Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Frederik Nnaji]

Hi,

On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 13:19, Thorsten Wilms  wrote:

> On Wed, 2010-08-04 at 05:51 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
>
> > http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/446
>
> Have a look 2 mockups, thoughts and explanation at:
> http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/08/05/ayatana-sound-menu/
>

errm i don't see the connection here.. how are these documents related to
the topic at hand?
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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Thorsten Wilms]

On Wed, 2010-08-04 at 05:51 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:

> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/446

Have a look 2 mockups, thoughts and explanation at:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/08/05/ayatana-sound-menu/

(To Mark: sorry for the unnecessary copy!)


-- 
Thorsten Wilms

thorwil's design for free software:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/


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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 09:19, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:

> Scott Ritchie wrote on 03/05/10 23:43:
> >...
> > In short, the process of connecting to the internet for the very first
> > time did not work very well, as the indicator in its current form is
> > simply failing to indicate what we needed to know.
> >...
>
> Thanks for this report. I'll tackle this issue when designing the new
> networking interface. 
>
> Cheers
> - --
> Matthew Paul Thomas
> http://mpt.net.nz/


I didn't find anything of the sort in the Spec when i last looked, is it
still on the list?
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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Mark Shuttleworth]

On 15/06/10 02:09, Tyler Brainerd wrote:
>
> All the discussion of it I've seen to date has been netbook
> focused.  I'm interested to hear from someone at Canonical about
> desktop .
>
>
> Scott K
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking
> That's why I quoted from this page. It states fairly clearly that they
> are starting with the netbook edition, but it's the beginnings for all
> of ubuntu.
>

That's correct - we would like to use the new UI with connection manager
on the netbook edition for 10.10 and with the desktop edition for 11.04.
Of course, there's a lot of work to do to make it work to the required
standard, but we're completely committed to getting that work done.

It would be great to have Kubuntu along each step of the way, though
it's a Kubuntu decision if they want to make the switch it will be
easier for them to benefit from work being done elsewhere in Ubuntu if
they do so. The network indicator itself should be easy to embrace, what
may be more difficult is the network settings interface now being designed.

Hope that helps.

Mark


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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Tyler Brainerd]

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 5:58 PM, Scott Kitterman wrote:

>
>
> "Tyler Brainerd"  wrote:
>
> >On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Scott Kitterman  >wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> "Mark Shuttleworth"  wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >Just so folks are clear on direction:
> >> >
> >> > - we would like to move to Connection Manager ("connman") in due
> >> >course, for its cleaner, more pluggable, testable and maintainable
> >> >architecture
> >> > - we have a detailed, signed-off design for the indicator associated
> >> >with that at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking
> >> > - MPT is working on supporting designs, such as settings
> >> > - implementation has started on the indicator and code contributions
> >> >are welcome
> >> > - we aim to use this for 10.10 Netbook Edition (not desktop) unless it
> >> >fails badly
> >>
> >> Is the eventual plan for Ubuntu Desktop to move to conman as well (if so
> >> now is the time for other flavors to start looking into transition)?
> >>
> >>
> >"Ubuntu will integrate Connection Manager
> > (a.k.a.
> >ConnMan), with a human interface — a settings window and a network menu —
> >designed to cover networking in general, including network setup, proxy,
> and
> >firewall settings."
> >
> >It seems to be the eventual goal, according to the design specs.
> >
> All the discussion of it I've seen to date has been netbook focused.  I'm
> interested to hear from someone at Canonical about desktop .
>
> Scott K
>
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking
That's why I quoted from this page. It states fairly clearly that they are
starting with the netbook edition, but it's the beginnings for all of
ubuntu.


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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Scott Kitterman]

"Tyler Brainerd"  wrote:

>On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Mark Shuttleworth"  wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >Just so folks are clear on direction:
>> >
>> > - we would like to move to Connection Manager ("connman") in due
>> >course, for its cleaner, more pluggable, testable and maintainable
>> >architecture
>> > - we have a detailed, signed-off design for the indicator associated
>> >with that at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking
>> > - MPT is working on supporting designs, such as settings
>> > - implementation has started on the indicator and code contributions
>> >are welcome
>> > - we aim to use this for 10.10 Netbook Edition (not desktop) unless it
>> >fails badly
>>
>> Is the eventual plan for Ubuntu Desktop to move to conman as well (if so
>> now is the time for other flavors to start looking into transition)?
>>
>>
>"Ubuntu will integrate Connection Manager
> (a.k.a.
>ConnMan), with a human interface — a settings window and a network menu —
>designed to cover networking in general, including network setup, proxy, and
>firewall settings."
>
>It seems to be the eventual goal, according to the design specs.
>
All the discussion of it I've seen to date has been netbook focused.  I'm 
interested to hear from someone at Canonical about desktop .

Scott K

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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Tyler Brainerd]

On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Scott Kitterman wrote:

>
>
> "Mark Shuttleworth"  wrote:
>
> >
> >Just so folks are clear on direction:
> >
> > - we would like to move to Connection Manager ("connman") in due
> >course, for its cleaner, more pluggable, testable and maintainable
> >architecture
> > - we have a detailed, signed-off design for the indicator associated
> >with that at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking
> > - MPT is working on supporting designs, such as settings
> > - implementation has started on the indicator and code contributions
> >are welcome
> > - we aim to use this for 10.10 Netbook Edition (not desktop) unless it
> >fails badly
>
> Is the eventual plan for Ubuntu Desktop to move to conman as well (if so
> now is the time for other flavors to start looking into transition)?
>
>
"Ubuntu will integrate Connection Manager
 (a.k.a.
ConnMan), with a human interface — a settings window and a network menu —
designed to cover networking in general, including network setup, proxy, and
firewall settings."

It seems to be the eventual goal, according to the design specs.



> Scott K
>
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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Scott Kitterman]

"Mark Shuttleworth"  wrote:

>
>Just so folks are clear on direction:
>
> - we would like to move to Connection Manager ("connman") in due
>course, for its cleaner, more pluggable, testable and maintainable
>architecture
> - we have a detailed, signed-off design for the indicator associated
>with that at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking
> - MPT is working on supporting designs, such as settings
> - implementation has started on the indicator and code contributions
>are welcome
> - we aim to use this for 10.10 Netbook Edition (not desktop) unless it
>fails badly

Is the eventual plan for Ubuntu Desktop to move to conman as well (if so now is 
the time for other flavors to start looking into transition)?

Scott K

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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Mark Shuttleworth]

Just so folks are clear on direction:

 - we would like to move to Connection Manager ("connman") in due
course, for its cleaner, more pluggable, testable and maintainable
architecture
 - we have a detailed, signed-off design for the indicator associated
with that at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Networking
 - MPT is working on supporting designs, such as settings
 - implementation has started on the indicator and code contributions
are welcome
 - we aim to use this for 10.10 Netbook Edition (not desktop) unless it
fails badly
 - you can test this today using the indicator-network-developers PPA
and wiki.ubuntu.com/ConnMan iirc

In general, it would be best to focus Ayatana design conversations
around that work, or talk about its engineering on ayatana-dev. Network
Manager can use love too, but best to direct that to the list for that
project.

Mark
 


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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Matthew Paul Thomas]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Scott Ritchie wrote on 03/05/10 23:43:
>...
> In short, the process of connecting to the internet for the very first
> time did not work very well, as the indicator in its current form is
> simply failing to indicate what we needed to know.
>...

Thanks for this report. I'll tackle this issue when designing the new
networking interface. 

Cheers
- -- 
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
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Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 03:51, Scott Ritchie  wrote:

> On 05/03/2010 04:03 PM, Shane Fagan wrote:
> > Hey Scott,
> >
> > I actually find the network indication ok at the moment.
>

this might be OT but let me say it:
i think the indication is just fine, configuring a pppoe connection should
be handled by pppoeconf, since NM has quite a few cases in which it fails to
connect DSL ppp over ethernet, where pppoeconf just simply works.
another reason for this is that pppoeconf has an interactive UI, a wizard so
to speak, one question at a time. NM doesn't have a wizard for DSL pppoe
until today.
perhaps Zenity can help with this for now?!
there is also a configuration bug, that disables NM, once pppoeconf
configures pppoe..
simple file deletion workaround is available for that, once one is ready to
switch back to NM.
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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Scott Ritchie]

On 05/03/2010 04:03 PM, Shane Fagan wrote:
> Hey Scott,
> 
> I actually find the network indication ok at the moment. When the bars
> are ascending its connecting, when there is no animation its connected,
> if its failed to connect the password dialog pops up. If you click on
> the icon it tells you what you are connected to and offers a disconnect
> below the ones you are connected to. If you hover the mouse over the
> icon a tooltip says what network you are connected to and if its
> wireless it tells you the signal strength.

This is one tooltip that survived the chopping block.  In my case it
would have helped if there were also a "connecting" sort of tooltip as
well, as I couldn't intuit the connecting meaning from the icon alone.

Then again, I don't want tooltips - I want text of some sort.  The text
could be immediate, as soon as I hovered my mouse over the network icon
(why else would I put my mouse there?)

Thanks,
Scott Ritchie

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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Martin Owens]

On Mon, 2010-05-03 at 19:15 -0400, Alex Launi wrote:

> 
> Do you have links to what backend work needed done? i've got some
> experience with nm's core and might be able to knock it out. I had to
> do a lot of nm hacking at a job once.

Here is the blueprint wiki page:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BluePrints/OnlineStatus

It's got some cruft in there, but the basics are a set of tests that
when combined together produce a status.

Martin,


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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Scott Ritchie]

On 05/03/2010 04:15 PM, Alex Launi wrote:
> On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Martin Owens  > wrote:
> 
> We talked about it at UDS-L and the conclusion was: Network Manager
> backend needs improving before designs can be done.
> 
> 
> Do you have links to what backend work needed done? i've got some
> experience with nm's core and might be able to knock it out. I had to do
> a lot of nm hacking at a job once.
> 

I believe I attended that discussion, it was about connman mostly
filling in the missing links (and started at UDS-Karmic):

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Karmic/Connman

Thanks,
Scott Ritchie

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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Alex Launi]

On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 7:10 PM, Martin Owens  wrote:

> We talked about it at UDS-L and the conclusion was: Network Manager
> backend needs improving before designs can be done.
>

Do you have links to what backend work needed done? i've got some experience
with nm's core and might be able to knock it out. I had to do a lot of nm
hacking at a job once.

-- 
--Alex Launi
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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Martin Owens]

On Mon, 2010-05-03 at 15:43 -0700, Scott Ritchie wrote:
> 
> In short, the process of connecting to the internet for the very first
> time did not work very well, as the indicator in its current form is
> simply failing to indicate what we needed to know. 

There is an outstanding design issue surrounding indication of online vs
network connectivity (which are not the same thing).

We talked about it at UDS-L and the conclusion was: Network Manager
backend needs improving before designs can be done.

Martin,


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Re: [Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Shane Fagan]

Hey Scott,

I actually find the network indication ok at the moment. When the bars
are ascending its connecting, when there is no animation its connected,
if its failed to connect the password dialog pops up. If you click on
the icon it tells you what you are connected to and offers a disconnect
below the ones you are connected to. If you hover the mouse over the
icon a tooltip says what network you are connected to and if its
wireless it tells you the signal strength. 

All that being said it could be a little clearer at times and the
nm-applet needs a bit of user interface love.

-fagan

On Mon, 2010-05-03 at 15:43 -0700, Scott Ritchie wrote:
> I recently installed Ubuntu 10.04 for a friend who had never used Ubuntu
> before.  After the installation we were trying to remember the wifi
> password.
> 
> We took an initial guess at the password, and were left confused about
> whether or not it worked.  There was no feedback other than some
> animation in the indicator, however we couldn't figure out if that meant
> "connected" or "connecting" or was just the normal status.  There's no
> text on the icon to explain what it's doing, and clicking the indicator
> doesn't help either.
> 
> I couldn't figure out if it was connecting, connected, or giving up
> after a bad password.
> 
> We ended up having to open Firefox and see if it loads a page in order
> to tell that the wifi password was wrong.  This process repeated about 5
> times until we finally remembered the right password (and then saw a
> network manager notification).
> 
> 
> In short, the process of connecting to the internet for the very first
> time did not work very well, as the indicator in its current form is
> simply failing to indicate what we needed to know.
> 
> Thanks,
> Scott Ritchie
> 
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[Ayatana] How do I know when I'm connected to the network successfully?

[Scott Ritchie]

I recently installed Ubuntu 10.04 for a friend who had never used Ubuntu
before.  After the installation we were trying to remember the wifi
password.

We took an initial guess at the password, and were left confused about
whether or not it worked.  There was no feedback other than some
animation in the indicator, however we couldn't figure out if that meant
"connected" or "connecting" or was just the normal status.  There's no
text on the icon to explain what it's doing, and clicking the indicator
doesn't help either.

I couldn't figure out if it was connecting, connected, or giving up
after a bad password.

We ended up having to open Firefox and see if it loads a page in order
to tell that the wifi password was wrong.  This process repeated about 5
times until we finally remembered the right password (and then saw a
network manager notification).


In short, the process of connecting to the internet for the very first
time did not work very well, as the indicator in its current form is
simply failing to indicate what we needed to know.

Thanks,
Scott Ritchie

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