Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
I've a Transporter from new, bought it when they first came out. It's working fine, couple of small scratches on metal casing, and I'm not sure if I can find the remote - I control it from my network. Also have 2 x Boom and a Duet somewhere as well. Ready to sell 'em if anyone's interested.. Marinero1601's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=67480 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
drmatt wrote: > If I could be bothered I'd try it out.. happy with what I have though. > Like calibrating a TV, I can't see it ever being a bad thing, adding the > finishing touch. Just wish it was easier to get right in a hifi context. > A complete doddle in an AV context of course. > > > -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- Roger that! A/V is DSP all down the line, else it wouldn't work at all. I've resisted the temptation myself so far, simply because of all the extra amps + speaker cables which are hard to hide in an 11.2 configuration. lol And the 3D which both my 46" Bravia .TV & my Panasonic HDD/BD-R dual Freeview HD gizmo support has now gone out of fashion - what do you gain with surround sound when the image (4K or not!) is firmly planted in front of you? I CAN see the point with immersive VR video games - but at the same time, I predict an increase in domestic accidents - for God's sake ditch the glass coffee table, it could kill you if you fall through it whilst engrossed in a different universe... Dave :cool: P.S. Before you dismiss me as a total dinosaur I HAVE signed up to the Kickstarter campaign for the Yarra 3D sound-bar (+subwoofer) as championed by Dr Aix himself (aka Dr Mark Walthrop) - I'm down $299 as we speak, it's scheduled to ship in March 2018. If it's a scam they deserve my money for such a convincing effort! Quietly confident that I'll get it - obviously I'll let you all know if it actually works, lol... Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
If I could be bothered I'd try it out.. happy with what I have though. Like calibrating a TV, I can't see it ever being a bad thing though. Just wish it was easier to get right on a hifi context. Doddle in an AV context of course. -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- -- Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0 Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
drmatt wrote: > No, I do think that a well done room correction would always be a good > thing. Like human perception of white balance (or rather colour > constancy) though you always know what colour things are in a scene the > overall white balance is perceived as a mood rather than a colour shift. > Fix the white balance and you change the mood without changing the > perceived image itself.. > > > -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- Hi Doc! Yet again, I find myself chewing the fat with you, in a respectful way, of course. As a keen amateur photographer, I am well aware of the concept of white balance, which is why I always process the raw images from my Nikon DSLR in Adobe Lightroom before (sometimes!) exporting them as JPEGs to Photoshop for the stuff that Lightroom won't do. Nevertheless, still photographic images are intended to make an instant, almost subliminal assault upon your visual faculties, which is a totally different thing to using your music system on a regular basis to listen to continuously & constantly changing music programmes. So I stand by my previously stated opinion, whilst accepting that I cannot disprove your position any more than you can disprove mine... Dave :cool: Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
No, I do think that a well done room correction would always be a good thing. Like human perception of white balance (or rather colour constancy) though you always know what colour things are in a scene the overall white balance is perceived as a mood rather than a colour shift. Fix the white balance and you change the mood without changing the perceived image itself.. -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- -- Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0 Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
JohnB wrote: > I've dipped into this conversation from time to time and thought I would > comment on this. > > That characterization of Digital Room Correction (if that is what you > were referring to) is extremely misleading. Of course, it won't appeal > to everyone but it can make a real and very worthwhile difference. > > The aim has nothing at all to do with anechoic chambers or impressing > visitors - but to better represent the music in less than ideal rooms > with domestic constraints. But the how the correction filters are > generated is absolutely critical to the outcome and can make the > difference between something pretty bad and a result that is a great > enhancement and a pleasure to listen to. As a very narrow example, if > you take Acourate (a well regarded program used to generate correction > filters) it aims not to take into account room reflections by (as a > default) only using the first 15ms of the scanned sound in its > calculations. Some people find benefits in reducing this further to, > say, 8ms. No attempt to create an anechoic chamber effect there. The aim > is to improve the smoothness of the perceived frequency and phase > response in a wholly beneficial way and there are very real benefits, > especially in the bass and lower mid areas which can be notoriously and > frustratingly "lumpy". > > (I use the InguzDRC plugin with correction filters generated by > Acourate.) Hi John! The problem with our different takes on this issue is the difficulty in experimentally distinguishing between our opposed viewpoints. Your room correction will undoubtedly change the soundscape in your room. However you yourself concede that if it is not done correctly, it can make matters worse rather than better. OTOH, you believe that it can make your listening experience more enjoyable when done correctly. My retort is the obvious one that whilst you may hear a short-term improvement, over time your brain will simply adjust to its new listening environment (which will *-measure-* better using microphones & meters) but will ultimately end up sounding the same through your ears. If you can dream up an experimental way of testing between these different conjectures, then all I can say is that you have missed your true vocation as an experimental physicist. Otherwise, we shall have to (politely & respectfully, of course) agree to differ since neither case is provable. I do intend to install a couple of bass traps to reduce the massive modal resonance of my square concrete box of a listening room (Concrete floor + beam & concrete ceiling which is the floor for the tenant above) in order to partially eliminate the modal resonance between the floor & ceiling which are less than 8' apart, both for my own benefit & that of my long-suffering fellow inmates. :D I also intend to get my subwoofers up off the floor in an attempt to acoustically decouple them from the floor. I'm not opposed to DSP in principle - it is used to great effect in my pair of PV1 subwoofers (which have opposed 8" aluminium mica long-throw drivers in a sealed enclosure driven by a beefy 500W Class D amplifier each, a lot of this power is used to increase the LF extension to splendid effect. It's simply that having listened to my system from the same location for 8 years now, I appear to be oblivious to the various minor room resonances. When I listened to a "sweep test" on an audio test CD all I heard was a series of constant pitch tones of progressively decreasing frequency, *-all at exactly the same amplitude-*, at least for practical purposes, except for the lowest tone which sounded about twice as loud, corresponding I presume to the dreaded standing wave resonance between my solid floor & ceiling. Which I think illustrates my point: I am sure that my room would not register a flat acoustic if measured with test equipment. Dave :cool: Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
davidovada wrote: > Ciao, Antonio > Not sure if you've made your purchase. I have a used Transporter(with > knob) in black color(silver handles) for sale in Italia at correct > price. If you're interested just let me know. > > grazie - david Hi David, Thanks for the offer, but I'm sorry I already ordered mine. Antonio LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Golden Earring wrote: > So you can acoustically treat your listening space to your heart's > content, or use complex DSP software in an attempt to convert it into an > anechoic chamber, but the only effect will be to impress occasional > visitors who are not used to your room's acoustic. Really the only > sensible use of that stuff is in a recording studio so that the recorded > end product has no unusual sonic signature when compared to your other > programme material. OR to stop your neighbours banging on your walls > quite so often if they are getting a lot of low frequency resonance > after your room boundary has stopped all the HF & even MF stuff getting > through. :D > I've dipped into this conversation from time to time and thought I would comment on this. That characterization of Digital Room Correction (if that is what you were referring to) is extremely misleading. Of course, it won't appeal to everyone but it can make a real and very worthwhile difference. The aim has nothing at all to do with anechoic chambers or impressing visitors - but to better represent the music in less than ideal rooms with domestic constraints. But the how the correction filters are generated is absolutely critical to the outcome and can make the difference between something pretty bad and a result that is a great enhancement and a pleasure to listen to. As a very narrow example, if you take Acourate (a well regarded program used to generate correction filters) it aims not to take into account room reflections by (as a default) only using the first 15ms of the scanned sound in its calculations. Some people find benefits in reducing this further to, say, 8ms. No attempt to create an anechoic chamber effect there. The aim is to improve the smoothness of the perceived frequency and phase response in a wholly beneficial way and there are very real benefits, especially in the bass and lower mid areas which can be notoriously and frustratingly "lumpy". (I use the InguzDRC plugin with correction filters generated by Acourate.) Touch, Meridian G92, Meridian G55, PMC OB1i speakers, HP Proliant Microserver/Ubuntu, PC/Windows 7, iPad 4, iPeng, Squeezepad. JohnB's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31553 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
drmatt wrote: > In truth whatever you choose your ears will adapt to it and unless it's > chronically ill suited to your tastes it will be quite enjoyable. > > > -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- H Doc! We are in agreement about many things, & I endorse your statement that if you sit in the same place in your room your brain will quite quickly resolve the resonances of your room & reject the delayed reflections from the walls of your listening space which arrive at your ears later then the direct sound waves from your loudspeakers. I can even introduce an evolutionary conjecture (deliberately so-described because it would be fiendishly difficult to test!) to justify this position. Before we were forced to step out onto a savannah (created by global weather effects, but still very recently in evolutionary terms) our more distant ancestors would have lived their lives in a chaotic jungle environment, not unlike my cat who seems to prefer my natural untidiness & complains vociferous at my admittedly sporadic & generally demotivated efforts to reduce my clutter! The point being that survival in such an environment is critically dependent upon one's ability to distinguish direct from reflected sounds, the alternative being becoming some unpleasantly large & ferocious predator's lunch which is obviously a one-way ticket to oblivion... So you can acoustically treat your listening space to your heart's content, or use complex DSP software in an attempt to convert it into an anechoic chamber, but the only effect will be to impress occasional visitors who are not used to your room's acoustic. Really the only sensible use of that stuff is in a recording studio so that the recorded end product has no unusual sonic signature when compared to your other programme material. OR to stop your neighbours banging on your walls quite so often if they are getting a lot of low frequency resonance after your room boundary has stopped all the HF & even MF stuff getting through. :D To use a political analogy, as Machiavelli pointed out, it is actually best to choose your Prince at the outset & stick with him! Dave :cool: Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Ciao, Antonio Not sure if you've made your purchase. I have a used Transporter(with knob) in black color(silver handles) for sale in Italia at correct price. If you're interested just let me know. grazie - david davidovada's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52810 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Hi all! I've got a few things to say (surprisingly!!), but my life is on fire atm for reasons utterly beyond my control - my preferred approach to life these days runs along the "manyana, but without the same sense of urgency" lines. :D I'll get back on this when I get a moment, lol. Dave :cool: Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
drmatt wrote: > Hey, lots to talk about and learn, always. Me too, I'm not implying > otherwise! > > Yes, the driver plus its cabinet defines the resonance properties of the > transducer and that defines the observed impedance much more than the > crossover electronics does, I believe. If you have scope to test it, > replace the speaker drivers with an 8 ohm resistor and look at the > flatness of the impedance profile! I'm no expert, but you can't dismiss > the physical resonance of the speaker cone. > > But.. the 804s are much larger.. the 805s have a single combined > bass/mid driver while the 804s each have a pair of 6" woofers for bass > alone and a separate 6" FST midrange, both in separate compartments > within the body of the speaker. The bass section has a front firing bass > port, which does certainly make the speaker less badly behaved in the > corner of a room though. The 804 is the same diameter as the 805 though, > so the midrange cabinet is broadly similar, though in the 804 it doesn't > have to handle anything below 200hz.. > > I have found that standmount speakers are more "resonant" in the deep > bass to compensate for their lack of physical volume, which can produce > a pleasing simulation of bass but is likely less accurate. I've usually > found floorstanders actually have tighter but better extended bass > response, even if there's no more sheer dBs on offer. > > I've also found that b&w midrange drivers open up a lot when they don't > have to handle deep bass or if you bung up the bass port to provide a > little more damping. I believe that's the same advantage the 804 has > over the 805. You are no doubt getting the same effect by using > subwoofers! > > -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- Hi all, your discussion is bit too technical for me, but what I take notice from your excellent remarks is that the room size and characteristics have their importance, because showrooms are usually larger than my room and they can give a false impression at listening, so I shouldn't choose speakers too powerful. So sometimes the best is not the better (hum, is it correct english ?). On the other side, if I spend a lot of money (from my point of view, 2K is a lot of money) on these speakers, I wouldn't like to have to change them if I move to a larger house, or I move them to a larger room. Everything is a compromise, as usual. As for the amp, I don't think I will have a valve amp, they're too pricey. I would be very happy with something like the Rega Elex-R, which has very good reviews. Is it powerful enough ? Since I already have a DAC (the transporter), that will be all my hifi investment for now. Cheers Antonio LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Hi again. Yes, the driver plus its cabinet defines the resonance properties of the transducer and that defines the observed impedance much more than the crossover electronics does, I believe. If you have scope to test it, replace the speaker drivers with an 8 ohm resistor and look at the flatness of the impedance profile! The 804s are much larger.. the 805s have a single combined bass/mid driver while the 804s have a pair of 6" woofers for bass alone and a separate 6" FST midrange, both in separate compartments within the body of the speaker. The bass section has a front firing bass port, which does certainly make the speaker less badly behaved in the corner of a room though. The 804 is the same diameter as the 805 though, so the midrange cabinet is broadly similar, though in the 804 it doesn't have to handle anything below 200hz.. -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- -- Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0 Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
drmatt wrote: > Speaker drivers are incredibly reactive to input frequency and this is > what dominates the varying impedance of most speaker cabinets. Physics > dictates this. It's easy to push a cone that's oscillating at its > resonant frequency and very hard to push it significantly faster than > this. The crossover electronics should not be a major part of this > phenomenon. > > Not that any of this matters to the end user. > > One factor not thus far discussed is that in small rooms sitting fairly > close to speakers you can wind up in a near field monitor type scenario, > whereby the sound coming to your ears is predominantly direct from the > speakers rather than standing waves or reflected off other room > surfaces. Add in large amount of typical living room furniture and that > means you can quite successfully have large speakers in small rooms, as > long as you sit in the right place.. this probably explains why I get > away with a pair of 804s in a small room fed by a Naim amp. > > > > -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- Hi Doc! I must confess that I have been bamboozled into thinking that the mechanical impedance of the speaker cabinet was a separate phenomenon (& I thought, a mostly resistive effect causing dissipation of unusable power as heat energy in the voice coil that is mechanically prevented from moving by the inertia of the air within the speaker enclosure) from electrical impedance. Perhaps I have misunderstood this. Your 804's are really not that much bigger than my 805's, & are probably less affected by being placed close-ish to neighbouring walls than larger floor-standers, although there must be some bass reinforcement from this. Studio oriented near-field monitors are intended for close range listening for sure (primarily by ensuring that the drivers in them integrate well at a very short listening distance), but the mixing desk one is meant to be sitting at when using them (which they would be sitting right on top of) would not ideally itself be jammed up against a wall. I think that this is a separate issue from domestic listening room acoustics, with respect. I'm not meaning to be unnecessarily argumentative, just seeking clarity myself really. As long as you're getting a musical experience that suits you, that's fine really... Dave :cool: Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Speaker drivers are incredibly reactive to input frequency and this is what drives the varying impedance of most speaker cabinets. Physics dictates this. It's easy to push a cone that's oscillating at its resonant frequency and very hard to push it significantly faster than this. Not that any of this matters to the end user. One factor not thus far discussed is that in small rooms sitting fairly close to speakers you can wind up in a near field monitor type scenario, whereby the sound coming to your ears is predominantly direct from the speakers rather than standing waves or reflected off other room surfaces. Add in large amount of typical living room furniture and that means you can quite successfully have large speakers in small rooms, as long as you sit in the right place.. this probably explains why I get away with a pair of 804s in a small room fed by a Naim amp. -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- -- Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0 Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Antoniop wrote: > Hi Dave, > I've never heard of the Reynauds too, they 've an excellent reputation > but there are not many in the auditoriums. Focal are quite easy to find, > for the less expensive products. > > Choosing a pair of speakers will be a lng process for me, I'm not > easy to make up my mind ! > Thanks again for your help > Antonio Hi Antonio! I don't blame you in the slightest for wanting to take your time over speaker selection. Have you got the rest of your system in place? The kind of speakers that will be likely to sound best in your room are almost certainly 2-way designs (whether full-range floor-standers, or stand-mounts which will inevitably be slightly lacking in the bottom octave of the bass register although with compensating advantages which I hope that I have already sufficiently explained in my previous posts), & an incidental bonus because of this is that they are likely to present a relatively well behaved impedance load on your power amplifier because they usually have fairly simple passive crossovers. It is the capacitors & inductors in the crossover network which create the reactive portion of the loudspeakers impedance (the drivers themselves present a purely resistive load). The impedance of any speaker system will vary with frequency & it is often possible to find a published graph of impedance vs. frequency (either by the speaker manufacturer themselves or in a decently conducted review of them). No loudspeaker has a flat impedance curve, but there should be no pronounced sharp peaks or troughs since the effect of these is likely to become audible, at least with some programme material. Smaller wobbles & gentle rises or falls are much less likely to cause the kind of effect on a music programme that your brain will not quickly learn to compensate for (the science of psycho-acoustics is not an area in which I can profess any real technical expertise - suffice to say that it's a complex subject & one in which our understanding remains less than total). >From your power amplifier's viewpoint, as it attempts to deliver its power bandwidth (that's power vs frequency) linearly into the loudspeaker, it is the reactive element of impedance arising from the speaker's crossover network that is the part which *-might-* cause some problems for a lesser amplifier. But the truth is that most amplifiers currently available are actually pretty good designs (the cut-throat nature of the audio industry has seen to that) & certainly power amplifiers with solid-state (bipolar or field effect transistor) output stages should have no difficulty as long as the impedance doesn't fall too low - such amps can be switched on with no speakers connected at all, but will expire rapidly should you contrive to short circuit their output - so going below their recommended *-minimum-* impedance rating carries the risk of creating audible instability (although they are unlikely to actually blow up! :D ). Valve output stages are the opposite - they will survive a short circuit without any problem, but will start blowing their output valves quickly if they have no load at all. They also tend to require more careful speaker matching & may have different taps of an output transformer for speakers of various nominal impedances. Some people swear by valve power amplifiers, but they then seem to spend half their life subsequently "rolling2 tubes & switching speakers in a never-ending quest for nirvana: the MOSFET's in my Pathos amp are just fine by me. The practical matters arising from these issues: 1. it is*- -**-always-* a good idea to switch all your gear off (& then give the capacitors in the power supplies a couple of minutes to fully discharge) before adding or removing any cables; 2. if you are using a solid state amplifier it is worth putting insulating tape around any metal parts of the amplifier or speaker posts that are still exposed once the connections are made (to minimise the risk of an accidental short circuit) &, if you make up your own speaker cables (as I do from decent oxygen-free copper speaker wire) it is also a good idea to offset the cable lengths of the +ve & -ve wires at either end so that if either end of your cabling somehow becomes detached it is much less likely that the now exposed plugs or wires will come into contact with each other; & 3. if you are using a valve amplifier, rig up some form of cable clamping at either end to make damn sure that neither end of the speaker cable can come loose... You will obviously have to audition your speakers at a dealership with demonstration facilities. High-end dealers will usually offer to let you then have your choice of speaker for extended home trial on the basis that you can return them in exchange for a different set from their supported brands if you are not satisfied within that trial period. This is good dealership practice, but also great salesmanship because firstly they will expect to sell at full retail price & se
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
In truth whatever you choose your ears will adapt to it and unless it's chronically ill suited to your tastes it will be quite enjoyable. -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- -- Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0 Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Golden Earring wrote: > Hi Antonio! > > I do like the B&W 800 series, but both Focal & Sonus Faber make > excellent stand-mounts too. > > I must confess I've never heard of the Reynauds - are they utterly > esoteric? > > I stand by my personal experience that stand-mount speaker usually > produce the better sound stage in a small listening room: floor-standing > speakers tend to work best in larger spaces, & often need to be spaced > away from any adjacent walls to give their best sound, which again is > not really practical in a modest-sized room... > > I hope that you find some speakers that suit the kind of music you > prefer, & your own musical appreciation! > > Dave :cool: > > P.S. It is an irritation that the forum software does not let you know > you've exceeded its maximum number of words for a post until you think > that you've finished - it's happened to me a couple of times & it can be > difficult to prune your outpouring without losing the flow. Oh well, > very little IS perfect in this life! :D Hi Dave, I've never heard of the Reynauds too, they 've an excellent reputation but there are not many in the auditoriums. Focal are quite easy to find, for the less expensive products. Choosing a pair of speakers will be a lng process for me, I'm not easy to make up my mind ! Thanks again for your help Antonio LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
drmatt wrote: > Just to keep everyone guessing, I would personally recommend > floorstanding speakers for music and there's very little need for a > subwoofer.. I do have B&W in mind however.. > > > -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- Hi Matt, Thanks for this second advice. I'll try both anyway. LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Antoniop wrote: > Hi Dave, > My first intention was to buy a pair of floor-standing, just because I > thought it gives a better sound and I prefer the look of it, but then > with your advice I'll try some stand-mount speakers, preferably from > B&W, it seems to be your favourite brand in England, certainly for a > good reason, while here Focal is very popular and Jean-Marie Reynaud is > famous but also more elitist. Hi Antonio! I do like the B&W 800 series, but both Focal & Sonus Faber make excellent stand-mounts too. I must confess I've never heard of the Reynauds - are they utterly esoteric? I stand by my personal experience that stand-mount speaker usually produce the better sound stage in a small listening room: floor-standing speakers tend to work best in larger spaces, & often need to be spaced away from any adjacent walls to give their best sound, which again is not really practical in a modest-sized room... I hope that you find some speakers that suit the kind of music you prefer, & your own musical appreciation! Dave :cool: P.S. It is an irritation that the forum software does not let you know you've exceeded its maximum number of words for a post until you think that you've finished - it's happened to me a couple of times & it can be difficult to prune your outpouring without losing the flow. Oh well, very little IS perfect in this life! :D Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Just to keep everyone guessing, I would personally recommend floorstanding speakers for music and there's very little need for a subwoofer.. I do have B&W in mind however.. -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- -- Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0 Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Golden Earring wrote: > Hi all! > > I'm much relieved that no-one has taken issue with any of the points > that I have made about loudspeaker design, room acoustics & the art of > selecting the most appropriate type of speaker for your listening space, > which I must confess that I wrote seriously, but "off the top of my > head". > > I can only presume that either no-one has read this thread or that there > is broad agreement on the forum (which *-would-* be a first!) for what I > said... ;) > > Dave :cool: Hi Dave, Actually, I wrote a reply, but it was rejected because the quote was too long (lol) and I didn't notice. I thank you for the lesson about electro-acoustics, physics, hifi, electricity and much more ! I'll will not discuss with you about the points you mentioned, if I say I understood everything, I would be lying. I also thank you for your excellent and typically English humour. Most of the cultures have a weak sense of humour, especially regarding the understanding of the "second degré". Going back to your excellent post, I understand that your advise is to buy a pair of good stand-mount speakers with two subwoofers (second hand is wiser), put a thick rug on the floor, damp my piano, and maybe also change the excellent porto to a Jack Daniels. My first intention was to buy a pair of floor-standing, just because I thought it gives a better sound and I prefer the look of it, but then with your advice I'll try some stand-mount speakers, preferably from B&W, it seems to be your favourite brand in England, certainly for a good reason, while here Focal is very popular and Jean-Marie Reynaud is famous but also more elitist. And later I'll buy the subwoofers. I don't think my better half (nice expression) would be happy if I spend all the money for the holidays in the hifi this year. Regarding the Transporter, I decided to buy one, as I said in a previous post ! :) Antonio LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
RonM wrote: > Back to the start of this thread -- buying a TP would allow you to keep > the Touch and have it as a back-up; they're not making any more of > either of these. > > R. Hi RonM, I agree. Actually, I finally decided to buy one of these Transporter SE, because I always wanted to have one, so I was a bit frustrated. It's a very good DAC (from what I read), and it will also be a back-up to my touch (or my touch will be the back-up). The SE version is at a very good price, giving the fact it's new and it's quite the same as the one with the knob, which I don't really need. It will be enough to treat my frustration... :rolleyes: I recently also bought a new radio, to have a back-up to the one I already had. I'm only missing now the boom and the duet, but I don't really love them anyway. LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Antoniop wrote: > Yes, after posting, I saw the posts about the SE, clearly it would be a > better option, even if I like the big knob :). > I don't care about the color display and I'm not convinced about 24/96. > But keeping (well, I'll keep it anyway) the touch an put a bit more > money on the rest is not bad too. Interesting products these Nads, > thanks ! Back to the start of this thread -- buying a TP would allow you to keep the Touch and have it as a back-up; they're not making any more of either of these. R. LMS on a dedicated server (FitPC3) Transporter (Ethernet) - main listening, Onkyo receiver, Paradigm speakers Touch (WiFi) - home theater 5.1, Sony receiver, Energy speakers Boom 1 (WiFi) - work-space Boom 2 (WiFi) - various (deck, garage, etc.) Radio (WiFi) - home office Control - Squeeze Control (Android mobile), 2 Controllers (seldom used), Squeeze Remote (on Surface Pro 4) Touch x 1 - spare UE Radio x 1 - spare Boom x 1 - spare Controller x 1 - Spare Duet Receiver (backup) RonM's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17029 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Hi all! I'm much relieved that no-one has taken issue with any of the points that I have made about loudspeaker design, room acoustics & the art of selecting the most appropriate type of speaker for your listening space, which I must confess that I wrote seriously, but "off the top of my head". I can only presume that either no-one has read this thread or that there is broad agreement on the forum (which *-would-* be a first!) for what I said... ;) Dave :cool: Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Hi Antonio! I'm gratified to hear that you appreciate my (slightly droll!) English sense of humour & equally that you find my posts, which are based upon a lifetime's interest in music reproduction which started in my teens & has continued unabated up to my present rather advanced age of 62, helpful. I also note that you yourself have a clear sense of what you like, whether it be drinks or recorded musical offerings! Now turning to your actual question about loudspeakers! My B&W 805S stand-mounts are the baby brothers of the 800/801/802/803/804 range of floor-standing B&W designs (they actually use the 800D model in the famous Abbey Road Studio #3, which has been the source of many excellent classical & contemporary recordings over the years. They also use pure Class A amplifiers from the Canadian manufacturer Classe to drive them, which are of course fabulous bits of kit but come at an equally fabulous price, lol): all of these designs are based upon the extraordinary B&W Nautilus loudspeaker (do check this beast out on Google images if you haven't seen one - it is definitely a modern work of art in itself... ). I haven't had the chance to hear a pair of these, but I am assured that they sound as good as they look! They are a 4-way active design, & the most unusual shape initially obscures one's realisation that the loading of all 4 independently-amped drivers have a transmission-line loading. Incidentally, B&W's trademark "outboard" tweeters all use a transmission-line loading, hence the tapered shape of the pod. Because they only operate at HF, the transmission-line does not need to be very long to give an acceptable practical approximation to the theoretical infinite transmission-line required by speaker design theory. OTOH, the single LF driver in my speakers has a bass reflex loading, which comes with advantages & disadvantages over the sealed-box "infinite baffle" alternative. The up-side is that *-if-* the designer does his work well in terms of matching the reflex port length, shape & location to the electrical & physical characteristics of the driver, & to the shape & internal volume of the enclosure, the LF extension of the loudspeaker can be extended by in-phase resonance from the port - indeed, eventually ALL of the LF is supplied by the port whilst the driver itself is constrained by the mechanical impedance of the cabinet (this is completely separate & different from the electrical impedance load of the loudspeaker which the amplifier sees... ). Obviously, you can only take this so far with a relatively small stand-mount enclosure & so the LF response of the speaker eventually begins to roll off, & within the audible range of much music programme material which is why having a *-good-* subwoofer (or even better two, as previously explained) can improve the musicality of your system. The most significant down-side is that, no matter how carefully designed they are, you will get more LF non-linearity (distortion), although this is not at a acute range of human hearing. Also, when they do finally roll off, they go at 6dB/octave which is twice the rate as for a sealed box design. A 2-way speaker is simply one that has a single crossover frequency around which the programme material begins to be directed to one driver (or sometimes in the case of the LF range, a set of drivers all doing the same thing) or the other. The precise location of the drivers in any loudspeaker with respect to each other is absolutely critical to achieving good sound because the designer needs to avoid interfering phase effects arising from the physical separation of the drivers - because the crossover frequency is going to be smack in the middle of the most sensitive range of human hearing (unlike the reflex port loading discussed above which only comes into play near the lower end of our hearing capability at which we are less discerning by nature's design of our ears. So the best approach is to "keep things simple" & the stand-mount design which will usually only have 1 HF driver (tweeter) & 1 LF driver (woofer) follows this maxim: this is why good stand-mount designs often provide the most accurate sound-staging (stereo image), usually better than that achieved by larger floor-standing designs which usually have more than 2 drivers... And why they are well suited to smaller rooms! The crossover in a passive full-range 2- (or more) way speaker is exactly that: passive. IOW, it is driven by a single amplifier & has the job of separating the frequencies between the drivers without the assistance of any separately-powered circuitry containing semi-conductors (valves, transistors or integrated circuits): so it will consist of a combination of resistors, capacitors & inductors only. Again the best advice is "keep it as simple as possible, but no simpler" - it has to help to suppress unwanted phase effects arising from the physical separation of the HF & LF drivers, so the designer may not choose the very simplest de
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Golden Earring wrote: > Hi Antonio! > > I fully concur with Mynb's last 2 posts & would simply note that the > stand-mount style of loudspeaker which I have suggested for your room > tend to be simple 2-way designs, usually with equally simple passive > crossovers which present a relatively benign load for the amplifier. > > So go listen to loudspeakers, & allocate the majority of your budget to > them: any halfway competent modern amplifier design (i.e. NOT expensive) > should be able to drive them satisfactorily. > > Don't forget to damp out your piano, as recommended earlier, while > you're quaffing the Ricard Cinquante Et Un (SO much better than Pernod, > lol) & indulging your taste for contemporary music... > > Dave :cool: Hi Dave, By "2-way designs" do you mean something like yours, the B&W 805S ? with or without subwoofer ? At the moment, I have in this room a pair of little Audioengine A2, they're the speakers I take with me when I leave my home for some time, and a Audioengine S8 subwoofer that I added recently. I like very much the A2, for their nice sound for the size, but a bit disappointed by the S8, at too low volume I don't hear it, at too high volume it's boomy. I'm not sure that I like very much subwoofers actually. The Ricard 51 is a good drink for the aperitif, specially in summer, with some ice cubes, sitted at a Café Terrace or with friends at home. When I try to have some quiet time at home, I rather have a good rum from venezuela or an old Cognac ;) , But my origins are Portuguese (please don't mention the paella, it's spanish) so I should have a vintage porto, except that porto wine is not a drink for aperitif or for the evening, it's a dessert wine. Hum, not so simple. As for my taste in music, I think you're asking what it is, and certainly it has its importance for choosing the gears, with the time it has changed, it's true I liked very much contemporary music when Stevie Wonder, the Pink Floyd, Bob Marley, the Dire straits or David Bowie were contemporary, now I still love them but I don't usually like the contemporary music, too much synthesizers pretending they're real instruments. I prefer jazz: Piano, Guitar, Organ, classic or modern jazz, everything except the female vocal jazz (really too boring), some blues, and I don't dislike some modern artists like Dave Matthews (with Tim Reynolds, I really love), John Mayer and a few others... To continue with the clichés, I don't like Edith Piaf, but I like Amalia Rodrigues (it's a "fado", the typical portuguese music, singer). Thanks a lot, your posts are very funny ! (and instructive of course) Antoniop LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Hi Antonio! I fully concur with Mynb's last 2 posts & would simply note that the stand-mount style of loudspeaker which I have suggested for your room tend to be simple 2-way designs, usually with equally simple passive crossovers which present a relatively benign load for the amplifier. So go listen to loudspeakers, & allocate the majority of your budget to them: any halfway competent modern amplifier design (i.e. NOT expensive) should be able to drive them satisfactorily. Don't forget to damp out your piano, as recommended earlier, while you're quaffing the Ricard Cinquante Et Un (SO much better than Pernod, lol) & indulging your taste for contemporary music... Dave :cool: Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Oh and "within specs" quality amps usually behaves ok when driven close and slightly over their limits and still sounds "ok" not so well designed stuff can behave really bad . In the early 90's I saw magazine actually measuring amps with a real speakers , they built a very robust speaker not intended for listening but it had typical anomalies that real world speakers have like phase and impedance shifts reverse EMF and such things , nonlinear coils in the xover . The best amps pretty much behaved as their specifications even if those where the typical 8 ohm resistive load specs, they did not change much with real speaker as load. Lesser amps did not reach thier specs in these kind of tests . What I want to say is that the old sayings that measurements don't tell the whole story is kind of true but not in the way many audiophile's think . But rather if we had the rigth kind of measurements against a common standard they could tell us much more that they actually do . Having the spec wars of the 80's in fresh memory:) Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Well choose your speakers first . Todays amp's -driven within their spec's- rarely impose any audible signature at all unless designed that way ( tube amplifier with transformers ) . Speakers are usually designed so that an amp with very low output impendance and a flat frequency response gives the output the designer expects and designed for . ( There are exceptions as always ) So it comes down to speakers impedance demands ( complicated xover in multiway speaker ) sensitivity and room size . That sets how much power and stability you need then it's feature set build quality and compatibility with other things and even design if it's going to sit in fulll view in the music room . If you are frugal you get the cheapest amp that can still handle your speakers in your listening situation :) Anecdotaly I've has speakers from Canton and Snell that where quite happy with 50wpc and then Dynaudios that needed >200w Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Antoniop wrote: > Hi Dave ! > You seems to be an endless source of knowledge regarding hifi ! Very > interesting post indeed. > Sorry, I was posting an answer to iPhone, and I'm very slow, my english > flows too slowly. > My room is a little sitting room, about 20 m² (67 ft), rectangular, I'll > be approximatively at 10ft from each speaker, ceiling is at 9 ft heigh, > walls are solid but it's open on each side of the room without doors (at > right I have a kitchen and at left the living room and dining room). > Floor is parquet and ceiling is solid. The room has a few furniture: a > sofa (where I sit in front of the speakers), an upright piano (very nice > old Pleyel, I'm proud of it), a little table at the corner of the sofa > (for the drink of course) and a low dresser. > Thanks a lot for your help ! :) Hi Antonio! Thanks for the info, it's much easier to give specific advice based on your actual room rather than to try to generalise! Like everyone else on the forum (I guess, unless they listen out in their garden, lol) the highest main modal resonance in your room will be based on the floor to ceiling height, which is better than many people's at 9', but will still be a shorter distance than that between any parallel walls. The fact that your floor & ceiling are both solid makes matters worse. But don't despair yet! If you are in love with your (doubtless very pretty but also highly reflective parquet flooring, then I would suggest a nice thick rug or two - you don't have to cover the entire floor, any damping will improve the acoustic to some extent. OTOH, if you don't mind covering it up, a THICK wall-to-wall wool carpet on top of the thickest underlay you can get would be even better. The open sides to your room will improve its acoustic, since the sound will spill out into your kitchen on the one side, & your living & dining room on the other: the effect will be as if you were in a larger listening room. The conventional wisdom with a rectangular room is to position the speakers on one of the long walls, 6 - 8 feet apart (& certainly no more than 10', else you'll get a "hole" in the middle of your stereo image unless you really turn the wick up!): however from your description, I imagine that your walls with the door-less gaps are the long ones, & that it will therefore be more ergonomic to put the speakers across one of the shorter walls & sit to listen with your back to the other one. This is OK, since the gaps in the side walls will prevent the sound being unduly funnelled towards you. I would however suggest that decent stand-mount speakers will give a more musical effect than floor-standing speakers, because the former are less fussy about being located relatively close to the wall behind, or even to being fairly near the corner of the room (this will inevitably cause a LF boost to a degree though, the bass radiates pretty much 360 degrees around the speaker, it's the HF that is far more directional... ). If you miss the lowest octave, a sub-woofer (or better yet 2, wired up in stereo - not because you can hear an extreme LF stereo image: you can't, but because having more than 1 source of low bass in the room, especially doing different things, reduces room resonances) carefully adjusted to match the LF roll-off of the stand-mounts, will sort that out for you. The sub-woofer positioning is not critical, although it (or they) should be in front of you, not behind. If you don't have it/them close to your main speakers, you may find that they sound better with the phase inverted - just try both settings, it'll be obvious which is correct for the location. Then adjust the cross-over frequency to get a good sound without overlapping or missing low frequencies & last of all set the gain. -*Everyone*- sets it too high to start with, then you detect some "boominess" after a while & keep edging the gain down for a week or two until you finally get a smooth & natural effect. We're just after a subtle reinforcement of the lowest notes... ;) The strings of your beloved piano will try to "sing along" as well if you turn up the volume, which will be bad for a sharp image - I'd suggest a half-brick or heavy door-stop strategically placed on the soft pedal when you're not playing, lol. That's my two pennyworth, I hope it helps... Dave :cool: P.S. Enjoy your drink - I'm currently on the Jack Daniels with Zero Coke (in a separate glass, of course... ). Salut! Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Golden Earring wrote: > Hi Antonio! > > I absolutely agree with the previous answer to your question, i.e. it is > the transducers which have the final job of imparting the sound waves > into your listening room that are now the weakest (arguably the only > weak) link in the audio chain as far as modern music reproduction > equipment goes. Indeed, at least in theory, any earlier components > *-should-* work together without any significant problems, since the > voltage levels & impedances of both unbalanced (RCA phono) & balanced > (XLR) interconnections at the line level are now standardised & most > equipment adheres to these specifications. > > The problems with loudspeakers (or headphones for that matter) derive > from the physical construction of the drivers (cone stiffness, mass, > linearity when displaced from their static position & off-axis response) > & in the case of loudspeakers the choice of loading (infinite baffle, > reflex, transmission-line or even occasionally free-air or even > isobaric) combined with the quality of construction & precise internal > volume of the cabinet. There are other schools of thought (e.g. > Harbeth's deliberately flexible cabinets), but most designers now aim to > make their enclosures as rigid as possible. There is also the critical > choice between a stand-mount cabinet (often referred to as "bookshelf" > loudspeakers, although actually placing them on a crowded wall-shelf > will usually result in a poor sound compared to using rigid & adequately > damped speaker stands & having some free space around the enclosures... > ) or having larger floor-standing enclosures (which usually have more > drivers than stand-mounts). Finally, the crossover design & positioning > of the various drivers relative to each other are critical to achieving > a coherent musical performance. Active speakers may be preferable to > passive ones if you have deep pockets! Whilst the fidelity of modern > transducers has improved markedly compared to designs from say 40 years > ago with the current availability of lightweight rigid materials such as > carbon fibre, graphite or Kevlar for LF drivers & exotic ones like > beryllium or even diamond for HF drivers, it remains the case that > almost all of the non-linearity (aka distortion) of your system will > derive from the transducers - even the very best & astronomically > expensive ones are still not perfect! The specific impact of these > issues for you will depend in part upon the size, shape & even > construction materials of your listening room. > > So loudspeaker design still involves considerable compromise, & > different speakers will usually sound much more distinct from each other > than different amplifiers or earlier components in the audio chain. So > whilst there are some general guidelines that will point you in the > right direction in terms of selecting the right type of loudspeaker for > your room, ultimately the acid test is whether you are happy with the > musical reproduction that you achieve which is inevitably a subjective > matter. I do not believe that any published numerical specifications > pertaining to loudspeakers have any useful bearing on their sound > quality (this is not the case with amplifiers, for example, where > generally accepted measurements can give a reasonable basis for the > unit's suitability(. Arnyk recently send me a link for a 2017 research > paper by 3 eminent Danish academics who were seeking to quantify > loudspeaker performance. It was a tough read, but ultimately I did not > feel that they had actually made much headway! A particular problem is > that some loudspeakers may sound very initially impressive & it is over > the course of several months of regular listening that their sound > begins to grate upon you - the trial period typically offered by even > "top-dollar" dealers is usually NOT long enough for this effect to > manifest itself, which is another reason that I would serious recommend > buying "as new" s/hand loudspeakers, since it leaves you the option of > selling them on later *-without-* losing a significant amount of money > if you change your mind 6 months down the line... > > What is your listening room like (i.e. approximate shape, size, ceiling > height, solid or plasterboard walls, solid or suspended floor & > ceiling)? > > Dave :cool: Hi Dave ! You seems to be an endless source of knowledge regarding hifi ! Very interesting post indeed. Sorry, I was posting an answer to iPhone, and I'm very slow, my english flows too slowly. My room is a little sitting room, about 20 m² (67 ft), rectangular, I'll be approximatively at 10ft from each speaker, ceiling is at 9 ft heigh, walls are solid but it's open on each side of the room without doors (at right I have a kitchen and at left the living room and dining room). Floor is parquet and ceiling is solid. The room has a few furniture: a sofa (where I sit in front of the speakers), an upright piano (very nice old Pleyel,
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
iPhone wrote: > . > . > Hello Antonio, > > "Gear Fitting" as you call it, IE matching separates for one of four > reason (price, sound, better half demands, or a combination of the first > three) takes many paths. For most of us, price plays a huge part in this > process plus what sounds good to one's own ears (all ears are shaped > differently and some are more sensitive then others). I am of the option > that the majority of one's HiFi Dollars need to go toward quality > Speakers. I say this for two main reasons, firstly having the best > source device, pre-amp, and amplifier are all wasted if the output > devices, one's speakers, are crap! No matter how great one's front is, > it can't make up for speakers that are poor quality, will not accurately > reproduce what is sent to them, and last are of a poor design that > actually adds artifacts or colors what they are being presented. > Secondly, if the majority (half to two thirds) of one's HiFi budget is > spent on quality Speakers knowing that they are fairly expensive and > hence a major expense to upgrade or replace (don't know anybody that > upgraded to a "Better" pair of speakers that cost less then the pair > they replaced), one can buy good source and amplification knowing that > those will be the pieces upgraded in the future trying to caught up to > the upper most ability of the speakers originally purchased. I have been > making this journey for decades repeating the process as I moved up the > HiFi quality ladder and this HiFi building/upgrading model has severed > me well. I am almost there as soon as I have saved enough money to > purchase my ultimate Pre-Amplifier. > > Interconnects, power cords, and speaker cables are important, but good > quality that works properly in where to spend the money on these, not in > fancy covers or looks, nor on over priced hype. Properly setup, 4 coat > hangers can sound just as good as $5000 speaker cables! So again, don't > waste large sums of money on outrageous speaker cables and interconnects > when good quality engineered ones do the exact same job as $25,000 > cryogenic silver speaker cables! > . > . Hi iPhone, thank you for your post. I agree with all you're saying but I'm not sure you see what I mean, I was not clear. I don't mean choosing (very) good speakers for a good amp, I agree it's not right to buy an expensive amplifier or dac when speakers are poor. I still agree with you, they are the most important components. I will speak about my (limited) experience: last time (a long time ago) I bought my amp and speakers, I bought it at the same shop. In the auditorium I first choose the best speakers that I listened with my own music in my budget, then I tried the different amps and selected two of them, one luxman and a Denon, they were about the same price, but the Denon was a noticeably better. Then I tried the luxman and the denon with another pair of speakers, Cabasse speakers, a little pricier (Cabasse was very famous in France in the past). The Luxman was better than the Denon with the Cabasse, but Cabasse was very good with Classical music but poor with other styles of music, and I'm not very found of classical. According to the salesman, it's because Cabasse where more defined than the speakers I preferred, then they fitted better with the Luxman, that was less defined than the Denon (ie A high defined amp fits well with less defined speakers and vice-versa). So my question is: don't you think it's better to try to listen at least the amp and the speakers together, just to hear if they fit well ? or is it just an illusion I had. Of course, sound appreciation is very subjective, one can be influenced by the look of the gear (must be killing), flattering reviews, the price (the higher is the better), a friend who said that gear was fantastic, an advice on amazon from someone who was an expert, or the reputation of the brand, and realize some days later, with time, at home, that we just don't like the sound of it. That happened to me recently. A good thing that we have in France, by the way, is that when we buy on the internet we have 2 weeks to change our mind, we can send back the gear and get the money back, we'll pay only the transport. If you buy in a shop, you usually only have your tears to cry. I agree about the cords, I don't see the point paying 1000 euros for an electric cable, even if it's the best electric cable in the world, since all the other cables in the area are just average honest electric cables. LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/l
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Antoniop wrote: > Hi Dave, > I see that you're an expert regarding hifi and you're quite hard to > please, but what do you do about "gear fitting", I mean, I'm not an > expert myself but it seems to me that for example some speakers give a > better sound with some amplifiers than some others, regardless if the > amplifier is better or not, just because they fit better, or do you > think that the better gear together always give a better sound ? > Usually, I try to listen the new equipment I want to buy with the one > that I already have, or at least with equipments from the same brand, to > know what I'll have when back home. > That's not possible when you buy second hand. > I hope you understand what I mean (my english is a bit weak). > > Antonio Hi Antonio! I absolutely agree with the previous answer to your question, i.e. it is the transducers which have the final job of imparting the sound waves into your listening room that are now the weakest (arguably the only weak) link in the audio chain as far as modern music reproduction equipment goes. Indeed, at least in theory, any earlier components *-should-* work together without any significant problems, since the voltage levels & impedances of both unbalanced (RCA phono) & balanced (XLR) interconnections at the line level are now standardised & most equipment adheres to these specifications. The problems with loudspeakers (or headphones for that matter) derive from the physical construction of the drivers (cone stiffness, mass, linearity when displaced from their static position & off-axis response) & in the case of loudspeakers the choice of loading (infinite baffle, reflex, transmission-line or even occasionally free-air or even isobaric) combined with the quality of construction & precise internal volume of the cabinet. There are other schools of thought (e.g. Harbeth's deliberately flexible cabinets), but most designers now aim to make their enclosures as rigid as possible. There is also the critical choice between a stand-mount cabinet (often referred to as "bookshelf" loudspeakers, although actually placing them on a crowded wall-shelf will usually result in a poor sound compared to using rigid & adequately damped speaker stands & having some free space around the enclosures... ) or having larger floor-standing enclosures (which usually have more drivers than stand-mounts). Finally, the crossover design & positioning of the various drivers relative to each other are critical to achieving a coherent musical performance. Active speakers may be preferable to passive ones if you have deep pockets! Whilst the fidelity of modern transducers has improved markedly compared to designs from say 40 years ago with the current availability of lightweight rigid materials such as carbon fibre, graphite or Kevlar for LF drivers & exotic ones like beryllium or even diamond for HF drivers, it remains the case that almost all of the non-linearity (aka distortion) of your system will derive from the transducers - even the very best & astronomically expensive ones are still not perfect! The specific impact of these issues for you will depend in part upon the size, shape & even construction materials of your listening room. So loudspeaker design still involves considerable compromise, & different speakers will usually sound much more distinct from each other than different amplifiers or earlier components in the audio chain. So whilst there are some general guidelines that will point you in the right direction in terms of selecting the right type of loudspeaker for your room, ultimately the acid test is whether you are happy with the musical reproduction that you achieve which is inevitably a subjective matter. I do not believe that any published numerical specifications pertaining to loudspeakers have any useful bearing on their sound quality (this is not the case with amplifiers, for example, where generally accepted measurements can give a reasonable basis for the unit's suitability(. Arnyk recently send me a link for a 2017 research paper by 3 eminent Danish academics who were seeking to quantify loudspeaker performance. It was a tough read, but ultimately I did not feel that they had actually made much headway! A particular problem is that some loudspeakers may sound very initially impressive & it is over the course of several months of regular listening that their sound begins to grate upon you - the trial period typically offered by even "top-dollar" dealers is usually NOT long enough for this effect to manifest itself, which is another reason that I would serious recommend buying "as new" s/hand loudspeakers, since it leaves you the option of selling them on later *-without-* losing a significant amount of money if you change your mind 6 months down the line... What is your listening room like (i.e. approximate shape, size, ceiling height, solid or plasterboard walls, solid or suspended floor & ceiling)? Dave :cool: --
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Antoniop wrote: > Hi Dave, > I see that you're an expert regarding hifi and you're quite hard to > please, but what do you do about "gear fitting", I mean, I'm not an > expert myself but it seems to me that for example some speakers give a > better sound with some amplifiers than some others, regardless if the > amplifier is better or not, just because they fit better, or do you > think that the better gear together always give a better sound ? > Usually, I try to listen the new equipment I want to buy with the one > that I already have, or at least with equipments from the same brand, to > know what I'll have when back home. > That's not possible when you buy second hand. > I hope you understand what I mean (my english is a bit weak). > > Antonio . . Hello Antonio, "Gear Fitting" as you call it, IE matching separates for one of four reason (price, sound, better half demands, or a combination of the first three) takes many paths. For most of us, price plays a huge part in this process plus what sounds good to one's own ears (all ears are shaped differently and some are more sensitive then others). I am of the option that the majority of one's HiFi Dollars need to go toward quality Speakers. I say this for two main reasons, firstly having the best source device, pre-amp, and amplifier are all wasted if the output devices, one's speakers, are crap! No matter how great one's front is, it can't make up for speakers that are poor quality, will not accurately reproduce what is sent to them, and last are of a poor design that actually adds artifacts or colors what they are being presented. Secondly, if the majority (half to two thirds) of one's HiFi budget is spent on quality Speakers knowing that they are fairly expensive and hence a major expense to upgrade or replace (don't know anybody that upgraded to a "Better" pair of speakers that cost less then the pair they replaced), one can buy good source and amplification knowing that those will be the pieces upgraded in the future trying to caught up to the upper most ability of the speakers originally purchased. I have been making this journey for decades repeating the process as I moved up the HiFi quality ladder and this HiFi building/upgrading model has severed me well. I am almost there as soon as I have saved enough money to purchase my ultimate Pre-Amplifier. Interconnects, power cords, and speaker cables are important, but good quality that works properly in where to spend the money on these, not in fancy covers or looks, nor on over priced hype. Properly setup, 4 coat hangers can sound just as good as $5000 speaker cables! So again, don't waste large sums of money on outrageous speaker cables and interconnects when good quality engineered ones do the exact same job as $25,000 cryogenic silver speaker cables! . . *iPhone* Media Room: ModWright Platinum Signature Transporter, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, Ayre MX-R Mono's, VeraStarr 6.4SE 6-channel Amp, Vandersteen Speakers: Quatro Wood Mains, VCC-5 Reference Center, four VSM-1 Signatures, Video: Runco RS 900 CineWide AutoScope 2.35:1, Vandersteen V2W Subwoofer Living Room: Transporter, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1 Office: Touch with Vandersteen VSM-1s Kitchen: Touch in-wall mount w/ Thiel Powerpoint 1.2s Bedroom: Squeezebox BOOM Bathroom: Squeezebox Radio Around the House: SliMP3, SB1, SB2, SB3 Ford Thunderbird: SB Touch, USB drive Ford Expedition: SB Touch, USB drive iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Golden Earring wrote: > Hi Antoniop! > > I just thought it was helpful to set out the arguments on both sides. > > Some of my gear was new (or ex-demo, which amounts to the same thing > really, such gear has usually had very little use & its provenance is > known... ). This is usually either because I want something that hasn't > been around long enough to be easily obtained s/hand or simply because > it's so good that people don't want to sell it after they've bought it, > lol. My B&W 805S speakers fell into that category. However I did > approach a B&W dealer who I knew didn't have any in stock & negotiated a > 15% discount on the basis that I would pay cash, he would order them in > & I would collect the unopened boxes as soon as they arrived. As a > consequence a pair sold on eBay a couple of weeks ago for a full 80% of > the price I paid 8 years ago - & they were of a similar age to mine > because only about 6 months after I bought mine B&W fitted the diamond > tweeter used in their more expensive floor-standers, & curiously the > list price went up from £1500 (pretty good value) to around £4000 (not > so good, especially since the initial 805D's were not very good - > they're on to the 805D S3 by now... ). > > My Mytek Brooklyn DAC (ex-demo, acquired fro dealer in Scotland via an > actual eBay auction in which I was fortunate because the other 2 bidders > dropped out way below the price which I would have paid) is a recent > model with unique features - it incorporates a fully balanced Class A > headphone amplifier delivering up to 6W/channel (which I have used 7 can > confirm is good) & also an MC/MM analogue phono pre-amplifier (which I > haven't tried yet, but which should enable me to resurrect the Linn > LP12/Ittok/Koetsu Rosewood Signature set-up that has followed me around > since the 1980's, lol... ), as well as a very flexible DAC itself which > has a word clock out: this latter feature means that I can slave my > Transporter to the Mytek's clock (this is done by changing settings in > the Logitech Media Server software) & effectively eliminate the digital > jitter that tends to arise when a 2-box configuration is used, whether > it be a CD Transport/DAC combo or a Music Streamer/DAC combo. Exactly > the same engineering considerations are at play in either case. I have > posted extensively about this on other threads in this forum, but would > be happy to provide the links to the discussion of the issue by Sean > Adams himself & also to the technical engineering paper upon which he > justified his position... > > But as regards new vs s/hand, it's entirely up to you which route you > choose - it's your money, after all! > > Dave :cool: Hi Dave, I see that you're an expert regarding hifi and you're quite hard to please, but what do you do about "gear fitting", I mean, I'm not an expert myself but it seems to me that for example some speakers give a better sound with some amplifiers than some others, regardless if the amplifier is better or not, just because they fit better, or do you think that the better gear together always give a better sound ? Usually, I try to listen the new equipment I want to buy with the one that I already have, or at least with equipments from the same brand, to know what I'll have when back home. That's not possible when you buy second hand. I hope you understand what I mean (my english is a bit weak). Antonio LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Antoniop wrote: > Hi Dave! > That's very interesting, thank you for sharing your experience ! > I'll consider differently buying second hand or not! Hi Antoniop! I just thought it was helpful to set out the arguments on both sides. Some of my gear was new (or ex-demo, which amounts to the same thing really, such gear has usually had very little use & its provenance is known... ). This is usually either because I want something that hasn't been around long enough to be easily obtained s/hand or simply because it's so good that people don't want to sell it after they've bought it, lol. My B&W 805S speakers fell into that category. However I did approach a B&W dealer who I knew didn't have any in stock & negotiated a 15% discount on the basis that I would pay cash, he would order them in & I would collect the unopened boxes as soon as they arrived. As a consequence a pair sold on eBay a couple of weeks ago for a full 80% of the price I paid 8 years ago - & they were of a similar age to mine because only about 6 months after I bought mine B&W fitted the diamond tweeter used in their more expensive floor-standers, & curiously the list price went up from £1500 (pretty good value) to around £4000 (not so good, especially since the initial 805D's were not very good - they're on to the 805D S3 by now... ). My Mytek Brooklyn DAC (ex-demo, acquired fro dealer in Scotland via an actual eBay auction in which I was fortunate because the other 2 bidders dropped out way below the price which I would have paid) is a recent model with unique features - it incorporates a fully balanced Class A headphone amplifier delivering up to 6W/channel (which I have used 7 can confirm is good) & also an MC/MM analogue phono pre-amplifier (which I haven't tried yet, but which should enable me to resurrect the Linn LP12/Ittok/Koetsu Rosewood Signature set-up that has followed me around since the 1980's, lol... ), as well as a very flexible DAC itself which has a word clock out: this latter feature means that I can slave my Transporter to the Mytek's clock (this is done by changing settings in the Logitech Media Server software) & effectively eliminate the digital jitter that tends to arise when a 2-box configuration is used, whether it be a CD Transport/DAC combo or a Music Streamer/DAC combo. Exactly the same engineering considerations are at play in either case. I have posted extensively about this on other threads in this forum, but would be happy to provide the links to the discussion of the issue by Sean Adams himself & also to the technical engineering paper upon which he justified his position... But as regards new vs s/hand, it's entirely up to you which route you choose - it's your money, after all! Dave :cool: Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Golden Earring wrote: > Hi Antoniop! > > No, I don't think that you're snobbish. ;) > > As long as you look after your kit & keep it for ages, you will still > get good value when you consider the cost per diem... > > There are pro's & con's of buying s/hand. > > The initial outlay is certainly less, but there may be subtle faults > with the gear that you don't pick up at the brief audition before you > buy - I would certainly strongly advise against buying from someone who > has "already sold his other stuff" & is unable to offer an audition at > all! > > Also you will get no warranty against new faults (unless you buy from a > dealer, but their prices are usually higher & they'll only normally > offer a 3 or 6 month limited warranty on used gear). > > On the up-side, if you find that the new item doesn't gel well with your > existing kit, or gives you "listening fatigue" (which may not become > apparent for quite some time after you've bought it), you can sell it on > (with a clear conscience, since your buyer will have different stuff & > different ears, lol) for more or less what you paid for it. I appreciate > that good dealers offer extended sale or return trials, but these may > still not be long enough to become really confident that the item fits > your needs, & you certainly won't get any discount from them if they > offer this service... > > Dave :cool: Hi Dave! That's very interesting, thank you for sharing your experience ! LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Antoniop wrote: > Hi Dave, > you're excellent ! > Maybe you'll find me a bit snobbish, but I don't like much used thinks. > My father used to almost never buy something new, always used things: > (very) used cars, used clothes, used furniture... Not only a question of > money. I like to buy everything new, but I keep it until it dies ! > I know, I'm loosing opportunities to get very good things for a very > good price ! Hi Antoniop! No, I don't think that you're snobbish. ;) As long as you look after your kit & keep it for ages, you will still get good value when you consider the cost per diem... There are pro's & con's of buying s/hand. The initial outlay is certainly less, but there may be subtle faults with the gear that you don't pick up at the brief audition before you buy - I would certainly strongly advise against buying from someone who has "already sold his other stuff" & is unable to offer an audition at all! Also you will get no warranty against new faults (unless you buy from a dealer, but their prices are usually higher & they'll only normally offer a 3 or 6 month limited warranty on used gear). On the up-side, if you find that the new item doesn't gel well with your existing kit, or gives you "listening fatigue" (which may not become apparent for quite some time after you've bought it), you can sell it on (with a clear conscience, since your buyer will have different stuff & different ears, lol) for more or less what you paid for it. I appreciate that good dealers offer extended sale or return trials, but these may still not be long enough to become really confident that the item fits your needs, & you certainly won't get any discount from them if they offer this service... Dave :cool: Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Golden Earring wrote: > Hi Antoniop! > > Most of my gear is s/hand: realistically, as soon as you take a new bit > of kit out of the box, you've flushed half of the purchase price down > the toilet (with a few significant exceptions - the B&W 805S speakers I > was forced to buy new, simply because there weren't any s/hand items > available at the time, are still selling at 80% of the price I paid - > after INSISTING on a 15% discount. The salesman, who hadn't got any to > demo to me asked me slightly desperately if I wouldn't like to hear them > first - so I told him that my hearing was shot but that my significant > other liked the shape of them. He was then so far off his script that he > caved in & gave me the 15% off, lol... ). > > And the mean time between failures for solid-state devices is around > 100,000 hours! > > You can get an "as-new" Touch, complete with all original packaging, for > around £200 on eBay if you decide to go for that... > > Dave :cool: > > P.S. The infamous Ken Kessler himself began by deriding the "Endorphin" > name, then listened to the beast & declared it his new reference player > - it really *-does-* sound even better than its "sexiest CD player in > the universe" looks ;) Hi Dave, you're excellent ! Maybe you'll find me a bit snobbish, but I don't like much used thinks. My father used to almost never buy something new, always used things: (very) used cars, used clothes, used furniture... Not only a question of money. I like to buy everything new, but I keep it until it dies ! I know, I'm loosing opportunities to get very good things for a very good price ! LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Antoniop wrote: > Hi Dave, I suppose they're asking $1000 because it was the price when it > was still current product ! > Could be worse, there's a new touch at 800 for sale ! > Yes it's a bit too much. > BTW, nice piece of technology, this Pathos Acoustics Endorphin CD > Player. I love the name ! Hi Antoniop! Most of my gear is s/hand: realistically, as soon as you take a new bit of kit out of the box, you've flushed half of the purchase price down the toilet (with a few significant exceptions - the B&W 805S speakers I was forced to buy new, simply because there weren't any s/hand items available at the time, are still selling at 80% of the price I paid - after INSISTING on a 15% discount. The salesman, who hadn't got any to demo to me asked me slightly desperately if I wouldn't like to hear them first - so I told him that my hearing was shot but that my significant other liked the shape of them. He was then so far off his script that he caved in & gave me the 15% off, lol... ). And the mean time between failures for solid-state devices is around 100,000 hours! You can get an "as-new" Touch, complete with all original packaging, for around £200 on eBay if you decide to go for that... Dave :cool: P.S. The infamous Ken Kessler himself began by deriding the "Endorphin" name, then listened to the beast & declared it his new reference player - it really *-does-* sound even better than its "sexiest CD player in the universe" looks ;) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Golden Earring wrote: > > The eBay.com vendor asking $1000 for his unused model is shooting the > moon IMHO: it's simply NOT worth that much... > Hi Dave, I suppose they're asking $1000 because it was the price when it was still current product ! Could be worse, there's a new touch at 800 for sale ! Yes it's a bit too much. BTW, nice piece of technology, this Pathos Acoustics Endorphin CD Player. I love the name ! LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Antoniop wrote: > You're perfectly right : I like the look and knowing it's an old piece > of technology pleases me too. But it's not really a reasonable choice in > your opinion, moreover at 1000 $. I agree with you about the look of the > SE : it looks like a cheap piece of plastic, at least on the pictures. Hi Antoniop! I paid around £800 for my silver Slim Devices Transporter (with silver buttons. lol) back in 2009, when it was still a current product. BUT, I recently snared a newer all-black Logitech-branded one in perfect condition (& still made in the US!) on eBay for £450, although I did have to exercise a lot of patience because they don't show up often, although they're not as hard to come by as the Pathos Acoustics Endorphin CD Player I just made a 500 mile round trip to collect (the vendor doesn't have any music streaming system at all, & is inexplicably reverting to vinyl. Arnyk would NOT be impressed, lol... ) The eBay.com vendor asking $1000 for his unused model is shooting the moon IMHO: it's simply NOT worth that much... Dave :cool: Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Antoniop wrote: > Then, we're coming back to my point : Should I buy a transporter, that I > could use as the digital source and the DAC, or use a SBT as a digital > source with a recent external DAC, such as this one '*Rotel RDD-1580 *' > (https://www.whathifi.com/rotel/rdd-1580/review)not too pricey, with a > good amp, like the cambridge cxa60 or the 'Rega Brio' > (https://www.whathifi.com/rega/brio/review) ?Well exactly, buy the TP if you > just like its look or you want to use its analogue stages, but I wouldn't buy one just as a digital source. If you're just looking for a digital source you already have one.. -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- -- Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0 Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
cliveb wrote: > I am a long-time user of the Transporter, and am very happy with it. It > sounds fabulous. > > BUT: if it ever dies, I will not be looking to replace it. The TP is a > legacy product that still performs well, but there are cheaper > alternatives easily available these days. A Raspberry Pi running > Squeezelite feeding a decent external DAC will provide equally good > sound quality. > > The only reason I can think of why anyone would want to get a TP these > days would be if they happen to like its look. > > And regarding the "knob or no knob" question: the knob is a great big > white elephant and serves no purpose in day-to-day use. BUT: The > blanking plug on the TP SE looks like a cheap piece of plastic, and > frankly I think it spoils the look. (But bear in mind I've only seen > photos of the TP SE, never seen one in the flesh). So if you're going to > buy a TP for the aesthetics (and IMO there is no other reason to get > one), then you need one with the knob, otherwise the aesthetics are > ruined. You're perfectly right : I like the look and knowing it's an old piece of technology pleases me too. But it's not really a reasonable choice in your opinion, moreover at 1000 $. I agree with the look of the SE : it looks like a cheap piece of plastic, at least on the pictures. LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Antoniop wrote: > Then, we're coming back to my point : Should I buy a transporter, that I > could use as the digital source and the DAC, or use a SBT as a digital > source with a recent external DAC I am a long-time user of the Transporter, and am very happy with it. It sounds fabulous. BUT: if it ever dies, I will not be looking to replace it. The TP is a legacy product that still performs well, but there are cheaper alternatives easily available these days. A Raspberry Pi running Squeezelite feeding a decent external DAC will provide equally good sound quality. The only reason I can think of why anyone would want to get a TP these days would be if they happen to like its look. And regarding the "knob or no knob" question: the knob is a great big white elephant and serves no purpose in day-to-day use. BUT: The blanking plug on the TP SE looks like a cheap piece of plastic, and frankly I think it spoils the look. (But bear in mind I've only seen photos of the TP SE, never seen one in the flesh). So if you're going to buy a TP for the aesthetics (and IMO there is no other reason to get one), then you need one with the knob, otherwise the aesthetics are ruined. Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Mnyb wrote: > Another thougth active speakers ? Or active digital speakers ? Provided > one can find speakers that otherwise satisfy taste and acoustiscs . > Important caveat the xover should be digital or analog before the amps > showing the amp in the speaker box and still have a passive filter does > not make them active in my book. > > Removing passive filters firms up the impulse response and removes > distortion , there are tons of weird artefacts with passive filters . > And does a lot of other good things . I've recently acquired some Fostex active speakers which will connect to the Transporter's balanced XLR outputs off eBay seriously cheaply to provide my 2 daughters(& their husbands) with their 1st music systems. They really tick all the boxes, minimal cabling, significant adjustability (they'll me several times, no way to predict room size/acoustic properties) & cheap to use (Class D amplifiers in-built). That's 2 of my 4 Transporters spoken for (the 2 unused SE's I imported from CA): I'm left with an all-black Logitech original I got off eBay for £450, & the trusty s/hand Slim Devices branded one I bought s/hand 8 years ago which is still going like a train - it's silver, but there wasn't much going s/hand in 2009. The Fostex speakers (now discontinued after 2 years are a bit light at the bottom end (but they're tiny!), so I've also bought some of the current Fostex 5" sub-woofers (which run simultaneously off the Transporter's unbalanced RCA phono outputs) which are also tiny, but do a passably job of filling in the bottom end. Total system cost (including stands for monitors & sub-woofers - around £1500 each. I don't think you could get a better sound for the money - & all of this kit is unused... Dave :cool: Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
drmatt wrote: > > > For reference I could not hear any difference in audio quality using the > same setup fed digital data from a Chromecast audio, but that's obvious: > sound character is determined in the analogue domain. I prefer the SBT > as a digital source however. > -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- Then, we're coming back to my point : Should I buy a transporter, that I could use as the digital source and the DAC, or use a SBT as a digital source with a recent external DAC, such as this one '*Rotel RDD-1580 *' (https://www.whathifi.com/rotel/rdd-1580/review)not too pricey, with a good amp, like the cambridge cxa60 or the 'Rega Brio' (https://www.whathifi.com/rega/brio/review) ? LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Another thougth active speakers ? Or active digital speakers ? Provided one can find speakers that otherwise satisfy taste and acoustiscs . Important caveat the xover should be digital or analog before the amps showing the amp in the speaker box and still have a passive filter does not make them active in my book. Removing passive filters firms up the impulse response and removes distortion , there are tons of weird artefacts with passive filters . And does a lot of other good things . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Correct, never met a dlna playback device that is as satisfying to use as an LMS end point. Add the colour touchscreen and numerous android/iPhone apps and it's game over, frankly. Win for the squeezeboxes. As for sound quality, I'm extremely happy with my SBT, Mytek DAC and Supernait amp combo. (I stopped using the built-in DAC on the Supernait because the mytek sounds subtlely different, in a good way, to me.) I demoed the Cyrus amps but found them not to my tastes, and I've never really liked a Marantz amp long enough to put the batteries in the remote.. but they are all options which may work for you.. or may not! I demoed the NAD D7050 too. I think Arcam and Cambridge Audio may well also have digital amps, as do a few other brands. For reference I could not hear any difference in audio quality using the same setup fed digital data from a Chromecast audio, but that's obvious: sound character is determined in the analogue domain. I prefer the SBT as a digital source however. -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- -- Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0 Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
I think the black SE looks better without the knob. Fizbin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58734 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Antoniop wrote: > > Is anybody using one of the recent amplifiers with dlna capabilities ? Once you have used LMS, dlna is simply awful as a streaming approach. *Home:* VortexBox 4TB (2.4) > LMS 7.9.1 > Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio (all ethernet) *Cottage:* VBA 3TB (2.4) > LMS 7.9.1 > Touch > Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win8(64) > LMS 7.9.1 > Squeezelite *Spares:* Transporter, Touch(3), Radio(3), Boom, SB3, CONTROLLER *Controllers:* iPhone6 & iPadAir2 (iPeng & Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win10(64) laptop *Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp > FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
drmatt wrote: > What he said. ^^ The ripping part is a pain in the ass but once done > it's done. Exactly, I'm proud to rip myself my own CDs using the best accurate rip software. I already got a decent CD player, and don't intend to change it, Mnyb, thanks for the suggestion anyway :) drmatt wrote: > I have an offboard DAC for my SBT going to a stereo amplifier for music > playback, which also is fed front left/right signals from an AV amp for > TV/film duties. Best of both worlds. > > -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- Is it good enough ? aren't we in the audiophile section of the forum ? :rolleyes: What stereo amplifier do you have ? If you all have the touch, maybe I don't need the transporter after all. I had a look to the digital amps you mentioned DrMatt, they're not cheap and not very recent, although certainly excellent. Is anybody using one of the recent amplifiers with dlna capabilities ? LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
What he said. ^^ The ripping part is a pain in the ass but once done it's done. I have an offboard DAC for my SBT going to a stereo amplifier for music playback, which also is fed front left/right signals from an AV amp for TV/film duties. Best of both worlds. -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- -- Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0 Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Rip your CD's to 16/44.1 FLAC files and save the investment of a CD player . You can now listen to your CD's via LMS and your squeezebox touch . If your stereo also is in your TV room and you get a DAC with multiple digital inputs or an amp with multiple digital inputs just use your dvd or blueray for the occasional CD spin if you have not ripped them yet . And the CD player budget can go amp or speakers :) . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
drmatt wrote: > There's a few digital amps around not many. V1 Naim Supernait, DAC > v1/NAP100 power amp combo, Cyrus 6, 8 and up come with built in DAC > options, there's a Marantz digital amp, and probably a few others. Oddly > the genre does not seem to have caught on, unless in conjunction with AV > features. Though I doubt they will be in your options list. > -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- What do you use then, to have the best sound to listen to your favorite music from your LMS library ? I see a list of hardware, but I don't see how they fit together. LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
There's a few digital amps around not many. V1 Naim Supernait, DAC v1/NAP100 power amp combo, Cyrus 6, 8 and up come with built in DAC options, there's a Marantz digital amp, and probably a few others. Oddly the genre does not seem to have caught on, unless in conjunction with AV features. Though I doubt they will be in your options list. -Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk- -- Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0 Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
Apesbrain wrote: > If you really want a Transporter, at $499 it's not a bad deal. The knob > part was discontinued so that's why those versions sell for so much > more. If you primarily control your SB player via the remote, or via > PC/app, the knob is not necessary. In any case, it's not worth $500 > more! Transporter is a very fine machine even against today's options. > Just be aware that it does not have color display and it is limited to > 24/96 PCM should that matter to you. > > In your situation, I'd probably keep the Touch and play around with an > external DAC; either the one in your new amp or a separate box. The > Touch is a good player as is and maybe made better with a new DAC. I > run one of mine into the optical digital input of a NAD D 3020 and am > very happy with this solution. > > Check these out: > https://nadelectronics.com/product/c-368-hybrid-digital-dac-amplifier/ > https://nadelectronics.com/product/c-338-classic-digital-dac-amplifier/ Yes, after posting, I saw the posts about the SE, clearly it would be a better option, even if I like the big knob :). I don't care about the color display and I'm not convinced about 24/96. But keeping (well, I'll keep it anyway) the touch an put a bit more money on the rest is not bad too. Interesting products these Nads, thanks ! LMS 7.9.0 on Linux Mageia 5 and RPI 3 1 SB3, 2 radio, 1 touch Plugins : Trackstat, Smartmix, MusicIP, ... Antoniop's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=39292 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Buying a transporter these days
If you really want a Transporter, at $499 it's not a bad deal. The knob part was discontinued so that's why those versions sell for so much more. If you primarily control your SB player via the remote, or via PC/app, the knob is not necessary. In any case, it's not worth $500 more! Transporter is a very fine machine even against today's options. Just be aware that it does not have color display and it is limited to 24/96 PCM should that matter to you. In your situation, I'd probably keep the Touch and play around with an external DAC; either the one in your new amp or a separate box. The Touch is a good player as is and maybe made better with a new DAC. I run one of mine into the optical digital input of a NAD D 3020 and am very happy with this solution. Check this out: https://nadelectronics.com/product/c-368-hybrid-digital-dac-amplifier/ Apesbrain's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=738 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107946 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
