Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Susan Schoen]

Thank you!
I haven't even started to look for the marriages yet...

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 1:52 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> On the Azores GenWeb, I've got the 3 times periods, some key words posted
> (a scaled down version from the word list), and a fairly clear record and a
> line by line translation in English. Baptisms, marriages, and deaths.
> https://goo.gl/ny1kGM
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Susan Schoen]

As regards to the AM vs. PM?
Where is says "nove hora do dia" may mean during the day, whereas they
might use "noite" for night?
Kind of wild to think that with that information I could plot an
astrological chart.

On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 12:50 PM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Susan,
>
> It says essentially: Maria was baptized on 3 Sep 1865 but born 21 Aug 1865
> at 9 o'clock (here's where my skills are deplete-am or pm ?) , daughter of
> Antonio Pereira da Rosa, farmer, and Maria Theresa, housewife. Both from
> this village. (It actually says that separately for each person which is a
> bit odd since they're not from different places. ) The paternal
> grandparents were Jose Pereira da Rosa and Maria Francisca. The maternal
> grandparents were Jose Rodrigues Maciel and Naria Theresa. The godparents
> were Jose Rodrigues Maciel, single, farmer, and Anna Theresa, single.
>
> This record is very nicely written out. My suggestion would be for you to
> spend time working it out using the list of genealogical words so that, in
> the future, when you get one of the many "horrible" records to decipher,
> you'll actually stand a decent chance of figuring out the record.
>
> Please note that I presented the information above in an order different
> from the record. For example, I listed the birthdate early on but it
> doesn't appear in the record until later. You don't need to know every
> single word to decipher these records, so just focus on the key words. Many
> of the words deal with the ceremonial aspects of the event which you may
> (or may not) find relevant based on your own religious views.
>
> Hope this is what you needed to know. However, as a disclaimer, don't take
> my word for it (I'm reading the record via a tiny iPhone screen). Verify
> the data for yourself.
>
> Gayle
>
>
>
> On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:10 AM, Susan Schoen 
> wrote:
>
> I never should have said that I had "most" of it figured out. Part of that
> was due to the excitement that I had found it (Eureka!) and the fact that I
> was in delirium @ 2:30 in the morning when I posted it. I stayed up until
> 4:30, but then opted to sleep on it & look with fresh eyes again this
> morning.
>
> I don't understand Portuguese, unfortunately. This handwriting is better
> than what most people have to work with, but I do much better with the
> words that are easy to decipher like the dates, because you already know
> which words that you are hunting for. I was looking over the list of
> "Portuguese Genealogy words" and found a few more like "solenemente" which
> at first looked like a series of squiggles. Of course, the ones that are
> the easiest to read are the ones that are repeated often, like "freguesia."
> I heard someone say that they typed out the words & put them into an
> on-line translator, but I'm sure that those things are pretty literal &
> would spit out most of my guesses. I hope to get better with practice.
>
> I was relieved to find the date & the familiar surnames & the term:
> "legítima", but humbly ask if anyone can give me anything else that they
> would be kind enough to translate.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-
> MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P197.html
>
> # 47, bottom right, continued on the next page
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 8:17 AM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy <
> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Susan,
>>
>> What have you figured out ? What are you still trying to decipher ?
>>
>> Gayle
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 13, 2016, at 2:34 AM, Susan Schoen 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you so much Gayle for the suggestion for checking the CITEM. I do
>> believe that I have found the correct Maria Teresa Maciel. The CITEM lists
>> the parents (Antonio Pereira Rosa & Maria Teresa) that are found in the
>> baptismal record. I think that I have most of it figured out, but there are
>> still some words that I haven't yet.
>>
>> # 47 on bottom right:
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-
>> SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P197.html
>>
>> continued on next page:
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-
>> SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P198.html
>>
>> & the tree from CITEM:
>>
>> http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/geneweb/gwd.exe?b=Matca&lang=pt
>> &m=A&i=16225&v=5&siblings=on¬es=on&bd=0&color=&t=H&after=&before=
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 11:03:45 AM UTC-7, good...@aol.com
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Susan,
>>>
>>> I see : Maria, daughter of Joao Sousa Maciel and Marianna da Gloria. She
>>> was born 10 Dec 1865. Paternal grandparents were Manuel Homem Silveira and
>>> Marianna Josefa. Maternal grandparents were Antonio (?) and Inacia Balbina.
>>> Note: I used modern spellings above in Sousa and Inacia. Also, Antonio's
>>> surname seems to disappear where the page bends inward.
>>>
>>> I checked C

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Cheri Mello]

It says 9 hours of the day. I believe day "dia" is used for a.m. whereas
night "noite" is used for p.m.  So if you saw "tres horas do noite," I
believe that would refer to 3 p.m. in the afternoon, not 3 a.m. A native
speaker should be able to confirm or not.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Susan Schoen]

Gayle,

Thank you for your help!
Yes, I know that this will be good practice & lucky that I found an easy
one for starters.


On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 12:50 PM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Susan,
>
> It says essentially: Maria was baptized on 3 Sep 1865 but born 21 Aug 1865
> at 9 o'clock (here's where my skills are deplete-am or pm ?) , daughter of
> Antonio Pereira da Rosa, farmer, and Maria Theresa, housewife. Both from
> this village. (It actually says that separately for each person which is a
> bit odd since they're not from different places. ) The paternal
> grandparents were Jose Pereira da Rosa and Maria Francisca. The maternal
> grandparents were Jose Rodrigues Maciel and Naria Theresa. The godparents
> were Jose Rodrigues Maciel, single, farmer, and Anna Theresa, single.
>
> This record is very nicely written out. My suggestion would be for you to
> spend time working it out using the list of genealogical words so that, in
> the future, when you get one of the many "horrible" records to decipher,
> you'll actually stand a decent chance of figuring out the record.
>
> Please note that I presented the information above in an order different
> from the record. For example, I listed the birthdate early on but it
> doesn't appear in the record until later. You don't need to know every
> single word to decipher these records, so just focus on the key words. Many
> of the words deal with the ceremonial aspects of the event which you may
> (or may not) find relevant based on your own religious views.
>
> Hope this is what you needed to know. However, as a disclaimer, don't take
> my word for it (I'm reading the record via a tiny iPhone screen). Verify
> the data for yourself.
>
> Gayle
>
>
>
> On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:10 AM, Susan Schoen 
> wrote:
>
> I never should have said that I had "most" of it figured out. Part of that
> was due to the excitement that I had found it (Eureka!) and the fact that I
> was in delirium @ 2:30 in the morning when I posted it. I stayed up until
> 4:30, but then opted to sleep on it & look with fresh eyes again this
> morning.
>
> I don't understand Portuguese, unfortunately. This handwriting is better
> than what most people have to work with, but I do much better with the
> words that are easy to decipher like the dates, because you already know
> which words that you are hunting for. I was looking over the list of
> "Portuguese Genealogy words" and found a few more like "solenemente" which
> at first looked like a series of squiggles. Of course, the ones that are
> the easiest to read are the ones that are repeated often, like "freguesia."
> I heard someone say that they typed out the words & put them into an
> on-line translator, but I'm sure that those things are pretty literal &
> would spit out most of my guesses. I hope to get better with practice.
>
> I was relieved to find the date & the familiar surnames & the term:
> "legítima", but humbly ask if anyone can give me anything else that they
> would be kind enough to translate.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-
> MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P197.html
>
> # 47, bottom right, continued on the next page
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 8:17 AM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy <
> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Susan,
>>
>> What have you figured out ? What are you still trying to decipher ?
>>
>> Gayle
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 13, 2016, at 2:34 AM, Susan Schoen 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you so much Gayle for the suggestion for checking the CITEM. I do
>> believe that I have found the correct Maria Teresa Maciel. The CITEM lists
>> the parents (Antonio Pereira Rosa & Maria Teresa) that are found in the
>> baptismal record. I think that I have most of it figured out, but there are
>> still some words that I haven't yet.
>>
>> # 47 on bottom right:
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-
>> SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P197.html
>>
>> continued on next page:
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-
>> SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P198.html
>>
>> & the tree from CITEM:
>>
>> http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/geneweb/gwd.exe?b=Matca&lang=pt
>> &m=A&i=16225&v=5&siblings=on¬es=on&bd=0&color=&t=H&after=&before=
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 11:03:45 AM UTC-7, good...@aol.com
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Susan,
>>>
>>> I see : Maria, daughter of Joao Sousa Maciel and Marianna da Gloria. She
>>> was born 10 Dec 1865. Paternal grandparents were Manuel Homem Silveira and
>>> Marianna Josefa. Maternal grandparents were Antonio (?) and Inacia Balbina.
>>> Note: I used modern spellings above in Sousa and Inacia. Also, Antonio's
>>> surname seems to disappear where the page bends inward.
>>>
>>> I checked CITCEM but it gives the birthdate in August, which baffles me.
>>> I am on my iPhone so I 

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Cheri Mello]

On the Azores GenWeb, I've got the 3 times periods, some key words posted
(a scaled down version from the word list), and a fairly clear record and a
line by line translation in English. Baptisms, marriages, and deaths.
https://goo.gl/ny1kGM

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

-- 
For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) 
mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.  Click in the blue area on the right 
that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
--- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Azores Genealogy" group.
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to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

['Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy]

Susan,

It says essentially: Maria was baptized on 3 Sep 1865 but born 21 Aug 1865 at 9 
o'clock (here's where my skills are deplete-am or pm ?) , daughter of Antonio 
Pereira da Rosa, farmer, and Maria Theresa, housewife. Both from this village. 
(It actually says that separately for each person which is a bit odd since 
they're not from different places. ) The paternal grandparents were Jose 
Pereira da Rosa and Maria Francisca. The maternal grandparents were Jose 
Rodrigues Maciel and Naria Theresa. The godparents were Jose Rodrigues Maciel, 
single, farmer, and Anna Theresa, single. 

This record is very nicely written out. My suggestion would be for you to spend 
time working it out using the list of genealogical words so that, in the 
future, when you get one of the many "horrible" records to decipher, you'll 
actually stand a decent chance of figuring out the record. 

Please note that I presented the information above in an order different from 
the record. For example, I listed the birthdate early on but it doesn't appear 
in the record until later. You don't need to know every single word to decipher 
these records, so just focus on the key words. Many of the words deal with the 
ceremonial aspects of the event which you may (or may not) find relevant based 
on your own religious views. 

Hope this is what you needed to know. However, as a disclaimer, don't take my 
word for it (I'm reading the record via a tiny iPhone screen). Verify the data 
for yourself. 

Gayle



> On Sep 13, 2016, at 11:10 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
> 
> I never should have said that I had "most" of it figured out. Part of that 
> was due to the excitement that I had found it (Eureka!) and the fact that I 
> was in delirium @ 2:30 in the morning when I posted it. I stayed up until 
> 4:30, but then opted to sleep on it & look with fresh eyes again this 
> morning. 
> 
> I don't understand Portuguese, unfortunately. This handwriting is better than 
> what most people have to work with, but I do much better with the words that 
> are easy to decipher like the dates, because you already know which words 
> that you are hunting for. I was looking over the list of "Portuguese 
> Genealogy words" and found a few more like "solenemente" which at first 
> looked like a series of squiggles. Of course, the ones that are the easiest 
> to read are the ones that are repeated often, like "freguesia." I heard 
> someone say that they typed out the words & put them into an on-line 
> translator, but I'm sure that those things are pretty literal & would spit 
> out most of my guesses. I hope to get better with practice.
> 
> I was relieved to find the date & the familiar surnames & the term: 
> "legítima", but humbly ask if anyone can give me anything else that they 
> would be kind enough to translate. 
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P197.html
> 
> # 47, bottom right, continued on the next page
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 8:17 AM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy 
>>  wrote:
>> Susan,
>> 
>> What have you figured out ? What are you still trying to decipher ?
>> 
>> Gayle
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 13, 2016, at 2:34 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thank you so much Gayle for the suggestion for checking the CITEM. I do 
>>> believe that I have found the correct Maria Teresa Maciel. The CITEM lists 
>>> the parents (Antonio Pereira Rosa & Maria Teresa) that are found in the 
>>> baptismal record. I think that I have most of it figured out, but there are 
>>> still some words that I haven't yet. 
>>> 
>>> # 47 on bottom right:
>>> 
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P197.html
>>> 
>>> continued on next page:
>>> 
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P198.html
>>> 
>>> & the tree from CITEM:
>>> 
>>> http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/geneweb/gwd.exe?b=Matca&lang=pt&m=A&i=16225&v=5&siblings=on¬es=on&bd=0&color=&t=H&after=&before=
>>> 
>>> Thank you
>>> 
 On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 11:03:45 AM UTC-7, good...@aol.com wrote:
 Susan,
 
 I see : Maria, daughter of Joao Sousa Maciel and Marianna da Gloria. She 
 was born 10 Dec 1865. Paternal grandparents were Manuel Homem Silveira and 
 Marianna Josefa. Maternal grandparents were Antonio (?) and Inacia 
 Balbina. Note: I used modern spellings above in Sousa and Inacia. Also, 
 Antonio's surname seems to disappear where the page bends inward. 
 
 I checked CITCEM but it gives the birthdate in August, which baffles me. I 
 am on my iPhone so I often am cautious on being too definitive when 
 viewing on a small screen, but, I really see December on the first line. 
 I'll go back and see if the birth was four months earlier with the baptism 
 much later. Not u

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Susan Schoen]

I never should have said that I had "most" of it figured out. Part of that
was due to the excitement that I had found it (Eureka!) and the fact that I
was in delirium @ 2:30 in the morning when I posted it. I stayed up until
4:30, but then opted to sleep on it & look with fresh eyes again this
morning.

I don't understand Portuguese, unfortunately. This handwriting is better
than what most people have to work with, but I do much better with the
words that are easy to decipher like the dates, because you already know
which words that you are hunting for. I was looking over the list of
"Portuguese Genealogy words" and found a few more like "solenemente" which
at first looked like a series of squiggles. Of course, the ones that are
the easiest to read are the ones that are repeated often, like "freguesia."
I heard someone say that they typed out the words & put them into an
on-line translator, but I'm sure that those things are pretty literal &
would spit out most of my guesses. I hope to get better with practice.

I was relieved to find the date & the familiar surnames & the term:
"legítima", but humbly ask if anyone can give me anything else that they
would be kind enough to translate.

Thanks in advance

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P197.html

# 47, bottom right, continued on the next page



On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 8:17 AM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Susan,
>
> What have you figured out ? What are you still trying to decipher ?
>
> Gayle
>
>
>
> On Sep 13, 2016, at 2:34 AM, Susan Schoen 
> wrote:
>
> Thank you so much Gayle for the suggestion for checking the CITEM. I do
> believe that I have found the correct Maria Teresa Maciel. The CITEM lists
> the parents (Antonio Pereira Rosa & Maria Teresa) that are found in the
> baptismal record. I think that I have most of it figured out, but there are
> still some words that I haven't yet.
>
> # 47 on bottom right:
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-
> MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P197.html
>
> continued on next page:
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-
> MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P198.html
>
> & the tree from CITEM:
>
> http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/geneweb/gwd.exe?b=Matca&lang=
> pt&m=A&i=16225&v=5&siblings=on¬es=on&bd=0&color=&t=H&after=&before=
>
> Thank you
>
> On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 11:03:45 AM UTC-7, good...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Susan,
>>
>> I see : Maria, daughter of Joao Sousa Maciel and Marianna da Gloria. She
>> was born 10 Dec 1865. Paternal grandparents were Manuel Homem Silveira and
>> Marianna Josefa. Maternal grandparents were Antonio (?) and Inacia Balbina.
>> Note: I used modern spellings above in Sousa and Inacia. Also, Antonio's
>> surname seems to disappear where the page bends inward.
>>
>> I checked CITCEM but it gives the birthdate in August, which baffles me.
>> I am on my iPhone so I often am cautious on being too definitive when
>> viewing on a small screen, but, I really see December on the first line.
>> I'll go back and see if the birth was four months earlier with the baptism
>> much later. Not unheard of, but more often than not just a few days apart.
>>
>> Gayle
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
>>
>> Maria Theresa Maciel is my father's maternal grandmother. I match many
>> people via GEDmatch on her line, but since I do not he the names of either
>> of her parents, it's hard for me to untangle who she might be connected to.
>>
>> Can someone please help me translate # 53 on the bottom left?
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-
>> PIEDADE-B-1865-1874/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874_item1/P38.html
>>
>> I can recognise the name *Maciel* on the 7th line down. I'm not sure if
>> this is our Maria Theresa Maciel because I can't decipher the date? I can
>> make out December & Octo for 1800's but the end of the line is blurry. It
>> is page 38 of 164 with the date range of 1864 to 1874, so it's in the
>> ballpark. Her birth year is estimated to be from 1865 to 1868 from census &
>> death record. One census stated August 1867, but don't know how accurate it
>> might be?  In my grandmother's family (who is the daughter of Maria Theresa
>> Maciel) all of the daughters were baptised Mary, but only the eldest was
>> called Mary, all of the rest were called by their middle name.
>>
>> We were always told that she was from Pico & judging by some of the trees
>> from the DNA matches that we share in common, Lajes do Pico is probable.
>> Other family names that show up frequently in the matching trees are
>> Pereira & Silveira. Maciel goes in & out.
>>
>> Thank you in advance!
>>
>> --
>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
>> http:

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

['Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy]

Susan,

What have you figured out ? What are you still trying to decipher ?

Gayle



> On Sep 13, 2016, at 2:34 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
> 
> Thank you so much Gayle for the suggestion for checking the CITEM. I do 
> believe that I have found the correct Maria Teresa Maciel. The CITEM lists 
> the parents (Antonio Pereira Rosa & Maria Teresa) that are found in the 
> baptismal record. I think that I have most of it figured out, but there are 
> still some words that I haven't yet. 
> 
> # 47 on bottom right:
> 
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P197.html
> 
> continued on next page:
> 
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P198.html
> 
> & the tree from CITEM:
> 
> http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/geneweb/gwd.exe?b=Matca&lang=pt&m=A&i=16225&v=5&siblings=on¬es=on&bd=0&color=&t=H&after=&before=
> 
> Thank you
> 
>> On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 11:03:45 AM UTC-7, good...@aol.com wrote:
>> Susan,
>> 
>> I see : Maria, daughter of Joao Sousa Maciel and Marianna da Gloria. She was 
>> born 10 Dec 1865. Paternal grandparents were Manuel Homem Silveira and 
>> Marianna Josefa. Maternal grandparents were Antonio (?) and Inacia Balbina. 
>> Note: I used modern spellings above in Sousa and Inacia. Also, Antonio's 
>> surname seems to disappear where the page bends inward. 
>> 
>> I checked CITCEM but it gives the birthdate in August, which baffles me. I 
>> am on my iPhone so I often am cautious on being too definitive when viewing 
>> on a small screen, but, I really see December on the first line. I'll go 
>> back and see if the birth was four months earlier with the baptism much 
>> later. Not unheard of, but more often than not just a few days apart. 
>> 
>> Gayle
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 6, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Maria Theresa Maciel is my father's maternal grandmother. I match many 
>>> people via GEDmatch on her line, but since I do not he the names of either 
>>> of her parents, it's hard for me to untangle who she might be connected to. 
>>> 
>>> Can someone please help me translate # 53 on the bottom left?
>>> 
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874_item1/P38.html
>>> 
>>> I can recognise the name Maciel on the 7th line down. I'm not sure if this 
>>> is our Maria Theresa Maciel because I can't decipher the date? I can make 
>>> out December & Octo for 1800's but the end of the line is blurry. It is 
>>> page 38 of 164 with the date range of 1864 to 1874, so it's in the 
>>> ballpark. Her birth year is estimated to be from 1865 to 1868 from census & 
>>> death record. One census stated August 1867, but don't know how accurate it 
>>> might be?  In my grandmother's family (who is the daughter of Maria Theresa 
>>> Maciel) all of the daughters were baptised Mary, but only the eldest was 
>>> called Mary, all of the rest were called by their middle name. 
>>> 
>>> We were always told that she was from Pico & judging by some of the trees 
>>> from the DNA matches that we share in common, Lajes do Pico is probable. 
>>> Other family names that show up frequently in the matching trees are 
>>> Pereira & Silveira. Maciel goes in & out. 
>>> 
>>> Thank you in advance!
>>> -- 
>>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
>>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right 
>>> that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
>>> --- 
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>>> "Azores Genealogy" group.
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>>> email to azores+un...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
> -- 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Susan Schoen]

Thank you so much Gayle for the suggestion for checking the CITEM. I do 
believe that I have found the correct Maria Teresa Maciel. The CITEM lists 
the parents (Antonio Pereira Rosa & Maria Teresa) that are found in the 
baptismal record. I think that I have most of it figured out, but there are 
still some words that I haven't yet. 

# 47 on bottom right:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P197.html

continued on next page:

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P198.html

& the tree from CITEM:

http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/geneweb/gwd.exe?b=Matca&lang=pt&m=A&i=16225&v=5&siblings=on¬es=on&bd=0&color=&t=H&after=&before=

Thank you

On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 11:03:45 AM UTC-7, good...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Susan,
>
> I see : Maria, daughter of Joao Sousa Maciel and Marianna da Gloria. She 
> was born 10 Dec 1865. Paternal grandparents were Manuel Homem Silveira and 
> Marianna Josefa. Maternal grandparents were Antonio (?) and Inacia Balbina. 
> Note: I used modern spellings above in Sousa and Inacia. Also, Antonio's 
> surname seems to disappear where the page bends inward. 
>
> I checked CITCEM but it gives the birthdate in August, which baffles me. I 
> am on my iPhone so I often am cautious on being too definitive when viewing 
> on a small screen, but, I really see December on the first line. I'll go 
> back and see if the birth was four months earlier with the baptism much 
> later. Not unheard of, but more often than not just a few days apart. 
>
> Gayle
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Susan Schoen  > wrote:
>
> Maria Theresa Maciel is my father's maternal grandmother. I match many 
> people via GEDmatch on her line, but since I do not he the names of either 
> of her parents, it's hard for me to untangle who she might be connected to. 
>
> Can someone please help me translate # 53 on the bottom left?
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874_item1/P38.html
>
> I can recognise the name *Maciel* on the 7th line down. I'm not sure if 
> this is our Maria Theresa Maciel because I can't decipher the date? I can 
> make out December & Octo for 1800's but the end of the line is blurry. It 
> is page 38 of 164 with the date range of 1864 to 1874, so it's in the 
> ballpark. Her birth year is estimated to be from 1865 to 1868 from census & 
> death record. One census stated August 1867, but don't know how accurate it 
> might be?  In my grandmother's family (who is the daughter of Maria Theresa 
> Maciel) all of the daughters were baptised Mary, but only the eldest was 
> called Mary, all of the rest were called by their middle name. 
>
> We were always told that she was from Pico & judging by some of the trees 
> from the DNA matches that we share in common, Lajes do Pico is probable. 
> Other family names that show up frequently in the matching trees are 
> Pereira & Silveira. Maciel goes in & out. 
>
> Thank you in advance!
>
> -- 
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the 
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my 
> membership."
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>
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Hughes Roselyn]

Gayle and Susan

I believe you are referring to the article that can be found at the
following link:
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~azrwgw/research-aids-m---z/naming-practices-of-the.html

On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 1:07 PM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Susan
>
> Ask Cheri is she (or Rosemarie or Kathy) can send you a link to an article
> on Naming Traditions among the Portuguese. It may help explain a lot about
> how different their surname patterns/choices are to ours. And, why you
> can't assume the names used in the islands are the same as the ones used
> here in the states. Also, how a single person could use many variations and
> alcunhas over their lifetime.
>
> Gayle
>
>
>
> On Sep 7, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Susan Schoen 
> wrote:
>
> Gayle,
>
> Thank you, that's good to know of course, but very disappointing. What a
> roller coaster! Maria Teresa Maciel is the only name that we have known her
> by, which is frustrating. I was excited when I found any reference to
> Maciel in the baptismal records & was hoping that since that was the name
> that she chose that it was a significant or close family connection. Also,
> when I looked in the family tree on CITEM that is connected to this Maria,
> there were a few other Maria Teresa's & Teresa's. The mother's name is
> listed as Maria Teresa.
>
> I wonder if our Maria Teresa really had a different name at birth, but
> then took on this name later because this Maria had died? There are several
> different dates suggested for her birth in the census records, from 1865 to
> 1868. I have seen an even wider range of dates for other people. Makes you
> wonder if some didn't even know what their actual date of birth was & just
> picked one that seemed likely, but forgot which one that they had picked
> before! Sigh. Back to the haystack.
>
> I'm going to try to get hard copies of her marriage & death certificates
> to see if there is any more info there.
>
> Thanks for your time & willingness to help.
>
> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:57 AM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy <
> azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Susan,
>>
>> The birthdate is 15 July 1865. She was baptized on the 17th of July. But,
>> according to CITCEM, this Maria died 1 July 1885 at age 19.
>>
>> Gayle
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 7, 2016, at 3:59 AM, Susan Schoen 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Thank you Gayle for the suggestion to check the CITCEM. I found the same
>> reference to her being born in August 1865 & actually found her on 17 July
>> 1865 in Sao Mateus on the CCA. I had seen people post screenshots from
>> GenWeb, but never knew how they generated them, so thanks. & thanks also to
>> Richard for helping translate too. The new one that I found is prettier &
>> should be easier. I also found a cousin who understands Portuguese, but I
>> know that the members of this forum have had more practice and are so much
>> better at deciphering the subtleties.
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-
>> SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P195.html
>> # 40 on the right
>>
>> I think that it's 17 July 1865? which is closest to the info found on
>> GenWeb:
>> http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/geneweb/gwd.exe?b=Matca&lang=en
>> &m=D&p=maria+teresa&n=jesus&oc=7&v=5&t=L&bd=0&color=
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>>
>>> Susan,
>>> Sorry, to tell you, but 60ish cMs is NOT a strong DNA match. The most
>>> two people can share in common is in the 3000 range. 60ish pales in
>>> comparison. You'll need a really good paper trail to make 60ish cMs pan
>>> out. Those matches need more work. Start with 100+ cMs or more to have
>>> success in working with DNA.
>>>
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
>>> Tainhas, Achada
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Susan Schoen 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 One is 60.4 with largest 22.6 & the other significant one is 59.9 &
 19.6 largest.
 & also match on 3 other kits that the same person administrates for his
 family, so I don't think that it's just a fluke.

 There is only one other match that is higher that was not a known
 relative. The one next higher is a 4th cousin @ 61.7 & 27.

 On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Cheri Mello 
 wrote:

> Define "Strong" matches. How many cMs and what's the longest block?
>
> --
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

['Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy]

I knew you had it ! 😀 

Thanks, Kathy. 

Gayle



> On Sep 7, 2016, at 7:11 PM, Kathy Cardoza  wrote:
> 
> Susan
> 
> The link that Gayle was referring to for Naming Practices is:  
> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~azrwgw/research-aids-m---z/naming-practices.html
> 
> Kathy
> 
>> On Sep 07, 2016, at 01:08 PM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy 
>>  wrote:
>> 
> 
>> Susan 
>> 
>> Ask Cheri is she (or Rosemarie or Kathy) can send you a link to an article 
>> on Naming Traditions among the Portuguese. It may help explain a lot about 
>> how different their surname patterns/choices are to ours. And, why you can't 
>> assume the names used in the islands are the same as the ones used here in 
>> the states. Also, how a single person could use many variations and alcunhas 
>> over their lifetime. 
>> 
>> Gayle
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 7, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Gayle,
>>> 
>>> Thank you, that's good to know of course, but very disappointing. What a 
>>> roller coaster! Maria Teresa Maciel is the only name that we have known her 
>>> by, which is frustrating. I was excited when I found any reference to 
>>> Maciel in the baptismal records & was hoping that since that was the name 
>>> that she chose that it was a significant or close family connection. Also, 
>>> when I looked in the family tree on CITEM that is connected to this Maria, 
>>> there were a few other Maria Teresa's & Teresa's. The mother's name is 
>>> listed as Maria Teresa. 
>>> 
>>> I wonder if our Maria Teresa really had a different name at birth, but then 
>>> took on this name later because this Maria had died? There are several 
>>> different dates suggested for her birth in the census records, from 1865 to 
>>> 1868. I have seen an even wider range of dates for other people. Makes you 
>>> wonder if some didn't even know what their actual date of birth was & just 
>>> picked one that seemed likely, but forgot which one that they had picked 
>>> before! Sigh. Back to the haystack.
>>> 
>>> I'm going to try to get hard copies of her marriage & death certificates to 
>>> see if there is any more info there. 
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your time & willingness to help.
>>> 
 On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:57 AM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy 
  wrote:
 Susan,
 
 The birthdate is 15 July 1865. She was baptized on the 17th of July. But, 
 according to CITCEM, this Maria died 1 July 1885 at age 19. 
 
 Gayle
 
 
 
> On Sep 7, 2016, at 3:59 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
> 
> Thank you Gayle for the suggestion to check the CITCEM. I found the same 
> reference to her being born in August 1865 & actually found her on 17 
> July 1865 in Sao Mateus on the CCA. I had seen people post screenshots 
> from GenWeb, but never knew how they generated them, so thanks. & thanks 
> also to Richard for helping translate too. The new one that I found is 
> prettier & should be easier. I also found a cousin who understands 
> Portuguese, but I know that the members of this forum have had more 
> practice and are so much better at deciphering the subtleties. 
> 
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P195.html
> # 40 on the right
> 
> I think that it's 17 July 1865? which is closest to the info found on 
> GenWeb:
> http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/geneweb/gwd.exe?b=Matca&lang=en&m=D&p=maria+teresa&n=jesus&oc=7&v=5&t=L&bd=0&color=
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>> Susan,
>> Sorry, to tell you, but 60ish cMs is NOT a strong DNA match. The most 
>> two people can share in common is in the 3000 range. 60ish pales in 
>> comparison. You'll need a really good paper trail to make 60ish cMs pan 
>> out. Those matches need more work. Start with 100+ cMs or more to have 
>> success in working with DNA.
>> 
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
>> Tainhas, Achada
>> 
>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Susan Schoen  
>>> wrote:
>>> One is 60.4 with largest 22.6 & the other significant one is 59.9 & 
>>> 19.6 largest. 
>>> & also match on 3 other kits that the same person administrates for his 
>>> family, so I don't think that it's just a fluke. 
>>> 
>>> There is only one other match that is higher that was not a known 
>>> relative. The one next higher is a 4th cousin @ 61.7 & 27. 
>>> 
 On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Cheri Mello  
 wrote:
 Define "Strong" matches. How many cMs and what's the longest block?
 
 
 
 -- 
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 http://groups.google.com/group/Azores.

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Kathy Cardoza]

Susan

The link that Gayle was referring to for Naming Practices is:  
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~azrwgw/research-aids-m---z/naming-practices.html

Kathy

On Sep 07, 2016, at 01:08 PM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy 
 wrote:

Susan 

Ask Cheri is she (or Rosemarie or Kathy) can send you a link to an article on 
Naming Traditions among the Portuguese. It may help explain a lot about how 
different their surname patterns/choices are to ours. And, why you can't assume 
the names used in the islands are the same as the ones used here in the states. 
Also, how a single person could use many variations and alcunhas over their 
lifetime. 

Gayle



On Sep 7, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:

Gayle,

Thank you, that's good to know of course, but very disappointing. What a roller 
coaster! Maria Teresa Maciel is the only name that we have known her by, which is 
frustrating. I was excited when I found any reference to Maciel in the baptismal 
records & was hoping that since that was the name that she chose that it was a 
significant or close family connection. Also, when I looked in the family tree on CITEM 
that is connected to this Maria, there were a few other Maria Teresa's & Teresa's. 
The mother's name is listed as Maria Teresa. 

I wonder if our Maria Teresa really had a different name at birth, but then took on 
this name later because this Maria had died? There are several different dates 
suggested for her birth in the census records, from 1865 to 1868. I have seen an 
even wider range of dates for other people. Makes you wonder if some didn't even 
know what their actual date of birth was & just picked one that seemed likely, 
but forgot which one that they had picked before! Sigh. Back to the haystack.

I'm going to try to get hard copies of her marriage & death certificates to see 
if there is any more info there. 

Thanks for your time & willingness to help.

On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:57 AM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy 
 wrote:
Susan,

The birthdate is 15 July 1865. She was baptized on the 17th of July. But, 
according to CITCEM, this Maria died 1 July 1885 at age 19. 

Gayle



On Sep 7, 2016, at 3:59 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:

Thank you Gayle for the suggestion to check the CITCEM. I found the same reference to her 
being born in August 1865 & actually found her on 17 July 1865 in Sao Mateus on the 
CCA. I had seen people post screenshots from GenWeb, but never knew how they generated 
them, so thanks. & thanks also to Richard for helping translate too. The new one that I 
found is prettier & should be easier. I also found a cousin who understands Portuguese, 
but I know that the members of this forum have had more practice and are so much better at 
deciphering the subtleties. 

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P195.html
# 40 on the right

I think that it's 17 July 1865? which is closest to the info found on GenWeb:
http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/geneweb/gwd.exe?b=Matca&lang=en&m=D&p=maria+teresa&n=jesus&oc=7&v=5&t=L&bd=0&color=


On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
Susan,
Sorry, to tell you, but 60ish cMs is NOT a strong DNA match. The most two 
people can share in common is in the 3000 range. 60ish pales in comparison. 
You'll need a really good paper trail to make 60ish cMs pan out. Those matches 
need more work. Start with 100+ cMs or more to have success in working with DNA.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, 
Achada

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
One is 60.4 with largest 22.6 & the other significant one is 59.9 & 19.6 
largest. 
& also match on 3 other kits that the same person administrates for his family, 
so I don't think that it's just a fluke. 

There is only one other match that is higher that was not a known relative. The one 
next higher is a 4th cousin @ 61.7 & 27. 

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
Define "Strong" matches. How many cMs and what's the longest block?

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

['Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy]

Susan 

Ask Cheri is she (or Rosemarie or Kathy) can send you a link to an article on 
Naming Traditions among the Portuguese. It may help explain a lot about how 
different their surname patterns/choices are to ours. And, why you can't assume 
the names used in the islands are the same as the ones used here in the states. 
Also, how a single person could use many variations and alcunhas over their 
lifetime. 

Gayle



> On Sep 7, 2016, at 10:19 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
> 
> Gayle,
> 
> Thank you, that's good to know of course, but very disappointing. What a 
> roller coaster! Maria Teresa Maciel is the only name that we have known her 
> by, which is frustrating. I was excited when I found any reference to Maciel 
> in the baptismal records & was hoping that since that was the name that she 
> chose that it was a significant or close family connection. Also, when I 
> looked in the family tree on CITEM that is connected to this Maria, there 
> were a few other Maria Teresa's & Teresa's. The mother's name is listed as 
> Maria Teresa. 
> 
> I wonder if our Maria Teresa really had a different name at birth, but then 
> took on this name later because this Maria had died? There are several 
> different dates suggested for her birth in the census records, from 1865 to 
> 1868. I have seen an even wider range of dates for other people. Makes you 
> wonder if some didn't even know what their actual date of birth was & just 
> picked one that seemed likely, but forgot which one that they had picked 
> before! Sigh. Back to the haystack.
> 
> I'm going to try to get hard copies of her marriage & death certificates to 
> see if there is any more info there. 
> 
> Thanks for your time & willingness to help.
> 
>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:57 AM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy 
>>  wrote:
>> Susan,
>> 
>> The birthdate is 15 July 1865. She was baptized on the 17th of July. But, 
>> according to CITCEM, this Maria died 1 July 1885 at age 19. 
>> 
>> Gayle
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 7, 2016, at 3:59 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thank you Gayle for the suggestion to check the CITCEM. I found the same 
>>> reference to her being born in August 1865 & actually found her on 17 July 
>>> 1865 in Sao Mateus on the CCA. I had seen people post screenshots from 
>>> GenWeb, but never knew how they generated them, so thanks. & thanks also to 
>>> Richard for helping translate too. The new one that I found is prettier & 
>>> should be easier. I also found a cousin who understands Portuguese, but I 
>>> know that the members of this forum have had more practice and are so much 
>>> better at deciphering the subtleties. 
>>> 
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P195.html
>>> # 40 on the right
>>> 
>>> I think that it's 17 July 1865? which is closest to the info found on 
>>> GenWeb:
>>> http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/geneweb/gwd.exe?b=Matca&lang=en&m=D&p=maria+teresa&n=jesus&oc=7&v=5&t=L&bd=0&color=
>>> 
>>> 
 On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
 Susan,
 Sorry, to tell you, but 60ish cMs is NOT a strong DNA match. The most two 
 people can share in common is in the 3000 range. 60ish pales in 
 comparison. You'll need a really good paper trail to make 60ish cMs pan 
 out. Those matches need more work. Start with 100+ cMs or more to have 
 success in working with DNA.
 
 Cheri Mello
 Listowner, Azores-Gen
 Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
 Tainhas, Achada
 
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Susan Schoen  
> wrote:
> One is 60.4 with largest 22.6 & the other significant one is 59.9 & 19.6 
> largest. 
> & also match on 3 other kits that the same person administrates for his 
> family, so I don't think that it's just a fluke. 
> 
> There is only one other match that is higher that was not a known 
> relative. The one next higher is a 4th cousin @ 61.7 & 27. 
> 
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>> Define "Strong" matches. How many cMs and what's the longest block?
>> 
>> -- 
>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the 
>> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my 
>> membership."
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Susan Schoen]

Gayle,

Thank you, that's good to know of course, but very disappointing. What a
roller coaster! Maria Teresa Maciel is the only name that we have known her
by, which is frustrating. I was excited when I found any reference to
Maciel in the baptismal records & was hoping that since that was the name
that she chose that it was a significant or close family connection. Also,
when I looked in the family tree on CITEM that is connected to this Maria,
there were a few other Maria Teresa's & Teresa's. The mother's name is
listed as Maria Teresa.

I wonder if our Maria Teresa really had a different name at birth, but then
took on this name later because this Maria had died? There are several
different dates suggested for her birth in the census records, from 1865 to
1868. I have seen an even wider range of dates for other people. Makes you
wonder if some didn't even know what their actual date of birth was & just
picked one that seemed likely, but forgot which one that they had picked
before! Sigh. Back to the haystack.

I'm going to try to get hard copies of her marriage & death certificates to
see if there is any more info there.

Thanks for your time & willingness to help.

On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:57 AM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Susan,
>
> The birthdate is 15 July 1865. She was baptized on the 17th of July. But,
> according to CITCEM, this Maria died 1 July 1885 at age 19.
>
> Gayle
>
>
>
> On Sep 7, 2016, at 3:59 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
>
> Thank you Gayle for the suggestion to check the CITCEM. I found the same
> reference to her being born in August 1865 & actually found her on 17 July
> 1865 in Sao Mateus on the CCA. I had seen people post screenshots from
> GenWeb, but never knew how they generated them, so thanks. & thanks also to
> Richard for helping translate too. The new one that I found is prettier &
> should be easier. I also found a cousin who understands Portuguese, but I
> know that the members of this forum have had more practice and are so much
> better at deciphering the subtleties.
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-
> SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P195.html
> # 40 on the right
>
> I think that it's 17 July 1865? which is closest to the info found on
> GenWeb:
> http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/geneweb/gwd.exe?b=Matca&lang=en
> &m=D&p=maria+teresa&n=jesus&oc=7&v=5&t=L&bd=0&color=
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>
>> Susan,
>> Sorry, to tell you, but 60ish cMs is NOT a strong DNA match. The most two
>> people can share in common is in the 3000 range. 60ish pales in comparison.
>> You'll need a really good paper trail to make 60ish cMs pan out. Those
>> matches need more work. Start with 100+ cMs or more to have success in
>> working with DNA.
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
>> Tainhas, Achada
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Susan Schoen 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> One is 60.4 with largest 22.6 & the other significant one is 59.9 & 19.6
>>> largest.
>>> & also match on 3 other kits that the same person administrates for his
>>> family, so I don't think that it's just a fluke.
>>>
>>> There is only one other match that is higher that was not a known
>>> relative. The one next higher is a 4th cousin @ 61.7 & 27.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>>>
 Define "Strong" matches. How many cMs and what's the longest block?

 --
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>>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

['Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy]

Susan,

The birthdate is 15 July 1865. She was baptized on the 17th of July. But, 
according to CITCEM, this Maria died 1 July 1885 at age 19. 

Gayle



> On Sep 7, 2016, at 3:59 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
> 
> Thank you Gayle for the suggestion to check the CITCEM. I found the same 
> reference to her being born in August 1865 & actually found her on 17 July 
> 1865 in Sao Mateus on the CCA. I had seen people post screenshots from 
> GenWeb, but never knew how they generated them, so thanks. & thanks also to 
> Richard for helping translate too. The new one that I found is prettier & 
> should be easier. I also found a cousin who understands Portuguese, but I 
> know that the members of this forum have had more practice and are so much 
> better at deciphering the subtleties. 
> 
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P195.html
> # 40 on the right
> 
> I think that it's 17 July 1865? which is closest to the info found on GenWeb:
> http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/geneweb/gwd.exe?b=Matca&lang=en&m=D&p=maria+teresa&n=jesus&oc=7&v=5&t=L&bd=0&color=
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>> Susan,
>> Sorry, to tell you, but 60ish cMs is NOT a strong DNA match. The most two 
>> people can share in common is in the 3000 range. 60ish pales in comparison. 
>> You'll need a really good paper trail to make 60ish cMs pan out. Those 
>> matches need more work. Start with 100+ cMs or more to have success in 
>> working with DNA.
>> 
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, 
>> Achada
>> 
>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Susan Schoen  
>>> wrote:
>>> One is 60.4 with largest 22.6 & the other significant one is 59.9 & 19.6 
>>> largest. 
>>> & also match on 3 other kits that the same person administrates for his 
>>> family, so I don't think that it's just a fluke. 
>>> 
>>> There is only one other match that is higher that was not a known relative. 
>>> The one next higher is a 4th cousin @ 61.7 & 27. 
>>> 
 On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
 Define "Strong" matches. How many cMs and what's the longest block?
 
 -- 
 For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
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 Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/azores.
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Susan Schoen]

Thank you Gayle for the suggestion to check the CITCEM. I found the same
reference to her being born in August 1865 & actually found her on 17 July
1865 in Sao Mateus on the CCA. I had seen people post screenshots from
GenWeb, but never knew how they generated them, so thanks. & thanks also to
Richard for helping translate too. The new one that I found is prettier &
should be easier. I also found a cousin who understands Portuguese, but I
know that the members of this forum have had more practice and are so much
better at deciphering the subtleties.

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-
MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867/PIC-MD-SAOMATEUS-B-1856-1867_item1/P195.html
# 40 on the right

I think that it's 17 July 1865? which is closest to the info found on
GenWeb:
http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/geneweb/gwd.exe?b=Matca&lang=
en&m=D&p=maria+teresa&n=jesus&oc=7&v=5&t=L&bd=0&color=


On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 8:33 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Susan,
> Sorry, to tell you, but 60ish cMs is NOT a strong DNA match. The most two
> people can share in common is in the 3000 range. 60ish pales in comparison.
> You'll need a really good paper trail to make 60ish cMs pan out. Those
> matches need more work. Start with 100+ cMs or more to have success in
> working with DNA.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Susan Schoen 
> wrote:
>
>> One is 60.4 with largest 22.6 & the other significant one is 59.9 & 19.6
>> largest.
>> & also match on 3 other kits that the same person administrates for his
>> family, so I don't think that it's just a fluke.
>>
>> There is only one other match that is higher that was not a known
>> relative. The one next higher is a 4th cousin @ 61.7 & 27.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>>
>>> Define "Strong" matches. How many cMs and what's the longest block?
>>>
>>> --
>>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
>>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
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>>
>> --
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>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Cheri Mello]

Susan,
Sorry, to tell you, but 60ish cMs is NOT a strong DNA match. The most two
people can share in common is in the 3000 range. 60ish pales in comparison.
You'll need a really good paper trail to make 60ish cMs pan out. Those
matches need more work. Start with 100+ cMs or more to have success in
working with DNA.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Susan Schoen 
wrote:

> One is 60.4 with largest 22.6 & the other significant one is 59.9 & 19.6
> largest.
> & also match on 3 other kits that the same person administrates for his
> family, so I don't think that it's just a fluke.
>
> There is only one other match that is higher that was not a known
> relative. The one next higher is a 4th cousin @ 61.7 & 27.
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:
>
>> Define "Strong" matches. How many cMs and what's the longest block?
>>
>> --
>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail
>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
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>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Susan Schoen]

Thank you so much for the offer of help!

This record is promising, but I'm not going to give up looking.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 5:13 PM, 'Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy <
azores@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Susan,
>
> CITCEM is a database created by the University of Minho. They transcribed
> parish records. Unfortunately, not all parish records have been done. And,
> there are mistakes because many records are in terrible shape. Also, humans
> inevitably make errors.
>
> The record you sent was from the CCA site which shows the actual parish
> records that CITCEM used. I tend to use both, which is why I pointed out
> the discrepancy.
>
> My grandmother's family came from Candelaria and Sao Mateus. If I can ever
> help, let me know. No guarantees. Especially, where Candelaria is concerned
> as its records are in terrible condition and there are missing ones for
> several time periods.
>
> Gayle
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2016, at 1:30 PM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
>
> Thank you for the translation & additional reference. I'm relatively new @
> this, may I ask what CITCEM is?
> I got most of my other info on Maria Theresa Maciel from the Sausalito CA
> census records online via Ancestry. The estimated birthdate varies, but the
> only one that included a month also included a year; Aug 1857, so I was
> hoping that was the most accurate.
> I don't know if the respondents arbitrarily told the interviewer different
> years, or if the interviewers guessed, or couldn't read their own notes, or
> whatever?
>
> On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 11:03:45 AM UTC-7, good...@aol.com wrote:
>>
>> Susan,
>>
>> I see : Maria, daughter of Joao Sousa Maciel and Marianna da Gloria. She
>> was born 10 Dec 1865. Paternal grandparents were Manuel Homem Silveira and
>> Marianna Josefa. Maternal grandparents were Antonio (?) and Inacia Balbina.
>> Note: I used modern spellings above in Sousa and Inacia. Also, Antonio's
>> surname seems to disappear where the page bends inward.
>>
>> I checked CITCEM but it gives the birthdate in August, which baffles me.
>> I am on my iPhone so I often am cautious on being too definitive when
>> viewing on a small screen, but, I really see December on the first line.
>> I'll go back and see if the birth was four months earlier with the baptism
>> much later. Not unheard of, but more often than not just a few days apart.
>>
>> Gayle
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 6, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
>>
>> Maria Theresa Maciel is my father's maternal grandmother. I match many
>> people via GEDmatch on her line, but since I do not he the names of either
>> of her parents, it's hard for me to untangle who she might be connected to.
>>
>> Can someone please help me translate # 53 on the bottom left?
>>
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-
>> PIEDADE-B-1865-1874/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874_item1/P38.html
>>
>> I can recognise the name *Maciel* on the 7th line down. I'm not sure if
>> this is our Maria Theresa Maciel because I can't decipher the date? I can
>> make out December & Octo for 1800's but the end of the line is blurry. It
>> is page 38 of 164 with the date range of 1864 to 1874, so it's in the
>> ballpark. Her birth year is estimated to be from 1865 to 1868 from census &
>> death record. One census stated August 1867, but don't know how accurate it
>> might be?  In my grandmother's family (who is the daughter of Maria Theresa
>> Maciel) all of the daughters were baptised Mary, but only the eldest was
>> called Mary, all of the rest were called by their middle name.
>>
>> We were always told that she was from Pico & judging by some of the trees
>> from the DNA matches that we share in common, Lajes do Pico is probable.
>> Other family names that show up frequently in the matching trees are
>> Pereira & Silveira. Maciel goes in & out.
>>
>> Thank you in advance!
>>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Susan Schoen]

One is 60.4 with largest 22.6 & the other significant one is 59.9 & 19.6
largest.
& also match on 3 other kits that the same person administrates for his
family, so I don't think that it's just a fluke.

There is only one other match that is higher that was not a known relative.
The one next higher is a 4th cousin @ 61.7 & 27.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 4:50 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Define "Strong" matches. How many cMs and what's the longest block?
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

['Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy]

Susan,

CITCEM is a database created by the University of Minho. They transcribed 
parish records. Unfortunately, not all parish records have been done. And, 
there are mistakes because many records are in terrible shape. Also, humans 
inevitably make errors. 

The record you sent was from the CCA site which shows the actual parish records 
that CITCEM used. I tend to use both, which is why I pointed out the 
discrepancy. 

My grandmother's family came from Candelaria and Sao Mateus. If I can ever 
help, let me know. No guarantees. Especially, where Candelaria is concerned as 
its records are in terrible condition and there are missing ones for several 
time periods. 

Gayle



> On Sep 6, 2016, at 1:30 PM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
> 
> Thank you for the translation & additional reference. I'm relatively new @ 
> this, may I ask what CITCEM is? 
> I got most of my other info on Maria Theresa Maciel from the Sausalito CA 
> census records online via Ancestry. The estimated birthdate varies, but the 
> only one that included a month also included a year; Aug 1857, so I was 
> hoping that was the most accurate. 
> I don't know if the respondents arbitrarily told the interviewer different 
> years, or if the interviewers guessed, or couldn't read their own notes, or 
> whatever?
> 
>> On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 11:03:45 AM UTC-7, good...@aol.com wrote:
>> Susan,
>> 
>> I see : Maria, daughter of Joao Sousa Maciel and Marianna da Gloria. She was 
>> born 10 Dec 1865. Paternal grandparents were Manuel Homem Silveira and 
>> Marianna Josefa. Maternal grandparents were Antonio (?) and Inacia Balbina. 
>> Note: I used modern spellings above in Sousa and Inacia. Also, Antonio's 
>> surname seems to disappear where the page bends inward. 
>> 
>> I checked CITCEM but it gives the birthdate in August, which baffles me. I 
>> am on my iPhone so I often am cautious on being too definitive when viewing 
>> on a small screen, but, I really see December on the first line. I'll go 
>> back and see if the birth was four months earlier with the baptism much 
>> later. Not unheard of, but more often than not just a few days apart. 
>> 
>> Gayle
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 6, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Maria Theresa Maciel is my father's maternal grandmother. I match many 
>>> people via GEDmatch on her line, but since I do not he the names of either 
>>> of her parents, it's hard for me to untangle who she might be connected to. 
>>> 
>>> Can someone please help me translate # 53 on the bottom left?
>>> 
>>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874_item1/P38.html
>>> 
>>> I can recognise the name Maciel on the 7th line down. I'm not sure if this 
>>> is our Maria Theresa Maciel because I can't decipher the date? I can make 
>>> out December & Octo for 1800's but the end of the line is blurry. It is 
>>> page 38 of 164 with the date range of 1864 to 1874, so it's in the 
>>> ballpark. Her birth year is estimated to be from 1865 to 1868 from census & 
>>> death record. One census stated August 1867, but don't know how accurate it 
>>> might be?  In my grandmother's family (who is the daughter of Maria Theresa 
>>> Maciel) all of the daughters were baptised Mary, but only the eldest was 
>>> called Mary, all of the rest were called by their middle name. 
>>> 
>>> We were always told that she was from Pico & judging by some of the trees 
>>> from the DNA matches that we share in common, Lajes do Pico is probable. 
>>> Other family names that show up frequently in the matching trees are 
>>> Pereira & Silveira. Maciel goes in & out. 
>>> 
>>> Thank you in advance!
>>> -- 
>>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
>>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Cheri Mello]

Define "Strong" matches. How many cMs and what's the longest block?

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Susan Schoen]

My GGF (father's mother's father) was from Sao Mateus, Pico. I have found
multiple GEDmatch connections & trees to support that. We were always told
that his wife, Maria Theresa Maciel was also from Pico, but have not found
her parents for sure, but I'm hopefully getting warmer. I'm lucky that a
couple of very STRONG matches on GEDmatch have extensive trees & I have
been trying to notice patterns in frequency of surnames. Lots of Pereira's
in many different combinations.

I know from study in epidemiology that just because something seems likely,
you still need preponderance of proof. I had a teacher that once said; "if
you hear hooves, think horses, not zebras" but I know in genealogy you
can't rule out giraffes. In other words, the most logical explanation is
often true, but not always.

My grandmother's family from my mother's side were both from Sao Jorge.
There is evidence via GEDmatch that some of my matches connect via both
sides, so there is intermarriage somewhere upstream & island hopping,
probably more than once. I have found a couple of names that link between
the two trees; Emerenciana Emilia Silveira Maciel (1860 - 1921) appears
both on trees on Sao Jorge & Pico. I also have an Antonio Quetano Mancebo
(1822 - 1894) who was born on Sao Jorge, but died on Pico, so that is a
trail worth exploring. I have Maciel, Silveira & Mancebo multiple times on
both sides, but I know that's like saying I have Smith, Jones & Johnson on
both sides.

If I have any connection to Terceira, that's news to me? Possibly a cousin
or two, but the preponderance is Pico & Sao Jorge. My mother's father, Joao
Rodrigues Crespo (1892 - 1966) was from Verdemilho, Aviero Portugal. I have
yet to untangle what matches I have from that side.

I'm new (just over a year) & appreciate any help. Thanks!

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> Hi Susan,
>
> 1) What documents in the U.S. have made you "hit upon" this particular
> area?
>
> 2) What research have you done on your immigrant ancestor?
>
> You can't just use GedMatch. You have to have a paper trail to go along
> with your genealogy. Once you get your island and freguesia then you'll
> need to compare the centiMorgans along with how far back in time you are.
> If you have a living parent, use their DNA.
>
> You have a lot of matches with Sao Jorge too. Some Terceira too, I think.
> Why are looking on Pico? The DNA is pointing to 3 different islands. You
> need a paper trail to go along with the DNA.
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Cheri Mello]

You need your immigrant's death record, obituary, her kids' baptism, her
naturalization (if applicable). The census records may be giving you some
immigration information so you can narrow down the years.
A good "how to" in Portuguese genealogy can be found here:
http://goo.gl/iSySGl

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Susan Schoen]

Thank you for the translation & additional reference. I'm relatively new @ 
this, may I ask what CITCEM is? 
I got most of my other info on Maria Theresa Maciel from the Sausalito CA 
census records online via Ancestry. The estimated birthdate varies, but the 
only one that included a month also included a year; Aug 1857, so I was 
hoping that was the most accurate. 
I don't know if the respondents arbitrarily told the interviewer different 
years, or if the interviewers guessed, or couldn't read their own notes, or 
whatever?

On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 11:03:45 AM UTC-7, good...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Susan,
>
> I see : Maria, daughter of Joao Sousa Maciel and Marianna da Gloria. She 
> was born 10 Dec 1865. Paternal grandparents were Manuel Homem Silveira and 
> Marianna Josefa. Maternal grandparents were Antonio (?) and Inacia Balbina. 
> Note: I used modern spellings above in Sousa and Inacia. Also, Antonio's 
> surname seems to disappear where the page bends inward. 
>
> I checked CITCEM but it gives the birthdate in August, which baffles me. I 
> am on my iPhone so I often am cautious on being too definitive when viewing 
> on a small screen, but, I really see December on the first line. I'll go 
> back and see if the birth was four months earlier with the baptism much 
> later. Not unheard of, but more often than not just a few days apart. 
>
> Gayle
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Susan Schoen  > wrote:
>
> Maria Theresa Maciel is my father's maternal grandmother. I match many 
> people via GEDmatch on her line, but since I do not he the names of either 
> of her parents, it's hard for me to untangle who she might be connected to. 
>
> Can someone please help me translate # 53 on the bottom left?
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874_item1/P38.html
>
> I can recognise the name *Maciel* on the 7th line down. I'm not sure if 
> this is our Maria Theresa Maciel because I can't decipher the date? I can 
> make out December & Octo for 1800's but the end of the line is blurry. It 
> is page 38 of 164 with the date range of 1864 to 1874, so it's in the 
> ballpark. Her birth year is estimated to be from 1865 to 1868 from census & 
> death record. One census stated August 1867, but don't know how accurate it 
> might be?  In my grandmother's family (who is the daughter of Maria Theresa 
> Maciel) all of the daughters were baptised Mary, but only the eldest was 
> called Mary, all of the rest were called by their middle name. 
>
> We were always told that she was from Pico & judging by some of the trees 
> from the DNA matches that we share in common, Lajes do Pico is probable. 
> Other family names that show up frequently in the matching trees are 
> Pereira & Silveira. Maciel goes in & out. 
>
> Thank you in advance!
>
> -- 
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the 
> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my 
> membership."
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>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Susan,

1) What documents in the U.S. have made you "hit upon" this particular area?

2) What research have you done on your immigrant ancestor?

You can't just use GedMatch. You have to have a paper trail to go along
with your genealogy. Once you get your island and freguesia then you'll
need to compare the centiMorgans along with how far back in time you are.
If you have a living parent, use their DNA.

You have a lot of matches with Sao Jorge too. Some Terceira too, I think.
Why are looking on Pico? The DNA is pointing to 3 different islands. You
need a paper trail to go along with the DNA.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Susan Schoen]

THANK YOU!

I think that I may have hit upon the area that she is from, because on the 
very next page, I found another Maria with a Maciel surname.

Maybe cousins? Now to figure out which one is my GGGM, if either?

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874_item1/P39.html

# 58 top right  14 lines down, the name Maciel

The name Manuel Ferreira Leal is also in the tree of someone who I match on 
GEDmatch

On Tuesday, September 6, 2016 at 11:08:29 AM UTC-7, good...@aol.com wrote:
>
> Susan,
>
> Baptism is in Dec. Birth is in November. Looks like the 17th but word is 
> sinking into the page bend. Looks like dezasete but the "sete" is 
> questionable. 
>
> Gayle
>
>
>
> On Sep 6, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Susan Schoen  > wrote:
>
> Maria Theresa Maciel is my father's maternal grandmother. I match many 
> people via GEDmatch on her line, but since I do not he the names of either 
> of her parents, it's hard for me to untangle who she might be connected to. 
>
> Can someone please help me translate # 53 on the bottom left?
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874_item1/P38.html
>
> I can recognise the name *Maciel* on the 7th line down. I'm not sure if 
> this is our Maria Theresa Maciel because I can't decipher the date? I can 
> make out December & Octo for 1800's but the end of the line is blurry. It 
> is page 38 of 164 with the date range of 1864 to 1874, so it's in the 
> ballpark. Her birth year is estimated to be from 1865 to 1868 from census & 
> death record. One census stated August 1867, but don't know how accurate it 
> might be?  In my grandmother's family (who is the daughter of Maria Theresa 
> Maciel) all of the daughters were baptised Mary, but only the eldest was 
> called Mary, all of the rest were called by their middle name. 
>
> We were always told that she was from Pico & judging by some of the trees 
> from the DNA matches that we share in common, Lajes do Pico is probable. 
> Other family names that show up frequently in the matching trees are 
> Pereira & Silveira. Maciel goes in & out. 
>
> Thank you in advance!
>
> -- 
> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the 
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> membership."
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>

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

[Richard Francis Pimentel]

The date is 2 Dec 1867 (You can get the year easier on the right side of the 
image). The father’s name looks like Joao de Sousa Maciel and the mother looks 
like Rosa Marianna da Gloria.

 

Rick

 

Richard Francis Pimentel

Epping, NH

 

Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and Ponta 
Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores

 

 

 

From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Susan Schoen
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2016 1:37 PM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for 
Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

 

Maria Theresa Maciel is my father's maternal grandmother. I match many people 
via GEDmatch on her line, but since I do not he the names of either of her 
parents, it's hard for me to untangle who she might be connected to. 

 

Can someone please help me translate # 53 on the bottom left?

 

 

 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874_item1/P38.html

 

I can recognise the name Maciel on the 7th line down. I'm not sure if this is 
our Maria Theresa Maciel because I can't decipher the date? I can make out 
December & Octo for 1800's but the end of the line is blurry. It is page 38 of 
164 with the date range of 1864 to 1874, so it's in the ballpark. Her birth 
year is estimated to be from 1865 to 1868 from census & death record. One 
census stated August 1867, but don't know how accurate it might be?  In my 
grandmother's family (who is the daughter of Maria Theresa Maciel) all of the 
daughters were baptised Mary, but only the eldest was called Mary, all of the 
rest were called by their middle name. 

 

We were always told that she was from Pico & judging by some of the trees from 
the DNA matches that we share in common, Lajes do Pico is probable. Other 
family names that show up frequently in the matching trees are Pereira & 
Silveira. Maciel goes in & out. 

 

Thank you in advance!

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

['Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy]

Susan,

Baptism is in Dec. Birth is in November. Looks like the 17th but word is 
sinking into the page bend. Looks like dezasete but the "sete" is questionable. 

Gayle



> On Sep 6, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
> 
> Maria Theresa Maciel is my father's maternal grandmother. I match many people 
> via GEDmatch on her line, but since I do not he the names of either of her 
> parents, it's hard for me to untangle who she might be connected to. 
> 
> Can someone please help me translate # 53 on the bottom left?
> 
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874_item1/P38.html
> 
> I can recognise the name Maciel on the 7th line down. I'm not sure if this is 
> our Maria Theresa Maciel because I can't decipher the date? I can make out 
> December & Octo for 1800's but the end of the line is blurry. It is page 38 
> of 164 with the date range of 1864 to 1874, so it's in the ballpark. Her 
> birth year is estimated to be from 1865 to 1868 from census & death record. 
> One census stated August 1867, but don't know how accurate it might be?  In 
> my grandmother's family (who is the daughter of Maria Theresa Maciel) all of 
> the daughters were baptised Mary, but only the eldest was called Mary, all of 
> the rest were called by their middle name. 
> 
> We were always told that she was from Pico & judging by some of the trees 
> from the DNA matches that we share in common, Lajes do Pico is probable. 
> Other family names that show up frequently in the matching trees are Pereira 
> & Silveira. Maciel goes in & out. 
> 
> Thank you in advance!
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with baptism translation please. searching for Maria Theresa Maciel, Pico

['Gayle Machado' via Azores Genealogy]

Susan,

I see : Maria, daughter of Joao Sousa Maciel and Marianna da Gloria. She was 
born 10 Dec 1865. Paternal grandparents were Manuel Homem Silveira and Marianna 
Josefa. Maternal grandparents were Antonio (?) and Inacia Balbina. Note: I used 
modern spellings above in Sousa and Inacia. Also, Antonio's surname seems to 
disappear where the page bends inward. 

I checked CITCEM but it gives the birthdate in August, which baffles me. I am 
on my iPhone so I often am cautious on being too definitive when viewing on a 
small screen, but, I really see December on the first line. I'll go back and 
see if the birth was four months earlier with the baptism much later. Not 
unheard of, but more often than not just a few days apart. 

Gayle



> On Sep 6, 2016, at 10:37 AM, Susan Schoen  wrote:
> 
> Maria Theresa Maciel is my father's maternal grandmother. I match many people 
> via GEDmatch on her line, but since I do not he the names of either of her 
> parents, it's hard for me to untangle who she might be connected to. 
> 
> Can someone please help me translate # 53 on the bottom left?
> 
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874/PIC-LJ-PIEDADE-B-1865-1874_item1/P38.html
> 
> I can recognise the name Maciel on the 7th line down. I'm not sure if this is 
> our Maria Theresa Maciel because I can't decipher the date? I can make out 
> December & Octo for 1800's but the end of the line is blurry. It is page 38 
> of 164 with the date range of 1864 to 1874, so it's in the ballpark. Her 
> birth year is estimated to be from 1865 to 1868 from census & death record. 
> One census stated August 1867, but don't know how accurate it might be?  In 
> my grandmother's family (who is the daughter of Maria Theresa Maciel) all of 
> the daughters were baptised Mary, but only the eldest was called Mary, all of 
> the rest were called by their middle name. 
> 
> We were always told that she was from Pico & judging by some of the trees 
> from the DNA matches that we share in common, Lajes do Pico is probable. 
> Other family names that show up frequently in the matching trees are Pereira 
> & Silveira. Maciel goes in & out. 
> 
> Thank you in advance!
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Baptism Translation

[Syndi T]

Cheri,

Thank you for the link. Now I have a better idea of how they were written. 

Syndi

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Baptism Translation

[Syndi T]

Thank you Hermano! That helps tremendously. I appreciate your help. 


Syndi

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Baptism Translation

[Cheri Mello]

Nevermind, it's Jose. I'm tired and need to go to bed.


On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 9:47 PM, Cheri Mello  wrote:

> And I'm reading Angelo.  That's why I don't want to translate any further
> unless I know WHO it's supposed to be.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 9:45 PM, Hermano C. Pires wrote:
>
>> Sindy T
>> Here is what I can make out
>> Jose, born  at 7:00pm on 20 December 1861, son of Jose de Medeiros Correa
>> (Correia), from Arrifes and Maria da Gloria, from Capelas, who were married
>> in Arrifes where they live (Rua dos Afonsos); baptised on 5 January
>> 1862 (at bottom of page it says that  Jose is the first of that name).
>> Paternal grandson of Jose de Medeiros Falcao and Teresa Francisca Eugenia
>> and maternal grandson of Francisco Correa (Correia)  Querido and Maria de
>> Jesus.
>> Godparents were his maternal grandparents who live at Rua do Teatro Novo,
>> Capelas.
>> Hope that helps.
>> Hermano
>>
>> > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 18:23:12 -0700
>> > From: syn...@gmail.com
>> > To: azores@googlegroups.com
>> > Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Baptism Translation
>>
>> >
>> > I believe this is my 2x great grandfathers baptism record from Ariffes,
>> Ponta Delgada, São Miguel. I've been staring at it for two days trying to
>> decipher the beautiful handwriting. I'm not familiar on what is written in
>> the baptism record so any help would be appreciated.
>> >
>> > It's the last line on the this page and it continues on the next page:
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-ARRIFES-B-1860-1869/SMG-PD-ARRIFES-B-1860-1869_item1/P94.html
>> >
>> > Mahalo,
>> > Syndi
>> >
>> > --
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>> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
>> membership."
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das
> Tainhas, Achada
>



-- 
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Baptism Translation

[Cheri Mello]

And I'm reading Angelo.  That's why I don't want to translate any further
unless I know WHO it's supposed to be.


On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 9:45 PM, Hermano C. Pires wrote:

> Sindy T
> Here is what I can make out
> Jose, born  at 7:00pm on 20 December 1861, son of Jose de Medeiros Correa
> (Correia), from Arrifes and Maria da Gloria, from Capelas, who were married
> in Arrifes where they live (Rua dos Afonsos); baptised on 5 January
> 1862 (at bottom of page it says that  Jose is the first of that name).
> Paternal grandson of Jose de Medeiros Falcao and Teresa Francisca Eugenia
> and maternal grandson of Francisco Correa (Correia)  Querido and Maria de
> Jesus.
> Godparents were his maternal grandparents who live at Rua do Teatro Novo,
> Capelas.
> Hope that helps.
> Hermano
>
> > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 18:23:12 -0700
> > From: syn...@gmail.com
> > To: azores@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Baptism Translation
>
> >
> > I believe this is my 2x great grandfathers baptism record from Ariffes,
> Ponta Delgada, São Miguel. I've been staring at it for two days trying to
> decipher the beautiful handwriting. I'm not familiar on what is written in
> the baptism record so any help would be appreciated.
> >
> > It's the last line on the this page and it continues on the next page:
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-ARRIFES-B-1860-1869/SMG-PD-ARRIFES-B-1860-1869_item1/P94.html
> >
> > Mahalo,
> > Syndi
> >
> > --
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> right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my
> membership."
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-- 
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Baptism Translation

[Cheri Mello]

Syndi,

The translators here don't want to translate a record that you are unsure
of.  You say it's your great-grandfather, but we don't need the
relationship.  The record doesn't state that this ancestor will have a
descendant named Syndi.  It's better if you post his NAME.

You can get some pointers on picking out baptismals here:
http://goo.gl/EuH5AX

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas,
Achada

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Baptism Translation

[Hermano C. Pires]

Sindy T
Here is what I can make out
Jose, born  at 7:00pm on 20 December 1861, son of Jose de Medeiros Correa 
(Correia), from Arrifes and Maria da Gloria, from Capelas, who were married in 
Arrifes where they live (Rua dos Afonsos); baptised on 5 January 1862 (at 
bottom of page it says that  Jose is the first of that name).
Paternal grandson of Jose de Medeiros Falcao and Teresa Francisca Eugenia and 
maternal grandson of Francisco Correa (Correia)  Querido and Maria de Jesus.
Godparents were his maternal grandparents who live at Rua do Teatro Novo, 
Capelas.
Hope that helps.
Hermano
 
> Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 18:23:12 -0700
> From: syn...@gmail.com
> To: azores@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help with Baptism Translation
> 
> I believe this is my 2x great grandfathers baptism record from Ariffes, Ponta 
> Delgada, São Miguel. I've been staring at it for two days trying to decipher 
> the beautiful handwriting. I'm not familiar on what is written in the baptism 
> record so any help would be appreciated. 
> 
> It's the last line on the this page and it continues on the next page:  
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-ARRIFES-B-1860-1869/SMG-PD-ARRIFES-B-1860-1869_item1/P94.html
> 
> Mahalo, 
> Syndi
> 
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