[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Burwell Lute Tutor Pieces
Your Scribd page has amazing treasures, Ernst!
Rob MacKillop
On Sun, 3 May 2020 at 10:19, <[1]fischer...@aon.at> wrote:
Dear lute friends,
As you most probably know, the "Burwell Lute Tutor" is a
manuscript
tutor for the baroque lute. The manuscript is Miss Mary Burwell's
(born
1654) copy of a method written by an Englishman (the name Mr.
John
Rogers has been suggested) who claims was himself a pupil of the
French
Ennemond Gaultier. The teacher corrected Miss Burwell's copy of
the
text and filled in the music examples. Both the "Burwell Lute
Tutor"
and "The Lute Made Easie" (by Thomas Mace, London, 1676) are two
very
authentic and surviving sources of its time teaching in great
detail
from A to Z how to play the baroque lute.
For teaching practice, the manuscript contains examples of
French-style
lute pieces, mainly fragments and sometimes individual bars only.
The
music examples are chaotic, with both teacher and pupil
contributing to
mistakes Some of the pieces are known, and concordances exist in
other
lute manuscripts, other pieces are new and unique.
Over the last months or so I tried playing nearly all pieces
after I
identified (if possible), corrected and completed majority of the
pieces from the Burwell Lute Tutor.
Please find here the link to my compilation of baroque lute
pieces from
the "Burwell Lute Tutor":
[1][2]http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
Please stay healthy and resist Corona!
Ernst Bernhard ("viennalute") from Vienna.
--
References
1. [3]http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
To get on or off this list see list information at
[4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:fischer...@aon.at
2. http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
3. http://www.apeptico.com/index-burwell_lute_tutor
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Lute recordings
That's an incredible contribution you've made, Bernhard! And free too. I urge people to listen to them. This is a great use of the Internet. Rob www.robmackillop.net > On 14 Jan 2018, at 16:59, Fischer BE (Aon) wrote: > > Dear lute friends, > > > Happy New Year to all of you from Vienna. > > > Following a suggestion made by my Scottish friend Rob I have uploaded > my baroque lute tracks into two audio channels at SoundCloud > ([1]www.soundcloud.com): [2]Viennalute 1 and [3]Viennalute 2. > > [4]Viennalute 1 presents my recordings of baroque lute pieces > originating from the historic Austria Habsburg territory and baroque > lute pieces from manuscripts and sources today preserved in Austria. > > [5]Viennalute 2 presents my recordings of baroque lute pieces composed > by German, French and English lute composers and baroque lute pieces > from manuscripts and sources today preserved in Germany, France and > Great Britain. > > Many of these pieces have not been played for the last three hundred > years or so, and have not been recorded. > > > Content of Viennalute 1 > > [6]Baroque Lute Pieces from Vienna MS 1078 (incl. Pieces by Giuseppe > Porsile (Borsilli) and Comte Bergen) > > [7]Pieces for baroque lute from the Vienna manuscript MS 17706 (incl. > pieces by DuFault, DuBut, Bertelli, Gallot) > > [8]Baroque lute pieces composed by Johann Gotthard Peyer from the > Vienna manuscript Ms Hs 18826 > > [9]Allemande and Sarabande in G Major from the Vienna MS 18761 (incl. > pieces my Mr. Weiss) > > [10]Pieces for Baroque Lute composed by Philipp Franz LeSage de Richee > (from Cabinet der Lauten) > > [11]Pieces for baroque lute in c minor composed by Joseph I and > Austrian Lute Master (incl. pieces by Joseph I and Wolff Jacob > Lauffensteiner, MS A.13.268 and Vienna MS 120) > > [12]Suite in E Flat Major from the Harrach Manuscript (MS 120, Austrian > State Archive, Vienna) (unknown composers) > > [13]Pieces for Baroque Lute by Jan Antonin Losy of Losinthal (1650 - > 1721) (pieces from Ms. 40620 / Pl-Kj MS. Mus 40620) > > [14]Pieces for Baroque Lute by Rochus Berhandtzky (pieces from > manuscripts Vienna MS 7763/92 and Kremsmünster MS L83a) > > [15]Suite in g minor and pieces from Matthias Sigismund Biechteler > (Harrach Manuscript MS 120, Vienna, Austria) > > > Content of Viennalute 2 > > [16]French Baroque Lute Pieces from various Masters and Sources (incl. > pieces by DuBut and Mouton) > > [17]Baroque Lute Pieces by Silvius Leopold Weiss (incl. an unknown > Prelude in Bb Major by Weiss) > > [18]Lute Pieces by Gaultier and Perrine from Pieces de Luth en Musique > (incl. pieces form Perrine’s book “Pieces de Luth en Musique avec des > Regles pour les toucher parfaitem sur le Luth, et sur le Clavessin”) > > [19]Pieces for baroque lute by J F Daube > > [20]Pieces for Baroque Lute by Esaia Reusner > > [21]Pieces in Sous Dorien mode from "La Rhetorique des Dieux" by Denis > Gaultier > > [22]Pieces for Baroque Lute from the Manuscript MS Egerton 2046 > (British Library, London) (All lute pieces are in Accords Nouveaux, > various composers incl. Jacques Gautier, John Lawrence, Merville, > various 17^th century country dances) > > [23]Pieces for Baroque Lute by Ernst Gottlieb Baron > > [24]Pieces for Baroque Lute by Jacques Bittner > > > The free of charge MP3 audios replace my annual CDs produced in > previous years. > > > Best wishes, > > Ernst Bernhard > > -- > > References > > 1. http://www.soundcloud.com/ > 2. https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944 > 3. https://soundcloud.com/user-731566193 > 4. https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944 > 5. https://soundcloud.com/user-731566193 > 6. > https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/baroque-lute-pieces-from-vienna-ms-1078 > 7. > https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/pieces-for-baroque-lute-from-the-vienna-manuscript-ms-17706 > 8. > https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/baroque-lute-pieces-composed-by-johann-gotthard-peyer-from-the-vienna-manuscript-ms-hs-18826 > 9. > https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/allemande-and-sarabande-in-g-major-from-the-vienna-ms-18761 > 10. https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/pieces-for-baroque-lute-by > 11. > https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/pieces-for-baroque-lute-in-c-minor-composed-by-joseph-i-and-an-austrial-lute-master-o > 12. > https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/suite-in-e-flat-major-from-the-harrach-manuscript-ms-120-austrian-state-archive-vienna > 13. > https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/pieces-for-baroque-lute-by-jan-antonin-losy-of-losinthal-1650-1721 > 14. > https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/pieces-for-baroque-lute-by-rochus-berhandtzky > 15. > https://soundcloud.com/user-32080944/sets/suite-in-g-minor-and-pieces-from-biechteler-harrach-manuscript-ms-120-vienna-austria > 16. > https://soundcloud.c
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Denis Gaultier
Didn't the English Lute Society have supplement devoted to a number of Ennemond's pieces in the old tuning? I vaguely recall reading through such a thing. Rob MacKillop On 10 Dec 2017 14:17, "G. C." <[1]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote: I see! Thanks for clearing that up. So, I imagine not being alone in looking forward to a scholarly collection/ edition of those 50 pieces, likely to be by Ennemond Gaultier in the old tuning. Best G. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:kalei...@gmail.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Harp Sharp etc, on an 11c lute
All you need is a pair of double-vision glasses... Rob > On 18 Oct 2017, at 19:27, howard posner wrote: > > >> On Oct 18, 2017, at 10:56 AM, Rob MacKillop wrote: >> >> I don't think you ever will recover, Howard. Send me your shrink bills. > > Not possible. In SSTS (Single-Stringing Trauma Syndrome) cases she insists > on cash up front. > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Harp Sharp etc, on an 11c lute
I don't think you ever will recover, Howard. Send me your shrink bills. I know what to do with them. Rob On 18 Oct 2017 18:51, "howard posner" <[1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote: > On Oct 18, 2017, at 1:15 AM, Rob MacKillop <[2]robmackil...@gmail.com> wrote: > > There is nothing "authentic" about a single-strung 11c lute, I am the >first to admit. The truth is, the older I get the harder it becomes to >swap between instruments. These days I mainly play guitar and theorbo >(single strung) and to suddenly pick up an 11 or 13 c lute is more of a >challenge than it used to be. So, I decided to make life a little >easier for myself. I'm sure this will upset some people It certainly upset me. I haven't been able to eat or sleep since I saw it. Now I'm tired and skinny. I'm hoping that with therapy I can get over it and resume a normal life. To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com 2. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Harp Sharp etc, on an 11c lute
Good post, Luca. Well, I've been "maniacally hip" for almost 30 years, and have a wealth of experience in Early Music, but also elsewhere. Each decade seems to teach us more about the fashions of our own time than about (for example) the 17th century. I've been through a lot of changes myself. To cut a long and fairly tedious story short, I'm now perfectly happy playing the way I do on this video. I know some people will like it, and some people won't. That's always the way of it, something I learned to accept many decades ago. Lang may yer lum reek! (Translation: Long may your chimney have smoke coming out of it! Something Wittgenstein forgot to add...) Rob > On 18 Oct 2017, at 11:37, Luca Manassero wrote: > > You're welcome, Rob. > > And I tend to believe you're right. After 12 years of pretty intensive > lute studies (renaissance in all its incarnations, baroque lute 11 and > 13 course, theorbo) I'm still maniacally hip, BUT (and it's a big "but") > I'm more and more fascinated by the music and its interpretation. > > I'm not sure whether it's a good idea to start an easy flame on this > list ;-) but I tend to believe that historically informed instruments > helped us a lot to stop playing lute music as a sort of strange sounding > Spanish guitar music. Once we learn it, then music is the real centrum. > > You certainly already know what the Austrian philosopher Wittgenstein > wrote (Umberto Eco ironically puts it in the mouth of Guglielmo da > Baskerville in his "The name of the rose"): "[you] must, so to speak, > throw away the ladder after [you have] climbed up it." > > Therefore, I really like your video :-) > > Luca > > Il 2017-10-18 10:15 Rob MacKillop ha scritto: > >> Thanks, Luca. >> There is nothing "authentic" about a single-strung 11c lute, I am the >> first to admit. The truth is, the older I get the harder it becomes to >> swap between instruments. These days I mainly play guitar and theorbo >> (single strung) and to suddenly pick up an 11 or 13 c lute is more of a >> challenge than it used to be. So, I decided to make life a little >> easier for myself. I'm sure this will upset some people, but all I want >> to do is play beautiful music as best I can. >> So, I hope people can just listen without making judgments over how >> inauthentic I am being. I've been down the - shall we say - purist >> road, and I love it when other people do that, as we all learn >> something from it. I am still an "historically-informed performer", >> though, and do my best to play with some sense of period style. >> I hope people are open enough to just listen to the beautiful music. >> And for what it's worth, I think the lute sounds beautiful too :-) >> Rob MacKillop >> >> On 18 October 2017 at 09:01, Luca Manassero <[1]l...@manassero.net> >> wrote: >> >> I'm a bit wondering about the single strung lute, but the music is >> really lovely. >> Over here (near Venice) it's the "real" first Fall day (it was very >> sunny 'til today) and this music just fits perfectly. >> Thank you, Rob >> Il 2017-10-18 01:09 Rob MacKillop ha scritto: >>> Might be of interest to some here: >>> [1][2]https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks >>> Rob MacKillop >>> >>> -- >>> >>> References >>> >>> 1. [3]https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks >>> >>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>> [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> -- >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. mailto:l...@manassero.net >> 2. https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks >> 3. https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks >> 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Harp Sharp etc, on an 11c lute
Thanks, Luca. There is nothing "authentic" about a single-strung 11c lute, I am the first to admit. The truth is, the older I get the harder it becomes to swap between instruments. These days I mainly play guitar and theorbo (single strung) and to suddenly pick up an 11 or 13 c lute is more of a challenge than it used to be. So, I decided to make life a little easier for myself. I'm sure this will upset some people, but all I want to do is play beautiful music as best I can. So, I hope people can just listen without making judgments over how inauthentic I am being. I've been down the - shall we say - purist road, and I love it when other people do that, as we all learn something from it. I am still an "historically-informed performer", though, and do my best to play with some sense of period style. I hope people are open enough to just listen to the beautiful music. And for what it's worth, I think the lute sounds beautiful too :-) Rob MacKillop On 18 October 2017 at 09:01, Luca Manassero <[1]l...@manassero.net> wrote: I'm a bit wondering about the single strung lute, but the music is really lovely. Over here (near Venice) it's the "real" first Fall day (it was very sunny 'til today) and this music just fits perfectly. Thank you, Rob Il 2017-10-18 01:09 Rob MacKillop ha scritto: > Might be of interest to some here: > [1][2]https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks > Rob MacKillop > > -- > > References > > 1. [3]https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- -- References 1. mailto:l...@manassero.net 2. https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks 3. https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Harp Sharp etc, on an 11c lute
Might be of interest to some here: [1]https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks Rob MacKillop -- References 1. https://youtu.be/zvD4lwPoAks To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Anthony Bailes paper in "The Lute" - and my holiday work
Excellent work, Andreas - and François-Pierre. I've played many pieces in accords nouveaux over the years, and it is helpful to have all the relevant data on one place. I can only encourage you to complete the English translation, with many thanks for what you have done so far. I'm a bit puzzled as to why the Coste version of Sor studies is there, for, as far as I recall, they are in standard guitar tuning. Rob MacKillop On 8 October 2017 at 19:18, Andreas Schlegel <[1]lute.cor...@sunrise.ch> wrote: Dear lutefriends, I saw in Anthony Bailes' wonderful article "The Bowe that is too much bent, breaketh"; The pitch of Miss Burwell's lute, reconsidered, in: The Lute LIV (2014), p. 1-35, some references to the website "[2]accordsnouveaux.ch" which was for years available only in German. This was a sign to work today on Francois-Pierre Goy's and my homepage and I'm happy to announce that a good part of the website is now available in English, too. During the last months, Joachim Lüdtke worked on translations and I had now the opportunity to put the texts online - and to make all the links... But at some pages, the graphical result is not convincig... and I can't say where the mistake comes in. The missed sites will come soon, I hope. There are some special topics: Horaz: [3]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/Horaz/Horaz.html Tunings / accords: [4]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/Judentanz/ Judentanz.html [5]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Thesis/Tunings%20Survey/ TuningsS.html [6]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Thesis/TuningsC/TuningsC.html La Rhétorique des Dieux: [7]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/RdD%20Intro/Bremen/Bremen.html [8]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/AS.html scroll down to "Publications" Bullen Reymes (F-P. Goy): [9]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Thesis/Writers/Writers.html Swiss sources: [10]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/SourcesCH/SourcesCH.html Benzenauer [11]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/AS.html scroll down to "Publications" The "Rodauer Lautenbuch" (D-Fschneider Ms 45) [12]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/RodauLB/RodauLB.html Guitar music: [13]http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/GuitarLit/GuitarLit.html Enjoy! And if you see errors, please give an advice. Thanks! Andreas -- To get on or off this list see list information at [14]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:lute.cor...@sunrise.ch 2. http://accordsnouveaux.ch/ 3. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/Horaz/Horaz.html 4. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/Judentanz/Judentanz.html 5. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Thesis/Tunings Survey/TuningsS.html 6. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Thesis/TuningsC/TuningsC.html 7. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/RdD Intro/Bremen/Bremen.html 8. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/AS.html 9. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Thesis/Writers/Writers.html 10. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/SourcesCH/SourcesCH.html 11. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/Authors/AS/AS.html 12. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/RodauLB/RodauLB.html 13. http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/en/GuitarLit/GuitarLit.html 14. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Menuett WeissSW 4,5 - Reusner ensemble works
Well spotted, Markus! Very interesting. And thanks for sharing. Rob > On 6 May 2017, at 00:00, Markus Lutz wrote: > > Hello, > in the new Lauteninfo of the Deutsche Lautengesellschaft, that is about to be > sent to the members, I publish about some things I found in the past months. > > The most exciting finding for me was the fact, that a Menuet by Silvius > Leopold Weiss turned out to be the intabulation of the final choir of an > opera by Domenico Scarlatti (Lieto giorno from Tolomeo e Alessandro). > > Also I found some more lute concordances to the Reusner ensemble works > (Taffel=Erlustigung) - as far as I knew there had been only one before (the > courante in a). > > 3. Courante in a = Erfreuliche Lautenlust, p. 13. > 29. Allemande in Bb = Neue Lautenfrüchte, S. 6, 2. St. (further Concordance > beside others: S-Klm21072 / 52v) > 30. Courant in Bb = S-Klm21068 / 12r and S-Klm21072 / 53r > 31. Saraband in Bb = autogr. addition in the Berlin exemplar of the > Lautenfrüchte, rear side of p. 7 > 33. Gigue in Bb = ebd., rear side of p. 6 > 56. Ballo in A = Aire PL-Wu2008 / 126, PL-Wu2009 / 183, Gavotte PL-Wn396 / > 240v > > Both scores I have set in musescore, which now (2.1) supports the bourdon > strings of lute instruments. > > You can see both scores online: > https://musescore.com/user/4275446/scores/3856566 (Weiss-Scarlatti) > https://musescore.com/user/4275446/scores/3857006 (Reusner) > > Best regards > Markus > > > > > > > -- > > Markus Lutz > Schulstraße 11 > > 88422 Bad Buchau > > Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 > Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 > Mail mar...@gmlutz.de > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing (corrected)
Sounds good to me. Rob www.robmackillop.net > On 8 Feb 2017, at 19:27, Mimmo Peruffo wrote: > > > Hello to anyone > I have made this video showing the last version of ther CD basses. > > [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKrNCEOfPVM > > there is a brief text in the video explaining the difference than the > first CD's types. > In the video I am a bit tired after this very stresses job. > Do not worry for that > Mimmo > > > > -- > > References > > 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKrNCEOfPVM > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
Not the best audio, but they do seem more gut-like to me. Rob On 7 February 2017 at 20:28, Mimmo Peruffo <[1]mperu...@aquilacorde.com> wrote: Here is: the not red bass string that is the 11 course is those made with more stiffer elastomer. the turns on the peg where just half. th sound has less sustain and it is powerfull and darker. I am very happy with it. The 5 course: the string of that course I am playing is made with a stiffer elastomer and have the same quantity of copper. I like it a lot: less metallic and indeed less stretchly, far more blanced. [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4s4CkDP580&feature=em-uploa d_owner well i stop here. I have flu now (thanks London!) it is a pity, I would like to start to do the batch soon. Mimmo To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:mperu...@aquilacorde.com 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4s4CkDP580&feature=em-upload_owner 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
That sounds encouraging! Rob On 7 Feb 2017 14:27, "Mimmo Peruffo" <[1]mperu...@aquilacorde.com> wrote: well guys, I think to have good news. I am doing, right now, the first few strings using a stiffer elasthomer and the same quantity of copper powder. I must admit that the process is even easy than before. The strings are absolutely no false and pretty even. The sound: darker and with less sustain, similar to those of the 2nd generation of the loaded gut strings (venices charged with copper powder). They stretch less and they are even more slippering on the nut- grooves. I am doing the Meanes now. I have a bit of difficoults but I am not worry at all. I will find the way soon. This is just a short report. I will do a short video for my own Youtube channel. ciao Mimmo To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:mperu...@aquilacorde.com 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
Second option for me. Rob MacKillop > On 3 Feb 2017, at 07:29, Mimmo Peruffo wrote: > > Thank you for the suggestion Arto. > Unfortunately i cannot do it > I already image how confuse the thing will be with the customers. > This mean the eford to mannage twice products and honestly I do not > like to add cofusion in the factory and with customers already stressed > by me! > > I should do a choice and in fast time: is it better a more elastic > string like these are (whith problems related to the fact that maybe > stretch tooo much and that the sound is too bright) or it is better to > switch to a less elastic plastic support with the advantage that it > stretch less, the sound is darker and with less sustain? > Hard to do the choice: both solutions are ok; i already tried the > second option that is similar to the loaded gut strings > Even Anthony Bailes suggested me the second option. > > Strings or not to strings? this is the question > > ah ah > (my poor english at work) > Ciao > Mimmo > > ps > which are your suggestion guys? > > > > -Messaggio originale- > From: Arto Wikla > Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:46 PM > To: Mimmo Peruffo ; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing > > Dear Mimmo, > > if you decide to make the loaded nylgut strings (CD) less elastic, I > hope (and wish and urge ;-) ) that you keep also the original elastic > version in your repertoire! They work exceptionally well on my Harz > arclute, great stuff. > > And big thanks for your invaluable work! > > Arto > >> On 02/02/17 14:03, Mimmo Peruffo wrote: >> Well, seeing this post I have the idea to switch to these stiffer > ones. >> at the end of the day they are closer to those loaded strings made of > gut. >> I will do some samples in advance. >> Mimmo > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- >
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing
Hi David, I'm hugely impressed with the new Aquila Loaded Nylgut - see their website for details. After three days they settled quickly into tuning, and I rarely have to tweak them. Good sound too. Rob MacKillop > On 1 Feb 2017, at 21:25, David Rastall wrote: > > It seems I am back playing Baroque lute once again, after rather a long > hiatus. It’s been long enough that I have forgotten some of the points of > conventional wisdom concerning stringing. I’m playing an 11c lute currently > strung with silver-wound basses and Pyramid nylon mids and trebles. I’m not > so much bothered by the sustain of the nylon strings, but if you folks can > refresh my memory: what is the best choice of basses to get a sustain which > is not downright thunky or chunky, but has shorter sustain than the > silver-wounds? > > David R > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: John Lawrence in Accords Nouveaux tuning
Wonderful stuff, Bernhard. His is a new name to me, and I like what I hear. The whole Accords Nouveaux is an interesting area, with some good, and some not so good pieces. I think Lawrence wrote some fine music, so thank you for bringing it to our attention. And well played too! Rob > On 5 Jan 2017, at 12:48, Fischer BE (Aon) wrote: > > Dear lute friends, > > I have completed my home amateur recordings of a suite in g minor composed > by Mr. John Lawrence. The four pieces are written in the lute tablature > manuscript MS Egerton 2046 (British Library, London). All pieces are in the > Accords Nouveaux ’Tuning Lawrence’ (g’,d’,b,g,d,A,G,F,Es,D,C) as it is named > in the manuscript (the manuscript dates from 1615 to 1635 and is known for > its famous renaissance lute pieces). > The four pieces are: A Ballat (https://youtu.be/L9aYxKsh9GU), a Coranto > (https://youtu.be/0r917fCRjaI), a Sarabande (https://youtu.be/HqJVrMH4mQo), > and a Pavane (https://youtu.be/iXbCMmhuv-E). > Between 1625 and 1634, John Lawrence has been a musician for the lutes and > voices at the English court of King Charles I in London. It is known that > Lawrence’s position in the ’Symphony’ at the court of King Charles I was the > treble lute, and his salary was £10. > I look forward to your comment and suggestions. > > Happy New Year from Vienna, > Bernhard. > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Falckenhagen variations
Magnificent playing, Chris, of a fine piece. I went back to the beginning after the end, to hear the "modern" technique, and it was quite a difference. I think you play the whole piece brilliantly. Looking at Falckenhagen's portrait, his thumb doesn't seem to be so far in front of his fingers, indeed it almost looks as if it is behind his index, but as it is so outstretched it is hard to say how out in front it would be when closer to the fingers. His whole hand, though, is definitely nearer the bridge than modern playing. I've found that gut strings necessitate this positioning. What kind of strings did you use? Rob MacKillop On 17 March 2015 at 00:47, Christopher Wilke <[1]chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: Hello all, A A I've posted a video of my performance of Adam Falckenhagen's variations on the chorale tune, "Wer nur den lieben Gott laesst walten." It's a pretty wild set, starting sedately, but quickly transitioning into rapid, twisting arpeggios and ending with a workout in crazy leaping basses at breakneck speed for the thumb. I begin the piece with "modern" baroque lute right hand technique (close to the rose; hand coming in at an angle across the strings; thumb just slightly in front of the index finger). At 0:28 seconds, on the repeat of the initial material, I abruptly move to a more "historical" thumb out position (close to the bridge; fingers very perpendicular to the strings; thumb held out strongly in front of the fingers). I believe it becomes a different instrument. The cadenza at the end is my own improvisation. Constructive comments welcome. The video is at: [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQUqfH2Va7M This is from my forthcoming album, "Desperate Doors." You still have a chance to back it, but time is almost up! [3]https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1600736048/desperate-doors-b aroque-lute-album Thanks! Chris Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer [4]www.christopherwilke.com To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQUqfH2Va7M 3. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1600736048/desperate-doors-baroque-lute-album 4. http://www.christopherwilke.com/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A message from our friend Grant Tomlinson
So awful. Heartfelt commiserations.A Rob MacKillop On 21 October 2014 14:29, BENJAMIN NARVEY <[1]luthi...@gmail.com> wrote: A A Dear All, A A I forward the following message from our friend Grant Tomlinson: A A Dear Benjamin, A A Just a quick note.AA I have finally figured out how to get into my A A email account from Kathmandu, and have been reading through all of the A A concerned messages from friends.AA Thanks so much for your email, it A A means a lot to hear from you.AA Could you put a post on Facebook for me A A to let the lute people know that I am safe and well?AA Stella, Paul and A A I were almost killed in the same avalanche that got Jan and the 3 A A French Canadians. I hope to be back in Vancouver by Nov. 1st, but this A A may change if the weather gets warmer (giving hope of finding Jan's A A body before winter truly sets in). A A Will be in touch with you later... A A Sincerely,AA Grant. A A -- A A [1][2]www.luthiste.com A A t [3]+33 (0) 6 71 79 98 98 A A -- References A A 1. [4]http://www.luthiste.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:luthi...@gmail.com 2. http://www.luthiste.com/ 3. tel:%2B33%20%280%29%206%2071%2079%2098%2098 4. http://www.luthiste.com/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Guts Again
I love my Damian Dlugolecki strings - best I've ever had. His website:A [1]http://www.damianstrings.com Rob On 8 August 2014 01:32, sterling price <[2]spiffys84...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote: A A Hi all-- A A Last night I gave a recital of baroque lute music, including a Weiss A A concerto with my group. Anyway, after months of preparing for this A A concert I have decided that I am tired of the strings on my lute and I A A want to try something different. It has Savarez and Pyramid on it now. A A I had a very bad experience on another lute with gut strings, but I A A want to try gut again with this lute. I am hoping to get some A A recommendations on types of gut to try on this lute. It is a 13 course A A Burkholzer. A A Thanks-- A A Sterling A A -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.damianstrings.com/ 2. mailto:spiffys84...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'enciclopedie - Du But
Thanks, Bernd. That could be it. Or not. My wife writes dictionaries for a living, and knows a lot about the D'Alembert-Diderot encyclopedia, so we were wondering about this piece by DuBut. Perhaps there is no connection at all. Rob www.robmackillop.net > On 21 May 2014, at 19:32, Bernd Haegemann wrote: > > It could perhaps refer to this book: > > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_grand_dictionaire_historique > > Or may be the piece itself was estimated as highly learned? > > B > >> On 21.05.2014 19:45, Rob MacKillop wrote: >> Any background info regarding the piece on page 145 of the Saizenay >> manuscript, entitled "L'enciclopedie Allemande de Du But"? I'm wondering >> which encyclopedia might be being referred to. >> My basic search with Google failed to bring up a French encyclopedia before >> D'Alembert. The closest I can find is a popular science book which became >> very popular in France, mid century: Pseudodoxia Epidemica by Thomas Browne, >> first published in English, and which refers to itself as an encyclopedia. >> But that might be way off target. >> >> Any ideas? >> >> Rob >> >> www.robmackillop.net >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[BAROQUE-LUTE] L'enciclopedie - Du But
Any background info regarding the piece on page 145 of the Saizenay manuscript, entitled "L'enciclopedie Allemande de Du But"? I'm wondering which encyclopedia might be being referred to. My basic search with Google failed to bring up a French encyclopedia before D'Alembert. The closest I can find is a popular science book which became very popular in France, mid century: Pseudodoxia Epidemica by Thomas Browne, first published in English, and which refers to itself as an encyclopedia. But that might be way off target. Any ideas? Rob www.robmackillop.net To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: New Recording
Well, I do like the sound you are making, and the basses sound good to my ears - very clear, and with little sustain, which is generally a good thing for open strings and moving bass lines. I do wonder though how thick the lowest strings must be, and what size of holes you must have in the bridge. Looking around the rest of your website, I'm astonished how much recording you have done. Although not a professional, your interpretations must carry some authenticity for how the many hundreds of good amateur lutenists played. I am perfectly content to sit with headphones on and listen to all this wonderful music through your performances. I do wish, however, you would consider joining SoundCloud, and using their player. I'm afraid your player does not work continuously on my iPad. It would be nice to just click Play once, then lie back and enjoy the beautiful sounds, music and playing. Rob www.robmackillop.net > On 5 May 2014, at 17:52, "stephen arndt" wrote: > > Thank you, Rob, for your kind words about my Dante work. I have revised it > extensively since the version I sent you a number of years ago and made > numerous improvements. > > I see that the title of the work got garbled because of the acute accent on > the "e." I'm sure everyone figured out it is "La rhetorique des dieux." > > The string length on my Andreas von Holst 11-course is 67.5 centimeters; the > strings are made by Damian Dlugolecki and tuned to A = 392. Andreas von Holst > thought that the pure gut basses sounded terrible. I think they needed a > little time to settle in, and now I think they sound good, but I shall let > you all judge for yourselves. Some of you may not like them. I use a .46 on > the top course, and it usually lasts three or four months. I haven't found > any other stringmaker whose strings last that long. > > As for pros and cons, the main advantage is simply the sound of gut. I think > that even with my amateur technique the sound is both warm and clear for the > most part. I find it difficult to maintain those qualities when the melody > dips down into a lower register, which it does often enough in "La > rhetorique," but that is probably more a consequence of my playing than of > the strings themselves. The main disadvantage is the instability of tuning. I > record on a Fostex and get 7 minutes and 13 seconds worth at 48 Hz. If I > don't get a good take in that time period (and I usually don't the first few > times), the instrument will probably have gone out of tune, and I shall have > to retune before the next take. I know that some people on the list perform > in public on gut strings. I play at my wife's church once a month and use the > New Nylgut strings for that. I can't imagine what a tuning nightmare playing > on gut would be. That's about all I can say on that topic. Thanks for > listening. > > -Original Message- From: Rob MacKillop > Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 11:21 AM > To: stephen arndt > Cc: baroque-lute mailing-list ; lute mailing list list > Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] New Recording > > I can highly recommend Stephen's translation of the Divine Comedy, as I've > enjoyed a private copy for a number of years. I'm really pleased to see it > available as an eBook, and will get a copy of that for my iPad. > > Stephen, it is great to listen to your performances with pure gut strings. > Can you tell us about your experience with them, pros and cons? And who made > them? What string length and pitch? Etc ;-) > > And thanks for recording the entire publication! Hearty congratulations for > getting through it! > > Rob > > www.robmackillop.net > >> On 5 May 2014, at 15:33, "stephen arndt" wrote: >> >> Dear Friends, >> >> I invite you to listen to my recording of Denis Gaultier's La >> rhA(c)torique des dieux on an Andreas von Holst 11-course lute strung >> entirely in pure gut (i.e., the basses are not gimped). Quite some time >> ago I recorded the first forty-three pieces and then put the project >> aside for well over a year owing to various reasons. Towards the end of >> last year I resumed it and recorded pieces forty-four to sixty-one but >> was very dissatisfied with my earlier recordings in terms of tempo and >> sound quality, so I redid them. I used the tablature available for free >> on Richard Civiol's site and took the Louis Pernot recordings as a >> model, arpeggiating chords where he did and attempting to imitate his >> ornaments. >> >> >> If you care to, you can listen to an individual piece by clicking on >> its title or to
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: New Recording
I can highly recommend Stephen's translation of the Divine Comedy, as I've enjoyed a private copy for a number of years. I'm really pleased to see it available as an eBook, and will get a copy of that for my iPad. Stephen, it is great to listen to your performances with pure gut strings. Can you tell us about your experience with them, pros and cons? And who made them? What string length and pitch? Etc ;-) And thanks for recording the entire publication! Hearty congratulations for getting through it! Rob www.robmackillop.net > On 5 May 2014, at 15:33, "stephen arndt" wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > I invite you to listen to my recording of Denis Gaultier's La > rhA(c)torique des dieux on an Andreas von Holst 11-course lute strung > entirely in pure gut (i.e., the basses are not gimped). Quite some time > ago I recorded the first forty-three pieces and then put the project > aside for well over a year owing to various reasons. Towards the end of > last year I resumed it and recorded pieces forty-four to sixty-one but > was very dissatisfied with my earlier recordings in terms of tempo and > sound quality, so I redid them. I used the tablature available for free > on Richard Civiol's site and took the Louis Pernot recordings as a > model, arpeggiating chords where he did and attempting to imitate his > ornaments. > > > If you care to, you can listen to an individual piece by clicking on > its title or to all pieces successively by using the playlist at the > bottom of the page here: > [1]http://www.verseandsong.com/song/baroque-lute-2/la-rhetorique-des-di > eux/. For those of you who do not know me, be forewarned: I am not a > professional musician, and this is strictly an amateur endeavor. > Nevertheless, I hope you will find it pleasant enough listening. Please > feel free to explore my website by using the expandable menu on the > left side of the page. > > > I hope you will forgive my including off-topic information on another > recent project of mine. I have revised my translation of Dante's Divine > Comedy in iambic pentameter and terza rima and now offer it as a Kindle > e-book. It is written in modern diction and normal syntax and strives > to remain highly faithful to the sense of the original. Moreover, it is > the only translation in the 400-year history of Dante translations into > English to employ perfect rhyme throughout. If you are interested, you > can find generous samples by clicking on the cover image at the > following Amazon pages: > > > The Inferno: [2]http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JQWNUXC > > The Purgatorio: [3]http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JRD2MPW > > The Paradsiso: [4]http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JS3B414 > > The whole Divine Comedy: [5]http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JST98MK > > Best regards to all, > > Stephen Arndt > > > > -- > > References > > 1. http://www.verseandsong.com/song/baroque-lute-2/la-rhetorique-des-dieux/ > 2. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JQWNUXC > 3. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JRD2MPW > 4. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JS3B414 > 5. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00JST98MK > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: My new "classical" baroque lute album
Great album. Great performance. Well done, Chris. Your best yet! Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] SoundCloud Recordings
Dear friends, I've taken advantage of the SoundCould music system to collect in one place many of my free mp3 files. Here you will find my performances of Bach's 2nd cello suite, lots of Balcarres, Wemyss, Panmure, etc lute music, baroque guitar music from Portugal, Spain and France, guittar music by Oswald and from the little-known Robert Ross publication, Fuenllana galore, oh, and other stuff - all free. The address: [1]https://soundcloud.com/robmackillop/sets You can Like and Share, should you feel so moved, and even embed, if that turns you on. You can even become a Follower :-) Some of these recordings date back a decade or more. I will be adding more from my archive (including some of Roman's Sarmaticae, etc) and will notify when. If the SoundCloud player does not upload properly, just Refresh your page. Sorry if you are reading this on more than one site... Regards, Rob MacKillop -- References 1. https://soundcloud.com/robmackillop/sets To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Lobkowicz collections, CZ
Sorry, it was the Goess mss I was thinking of... Rob On 8 May 2012 08:06, Markus Lutz <[1]mar...@gmlutz.de> wrote: As far as I know, there is none of them published by TREE edition. Albert (a copy of this mail also to you) published all of the Goess volumes, of the Leipzig library, some of Rostock, but none of the Prague mss. Best regards Markus On 08.05.2012 06:18, David Smith wrote: Take a look at Volume XXXII of the LSA. There is an article " JiAA(TM)A AeOEepalA!k, "Lutes in the Lobkowicz Collection, Nelahozeves Castle, Bohemia". Rob, do you know which manuscripts Tree edition did? I do not recognize them on the tree editions site. Regards David -Original Message- From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Rob MacKillop Sent: Monday, May 07, 2012 12:16 PM To: [4]theoj89...@aol.com Cc: [5]l...@cs.dartmouth.edu; [6]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Lobkowicz collections, CZ A A I think Tree Editions has published them all... A A Rob A A On 7 May 2012 20:13,<[1][7]theoj89...@aol.com> A wrote: A A A The Lobkowicz estate owns several A A A baroque lutes and several baroque lute manuscripts or books that are A A A on display A A A at the Lobkowicz Palace in Prague, Czech Republic. A A A [2][8]http://www.lobkowicz.cz/en/ A A A Are the lute books of any interest, A A A and if so, are copies anywhere available? Likewise, are there A A A technical A A A drawings of any of the lutes available? It is a very interesting A A A collection of A A A lutes and, apparently a few lute books, (as well as a baroque guitar A A A and at A A A least one baroque guitar book), but there is little specific A A A information given A A A at the Palace exhibit, and I could find no additional information A A A online. A A A -- A A A To get on or off this list see list information at A A A [3][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html A A -- References A A 1. mailto:[10]theoj89...@aol.com A A 2. [11]http://www.lobkowicz.cz/en/ A A 3. [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz SchulstraAYe 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel A 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax A 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail [13]mar...@gmlutz.de -- References 1. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 5. mailto:l...@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 7. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 8. http://www.lobkowicz.cz/en/ 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 10. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 11. http://www.lobkowicz.cz/en/ 12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 13. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Lobkowicz collections, CZ
I think Tree Editions has published them all... Rob On 7 May 2012 20:13, <[1]theoj89...@aol.com> wrote: The Lobkowicz estate owns several baroque lutes and several baroque lute manuscripts or books that are on display at the Lobkowicz Palace in Prague, Czech Republic. [2]http://www.lobkowicz.cz/en/ Are the lute books of any interest, and if so, are copies anywhere available? Likewise, are there technical drawings of any of the lutes available? It is a very interesting collection of lutes and, apparently a few lute books, (as well as a baroque guitar and at least one baroque guitar book), but there is little specific information given at the Palace exhibit, and I could find no additional information online. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:theoj89...@aol.com 2. http://www.lobkowicz.cz/en/ 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: What lutes for 17th century French music was: Ne Anthony Bailes CD
Will I be shot down in flames by suggesting you don't use Spotify? The thing is a massive rip off. The musician gets almost nothing for being on it. Lady Gaga had over a million plays on it, and received just over 100 dollars. Imagine what Anthony Bailes would receive... Many musicians are boycotting the site, including Bob Dylan, who doesn't need the money, but wants to support other artists. We all want something for free, but sometimes the cost is too high. I'm not talking about the income musicians get from CDs, which is very small in our lute world, but the record companies will not bother making any more lute recordings is even we as lute players do not support them. Sorry, Bill. I know you bought the disc, so full marks there. But I want others to think about using Spotify, what it entails. Sadly, I'm also on Spotify - I had no control over it, and didn't even know I was there until someone asked for a free score of pieces he was listening to me play on Spotify...and got annoyed at me when I said no. Rob MacKillop On 16 March 2012 11:31, William Samson <[1]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Hi Martyn, Go to [1][2]www.spotify.com where you can download the player onto your computer. There are then two options - you can go for the free version which has occasional ads between tracks, or the paid version that is ad-free. Being a Scotsman I put up with the ads! Best wishes, Bill From: Martyn Hodgson <[3]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> To: William Samson <[4]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Friday, 16 March 2012, 11:17 Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] What lutes for 17th century French music was: Ne Anthony Bailes CD Thanks Bill - how does one access spotify? rgds M--- On Fri, 16/3/12, William Samson <[5]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: From: William Samson <[6]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] What lutes for 17th century French music was: Ne Anthony Bailes CD To: "Martyn Hodgson" <[7]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> Date: Friday, 16 March, 2012, 10:38 I just found that this album can be listened to on Spotify if you have access to it. It's free to use in the UK, but I can't say how things are elsewhere. Bill From: Martyn Hodgson <[8]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> To: "[9]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[10]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Edward Martin <[11]e...@gamutstrings.com>; William Samson <[12]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> Sent: Friday, 16 March 2012, 9:04 Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] What lutes for 17th century French music was: Ne Anthony Bailes CD Hi Bill, This is indeed a fascinating subject (hence the change of heading). I am told variously that the 1722 Wenger has a string length of 76 or 77cm. It may at some stage have been converted (from a gallichon perhaps?) to a 13 course lute before the present manifestation as an 11 course instrument . Again see earlier editions of Lute News for more information/views. The preferred instruments at the time (ie converted early 16th cenury Italian lutes) generally had a string length of 68 +/-2cm. See Lute News 94, page 28 which outlines the principle sources of evidence for the size of lutes preferred in mid/late 17th century France). But bear in mind (as Lute News notes) "Of course, this is not to say that it is 'wrong' to play the music on such a large lute and, indeed, the French repertoire whilst being challenging for interpretation (precise phrasing, accent, articulation, mannerisms and the like), is much less demanding for the left hand and a large instrument is clearly quite possible: it's more a question of what the Old Ones themselves might have expected". Incidentally, I make no comment one way or the other on Anthony Bailes's performance. regards Martyn PS the CD of music played on this instrument which I reported as being out over a year ago in fact refers to a previous CD played on the same instrument. --- On Fri, 16/3/12, William Samson <[2][13]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: From: William Samson <[3][14]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk>Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Ne Anthony Bailes CDTo: "Martyn Hodgson" <[4][15]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk>, "[5][16]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" <[6][17]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>,"Edward Martin"
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Dubut and Jean Mercure
Didn't Bubut play with Yogi? Good typo, Ed! Rob www.robmackillop.net On 5 Dec 2011, at 19:35, Edward Martin wrote: > Does anyone have any biographical data on the 2 French baroque lute > composers Bubut and Mercure? Please note that there were 2 Mersures > - one was Mercure 'd Orleans, and the other Jean Mercure. I am > interested in Jean. > > Anay and all submissions are well appreciated, especially if the > information is in English! > > Thanks in advance, > > ed > > > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > voice: (218) 728-1202 > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A=392
Check out 'From the fair lavinian shore' from Balcarres - attributed elsewhere to John Wilson. Number 51: http://scottishlute.com/balcarres/ Rob On 1 December 2011 10:55, R. Mattes wrote: > On Wed, 30 Nov 2011 18:26:57 -0800, Nancy Carlin wrote >> One of the things that is really intersting about John Wilson is that >> he wrote a series of fantasties in all (many?) keys. > > In all keys, IIRC. And also some warmup exercises as well. > >> These re for English theorbo with the first string down an octave. I >> think Paul O'Dette recorded a few of them on a CD he made with >> Ellen Hargis. > > Really nice music., imho. Since he rarely uses the first string at all, it's > even playable on an archlute. Some pieces can be played on a theorbo as well, > the notes on the second string can be easily moved to the third string. > > Cheers, Ralf Mattes > > > -- > R. Mattes - > Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg > r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A=392
My 70.5 Burkholzer is perfectly content at 392, and so am I. Rob www.robmackillop.net On 29 Nov 2011, at 06:50, Edward Martin wrote: > Sterling, > > It is not a matter of if a baroque lute should be in 440, 415, 392, > or even lower, as it depends on many variables; most importantly, > as you noted, is the string length. The shorter the lute, the higher > the pitch. > > As gut has upper limits, I think lutes sound best when the pitch of > the treble is near the upper limit of what a gut treble can do. > > For instance, my 11-course lute is 67.5 cm, and f at 415 works quite > well. For my 70.5 cm Burkholtzer, it seems happiest when a = around > 405. A lute, such as the Edlinger at 76 cm, would be best at 392, or > even more likely lower than that.. > > In South Dakota, there is an 82 cm Edlinger baroque lute, and at that > length, "f" should be much lower than 392 (or, at 415, the treble > would be i Db, or C#). Some examples of the instruments required to > play, let's imagine, the trios of Radolt for 3 differently strung > baroque lutes, would have quite variable pitches. > > In our times, we seem to be stuck on the baroque lute pitches, > thinking that the treble is always f, but in shorter lutes it is > higher, and in longer lutes, lower, very similar to the renaissance > counterparts, where lutes seem to have been pitched anywhere between > bass lutes in C or D, tenor lutes in E , F, or G, alto lutes in a, > and soprano lutes in c or d, or higher. Anthony Biles has a > relatively new French baroque CD, in which he is using, I believe an > original lute, where the length is 78, and he explains he has it > strung a minor third below f. > > ed > > > > > At 10:18 PM 11/28/2011, sterling price wrote: >> Hi-After just playing it now, I like the basses but the 1st and >> 2nd courses could be higher tension of course so I think I will go that >> way. >> Just curious--how many of you are playing baroque lutes at A=392? I >> think it works quite well on a larger lute, but I'm not convinced it >> should be done on a smaller lute(ie below 69cm). My 70.5cm Burkholzer >> will stay at 415. >> >> -Sterling >> From: howard posner >> To: baroque lute list >> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 7:15 PM >> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: A=392 >> On Nov 28, 2011, at 5:15 PM, sterling price wrote: >>> My question is: should I >>> just tune the same 415 strings down or get a new set of strings for >>> 392? >> Yes. Those are pretty much the only two options. >>> Right now it is at 392 but I'm wondering if it might sound better >>> with new strings. Any thoughts? >> Do you like it at 392 now? >> -- >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> -- > > > > Edward Martin > 2817 East 2nd Street > Duluth, Minnesota 55812 > e-mail: e...@gamutstrings.com > voice: (218) 728-1202 > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1660298871&ref=name > http://www.myspace.com/edslute > http://magnatune.com/artists/edward_martin > > >
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Scottish Lute Recording Project - metadata added
Thanks to the resourceful David Smith, all the mp3 files now carry the metadata required by iTunes and other players. Should make filing, playlists, etc easier. Many thanks to David. Site link: [1]http://scottishlute.com/balcarres/ Rob MacKillop -- References 1. http://scottishlute.com/balcarres/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Balcarres
One week on and there are twenty pieces from the Balcarres manuscript to listen to: [1]http://scottishlute.com/balcarres/ I'm pleased to announce that Glasgow University has agreed to house the wav files for posterity, and for use by students and staff. This is exactly what I wanted, a sound archive for both research and entertainment. I'm impressed with the variety within these first twenty pieces. Check out the 'Celia' 'suite'. I can't make much of the last one, number 20. Sounds like a musical 'cut and paste' experiment. Rob MacKillop -- References 1. http://scottishlute.com/balcarres/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: D# Minor Suite
Yes, interesting piece, once I closed my eyes to get the image of your unmade bed out of sight... Rob www.robmackillop.net On 28 Oct 2011, at 08:31, sterling price wrote: > Hi all- > I just recorded a prelude and allemande from an anonymous lute > composer. Its in Eb minor so most of the basses are flat. The music > says Dis mol though. I got the music several years ago from this list > and there was an article with the music, but I lost the link. Does > anyone have more info about this suite? Its really nice music once you > get the lute tuned with flat basses. Also-sorry about the poor sound > quality-I used a Flip Video and it sounded ok til I uploaded it to You > Tube... > > [1]http://youtu.be/O3O5aRpASuQ > > --Sterling > > -- > > References > > 1. http://youtu.be/O3O5aRpASuQ > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Adew Dundee - Scottish Lute Video
I wonder why it called the HIGHEST tuning of the lute in Balcarres? Any theories? Rob www.robmackillop.net On 24 Oct 2011, at 20:22, Andreas Schlegel wrote: > Oh dear! You're right! > > Wemyss has edeff - and this tuning is called: > Ton de tierce par B [natural] (34-D-Us 132, S. 64); > Tuning Gautier (18-Pickering, Fol. 45); > accord nouveau par [natural] quarre (45-Mersenne 1636-I, S.91a); > B quare (20-S-N 1122, Fol. 1); > Pecard (38-CH-Zz 907, Fol. 18 und 21v); > sharp; The sharp tun uhich called gautirs tune (13-Wemyss, Fol. 26v); > The highest tuening of the lute (1-Balcarres, S. 216) > > And dedff is called: > Le ton rauissant (31-US-R 186, S. 55); > b�mol (38-CH-Zz 907, Fol. 6 etc.); > flat, flatt (13-Wemyss, Fol. 32v etc.); > flat tuning (26-GB-Ob E 411, Fol. 78) > > The third tuning with a name in Wemyss is dedfe: flat (13-Wemyss Fol. 39v) - > and it's not the same as dedff, of course. > > Sorry, I took Rob's terminology Harp Flat and Harp Sharp with Harp as > searching word in the tuning database... and the results of tuning and old > terminology are: > > fdeff: > ton de harpe de B [natural] et Ton de la harpe par [natural] (34-D-Us 132, S. > 58 und Fol. IVv) > Ton de la harpe par b dur (2-CH Bu 53, Fol. 19v) > harpway (36-Board, Fol. 32v) > The highest tuning of the lute with 1st string tuned up half a note > (1-Balcarres, S. 218 � so it's a variant of edeff) > > and fedff: > Ton de la Harpe par b mol, Ton de la harpe par b (34-D-Us 132, S. 66 und IVv) > Ton de la harpe par b mol (2-CH-Bu 53, Fol. 25v) > Harpe-way, Tuning flat-way or Lawrence (18-Pickering, Fol. 44) > > That was exactly the reason to take the Traficante system and not other > terms: There's no consistent use of the terminology of these tunings in old > times. But the Traficante system is really clear - and a practical help. > > Andreas > > > Am 24.10.2011 um 19:58 schrieb Mathias R�sel: > >> Erm, yes, and that's not what's in the Wemyss ms. The Wemyss ms. has edeff >> (sharp tuning) and dedff (flat tuning), ascribing them their respective >> names. >> >> Mathias >> >>> -Urspr�ngliche Nachricht- >>> Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im >>> Auftrag von Andreas Schlegel >>> Gesendet: Montag, 24. Oktober 2011 16:13 >>> An: ar...@student.matnat.uio.no >>> Cc: Rob MacKillop; baroque lute list >>> Betreff: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Adew Dundee - Scottish Lute Video >>> >>> You can also have a look on this page on the Accords nouveaux (at moment >> only >>> in German and partially in French): >>> http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/index.html >>> >>> The "Ton de la Harpe par b mol" is fedff in the Traficante-system (see >>> http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Accords/Accords.html) - with >>> 173 pieces in 11 sources The "Ton de la harpe par b dur" is fdeff - with >> 121 >>> pieces in 15 sources >>> see: >>> http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Accords/Accords_Darstellung >>> /Accords_Darstellung.html >>> >>> Scroll down to obtain a detailled list - and have then a look on the links >> on >>> http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/Abhandlung/Datenbank_PAN/Datenbank_ >>> PAN.html >>> >>> You can choose the >>> http://www.accordsnouveaux.ch/de/DownloadD/files/PAN_Acc_Ton_Source.p >>> df and the you know where the pieces can be found. >>> >>> Andreas >>> >>> >>> Am 24.10.2011 um 15:41 schrieb ar...@student.matnat.uio.no: >>> >>>>> >>>>>>> The original scores are in harp sharp or harp flat tunings, >>>>>> >>>>>> what exactly are these tunings? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Are >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> With a 10c lute in Renaissance tuning... >>>>> >>>>> Harp Sharp - tune the first string down to E, the second string down >>>>> to C >>>>> >>>>> Harp Flat - first string Eb, second string C >>>>> >>>>> Lots of music in these tunings! >>>> >>>> Thank you! >>>> >>>> >>>> Are >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > > > --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Adew Dundee - Scottish Lute Video
I think my arrangements would be legal (does anyone know for sure?) but I'll have to find them first! I was playing from memory...and I may have made bits up ;-) Rob www.robmackillop.net On 23 Oct 2011, at 08:44, David Smith wrote: > Thank you Rob. Please do not do anything that breaks your agreement. It > sounds like the right thing for me to do is contact the national library of > Scotland and see if I can order a copy. If your d major arrangements are > available legally that would be nice. > > Regards > David > > Sent from my iPad > > On Oct 23, 2011, at 12:30 AM, Rob MacKillop wrote: > >> Thanks, Ed. >> >> I've had a few requests for copies of the Wemyss manuscript. Rather than >> write the same letter to each individual, I'll just mention here my response: >> >> The original scores are in harp sharp or harp flat tunings, but I arranged >> them in open D Major tuning because at the time I was playing a lot of >> pieces from Balcarres in that tuning, and it saved me retuning during a gig. >> I have photocopies of the original mss, but must scan it and maybe make a >> PDF. But I have signed a form at the National Library of Scotland, saying I >> would not do such a thing, or even make photocopies. They know me well >> there, so I don't want to cross them. However, if you want my D Major tuning >> arrangements, I might be able to copy them. >> >> There is a large section of Balcarres in D Major. All the f strings become f >> sharp, with a c sharp on the 11th course. It is my favourite tuning for >> Scottish music. There are also some French mss which show this tuning, not a >> huge amount, but some. >> >> Rob >> >> www.robmackillop.net >> >> On 23 Oct 2011, at 03:44, Ed Durbrow wrote: >> >>> I really like the black and white visual. The playing is superb, as usual. >>> >>> On Oct 22, 2011, at 10:43 PM, Rob MacKillop wrote: >>> >>>> Today's offering, dedicated to my fellow Dundonian, Bill Samson. >>>> >>>> [1]http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/adew-dundee-scottish-lute-music (Nin >>>> g) >>>> >>>> or >>>> >>>> [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGKakTaYF1Y (YT) >>>> >>>> and three pieces from the Wemyss manuscript - something went wrong with >>>> the lighting for the 2nd and 3rd piece! Not intentional. >>>> >>>> [3]http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/scottish-lute-music-from-the-wemyss- >>>> ms (Ning) >>>> >>>> or >>>> >>>> [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldnMANjks_M (YT) >>>> >>>> Rob MacKillop, taking a trip down memory lane... >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> References >>>> >>>> 1. http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/adew-dundee-scottish-lute-music >>>> 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGKakTaYF1Y >>>> 3. http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/scottish-lute-music-from-the-wemyss-ms >>>> 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldnMANjks_M >>>> >>>> >>>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>> >>> >>> Ed Durbrow >>> Saitama, Japan >>> http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ >>> http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- > >
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Adew Dundee - Scottish Lute Video
Thanks, Ed. I've had a few requests for copies of the Wemyss manuscript. Rather than write the same letter to each individual, I'll just mention here my response: The original scores are in harp sharp or harp flat tunings, but I arranged them in open D Major tuning because at the time I was playing a lot of pieces from Balcarres in that tuning, and it saved me retuning during a gig. I have photocopies of the original mss, but must scan it and maybe make a PDF. But I have signed a form at the National Library of Scotland, saying I would not do such a thing, or even make photocopies. They know me well there, so I don't want to cross them. However, if you want my D Major tuning arrangements, I might be able to copy them. There is a large section of Balcarres in D Major. All the f strings become f sharp, with a c sharp on the 11th course. It is my favourite tuning for Scottish music. There are also some French mss which show this tuning, not a huge amount, but some. Rob www.robmackillop.net On 23 Oct 2011, at 03:44, Ed Durbrow wrote: > I really like the black and white visual. The playing is superb, as usual. > > On Oct 22, 2011, at 10:43 PM, Rob MacKillop wrote: > >> Today's offering, dedicated to my fellow Dundonian, Bill Samson. >> >> [1]http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/adew-dundee-scottish-lute-music (Nin >> g) >> >> or >> >> [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGKakTaYF1Y (YT) >> >> and three pieces from the Wemyss manuscript - something went wrong with >> the lighting for the 2nd and 3rd piece! Not intentional. >> >> [3]http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/scottish-lute-music-from-the-wemyss- >> ms (Ning) >> >> or >> >> [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldnMANjks_M (YT) >> >> Rob MacKillop, taking a trip down memory lane... >> >> -- >> >> References >> >> 1. http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/adew-dundee-scottish-lute-music >> 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGKakTaYF1Y >> 3. http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/scottish-lute-music-from-the-wemyss-ms >> 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldnMANjks_M >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ > http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > > --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Adew Dundee - Scottish Lute Video
Today's offering, dedicated to my fellow Dundonian, Bill Samson. [1]http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/adew-dundee-scottish-lute-music (Nin g) or [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGKakTaYF1Y (YT) and three pieces from the Wemyss manuscript - something went wrong with the lighting for the 2nd and 3rd piece! Not intentional. [3]http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/scottish-lute-music-from-the-wemyss- ms (Ning) or [4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldnMANjks_M (YT) Rob MacKillop, taking a trip down memory lane... -- References 1. http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/adew-dundee-scottish-lute-music 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGKakTaYF1Y 3. http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/scottish-lute-music-from-the-wemyss-ms 4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldnMANjks_M To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bocquet vids
Wash your mouth out, Dale! Have a listen to a banjo played with gut strings: [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w2yPvmmpzU Rob On 21 October 2011 20:40, Dale Young <[2]dyoung5...@wowway.com> wrote: and we do have those moveable frettes to assist in mediating the most egregious of out-tunation issues...until we can replace the offending string. I can no longer tolerate the banjo-esque timbre of nylon and over-spun bass strings, except in the hands of a very few exceptional players. Gut and only gut. Dale - Original Message - From: "wikla" <[3]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi> To: "Roman Turovsky" <[4]r.turov...@verizon.net> Cc: "BAROQUE-LUTE" <[5]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 3:19 PM Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bocquet vids Dear Roman, I have occasionally(?) "identified" "dodgy intonation" also by nylon (etc.) strings, not only by gut strung instruments. And also pure and enjoyable intonation by both! Intonation certainly is not a question about the string material, but - well - it is a question about the "intonator", the player! And you certainly should be able to fine tune your intonation better than equal temperament. Strong fingers and not too much string tension... ;-) Arto On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 12:19:14 -0400, "Roman Turovsky" wrote: However there is a occaional give-away: one can often identify gut by its dodgy intonation. To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - [7]www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1831 / Virus Database: 2092/4564 - Release Date: 10/20/11 -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w2yPvmmpzU 2. mailto:dyoung5...@wowway.com 3. mailto:wi...@cs.helsinki.fi 4. mailto:r.turov...@verizon.net 5. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 7. http://www.avg.com/
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Robert de Visee lute tombeau de DuBut
Andreas, I am pleased you like the sound. I really like the 'roundness' or 'camber' of the fretboard. It makes a big difference for the left hand. One of the best things about this lute is the shape and thickness of the neck. The back of the neck is flat at the first fret position, and curved at the high frets, with a gentle change as it goes up the neck. Difficult to put into words. But it is shaped beautifully. So, both sides of the neck and fingerboard are shaped. I am not sure if this can now be done with your lute. The Burkholzer shape is different to the Hoffman shape, so that will have an effect on the sound. And we decided on rosewood with ebony spacers for the bowl. I tuned to A = 392 as that is my favourite pitch for gut strings on baroque lutes. The string length is 705mm. All these things make a difference to the sound. I like the Burkholzer shape - it is easy to hold, and the lute is surprisingly light. You need to talk to a luthier... Cheers, Rob MacKillop www.robmackillop.net On 20 Oct 2011, at 21:14, Andreas Schroth wrote: > Thank You! It sounds as in my imagination a lute should sound, dark like from > a time far away. > It reminds me of Jakob Lindberg's restored original lute. I have a 13 course > after Hoffmann (which one I don't know right now) > by Nico van der Waals from around 1980. The sound is "silbrig" and the > fretboard is flat, not round like yours. > Does anybody have an idea who could change the instrument (fretboard and > "Your" sound) or is this anyhow a good idea? > > Andreas (Berlin, Germany) > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] La Conversation - de Visee
Another beautiful Allemande by Robert de Visee. Did he ever write a bad piece? I don't think so. [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI1hJ_tPQAw or on the ning site: [2]http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/la-conversation-by-robert-de-visee?x g_source=activity Rob MacKillop -- References 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI1hJ_tPQAw 2. http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/la-conversation-by-robert-de-visee?xg_source=activity To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Lute music by Robert de Visee
Here is the first video I've made with my new Malcolm Prior 13c [1]http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/tombeau-de-dubut-by-robert-de-visee Not strictly 13c repertoire, but close enough. And not a faultless performance, but I think you get the jist of it. Pinkie on bridge watchers - look away... Rob -- References 1. http://lutegroup.ning.com/video/tombeau-de-dubut-by-robert-de-visee To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss Tabs - fantasia in C
You will find it here: [1]http://jdf.luth.pagesperso-orange.fr/index.htm Rob -- References 1. http://jdf.luth.pagesperso-orange.fr/index.htm To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: RH technique?
Bill, The Weiss tablatures indicate the thumb as high as the third course... Rob On 7 October 2011 14:31, William Samson <[1]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Having come from renaissance lute with all its thumb/forefinger action on the treble strings, I'm finding that having my thumb on, say, the third course is making life difficult when it has to leap down to the tenth course, for example. I would think the answer is to do more with i,m and a on the high strings and keep the thumb primarily for the basses. My question is, "Is there a course beyond which the thumb should not venture in normal circumstances?" For example should the thumb only be used on the 5th, 6th and diapason courses? I would be interested to hear your views and experiences. Thanks, Bill -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:willsam...@yahoo.co.uk 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'Infidele
That's getting on the wide side, Sterling. Would you have a problem with Bar 4 of L'Infidele? I agree that close spacing is difficult. I don't know how people can play with a string band of less than 148, but they do. People find a way. Rob www.robmackillop.net On 4 Oct 2011, at 22:34, sterling price wrote: > The bridge spacing I use is 157mm and is based on a large Edlinger. > Whenever I play a lute with a spacing much smaller than this, I find it > very difficult to play. > > --Sterling > From: Rob MacKillop > To: BAROQUE-LUTE > Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 2:05 AM > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] L'Infidele > Enjoying exploring my new 13c, and slowly getting the feel for > right-hand string spacing and thumb placement. I'm determined not to > look at my right hand, just feel my way. So, I've been slowly growing > in confidence...until I read through Weiss' L'Infidele. > It's years since I listened to anyone play this suite, and it was a > great joy to start reading through the Entree: 'Hey, I can do this!'. I > read the Courante slowly, but thinking it a possibility I will one day > be able to play it up tempo. The Sarabande, like all Weiss Sarabandes, > is sublimely beautiful. The minuet lies under the fingers. So, I was > beginning to think this is a suite I can get my teeth into. Then I hit > the Musette... > Bar 4 demands the thumb on the 13th course, the index on the 5th and > (presumably) the ring finger on the 1st. The string band on my lute is > 153mm, and I have large hands. I should be able to do this, but is is > very hard. I can manage it, but, clearly, at a stretch. 153mm does not > seem excessive, and is pretty much bang in the middle of all surviving > 13c bridges, in other words an average size. Will practise of this > passage make my stretch longer? > Anyone else have problems with this passage? I seem (in desperation, > maybe) to recall someone arguing that originally the low A was up an > octave at the 6th course, and the 13th course was written in later. Any > info on that? > Rob MacKillop > [1]www.robmackillop.net > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. http://www.robmackillop.net/ >
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'infidele
Is there a notable difference between the London and Dresden scores in how Weiss actually played? I see the London ms as what we might call 'Early Weiss' - 11c, 12c and 13c bass rider lutes, dramatic harmony, shorter dance movements, fingered bass notes on low courses - and Dresden as 'Late Weiss' - swan-knecked theorbo lute, no fingered bass note below the 8th course, more cohesion (less drama), more complex modulations, longer, more developed galanterien. Is this how most of us see it, and if so, are there other indicators of the development of Weiss's technique? Although I have played an 11c lute before, I saved Weiss for when I had a 13c. The amount of music he left us is overwhelming. What a treasure! Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'Infidele
Robert Barto uses a string band of 152mm, no real difference to my 153mm, so I have nothing to complain about. Just get on with it, MacKillop! Rob www.robmackillop.net On 4 Oct 2011, at 14:06, William Samson wrote: > At a quick glance I'd say that the median is about 146mm. > > I'd love to see similar figures for 11c lutes. I once heard an eminent > maker say that they tended to be more widely spaced than the first 11 > courses of a 13 course lute, and it would be nice to see that confirmed > (or not) with hard evidence. > > Incidentally, Diana Poulton had small hands, and she always played with > her little finger on the bridge. > > Bill > From: Rob MacKillop > To: William Samson > Cc: Martyn Hodgson ; BAROQUE-LUTE > > Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2011, 12:44 > Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'Infidele > Thanks, Bill. That's it. To which Malcolm added a few more, including > the bizarre c.160mm on the small Berr, the smallest lute but with the > largest string band. > Thanks to all the advice on different approaches to managing these > stretches. I'll give them all a go. > Rob > www.robmackillop.net > On 4 Oct 2011, at 12:02, William Samson <[1]willsam...@yahoo.co.uk> > wrote: >> Hi Martyn, >> I believe I've found David's stuff on string spacings in the > archive: >> >> > [1][2]http://www.mail-archive.com/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg19722.html >> >> Best regards, >> Bill >> From: Martyn Hodgson <[3]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> >> To: BAROQUE-LUTE <[4]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Rob MacKillop >> <[5]robmackil...@gmail.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2011, 10:25 >> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'Infidele >> Dear Rob, >> It is a stretch but I do think the low A (ie 13th) is meant: the > BL >> MS >> is very clear and there are no signs of an a on the 6th course > being >> altered to a 6 (as we sometimes find elsewhere). >> I think there are two factors here: >> 1. Clearly much depends on how one disposes the hand: to play such >> extensions I move the thumb closer to the bridge (ie behind the >> plucking position of the fingers) and I find this allows the first >> and >> 13th to be plucked simultaneously. >> 2. The other thing is that I'm not quite sure if a string band of >> 153mm >> isn't a bit too wide for a 13 course instrument. The JC Hoffmann >> (1730) string band is 140mm (both the Museum and Stephen Murphy's >> drawings) and my own instrument is 145mm (based on an average >> inter-course seperation of 12mm). As pointed out in a FoMRHI paper >> several years ago, there is some evidence that inter-course >> seperation >> reduced with the advent of the additional two bass courses (eg the >> earlier 11 course JC Hoffmann of 1716 has an average inter-course >> seperation of around 13mm) but I agree that some of the later > large >> theorboed German lutes exhibit quite large inter-course > seperation. >> However Weiss seems to have written for the 13th course instrument >> with >> a single pegbox (with treble and bass riders) as the 1730 Hoffmann > as >> witnessed by stopping basses below course 8 and not the late > 'galant' >> type of 13th course lute. Incidentally, Baron (1727) particularly >> singles out JC Hoffmann for making instruments which fit the hand: > in >> DA Smith's translation 'He [JCH] also knows how to place the > courses >> and strings at the proper distances so that his lutes can be >> manipulated very easily'. >> Finally, could you remind me of the paper /research source which >> analysis the sizes of 13th course bridges and suggests an average > of >> 153mm? >> regards, >> Martyn >> From: Rob MacKillop <[2][6]robmackil...@gmail.com> >> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] L'Infidele >> To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" <[3][7]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> >> Date: Tuesday, 4 October, 2011, 9:05 >> Enjoying exploring my new 13c, and slowly getting the feel for >> right-hand string spacing and thumb placement. I'm determined not > to >> look at my right hand, just feel my way. So, I've been slowly > growing >> in confidence...until I read through Weiss' L'Infidele. >> It's years since I listened to anyone play this suite, and it was > a >> great joy to start reading through the Entree: 'Hey, I can do > t
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'Infidele
Thanks, Bill. That's it. To which Malcolm added a few more, including the bizarre c.160mm on the small Berr, the smallest lute but with the largest string band. Thanks to all the advice on different approaches to managing these stretches. I'll give them all a go. Rob www.robmackillop.net On 4 Oct 2011, at 12:02, William Samson wrote: > Hi Martyn, > I believe I've found David's stuff on string spacings in the archive: > > [1]http://www.mail-archive.com/lute@cs.dartmouth.edu/msg19722.html > > Best regards, > Bill > From: Martyn Hodgson > To: BAROQUE-LUTE ; Rob MacKillop > > Sent: Tuesday, 4 October 2011, 10:25 > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'Infidele > Dear Rob, > It is a stretch but I do think the low A (ie 13th) is meant: the BL > MS > is very clear and there are no signs of an a on the 6th course being > altered to a 6 (as we sometimes find elsewhere). > I think there are two factors here: > 1. Clearly much depends on how one disposes the hand: to play such > extensions I move the thumb closer to the bridge (ie behind the > plucking position of the fingers) and I find this allows the first > and > 13th to be plucked simultaneously. > 2. The other thing is that I'm not quite sure if a string band of > 153mm > isn't a bit too wide for a 13 course instrument. The JC Hoffmann > (1730) string band is 140mm (both the Museum and Stephen Murphy's > drawings) and my own instrument is 145mm (based on an average > inter-course seperation of 12mm). As pointed out in a FoMRHI paper > several years ago, there is some evidence that inter-course > seperation > reduced with the advent of the additional two bass courses (eg the > earlier 11 course JC Hoffmann of 1716 has an average inter-course > seperation of around 13mm) but I agree that some of the later large > theorboed German lutes exhibit quite large inter-course seperation. > However Weiss seems to have written for the 13th course instrument > with > a single pegbox (with treble and bass riders) as the 1730 Hoffmann as > witnessed by stopping basses below course 8 and not the late 'galant' > type of 13th course lute. Incidentally, Baron (1727) particularly > singles out JC Hoffmann for making instruments which fit the hand: in > DA Smith's translation 'He [JCH] also knows how to place the courses > and strings at the proper distances so that his lutes can be > manipulated very easily'. > Finally, could you remind me of the paper /research source which > analysis the sizes of 13th course bridges and suggests an average of > 153mm? > regards, > Martyn > From: Rob MacKillop <[2]robmackil...@gmail.com> > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] L'Infidele > To: "BAROQUE-LUTE" <[3]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Date: Tuesday, 4 October, 2011, 9:05 > Enjoying exploring my new 13c, and slowly getting the feel for > right-hand string spacing and thumb placement. I'm determined not to > look at my right hand, just feel my way. So, I've been slowly growing > in confidence...until I read through Weiss' L'Infidele. > It's years since I listened to anyone play this suite, and it was a > great joy to start reading through the Entree: 'Hey, I can do this!'. > I > read the Courante slowly, but thinking it a possibility I will one > day > be able to play it up tempo. The Sarabande, like all Weiss > Sarabandes, > is sublimely beautiful. The minuet lies under the fingers. So, I was > beginning to think this is a suite I can get my teeth into. Then I > hit > the Musette... > Bar 4 demands the thumb on the 13th course, the index on the 5th and > (presumably) the ring finger on the 1st. The string band on my lute > is > 153mm, and I have large hands. I should be able to do this, but is is > very hard. I can manage it, but, clearly, at a stretch. 153mm does > not > seem excessive, and is pretty much bang in the middle of all > surviving > 13c bridges, in other words an average size. Will practise of this > passage make my stretch longer? > Anyone else have problems with this passage? I seem (in desperation, > maybe) to recall someone arguing that originally the low A was up an > octave at the 6th course, and the 13th course was written in later. > Any > info on that? > Rob MacKillop > www.robmackillop.net > To get on or off this list see list information at > [1][4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-ad
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: L'Infidele
I can play the 13th and 1st courses simultaneously without too much of a problem. I think the problem is having the index also on the 5th. Like Martin, I play closer to the bridge when the extremes are called for, and by and large I think I will manage it, but it isn't easy. Interesting that the bass is notated on the 6th course in Dresden, where a swan-knecked lute may have been used, and on the 13th in London, where a treble and bass rider might have been used. This connects with Martin's suggestion that the more modern swan lute tended to have a wider spacing. I seem to have a bit of both. I can't supply chapter and verse, Martin, for string spacings, but Malcolm and I did see a list from David Van Edwards of all (possibly) surviving bridges. I think 150 to 153 was the mean, with some as low as 140, others up to 160. I was more concerned about courses being too close together, which for me can be really annoying, so 153 seemed a good choice. If I can find that list, I'll post it here. As I say, I can manage it, but it isn't easy. I might go for the Dresden option, putting the bass up an octave. Rob To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] L'Infidele
Enjoying exploring my new 13c, and slowly getting the feel for right-hand string spacing and thumb placement. I'm determined not to look at my right hand, just feel my way. So, I've been slowly growing in confidence...until I read through Weiss' L'Infidele. It's years since I listened to anyone play this suite, and it was a great joy to start reading through the Entree: 'Hey, I can do this!'. I read the Courante slowly, but thinking it a possibility I will one day be able to play it up tempo. The Sarabande, like all Weiss Sarabandes, is sublimely beautiful. The minuet lies under the fingers. So, I was beginning to think this is a suite I can get my teeth into. Then I hit the Musette... Bar 4 demands the thumb on the 13th course, the index on the 5th and (presumably) the ring finger on the 1st. The string band on my lute is 153mm, and I have large hands. I should be able to do this, but is is very hard. I can manage it, but, clearly, at a stretch. 153mm does not seem excessive, and is pretty much bang in the middle of all surviving 13c bridges, in other words an average size. Will practise of this passage make my stretch longer? Anyone else have problems with this passage? I seem (in desperation, maybe) to recall someone arguing that originally the low A was up an octave at the 6th course, and the 13th course was written in later. Any info on that? Rob MacKillop www.robmackillop.net To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Scottish Lute and Early Guitar Society
Eloy Cruz in Mexico suggested we have a Friends Of Page - so here it is: [1]http://scottishluteandearlyguitarsociety.wordpress.com/friends/ Let me know if you wish to be added! We have also had a request from a a player on the English side of the border to take part. Yes, you don't have to live in Scotland to attend the meetings and become a member! All are welcome. Rob -- References 1. http://scottishluteandearlyguitarsociety.wordpress.com/friends/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Scottish Lute and Early Guitar Society
Thanks, Chris. I was just about to write to you. I think an Edinburgh International Lute Festival is a little way off, but I'll make a note ;-) Cheers, Rob On 2 October 2011 10:55, <[1]lute...@aol.com> wrote: Dear Rob This is fantastic news - well done! I'm putting a note in Lute News about it, and have put a link to the Lute Society website already. Next stop: the first Edinburgh international lute festival?? all the best Chris Goodwin In a message dated 02/10/2011 09:38:26 GMT Standard Time, [2]robmackil...@gmail.com writes: Yes, we have a new society and web site: [1][3]http://scottishluteandearlyguitarsociety.wordpress.com/ Just one meeting so far. Our principal aim is to bring people together and have them all playing, rather than a concert artist and audience situation. However, we hope to have workshops in the future. So if you are playing a concert in or near Scotland, and would like a trip to Edinburgh, we hope we can cover your expenses. This also extends to lute makers, as we have three amateur makers in our ranks, so a workshop might be a possibility. We also meet in the beautiful Historical Musical Instrument Collection at St Cecilia's Hall, which has some stunning instruments on display. Wish us well! Rob MacKillop PS Sorry for the cross-posting to all the usual groups -- References 1. [4]http://scottishluteandearlyguitarsociety.wordpress.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:lute...@aol.com 2. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com 3. http://scottishluteandearlyguitarsociety.wordpress.com/ 4. http://scottishluteandearlyguitarsociety.wordpress.com/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Scottish Lute and Early Guitar Society
Yes, we have a new society and web site: [1]http://scottishluteandearlyguitarsociety.wordpress.com/ Just one meeting so far. Our principal aim is to bring people together and have them all playing, rather than a concert artist and audience situation. However, we hope to have workshops in the future. So if you are playing a concert in or near Scotland, and would like a trip to Edinburgh, we hope we can cover your expenses. This also extends to lute makers, as we have three amateur makers in our ranks, so a workshop might be a possibility. We also meet in the beautiful Historical Musical Instrument Collection at St Cecilia's Hall, which has some stunning instruments on display. Wish us well! Rob MacKillop PS Sorry for the cross-posting to all the usual groups -- References 1. http://scottishluteandearlyguitarsociety.wordpress.com/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Hammering on and snapping off
Possibly the straccini (spelling?) of the theorbists in the late 1600s? The big question is whether slurs were used by Dowland and his contemporaries. In later baroque, you do get passages with a slur sign over many notes, especially in preludes. Rob www.robmackillop.net On 1 Sep 2011, at 12:29, William Samson wrote: > I'm curious to know when the playing of notes with left hand only first > appeared. Clearly it was used whenever there were graces to be played, > but what about written-out phrases? I have noticed there are slur-like > indications in later baroque lute music under phrases that lend > themselves to left-hand-only playing. Is that the intent? > > Sorry if this is baby stuff, but I'm not terribly familiar with the > later sources. > > Thanks, > > Bill Samson > > -- > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bouvier
I love D Major tuning. There is a big section in the Balcarres ms which uses it, and I think it is the most successful part. Rob www.robmackillop.net On 22 Aug 2011, at 08:17, William Samson wrote: > There are pieces by Bouvier in the Panmure 4 (En-9451) MS in D minor > tuning. There's another composer I haven't come across elsewhere > called Hautman - but the tuning he uses in Panmure 4 is D major. > > Bill > From: "mathias.roe...@t-online.de" > To: Baroque Lute Net > Sent: Monday, 22 August 2011, 8:00 > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Bouvier > Nicolas Bouvier is one of three composers who published lute music in > D-minor tuning for the first time in 1638. The others were Dubut in > Paris, and Pierre Gaultier in Rome. Wish I could play it better, with > more air and more like singing. Anyway, you'll get the idea ... - > enjoy! > [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ Allemande > [2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA Courante > To get on or off this list see list information at > [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwQoCrsItuQ > 2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGdtAxipXgA > 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Odp: Re: another portrait of S.L. Weiss?
Interesting point, Martyn. I don't have the picture to hand. How many strings or tuning pegs are shown? I still think the four-string gallichon of circa 90cms length would make a great baroque bass instrument. It's not an instrument I've ever seen associated with Weiss, but that means little. Rob On 11 July 2011 09:52, Martyn Hodgson <[1]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Good point Rob, but, if we're thinking of one of the pictures, I recall it seems to show a large lute with a single neck. Whilst this could, of course, be the engraver's own fancy it might suggest the performer is playing a gallichon (large continuo type).. Martyn --- On Mon, 11/7/11, Rob MacKillop <[2]robmackil...@gmail.com> wrote: From: Rob MacKillop <[3]robmackil...@gmail.com> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Odp: Re: another portrait of S.L. Weiss? To: [4]mar...@gmlutz.de Cc: "BAROQUE-LUTE" <[5]baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Date: Monday, 11 July, 2011, 9:33 I am well out of my depth here, so apologies, but are there not also a couple of paintings or engravings which might show Weiss at work? One is an opera setting, with a possible Weiss in the orchestral pit? The other is a small ensemble gathering, with a possible Weiss playing a long German theorbo (i.e. not a theorbo-lute)? Not exactly 'portraits', but worth mentioning, maybe? Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at [6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk 2. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com 3. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com 4. mailto:mar...@gmlutz.de 5. mailto:baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Weiss concerto
Wasn't that amazing? Made my day. Congratulations to Lucas and the gang. Does anyone know if other movements were recorded, or if, indeed, there are other movements? Rob www.robmackillop.net On 2 Jul 2011, at 02:55, Ed Durbrow wrote: > There are some performers in command of their music! Very nice. The > only thing I didn't like was the pixelation of the strings on my video > screen. > > On Jul 2, 2011, at 9:47 AM, Daniel Shoskes wrote: > > Lucas Harris and Taffelmusik: > [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOAzSVXm4-E > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > Ed Durbrow > Saitama, Japan > [2]http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ > [3]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ > > -- > > References > > 1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOAzSVXm4-E > 2. http://www.musicianspage.com/musicians/9688/ > 3. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ >
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Gehema lute book
Very nice playing, Mathias. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Falkenhagen
2009/2/28 Dale Young <[1]dyoung5...@wowway.com> I am now listening to what I believe to be the single most incredible piece of lute music ever written...Falckenhagen's Preludio nel quale sono contenuti tutti i tuoni musicali, as performed by Paul Beier.Stunning in content and display. Agreed! Let's hear it more often. Rob MacKillop -- References 1. mailto:dyoung5...@wowway.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Harp Strings
Hi Chris, I used to play with a harp player, Bill Taylor, who worked for [1]www.ardivalharps.com who supplied strings for period and modern small harps. They just ordered theirs from Aquila... Rob MacKillop 2008/12/21 <[2]chriswi...@yahoo.com> Hello Fonts of Wisdom, I'm wanting to do some experimenting with different bass strings for my bass rider 13-course. Does anyone have experience using harp strings? I've noticed that Bow Brand has gut strings for around $20 a piece. If this even works, its not terribly cheap, but acceptable for a trial run. I have no idea how you order them - they don't sell them by gauges, but rather by harp maker and octave. An tips? Chris To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.ardivalharps.com/ 2. mailto:chriswi...@yahoo.com 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Bach conference
FOURTH INTERNATIONAL J. S. BACH DIALOGUE MEETING New Directions in Bach Studies Denis Arnold Hall, Faculty of Music University of Oxford Saturday 3 January 2009 13.30: Registration and Welcome at Merton College Chapel 14.00: Musical Moment: Coffee Cantata, BWV 211 From 14.30: Further registrations possible at the Faculty of Music. 14.45: Afternoon Sessions I and II, Faculty of Music: Bach the Dramatist Speakers: Christoph Wolff, Irmgard Scheitler, Michael Maul, Ruth HaCohen. Chair: Reinhard Strohm. 18.30: Evening Session John Eliot Gardiner will speak on Bach and the spirit of music drama. Conference Dinner, Merton College Sunday 4 January 2009 9.30: Morning session I, Faculty of Music: Young Scholars' Forum PhD students and young scholars are invited to talk about their work. 10.30: Lecture Demonstration Reinhold Kubik and Margit Legler (Vienna) on rhetoric, gesture and scenic imagination in Bach's music, to complement the theme of 'Bach the Dramatist'. 11.30: Morning Session II: Music and Text (1) Rediscovery of Sources and their Implication Tatiana Shabalina will speak on recently rediscovered sources in St. Petersburg. 12.20: Lunch break 13.30: Afternoon Session I: Music and Text (2) Context and Interpretation Roundtable session chaired by John Butt. Speakers: Peter Smaill, Burkhard Schwalbach, Szymon Paczkowski. 15.10: Afternoon Session II: Burning Issues Forum Speakers will include Ruth Tatlow and Margaret Steinitz. End of Dialogue Meeting, 16.00 Those who wish to stay and participate in the meetings of the BNUK Study Groups are welcome to do so: . Music and Text (chair: John Butt) . Nineteenth Century Bach Reception History (chair: Yo Tomita) Enquiries: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (or mobile 2-4 January 2009: 07857 076121). -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: new Conradi/Kellner CD
That's great. Is it downloadable from anywhere? I don't mean for free - I certainly don't mind paying. Rob 2008/11/13 Hermann Kelber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hello everybody, Ed Martin just released a wonderful Baroque solo CD played all on gut strings. 1) the "allemande " recording includes the Conradi suites : A-major/ C-major and 2 D-Minor pieces 2) also the D-Major Kellner suite and the Phantasia in F. congratulation Ed>>and enjoy > I have no financial interest in this matter. contact Ed personally to order his CD Edward Martin E-mail Address(es): [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hermann Hermann Kelber 1050 Crystal Ct. Walnut Creek, Ca. 94598 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [3][4]www.mclasen.com/hermdergerm -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. [7]http://www.mclasen.com/hermdergerm To get on or off this list see list information at [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 4. http://www.mclasen.com/hermdergerm 5. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 6. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 7. http://www.mclasen.com/hermdergerm 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Music for a wedding
How about 'Tickle me naked, wontonly' from Skene? Rob 2008/8/26 Tuomas Rauramaa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Dear all, My friend is getting married and I promised to perform a piece or two in the wedding. Any suggestions for the music? Baroque lute, theorbo or baroque guitar would the instrument of choice. Thanks in advance, Tuomas Rauramaa Kuopio, Finland -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: a very basic question
And often the melody note belongs to the underlying harmony, whereas the ornament is a dissonance? Rob 2008/8/20 Ed Durbrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> So many players interpret the comma ornament as an appogiatura in a measured way. If this is correct, why didn't the composer just write a note? Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] [3]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: a very basic question
So there is no confusion over which note is the 'melody' note and which is the ornament? Rob 2008/8/20 Ed Durbrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> So many players interpret the comma ornament as an appogiatura in a measured way. If this is correct, why didn't the composer just write a note? Ed Durbrow Saitama, Japan [EMAIL PROTECTED] [3]http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/ 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: new videos
I agree, it is a beautiful piece. My wife's favourite. Rob 2008/5/27 Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > The Courante is just lovely. > RT > - Original Message - From: "Rob MacKillop" < > [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Baroque-Lute" > Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 1:45 PM > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] new videos > > > Six short videos of pieces from Wemyss, Straloch and Panmure >> manuscripts: >> http://www.vimeo.com/robmackillop/videos >> >> Cheers, >> >> Rob >> >> -- >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> > --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] new videos
Six short videos of pieces from Wemyss, Straloch and Panmure manuscripts: http://www.vimeo.com/robmackillop/videos Cheers, Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] videos
I've added four videos - one lute, three baroque guitar - to the vimeo site. This is my first attempt at making a video - not something I enjoyed too much! My first take - the sound was terrible, so I set the computer up and recorded with a mic in to the laptop at the same time as recording the video. Then in Windows Movie Maker I had to take out the audio from the video and install and line up the mp3 track which I had boosted the volume of and added a tiny bit of reverb. It sounded ok. Then I uploaded the lot to vimeo and also to the lute and baroque guitar networks. The uploads did not go so well. One of the videos would not upload. The others did, but not the little picture for the video icon for clicking on...The sound is a little weird too...not what I heard on my computer before upload...And I should mention there was 20 minutes of my performance which did not get recorded - I never noticed the video tape had run out...Geez, I need to go for a long walk! Still, I hope you get something from these efforts. Was it worth it? Probably not! Go to www.vimeo.com and search for MacKillop. Rob MacKillop PS Excuse the cross posting... -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] new network site
Ever one to jump on a bandwagon... The Lute and Baroque Lute lists now have a useful network site, as does the cittern crowd. Now we have the vihuela-baroque guitar social network website: http://earlyguitar.ning.com/ What is there? Well, you can discuss things in a forum, upload photos, pdf files, videos, mp3 files, have your own blog. You have to log in for your first visit. The lute and cittern sites seem to have become popular very quickly. Will it replace this forum? I doubt it, but some might find it more enjoyable. I've also extended the timeline to pre-Torres guitars. It will be useful to have all our sound files, scores, illustrations on one site. If it doesn't work, I'll take it offline in a month's time. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] new website
I've decided to put all my mp3 sound files on a dedicated website called Song Of The Rose (www.songoftherose.co.uk). I have no interest anymore in making CDs, so all my future solo files will be placed here. It currently includes a performance of Bach's 2nd suite for cello on 11c. Much more to follow in due course. Cheers, Rob MacKillop -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: zoom
Very beautiful. Rob On 20/04/2008, Roman Turovsky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I decided (against my better judgement) to run the recorder during the > rehearsal on Friday, and this is what came of that: > http://torban.org/audio/bida1.mp3 > > RT > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] website update
Luthier Malcolm Prior has updated his website: http://www.malcolmprior.co.uk/index.htm - he took some time out when his wife started having children. He is now fully back into lute making and has a fairly short waiting time, as well as non-commissioned instruments coming up for sale. Highly recommended! Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] new theorbo
I've been reminded that some of you on this Baroque Lute list are not on the Lute list, so here is a cross posting (sorry if you have received it twice). I have a wonderful new theorbo. Sound file and pics: http://www.rmguitar.info/theorbo.htm Rob PS I suppose a theorbo is a baroque lute of sorts, so not off topic...possibly the first baroque lute...? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Resubmission
I liked both interpretations. Let's hear more. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bringing a large lute back from Europe
Here is Lynda Sayce's essay on the subject of flying with a theorbo: http://www.theorbo.com/Writings/Flying.htm Rob On 06/03/2008, Thomas Tallant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Does anyone have any good advice for how to bring a large lute from Europe > to the United States? In this case the instrument would be a lute with a > neck extension (a theorbo). Someone will bring the instrument from Europe > to the U.S., checking it onboard an airplane. The instrument would be > kept in its Kingham case. Perhaps one could wrap the entire thing in thick > bubble wrap and check it? > > Thomas > > > - > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Resubmission
The ones that got away are always better! (Not the most grammatically-correct sentence I've ever written!). You seemed to relax into it more before the end. It didn't sound like you were on rhythmic autopilot, which it often does when one is experimenting with inegales. Keep up the good work. Whether one should play an allemande in such a style is a question for debate, of course, but it sounds nice! Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Amateur recordings
Oh oh... you've opened a can of worms here, Stephen. Dotting in French music is a majorly contentious issue - people have come to blows over such a thing. But these are important questions which we all have to address if we are to play French lute music with any degree of stylistic awareness. I'll admit that I struggle with it myself. What seems to work in a courante might not work so well in an allemande or sarabande, etc (o there may be National issues here), and what works for Mouton might not work for Mesangeau, etc. Also, what works on a harpsichord might not sound so great on a lute. With my work at Queen Margaret University I have a baroque ensemble in which I am the conductor. We are currently playing some pieces by Charpentier. The students (who are not music student - this is an escape for them from studying nursing, hotel management, etc) had never heard of unequal quavers, and trying to get them to play together in a tum ti tum ti tum ti rhythm without sounding ridiculous is hard - at least it was at first, they are relaxing into it now after several weeks. We need to compile all the 17th-century discussions re dotting (are they online?), and experiment with them, but ultimately play what you think is appropriate. Some people like to have a fixed stance, backed up by a bunch of quotations of rules - it should come as no surprise to many on this list that I am not one of those. But I do like to absorb all the relevant information. One distinction I do make is between a *gesture* (playing uneven quavers where appropriate - not indicated by the composer) and timing (playing exactly the rhythm notated). Gesture is important in all music, be it blues, jazz, or French Baroque, and I feel that composers did not notate it simply because it was hard to capture on paper without performers making it sound too automated, much like swing in jazz. Even when jazz swing is notated in 'exact' notation, players play it differently than if it were in straight quavers. The problem is created when you try to analyse exactly the length of the first quaver compared to the second quaver, because it is tempting to see it as a triplet divided into two plus one - the brain sees that in diagrammatic form, and then quite naturally asks, 'why didn't they notate it this way?'. We have a big problem here. Ever listened to classical musicians playing jazz? The notes might be right, but the feel is different from a 'true' jazzer, someone who has grown up with the whole sound world. But students of jazz can listen to recordings, go to gigs, have lessons with these players. We can't. And when it comes to something as subtle as dotting in French baroque, we naturally find it very difficult, and don't necessarily know when we have got it 'right'. So we have to be practical. Experiment. Play what we feel is right. Then experiment again.Then play what we feel is right. And don't get too bogged down in it. I might not agree with so-and-so playing an allemande by XXX in such a way, but I can still enjoy listening to it if it is played with feeling. Sorry I don't have a formula... Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Rank Amateur Recording # 4
Very nice, Stephen. Working your way to a complete recording of the Barbe? Why not? Seriously, that is a beautiful piece. Your playing gets better with each recording. You seem to be relaxing more with each piece, getting used to the microphone, listening to the music more. Keep up the good work. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] de Visée
On 28/02/2008, T. Diehl-Peshkur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I calculate that for a theorbo, you would be paying out more than $ 1,200 > USD just for strings > Wow! I could keep a horse for a year... Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] de Visée
I can certainly sympathise with him. The booklet note ends with him inviting us to his house in the Philippines...if we are passing. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] de Visée
Strange booklet notes: ''...like everyone else, I use strings which do not sound as they should. They produce a sound that is admittedly compelling and powerful, but to my ears too flashy, indeed vulgar, and which hinders the transmission of the discourse.'' So why do it? - might seem like the obvious question. I guess, like me, Pascal prefers gut, but is not satisfied with the current state of gut strings. I think string makers have cracked the manufacture of trebles and mid-range. Still not convinced about those basses. I hope Mimmo's new strings will change our minds. I look forward to trying them someday. Keep up the good work, Mimmo and Dan and whoever else is experimenting. I wouldn't go so far as to say Pascal's strings sound vulgar, and I wouldn't record if that were the case. And I certainly wouldn't rubbish my own sound in my own booklet notes. Ah, the French are different...eh, Anthony? I saw Pascal in Glasgow once, and he was brilliant. No vulgarity anywhere. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] de Visée
Thanks Theo. I already have it, and agree with everything you said. Great flute playing! Nice to hear ensemble versions of these works. Here it is: * http://tinyurl.com/22dcmk* ** Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Rank Amateur [Exerciser for aging fingers]
Excellent advice, David. Paul Galbraith told me to feel different surfaces gently with my fingertips - clothes, tables, guitar (lute) case - before plucking the string. It awakens the fingers to the subtleties of touch. >>>Left and right hand shape the tone together<<< 100 per cent right on. Rob On 26/02/2008, LGS-Europe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Your fingers are more than strong enough. > > With pressure, less is more. It is easy to flex a muscle fast. Put your > hand > in a flame, get stung by a bee or catch a falling lute to try. But it > takes > time to relax a muscle, we all know that. So to develop speed on a lute, > we > have to minimize our pressure. I can put down a finger fast enough, but I > cannot lift it fast enough. With less pressure, I can lift faster and my > speed will improve. > Another reason why less pressure is better: with more pressure we feel > less. > Left and right hand shape the tone together, the only feedback we get > before > we actually pluck the string is through the contact of our fingertips. If > we > use more muscle, we feel less. Keep your sense of touch alive by using > less > pressure, and your tone will improve if you 'listen' to the feedback your > fingertips give you. > > David > > > > David van Ooijen > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > www.davidvanooijen.nl > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Rank Amateur [Exerciser for aging fingers]
In my experience, students tend to use ten times the amount of pressure and energy than required, so when I see talk of finger strengtheners I get worried. The great classical guitarist, David Russell, taught me an invaluable lesson in this regard. Put your left hand index finger on any note, say for example the fifth fret of the first string. Don't press it down yet, just touch it with the fingertip. Start continuously plucking the string. Obviously you get a muted note. Now slowly start adding pressure as you move the string towards the fingerboard. Soon the note will sound well. At that point, start decreasing the pressure back to where you started. You are teaching your muscles to apply the minimum pressure needed to fret a note. My bet it is that it is a LOT less pressure than you are used to applying. Now try it with other fingers. Then try playing a scale without open strings with this same technique. Go up and down the scale a few times from zero pressure to just enough and back again. Do this at the start of every practice session. Worked for me. Your fingers are more than strong enough. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bach's bass lines
A 78cm 10c bass lute in D (presumably Renaissance tuning?) - wow - that sounds like fun. Wish I had one. Wish I had a gallichon in A, 95cms. Wish I had an archlute. I do have an 11c - not designed for powerful continuo playing - a baroque guitar - not suitable for Bach's bass lines - and a theorbo arriving soon. I'll just have to fumble my way through somehow, playing what I can. Martyn has very kindly offered to loan me his mega-large gallichon in A, which intend to take him up on. It will probably lead to more debt, in that I will doubtless want to buy one. It never ends... Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bach's bass lines
> > >>>Apart from the fact that it is fun to speculate one these matters, and > good > for us continuo pluckers to find practical answers, perhaps the question > is > a moot one. Bach did not write his continuo basses for a member of the > lute > family. <<< Yes, of course, David. That is understood. I was just speculating what one could contribute to a reading of the Art of Music and A Musical Offering, neither of which require continuo support. I would like to play a single line in an ensemble performance, but found it hard to imagine what one would do in such a scenario on a theorbo. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bach's bass lines
Mimmo sent me an interesting idea. He agreed that I could forward it to you guys. I think Martyn holds a similar position? Rob Silk bass strings like the 19th c guitars Rob. My point of wiwe of course This is why I think that the Gallicone was so suitable on bass line and powerful. My idea is that the guitar copyed it and added the 6th bass. There are no any document that justify this point. I just consider that this instrument is of the same proportion of a classical guitar of the Torres- time. And so: gallicone in D: 70-73 cms Guitar in E: 65 cms more or less All is so well relate. different than d minor lutes, tined a third higher F. In practise they, on gallicone,. employed the close wound silk strings, no the open ones. And the 4th was close wound, this time. You immage a sound powerfull like our guitars with basses with less sustain due to a silk silk. MImmo Ciao Mimmo -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Rank Amateur Recording # 3
Stephen, You mentioned books - do you have the baroque lute tutor by Satoh and the one by Miguel Serdoura, 'Collection Le Secret Des Muses'? The latter has lots of exercises and easy pieces. I have the French version which was published by the French Lute Society, but I believe it has been withdrawn and will be published by another publisher both in French and a seperate English language volume. Anthony should be able to update us on that. It is 346 pages long and includes good biographies of the main and lesser-known composers. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bach's bass lines
Despite what the Barbarous Barber might say, Martyn is a very talented man - he made his own gallichon, and is also a leading scholar in the world of the gallichon, and although I've never heard him play, I'm told he is a fine performer too. Maybe he would make you one, Dale? If not, I'm sure most luthiers would like to try. The questions are: what pitch, string length, single or double courses, and how many courses? It does seem to have been overlooked my most of us as a very useful continuo instrument. High Baroque bass lines do tend to get very chromatic, and the gallichon does seem to be the only instrument of the lute family which could play them. Rob On 21/02/2008, Dale Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Martyn, > I want one! Who built yours? Dale > -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Bach's bass lines
There's a thought. I'll write to you privately, Martyn. Rob On 21/02/2008, Martyn Hodgson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rob, > > I'd be happy to lend you my large single strung gallichon in A for a few > months if you could pick it up and arrange insurance etc. > > regards, > > Martyn > -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Bach's bass lines
I've just been thinking about Bach's bass lines (not the lute/violin/cello suites) and the impossibility of playing them as written on either a baroque lute (either swan or bass rider), an Italian theorbo or a German Continuo theorbo - only the Gallichon seems capable, and even then a large c.90 plus gallichon in A would suffice. I've been listening to a lot of part music these last couple of weeks, from Renaissance recorder consorts (in a beautiful meantone temperament) to A Musical Offering and The Art of Fugue on viols - and thought how wonderful it would be just shaping a single line in a consort: something I haven't done for a long time, and even then not very often. I'm sure it would help my line phrasing in solo lute pieces. So...when my harpsichord friend asked me if I'd like to join her small ensemble (harpsichord, violin, viola) with my new (Italian) theorbo (arriving in a couple of weeks time) to explore A Musical Offering and suchlike, I said 'Yes!'. But now I'm not sure what contribution one could make on such an instrument in such a setting with such music. Doubling the bass line would be odd as I'd have to leap octaves all over the place, the viola is taking care of the tenor line, the violin the soprano line. The harpsichord could play bass and alto/second treble line. There's nothing left to play! We could look at those pieces with more than four voice parts, but somehow it is all beginning to lack integrity. On the other hand, it's just friends getting together - not a serious recording project. But I just can't 'hear' where the theorbo would fit in. Can't afford a gallichon as well... What to do? Ideas? Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Rank Amateur Recording # 3
Well done Stephen. I think the performance is better than the last recording, although that wasn't bad at all. Another nice piece and a nice performance. What more could anyone ask for? Keep up the good work. I'm off to listen to it again... Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Moulinie
Timo Peedu has been at it again...this time he has tabulated the wonderful Airs de Cour for voice and guitar by Etienne Moulinie. This 1629 publication contains 12 songs with guitar accompaniment: one dialogue, 5 Italian songs, 5 Spanish songs and one Air Gascon. This is a major publication and is available entirely free from this page www.rmguitar.info/scores.htm - scroll down to find Timo's considerable library of free scores. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Pitch for French music
Hi Theo, Harpsichords and woodwind did not undergo a radical retuning as did the lute, which very likely dropped in tension as it dropped in pitch. Also, the 11c repertoire is almost exclusively solo - so, what other instruments were tuned to is arguably of no importance. But if you want to tune to 414, 440, or 780, I'm very happy for you to do so. At risk of repeating myself, there is no definite proof for any particular 11c lute at any particular pitch. Secondary and circumstantial evidence will not lead to a definte answer. My bet is that many players used different pitches - even the same player might have used different pitches on different lutes. And I, for one, think that is a good thing. Vive le differance! Cheers :-) Rob On 14/02/2008, T. Diehl-Peshkur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Rob, > For harpsichords, there are many different studies where is is shown that > the tensile strength the local string product determined the scaling and > pitch of the highest notes. > In other words, the highest string was calculated to be at just near the > breaking point. With violins, perhaps something similar occurred in a > different manner with the e-string and piano pitch as orchestras in Europe > went as high as 460Hz during the late 19th/early 20th century. > > Woodwinds, that seem to be the primary source for many regarding pitch, > are typically played with other instruments, generally not solo. So the > lower pitch of > French woodwinds doesn't really impress. > > In gut, 68cm at 392, we are already at about 2mm for the 11th course > diapasonYet the (better) pictures like the famous Mouton portrait and > other pics one sees seem to have strings not really so thick > visually(Making a jump: if we look at the original Schelle at Yale (OK, > not French, indeed) with a string length of 65cm and 12 and 13 under about > 69cm, then you would need ropes for this lute- unless it was quite high > pitched. They probably just tuned it up until everything sounded convincing > I suppose. > > Rob, in the end, we have no disagreement about pitch- let the lute itself > decide! > However, the longer I think about it, the less I believe that the > (generally) shorter French lutes were as low as the well known players > (read: existing recordings) would have us all believe. > Cheers, > Theo > > > -- > *From: *Rob MacKillop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > *Date: *Thu, 14 Feb 2008 11:57:14 + > *To: *"T. Diehl-Peshkur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > *Cc: *baroque Lutelist > *Subject: *Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Pitch for French music > > > > >>>On 14/02/2008, *T. Diehl-Peshkur* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > For most string instruments, the usual method was to tune the highest note > as high as comfortable, and go from there.<<< > > > > I haven't found a 17th or 18th-century French source for that. Have you? > Without a quotation to back you up, there is little strength to your > arguement. First of all you say 'MOST string instruments', and then 'USUAL > method'. What evidence do you have? I don't want to seem as though I am > attacking you over this, as I'm not. My view is that there is so little > exacting evidence, that any stance is hard to justify. I also agree with > David's points. When it comes to solo playing, let your instrument teach you > what IT wants. If that be 394 or 417, then so be it. > > Rob > > -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Pitch for French music
>>>On 14/02/2008, T. Diehl-Peshkur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > For most string instruments, the usual method was to tune the highest note > as high as comfortable, and go from there.<<< I haven't found a 17th or 18th-century French source for that. Have you? Without a quotation to back you up, there is little strength to your arguement. First of all you say 'MOST string instruments', and then 'USUAL method'. What evidence do you have? I don't want to seem as though I am attacking you over this, as I'm not. My view is that there is so little exacting evidence, that any stance is hard to justify. I also agree with David's points. When it comes to solo playing, let your instrument teach you what IT wants. If that be 394 or 417, then so be it. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Pitch for French music
I play at 392 with a string length of 69. My baroque guitar is also at 392 for de Visee. This is a home recording of my 11c: http://www.rmguitar.info/mp3s/11c/TombeauDeDuBut.mp3 Some like that low pitch, others don't. You will read conflicting reports about pitch during this period in France, and ultimtely you will have to make your own choice. I've made mine. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tombeau de du But
Thanks for the kind comments, Stephen. I thought you were being sarcastic at first! I guess I'm just lucky in getting a recording set up which works for me. It worked on my old Dell PC and on my Sony Vaio. Sorry it doesn't work for everyone. I couldn't buy the Nero wave Editor independent of the other things, but I have a use for some of them. But the wave editor is nothing special, very basic in fact. I'm sure there are freebies out there just as useful. Likewise the strings. I have to admit I'm really not one who spends much time working these things out. But when I do get new strings, I spend a LONG time just playing single notes in different positions, with a subtle, almost not there, vibrato. I also play chromatic scales quite slowly on all the fretted positions on all the strings, massaging the soundboard into life. The things is not to pluck the string, but to coax the sound out. Each instrument works differently, so you have to find the sweet spot with each one. I find the different string materials work differently, but eventually the instrument yeilds its secrets no matter gut or nylon. Well, that's the way I see it. YMMV. Rob -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tombeau de du But
I've deliberately banned you from my site, Anthony...only kidding!! It is on my 11c page. Try going to my front page: www.rmguitar.info and click on 11c. Then scroll down to the aforementioned photo of me grinning like an idiot. Or will this do? http://www.rmguitar.info/mp3s/11c/TombeauDeDuBut.mp3 Rob On 12/02/2008, Anthony Hind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rob >I seem to be the only one who can't see it. I am on Mac and Firefox > Isi it on the page with De Visee etc? > Regards > Anthony > Le 12 fevr. 08 =E0 12:16, Mathias R=F6sel a ecrit : > > > "Rob MacKillop" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: > >> It seemed to bring out the best in them. This one is very moving, > >> and I hope > >> you enjoy listening to it. I consider it a 'work in progress' > >> recording. You > >> can find it just above the photo of me holding the lute near the > >> bottom of > >> this page: http://www.rmguitar.info/Maler.htm > > > > Beautiful. - What made you choose the ornaments the way you did? I > > seem > > to notice kind of a preponderance for rather short trills instead of > > long appogiature. > > -- > > Mathias > > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > --
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tombeau de du But
Hi Jaroslaw, I have a cheap microphone, a stereo condenser by Sony, the *Sony ECM-MS907*. You can get them for around 50 UKpounds. It's the same as Martin Shepherd's. We also both use Nero Wave Editor which I use for chopping the ends off the files and adding reverb- this time I only added a little, but enough to bring out the natural resonance of the instrument. Martin found that the set up of mic and software did not work so well for him, so he bought the zoom and is getting great results. I'm just lucky that the mic works well with the stock soundcard which came with my Sony laptop. So I just put the mic straight into the laptop and add a touch of reverb. I'm not really into trying to make a CD-quality recording. I don't think there is an inexpensive way to do that. If I wanted to do a CD, I would pay to get it done professionally. However, the quality I get from spending 100 UK pounds is certainly good enough for mp3 downloads on a website. I use nylgut-core fundamentals, the D variety. Here is a list of measurements followed by their tensions (worked out by Martin): Nylgut 1. 46 2. 50 3. 62 4. 75 5. 91 6. 124D + 60 7. 140D + 68 8. 155D + 76 9. 165D + 82 10. 10. 185D + 91 11. 11. 210D + 100D Tensions for Nylgut 1 41 2 34.5 3 30 4 28 5 28.5 6 30 + 28.5 7 30 + 28.5 8 29.5 + 28.5 9 28 + 24 (midway between E and Eb) 10 29 + 28.5 11 30 + 27.5 Glad you like the sound! Rob On 12/02/2008, Jaros³aw Lipski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Rob, > > De Visee sounds really nice even with nylgut. I wonder what you used for > bass fundamentals? Also the quality of the recording is very good. Curious > what mics did you used? No reverb added? > Anyway, thanks for sharing this piece with us. > I am glad your arm is fine :-) > Best wishes > > Jaroslaw > > -Original Message- > From: Rob MacKillop [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 11:54 AM > To: Baroque-Lute > Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Tombeau de du But > > I'd like to thank all those people who have written to me over the last > couple of weeks enquiring about my arm. I'm happy to report that it feels > 100 per cent fine. However, I'm not rushing back into playing for as many > hours as I can cram into the day, and restricting myself to half an hour > in > the morning and the same in the evening. > > This morning I managed to record on my Martin Shepherd 11c the beautiful > 'Tombeau de du But' by Robert de Visee. I think someone else on this list > asked the question: did anyone ever write a bad tombeau? I don't think so. > It seemed to bring out the best in them. This one is very moving, and I > hope > you enjoy listening to it. I consider it a 'work in progress' recording. > You > can find it just above the photo of me holding the lute near the bottom of > this page: http://www.rmguitar.info/Maler.htm > > Cheers, > > Rob > > -- > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > >
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Tombeau de du But
Good question, Mathias. I don't have a worked-out answer. As I said, I consider it a 'work in progress' recording. A lot of French baroque lute music seems to me to be less about a long arching melody than a sequence of sighing moments set up over an almost formulaic chord sequence. I guess I'm interpreting this 'macro sighing concept' (!) on a micro level - the shorter trills repeat the painful dissonance/consonance aspect - but I'm beginning to talk a load of crap, so I'll stop. :-) It comes out the way it comes out because that's the way it comes out. There you go! Rob On 12/02/2008, "Mathias R=F6sel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Beautiful. - What made you choose the ornaments the way you did? I seem > to notice kind of a preponderance for rather short trills instead of > long appogiature. > -- > Mathias > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > --
