Concept DAC --> Creek Evo amp --> Quad 12L speakers russelk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12795 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
cgull;239877 Wrote: > I am looking to add an external DAC as I believe the internal DAC is the > weakest link in my audio chain. Belief can send you down all sorts of blind alleys. What actual evidence do you have that the SB3's DAC is the limiting factor? The DAC in the SB3 is actually pretty damn good. An obvious point to make is that your speakers will be contributing about 95% of the overall system character. Apart from that, unless your system is really high-end, chances are that the preamp is the electronic component most responsible for any shortcomings. Can you tell us what rest of your system is? That way we'd have a better chance of making more informed comments. -- cliveb Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
try the behringer src 2496.its cheap £80ish has loads of facilities and at the price very difficult to get a better sounding dacit can be modded with a small amount of effort to live with dacs in the £600 bracket. -- zanash Acoustician and builder of interesting cables zanash's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12157 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
>I think what I mean by brightness is that the SB3 sounds a bit muted (even flat) to me< Have you considered the Ignuz plug-in? -- amcluesent amcluesent's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10286 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
JJZolx;239906 Wrote: > If you want to increase the brightness then get something really > inexpensive, no tubes in the output stage, and preferably 10 or more > years old. That was a prominent quality of early DACs and a quality > that *all* modern DACs strive to avoid. Most people generally don't > like brightness in a source component, as it leads to listening fatigue > (when it can be tolerated at all). > > I'd also consider looking elsewhere in improving your system. It > sounds like you know that it's missing something, but maybe you can't > put your finger on it. Maybe you want more detail (not the same as > brightness) or less warmth in the midrange or more punchiness in the > bass. If you really want to tip up the top end, the surest way is > through different speakers. Thanks for the feedback. I think what I mean by brightness is that the SB3 sounds a bit muted (even flat) to me. I am not looking to introduce any artificial attributes to the sound. Perhaps it is more detail and slightly less warmth then. I absolutely love the speaks and amp so am not gong to make a change there. -- cgull cgull SB3 > Melody SP7 > Onix Ref-1 cgull's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13453 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
If you want to increase the brightness then get something really inexpensive, no tubes in the output stage, and preferably 10 or more years old. That was a prominent quality of early DACs and a quality that *all* modern DACs strive to avoid. Most people generally don't like brightness in a source component, as it leads to listening fatigue (when it can be tolerated at all). I'd also consider looking elsewhere in improving your system. It sounds like you know that it's missing something, but maybe you can't put your finger on it. Maybe you want more detail (not the same as brightness) or less warmth in the midrange or more punchiness in the bass. If you really want to tip up the top end, the surest way is through different speakers. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=39892 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Which "budget constrained" DAC for SB3?
I am looking to add an external DAC as I believe the internal DAC is the weakest link in my audio chain. I am hoping to increase the brightness and move the sound stage out. I am not going to spend allot of $$ bc I would rather re-invest more frequently as chip technology advances and costs less. So here are the ones I am currently considering. Which is the best choice considering cost and sound quality relative to internal SB3 DAC? DAC707 SuperPro (~$100 shipped) Code: The DAC707 Super Pro might be small, but it plays very well with the big boys. This scrappy little four-ounce DAC puts out a big, dynamic and detailed sound. Immediately tagged as a giant-killer when first introduced on the Asian market not too long ago, it compares to DACs selling for many times the price. The Super Pro supports up to 24bit/96KHz and uses the CS8416 for the receiver ship and the highly resolving,24-192kHz, CS-4398 for the D/A chip. Dual LT1364Cs are used for analog output. The unit has optical TOSLINK and RCA coaxial digital outputs. Analog output is via standard RCA plugs. The DAC Super Pro comes with external power supply, but for and ultra-quiet background and even more revealing detail, we suggest a battery power supply. * D/A Receiver chip CS-8416, * D/A converter chip, CS-4398 (24-192KHZ ) * Dual LT1364C OPAMPS for analog output circuit * Optical digital input * Coaxial Digital Input * Standard RCA analog output plugs It comes with everything you'll need to get up and running, including: * Universal Power Supply * Optical Cable * Digital coaxial cable Zhaolu D2.5C (~$210 shipped) Code: Zhaolu (pronounced "chow-loo") DACs have developed a dedicated following around the world for audiophile performance at a very reasonable price. In keeping with this reputation, the Zhaolu DAC 2.5 delivers new levels of engineering refinement and sonic improvement. On the heels of the highly successful D2 model, the 2.5 boasts a number of major design upgrades, including independent operational modules for power, digital processing and analog processing, and a headphone amp section. For lower distortion and noise, each module is a separate circuit board connected with quality cables, plugs and sockets. At Audiomagus, we always say, "stay grounded in the sound!" Listening to the D2.5 is a pleasure: it delivers excellent imaging with a spacious and open soundstage. The CS4398 brings a natural tonality and great detail. If you are a headphone lover, the D2.5 also features an excellent headphone amp module. (For ultimate performance and fidelity, a Discrete Headphone Amplifier Module is available as an upgrade for $50) . The D2.5C includes an optical cable Features: DAC Chip: Cirrus Logic CS4398 24-bit/192 kHz with advanced multi-bit Delta-Sigma architecture OP Amps (for DAC output sections): Linear Technology LT1057 precision high-speed dual Op Amp OP Amps (for Headphone Amp): Burr Brown OPA2604 * Optical (Digital) Input * Coaxial (Digital) Input * Non-Balanced (RCA) Analog Output * Toslink Digital Input * Digital input switching * RCA analog output * RCA analog output from headphone amplifier (volume controlled) * RCA analog input to headphone amplifier * Volume control (headphone) * Mute on zero signal input * 6.3mm Headphone Signal Output * Independent headphone amplifier (supports different headphone impedance) * Power-on delay and Power-off protection * Easy to upgrade and very mod-friendly (change op amps to suit your taste) * Audiophile-grade parts and components * Separate power supply to analog and digital circuits * High quality double-sided printed circuit board (PCB) Specifications: S/N Ratio:120dB THD: 102dB Dynamic Range:117dB Frequence Response: 20Hz-22kHz (±0.5dB) Power 110v/60Hz ±110% (can be converted to 220) Dimensions9.4" x 11.8" x 2.16" (239mm x 300mm 55mm) Weight5.5 lbs (2.5 kg) Zhaolu DAC D3.0 (~$270 shipped) Code: Audiomagus offers a specially upgraded version of the D3, including: * ELNA BP capacitors installed in the power supply and analog section * Linear Technologies LT-1057 replaces the BurrBrown OPA604 Op-Amps The case deisgn is the same as the D2.5. On the front panel you'll find digital input selections, power switch and setting options. Users can specify startup priority for digital audio input and D3 decoders will automatically choose the preset input. The rear panel now features high quality chassis mounted RCA sockets for input, and four digital inputs. * 2 RCA Coaxial Inputs * 1 Optical TOSLink * 1 TG-Link high-speed buffer input With the D3, Zhaolu has stayed with independent modules for each section of the DAC. N
