Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
doctor_big wrote: > So what did you decide, Philippe? I'm sure that this thread has been an > invaluable resource. > > Jason Not fully decided yet, but I received a lot of good advice (although the thread got derailed a bit). I will certainly start with used equipment, as recommended. LMS 7.7.2 - 5 radio, 3 Boom, 4 Duet, 1 Touch, 1 SB2. Sonos 2xPLAY:1, PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBMC, Foobar2000, XBoxOne (sort of) philippe_44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
philippe_44 wrote: > In the audiophile forum of LMS, where I hope people are usually > reasonnable, what would be your advice for a good pair of speakers and a > tube amplifier (I've always wanted to try one). Nothing extra fancy, but > a "reasonnable" budget. Please no fights here, my question is candide, > no hidden intention to create another flame war. > > Thank you So what did you decide, Philippe? I'm sure that this thread has been an invaluable resource. Jason doctor_big's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15196 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Mnyb wrote: > +1000 > > I think thats it , the hobby has gotten so weird that it scares away > people . Think about some very music interested person goes to a hifi > store then starts to be feed all the BS about magical cables and then > see the price tags , they probably back out slowly and then starts > running when outside of the door . > This leaves a steadilly shrinking group of hardcore placebophiles .. But > the die away thats usually the solution . If more rational young > individuals can be interested they slowly take over . If we are lucky > that new demographic will reach a turning point when it's more money in > cater for a more rational pow , Then advertisers magazines etc have to > cater to that to make thier money . It will still be biased by > advertising money of-course but with less fairy dust and unicorns . Yup. Interesting example because a couple months ago when I visited a doctor friend near Toronto, he told me how he just started to buy LPs after being given an old TT and started looking at the magazines and website. He certainly did not seem impressed by the views expressed... > > I'm not overly confident in IQ test, they only measure your ability to > perform the tests if . I'm not convinced that they correlate to strongly > to actual intelligence even the idea that it can be understood as one > number is a simplification . The fact that it's very hard to isolate > cultural bias and education from "base potential" says a lot people > perform better after education than before and more than we think are > learned skills . It's almost impossible to come up with test that not > use ome some education for example they are written in a language or you > have to talk to someone in a language that itselfs shapes the questions > . Pictograms ? not really the concept of drawing and art has to be > learned . > Heck some nature people don't even understands 3D perspective on > drawings they never familiarised them self with the concept . Some > tribes has almost no maths, but we would not survive 5 minutes in the > rainforest of Borneo for example . True, the concept of IQ testing is very much tied in to the tests and customizations across cultures... Lots of issues with generalizing everything down to a single number. Even just separating into "verbal" vs. "performance" IQ helps provide a better picture. Not to speak of further fine-tuning in terms of visuospatial ability, verbal fluency, abstract reasoning, processing speed, etc. subscales... But I digress. I guess it's interesting and important to just look at the big picture of cognitive ability and recognize that for humanity as a whole, there will be some percentage which will hang on to irrational beliefs whether it be cultural, "genetic" to some extent, or educational exposure / intellectual ability. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Archimago wrote: > > We just want enough of a presence that newcomers to hi-fi audio can be > at home with folks who don't embarrass their rational sensibilities and > allow their interest to grow. +1000 I think thats it , the hobby has gotten so weird that it scares away people . Think about some very music interested person goes to a hifi store then starts to be feed all the BS about magical cables and then see the price tags , they probably back out slowly and then starts running when outside of the door . This leaves a steadilly shrinking group of hardcore placebophiles .. But the die away thats usually the solution . If more rational young individuals can be interested they slowly take over . If we are lucky that new demographic will reach a turning point when it's more money in cater for a more rational pow , Then advertisers magazines etc have to cater to that to make thier money . It will still be biased by advertising money of-course but with less fairy dust and unicorns . I'm not overly confident in IQ test, they only measure your ability to perform the tests if . I'm not convinced that they correlate to strongly to actual intelligence even the idea that it can be understood as one number is a simplification . The fact that it's very hard to isolate cultural bias and education from "base potential" says a lot people perform better after education than before and more than we think are learned skills . It's almost impossible to come up with test that not use ome some education for example they are written in a language or you have to talk to someone in a language that itselfs shapes the questions . Pictograms ? not really the concept of drawing and art has to be learned . Heck some nature people don't even understands 3D perspective on drawings they never familiarised them self with the concept . Some tribes has almost no maths, but we would not survive 5 minutes in the rainforest of Borneo for example . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
cliveb wrote: > OK, we're going a bit off-topic here. > > I wasn't sure exactly what you were saying. (I thought perhaps you meant > that only 10% of creationists believed in the young Earth, and assuming > that creationists are themselves a small minority, things aren't too > bad) > > So I skim-read the linked article to discover that 10% of *ALL* > Americans believe in a young Earth!!! > Almost as worrying is that only 12% believe in non-theistic evolution. > WTF is going on in the American educational system? > Presumably these people are allowed to vote? Yeah, off topic a bit but I believe worth thinking about in terms of practically how -far -we can expect rationality in a society. Remember that there are tons of factors involved. For one remember that in this world ~50% of everyone has IQ < 100. This itself doesn't mean they're irrational but it does suggest limited higher cognitive capacity, certainly high IQ also does not protect one from magical thinking, but I think it does at least correlate to the potential for higher level education and exposure to figuring out for themselves what and how to think. Considering that 68% of everyone is within the median 2 standard deviations, that leaves 16% of everyone in this world with IQ < 85 (and of course 16% smart folks > 115). Then there are cultural/religious beliefs. We might be concerned about 10% young-Earth creationism in N. America, but consider the kinds of non-sense believed in other parts of the world! I can say that in my travels to Asia, this isn't any better in the kinds of crazy health fads and ridiculous claims; terrifying in places like China where religion for the most part isn't the predominant factor. Finally, remember that the mind as a creative entity is bound to "dream". Full on psychotic illnesses are easily 1% of the population. Many more percent with "subclinical" variants of people prone to magical thinking. There might even be evolutionary benefits to having these genes in society that "think outside the box" promoting creativity. I guess the bottom line for me is that people will always have unusual ideas about things. And something like a 10% "hard-core" group of committed "literal" Creationists is probably in line with our nature as a species and not necessarily statistically frightening. Most religious folks I know do not fall into that "literal" category at all. And none of the ones I've ever spoken about audiophilia seem to care if $1000 cables sound any better :rolleyes:... Of course the hope is that in time we will be able to make headway into more rational modes of thinking as a society. Audiophilia is just a speck-sized battle in the overall debate. One I think that can be won in time with education... We just want enough of a presence that newcomers to hi-fi audio can be at home with folks who don't embarrass their sensibilities and allow their interest to grow. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
bonze wrote: > I thought all audiophiles loved jazz and the more obscure the better, > preferably on the original vinyl. Well I am and have been a jazz fan for over 40 years and I do have plenty of jazz on vinyl however most of the jazz on vinyl that I own is not original vinyl since by the time I started buying it in the 1970s most of it was either reissue or remastered or repackaged. Once CDs and downloads came along I left all that behind. And while I own my fair share of jazz vocals I much prefer instrumental jazz. I also do not go for the make believe jazz that audiophiles seem to enjoy and would rather listen to Duke Ellington, Count Basie or Louie Armstrong in poorly recorded mono than well recorded "fake" jazz. The funny thing is that there plenty of very nicely recorded jazz available that is completely under the audiophile radar. For example "Country Cooking" by Chris McGregor's Brotherhood of Breath is one of the most dynamic and best recorded big band jazz recording you will ever hear. Thankfully this treasure never made it onto to one of HP's "Super Disc" lists, aka recordings to be avoided at all costs. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
cliveb wrote: > > So I skim-read the linked article to discover that 10% of *ALL* > Americans believe in a young Earth!!! > 10% ain't bad given how many think that the race problem was solved by the Civil War. > > Almost as worrying is that only 12% believe in non-theistic evolution. > Being worried about that seems to be akin to expecting that we have a very high percentage of atheists. > > WTF is going on in the American educational system? > You haven't noticed that people tend to hear what they want to hear? > > Presumably these people are allowed to vote? I suspect that there are far more problematical issues than these OT issues. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Archimago wrote: > Here's an 'interesting article about the importance of how the question > is framed' > (http://ncse.com/blog/2013/11/just-how-many-young-earth-creationists-are-there-us-0015164). > According to that article, the number of truly "committed" literal > "young-earth creationists" as in the earth being <10,000 years is about > 10%. OK, we're going a bit off-topic here. I wasn't sure exactly what you were saying. (I thought perhaps you meant that only 10% of creationists believed in the young Earth, and assuming that creationists are themselves a small minority, things aren't too bad) So I skim-read the linked article to discover that 10% of *ALL* Americans believe in a young Earth!!! Almost as worrying is that only 12% believe in non-theistic evolution. WTF is going on in the American educational system? Presumably these people are allowed to vote? Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Archimago wrote: > ]interesting article about the importance of how the question is framed. > According to that article, the number of truly "committed" literal > "young-earth creationists" as in the earth being <10,000 years is about > 10%. > > "Organic" foods of course is an unfortunate misnomer. :( > My pow is that any kind of believe of original designer or creator is 90% of the woo woo here .Things like the earth being <1 years just falls naturally from it . With such a big reality disconnect you don't really believe that things follow natural laws but that "other things" can happen . If you believe that deities exist that can exist outside natural law , nothing is really stopping you from going down the drain to any silly cult as "anything can happen" . Never the less 10% is scary enough , sadly they sometimes weild political power or run bussines Archimago wrote: > Partly correct... 2 types of preferences: > > We all love -female vocal- jazzy -standards- (like Krall, Barber, > Stanley, Pidgeon, Gardot, etc...). Yes, we also all love original vinyl > from the 1960's, rarely played, preferably MONO. :) Oh yes ;) add some reference recordings or other direct cut disc with unknown orchestras. And a bunch of stockfish CD's with cover band musicians . Should we not have hirez or DSD remasters of old 70's rock we must have 20 versions of Dark side of the moon . Joking aside I've have a friend thats an audiophile that listens to a lot of hip hop trough his Martin Logan electrostats . And yes some classical music entusiast have gravitated to audiophiledom because well recorded acoustical music benefit's greatly . Some Electronica also sounds amazing on a good hifi ,but then there really is no good natural reference in the mix at unless someone sings etc . But well recorded music is a factor and it's true that some audiophiles puts the cart before the horse and actually prioritise how it sounds before what music it is or who is the artist !? hence all the lame copycat play by numbers music released by audiophile labels . I do have some of the mentioned jazzy vocalists I do prefer Madeleine Peyroux (some of her stuff is really good ) but it's close shave to elevator music in this genre . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
bonze wrote: > I thought all audiophiles loved jazz and the more obscure the better, > preferably on the original vinyl. Partly correct... We all love -female vocal- jazzy -standards- (like Krall, Barber, Stanley, Pidgeon, Gardot, etc...). Yes, we all love original vinyl from the 1960's, rarely played, preferably MONO. :) Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Julf wrote: > Not really. A lot of Ferrari owners a) think Ferraris are actually > better than other cars, and b) think Ferrari is a car company (as > opposed to a brand). > I shall have to go for lunch with the Ferrari guy at work and see how delusional he is. I have a feeling though that he's nowhere as crazy as the audiophile guy I have lunch with on occasion. :eek: > > Really? Look at the number of people in the US who believe in > creationism. Or "organic" food (when was the last time you ate inorganic > food?). > Sure, there's more than a little irrationality out there! However, even the creationists I think vary quite significant in how extreme they are... Here's an 'interesting article about the importance of how the question is framed' (http://ncse.com/blog/2013/11/just-how-many-young-earth-creationists-are-there-us-0015164). According to that article, the number of truly "committed" literal "young-earth creationists" as in the earth being <10,000 years is about 10%. "Organic" foods of course is an unfortunate misnomer. :( > > I think the term "audiophile" is too soiled by now. Probably "music > lover" is closer to what you describe. I agree with Ralph. There are many "music lovers" out there... The "committed" (or commitable!) ones with a ton of CD/LP/SACD/etc. usually organized alphabetically spanning walls I would call "software audiophiles" where as the lovers of gear I would call "hardware audiophiles". I do like the "-phile" derivation in the word to signify the -love -of the hobby; something special about that characterological/emotional designation. Would be a shame to lose that quality! Then again, maybe it's impossible to expect that every audiophile could be rational exactly because -love is irrational-... :confused: Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
ralphpnj wrote: > In reality neither the term "audiophile" nor the term "music lover" > works since there are lots of audiophiles who know very little about > music (just go to any of the various high end audio shows and suffer > through the demo music that the average audiophile listens to) and lots > of music lovers who know very little about audio or care about getting > good sound. I thought all audiophiles loved jazz and the more obscure the better, preferably on the original vinyl. LMS Version: 7.9 TranquilPC T2-WHS-A3 - WHS 2011 2x Touch, 3x SB3 bonze's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6150 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Julf wrote: > I think the term "audiophile" is too soiled by now. Probably "music > lover" is closer to what you describe. In reality neither the term "audiophile" nor the term "music lover" works since there are lots of audiophiles who know very little about music (just go to any of the various high end audio shows and suffer through the demo music that the average audiophile listens to) and lots of music lovers who know very little about audio or care about getting good sound. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Archimago wrote: > Well. Nothing wrong with Ferraris! But when was the last time a Ferrari > afficianado claims better MPG than a Honda Civic :confused:? At least > they concede to the objective facts and can be proud of why they love > their car... Not really. A lot of Ferrari owners a) think Ferraris are actually better than other cars, and b) think Ferrari is a car company (as opposed to a brand). > Most reasonable people already know that homeopathy / conspiracies / > superstitions / horoscopes are bunk. Really? Look at the number of people in the US who believe in creationism. Or "organic" food (when was the last time you ate inorganic food?). > Hence the idea of the "objectivist audiophile" is not an oxymoron as I > believe many of us here personify... To love great sound. To be > insightful enough to admit that maybe something I own costs way more $$$ > than is needed because I WANT IT is just fine without claims of "golden > ears" or "price:sound quality" correlation. I think the term "audiophile" is too soiled by now. Probably "music lover" is closer to what you describe. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Mnyb wrote: > Horoscopes is so silly , what about newer objects that was not > discovered in the antique ;) have any one ever had the positions of > vesta Pluto Charon or Kerberos in their reading . Not to mention the > probably billions of undiscovered Kuiper Belt Objects out there and the > swarm of near earth asteroids and no one seems to care that due to > calactic rotation the zodiac has moved so you really not born in your > "sign" . > That proves the piont astrology is pure nonsense , but still no rational > argument ever will sway a true believer in the art . But you see Mnyb, those objects like Pluto are way to far away for any consequence here on earth! Clearly, it's the near visible celestial bodies and their gravitational and time domain influences that matters. Likewise, though far away, the -energies -emitted by stars can affect our present and future existence because of those cosmic waves. Millions agree with me so it clearly has merit. Likewise your local psychic and astrologer can easily back this up with copious charts, graphs, and literature on these well-known phenomena. :rolleyes: Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Archimago wrote: > Hence the idea of the "objectivist audiophile" is not an oxymoron as I > believe many of us here personify... To love great sound. To be > insightful enough to admit that maybe something I own costs way more $$$ > than is needed because I WANT IT is just fine without claims of "golden > ears" or "price:sound quality" correlation. Bravo! Once again Archimago you have written a short and clearly stated paragraph that can easily serve as a mission statement for the 21st century audiophile (my own term for "objectivist audiophile"). Just add "and we don't need no glossy magazines!" and we're done. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Julf wrote: > We all know that people buy Ferraris for the reliability, great fuel > economy and ample luggage space. :) Well. Nothing wrong with Ferraris! But when was the last time a Ferrari afficianado claims better MPG than a Honda Civic :confused:? At least they concede to the objective facts and can be proud of why they love their car... > > It is worth the fight, but I am afraid "objectivist audiophile" will be > the dominant viewpoint about the same time as we get rid of homeopathy, > conspiracy theories, superstition and horoscopes... Most reasonable people already know that homeopathy / conspiracies / superstitions / horoscopes are bunk. Just like already most would not believe that $1000 cables are needed. -Rationalism would destroy those belief systems...- Not so with being an audiophile I think! We can be rational and put our energies into the things that matter, and help fellow hobbyists to look at what matters and what doesn't. I don't think irrational beliefs define the term "audiophile", rather it has been misappropriated by the voodoo crowd. The love of fantastic performing devices, good looks, and pride of ownership is fine IMO. Hence the idea of the "objectivist audiophile" is not an oxymoron as I believe many of us here personify... To love great sound. To be insightful enough to admit that maybe something I own costs way more $$$ than is needed because I WANT IT is just fine without claims of "golden ears" or "price:sound quality" correlation. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Julf wrote: > We all know that people buy Ferraris for the reliability, great fuel > economy and ample luggage space. :) > > > > It is worth the fight, but I am afraid "objectivist audiophile" will be > the dominant viewpoint about the same time as we get rid of homeopathy, > conspiracy theories, superstition and horoscopes... Horoscopes is so silly , what about newer objects that was not discovered in the antique ;) have any one ever had the positions of vesta Pluto Charon or Kerberos in their reading . Not to mention the probably billions of undiscovered Kuiper Belt Objects out there and the swarm of near earth asteroids and no one seems to care that due to calactic rotation the zodiac has moved so you really not born in your "sign" . That proves the piont astrology is pure nonsense , but still no rational argument ever will sway a true believer in the art . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Archimago wrote: > That's a good point Arny. Because the idea of valuing audio equipment as > an "investment" bestows upon them a non-utilitarian mystique. The > problem is that many refuse to acknowledge the main reasons why this > stuff is expensive - they look good, impresses friends and family, makes > a guy (usually) feel good that he has "reached the pinnacle" of > quality... All these are of course characteristics of luxury goods. None > of those qualities necessary imply that it -sounds any good-. We all know that people buy Ferraris for the reliability, great fuel economy and ample luggage space. :) > As much as we might be the "underdogs" in this battle among > self-professed "audiophiles" at this time, I do think it's still worth > "the fight"... I think in time, the "objectivist audiophile" will again > be the dominant viewpoint. It is worth the fight, but I am afraid "objectivist audiophile" will be the dominant viewpoint about the same time as we get rid of homeopathy, conspiracy theories, superstition and horoscopes... "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
arnyk wrote: > I sense a big confusion about the purpose of having an audio system. > > Some appear to judge the value of an audio system as a pure financial > play. For them sound quality need not mean anything at all, it seems. > > Others judge the value of an audio system based on its ability to > provide enjoyment while it supports the big show, which is the sound of > music and dialog. > ... > That's a good point Arny. Because the idea of valuing audio equipment as an "investment" bestows upon them a non-utilitarian mystique. The problem is that many refuse to acknowledge the main reasons why this stuff is expensive - they look good, impresses friends and family, makes a guy (usually) feel good that he has "reached the pinnacle" of quality... All these are of course characteristics of luxury goods. None of those qualities necessary imply that it -sounds any good-. -But the audiophile must defend against these other "values" and above all must insist sound quality is number one! -Because sound quality was what he started on the road with and I suspect the more introverted audiophile never wants to look pompous admitting that he indulges purely in luxury goods... Nor would manufacturers ever want to promote such an image; it always must sound better because it's more expensive! Therefore objective means of "calling a spade a spade" by demonstrating the physical qualities and accuracy goes against this psychological structure. Defenses must be mounted whether it be claims of "measurements cannot capture everything" to those solipsistic beliefs that it's "all subjective" and nobody can know anything other than in the ears of the beholder... As much as we might be the "underdogs" in this battle among self-professed "audiophiles" at this time, I do think it's still worth "the fight"... I think in time, the "objectivist audiophile" will again be the dominant viewpoint. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
doctor_big wrote: > I simply like the tube sound. > > Ok, so there's a metric shit-ton of high tech, better-than-you-can-hear > stuff in an avr, and a tube amp is point-to-point soldered garbage. > > In 10 years the tube amp will be worth close to its original value, > while the avr will be worth pennies on the dollar. > I sense a big confusion about the purpose of having an audio system. Some appear to judge the value of an audio system as a pure financial play. For them sound quality need not mean anything at all, it seems. Others judge the value of an audio system based on its ability to provide enjoyment while it supports the big show, which is the sound of music and dialog. > > Isn't that what we were talking about? > Sorry that you apparently can't enjoy audio gear simply because it sounds good. If the resale value of my AVR dropped to zero right after I bought it, I wouldn't have cared because it still worked perfectly for at least two years after than, providing me with the listening pleasure that I expected. Furthermore, you seem to have declined to respond to the obvious flaws in your financial analysis. Everybody knows that in the short haul it is fairly easy to collect data that proves just about anything. You obviously cherry-picked your time period to obfuscate the fact that over the long haul, your advice is disastrous on many grounds including the ones already pointed out by several. Beyond the folly indicated by the real financial numbers, you seem to have overlooked the fact that an AVR contains 7 independent 100 wpc power amps with excellent performance and a long service life while the Dyna 70 was actually a 25 wpc 2-channel amp shortly after you first turned it on, and required new tubes every year or two if you listened to it routinely. Isn't total cost of ownership (TCO) part of a good financial analysis? For real fun, try hooking a Dyna 70 to a modern BD player. No common connectors, won't work, won't even try! arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
doctor_big wrote: > In 10 years the tube amp will be worth close to its original value, > while the avr will be worth pennies on the dollar. > > Isn't that what we were talking about? Not really, no. doctor_big wrote: > I simply like the tube sound. That's cool. Apesbrain's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=738 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
doctor_big wrote: > I simply like the tube sound. > > Ok, so there's a metric shit-ton of high tech, better-than-you-can-hear > stuff in an avr, and a tube amp is point-to-point soldered garbage. > > In 10 years the tube amp will be worth close to its original value, > while the avr will be worth pennies on the dollar. > > Isn't that what we were talking about? > > Jason Absolutely correct! By the same reasoning the good old plastic Sqeezebox Touch is currently selling used for anywhere from $400 and up, an increase of over 30% from the original list price. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
I simply like the tube sound. Ok, so there's a metric shit-ton of high tech, better-than-you-can-hear stuff in an avr, and a tube amp is point-to-point soldered garbage. In 10 years the tube amp will be worth close to its original value, while the avr will be worth pennies on the dollar. Isn't that what we were talking about? Jason doctor_big's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15196 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Mnyb wrote: > ... > > I think some have actually misunderstood the whole concept a hifi system > con not really sound "good" it can sound "less bad" . It's not an > additive process where you simple add more goodness with each multi > thousand dollar purchase . > Instead the system sounds less and less bad by not obscuring the source > material with distortion and noise . 0.01% THD actually means 99.99% > untouched signal for you enjoy ;) Excellent! Very well put! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
arnyk wrote: > The above is not true, and its even less true if you consider the > benefits of modern technology. > > (1) The analog preamp section of common AVRs are rarely used because > AVRs interact largely with front end devices whose outputs are digital > audio. Judging AVRs by their analog preamp sections is like judging > modern cars by their horse whip holders. > > (2) Modern AVRs typically have precise stepped volume controls which > would be very costly when implemented using traditional technology. The > benefits are precise channel balance, indefinite life, and ideal > logarithmic attenuation across a wide range of volume levels, Their > minimal gain settings that are totally quiet with no signal leakage > which is not uncommon in legacy analog gear. > > (3) Modern AVRs have far better noise, distortion and frequency response > performance than tubed gear. Tube bigots often claim that measured > performance doesn't matter, so you have to disbelieve science if you are > going to give their claims any credibility. Actually the best case is that's not much of (1) the analog preamp left , just some 24 bit ADC that may not be optimal but probably perform beyond human abilities so legacy searches quickly becomes digital so they can benefit from the rest the AVR's processing . (3) disbelieving science yes . Very few can actually admit that they simply like the tube sound :) it's ok it's a free world . But instead tries very contorted "explanations" for why this sound is actually more accurate when it's not ? So enjoy your tube gears euphonic'sbut don't pretend that's it about hifi or accurate reproducing of source material as would be the case if you wanted to hear wats on the CD's and files you own . I think some have actually misunderstood the whole concept a hifi system con not really sound "good" it can sound "less bad" . It's not an additive process where you simple add more goodness with each multi thousand dollar purchase . Instead the system sounds less and less bad by not obscuring the source material with distortion and noise . 0.01% THD actually means 99.99% untouched signal for you enjoy ;) Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
jh901 wrote: > Indeed, Jason. > > The pre-amp section alone of common AVRs is cheaply implemented compared > to a stand-alone tube pre-amp. The above is not true, and its even less true if you consider the benefits of modern technology. (1) The analog preamp section of common AVRs are rarely used because AVRs interact largely with front end devices whose outputs are digital audio. Judging AVRs by their analog preamp sections is like judging modern cars by their horse whip holders. (2) Modern AVRs typically have precise stepped volume controls which would be very costly when implemented using traditional technology. The benefits are precise channel balance, indefinite life, and ideal logarithmic attenuation across a wide range of volume levels, Their minimal gain settings that are totally quiet with no signal leakage which is not uncommon in legacy analog gear. (3) Modern AVRs have far better noise, distortion and frequency response performance than tubed gear. Tube bigots often claim that measured performance doesn't matter, so you have to desbelieve science if you are going to give their claims any credibility. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Julf wrote: > So which ones have you talked with? Don't expect a list of real world names... arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
jh901 wrote: > Engineers who actually design audio gear for a living and who have > decades of experience will run circles around Hydrogen worshipers... This is unwarranted, unsubstantiated, and unwanted over here. If you can't handle what people have to say at other forums then don't go there. Please stop trying to flamebait with HA; it's not what we're about. Apesbrain's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=738 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
jh901 wrote: > Engineers who actually design audio gear for a living and who have > decades of experience will run circles around Hydrogen worshipers So which ones have you talked with? "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
doctor_big wrote: > > Anyway, a simple way to contrast the relative values is to nip over to > Audiogon and check how much a 10-year-old top-of-the-line AVR sells for, > versus a 10-year-old tube amp. > > Old AVRs are essentially worthless. They depreciate like computers. > Makes sense, really - who wants an AVR that only switches S-video > signals? On the other hand, a Dynaco Stereo 70 is worth more now than > it was when new (not adjusted for inflation, of course). > > In 1993 or so, I bought a used Sonic Frontiers SFS-40 amp for (IIRC) > $1000. Long out of production, they still sell for that now. > This is why some people hide from me. Their analyses and claims are highly flawed and by not reading my posts they can perpetuate the lie in their minds that their thoughts are correct or even relevant. Comparing 10 year old AVRs and 10 year old tubed amps is illogical and that is obvious to most reasonable people. They aren't comparable in any reasonable way, except that they both amplify sound (the tubed amp only does this if it receives continual maintenance because it is always in the process of wearing out critical components). One strike for rationality is admitting that a Stereo 70 is as valuable as it was when it was new only if inflation is ignored. What kind of an error is this. I owned a ST70 in 1966 and as an assembled amplifier it was worth about $150. A table of the CPI is found here: http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/consumer-price-index-and-annual-percent-changes-from-1913-to-2008/ The current CPI is 239, and the CPI in 1966 was about 32. The $150 that the Dyna 70 cost me in 1966 is worth $1120 today. OTOH, a ST70 in good operable condition would cost me now about half that or a little more. It is a horrible financial investment. So, there is the first error - an intentional error - ignoring the great effect of inflation. However, the market for Dyna 70s is miniscule because almost nobody wants them. Besides their horrendous true cost, they are unreliable and don't work with modern audio systems unless you add more ultra expensive equipment. They are collectors items. Comparing collectors items to current production equipment is totally unreasonable. In my mind, only a person who insults and dismisses his reader's intelligence would try to sucker them into believing the above rediculous comparison. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
doctor_big wrote: > > > Old AVRs are essentially worthless. They depreciate like computers. > Makes sense, really - who wants an AVR that only switches S-video > signals? On the other hand, a Dynaco Stereo 70 is worth more now than > it was when new (not adjusted for inflation, of course). > > Indeed, Jason. The pre-amp section alone of common AVRs is cheaply implemented compared to a stand-alone tube pre-amp. My Cary SLP-05 was introduced in 2006 and it remains on the market today with quite a healthy MSRP. Who knew that Dennis Had has any talent!? Engineers who actually design audio gear for a living and who have decades of experience will run circles around Hydrogen worshipers, but they've gotten themselves locked in pretty good. I have a great deal of fun listening to music and adding to my collection. The OP would be wise to consider tube integrated amp. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | "Rule of Thirds" for speaker & sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
doctor_big wrote: > That cheery little chap is on my ignore list, so I don't see his posts. > Since you are now publicly admitting that you are hiding from my probing questions, its a clear win for the objectivists. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
jh901 wrote: > Can you support your claim that "good" AVRs and modern, well regarded > tube power amps deliver the same audible experience and hold value > equally well? I don't see any answerable questions. Items like "good AVRs" and "modern well-regraded tubed power amps" are clearly in the eyes of the beholder. I'm already on the record as saying that the phase "modern well-regraded tubed power amps" is an oxymoron and everybody seems to agree with me, or at least has no counter evidence. I've already challenged the vacuum-heads around here to define "modern well-regraded tubed power amps" without mentioning makes or models and all of those chickens seem to have run away. As far as holding value goes, I define holding value in terms of not losing value. Since you can't buy a decent tube amp without spending many times the price of good mainstream audio gear, buying one puts a lot of money at risk. Besides, nobody has come froth with any audited industry-wide statistics. We are back where the subjectivists like to live - the guy who screams the loudest, repeats the same lies the most often, hides out from tough questions, and insults the most people asserts that he has won the argument. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
jh901 wrote: > Can you support your claim that "good" AVRs and modern, well regarded > tube power amps deliver the same audible experience and hold value > equally well? That cheery little chap is on my ignore list, so I don't see his posts. But your quote revealed one. Thanks for nothing! Anyway, a simple way to contrast the relative values is to nip over to Audiogon and check how much a 10-year-old top-of-the-line AVR sells for, versus a 10-year-old tube amp. Old AVRs are essentially worthless. They depreciate like computers. Makes sense, really - who wants an AVR that only switches S-video signals? On the other hand, a Dynaco Stereo 70 is worth more now than it was when new (not adjusted for inflation, of course). In 1993 or so, I bought a used Sonic Frontiers SFS-40 amp for (IIRC) $1000. Long out of production, they still sell for that now. Jason doctor_big's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15196 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
arnyk wrote: > False claim based on faulty accounting. > > At this point a good SS music player (Sansa Clip) can cost as little as > $39.95 while the high end version of the same thing (Pono) runs about 10 > times that. In ABX testing they can reasonably expected to be > indistinguishable. > > The Clip can only lose $39.95 of its value because then it would be > free. The Pono probably loses $39.95 of its value before it has been > fully walked out of the store. > > This also applies when you compare good AVRs to tubed power amps. Can you support your claim that "good" AVRs and modern, well regarded tube power amps deliver the same audible experience and hold value equally well? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | "Rule of Thirds" for speaker & sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
doctor_big wrote: > Very true. However, tube gear seems to hold its value better than solid > state. False claim based on faulty accounting. At this point a good SS music player (Sansa Clip) can cost as little as $39.95 while the high end version of the same thing (Pono) runs about 10 times that. In ABX testing they can reasonably expected to be indistinguishable. The Clip can only lose $39.95 of its value because then it would be free. The Pono probably loses $39.95 of its value before it has been fully walked out of the store. This also applies when you compare good AVRs to tubed power amps. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
philippe_44 wrote: > And frankly speaking, Swedish people are notably good in English while > French are notably bad - education There is also the issue of need/motivation - French is spoken by something like 100 million people as a first language, and another 200 million as a second language, while Swedish is spoken by 9 million and Finnish by 5 million people... :) "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Julf wrote: > I can relate to that - as I might have stated before, English is my > third language (the first and second were Swedish and Finnish), and I > have pretty much lost all my German since learning Dutch (I have been > living here in Amsterdam since 1997). It does help that my wife is > American and teaches English (literature)... :) And frankly speaking, Swedish people are notably good in English while French are notably bad - education Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk LMS 7.7.2 - 5 radio, 3 Boom, 4 Duet, 1 Touch, 1 SB2. Sonos 2xPLAY:1, PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBMC, Foobar2000, XBoxOne (sort of) philippe_44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
philippe_44 wrote: > Yes, thank you - not being English-native makes it extra-difficult > sometimes :( I can relate to that - as I might have stated before, English is my third language (the first and second were Swedish and Finnish), and I have pretty much lost all my German since learning Dutch (I have been living here in Amsterdam since 1997). It does help that my wife is American and teaches English (literature)... :) "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
doctor_big wrote: > Very true. However, tube gear seems to hold its value better than solid > state. Probably due to the fact that the bog-standard EL34 pentode > circuit matured 50+ years ago, and the value is all in the transformers. > A 20 year old tube amp is going to hold more of its original value than > is a 20 year old SS amp. Kinda like quartz watches vs automatics (the > parallel there holds to several levels). That is a good point - just like some classic cars are now going for way more than they were worth when new, while others can be had for peanuts - it is all a question of perception, desirability and "collectability". > Pretty much any cheap tube integrated is a Dynaco Stereo 70 at its core, > and ST70s sell for more today than when they were new. I guess the last big development in tube amps was the change to semiconductor rectifiers in the power supplies - but it is funny how some modern tube amps now have microprocessors (with hundreds of thousands of transistors) just to automatically adjust the bias and switch the inputs... "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
To refine my own post , choose speakers first . As this most of the sound . Then pick an amp that can drive them Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
ralphpnj wrote: > Although it hasn't been mentioned as yet but since you state that you > are doing this for own enlightenment I suggest that you fully explore > the used equipment market such as ebay and audiogon. Should it turn out > that tube sound is not for you then hopefully you can then resell the > equipment without taking a big monetary hit. One of the great things > about audiophiles is that so many of them are always chasing this year's > "ultimate" whatever that lots of last year's "ultimate" whatevers are > always showing up on the used market. Very true. However, tube gear seems to hold its value better than solid state. Probably due to the fact that the bog-standard EL34 pentode circuit matured 50+ years ago, and the value is all in the transformers. A 20 year old tube amp is going to hold more of its original value than is a 20 year old SS amp. Kinda like quartz watches vs automatics (the parallel there holds to several levels). Pretty much any cheap tube integrated is a Dynaco Stereo 70 at its core, and ST70s sell for more today than when they were new. Jason doctor_big's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15196 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Julf wrote: > No, I think what philippe is saying is "I don't care if it is high > fidelity or not - if it is pleasing, it is pleasing". Yes, thank you - not being English-native makes it extra-difficult sometimes :( LMS 7.7.2 - 5 radio, 3 Boom, 4 Duet, 1 Touch, 1 SB2. Sonos 2xPLAY:1, PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBMC, Foobar2000, XBoxOne (sort of) philippe_44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
arnyk wrote: > That seems like a concession that if tubed equipment has audible > distortion, then should be ignored because it is not High Fidelity. No, I think what philippe is saying is "I don't care if it is high fidelity or not - if it is pleasing, it is pleasing". "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
philippe_44 wrote: > This is why I meant - this is not *about* fidelity any more because with > non-linearity, fidelity is gone > That seems like a concession that if tubed equipment has audible distortion, then should be ignored because it is not High Fidelity. If tubed gear doesn't have audible distortion then it would sound like good SS equpment, in which case why go out of your way or pay the extra bucks to obtain it? arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Although it hasn't been mentioned as yet but since you state that you are doing this for own enlightenment I suggest that you fully explore the used equipment market such as ebay and audiogon. Should it turn out that tube sound is not for you then hopefully you can then resell the equipment without taking a big monetary hit. One of the great things about audiophiles is that so many of them are always chasing this year's "ultimate" whatever that lots of last year's "ultimate" whatevers are always showing up on the used market. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. & sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 & Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose & Muso Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
I can't speak from first-hand experience but a modestly-priced ($1000) tube amp that a number of people seem to like is the Decware Super Zen Triode: http://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84CKC.html It's very low power so you'd need to use some high efficiency speakers, e.g. 92+ dB. Decware makes some and I'd also look at the Omega line: http://omegaloudspeakers.com/home.html Seems a reasonable solution if you want the tube experience. Apesbrain's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=738 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
arnyk wrote: > Any nonlinearity is irrelevant to your listening experience if you can't > hear it, which is likely. > > Another false premise. If you can hear distortion then it has a great > deal with fidelity, since audible distortion destroys fidelity. This is why I meant - this is not *about* fidelity any more because with non-linearity, fidelity is gone Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk LMS 7.7.2 - 5 radio, 3 Boom, 4 Duet, 1 Touch, 1 SB2. Sonos 2xPLAY:1, PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBMC, Foobar2000, XBoxOne (sort of) philippe_44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
philippe_44 wrote: > This is not what my I meant: I wanted to say different food made of good > quality ingredients can taste good or bad to me, but the only way to > know is to taste. > That is often true for food, but it is not generally true for audio gear. So, you are basing your argument on a false premise, which is that you can generally hear differences between different piece of audio gear. While that is pretty much guaranteed for food, it isn't guaranteed for audio gear. > > So the non-linearity of a tube amp might work for me and I might like > the aesthetic. > Any nonlinearity is irrelevant to your listening experience if you can't hear it, which is likely. > > Nothing to do with the fidelity, as it is distortion. > Another false premise. If you can hear distortion then it has a great deal with fidelity, since audible distortion destroys fidelity. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
And thank for all the answers with references, it will help me making up my decision in the coming weeks Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk LMS 7.7.2 - 5 radio, 3 Boom, 4 Duet, 1 Touch, 1 SB2. Sonos 2xPLAY:1, PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBMC, Foobar2000, XBoxOne (sort of) philippe_44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
arnyk wrote: > It is generally agreed upon based on scientific sensory evaluation that > most if not virtually all good food tastes different, but there is no > corresponding agreement about the SQ of good audio components, so the > comparison that seems to be made above makes no sense. This is not what my I meant: I wanted to say different food made of good quality ingredients can taste good or bad to me, but the only way to know is to taste. So the non-linearity of a tube amp might work for me and I might like the aesthetic. (Although I can certainly digitally reproduce the non-linearities to try first). Nothing to do with the fidelity, as it is distortion. Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk LMS 7.7.2 - 5 radio, 3 Boom, 4 Duet, 1 Touch, 1 SB2. Sonos 2xPLAY:1, PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBMC, Foobar2000, XBoxOne (sort of) philippe_44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Hello fhillipe my 0.02 $ you find a reasonable speaker . Then figure if can be driven by a tube power amp if not go solid state . Imho in high sensitivity speakers you can find pretty flawed designs with bad frequncy response and weird directivity . It can be some inversy synergy here to be able to use some tube amps uou may have to use crappy speakers , and what was the piont ? Dont rule out active speakkers my favorite go to option. Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (spares Touch, SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
arnyk wrote: > Of course not, because with subjectivist's in the driver's seat, > whatever gear I choose to evaluate is automatically disqualified. > > Interesting. For the record, when I taste something fantastic I find that my reaction is reflexive- a smile, etc. Same thing happens when I experience listening to well reproduced recorded music. Don't even need wine as some seem to. You have avoided this pleasure in the name of "science". Way. To. Go. arnyk wrote: > > > BTW "modern tube pre-amp" and "modern tube power amp" are oxymorons. > Simply, any tube pre, power or integrated released in the last 15 years and still in production. And back on topic for the OP, check out youtube and search 'ELAC Andrew Jones'. He's an actual speaker designer. Also has a physics degree. Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | "Rule of Thirds" for speaker & sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
jh901 wrote: > Have you meaningfully evaluated a highly regarded, modern tube pre-amp > in your set-up? Tube power amp? Any of the DACs which we can't even > discuss here from the past few years? Of course not, because with subjectivist's in the driver's seat, whatever gear I choose to evaluate is automatically disqualified. That is one of the charms of subjectivism, subjectivists can say whatever they want without proof or evidence to back it up. BTW "modern tube pre-amp" and "modern tube power amp" are oxymorons. Prove me wrong - provide a formal definition of what those are without naming specific pieces of gear. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
arnyk wrote: > All the more reason why you should be interested in doing a meaningful > evaluation, not a junk one. Have you meaningfully evaluated a highly regarded, modern tube pre-amp in your set-up? Tube power amp? Any of the DACs which we can't even discuss here from the past few years? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | "Rule of Thirds" for speaker & sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
philippe_44 wrote: > Just to try if like or not the difference. No pre-conceived ideas but a > test. At least these recent discussions motivated me to try different > things and make my own opinion. > > There are any number of pre, power, and integrated amps to consider at various prices points. Same with speakers, of course. What is your current gear and what is a general price point for you speaker budget? Cary Audio 306 SACD Pro | Cary Audio SLP-05 | Cary Audio SA-200.2 | Focal Diablo Utopia III __Acoustic treatment: DIY Cylinder Bass traps | "Rule of Thirds" for speaker & sweet spot position __Speaker Cables: Analysis Plus Big Silver Oval | Shunyata Venom series power cords and power conditioning jh901's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18175 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
philippe_44 wrote: > And I'm not saying that I will not at this occasion learn ABX test for > the exact same reason to, with amusement, evaluate my own subjectivity. > But, to continue my parallel with food, as a travel a bunch, I also try > the local food, supposedly in good places, but not extra fancy neither. > I smell, look, chew carefully, let the impression go on my teeth, tongue > and palet to maximize sensorial effects and see the resulting pleasure. > - this is nothing but my impression and in some cases I purposely decide > to accept the bias for what it is > It is generally agreed upon based on scientific sensory evaluation that most if not virtually all good food tastes different, but there is no corresponding agreement about the SQ of good audio components, so the comparison that seems to be made above makes no sense. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
SuperQ wrote: > With a room in the 40m2 size, maybe something like this would suit you: > > http://www.peachtreeaudio.com/all-products/amplifiers-dac.html > > It's a solid-state amp, but has an optional tube buffer to add a bit of > the "tube sound" analog noise that people like. > > For your room size, the 65w model is probably fine, but maybe the 125w > model would be better if you are thinking about putting it in a larger > room some day. > > The nice thing about the peachtree is also it comes with a reasonable > DAC built-in. I had one of those. The tube is a buffer only. On mine you could switch it in and out. Made no difference whatsoever. Good sounding amp and dac though. I recently bought a Yaqin chi-fi integrated el34 stereo amp.got it used for $600 Canadian. I'm using it in a second system and it's great. Slightly warm sounding but not over the top. Exactly what I was looking for. Jason. doctor_big's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15196 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
And I'm not saying that I will not at this occasion learn ABX test for the exact same reason to, with amusement, evaluate my own subjectivity. But, to continue my parallel with food, as a travel a bunch, I also try the local food, supposedly in good places, but not extra fancy neither. I smell, look, chew carefully, let the impression got on my tongue and palet to maximize sensorial effects and see the resulting pleasure. - this is nothing but my impression and in some cases I purposely decide to accept the bias for what it is Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk LMS 7.7.2 - 5 radio, 3 Boom, 4 Duet, 1 Touch, 1 SB2. Sonos 2xPLAY:1, PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBMC, Foobar2000, XBoxOne (sort of) philippe_44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
philippe_44 wrote: > I absolutely and fully get that. The 'test' is purely for myself, not to > start saying loudly here and there that X or Y 'is' better because I > 'felt' it like that. > > > Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk All the more reason why you should be interested in doing a meaningful evaluation, not a junk one. The best reason in the world - self interest. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
arnyk wrote: > I can pretty well guarantee you that whatever you do, it won't really be > a test and it won't be unaffected by your preconceptions. I absolutely and fully get that. The 'test' is purely for myself, not to start saying loudly here and there that X or Y 'is' better because I 'felt' it like that. Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk LMS 7.7.2 - 5 radio, 3 Boom, 4 Duet, 1 Touch, 1 SB2. Sonos 2xPLAY:1, PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBMC, Foobar2000, XBoxOne (sort of) philippe_44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
philippe_44 wrote: > Just to try if like or not the difference. No pre-conceived ideas but a > test. At least these recent discussions motivated me to try different > things and make my own opinion. > I can pretty well guarantee you that whatever you do, it won't really be a test and it won't be unaffected by your preconceptions. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
arnyk wrote: > Why waste a set of good speakers on a tubed amp? Just to try if like or not the difference. No pre-conceived ideas but a test. At least these recent discussions motivated me to try different things and make my own opinion. Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Tapatalk LMS 7.7.2 - 5 radio, 3 Boom, 4 Duet, 1 Touch, 1 SB2. Sonos 2xPLAY:1, PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBMC, Foobar2000, XBoxOne (sort of) philippe_44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
philippe_44 wrote: > Budget I don't have a precise idea, I just don't want to go ridiculously > high. Room is about 40m2 and listen to classical jazz I would say Archimago's $1000 for the amp is probably near the sweet spot. Sounds like you don't need super-deep bass or "goes to 11" volume levels. Is the reason to go for a tube amp a desire to experience a retro feeling - in that case, i would go for something like the smaller Tannoy dual concentrics - if not, I agree with the KEF LS50 recommendation. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
arnyk wrote: > Why waste a set of good speakers on a tubed amp? Subjective preference? "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
philippe_44 wrote: > In the audiophile forum of LMS, where I hope people are usually > reasonnable, what would be your advice for a good pair of speakers and a > tube amplifier (I've always wanted to try one). Nothing extra fancy, but > a "reasonnable" budget. Please no fights here, my question is candide, > no hidden intention to create another flame war. > Why waste a set of good speakers on a tubed amp? arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Many years ago I heard a system with Audion Silver Night power amp and Cadence electrostatic hybrids - a memorable experience. Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/ SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
With a room in the 40m2 size, maybe something like this would suit you: http://www.peachtreeaudio.com/all-products/amplifiers-dac.html It's a solid-state amp, but has an optional tube buffer to add a bit of the "tube sound" analog noise that people like. For your room size, the 65w model is probably fine, but maybe the 125w model would be better if you are thinking about putting it in a larger room some day. The nice thing about the peachtree is also it comes with a reasonable DAC built-in. SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Well, a few years ago I bought my dad an Onix Melody SP3 tube amp (~40Wpc) for a present. It goes for about $1000 - not sure if still in production. Here are a couple reviews: 'Audioholics review' (http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/onix-melody-sp3-tube-integrated-amplifier-review) '6moon review' (http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/onix/onix_3.html) Although I prefer solid state, my dad loves his tube gear. It sounds really good and he still uses it regularly. As for speakers, I think if I wanted to spend not too much money but have something that can last, I really liked the sound of the little KEF LS50. It gets good reviews from the typical places like Stereophile and overall, I agree. However at 85dB sensitivity, a more powerful solid state amp might be preferred if you have a larger room. Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
Budget I don't have a precise idea, I just don't want to go ridiculously high. Room is about 40m2 and listen to classical jazz LMS 7.7.2 - 5 radio, 3 Boom, 4 Duet, 1 Touch, 1 SB2. Sonos 2xPLAY:1, PLAY:3, PLAY:5, Marantz NR1603, JBL OnBeat, XBMC, Foobar2000, XBoxOne (sort of) philippe_44's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17261 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Question on equipment
philippe_44 wrote: > In the audiophile forum of LMS, where I hope people are usually > reasonnable, what would be your advice for a good pair of speakers and a > tube amplifier (I've always wanted to try one). Nothing extra fancy, but > a "reasonnable" budget. Please no fights here, my question is candide, > no hidden intention to create another flame war. That's a rather open-ended question :) What is your budget? How big is you room? What do you usually listen to? With a tube amp, you want reasonably sensitive speakers. My current tube amp is an old Sonic Frontiers Assemblage kit, but I'm afraid they aren't available any more :( "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=103980 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
