Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
darrenyeats;686722 Wrote: > Aha! I've not had much luck finding my music on hi rez with HD Tracks - > I tend to pick music then worry about recordings and masters later. > Much of the music I like isn't recorded brilliantly but what can you > do. > > In terms of SACD hybrids I think Mofi have come through for me on the > CD layer. I'm not aware of an easy way to rip the SACD layer. > > I might be interested in Queen and Dire Straits...what albums do you > have and do they sound any good?! > > Regards, Darren Hi, I have on ebay at the moment (DrEvilWeasel):- Queen - The Game [DVD Audio] (CD 2003) £15 staring price Dire Straits - Brothers In Arms 20th Anniversary Edition £7 Starting Price PLus some others mentioned. I have Machine Head but cannot part with that. Queen very good sound Q as most Queen stuff is. Dire straits good. Cheers Ambrose -- Ambrose Ambrose's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=53026 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
Ambrose;686637 Wrote: > Ah ha! I see you are a fellow colchester resident Darren! I have a few > SACDs / DVD Audios on Ebay currently if interested? > Genesis, Doobie Brothers, Queen, Dire Straits, Porcupine Tree & Joe > Satriani. > Can you recommend any Good Rock High Res downloads from HD Tracks for > example as you seem to know a bit about these? > Cheers > Ambrose Aha! I've not had much luck finding my music on hi rez with HD Tracks - I tend to pick music then worry about recordings and masters later. Much of the music I like isn't recorded brilliantly but what can you do. In terms of SACD hybrids I think Mofi have come through for me on the CD layer. I'm not aware of an easy way to rip the SACD layer. I might be interested in Queen and Dire Straits...what albums do you have and do they sound any good?! Regards, Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
darrenyeats;684661 Wrote: > Back to the topic, had a look in Audacity. Indeed, SACD Hybrid's CD > layer (bottom) has had dynamic compression applied compared to early CD > release (top). > > It's not the worst I've experienced, and perhaps some aspects of the > master might be good - but look at all those peaks at 0db...no excuse > for this in a so called "audiophile" SACD Hybrid release. > > Am willing to believe the SACD layer might be different. > Darren > > PS: Track is "I Shot the Sheriff" which is one of the more upbeat > tracks from the album. > > PPS: Please consider this stuff in context of original question: > "upgrade priority!" Ah ha! I see you are a fellow colchester resident Darren! I have a few SACDs / DVD Audios on Ebay currently if interested? Genesis, Doobie Brothers, Queen, Dire Straits, Porcupine Tree & Joe Satriani. Can you recommend any Good Rock High Res downloads from HD Tracks for example as you seem to know a bit about these? Cheers Ambrose -- Ambrose Ambrose's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=53026 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
adamdea;684840 Wrote: > How about- "only slightly more expensive but arguably a bit different > and playable on at least some equipment." > . Are you making fun of my DVDA player ;) -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
Mnyb;684819 Wrote: > > > "Subtly better on select recordings on the very best equipment for some > people" is no selling tag line. How about- only slightly more expensive but arguably a bit different and playable on at least some equipment. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
darrenyeats;684661 Wrote: > Back to the topic, had a look in Audacity. Indeed, SACD Hybrid's CD > layer (bottom) has had dynamic compression applied compared to early CD > release (top). > > It's not the worst I've experienced, and perhaps some aspects of the > master might be good - but look at all those peaks at 0db...no excuse > for this in a so called "audiophile" SACD Hybrid release. > > Am willing to believe the SACD layer might be different. > Darren > > PS: Track is "I Shot the Sheriff" which is one of the more upbeat > tracks from the album. > > PPS: Please consider this stuff in context of original question: > "upgrade priority!" Off topic, there is an obvius agenda here, if the sacd layer and cd layer where of the same master the difference may be subtle to nonexisting depending on a lot of things. Nonexisting would be the most common as most recordings are not better than cd anyway. So sacd must be better for everyone buying it rigth ;) "Subtly better on select recordings on the very best equipment for some people" is no selling tag line. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
darrenyeats;684535 Wrote: > Last night I ripped the CD layer of the 2004 SACD Hybrid of 461 Ocean > Boulevard by Eric Clapton. > > Sadly, listening on headphones on the train I can hear clearly that > this master is a lot louder than the early CD release I bought > previously. Disappointing that the loudness war strikes again. > > I will have a look with audacity tonight to survey what I hear. Has > anyone compared the two layers? > Darren Back to the topic, had a look in Audacity. Indeed, SACD (bottom) has had dynamic compression applied compared to early CD release (top). It's not the worst I've experienced, but look at all those peaks at 0db...no excuse for this in a so called "audiophile" SACD Hybrid release. Am willing to believe the SACD layer might be different. Darren PS: Track is "I Shot the Sheriff" which is one of the more upbeat tracks from the album. +---+ |Filename: CD_versus_SACD-CD-layer.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12958| +---+ -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
Folks, calm down. ;-) I was simply suggesting to the OP the possibility that, contrary to conventional wisdom (including my own), Ethernet cable choice may -- underline may -- play a role in sound quality. I was not up to testing, proving, predicting anything. Merely reporting my own subjective experience in the hope that it may be useful to someone else. Ok? Guido F. -- guidof MUSIC ROOM: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge->Conrad Johnson Motif preamp Oppo BDP-83 Universal Player->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC Vortexbox Appliance->WiFi Bridge->Squeezebox Touch->Toslink->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC->Adcom GFP-750 preamp->Music Reference RM-200 Mk II amp -> Martin Logan SL3s DSpeaker Antimode 8033->REL T1 Sub BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch (analog out)->Little Dot Mk III amp->AKG K701 headphones SECOND BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch->Grado SR125 headphones guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
Ron Olsen;684637 Wrote: > I was not proposing a listening test with your fingers in your ears! Oh, good! Guido F. -- guidof MUSIC ROOM: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge->Conrad Johnson Motif preamp Oppo BDP-83 Universal Player->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC Vortexbox Appliance->WiFi Bridge->Squeezebox Touch->Toslink->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC->Adcom GFP-750 preamp->Music Reference RM-200 Mk II amp -> Martin Logan SL3s DSpeaker Antimode 8033->REL T1 Sub BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch (analog out)->Little Dot Mk III amp->AKG K701 headphones SECOND BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch->Grado SR125 headphones guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
garym;684638 Wrote: > I'm aware of *many* single-blind tastings in the wine aficionado > community. Downright common from my experience. It's a good way of > removing price (or country of origin) bias from opinions "'Bottle Shock' (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0914797/)" being only one of the more famous examples -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
guidof;684631 Wrote: > True. And this disinclination in an "audiophile forum" is surprising to > you? > > Yes, yes, -Consumer Reports- does hold double blind wine tasting, but > how many enophiles do you know who would subject themselves to such? Well, there are audiophile forums (eg, hydrogenaudio) and scarequote "audiophile forums". On this particular forum, very little surprises me any more. But I am surprised that some people are so dismissive of the possibility of the placebo effect. In contrast, I find it easier to understand the argument of some that 'I like it better and I don't care if it's placebo or not', even when it costs significant money. And I know lots of oenophiles and appreciators of other fermented beverages that rather enjoy a (single-) blind taste test now and again. Like music, they/we mostly enjoy knowing beforehand what we are drinking or hearing, but blind taste tests can be fun now and again. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
guidof;684631 Wrote: > True. And this disinclination in an "audiophile forum" is surprising to > you? > > Yes, yes, -Consumer Reports- does hold double blind wine tasting, but > how many enophiles do you know who would subject themselves to such? > > Guido F. I'm aware of *many* single-blind tastings in the wine aficionado community. Downright common from my experience. It's a good way of removing price (or country of origin) bias from opinions -- garym *Location 1:* VB Appliance 6TB (1.10) > LMS 7.7.1 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Location 2:* VB Appliance 3TB (2.0) > LMS 7.7.1 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.7.1 > SqueezePlay Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controllers: iPhone (iPeng), iPad (iPengHD & SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
guidof;684632 Wrote: > Yes, I have, and I'm fully aware of the fallibility of our senses. > > Just the same, I don't see any of us driving around with our eyes > closed. ;-) > > Guido F. I was not proposing a listening test with your fingers in your ears! -- Ron Olsen Ron Olsen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9233 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
Ron Olsen;684630 Wrote: > > > Have you watched this video from Ethan Winer's Audio Myths Workshop? > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ > > Then you will learn that hearing can be steered, and what you think you > hear can be affected by non-auditory cues. Yes, I have, and I'm fully aware of the fallibility of our senses. Just the same, I don't see any of us driving around with our eyes closed. ;-) Guido F. -- guidof MUSIC ROOM: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge->Conrad Johnson Motif preamp Oppo BDP-83 Universal Player->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC Vortexbox Appliance->WiFi Bridge->Squeezebox Touch->Toslink->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC->Adcom GFP-750 preamp->Music Reference RM-200 Mk II amp -> Martin Logan SL3s DSpeaker Antimode 8033->REL T1 Sub BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch (analog out)->Little Dot Mk III amp->AKG K701 headphones SECOND BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch->Grado SR125 headphones guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
aubuti;684621 Wrote: > Even suggestions for single-blind tests get the same reactions, or lack > thereof. True. And this disinclination in an "audiophile forum" is surprising to you? Yes, yes, -Consumer Reports- does hold double blind wine tasting, but how many enophiles do you know who would subject themselves to such? Guido F. -- guidof MUSIC ROOM: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge->Conrad Johnson Motif preamp Oppo BDP-83 Universal Player->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC Vortexbox Appliance->WiFi Bridge->Squeezebox Touch->Toslink->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC->Adcom GFP-750 preamp->Music Reference RM-200 Mk II amp -> Martin Logan SL3s DSpeaker Antimode 8033->REL T1 Sub BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch (analog out)->Little Dot Mk III amp->AKG K701 headphones SECOND BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch->Grado SR125 headphones guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
guidof;684620 Wrote: > Yes, it makes me happy. ;-) > > I'm not a technical person, but I thought Phil had provided some > technical facts that seemed plausible to me. > > I was just as skeptical as you, as my OP makes clear. That skepticism > does not, however, render me incapable of noticing audio differences. > > Having lived for half a century with audio-related choices made without > the benefits of double blind tests, I don't think I'm going to start > now. ;-) > > Guido F. I was only proposing a single-blind test requiring two people. One randomly selects the cable by coin flip, installs selected cable, writes down cable choice, then leaves the room. Second person enters room and listens without seeing cable choice. Listener writes down if it's cable A or cable B. Repeat 20 times. Compare the two lists at end of test. See if listener gets significantly more than 50% correct. Not hard; should only require an hour or two. Have you watched this video from Ethan Winer's Audio Myths Workshop? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ Then you will learn that hearing can be steered, and what you think you hear can be affected by non-auditory cues. -- Ron Olsen Ron Olsen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9233 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
garym;684617 Wrote: > > p.s. Guidof --I'm not directly this at specifically you, just all the > tweaks reported on these forums I _am_ relieved. ;-) Guido F. -- guidof MUSIC ROOM: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge->Conrad Johnson Motif preamp Oppo BDP-83 Universal Player->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC Vortexbox Appliance->WiFi Bridge->Squeezebox Touch->Toslink->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC->Adcom GFP-750 preamp->Music Reference RM-200 Mk II amp -> Martin Logan SL3s DSpeaker Antimode 8033->REL T1 Sub BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch (analog out)->Little Dot Mk III amp->AKG K701 headphones SECOND BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch->Grado SR125 headphones guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
aubuti;684621 Wrote: > Even suggestions for single-blind tests get the same reactions, or lack > thereof. good point, I'd be very pleased to see some single-blind tests of "power cable A vs power cable B" TT3.0 done vs not done. I'm very willing to live with the person performing the experiment to have knowledge of which stimuli is being applied! -- garym *Location 1:* VB Appliance 6TB (1.10) > LMS 7.7.1 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Location 2:* VB Appliance 3TB (2.0) > LMS 7.7.1 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.7.1 > SqueezePlay Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controllers: iPhone (iPeng), iPad (iPengHD & SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
garym;684617 Wrote: > I've made the double blind test suggestion many times on this forum and > to my knowledge, no one has ever reported back with any results. Plenty > of people report back their (often very mistaken) concerns about why > double-blind tests are not valuable. Even suggestions for single-blind tests get the same reactions, or lack thereof. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
Ron Olsen;684610 Wrote: > In that same post, Phil says > > 'Generic advice such as "Use Cat 5 not Cat 6 to avoid ground plane RF > transmission/coupling issues" still stands.' > > So it appears that Cat 5 is preferable to Cat 6 to avoid RF effects > that could influence downstream audio components. > > Since you only spent $15 for the Cat 6 cable and you think it sounds > better, stick with it if it makes you happy. But the technical facts > are not on your side. > > I'd be more inclined to believe you if you could pass a blind listening > test with Cat 5e vs. Cat 6. If you're curious to find out if the > difference you heard is real or not, give it a try. Yes, it makes me happy. ;-) I'm not a technical person, but I thought Phil had provided some technical facts that seemed plausible to me. I was just as skeptical as you, as my OP makes clear. That skepticism does not, however, render me incapable of noticing audio differences. Having lived for half a century with audio-related choices made without the benefits of double blind tests, I don't think I'm going to start now. ;-) Guido F. -- guidof MUSIC ROOM: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge->Conrad Johnson Motif preamp Oppo BDP-83 Universal Player->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC Vortexbox Appliance->WiFi Bridge->Squeezebox Touch->Toslink->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC->Adcom GFP-750 preamp->Music Reference RM-200 Mk II amp -> Martin Logan SL3s DSpeaker Antimode 8033->REL T1 Sub BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch (analog out)->Little Dot Mk III amp->AKG K701 headphones SECOND BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch->Grado SR125 headphones guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
Ron Olsen;684610 Wrote: > I'd be more inclined to believe you if you could pass a blind listening > test with Cat 5e vs. Cat 6. If you're curious to find out if the > difference you heard is real or not, give it a try. I've made the double blind test suggestion many times on this forum and to my knowledge, no one has ever reported back with any results. Plenty of people report back their (often very mistaken) concerns about why double-blind tests are not valuable. But never a simple n/N trials I was able to tell the difference between setup A and setup B. This is the minimum open to report audible differences at a place like hydrogenaudio.org (TOS #8) or else your thread is closed and your post trashcanned. I don't believe in being that extreme, and I do understand that some things are difficult to test (hardware modifications, as one can't easily go backwards). But there are many things that can easily be ABX blind tested (TT3.0 mods, cables, streaming PCM vs FLAC, etc. etc. p.s. Guidof --I'm not directly this at specifically you, just all the tweaks reported on these forums -- garym *Location 1:* VB Appliance 6TB (1.10) > LMS 7.7.1 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Location 2:* VB Appliance 3TB (2.0) > LMS 7.7.1 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) > LMS 7.7.1 > SqueezePlay Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controllers: iPhone (iPeng), iPad (iPengHD & SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
guidof;684598 Wrote: > Spending lots of money on ANY "audiophile" cable IS foolish. That was > NOT my suggestion. > > While data transmission is not affected by choice of Ethernet cables, > that may not necessarily mean there is no difference in the audio one > hears. (See my previous post and Phil Leigh's response on post #316) at > > http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322&page=32 > > Would I rewire the house in search of improvements in the sound? No. > > But if I could test the difference with a short run of cat6, as I did, > why not? It was only $15 and worth every dime to me. > > Of course, no guarantee it would work for someone else. But it might. > > Guido F. In that same post, Phil says 'Generic advice such as "Use Cat 5 not Cat 6 to avoid ground plane RF transmission/coupling issues" still stands.' So it appears that cat 5 is preferable to cat 6 to avoid RF effects that could influence downstream audio components. -- Ron Olsen Ron Olsen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9233 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
aubuti;684603 Wrote: > Maybe there's a typo or something, but now I'm puzzled about the results > of your test. In post #6 of this thread you said -"In my system, even a > better (Monster, $15) cat6 Ethernet cable did cause a significant SQ > improvement. I know, tough to believe, but that has been my > experience."- > > But in the post from last November that you just cited you said -"At > this point it's really immaterial which of the two sounds "better," but > for the record it's NOT the Monster."- True. At that point it WAS immaterial. Later, however, as I changed my subwoofer's settings, it became clear that the cat6 Monster was indeed the better choice. More (and tighter) bass, more open sound, better timbres, etc. Again, my main point is that Ethernet cables MAY yield some audible differences. Which is best, if any, depends, I think, on a variety of factors related to one's system. Guido F. -- guidof MUSIC ROOM: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge->Conrad Johnson Motif preamp Oppo BDP-83 Universal Player->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC Vortexbox Appliance->WiFi Bridge->Squeezebox Touch->Toslink->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC->Adcom GFP-750 preamp->Music Reference RM-200 Mk II amp -> Martin Logan SL3s DSpeaker Antimode 8033->REL T1 Sub BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch (analog out)->Little Dot Mk III amp->AKG K701 headphones SECOND BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch->Grado SR125 headphones guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
guidof;684598 Wrote: > But if I could test the difference with a short run of cat6, as I did, > why not? It was only $15 and worth every dime to me. Maybe there's a typo or something, but now I'm puzzled about the results of your test. In post #6 of this thread you said -"In my system, even a better (Monster, $15) cat6 Ethernet cable did cause a significant SQ improvement. I know, tough to believe, but that has been my experience."- But in the post from last November that you just cited you said -"At this point it's really immaterial which of the two sounds "better," but for the record it's NOT the Monster."- -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
Ron Olsen;684561 Wrote: > Any cat 5e or cat 6 Ethernet cable will work and produce identical > results. Spending lots of money on "audiophile" Ethernet cable is > foolish. > > You can buy terminated Belden cat 5e cable for around $1/ft. No need to > spend more. http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/data-cables/index.htm > > I'm copying my music and video library from one server to another on my > network over generic cat 5e Ethernet cable. 1.8 TB of data. All of it > will be exactly correct at the receiving end due to multiple layers of > error detection and correction in the data transmission protocols. > > Look elsewhere to improve audio quality. Spending lots of money on ANY "audiophile" cable IS foolish. That was NOT my suggestion. While data transmission is not affected by choice of Ethernet cables, that may not necessarily mean there is no difference in the audio one hears. (See my previous post and Phil Leigh's response on post #316) at http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322&page=32 Would I rewire the house in search of improvements in the sound? No. But if I could test the difference with a short run of cat6, as I did, why not? It was only $15 and worth every dime to me. Of course, no guarantee it would work for someone else. But it might. Guido F. -- guidof MUSIC ROOM: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge->Conrad Johnson Motif preamp Oppo BDP-83 Universal Player->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC Vortexbox Appliance->WiFi Bridge->Squeezebox Touch->Toslink->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC->Adcom GFP-750 preamp->Music Reference RM-200 Mk II amp -> Martin Logan SL3s DSpeaker Antimode 8033->REL T1 Sub BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch (analog out)->Little Dot Mk III amp->AKG K701 headphones SECOND BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch->Grado SR125 headphones guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
Any cat 5e or cat 6 Ethernet cable will work and produce identical results. Spending lots of money on "audiophile" Ethernet cable is foolish. I'm copying my music and video library from one server to another on my network over generic cat 5e Ethernet cable. 1.8 TB of data. All of it will be exactly correct at the receiving end due to many layers of error detection and correction in the data transmission protocols. Look elsewhere to improve audio quality. -- Ron Olsen Ron Olsen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9233 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
Ambrose;683143 Wrote: > I don't really need a sub, the Neats dig quite low and have excellent > bass/punchy sound. > http://www.whathifi.com/review/neat-motive-3 > I will look at ethernet cables however thanks. Are you sure...? It's entirely up to you obviously, but consider the following. Human beings can hear down to 20Hz. Your Neats have a quoted frequency range of 45Hz upwards (according to http://www.hifix.co.uk/bookshelf-speakers/neat-acoustics/motive-3.html which assume is base on the manufacturer's specs) Those specs are quite likely to be optimistic and may well be the -6dB figure. Not all recordings have information below 45Hz but some do. Some of it is muscial and some merely ambient, but there is information. Some people go as far as to say that it makes a very significant difference to the impression of reality of a recording through spatial cues; I myself use a sub with my proac tablettes (nominal frquecny range 38Hz upwards) and found that they gave a very definite improvement both to the indivual sound of certin instruments (from cellos down) and to the sense of space in the recording as a whole. It seems to be to be indisputable that you could achieve greater somewhat fidelity to the recording by getting a sub or speakers with a wider frequency range. You don't have to of course, but if you want an imnprovments there is one which is plainly achievable and makes sense. So why ignore that and instead look at better ethernet cables (and a linear psu) which might at best [I'm going to restrain myself from going any further, but this much is indisputable] make a very very very slight difference to the sound? -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
darrenyeats;683041 Wrote: > Spend a bit of time researching your favourite music to see if there are > alternative masters. SACDs are sometimes mastered better (the risk is > hybrids where the CD layer has just a standard master). Also MOFI > releases can sound good. > Darren Last night I ripped the CD layer of the 2004 SACD Hybrid of 461 Ocean Boulevard by Eric Clapton. Sadly, listening on headphones on the train I can hear clearly that this master is a lot louder than the early CD release I bought previously. Disappointing that the loudness war strikes again. I will have a look with audacity tonight to survey what I hear. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
SBGK;683035 Wrote: > following Soundcheck's advice > > would start with a linear power supply or battery equivalent, that > might be enough, see what that sounds like. without this, spending > money downstream is not going to be as effective. > > if you have money left over buy a dac. > > or learn to accept what you have and buy a lot of music. Thanks SBGK. I forgot to mention I have the Sbooster linear PS and agree this is one of the first things to address. I would not listen to touch without one now! I'll check out DAC for sure and also to hear your experience with the Fidelity Audio surgery :-) Cheers Ambrose -- Ambrose Ambrose's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=53026 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
guidof;683033 Wrote: > I tend to agree with Ron's take on this. > > However, matching (integrating) a sub is not without its challenges. > Room mode taming, an important consideration for decent low-frequency > sound, will require room treatment for sound absorption (Tube Traps, or > similar) and/or digital signal processing correction. I had excellent > results with the DSpeaker unit in my sig. > > The validity of Ron's point also hinges on the type of music you mostly > listen to and how fussy a listener you are. > > Don't overlook cables. In my system, even a better (Monster, $15) cat6 > Ethernet cable did cause a significant SQ improvement. I know, tough to > believe, but that has been my experience. > > Best luck! > > Guido F. I don't really need a sub, the Neats dig quite low and have excellent bass/punchy sound. http://www.whathifi.com/review/neat-motive-3 I will look at ethernet cables however thanks. -- Ambrose Ambrose's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=53026 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
TheOctavist;683007 Wrote: > none of that stuff. acoustically treat the room. that will make a bigger > difference than ANY component. Including speakers. I promise. Thanks, but I don't have ideal setup for speaker placement (oak sideboard) although this doesn't seem to adversly affect sound, except for the imaging. I don't have options for any soundproofing given setup but with some of the different priority tuning in the Soundcheck 3 thread I have experienced better sound in some areas and know that my system can reveal more. In addition, when testing LAN opposed to WLAN I got improvement, more significantly when removing ethernet cable and listening to last 20-30seconds in buffer. I think I will look at sorting LAN connection first and then save up for DAC hoping this will be a good step up over the SBT dac. -- Ambrose Ambrose's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=53026 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
Jeff Flowerday;682976 Wrote: > Definitely get that wireless radio turned off in the Touch. > > Next I would say, audition some DACs at home if you can. Rega is a > definate upgrade to the touch dac. Note it takes a while to burn in > and upgrading the power cord to an inexpensive as possible shielded > power cord really helps as well. Hi Jeff, wireless radio turned off in the Touch Do you mean connecting Wired and turning off WLAN using Soundcheck toolbox please? I do have opportunity to try Rega at home and think this maybe worth saving up for before spending elsewhere, except for sorting wired connection of course. Thanks for your reply Ambrose -- Ambrose Ambrose's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=53026 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
You cannot achieve the same results with digital room correction as you can applying acoustic treatments to a room. DRC may address a particular issue at a location in the room whilst introducing others and cannot eliminate cancellations, whereas appropriate acoustic treatments can. -- audiomuze *'Linux finally gets a great audio tagger' (http://www.ubuntugeek.com/linux-finally-gets-a-great-audio-tagger.html): 'puddletag' (http://puddletag.sourceforge.net/)* audiomuze's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=33613 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
SBGK;683035 Wrote: > following Soundcheck's advice > > would start with a linear power supply or battery equivalent, that > might be enough, see what that sounds like. without this, spending > money downstream is not going to be as effective. > > if you have money left over buy a dac. > > or learn to accept what you have and buy a lot of music. actually with 99 percent of rooms no upgrade even has any merit because the room acoustics maul tge sound.room treatment is THE number one most effective "tweek". i promise. throwing thousands at boxes and wire is silly when hundreds or less on treating room issues will be 200% more effective -- TheOctavist Vortexbox>SBT(TT 3.0)>>Forssell MDAC-2>>>Klein and Hummell 0300D Sota Sapphire/Lyra Kleos>>Bespoke Valve Phono Stage>>Mastersound Due Venti>>Link Audio K100 TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
TheOctavist;683007 Wrote: > none of that stuff. acoustically treat the room. that will make a bigger > difference than ANY component. Including speakers. I promise. Oh, yes do some acoustic treatement. Try "basotect", this is very good. -- praganj praganj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41091 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
Spend a bit of time researching your favourite music to see if there are alternative masters. SACDs are sometimes mastered better (the risk is hybrids where the CD layer has just a standard master). Also MOFI releases can sound good. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
following Soundcheck's advice would start with a linear power supply or battery equivalent, that might be enough, see what that sounds like. without this, spending money downstream is not going to be as effective. if you have money left over buy a dac. or learn to accept what you have and buy a lot of music. -- SBGK SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
Ron Olsen;682979 Wrote: > A matching subwoofer to extend audio response down to 30 Hz will give > more listening pleasure than any of those other changes. I tend to agree with Ron's take on this. However, matching (integrating) a sub is not without its challenges. Room mode taming, an important consideration for decent low-frequency sound, will require room treatment for sound absorption (Tube Traps, or similar) and/or digital signal processing correction. I had excellent results with the DSpeaker unit in my sig. The validity of Ron's point also hinges on the type of music you mostly listen to and how fussy a listener you are. Don't overlook cables. In my system, even a better (Monster, $15) cat6 Ethernet cable did cause a significant SQ improvement. I know, tough to believe, but that has been my experience. Best luck! Guido F. -- guidof MUSIC ROOM: Marantz TT 15S1 Turntable, Virtuoso Wood Cartridge->Conrad Johnson Motif preamp Oppo BDP-83 Universal Player->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC Vortexbox Appliance->WiFi Bridge->Squeezebox Touch->Toslink->Cambridge Azur 840C DAC->Adcom GFP-750 preamp->Music Reference RM-200 Mk II amp -> Martin Logan SL3s DSpeaker Antimode 8033->REL T1 Sub BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch (analog out)->Little Dot Mk III amp->AKG K701 headphones SECOND BEDROOM: Squeezebox Touch->Grado SR125 headphones guidof's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
Yea, I agree with the other posts. None of those things are going to make a big difference. Those speakers are small, and specs don't give you +- dB for the frequency range. * Subwoofer or floorstanders are a good idea. * Room acoustic treatment is going to also make a huge difference. Another option would be to try the inguz room correction system. Get a good refernece microphone (like an earthworks) and USB transport to do the recording. -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
none of that stuff. acoustically treat the room. that will make a bigger difference than ANY component. Including speakers. I promise. -- TheOctavist Vortexbox>SBT(TT 3.0)>>Forssell MDAC-2>>>Klein and Hummell 0300D Sota Sapphire/Lyra Kleos>>Bespoke Valve Phono Stage>>Mastersound Due Venti>>Link Audio K100 TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
A matching subwoofer to extend audio response down to 30 Hz will give more listening pleasure than any of those other changes. -- Ron Olsen Ron Olsen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9233 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Advice please - upgrade priority
Definitely get that wireless radio turned off in the Touch. Next I would say, audition some DACs at home if you can. -- Jeff Flowerday Jeff Flowerday's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15883 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=92924 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
