Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
adamslim;203201 Wrote: > What actually is the reason for the lack of 24/96 support on the SB3? > Adam The DAC is probably the least of the problems with an SB3 supporting 24/96 I suspect the reason is processing power of the SB3's DSP, although I haven't looked closely enough at the hardware to really understand how the entire thing is implemented. I think if it could be done as a firmware update, it would have been. As for the need for lossless compression versus the decreasing cost of disk drives, you're probably correct, the need is decreasing. With faster and faster ethernet, the data rates of music are really a non-issue unless your network is heavily loaded. My lossless compressed music files are currently sitting in the 250 Gig range, so worst case, uncompressed they'd still be less than 500 Gig as wav's. We need someone to create a nice new standard, perhaps even as simple as a wrapper around a wav file, to allow taging, artwork, lyrics, and so on. From a technical point of view, it would really be very straight forward... Now getting everybody to start using your new standard, well that's a whole different problem! Cheers! Dave -- DCtoDaylight DCtoDaylight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7284 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
seanadams;202839 Wrote: > I think you are still under the misconception that 96KHz is supposed to > work on SB3. Though technically correct, it seems kind of silly to call > it a "known issue" when it isn't supposed to. What actually is the reason for the lack of 24/96 support on the SB3? I think the DAC can handle it, so is there something else? Now that 24/96 downloads are becoming easier to find, it would be useful... Adam -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) SB+, EAR 859, Living Voice Auditorium II plus some other stuff SB3, Shek d2, Ming-Da MC84-C, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
TiredLegs;203187 Wrote: > I'm stumped why people seem so concerned about compression. Well, if you can, and it's easy (it is) then why not? Although disc space is cheap, it's not free, and you start to run into major expenses once you get above 500 GB - you need expensive 750 GB or 1 TB drives or RAID. Also in regards to tagging, I've seen more than a few WAV users on the forum who suddenly ran into strange library problems and were left up the creek due to the limited options and relative inflexibility. -- Mark Lanctot 'Sean Adams' Response-O-Matic checklist, patent pending!' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=200910&postcount=2) Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
TiredLegs;203187 Wrote: > Hard disk space is dirt cheap these days. Just bought a 500GB drive for > $100. That's $0.20 per gigabyte. My 387 CDs ripped to WAV take up a > total of 197GB. > > The only downsides to WAV are the lack of tagging, and possible > bandwidth constraints if you're running wireless. Slimserver can > accurately parse my filenames (Artist-Album-Tracknumber-TrackTitle.wav) > to create its database, and I'm running my two SB3s hard wired. > > I'm stumped why people seem so concerned about compression. Tagging is the issue for me - I use multiple tags per field, which would not be possible with wav. A lesser issue is the noise - I've just had to add a second HD to bring me up to 900GB, and I can handle two Spinpoints to cover that. However, if I had three HDs, it would be getting noisy. The ~50% file size reduction with FLAC is handy. Adam -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) SB+, EAR 859, Living Voice Auditorium II plus some other stuff SB3, Shek d2, Ming-Da MC84-C, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
AndyC_772;202585 Wrote: > IMHO the best quality widely compatible format you can get is WAV... > > ...provided I'm not the one paying for the disc space! :) Hard disk space is dirt cheap these days. Just bought a 500GB drive for $100. That's $0.20 per gigabyte. My 387 CDs ripped to WAV take up a total of 197GB. The only downsides to WAV are the lack of tagging, and possible bandwidth constraints if you're running wireless. Slimserver can accurately parse my filenames (Artist-Album-Tracknumber-TrackTitle.wav) to create its database, and I'm running my two SB3s hard wired. I'm stumped why people seem so concerned about compression. -- TiredLegs TiredLegs's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6201 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
seanadams;202839 Wrote: > I think you are still under the misconception that 96KHz is supposed to > work on SB3. No, I understand fully that the SB3 doesn't support 96K, and I understood if fully when I bought my two Transporters that do... I've put together a whole house system, with 3 SB3's and 2 Transporters, all fed from a dedicated server in the basement. With my setup, I've had problems with 96K flac files on both the SB3's and the Transporter, and am currently using uncompressed .wav's of the hi res files because of this. The uncompressed files play fine on both. I admit my choice of examples was a poor one, sorry if I've caused any confusion. Dave -- DCtoDaylight DCtoDaylight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7284 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
DCtoDaylight;202822 Wrote: > Just for the record, my comment was NOT meant to be a critical of the > SB3, simply to point out that you might be misled by a problem in > hardware or software, and that just because a file format is lossless > you can't assume it's handled properly. OK, so by the same token, I can't say that vorbis sounds as good as mp3, because vorbis doesn't sound good on my ipod. And I can't say that CD sounds as good as DAT, because if I shove a CD in a DAT player it won't sound very good... due to a hardware problem, it is not supported properly. :) > I used a known issue with the SB3 as an example, because some on this > forum are familiar with it. I think you are still under the misconception that 96KHz is supposed to work on SB3. Though technically correct, it seems kind of silly to call it a "known issue" when it isn't supposed to. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
seanadams;202536 Wrote: > This is the problem sometimes with responding to every customer feature > request. SB3 does not support 96Khz playback. Just for the record, my comment was NOT meant to be a critical of the SB3, simply to point out that you might be misled by a problem in hardware or software, and that just because a file format is lossless you can't assume it's handled properly. I used a known issue with the SB3 as an example, because some on this forum are familiar with it. -- DCtoDaylight DCtoDaylight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7284 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
cliveb;202579 Wrote: > At the risk of having my audiophile epaulets torn from my jacket, I'd be > tempted to suggest that the best quality widely compatible format you > can get these days is 320kbs CBR MP3. ROFL! This reminds me of the beginning of the old TV show *'\"Branded\"' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKmJPnAGUJk)*! -- andy_c andy_c's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3128 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
willyhoops;202704 Wrote: > but they don't have that secure mode which is why we all flagellate > ourselves like medival monks with EAC and dbpoweramp to flac :-) AFAIK dbpoweramp now incorporates secure mode ripping as well as allmusic integration for tagging. -- egd Transporter >> SCA2 >> SCM100SLAT via balanced XLR Linux and loving IT! egd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3425 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
opaqueice;202657 Wrote: > You didn't read very carefully... I was wondering how to point that out without offending ;-) -- egd Transporter >> SCA2 >> SCM100SLAT via balanced XLR Linux and loving IT! egd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3425 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
yes itunes and media player do a much better job of tags and artwork and are so easy to use... but they don't have that secure mode which is why we all flagellate ourselves like medival monks with EAC and dbpoweramp to flac :-) -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
Any lossless compressed format is fine. You just need to pick the one that works for your equipment the best. Personally I think some of the commercial formats (that use commercial tools) do a more consistent job at tags and artwork. -- mswlogo mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
willyhoops;202569 Wrote: > Hey he is comparng lossless to lossly here. He is NOT saying apple > lossless is better than flac. > You didn't read very carefully - he says it's a good compromise to use ALAC rather than uncompressed. What compromise? Later he says it has "a remarkable sound for a file using any compression at all", again betraying an acute lack of brain cells. If you're going to write an article about this, the very first thing to do is to explain the difference between uncompressed, lossless compression, and lossy compression. Although I suppose you have to understand it first... -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
egd;202639 Wrote: > Are there *ANY* decent hifi publications still in existence? I subscribe to Hi-Fi World and enjoy it. -- DennyL DennyL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
DennyL;202634 Wrote: > Of the UK hi-fi mags, What Hi-Fi is by far the worst. I don't know how > hi-fi marketing works, but I had always assumed that this mag has > always seen its role as a provider of hype that can be quoted in > advertisements. I have never been able to take anything about it > seriously. It isn't even funny, and has no use. Like I sad, next time I'm going long-haul I'll grab a comic, it's bound to be more informative. Are there *ANY* decent hifi publications still in existence? -- egd Transporter >> SCA2 >> SCM100SLAT via balanced XLR Linux and loving IT! egd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3425 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
egd;202499 Wrote: > > Clearly, this is a magazine not intended for anyone capable of thinking > for themselves, I'd even go so far as to label those articles > irresponsible journalism. Of the UK hi-fi mags, What Hi-Fi is by far the worst. I don't know how hi-fi marketing works, but I had always assumed that this mag has always seen its role as a provider of hype that can be quoted in advertisements. I have never been able to take anything about it seriously. It isn't even funny, and has no use. -- DennyL DennyL's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8446 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
yes everything does wav but the big problem with it that the offical wav standard does not allow id3 tags to be attached. if you put an id3 tag on a wav it might come through as a blip of static at the end when you play! but we don't need to worry that much... thanks to conversion programs we squeezebox users can stick with flac and convert when needed. i do this all the time - converting to aac for my girlfriends ipod, atrac for my sony nw-hd5, and wma lossless for my laptop and for friends. good thing the pc is not in the bedroom for all the grinding away of the hard drive. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
AndyC_772;202585 Wrote: > IMHO the best quality widely compatible format you can get is WAV... Yes, good point. I'd forgotten about uncompressed formats. As a matter of interest, do all devices actually support WAV? -- cliveb Performers -> dozens of mixers and effects -> clipped/hypercompressed mastering -> you think a few extra ps of jitter matters? cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
IMHO the best quality widely compatible format you can get is WAV... ...provided I'm not the one paying for the disc space! :) -- AndyC_772 AndyC_772's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
egd;202499 Wrote: > quoting from "What HiFi planet are we on?": > page 80 -"Sound Advice" : "Quality vs file-size conundrum"-- "*Apple > Lossless is the best-quality widely compatible format* " What is their definition of "widely compatible"? None of the lossless codecs are universally playable. At the risk of having my audiophile epaulets torn from my jacket, I'd be tempted to suggest that the best quality widely compatible format you can get these days is 320kbs CBR MP3. -- cliveb Performers -> dozens of mixers and effects -> clipped/hypercompressed mastering -> you think a few extra ps of jitter matters? cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
> the most effective compromise is to rip all your music to iTunes using > the Apple lossless format: it sounds significantly better than any > lossy compressions, yet is not as slow and hard-drive devouring as the > uncompressed file. Hey he is comparng lossless to lossly here. He is NOT saying apple lossless is better than flac. It's not such a sin to say this... After all apple ipod is the most popular player and the squeezebox plays apple lossless but the ipod does not play flac. So from one of point of view he is correct that for most people in the world apple lossless is a the best choice with the widest support. Of course it doesn't play in Windows Media Player so I think only apple users would agree with him. If you own a PC WMA lossless might get your vote. If I had a complaint I would say he has not mentioned that apple lossless eats battery life on the ipod. In practive the dreadful sound quality of an ipod does not justify a lossless format. 256k AAC would be easily enough. -- willyhoops willyhoops's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
DCtoDaylight;202532 Wrote: > At the risk of stirring things up, it's worth pointing out that our > beloved SB3's currently cannot play back all 96/24 flac files cleanly. This is the problem sometimes with responding to every customer feature request. SB3 does not support 96Khz playback. But somebody said they wanted to play 96Khz files when synced with their Transporter, so we added a crude decimation function to make it sort of work. But it was never supposed to do 24/96, and we don't even claim that it does. We just made it do what it can with 96KHz files because someone really wanted that, and now people complain that it doesn't work right! i.e. we gave them something broken to complain about instead of just not implementing the feature. I don't want to argue whether or not that was the right thing to do, I'm just giving you the background on it. 24/96 flac doesn't work, and it's not because flac "doesn't sound as good". So I get what you're saying, but it's irrelevant to the case in point, where the writer was obviously implying that there is some compromise inherent in the compression format itself. Obviously if your playback hardware doesn't support it then it's not going to work. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
At the risk of stirring things up, it's worth pointing out that our beloved SB3's currently cannot play back all 96/24 flac files cleanly. That is, they play, but contain obvious, audible problems. On the other hand, they CAN play uncompressed wav's without these problems. I offer this as proof that it's a little dangerous to state that you can't hear any effects of a lossless compression, without taking specific hardware into consideration. In a perfect world, lossless compression would be exactly that, but if the hardware isn't powerful enough, or if there are software bugs, or if you're multi-tasking and overloading your CPU, anything can happen -- DCtoDaylight DCtoDaylight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7284 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
adamslim;202509 Wrote: > You took quite a long post to get there... ;) > > Adam Clearly, however, I couldn't resist quoting some of the crap they extol. Their observations are so ludicrous they had me laughing. Next time I'm on a long haul flight I'll pick up a comic, it's bound to me more accurate and informative. -- egd Transporter >> SCA2 >> SCM100SLAT via balanced XLR Linux and loving IT! egd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3425 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
Hmm - posting on a audiophile forum, senior member... and yet you're surprised by crap audio journalism? Something isn't right. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What Hi-Fi - audiophiles or audiofools?
egd;202499 Wrote: > Clearly, this is a magazine not intended for anyone capable of thinking > for themselves You took quite a long post to get there... ;) Adam -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) SB+, EAR 859, Living Voice Auditorium II plus some other stuff SB3, Shek d2, Ming-Da MC84-C, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35350 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
