Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
NewBuyer;553181 Wrote: > After some recent A/B comparisons, I simply have to fully agree with > iPhone on this one - the Transporter is *much* better sounding than the > Touch, each compared via analog outs. > ... > (BUT so is the price difference!) :) Indeed, altough the adverbiums are a hard to quantify in this context, I would also go along with a phrasing such as (the) "Transporter is *much* better sounding than the SB3, and the Touch puts itself somewhere in between"... -- bhaagensen bhaagensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7418 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
iPhone;496794 Wrote: > ...It is just my opinion from listening to both of them for over 6 > months and testing them that the win still goes to the Transporter. I > firmly believe this is especially true if both are being used for their > analog outputs. The Transporter has superior analog outs... IMO if one > is using analog outs and has to have the best, the Transporter wins > hands down... After some recent A/B comparisons, I simply have to fully agree with iPhone on this one - the Transporter is *much* better sounding than the Touch, each compared via analog outs. I wasn't really expecting a big difference, but wow! I don't know exactly why the older Transporter components "under the hood" can produce such a difference, but it's definitely there... but so is the price difference! :) -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
firedog;551329 Wrote: > It wasn't actually me who made the comment about Welborne. I have no > experience with them. Just wanted to set the record straight. No > offense taken on my part. Firedog, sorry. I probably lost my sharpness here. -- SoftwireEngineer SoftwireEngineer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7000 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
SoftwireEngineer;551298 Wrote: > I was worried about Welborne labs after Firedog's comment. So after a > few days of their email saying it has shipped I contacted and they > shipped me one in UPS 3-day select. I guess it is a small time > operation and sometimes when they mess up they are not owning up. But > in my case they remedied it with a fast shipment. This was my second > purchase from Welborne labs and my first was no problem at all. It wasn't actually me who made the comment about Welborne. I have no experience with them. Just wanted to set the record straight. No offense taken on my part. -- firedog Tranquil PC fanless WHS server running SqueezeServer; SB Duet through Empirical Audio Pace Car; MF X-150 amp, MF V DAC3, Devore Gibbon Super 8 Speakers; Mirage MS-12 sub; Dual 506 + Ortofon 20 (occasional use); sometimes use PC with M-Audio 192 as digital source. SB Boom in second room. Arcam CD82 which I don't use anymore, even though it's a very good player. firedog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11550 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
sckramer;548741 Wrote: > cool! take some pics maybe... I'm interested if a new power supply will > improve it, the touch's digital sounds nicer than my old sb3, can it > actually get better!?! I'm definently skeptical tho, seems like they > made the touch pretty immune to the ps My Touch power supply arrived a few days back and it is burning in. I have no doubt a linear power supply improves on the sound of the Touch. I am not sure though that it has to be $200 or something :-). I was worried about Welborne labs after Firedog's comment. So after a few days of their email saying it has shipped I contacted and they shipped me one in UPS 3-day select. I guess it is a small time operation and sometimes when they mess up they are not owning up. But in my case they remedied it with a fast shipment. This was my second purchase from Welborne labs and my first was no problem at all. The Touch with the new Power supply is the best digital I have heard in my home. Drums are hard and have a realistic tone, stringed instruments sound like they have just been restrung and there is a "hole in the wall" like soundstaging which is very uncanny. I suggest that people who have good players/transports also check the Touch outin their main system and not relegate it to a secondary/bedroom system and if you can get a good linear power supply that is great as well (in my case, I had a modified Elpac power supply on hand and so from day one, I could not go back to using the stock switching power supply). I actually I recommend a linear powersupply for a good audiophile digital output (yes, I use only the digital output into a Panasonic Digital Amplifier based receiver. -- SoftwireEngineer SoftwireEngineer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7000 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
SoftwireEngineer;547993 Wrote: > They said it has shipped. I will report back in a few days. Usually it > takes 50hrs or so for the power supply to open up. cool! take some pics maybe... I'm interested if a new power supply will help, the touch's digital sounds nicer than my old sb3, can it actually get better!?! -- sckramer Sb touch - PSaudio DL3 (Cullen level 3) - PSaudio Trio C-100 (Cullen level 3) - energy veritas 2.2i - Martin Logan descent -- PSaudio ac3 power cables - psaudio duet - cardas quadlink 5 interconnect -- Transparent digital cable (1.5m) - audio quest slate spkr cables biwire sckramer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20311 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
Firedog, I know you would do that..but I was meaning to get a baseline with the Touch and the Duet+Pacecar, before you mod the Touch. I run my Touch digital output into my Panasonic Digital Amplifier receiver and since the receiver was lowend I never bothered to improved the source. Now that I have seen how much the quality of the digital signal matters I am very motivated to get the Pacecar even while running with this receiver. BTW, i have persevered with the Panasonic for 3 or 4 years and am very happy with it. I think I have to pay a few thousands in separates to get to this level of quality. I was actually running the Touch with the modded Elpac wm050, modified by Boldercables. I just sold it. Maybe it is not worth the 30 or 40 bucks I got for it. I should have just kept it. The Welborne lab guys never send out a status and reply only after you send them an email. I think it is a small shop and are overwhelmed by the business. I was happy with the quality and improvement made by the Duet power supply so that is why I have ordered one for my Touch. They said it has shipped. I will report back in a few days. Usually it takes 50hrs or so for the power supply to open up. -- SoftwireEngineer SoftwireEngineer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7000 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
SoftwireEngineer;547607 Wrote: > After having listened to the Touch with a modified Elpac, I cannot now > listen to it with the stock switching supply. I just turned off the > system and am on the computer now. I am waiting for a Welborne labs > power supply. It made quite a difference to my Duet and now I have > ordered a new one with the 5v for the Touch. Should be here in a few > days. It usually takes 50-100hrs for breakin. Even the Touch needed > some breakin time. This costs about $200+S&H. > (BTW, please let us know how the Touch fares against the Duet+Pace Car. > That was my original direction, but after I got the Touch, I am not that > motivated to get the Pace car. But your feedback on this could be > valuable to me, thanks) I assume you are using the Touch through the analogue outs? Steven Stone wrote about improved power supplies for the Duet and said that with analogue they made an improvement, but not when using the Duet as a digital transport. What modified Elpac are you using? Do you have a link? I'll definitely let you know how the Touch sounds with the Pace Car. (It probably will take a 6 weeks to two months to get the units shipped to Empirical, modded, and sent back, though). I'm not really expecting much, if any, improvement. I'm getting the Touch so I can have native 24/96 playback, which I don't have in my present setup. The Pace-Car Duet combo is noticeably better sounding than the standard Duet, FYI. -- firedog Tranquil PC fanless WHS server running SqueezeServer; SB Duet through Empirical Audio Pace Car; MF X-150 amp, MF V DAC3, Devore Gibbon Super 8 Speakers; Mirage MS-12 sub; Dual 506 + Ortofon 20 (occasional use); sometimes use PC with M-Audio 192 as digital source. SB Boom in second room. Arcam CD82 which I don't use anymore, even though it's a very good player. firedog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11550 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
Be careful with wellborne labs he is a scam. Google, he very often rips off customers and do not deliver the stuff. Or incomplete kits or broken or the wrong stuff... And feed you lies trough email that the ps "is shipping" etc, after a while he stops responding to email. I have personally been ripped of by wellborne, so I have first hand experience. If you feel the need for an external ps try channel island audio (if they got any Touch supplies yet). It is often possible to use an SB3 supply, given that you don not use to much power. this basically means not using the USB conection. Touch uses a bit more amps than SB3 but the voltage and connector is the same . Some aftermarket SB3 PS may already have the amps for it. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J and assorted amps SiriuS, Classe'Primare and Dynadio speakers (including a pair of Contour 4 ) Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Miscellaneous use: Radio (with battery) I use a Controller various ir-remotes and a Eee-PC with squeezeplay to control this Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
firedog;547013 Wrote: > What PS did you order? I'm looking for one that isn't outrageously > expensive (re:cost much less than the Touch itself) that will be an > improvement over the stock supply. > > Let us know if yours improves the sound. > > Thanks After having listened to the Touch with a modified Elpac, I cannot now listen to it with the stock switching supply. I just turned off the system and am on the computer now. I am waiting for a Welborne labs power supply. It made quite a difference to my Duet and now I have ordered a new one with the 5v for the Touch. Should be here in a few days. It usually takes 50-100hrs for breakin. Even the Touch needed some breakin time. This costs about $200+S&H. -- SoftwireEngineer SoftwireEngineer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7000 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
SoftwireEngineer;546955 Wrote: > One of the reasons the Transporter is better is because of the builtin > high quality power supply. By that argument, a good external power > supply should benefit the SBs too. Actually, in my experience, an > unmodified Duet responded so very well with an external power supply. I > am completely impressed with the Touch - it (alongwith the modified > Elpac) beat my modified SB3 + modified Elpac power supply, stock Duet > + external power supply, my modified Oppo DVD player. I have ordered a > power supply for my Touch based on this experience. What PS did you order? I'm looking for one that isn't outrageously expensive (re:cost much less than the Touch itself) that will be an improvement over the stock supply. Let us know if yours improves the sound. Thanks -- firedog Tranquil PC fanless WHS server running SqueezeServer; SB Duet through Empirical Audio Pace Car; MF X-150 amp, MF V DAC3, Devore Gibbon Super 8 Speakers; Mirage MS-12 sub; Dual 506 + Ortofon 20 (occasional use); sometimes use PC with M-Audio 192 as digital source. SB Boom in second room. Arcam CD82 which I don't use anymore, even though it's a very good player. firedog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11550 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
iPhone;496794 Wrote: > > ... > By my remarks about the Transporter, please don't get me wrong as the > Touch will make a fine digital transport .. One of the reasons the Transporter is better is because of the builtin high quality power supply. By that argument, a good external power supply should benefit the SBs too. Actually, in my experience, an unmodified Duet responded so very well with an external power supply. I am completely impressed with the Touch - it (alongwith the modified Elpac) beat my modified SB3 + modified Elpac power supply, stock Duet + external power supply, my modified Oppo DVD player. I have ordered a power supply for my Touch based on this experience. -- SoftwireEngineer SoftwireEngineer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7000 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
Anyone able to compare the sound of these 2 devices? I'd be curious to hear the result. (obviously the Touch has the 96k file capability, which isn't a point of comparison, but let's ignore that and compare the 2 as they reproduce standard 16/44.1) Thanks -- firedog Tranquil PC fanless WHS server running SqueezeServer; SB Duet through Empirical Audio Pace Car; MF X-150 amp, MF V DAC3, Devore Gibbon Super 8 Speakers; Mirage MS-12 sub; Dual 506 + Ortofon 20 (occasional use); sometimes use PC with M-Audio 192 as digital source. SB Boom in second room. Arcam CD82 which I don't use anymore, even though it's a very good player. firedog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11550 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
Thanks for the feedback. Yes the SB volume control is set to max. It isn't a big deal but normally (CD/Tuner/turntable) the Naim preamp is lower for the same output. Maybe the SB Touch output is just a little lower. -- spile spile's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37780 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
spile;539846 Wrote: > I've just bought a Touch with the aim of moving from CD transport to > network stored FLAC files. > Am impressed with the results so far but I've noticed that output into > My Naim pre-amp is somewhat lower than I'd have expected. > Second, I'm wondering if I should feed the Touch directly into my Naim > NAP250 power amp??? > > Not using an external DAC but would be interested in others opinions. Hello and Welcome to the Forum. NOTE: All testing started with the Touch volume set to zero. If and only if your Naim amp does not have enough gain so that you can listen to the Touch at full volume, then using the Touch alone is OK. If not, before you damage your speakers, find out how high you can adjust the volume before its to loud and buy the appropriate set of fixed or variable attenuators for the Touch RCA outs. Many people prefer using just a Squeezebox, amp, and speakers. -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Second Boom Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
spile;539846 Wrote: > Am impressed with the results so far but I've noticed that output into > My Naim pre-amp is somewhat lower than I'd have expected. Are you sure the SBT's volume is at maximum ? spile;539846 Wrote: > Second, I'm wondering if I should feed the Touch directly into my Naim > NAP250 power amp??? Yes you can, but you need to be careful with the Touch's volume level: if there's a software bug and it gets at maximum, you'll blow your speakers out. Or your ears. As far as I know, if you consider that the sound without the preamp is "better", I would suggest changing the preamp. A good preamp is fairly transparent, and it is supposed to drive better your amp than a source. ;) -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Croft 25Pre and Series 7 power - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
I've just bought a Touch with the aim of moving from CD transport to network stored FLAC files. Am impressed with the results so far but I've noticed that output into My Naim pre-amp is somewhat lower than I'd have expected. Second, I'm wondering if I should feed the Touch directly into my Naim NAP250 power amp??? Not using an external DAC but would be interested in others opinions. -- spile spile's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37780 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
I've just bought a Touch with the aim of moving from CD transport to network stored FLAC files. Am impressed with the results so far but I've noticed that output into My Naim pre-amp is somewhat lower than I'd have expected. Second, I'm wondering if I should feed the Touch directly into my Naim NAP250 power amp??? Not using an external DAC but would be interested in others opinions. -- spile spile's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37780 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
>From an "audiophile" perspective one might want to steer away from bus-powered devices as they can inject or cause higher noise levels in the Touch that can impact the DAC... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
sxr71;499809 Wrote: > I head the voltage is different and the shipping touch will use a > different connector so people don't plug in the wrong PS. I thought I read that somewhere as well, but it's not the case. They're interchangeable. The only difference is that the Touch's power supply delivers 3A instead of 2A, so an SB2/3 power supply may not be able to deliver sufficient current to power an attached USB drive. I'm pretty sure most beta tester have production versions of the Touch in hand. Mine says hardware version 5, which someone who was able to buy one in September also reported. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
JohnSwenson;498605 Wrote: > The connector and voltage for the Touch is identical to the SB3. If you > have a bus powered USB device plugged into the Touch (such as a USB hard > drive) it can draw more current than an SB3. So a linear supply that has > more than enough current capability for an SB3 will probably run the > Touch with no problems as long as you don't have a bus bus powered drive > connected. If you do want to run a bus powered drive make sure the > supply can handle at least 2.5 A and you should be fine. > > I have personally used the DIY linear supply I use for my SB3 with the > touch, it works fine. But I have not noticed any improvements in sound. > The switcher that comes with the Touch is significantly better than the > one for the SB3 so going with a linear supply is not nearly as big a > deal. But you certainly CAN if you want to. > > John S. I head the voltage is different and the shipping touch will use a different connector so people don't plug in the wrong PS. -- sxr71 sxr71's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18773 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
The connector and voltage for the Touch is identical to the SB3. If you have a bus powered USB device plugged into the Touch (such as a USB hard drive) it can draw more current than an SB3. So a linear supply that has more than enough current capability for an SB3 will probably run the Touch with no problems as long as you don't have a bus bus powered drive connected. If you do want to run a bus powered drive make sure the supply can handle at least 2.5 A and you should be fine. I have personally used the DIY linear supply I use for my SB3 with the touch, it works fine. But I have not noticed any improvements in sound. The switcher that comes with the Touch is significantly better than the one for the SB3 so going with a linear supply is not nearly as big a deal. But you certainly CAN if you want to. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
zzvelik;498339 Wrote: > I thank you all for all the informative posts. I'm leaning on a > pre-order. For those who have beta tested the Touch, would a linear > power supply that fits into the SB3 fit the connector on the Touch? > Thanks After market PS offer no improvement or advantages unless one has a dead OEM supply, a ground loop problem caused by the OEM PS, or audible noise in playback traced back to the OEM PS. If one is going to waste money on after market products or "Mods" to the Touch, save your money and just buy a Transporter! *One last note, the current required for a Touch is more then for an SB3. DO NOT USE an SB3 rated PS on a Touch.* -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Second Boom Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
I thank you all for all the informative posts. I'm leaning on a pre-order. For those who have beta tested the Touch, would a linear power supply that fits into the SB3 fit the connector on the Touch? Thanks -- zzvelik zzvelik's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10205 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
zzvelik;496687 Wrote: > Lots of people who have the modded version of the SB3 would swear that > their device rivals the transporter for non 24/96 material such as Red > Book CDs the FLAC format. Honestly, I've never done an A/B test between > the two devices, but that's the consensus I've gathered from the various > audio forums. It's sort of like comparing cars from the same make, but > from different generations. Previous generation BMW models may not look > as aesthetically appeasing to some, but they do offer the best best bang > the your buck especially when you consider the availability and cost of > modifications vs the performance ratio. If by modified SB3 you are referring to the 'SB+' (http://www.at-view.co.uk/sb2.htm), then yes it is as good as a Transporter. But if you are talking about Boulder or any of the other rip-offs selling modified SB3's then not even close to a TP or even up to a Touch for that matter. By borrowing most and buying a few, I have tested almost all of them. Some actually perform worse then a base line SB3 and most only show the slightest increase on the graph which is not even enough to be enough to be heard because the improvement is so so small as to be barely the thickness of the original graphing line better. When doing accurate and extensive listening tests, there are no differences or improvements if one hasn't spend ones hard earned dollars and expecting to hear some! Besides by the time one buys an SB3 and gets it back from Boulder with all the possible modifications, one could have just bought a Transporter and saved $300 or more dollars and ended up with a Transporter that does play 24/96 native! By my remarks about the Transporter, please don't get me wrong as the Touch will make a fine digital transport that is a big improvement over the SB3 with the added bonus of playing 24/96 native. It is just my opinion from listening to both of them for over 6 months and testing them that the win still goes to the Transporter. I firmly believe this is especially true if both are being used for their analog outputs. The Transporter has superior analog outs. Running both digital outputs into my Dodson DA-217 MK2-D Digital Processor things get much closer with again with the Transporter being the winner (but its much closer). So it comes down to how its being used as to which to buy now. IMO if one is using analog outs and has to have the best, the Transporter wins hands down. If one only needs a digital transport for a very good DAC, then I say buy a Touch. -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Second Boom Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
zzvelik;496687 Wrote: > Lots of people who have the modded version of the SB3 would swear that > their device rivals the transporter for non 24/96 material such as Red > Book CDs the FLAC format. Honestly, I've never done an A/B test between > the two devices, but that's the consensus I've gathered from the various > audio forums. It's sort of like comparing cars from the same make, but > from different generations. Previous generation BMW models may not look > as aesthetically appeasing to some, but they do offer the best best bang > the your buck especially when you consider the availability and cost of > modifications vs the performance ratio. I'm willing to take a punt that the Touch will outperform ANY modded SB3 as a spdif transport. I also believe it possible (but would like to test) that it is as good as the TP on that role. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
iPhone;496591 Wrote: > Why would the Touch take any market share from the Transporter? Lots of people who have the modded version of the SB3 would swear that their device rivals the transporter for non 24/96 material such as Red Book CDs the FLAC format. Honestly, I've never done an A/B test between the two devices, but that's the consensus I've gathered from the various audio forums. It's sort of like comparing cars from the same make, but from different generations. Previous generation BMW models may not look as aesthetically appeasing to some, but they do offer the best best bang the your buck especially when you consider the availability and cost of modifications vs the performance ratio. -- zzvelik zzvelik's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10205 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
The high-end (expensive) digital is becoming harder and harder to justify as time passes. Network digital sources crushed CD drives. Affordable D/A converters are approaching dangerously the quality of older high-end dacs. It seems as if the market of digital sources is being compressed: Excellent clocks cost nothing, 120dB dac chips cost no more and they have embedded filters and a direct output stage. You just need a clean power and you can have a source that you can hardly criticize (if you don't know the price^^). The redbook is a mature format, whoever wants more needs another format. ;) -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Cyrus 8xp - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
iPhone wrote: > zzvelik;496380 Wrote: >> The positive beta reviews coupled with last Friday's delay announcement >> makes me wonder if the Touch is being crippled in some way so it doesn't >> take any market share away from the Transporter. > > Why would the Touch take any market share from the Transporter? The > Touch is an upgraded replacement for the SB3 (Classic). Yes it does > 24/96 native, but it is no Transporter or TP replacement. The Touch is > not being "Crippled" in any way. While I agree with @iPhone that the Touch is not crippled in any way, I do see a way for the Touch to be a replacement for the Transporter. The Touch is better from an audiophile standpoint than the Classic, way better. So you can argue that the Touch could take 80% or more of the TP market. Since the TP market is tiny, its not much of a stretch to have it take it all. Plus, the TP is old. While its still an impressive piece, I'm not sure that the TP has much more life. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
zzvelik;496380 Wrote: > The positive beta reviews coupled with last Friday's delay announcement > makes me wonder if the Touch is being crippled in some way so it doesn't > take any market share away from the Transporter. I don't claim to understand much about Logitech's strategic vision, but I am 100% certain that Logitech's vision of the future looks a lot more like the $300 Touch than the $2000 Transporter. Or even the heavily discounted $1200 TPs that have been appearing on audiogon. Besides, if they wanted to cripple the Touch why delay it, when they could 'cripple' it today by sending it out before the software is ready. You need more than that for a good internet conspiracy theory. -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
zzvelik;496380 Wrote: > Thanks for the quick response. My setup uses the Primare SPA21 as my > main amp/processor as well as the DAC. It has a pair of Burr-Brown > DACs, PCM1738 to be exact. I connect the SB3 via the digital audio > coaxial cable and it sounds very good to me. > > The positive beta reviews coupled with last Friday's delay announcement > makes me wonder if the Touch is being crippled in some way so it doesn't > take any market share away from the Transporter. I hope that's not the > case as Logitech would do more volume sales on the Touch to > pseudo-audiophiles like myself that aren't willing to shell out the > dough for the transporter. Just some thoughts running through my mind > while I contemplate about pre-ordering the Touch. Why would the Touch take any market share from the Transporter? The Touch is an upgraded replacement for the SB3 (Classic). Yes it does 24/96 native, but it is no Transporter or TP replacement. The Touch is not being "Crippled" in any way. The TP is a niche product and the Touch is a Classic replacement. Will the Touch make a good digital transport? It will, but it still isn't a Transporter. Transporter has better power supplies and better DAC support circuitry. Plus all the high end output options. -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Second Boom Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
Thanks for the quick response. My setup uses the Primare SPA21 as my main amp/processor as well as the DAC. It has a pair of Burr-Brown DACs, PCM1738 to be exact. I connect the SB3 via the digital audio coaxial cable and it sounds very good to me. The positive beta reviews coupled with last Friday's delay announcement makes me wonder if the Touch is being crippled in some way so it doesn't take any market share away from the Transporter. I hope that's not the case as Logitech would do more volume sales on the Touch to pseudo-audiophiles like myself that aren't willing to shell out the dough for the transporter. Just some thoughts running through my mind while I contemplate about pre-ordering the Touch. -- zzvelik zzvelik's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10205 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
zzvelik;496187 Wrote: > Hi John, > > Thanks for an informative insight about the upcoming Touch both here & > at the AA. I'd like to know if your SB3 was modded in any way. I have a > SB3 that has the digital output modified by The Bolder Cable Co. along > with a modified Elpac power supply and was wondering how it would fare > overall without taking into account the 24 bit /96 khz audio files. > > Thanks in advance, > > Z The SB3 I was using for the above tests is a stock SB3. The one installed in the main system has definetely been modified. I have a DIY DAC which has two very low jitter oscillators running at the same frequencies as the crystals in the SB3. I run these clocks into the SB3 where they replace the original crystals. I then take the digital signals going to the DAC chips and bring them into the DAC. They go into a FPGA which separates the left justified stream into two 1 channel streams, which go through a reclocker run by the local clock and on to the 1704 DAC chips. So I'm not using either the analog or digital out from the SB3. Its interesting to note that the analog outs sound much better in this configuration, presumably from the lower jitter clocks. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
JohnSwenson;482962 Wrote: > Before that firmware change I would say that the analog outs are better > than the SB3 but not by a huge amount. The digital out is a lot better > than the SB3 digital out. > > With the recent firmware I hear much better sound out of the analog > outs. The result is that the analog outs are now almost as good as the > output from a very good DAC running from the digtal out. Not quite as > good, but very close. > > So I would say that currently the analog outs are now quite a bit > better than the SB3 analog outs. > > And you can do the higher res stuff as well. > > John S. Hi John, Thanks for an informative insight about the upcoming Touch both here & at the AA. I'd like to know if your SB3 was modded in any way. I have a SB3 that has the digital output modified by The Bolder Cable Co. along with a modified Elpac power supply and was wondering how it would fare overall without taking into account the 24 bit /96 khz audio files. Thanks in advance, Z -- zzvelik zzvelik's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10205 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
SB3 will never support 24/96, that is correct. -- andyg andyg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
Hello all, I don't mean to hijack the thread or lay off course, but this is the only appropriate thread I could find to post my question. I had read a post which is almost 2 years old at the AVS forum and it doesn't look like we'll ever have 24/96 on the SB3 due to the CPU according to Michael Valera (See below). So is the CPU still regarded as the bottleneck and should I forgo the possibility of 24/96 supported on the SB3? I don't mind upgrading to the Touch due to the newer features, but my SB3 is modded by Bolder Cable and was hoping to keep it due to the overall sound quality vs upgrading to another unit. <> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=991049 -- zzvelik zzvelik's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10205 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
JohnSwenson;485563 Wrote: > The Touch uses a voltage output DAC whose outputs go directly to the > jacks, no active devices or caps in the path, its about as simple as you > can get. > > I don't remember what the SB3 output looks like, but I did find a > schematic for the SB2 which is supposed to be similar. This has 2 > electrolytic caps in series with the signal and an inexpensive opamp > with active filter. Its a much more complex circuit that the Touch. > > John S. Thank you! -- Roger66 SB classic SB Boom Win XP Pro SP3 Thinkpad X60s Roger66's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=29812 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
Excellent info and summary - thanks John! I also found your Audio Asylum post below, which I believe helped me further understand the situation - especially (as you also stated above) that the S/PDIF performance of the Touch is likely performing better than that of the Squeezebox Classic due to the lack of a S/PDIF output filter, and thus better resulting compatibility with the digital receivers in certain external DACs... JohnSwenson Wrote: > I have actually measured an SB3 (not a Duet) and the jitter in the SB3 > itself is in the 50-60ps range, very different from the cited > measurement. The 320ps number was not actually measuring the jitter of > the S/PDIF signal, but rather looking at the distortions of the analog > signal coming out of a DAC attached to the SB3 and infering the jitter > from those distortions. > > Its a subtle distinction, its not the jitter of the SB3, but the jitter > of the recovered clock in the receiver. It includes jitter added by the > receiver and any problems in the connection between boxes. This is > actually the problem here. > > The SB3 contains a filter on the S/PDIF output designed to reduce EMI > which unfortunately messes up the waveform which prevents the PLL in the > receiver from extracting a low jitter clock. > > This has a couple of interesting ramifications: the jitter of the > recovered clock is going to be very sensitive to the receiver used, > different digital cables make a big difference here, and significantly > decreasing the actual jitter (by using better regulators, better > oscillators etc) won't make all that big a difference. > > BTW getting rid of that filter radically improves things. > > This sensitivity to external factors I think explains a lot of the > disparity in reports about using the SB digital out. > > John S. -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
The Touch uses a voltage output DAC whose outputs go directly to the jacks, no active devices or caps in the path, its about as simple as you can get. I don't remember what the SB3 output looks like, but I did find a schematic for the SB2 which is supposed to be similar. This has 2 electrolytic caps in series with the signal and an inexpensive opamp with active filter. Its a much more complex circuit that the Touch. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
Do you have such detailed information about the advantages of touch's analog section compared to the SB3 ? I'm not interested in any external DAC but I own a decent analogue amp and therefore a good internal section + DAC of SB is important to me. -- Roger66 SB classic SB Boom Win XP Pro SP3 Thinkpad X60s Roger66's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=29812 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
NewBuyer;485215 Wrote: > > On a different aspect though, I keep hearing that the Touch apparently > has "much better" digital output than the SB3. Is there any measurable > truth to that? And if so, is there any actual hardware difference that > must definitely account for it? Yes there are some significant differences in the S/PDIF implementation. In the SB3 the S/PDIF comes out of the FPGA and goes to a CMOS chip, cap, resistors etc and a EMI suppression network. The jitter on the signal coming out of the FPGA is greater than the raw clocks due to electrical noise inside. The EMI suppression network causes an impedance change with frequency which increases reflections on the connection to the DAC, this can lead to increased jitter in the DAC receiver. On the Touch the output from the FPGA gets reclocked by the clock from the oscillators. There are two oscillators so there needs to be a clock mux. In the SB3 that mux is inside the FPGA, but on the Touch its done with a very low jitter external MUX connected directly to the main oscillators. The output circuit does not have the EMI suppression network so it has a much better match to the output transmission line so reflections will be lower. The output driver seems to have been chosen so it will meet the EMI requirements without needing the separate suppression network. The result is quite a bit lower jitter at the DAC. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
JohnSwenson;476773 Wrote: > Remember this is all just conjecture... Finding precise mechanisms for > this sort of thing is very difficult to do, especially because there is > no definitive mechanism or measurement... So for now its all just > guesswork and loose correlations. > > John S. Thanks John - like you, I wish there were ways to measure and verify such things, versus just attributing to opinion and chance. On a different aspect though, I keep hearing that the Touch apparently has "much better" digital output than the SB3. Is there any measurable truth to that? And if so, is there any actual hardware difference that must definitely account for it? -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
An output voltage difference could be an obvious answer. Too obvious, perhaps ... ? ;) -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Cyrus 8xp - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
Thanks John. I did a quick comparison the other night and I thought the SBT analog out sounded better than the SB3. But I don't completely trust that first impression because (a) it wasn't blind, (b) the SBT had better interconnects, and (c) the SBT didn't only sound better, it sounded louder, and I know all too well how those are positively correlated. Re (c) I set the volume of both the SBT and SB3 to 100, but didn't fine tune it beyond that. Can anyone tell me what the analog output level of the SBT is, because I can't find it in the specs. I know the SB3 is 6.0Vpp. And so far I'm not curious enough to go buy a SPL meter to equalize the volume levels. After getting the volume level squared away I can deal with (a) and (b). (Interestingly, my wife was listening and liked the SB3's sound better, and it was blind to her.) -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
Before that firmware change I would say that the analog outs are better than the SB3 but not by a huge amount. The digital out is a lot better than the SB3 digital out. With the recent firmware I hear much better sound out of the analog outs. The result is that the analog outs are now almost as good as the output from a very good DAC running from the digtal out. Not quite as good, but very close. So I would say that currently the analog outs are now quite a bit better than the SB3 analog outs. And you can do the higher res stuff as well. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
Hawkmoon;475879 Wrote: > Just wondered what your thoughts were on the SB Touch, both in terms of > its own internal DAC and as a transport feeding an external DAC? I think the Touch will be good for both of these options. I like the Touch analog outs and a bonus is that it does 24/96 native. My opinion is it is better by far over the SB3 and Receiver. The Touch is better then the Duet or SB3 on the S/PDIF into my Dodson DA-217 MK II. So good as a transport feeding a really good DAC. It is not as good as the Transporter but it is right behind it in the current line up. -- iPhone *iPhone* Media Room: Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1 Living Room: Duet, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Kitchen: Squeezebox BOOM Bedroom: Second Boom Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Ford Thunderbird: Duet, Mac Mini Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
JohnSwenson wrote: > Remember this is all just conjecture, actually being able to measure > this stuff is tough. One possibility is that as code gets "tighter", the > loops are smaller etc, more time is spent in code that stays in the > processor cache, thus there are fewer accesses to the main RAM. While it is just conjecture, similar concepts have been used by the cryptographers to break algorithm by noticing relative cache hit rates and timing, and using that to make guided guesses as to the keys. Never trust a computer. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
Remember this is all just conjecture, actually being able to measure this stuff is tough. One possibility is that as code gets "tighter", the loops are smaller etc, more time is spent in code that stays in the processor cache, thus there are fewer accesses to the main RAM. With fewer accesses there will be less noise on the power and ground traces on the board. This can wind up producing lower jitter on the clock and data feeding the DAC chip and lower noise getting injected into the audio path. Its possible it can also cause less noise on the PS and GND traces from the processor itself, but it could also make it worse! Finding precise mechanisms for this sort of thing is very difficult to do, especially because there is no definitive mechanism or measurement for what causes the type of audible change I'm hearing. If we don't know what difference in the audio signal produces the difference in perceived sound, its really tough to figure how changes in softwar could produce those changes! So for now its all just guesswork and loose correlations. John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
JohnSwenson;476752 Wrote: > ...I upgraded the firmware and was floored to find it sounded quite a > bit better over the analog outs. I don't know why, the developers say > the didn't do anything to the audio code. They did say that an over > speedup of the code had been implemented, this might be the cause of the > better analog SQ... Can anybody comment on if this is plausible, or how a software update not touching audio code, could possibly affect the analog output quality? (Not doubting you John, as I've previously heard such things myself from the SB3 - just wondering how such an affect can even be remotely possible...) -- NewBuyer NewBuyer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7862 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
There is a new development on the sound quality front, a couple days ago I upgraded the firmware and was floored to find it sounded quite a bit better over the analog outs. I don't know why, the developers say the didn't do anything to the audio code. They did say that an over speedup of the code had been implemented, this might be the cause of the better analog SQ. I haven't had time to check out the S/PDIF yet to see if it had any change. BTW this did NOT take my main listening rig to hear the difference, I can clearly hear it on a $5 pair of headphones plugged directly into the phone jack on the touch! John S. -- JohnSwenson JohnSwenson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5974 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
IME the digital output definitely outperforms the SB3 - it sounds excellent. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker & Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
A well known member of this forum John Swenson did, see here : http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=59877&highlight=touch Very promising Chris -- krzys krzys's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2256 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Any audiophiles got a SB Touch to beta test?
I'm very interested in these 2 questions too ! -- volpone SB3 - Duet - Boom - Ipeng (Iphone) | Squeezecenter 7.3.3 | ReadyNas Pro (x86) volpone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16531 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=70167 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
