Re: A Positive for DW2004

[Massimo, Tiziana e Federica]

> I've done my share of DW bashing so let me give credit where it's due.
> The new search and replace rox !!
>
Apart from the ability to search inside selected text and a bigger GUI, it's
exactly the same as it was in DW MX :-)

I keep saying it vastly superior to the one in Homesite/CF Studio since
years, but usually people don't believe me on this...


Massimo Foti
Certified Dreamweaver MX Developer
Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX Developer
http://www.massimocorner.com/



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A Positive for DW2004

[Stacy Young]

I've done my share of DW bashing so let me give credit where it's due.
The new search and replace rox !!

Stace



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Re: KILL THIS was Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Michael Dinowitz]

At this point I agree. The bottom line will be:
1. people will have the option to receive mail in HTML or text format. (HTML
default)
2. HTML format will be limited to a single bar at bottom of the message with all
of the list controls and a banner ad.
3. text format will have the same but with a 3-4 line text ad instead.
4. The HTML version of the posts will be given a 'higher' send priority than the
text versions.
5. Having mail with an HTML banner will allow us to attract advertisers to
support the lists rather than depending on donations.
6. Money from advertising will be funneled back into HoF features such as paying
authors for content.
7. People can choose what they will, but using the HTML version of the mail and
clicking on a banner they are interested in once in a while will be a great
support to the lists.
8. I appreciate the information and views of the members and will adjust things
over time to make sure that people are (mostly) happy. :)
Thanks

> Can we PLEASE kill this thread? It hasn't been anywhere near CF since the
> beginning, and this holy war between the pro and anti HTML camps is
> annoying. Did everybody miss the key word in Michael's initial e-mail: the
> *option* of receiving mail is HTML format. He never suggested that plain
> text was going to be replaced.
>
> I think continuing this thread makes all the discussions of wasted bandwidth
> due to extra markup moot.
>
> Michael, if you feel you still haven't received the feeback you were looking
> for from a wide enough cross-section of the list, could you post a survey or
> something the the HOF site and direct people there? Thanks in advance for
> doing whatever you decide to keep the lists humming.
>
> Trying not to be rude but being pushed dangerously close,
> Dave.
>
> _
> Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee.
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963
>
> 
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KILL THIS was Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Dave Carabetta]

>Fine, fine...if this list goes HTML, send all the prettified email you
>want. Just know all of us whose email clients are not the leading
>virus infection vector in the world, won't be looking at it if we
>don't want to ;-)
>

Can we PLEASE kill this thread? It hasn't been anywhere near CF since the 
beginning, and this holy war between the pro and anti HTML camps is 
annoying. Did everybody miss the key word in Michael's initial e-mail: the 
*option* of receiving mail is HTML format. He never suggested that plain 
text was going to be replaced.

I think continuing this thread makes all the discussions of wasted bandwidth 
due to extra markup moot.

Michael, if you feel you still haven't received the feeback you were looking 
for from a wide enough cross-section of the list, could you post a survey or 
something the the HOF site and direct people there? Thanks in advance for 
doing whatever you decide to keep the lists humming.

Trying not to be rude but being pushed dangerously close,
Dave.

_
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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jim Davis]

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 10:07 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades
> 
> Monday, September 15, 2003, 9:39:10 PM, you wrote:
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:29 PM
> >> To: CF-Talk
> >> Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades
> >>
> >> > Novelists are professional authors with refined skills in
> >> > conveying the sentiment of their thoughts, emotions, and
> >> > surroundings. Some of us are not so talented. :)
> >>
> >> Perhaps, but there are plenty of lousy novelists, and yet you
wouldn't
> >> suggest to them that they use formatting to become better writers,
> JD> would
> >> you?
> 
> JD> If we were writing novels it might make a difference - however as
a
> JD> technical list novels are not the works we should be comparing
things
> JD> to.  Open up pretty much any technical book and notice the changes
in
> JD> styles used to convey meaning.
> 
> JD> That would be a much better representation of the content on this
> list.
> 
> JD> Jim Davis
> 
> Fine, fine...if this list goes HTML, send all the prettified email you
> want. Just know all of us whose email clients are not the leading
> virus infection vector in the world, won't be looking at it if we
> don't want to ;-)

It'll be hard, but I think I can live with that.  ;^)

However my point is that this isn't a matter of "prettifying" but in
conveying meaning better.  HTML email may not be the best to do that,
but it is a very good option.

I'm not sure what email client you're using - but most of them are HTML
capable now.  MS bashing is just getting so clichéd lately it's barely
worth responding to any longer.

Jim Davis


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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Claude Schneegans]

>>Surely you've seen messages where a long (80+)
URL was broken two or more lines?

I confirm: a PITA.

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Re:(Admin) List upgrades

[Jeff Houser]

>A few questions:
>2. I'm going to add in a link on each post to send the user directly to the post
>in the archive. Should this link be before the message (a header) or after (a
>footer)?

  I'd love it as part of the header.  The digests already do something along these 
lines.  

>3. As an extension to the previous question, does anyone actually look at the
>message footers?

 On a rare occasion.  I don't usually get through the 100 lines of quoted messages in 
the digest.  

>4. As an extension of the previous question, does anyone click on any of the ads
>that are on HoF/FA? (such as the new MM ad)

 I didn't notice them.  

>5. Would people like the option to get their mail in HTML format?
>6. Other than a wikki (which I'll look into after the RSS feed), are there any
>features you'd like for the lists?

 To answer the last two questions.. 
 Considering that digests are often overloaded with extensive message quoting, I'd 
love the option to click on the subject header in the beginning summary of the digest 
and automatically hyperlink to the message.  The digest summary no longer 
differentiates between the start of a thread and a reply to the thread.  All the "re:" 
are wiped out for some reason.  


 After that, if I read a thread on the web.. subjects of the messages are not 
displayed next to each message, just the date and author.  Perhaps the assumption is 
that all subjects in the thread are the same, but that is not always the case.  

 There are my thoughts...  J e f f

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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[jonhall]

Monday, September 15, 2003, 9:39:10 PM, you wrote:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:29 PM
>> To: CF-Talk
>> Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades
>> 
>> > Novelists are professional authors with refined skills in
>> > conveying the sentiment of their thoughts, emotions, and
>> > surroundings. Some of us are not so talented. :)
>> 
>> Perhaps, but there are plenty of lousy novelists, and yet you wouldn't
>> suggest to them that they use formatting to become better writers,
JD> would
>> you?

JD> If we were writing novels it might make a difference - however as a
JD> technical list novels are not the works we should be comparing things
JD> to.  Open up pretty much any technical book and notice the changes in
JD> styles used to convey meaning.

JD> That would be a much better representation of the content on this list.

JD> Jim Davis

Fine, fine...if this list goes HTML, send all the prettified email you
want. Just know all of us whose email clients are not the leading
virus infection vector in the world, won't be looking at it if we
don't want to ;-)

-- 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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RE: cfc vs cfinclude

[Samuel Neff]

'cause sometimes the little things add up.  :-)

Sam


--
Blog:  http://www.rewindlife.com
Chart: http://www.blinex.com/products/charting
-- 


> -Original Message-
> From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:21 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: cfc vs cfinclude
> 
> 
> (Why are people so focused on micro-performance issues instead of the 
> bigger picture stuff?)
> 
> Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
> 

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jim Davis]

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:29 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades
> 
> > Novelists are professional authors with refined skills in
> > conveying the sentiment of their thoughts, emotions, and
> > surroundings. Some of us are not so talented. :)
> 
> Perhaps, but there are plenty of lousy novelists, and yet you wouldn't
> suggest to them that they use formatting to become better writers,
would
> you?

If we were writing novels it might make a difference - however as a
technical list novels are not the works we should be comparing things
to.  Open up pretty much any technical book and notice the changes in
styles used to convey meaning.

That would be a much better representation of the content on this list.

Jim Davis


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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jim Davis]

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:39 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades
> 
> > Plain text is like speaking in a monotone. There is no
> > emphasis on concepts, ideas, etc.. I can't stand trying
> > to get something across when I don't even have Bold to
> > work with :)
> 
> That's funny, I can pick up any novel and read it just fine, beginning
to
> end, and they readily convey their ideas without lots of text
formatting.
> I
> wonder how they do it?

There are many very subtle (yet tremendously effective) typesetting
techniques at use in any novel that are not conveyed by plain ASCII
text.

Spacing, typeface, typestyle, meter, kerning, etc - they all work
together in a well-constructed paper book.

We're still not there in any form online - comparing plain text email to
a novel is just apples and oranges.

Jim Davis


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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jim Davis]

> -Original Message-
> From: Mosh Teitelbaum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:18 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades
> 
> Plain text certainly does *NOT* have to be like speaking in a
monotone.
>   ^
> There have been standard conventions for emphasizing text in
email/usenet
> for ages.

Which are nothing more than ambiguous kludges for traditional
conventions.  In other words the only reason we do that is an inability
to do what we really want.  ;^)

Jim Davis


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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jim Davis]

> -Original Message-
> From: Scott Wilhelm [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:52 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades
> 
> Why not take Google's lead w/ text only ads?  That would work well w/
both
> options for format.

I think the problem is that Michael's been doing text ads in the
messages for years - but nobody is clicking on them.  ;^)

One idea that could be neat, could be frustrating is to place a quota on
each user.  The ads in the footer (whether text or graphical) MUST be
clicked sometimes (say once a day, week, month, whatever).

If a user doesn't click an ad in the timeframe they may get a reminder,
or perhaps only get the first 100 or so characters of messages until
they do.

As a subscriber I wouldn't mind a system like this too much (as long as
the ads were both relevant and varied).  I may not actually pay any
attention to the content of the link, but the list would get its click
through.

I'm actually liking this idea a lot you leverage your subscriber
base in a forced, but still relatively painless manner.

Jim Davis


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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jim Davis]

> 
> yeah, but a 2K HTML email with 10 1px clear GIFs passing your email
and
> such to spam lists is REAL SUPER dumb.  I'd prefer the text based
anyday
> to this.  Of course, email from this list would be clean anyway, so a
> preferential decision on the members part would seem fine.

I still see this as an implementation concern, not a conceptual concern.

It's like anything else: some people will really abuse it and many of
those will do so when it becomes available.

Any new technology is pretty much instantly used to produce crappier
crap.  HTML, Flash, DHTML, etc - at first people went crazy (some still
are) but it does settle down rather quickly (due primarily, I think, to
peer pressure).

Even text has this problem - Google some of the holy wars about
signature length in USENet circa 1994-1995.  ;^)

Jim Davis


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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jim Davis]

> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:45:04 -0400, in cf-talk you wrote:
> >I'll also throw my hat in the ring as being pro UseNet - I'd much
rather
> >participate via NNTP.  It's not a deal-breaker by any means (I'm
here!)
> >but it would be very nice.
> 
> Did you know you can already get the list via NNTP? I have been doing
> so for quite a while. LMK if you'd like details.


I didn't know this - I would be interested... it's a damn site better
than using a webmail interface at the office.  ;^)

Jim Davis


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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jim Davis]

> -Original Message-
> From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 11:22 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades
> 
> Jim Davis wrote:
> >
> > (As an aside - I've never understood the "war" against HTML
email/NNTP
> > posts. It seems the perfect solution to me: a text only, non
proprietary
> > method for adding truly rish formatting to email?  Sounds great to
me.)
> 
> Have you ever looked at the sourcecode of what the average email
> client calls HTML?

Failures in implementation shouldn't affect the quality of the concept.

It's like saying that SQL is a bad thing because Access implements it so
badly.  ;^)

Jim Davis



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RE: CFMX scope searching ?

[Jim Davis]

This is no real difference in the scope lookup order - however CFMX does
add some new scopes to the list (but it doesn't change the order of the
old ones).

Jim Davis

> -Original Message-
> From: Ryan Stille [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:13 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: CFMX scope searching ?
> 
> I remember hearing somewhere that CFMX searched scopes differently,
like
> maybe it wouldn't search scopes at all anymore, you always had to use
> Form.name instead of just using 'name' and letting it find it in the
Form
> scope (I know it's best pratice to scope anyway).
> 
> Is there any truth to this or am I just making it up?  Anyone have a
URL
> that states this?  I searched but couldn't find anything.
> 
> I am on the digest list so please CC responses to me.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Ryan
> 
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RE: works fine in access, but not cf

[Jim Davis]

> >>this is an ODBC error,
> 
> Not even: this a programer's error. The standars in SQL is to use
single
> quotes, not double quotes.

Well - to be very, exactingly precise just for you I'll say "this is an
instance of ODBC reporting to you, the user, a developer error" from now
on.  ;^)

Jim Davis


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Anyone seen this exception in CF before?

[Stacy Young]

 

I've got two clustered instances. I'm not 100% certain but I believe
this exception is logged when one instance is brought down, any else
seen this?

Everything appears to be functioning ok...just don't feel comfortable
having unexplained exceptions popping up. Appreciate any insight! -Stace

 

 

09/11 23:21:44 error Connection refused to host: 172.16.61.22; nested
exception is: 
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect
[1]java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect
at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.socketConnect(Native Method)
at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.doConnect(PlainSocketImpl.java:305)
at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.connectToAddress(PlainSocketImpl.java:171)
at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.connect(PlainSocketImpl.java:158)
at java.net.Socket.connect(Socket.java:452)
at java.net.Socket.connect(Socket.java:402)
at java.net.Socket.(Socket.java:309)
at java.net.Socket.(Socket.java:124)
at
sun.rmi.transport.proxy.RMIDirectSocketFactory.createSocket(RMIDirectSoc
ketFactory.java:22)
at
sun.rmi.transport.proxy.RMIMasterSocketFactory.createSocket(RMIMasterSoc
ketFactory.java:128)
at sun.rmi.transport.tcp.TCPEndpoint.newSocket(TCPEndpoint.java:562)
at
sun.rmi.transport.tcp.TCPChannel.createConnection(TCPChannel.java:185)
at sun.rmi.transport.tcp.TCPChannel.newConnection(TCPChannel.java:171)
at sun.rmi.server.UnicastRef.invoke(UnicastRef.java:101)
at jrun.servlet.jrpp.JRunProxyClusterHelper_Stub.toStub(Unknown Source)
at
jrun.servlet.jrpp.JRunProxyClusterHelper.notifyPeers(JRunProxyClusterHel
per.java:207)
at
jrun.servlet.jrpp.JRunProxyClusterHelper.peerAddedEvent(JRunProxyCluster
Helper.java:165)
at
jrunx.cluster.ClusterableServiceAdapter.addPeer(ClusterableServiceAdapte
r.java:323)
at jrunx.cluster.ClusterListener.serviceAdded(ClusterListener.java:145)
at
net.jini.lookup.ServiceDiscoveryManager$LookupCacheImpl.serviceNotifyDo(
ServiceDiscoveryManager.java:1130)
at
net.jini.lookup.ServiceDiscoveryManager$LookupCacheImpl.addServiceNotify
(ServiceDiscoveryManager.java:1096)
at
net.jini.lookup.ServiceDiscoveryManager$LookupCacheImpl.addService(Servi
ceDiscoveryManager.java:1035)
at
net.jini.lookup.ServiceDiscoveryManager$LookupCacheImpl.access$9(Service
DiscoveryManager.java:1025)
at
net.jini.lookup.ServiceDiscoveryManager$LookupCacheImpl$NotifyEventTask.
run(ServiceDiscoveryManager.java:543)
at com.sun.jini.thread.TaskManager$TaskThread.run(TaskManager.java:271)
[0]java.rmi.ConnectException: Connection refused to host: 172.16.61.22;
nested exception is: 
java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect
at sun.rmi.transport.tcp.TCPEndpoint.newSocket(TCPEndpoint.java:567)
at
sun.rmi.transport.tcp.TCPChannel.createConnection(TCPChannel.java:185)
at sun.rmi.transport.tcp.TCPChannel.newConnection(TCPChannel.java:171)
at sun.rmi.server.UnicastRef.invoke(UnicastRef.java:101)
at jrun.servlet.jrpp.JRunProxyClusterHelper_Stub.toStub(Unknown Source)
at
jrun.servlet.jrpp.JRunProxyClusterHelper.notifyPeers(JRunProxyClusterHel
per.java:207)
at
jrun.servlet.jrpp.JRunProxyClusterHelper.peerAddedEvent(JRunProxyCluster
Helper.java:165)
at
jrunx.cluster.ClusterableServiceAdapter.addPeer(ClusterableServiceAdapte
r.java:323)
at jrunx.cluster.ClusterListener.serviceAdded(ClusterListener.java:145)
at
net.jini.lookup.ServiceDiscoveryManager$LookupCacheImpl.serviceNotifyDo(
ServiceDiscoveryManager.java:1130)
at
net.jini.lookup.ServiceDiscoveryManager$LookupCacheImpl.addServiceNotify
(ServiceDiscoveryManager.java:1096)
at
net.jini.lookup.ServiceDiscoveryManager$LookupCacheImpl.addService(Servi
ceDiscoveryManager.java:1035)
at
net.jini.lookup.ServiceDiscoveryManager$LookupCacheImpl.access$9(Service
DiscoveryManager.java:1025)
at
net.jini.lookup.ServiceDiscoveryManager$LookupCacheImpl$NotifyEventTask.
run(ServiceDiscoveryManager.java:543)
at com.sun.jini.thread.TaskManager$TaskThread.run(TaskManager.java:271)
Caused by: java.net.ConnectException: Connection refused: connect
at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.socketConnect(Native Method)
at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.doConnect(PlainSocketImpl.java:305)
at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.connectToAddress(PlainSocketImpl.java:171)
at java.net.PlainSocketImpl.connect(PlainSocketImpl.java:158)
at java.net.Socket.connect(Socket.java:452)
at java.net.Socket.connect(Socket.java:402)
at java.net.Socket.(Socket.java:309)
at java.net.Socket.(Socket.java:124)
at
sun.rmi.transport.proxy.RMIDirectSocketFactory.createSocket(RMIDirectSoc
ketFactory.java:22)
at
sun.rmi.transport.proxy.RMIMasterSocketFactory.createSocket(RMIMasterSoc
ketFactory.java:128)
at sun.rmi.transport.tcp.TCPEndpoint.newSocket(TCPEndpoint.java:562)
... 14 more



AVIS IMPORTANT:
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Les informations contenues dans le present document et ses pieces jointes sont 
strictement confidentielles et reservees a l'usage de la (des) personne(s) a qui il 
est adresse. Si vous n'etes pas le destinataire, soyez avise que toute divulgation, 
distribution, copie, ou autre utilisation de ces informations est strict

RE: CFMX and oddness in directory names

[Collin Tobin]

Calvin-

I will get back to you on "/jobs", but it doesn't immediately ring a bell.


Collin Tobin
CFMX QA Engineer
Macromedia®
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-Original Message-
From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:01 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX and oddness in directory names


Collin,

Thanks a bunch! What about jobs, should that be an issue?

- Calvin

- Original Message - 
From: "Collin Tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:52 PM
Subject: RE: CFMX and oddness in directory names


> Calvin-
>
> (from Tom Jordahl, CFMX Engineer):
>
> The /services mapping can safely be removed from the JRun configuration.
This is a JRun default configuration to make using web services simpler.
>
> Since JRun is fully configurable, users can always choose to change or
remove these default mappings.
>
>
> Collin Tobin
> CFMX QA Engineer
> Macromedia®
> What the web can be.(tm)
>
> Announcing Macromedia DevNet Subscriptions
> Maximize your power with our new premium software subscription for
Macromedia developers
> Find out more: 
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:45 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: CFMX and oddness in directory names
>
>
> Still haven't found any tech notes on this issue or anything related, I'm
> beginning to wonder if this is just the machines I'm working on.
>
> If anyone can take a gander and see if this exists on their machines as
> well? In both cases I've got 6.1 going on a Win2k box.
>
> If you have a CFMX for J2EE on JRun,
> create a directory:
> :\\services
> create two files in this directory with any content:
> test.htm
> test.cfm
> See if they will run successfully
>
> If you have a CFMX standard install
> create a directory:
> :\\jobs
> create two files in this directory with any content:
> test.htm
> test.cfm
> See if they will run successfully
>
> It feels like it is a reserved word issue...
>
> Much appreciated if anyone can give this a whirl and see if the issues
exist
> for you as well,
>
> Thanks,
> Calvin
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Calvin Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:27 PM
> Subject: CFMX and oddness in directory names
>
>
> > Has anyone experienced any issues with CFMX and certain directory names?
> >
> > On CFMX for J2EE on JRun, no files under a directory named services will
> run (.cfm or.htm)
> >
> > On CFMX standard install, .cfm files will not run under a directory
named
> jobs, but .htm will
> >
> > Very odd...
> >
> > - Calvin
> >
>
> 

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Re: CFMX scope searching ?

[Sean A Corfield]

On Monday, Sep 15, 2003, at 15:28 US/Pacific, Tyler Silcox wrote:
> Both examples throw an error. Is this how CF5 was?

LiveDocs:

http://livedocs.macromedia.com/coldfusion/5.0/CFML_Reference/ 
Expressions3.htm

"When a variable does not have a scope prefix, ColdFusion searches for  
it in the following sequence:

Local variables created using cfset and cfquery
CGI
File
URL
Form
Cookie
Client"

You can compare this with CFMX 6.1:

http://livedocs.macromedia.com/coldfusion/6.1/htmldocs/variab38.htm

"If you use a variable name without a scope prefix, ColdFusion checks  
the scopes in the following order to find the variable:

Arguments
Variables (local scope)
CGI
Cffile
URL
Form
Cookie
Client"

So the behavior is basically the same. No "request" scope.

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

You know I think we've kinda strayed from the discussion. Sorry about that.
Jochem and Dave we obviously feel different on the issue, what was that
again? Oh wait I remember.

Sorry group. Sorry Mike I won't say "move it to CF Community" but I will
shut my cake hole on this issue :)

-Original Message-
From: John Wilker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:14 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades


And in general a moot point on this list. Have any of use ever posted
innappropriate links? Or otherwise attempted to fool or befuddle our friends
here?

-Original Message-
From: Benjamin S. Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:49 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades


> > Not to mention http://blahblah.com/myblahpage.cfm  takes a lot more
visible
> > space than _my link_
> 
> Which is nice, it allows people to see where they are going.

I agree. Unfortunately, when Outlook displays an HTML e-mail it doesn't
honor the Internet Explorer status bar. So, I can't tell what I'm about to
click. Nevertheless, this would seem to be a client specific issue, not
necessarily a problem with HTML formatted e-mail altogether.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057



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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

All of that seems pretty user specific. I guess your limitations should
hinder the group?

-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:05 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades


John Wilker wrote:
> Or you from using outlook or another client?

Why would I want to switch over long URLs when my current mail 
client supports them?


> Outlook has served me well for
> years on end. How about you switch?

I tested Outlook for 1 day and I discovered the following problems: charset
problems (not specified in the headers) attachment problems (fictional
attachments appear when using 
"begin  ")
IMAP problems (no server config autodetection)
NNTP problems (timeout on connections too short)

Not to mention that Outlook pretty much forces you to quote 
incorrectly ;-)

Jochem




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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Benjamin S. Rogers]

> > Outlook 2002 tries to "sense" these breaks and
> > remove them, but it isn't very good at it. If you can suggest an
e-mail
> > client that guesses correctly every time, I'd be impressed.
> 
> What is there to guess? There either are spaces or not.

Most e-mail clients break at around 80 characters regardless of whether
or not there is a space. Surely you've seen messages where a long (80+)
URL was broken two or more lines? I whole heartedly agree that they
shouldn't, but that's the way it is (I believe mostly because of legacy
UNIX clients that don't wrap). Outlook tries to sense an artificial
break and remove it before rendering the message. However, it guesses
incorrectly almost as often as it guesses correctly. Which e-mail client
do you use, and how does it handle such lines?

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Benjamin S. Rogers]

> I tested Outlook for 1 day and I discovered the following problems:
> charset problems (not specified in the headers)
> attachment problems (fictional attachments appear when using 
> "begin  ")
> IMAP problems (no server config autodetection)
> NNTP problems (timeout on connections too short)

Sounds like you tested Outlook Express (because Outlook does not have an
news reader)?

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

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RE: Best Approach to Storing Selections...

[Adam Reynolds]

> -Original Message-
> From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 15 September 2003 13:28
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: Best Approach to Storing Selections...
>
> Also, searching by category, event, and keyword are part of the plans
> for the "shopping" experience.  There would probably be only about 100
> photos
> of a typical event, such as a football game...so looking through all the
> photos,
> especially when they are photos of the person looking through
> them, wouldn't
> be too much of a hassle and time-consuming...
>
Wanna bet! Think about doing this on a 33kbps modem.




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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

And in general a moot point on this list. Have any of use ever posted
innappropriate links? Or otherwise attempted to fool or befuddle our friends
here?

-Original Message-
From: Benjamin S. Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:49 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades


> > Not to mention http://blahblah.com/myblahpage.cfm  takes a lot more
visible
> > space than _my link_
> 
> Which is nice, it allows people to see where they are going.

I agree. Unfortunately, when Outlook displays an HTML e-mail it doesn't
honor the Internet Explorer status bar. So, I can't tell what I'm about to
click. Nevertheless, this would seem to be a client specific issue, not
necessarily a problem with HTML formatted e-mail altogether.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057


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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jochem van Dieten]

John Wilker wrote:
> Or you from using outlook or another client?

Why would I want to switch over long URLs when my current mail 
client supports them?


> Outlook has served me well for
> years on end. How about you switch?

I tested Outlook for 1 day and I discovered the following problems:
charset problems (not specified in the headers)
attachment problems (fictional attachments appear when using 
"begin  ")
IMAP problems (no server config autodetection)
NNTP problems (timeout on connections too short)

Not to mention that Outlook pretty much forces you to quote 
incorrectly ;-)

Jochem



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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Doug White]

I do not see HTML formatted email on the really high volume list servers,
though.  The "Newsletter" types are usually HTML.

A text format with only an HTML footer is ok by me.  That would mean the server
would only accept test formats and then Mikey can add his banner ads at the
bottom when they get sent out.

==
Stop spam on your domain, use our gateway!
For hosting solutions http://www.clickdoug.com
Featuring Win2003 Enterprise, RedHat Linux, CFMX 6.1 and all databases.
ISP rated: http://www.forta.com/cf/isp/isp.cfm?isp_id=772
Suggested corporate Anti-virus policy: http://www.dshield.org/antivirus.pdf
==
If you are not satisfied with my service, my job isn't done!

- Original Message - 
From: "Jochem van Dieten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades


| Benjamin S. Rogers wrote:
| >>
| >>Most HTML generated by email clients is invalid. Most of it uses
| >>inappropriate methods. Sending email with font="-3" just because
| >>that looks nice on your system makes it illegible on my system.
| >
| > Well, Jochem, if text is illegible on your system at that size, then
| > hold down control and scroll up.
|
| Control + actually.
|
| But unsubscribing is easier as doing that 10 times a day.
|
| Jochem
|
|
|
| 
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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jochem van Dieten]

Benjamin S. Rogers wrote:
> 
> Well, seeing as how I've written e-mail clients, I can't possibly
> imagine one that doesn't. Most mail clients which send mail break the
> line at around line 80.

Email clients should break at a space just before the maximum 
number of characters set by the user, with 998 as the hard 
maximum. If there is no space before the maximum, they should 
allow over the maximum to 998 characters.
Apart from that, there is always the option of a transfer encoding.


> Outlook 2002 tries to "sense" these breaks and
> remove them, but it isn't very good at it. If you can suggest an e-mail
> client that guesses correctly every time, I'd be impressed.

What is there to guess? There either are spaces or not.

Jochem



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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

For those that care.

Do I need to see all of
 http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=6365.5802.4

To know it takes me to unsubscribe? I trust Mike. If he has a link that says
unsubscribe I'll follow it and assume it doesn't lead to whitehouse.com

-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:43 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades


John Wilker wrote:
> Not to mention http://blahblah.com/myblahpage.cfm  takes a lot more 
> visible space than _my link_

Which is nice, it allows people to see where they are going.

Jochem




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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Benjamin S. Rogers]

> > Not to mention http://blahblah.com/myblahpage.cfm  takes a lot more
visible
> > space than _my link_
> 
> Which is nice, it allows people to see where they are going.

I agree. Unfortunately, when Outlook displays an HTML e-mail it doesn't
honor the Internet Explorer status bar. So, I can't tell what I'm about
to click. Nevertheless, this would seem to be a client specific issue,
not necessarily a problem with HTML formatted e-mail altogether.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Benjamin S. Rogers]

> > Well, Jochem, if text is illegible on your system at that size, then
> > hold down control and scroll up.
> 
> Control + actually.

I was speaking of the of the mouse wheel on a Windows system in Internet
Explorer, the normal behavior or which is scrolling.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

Or you from using outlook or another client? Outlook has served me well for
years on end. How about you switch?

-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:43 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades


Benjamin S. Rogers wrote:
>>Most(*) mail clients auto-hyperlink things that look like
>>http://blah.blah.blah - you don't need HTML for that.
> 
> 
> Yes, but most e-mail clients also have a problem with long URLs. HTML 
> e-mail would solve that problem.

What stops you from using an email client that does not have that 
problem?

Jochem




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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Benjamin S. Rogers]

> > Yes, but most e-mail clients also have a problem with long URLs.
HTML
> > e-mail would solve that problem.
> 
> What stops you from using an email client that does not have that 
> problem?

Well, seeing as how I've written e-mail clients, I can't possibly
imagine one that doesn't. Most mail clients which send mail break the
line at around line 80. Outlook 2002 tries to "sense" these breaks and
remove them, but it isn't very good at it. If you can suggest an e-mail
client that guesses correctly every time, I'd be impressed.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jochem van Dieten]

Benjamin S. Rogers wrote:
>>
>>Most HTML generated by email clients is invalid. Most of it uses 
>>inappropriate methods. Sending email with font="-3" just because 
>>that looks nice on your system makes it illegible on my system.
> 
> Well, Jochem, if text is illegible on your system at that size, then
> hold down control and scroll up.

Control + actually.

But unsubscribing is easier as doing that 10 times a day.

Jochem



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Re:Alternative QYSIWYG editors

[Mauricio Giraldo]

Hi

We developed this CF version of SPAW from Solmetra and it is GPL:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/spaw-cf

It has a nice interface and some nifty features. Works under Win IE only though.

- mga
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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jochem van Dieten]

John Wilker wrote:
> Not to mention http://blahblah.com/myblahpage.cfm  takes a lot more visible
> space than _my link_

Which is nice, it allows people to see where they are going.

Jochem



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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jochem van Dieten]

Benjamin S. Rogers wrote:
>>Most(*) mail clients auto-hyperlink things that look like 
>>http://blah.blah.blah - you don't need HTML for that.
> 
> 
> Yes, but most e-mail clients also have a problem with long URLs. HTML
> e-mail would solve that problem.

What stops you from using an email client that does not have that 
problem?

Jochem



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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Benjamin S. Rogers]

> > I don't know about you but That seems like an aweful lot of work
just to
> > emphasize a word, not to mention wasting a line.
> 
> I suppose you don't see any *emphasis* in this line either then? 
> If not, try a real email client.
> 
> > Jochem, I didn't get the point you were making.
> 
> Most HTML generated by email clients is invalid. Most of it uses 
> inappropriate methods. Sending email with font="-3" just because 
> that looks nice on your system makes it illegible on my system.

Well, Jochem, if text is illegible on your system at that size, then
hold down control and scroll up. If that doesn't work, then get yourself
a real Web browser.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Benjamin S. Rogers]

> Can anyone direct me to an email list that uses HTML over text?

Actually, I just checked, and just about every other mailing list I
belong to allows HTML formatting. This includes our mail server vendor,
several SQL Server mailing lists, and even Netcraft. The only exception
is a SourceForge mailing list.

This is not to say that everyone on those lists uses HTML formatting.
Most people don't. However, many do, and for the most part is
unobtrusive.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

Not to mention http://blahblah.com/myblahpage.cfm  takes a lot more visible
space than _my link_

-Original Message-
From: Benjamin S. Rogers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:22 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades


> Most(*) mail clients auto-hyperlink things that look like
> http://blah.blah.blah - you don't need HTML for that.

Yes, but most e-mail clients also have a problem with long URLs. HTML e-mail
would solve that problem.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057


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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Benjamin S. Rogers]

> Most(*) mail clients auto-hyperlink things that look like 
> http://blah.blah.blah - you don't need HTML for that.

Yes, but most e-mail clients also have a problem with long URLs. HTML
e-mail would solve that problem.

Benjamin S. Rogers
http://www.c4.net/
v.508.240.0051
f.508.240.0057

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RE: CFMX scope searching ?

[Tyler Silcox]

I just ran a test on CFMX 6.1 and I'm not sure if it's exactly the same or
not, here's the order I received:

1. variables 
2. url 
3. form 
4. cookie 
5. client 

...but: request, application, and query scoped values are not read.

Try:


Bob = #Bob#

Or:


Test=QueryNew("Bob");
QueryAddRow(Test, 1);
QuerySetCell(Test, "Bob", "query", 1);

Bob = #Bob#

Both examples throw an error. Is this how CF5 was? I always thought request
vars, at least, would creep a little into the local vars territory...

Tyler

Original Message- 
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:45 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: CFMX scope searching ?

> I remember hearing somewhere that CFMX searched scopes differently, 
> like maybe it wouldn't search scopes at all anymore, you always had to 
> use Form.name instead of just using 'name' and letting it find it in 
> the Form scope (I know it's best pratice to scope anyway).
> 
> Is there any truth to this or am I just making it up? Anyone have a 
> URL that states this?  I searched but couldn't find anything.

To the best of my knowledge, this isn't true. However, it'll take you about
five minutes to knock up an example which will tell you exactly what's going
on:




#foo#

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444


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OT: CFC-based GPL web HTML editor

[Mauricio Giraldo]

Hi

Just wanted to let you know we have posted on SourceForge a WYSIWYG 
web-based HTML Editor. It is in Beta development right now. It is quite 
stable and I'm sure you will find it useful (we looked all over the web for 
a good CF web editor and all are quite costly so we decided to port a really 
good PHP-based editor).

It uses CFC so CFMX is required. It will work in shared server environments. 
Win MSIE 5.5+ required.

If you want to contribute/submit bugs/whatever just post your messages in 
the corresponding SourceForge forums for the project. The project summary is 
in:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/spaw-cf

Regards
- mga

(Non-commercial only for now)

_
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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Bryan Stevenson]

LMAOso last week CF was dying and now all we care about is e-mail
formats...pretty fickle bunch ;-)

Bryan Stevenson B.Comm.
VP & Director of E-Commerce Development
Electric Edge Systems Group Inc.
t. 250.920.8830
e. [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-
Macromedia Associate Partner
www.macromedia.com
-
Vancouver Island ColdFusion Users Group
Founder & Director
www.cfug-vancouverisland.com
- Original Message -
From: "Claude Schneegans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades


> >>in conveying the
> sentiment of their thoughts, emotions, and surroundings. Some of us are
not
> so talented.
>
> Yes, and programing, especially in CF, can bring sentiments and emotions
even the best talented novelist would have hard time to convey ;-)
>
> 
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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jim McAtee]

Michael Dinowitz wrote:

> 2. I'm going to add in a link on each post to send the user directly to the
post
> in the archive. Should this link be before the message (a header) or after (a
> footer)?


Footer.  I've been on lists with added junk at the top and it's incredibly
annoying.  I don't really see the purpose of the link when you already have a
link to archive.


> 3. As an extension to the previous question, does anyone actually look at the
> message footers?


No.  Then again, I only have time to read less than 1% of all messages that
come through cf-talk.  As it is, I just skim through the meat of those
messages, so if the footers changed tomorrow, I doubt that I'd notice for
several months.


> 4. As an extension of the previous question, does anyone click on any of the
ads
> that are on HoF/FA? (such as the new MM ad)


I don't think I ever have.


> 5. Would people like the option to get their mail in HTML format?


No.

The problem I see with making this option available to even a few people on the
list is that it implies that you'll also be accepting HTML formatted postings.
Someone viewing those posts in text-only often sees a fair amount of detritus
from the HTML postings, even if their email clients attempt to clean it up.

Why you'd want to burden yourself and your mail server with the additional
bandwidth needs of HTML is beyond me.  Another list I'm on is a complete mess
due to the use of HTML.  I've seen posts as large as 35k with a single "Amen."
tacked to the top.  That's due to a combination of HTML and not trimming in
replies, but the use of HTML just compounds the problem.  After 6 or 8 people
reply in HTML without trimming, the posts grow enormously.



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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Claude Schneegans]

>>in conveying the
sentiment of their thoughts, emotions, and surroundings. Some of us are not
so talented.

Yes, and programing, especially in CF, can bring sentiments and emotions even the best 
talented novelist would have hard time to convey ;-)

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

Cuz it just happens here :)

-Original Message-
From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 2:40 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades


>>the WorldWide SQL Server Usergroup does.

All Microsft niews groups allow HTML Never heard of any complain.


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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Dave Watts]

> > Perhaps, but there are plenty of lousy novelists, and yet 
> > you wouldn't suggest to them that they use formatting to 
> > become better writers, would you?
> 
> This is why every novelist has an assigned editor. All the 
> novelist has to do is tell the story, and the editor does 
> the formatting before publication.

Uh, that's not what editors do. They edit. Typically, if you pick up a book,
all of the formatting within the book is the same. Editors rearrange
sentences, they suggest alternatives, they redline what they don't like,
they gripe at the author for missing deadlines, but they don't format squat.

And, while a good editor can make the difference between a good book and a
great book, the best editor in the world can't make a good book from a bad
writer's work.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: impersonate and cfdirectory

[Dave Watts]

> I'm in the midst of writing a component that takes as input 
> a unc path i.e. \\\servername.domain\\dirthis\\dirthat
> 
> and produces a list of files and directories based on the 
> credentials *of the user calling the page* (this will be 
> used in our intranet w/ Windows authentication).  
>
> ...
> 
> I don't see anything native to CF that'll allow me to do this 
> ... please correct me if I'm wrong. 

CF 5 allowed this using the CFIMPERSONATE tag; CFMX doesn't have any such
functionality.

> 1. Can this be done by importanting the java.io.file / 
> oranyotherobject? Does this object allow for impersonation, 
> or perhaps passing an authorized user token?

No, I don't think that'll be easily accomplished. The problem is that Java
doesn't know anything about your Windows authentication, to the best of my
knowledge.

> 2. If no CF, or Java, is .net my next best option?

This kind of thing is easily accomplished in ASP, actually, so I assume it
would also be easy in ASP.NET. Working with Windows authentication and
Windows interfaces is generally much, much easier using ASP or ASP.NET.

You could conceivably write a COM or .NET component that did the
impersonation, but you wouldn't have an easy way to pass the authentication
token from CFMX to it. I'm sorry I don't have a better answer, but that's
all I've found myself so far.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Claude Schneegans]

>>the WorldWide SQL Server Usergroup does.

All Microsft niews groups allow HTML Never heard of any complain.

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

Superfluous to you perhaps, maybe not to others. Some might grasp an email
better if it provides a visual queue here and there.



-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 2:28 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades


> Good point Dave (actually, cheap shot), but I think he would
> like to get something across without having to write a novel, 
> as I am sure we would like to understand it without having 
> to read a novel.

My point is simply that formatting isn't essential to comprehension, and in
many cases is completely superfluous. I suggest that it's even less helpful
for shorter texts.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444


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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Doug White]

|
| Perhaps, but there are plenty of lousy novelists, and yet you wouldn't
| suggest to them that they use formatting to become better writers, would
| you?
|

This is why every novelist has an assigned editor.  All the novelist has to do
is tell the story, and the editor does the formatting before publication.

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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Claude Schneegans]

>>Plain text certainly does *NOT* have to be like speaking in a monotone.
  ^

That funny: you used exactly 35 extra characters to do this,... compared to only 7 in 
HTML.
Should we conclude that HTML would save on the bandwidth? ;-)

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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Claude Schneegans]

>>There have been standard conventions for emphasizing text in email/usenet
for ages.

As you say quite judiciously, they have been there for ages.
It's about time we use something not so obsolete.

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Dave Watts]

> But some does - and most folks do expect (as they can in 
> their word processors) to, at the very least, bold, italicize 
> and underline (things we mimic badly in email with 
> _underlining_ and BOLDING).

I've never found a need to do this, in all the mail I've sent.

> In our situation the ability to set font families (monotype, 
> for example) would be very nice to offset code examples.
>
> I agree that it's sometimes taken to an ugly extreme (part of 
> my understanding that 99% of everything is crap) but it 
> definitely is useful to have some control over formatting - 
> and HTML (specifically using style sheets) is a very nice way 
> of doing that in text only environments.

Yes, it would be nice to be able to format code, but not being able to do so
is a small price to pay to avoid all the other HTML mail garbage. For a
mailing list, especially, the annoyance of HTML mail becomes very high, very
quickly.

> It's never a useful argument to say "I don't see a need for a 
> thing so it's not needed".  ;^)  At the very least in a world 
> of universal HTML mail you could set a personal style sheet 
> that stripped all formatting if that's what you liked.

I'd prefer not to waste CPU cycles on that, actually. I spend enough time
dealing with email as it is - I don't want to have to wait for my computer
to preprocess each message. I'm using Outlook 2002 (I know, I know, it
sucks, but I'm very happy with it), and it takes noticeably longer for my
machine to render HTML mail. I also have my machine configured to ignore
requests for images in HTML mail, so I just see empty boxes where they'd be
anyway. For one or two messages, it's no big deal, but for several hundred,
it becomes very annoying.

Again, I'm not advocating that no one use HTML mail. I am asking that I not
be forced to read it on a high-traffic mailing list.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Dave Watts]

> Novelists are professional authors with refined skills in 
> conveying the sentiment of their thoughts, emotions, and 
> surroundings. Some of us are not so talented. :)

Perhaps, but there are plenty of lousy novelists, and yet you wouldn't
suggest to them that they use formatting to become better writers, would
you?

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Dave Watts]

> Good point Dave (actually, cheap shot), but I think he would 
> like to get something across without having to write a novel, 
> as I am sure we would like to understand it without having 
> to read a novel.

My point is simply that formatting isn't essential to comprehension, and in
many cases is completely superfluous. I suggest that it's even less helpful
for shorter texts.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Michael Wilson]

Hi,

Novelists are professional authors with refined skills in conveying the
sentiment of their thoughts, emotions, and surroundings. Some of us are not
so talented. :)

Best regards, 
Michael Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

I wonder how they do it?


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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Dan O'Keefe]

Good point Dave (actually, cheap shot), but I think he would like to get
something across without having to write a novel, as I am sure we would
like to understand it without having to read a novel.

Dan
=== Previous Message Below ===


-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:39 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades


> Plain text is like speaking in a monotone. There is no
> emphasis on concepts, ideas, etc.. I can't stand trying 
> to get something across when I don't even have Bold to 
> work with :)

That's funny, I can pick up any novel and read it just fine, beginning
to end, and they readily convey their ideas without lots of text
formatting. I wonder how they do it?

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444


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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Chris Wigginton]

I vote YES on digest in HTML format if

1) it's an option

2) if you can organize the html output so that the
threads collapse and expand using JavaScript
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Re: CFMX and oddness in directory names

[Calvin Ward]

Collin,

Thanks a bunch! What about jobs, should that be an issue?

- Calvin

- Original Message - 
From: "Collin Tobin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:52 PM
Subject: RE: CFMX and oddness in directory names


> Calvin-
>
> (from Tom Jordahl, CFMX Engineer):
>
> The /services mapping can safely be removed from the JRun configuration.
This is a JRun default configuration to make using web services simpler.
>
> Since JRun is fully configurable, users can always choose to change or
remove these default mappings.
>
>
> Collin Tobin
> CFMX QA Engineer
> Macromedia®
> What the web can be.(tm)
>
> Announcing Macromedia DevNet Subscriptions
> Maximize your power with our new premium software subscription for
Macromedia developers
> Find out more: 
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:45 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: CFMX and oddness in directory names
>
>
> Still haven't found any tech notes on this issue or anything related, I'm
> beginning to wonder if this is just the machines I'm working on.
>
> If anyone can take a gander and see if this exists on their machines as
> well? In both cases I've got 6.1 going on a Win2k box.
>
> If you have a CFMX for J2EE on JRun,
> create a directory:
> :\\services
> create two files in this directory with any content:
> test.htm
> test.cfm
> See if they will run successfully
>
> If you have a CFMX standard install
> create a directory:
> :\\jobs
> create two files in this directory with any content:
> test.htm
> test.cfm
> See if they will run successfully
>
> It feels like it is a reserved word issue...
>
> Much appreciated if anyone can give this a whirl and see if the issues
exist
> for you as well,
>
> Thanks,
> Calvin
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Calvin Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:27 PM
> Subject: CFMX and oddness in directory names
>
>
> > Has anyone experienced any issues with CFMX and certain directory names?
> >
> > On CFMX for J2EE on JRun, no files under a directory named services will
> run (.cfm or.htm)
> >
> > On CFMX standard install, .cfm files will not run under a directory
named
> jobs, but .htm will
> >
> > Very odd...
> >
> > - Calvin
> >
>
> 
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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Michael Dinowitz]

Because when a line in outlook starts with the word begin, it symbolizes that
the rest of the content is an attachment. Stupid MS tricks.


> can anyone explain why .dat files are coming in to cftalk email?
> odd?
> tw
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John Wilker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:52 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades
>
>
> I was kidding. Outlook gets the job done. To each his own.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:44 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades
>
>
> John Wilker wrote:
>
> > Nope. But then again Outlook can only do so much.
> >
> > Sounds like you need a better system ;)
>
> Why would I need a better system? My email client is quite a bit
> better on standards support as Outlook (Express) is. I even can
> configure it to support different quoting styles. I couldn't even
>
> 
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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

What dat you mean? Couldn't resist. I don't get any, that I know of anyway.

-Original Message-
From: Tony Weeg [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:52 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades


can anyone explain why .dat files are coming in to cftalk email? odd? tw

-Original Message-
From: John Wilker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:52 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades


I was kidding. Outlook gets the job done. To each his own.

-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:44 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades


John Wilker wrote:

> Nope. But then again Outlook can only do so much.
> 
> Sounds like you need a better system ;)

Why would I need a better system? My email client is quite a bit 
better on standards support as Outlook (Express) is. I even can 
configure it to support different quoting styles. I couldn't even 


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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[J E VanOver]

If Dave leaves, I'm leaving too!

-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:34 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades


> This is another legend spread by Usenet groupies. Who wants
> to send huge images in mails? Any one can shout out bad words
> in plain text, but we still don't do it here, do we? With HTML
> any one can display a huge image, this does not mean we'll dot
> it.

Based on my experiences with some other lists which allow HTML mail, I'm not
sanguine about this. Plenty of people use background images, images in their
signatures, even ActiveX controls in their signatures! It takes me
personally a significantly longer amount of time to deal with those
messages, so I typically killfile the poster or abandon the list altogether.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444


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RE: CFMX and oddness in directory names

[Collin Tobin]

Calvin-

(from Tom Jordahl, CFMX Engineer):

The /services mapping can safely be removed from the JRun configuration.  This is a 
JRun default configuration to make using web services simpler. 

Since JRun is fully configurable, users can always choose to change or remove these 
default mappings.  


Collin Tobin
CFMX QA Engineer
Macromedia®
What the web can be.(tm)

Announcing Macromedia DevNet Subscriptions 
Maximize your power with our new premium software subscription for Macromedia 
developers 
Find out more:  





-Original Message-
From: Calvin Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:45 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: CFMX and oddness in directory names


Still haven't found any tech notes on this issue or anything related, I'm
beginning to wonder if this is just the machines I'm working on.

If anyone can take a gander and see if this exists on their machines as
well? In both cases I've got 6.1 going on a Win2k box.

If you have a CFMX for J2EE on JRun,
create a directory:
:\\services
create two files in this directory with any content:
test.htm
test.cfm
See if they will run successfully

If you have a CFMX standard install
create a directory:
:\\jobs
create two files in this directory with any content:
test.htm
test.cfm
See if they will run successfully

It feels like it is a reserved word issue...

Much appreciated if anyone can give this a whirl and see if the issues exist
for you as well,

Thanks,
Calvin

- Original Message - 
From: "Calvin Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:27 PM
Subject: CFMX and oddness in directory names


> Has anyone experienced any issues with CFMX and certain directory names?
>
> On CFMX for J2EE on JRun, no files under a directory named services will
run (.cfm or.htm)
>
> On CFMX standard install, .cfm files will not run under a directory named
jobs, but .htm will
>
> Very odd...
>
> - Calvin
> 

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Tony Weeg]

can anyone explain why .dat files are coming in to cftalk email?
odd?
tw

-Original Message-
From: John Wilker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:52 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades


I was kidding. Outlook gets the job done. To each his own.

-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:44 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades


John Wilker wrote:

> Nope. But then again Outlook can only do so much.
> 
> Sounds like you need a better system ;)

Why would I need a better system? My email client is quite a bit 
better on standards support as Outlook (Express) is. I even can 
configure it to support different quoting styles. I couldn't even 

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

I was kidding. Outlook gets the job done. To each his own.

-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:44 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades


John Wilker wrote:

> Nope. But then again Outlook can only do so much.
> 
> Sounds like you need a better system ;)

Why would I need a better system? My email client is quite a bit 
better on standards support as Outlook (Express) is. I even can 
configure it to support different quoting styles. I couldn't even 
begin  explaining what has been wrong with Outlook for 5 years 
already ;-)

Jochem




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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Pete Freitag]

Most Email clients send HTML messages as multipart messages, so you're
sending both a HTML and a plain text version. That adds to the bandwidth
quite a bit.

Looking forward to the RSS feed mike!

Also mike, why don't you add advertising to the pages in:
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/cache I hit those a lot in google
searches.


-
Pete Freitag
http://www.cfdev.com
Author CFMX Developers Cookbook
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0672324628/netgig-20


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Re: CFMX and oddness in directory names

[Calvin Ward]

Still haven't found any tech notes on this issue or anything related, I'm
beginning to wonder if this is just the machines I'm working on.

If anyone can take a gander and see if this exists on their machines as
well? In both cases I've got 6.1 going on a Win2k box.

If you have a CFMX for J2EE on JRun,
create a directory:
:\\services
create two files in this directory with any content:
test.htm
test.cfm
See if they will run successfully

If you have a CFMX standard install
create a directory:
:\\jobs
create two files in this directory with any content:
test.htm
test.cfm
See if they will run successfully

It feels like it is a reserved word issue...

Much appreciated if anyone can give this a whirl and see if the issues exist
for you as well,

Thanks,
Calvin

- Original Message - 
From: "Calvin Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:27 PM
Subject: CFMX and oddness in directory names


> Has anyone experienced any issues with CFMX and certain directory names?
>
> On CFMX for J2EE on JRun, no files under a directory named services will
run (.cfm or.htm)
>
> On CFMX standard install, .cfm files will not run under a directory named
jobs, but .htm will
>
> Very odd...
>
> - Calvin
> 
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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jochem van Dieten]

John Wilker wrote:

> Nope. But then again Outlook can only do so much.
> 
> Sounds like you need a better system ;)

Why would I need a better system? My email client is quite a bit 
better on standards support as Outlook (Express) is. I even can 
configure it to support different quoting styles. I couldn't even 
begin  explaining what has been wrong with Outlook for 5 years 
already ;-)

Jochem



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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

You have a very good point here. I think it would fall to all of us to
exercise some restraint in using html email. My emails are always rich text,
but never have graphics, scripts or any other crap. Text formatting only. 

Is it so hard to control ourselves that at the first chance we add a
stationary with animated gifs and tracking cookies and what not? The urge
has never taken me

I would also support removing offenders from the list, not hard. We do that
now I'm sure when some one posts offensive or otherwise grossly OT material
repeatedly. The same should apply to "The criminal use of html email" :)

Be strong!

-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:34 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades


> This is another legend spread by Usenet groupies. Who wants
> to send huge images in mails? Any one can shout out bad words 
> in plain text, but we still don't do it here, do we? With HTML 
> any one can display a huge image, this does not mean we'll dot 
> it.

Based on my experiences with some other lists which allow HTML mail, I'm not
sanguine about this. Plenty of people use background images, images in their
signatures, even ActiveX controls in their signatures! It takes me
personally a significantly longer amount of time to deal with those
messages, so I typically killfile the poster or abandon the list altogether.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444


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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

They have paragraphs leading up to and coming after that help set tone. They
also at least have italics, some do bold, but not many. Oh wait, They
probably use  :)

-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:39 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades


> Plain text is like speaking in a monotone. There is no
> emphasis on concepts, ideas, etc.. I can't stand trying 
> to get something across when I don't even have Bold to 
> work with :)

That's funny, I can pick up any novel and read it just fine, beginning to
end, and they readily convey their ideas without lots of text formatting. I
wonder how they do it?

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444


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RE: CFMX scope searching ?

[Dave Watts]

> I remember hearing somewhere that CFMX searched scopes 
> differently, like maybe it wouldn't search scopes at all 
> anymore, you always had to use Form.name instead of just 
> using 'name' and letting it find it in the Form scope (I know 
> it's best pratice to scope anyway).
> 
> Is there any truth to this or am I just making it up? Anyone 
> have a URL that states this?  I searched but couldn't find 
> anything.

To the best of my knowledge, this isn't true. However, it'll take you about
five minutes to knock up an example which will tell you exactly what's going
on:




#foo#

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Dave Watts]

> Plain text is like speaking in a monotone. There is no 
> emphasis on concepts, ideas, etc.. I can't stand trying 
> to get something across when I don't even have Bold to 
> work with :)

That's funny, I can pick up any novel and read it just fine, beginning to
end, and they readily convey their ideas without lots of text formatting. I
wonder how they do it?

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Dave Watts]

> This is another legend spread by Usenet groupies. Who wants 
> to send huge images in mails? Any one can shout out bad words 
> in plain text, but we still don't do it here, do we? With HTML 
> any one can display a huge image, this does not mean we'll dot 
> it.

Based on my experiences with some other lists which allow HTML mail, I'm not
sanguine about this. Plenty of people use background images, images in their
signatures, even ActiveX controls in their signatures! It takes me
personally a significantly longer amount of time to deal with those
messages, so I typically killfile the poster or abandon the list altogether.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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RE: Alternative QYSIWYG editors

[Matt Robertson]

Trey wrote:
>If you can say all the world is PC/IE then use activeEdit.

Given MS/IE's 90% market share, I almost can.  Non-IE usability isn't what it used to 
be in terms of system requirements, although its definitely something you want as you 
move into larger circles with product offerings. Certainly its something I'd welcome.

I started downloading the Ephox java component before I wrote this message.  The 
dialog predicts 5:50 is left to go before its here; and I'm on a 1.5mb DSL line.  


--
---
 Matt Robertson, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 MSB Designs, Inc. http://mysecretbase.com
---

--
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Re: CFMX scope searching ?

[Sean A Corfield]

On Monday, Sep 15, 2003, at 13:12 US/Pacific, Ryan Stille wrote:
> I remember hearing somewhere that CFMX searched scopes differently, 
> like maybe it wouldn't search scopes at all anymore, you always had to 
> use Form.name instead of just using 'name' and letting it find it in 
> the Form scope (I know it's best pratice to scope anyway).
>
> Is there any truth to this or am I just making it up?  Anyone have a 
> URL that states this?  I searched but couldn't find anything.

You're hallucinating. CFMX should behave just like CF5 in respect to 
scope lookup (except, possibly, in some weird corner cases).

However, it is certainly better practice to always use scope qualifiers 
when referring to variables...

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: using java.io.File with cfobject

[Dave Watts]

> I am attempting to use the java.io.File with cfobject and:
> 
>  action="CREATE"> 
>  
>newDir = jFile.init('servername.domain\\dirthis\\dirthat');
>newDir.mkdir(); 
> 
> 
> Here is what happens
> 1) the code appears to execute without issue
> 2) no directory is created 
> 3) no error of any kind is returned 
> 
> we have a win2k box and I am creating this dir on another 
> win2k machine using the UNC path.
> 
> Any ideas?

Are you able to successfully do the same thing using CFDIRECTORY? Are you
running CF as a user with rights to network resources?

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
voice: (202) 797-5496
fax: (202) 797-5444

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Re: ColdFusion 5.0 (INSIDETEXT Error)

[Joe Eugene]

Mark,

I just did a search on IIF,DE and Evaluate Man.. Its all over the place
in the code..
A few hundred Templates as well.. Very badly organized code.

> If a developer does this and the variable doesn't exist, it will generate
> the "insidetext" error.

I always get a "variable not found or variable misspelled error"

However i am not able to replicate the error with simple test code..

Do you have the source code to
http://dev.cfwebtools.com/showInsideText.cfm

Or do you have some test code?

Appreciate your help.

Thanks,
Joe Eugene



- Original Message - 
From: "Mark A. Kruger - CFG" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: ColdFusion 5.0 (INSIDETEXT Error)


> Joe,
>
> I have a clue for you.  I have seen this error before in a CFIF statement
> when a developers practice is to place a variable directly as a boolean
into
> the statement. for example:
>
>  ... instead of..   true>
>
> (see http://dev.cfwebtools.com/showInsideText.cfm )
>
> (this isn't always a bad idea if the variable is named appropriately
enough
> to make sense linguistically)
>
> If a developer does this and the variable doesn't exist, it will generate
> the "insidetext" error. The CF parser doesn't find the variable in its
> cascading scope check and therefore assumes you intended to insert it as a
> attribute to the  tag (or in your case the cfset tag).  Since it is
> not an appropriate attribute it tells you that your attribute doesn't
exist.
> The "insidetext" item is probably from the parser itself - as it crunches
> the code it finds the  brackets and parses through the
"insideText"
> of the tag - capice? Anyway, if I were you I would look for a shortcut
>  statement or statements like this:
>
> 
>
> Where there is no left hand assigmnent variable.  It's probably going to
be
> something inside of a function - perhaps an IFF / DE type expression.
>
> -Mark
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 10:33 AM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: ColdFusion 5.0 (INSIDETEXT Error)
>
>
> We have Some Old ColdFusion Applications on CF 5.0 ENT throwing out this
> error
> quite often and it spreads to other applications on the Server making
> ColdFusion 5.0 Un-stable.
>
> Has anybody else experienced these problems? I am not familiar with
> the code, it seems to be using Alot of Evaluate and CFForms and some other
> bad code..
>
> Appreciate any insight.
>
> Thanks,
> Joe Eugene
>
> ---
> Error Diagnostic Information
>
> Just in time compilation error
>
> An unknown attribute 'PRODSEARCH' has been encountered at document
position
> (50:9) to (50:18) while processing tag CFSET. This tag can only take the
> following attributes:
>
> INSIDETEXT
> The last successfully parsed CFML construct was a CFSET tag occupying
> document position (50:1) to (50:6).
>
> The specific sequence of files included or processed is:
> D:\inetpub\wwwroot\UF_AU\pc\orderentry.cfm
>
> Date/Time: 09/15/03 10:21:25
> Browser: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0)
> Remote Address: 208.48.12.13
> HTTP Referrer: http://www.unfranchise.com/uf/menu1.cfm
> -
>
> 
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Re: cfc vs cfinclude

[Sean A Corfield]

On Monday, Sep 15, 2003, at 13:09 US/Pacific, dwayne wrote:
>>> from a performance perspective, I'm wondering which is most 
>>> efficient.
>> option 2
> So what if I stored the object in the application scope.  Would this 
> make using a component structure more efficient than using cfinclude?

It wouldn't make enough of a performance difference to worry about 
either way.

(Why are people so focused on micro-performance issues instead of the 
bigger picture stuff?)

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Eric Dawson]

and then multiply 100 or 1000.

*jk* eric
^^

-Original Message-
From: Scott Wilhelm [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

And for all those arguing about the bandwidth...count the emails that have
been created since the inception of this thread...then start counting up
your bytes, and how many you've contributed :)


_
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Mosh Teitelbaum]

I was actually using 3 forms of emphasis on that one word:
1) ALL-CAPS
2) *Asterisks*
3) Underline
   ^

Others have pointed out using _underscores_ as a fourth means of emphasis.

--
Mosh Teitelbaum
evoch, LLC
Tel: (301) 942-5378
Fax: (301) 933-3651
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW: http://www.evoch.com/
 

> -Original Message-
> From: John Wilker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 4:02 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades
> 
> 
> I don't know about you but That seems like an aweful lot of work just to
> emphasize a word, not to mention wasting a line.
> 
> Jochem, I didn't get the point you were making.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mosh Teitelbaum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 12:18 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades
> 
> 
> Plain text certainly does *NOT* have to be like speaking in a monotone.
>   ^
> There have been standard conventions for emphasizing text in email/usenet
> for ages.
> 
> --
> Mosh Teitelbaum
> evoch, LLC
> Tel: (301) 942-5378
> Fax: (301) 933-3651
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> WWW: http://www.evoch.com/
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:14 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades
> >
> >
> > John Wilker wrote:
> > >
> > > Plain text is like speaking in a monotone. There is no emphasis
> > on concepts,
> > > ideas, etc.. I can't stand trying to get something across when
> > I don't even
> > > have Bold to work with :)
> >
> > Considering there is a better tag for EMphasis as Bold, I think you 
> > have just explained why HTML is a bad thing with the current state of 
> > email clients.
> >
> > Jochem
> >
> >
> > 
> 
> 
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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

Nope. But then again Outlook can only do so much.

Sounds like you need a better system ;)

-Original Message-
From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:07 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades


John Wilker wrote:
> I don't know about you but That seems like an aweful lot of work just 
> to emphasize a word, not to mention wasting a line.

I suppose you don't see any *emphasis* in this line either then? 
If not, try a real email client.


> Jochem, I didn't get the point you were making.

Most HTML generated by email clients is invalid. Most of it uses 
inappropriate methods. Sending email with font="-3" just because 
that looks nice on your system makes it illegible on my system.

Jochem




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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

Ah yes. Let's keep the decades old stuff going. Where did I put my DOS 5
disks. :)

It would be cool if outlook could take my bold text and make it * * and _ _
sounds like that would be good. Let the clients do the work.

I really don't care how outlook formats it :) as long as the word is bold.
Knowing m$ it's 

-Original Message-
From: Sean A Corfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 1:05 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades


On Monday, Sep 15, 2003, at 13:02 US/Pacific, John Wilker wrote:
> I don't know about you but That seems like an aweful lot of work just
> to
> emphasize a word, not to mention wasting a line.

Mosh's example is a little over the top. *bold* and _italic_ are 
actually the 'standard' forms of emphasis in Usenet, dating back more 
than a decade (now, that makes me feel old!). I've encountered several 
email clients that use this sort of annotation to embolden and 
italicize text - in fact, open up MS Word and you'll see it converts 
*bold* and _italic_ automatically for you!

Jochem's point is that  and  are better ways to add 
emphasis in HTML (rather than  and ).

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood


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CFMX scope searching ?

[Ryan Stille]

I remember hearing somewhere that CFMX searched scopes differently, like maybe it 
wouldn't search scopes at all anymore, you always had to use Form.name instead of just 
using 'name' and letting it find it in the Form scope (I know it's best pratice to 
scope anyway).

Is there any truth to this or am I just making it up?  Anyone have a URL that states 
this?  I searched but couldn't find anything.

I am on the digest list so please CC responses to me.

Thanks,
-Ryan
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Re: cfc vs cfinclude

[dwayne]

>> from a performance perspective, I'm wondering which is most efficient.
>>
>option 2
>

So what if I stored the object in the application scope.  Would this make using a 
component structure more efficient than using cfinclude?  
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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Sean A Corfield]

On Monday, Sep 15, 2003, at 13:02 US/Pacific, John Wilker wrote:
> I don't know about you but That seems like an aweful lot of work just 
> to
> emphasize a word, not to mention wasting a line.

Mosh's example is a little over the top. *bold* and _italic_ are 
actually the 'standard' forms of emphasis in Usenet, dating back more 
than a decade (now, that makes me feel old!). I've encountered several 
email clients that use this sort of annotation to embolden and 
italicize text - in fact, open up MS Word and you'll see it converts 
*bold* and _italic_ automatically for you!

Jochem's point is that  and  are better ways to add 
emphasis in HTML (rather than  and ).

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jochem van Dieten]

John Wilker wrote:
> I don't know about you but That seems like an aweful lot of work just to
> emphasize a word, not to mention wasting a line.

I suppose you don't see any *emphasis* in this line either then? 
If not, try a real email client.


> Jochem, I didn't get the point you were making.

Most HTML generated by email clients is invalid. Most of it uses 
inappropriate methods. Sending email with font="-3" just because 
that looks nice on your system makes it illegible on my system.

Jochem



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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

Always one at every party. :)

"This is dumb to me, move it away!"

;)

-Original Message-
From: Scott Wilhelm [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 12:19 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades




The arguement for & against HTML emails is getting really old...And in my
opinion is has been beaten to death.

I think all the pros & cons that are needed have been given, and this thread
should be moved to community or something.  





And for all those arguing about the bandwidth...count the emails that have
been created since the inception of this thread...then start counting up
your bytes, and how many you've contributed :)



Scott

> -Original Message-
> From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:14 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades
> 
> 
> John Wilker wrote:
> > 
> > Plain text is like speaking in a monotone. There is no
> emphasis on concepts,
> > ideas, etc.. I can't stand trying to get something across
> when I don't even
> > have Bold to work with :)
> 
> Considering there is a better tag for EMphasis as Bold, I think
> you have just explained why HTML is a bad thing with the current 
> state of email clients.
> 
> Jochem
> 
> 
> 

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[John Wilker]

I don't know about you but That seems like an aweful lot of work just to
emphasize a word, not to mention wasting a line.

Jochem, I didn't get the point you were making.

-Original Message-
From: Mosh Teitelbaum [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 12:18 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades


Plain text certainly does *NOT* have to be like speaking in a monotone.
  ^
There have been standard conventions for emphasizing text in email/usenet
for ages.

--
Mosh Teitelbaum
evoch, LLC
Tel: (301) 942-5378
Fax: (301) 933-3651
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW: http://www.evoch.com/


> -Original Message-
> From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:14 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades
>
>
> John Wilker wrote:
> >
> > Plain text is like speaking in a monotone. There is no emphasis
> on concepts,
> > ideas, etc.. I can't stand trying to get something across when
> I don't even
> > have Bold to work with :)
>
> Considering there is a better tag for EMphasis as Bold, I think you 
> have just explained why HTML is a bad thing with the current state of 
> email clients.
>
> Jochem
>
>
> 

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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Sean A Corfield]

On Monday, Sep 15, 2003, at 10:41 US/Pacific, Michael Dinowitz wrote:
> but also have the footer be clean and nice looking. This would mean 
> that the links would come out as links

Most(*) mail clients auto-hyperlink things that look like 
http://blah.blah.blah - you don't need HTML for that.

* By which I mean the most-used mail clients, i.e., most of the folks 
reading this list get this feature 'for free'.

> My only fear in doing so would be that it would alienate some of our 
> subscribers.

It would sure alienate me unless I could set a preference to turn it 
off again! :)

Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/

"If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive."
-- Margaret Atwood

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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Mosh Teitelbaum]

As little an interface enhancement as it is, that may be the coolest thing
I've heard of in some time.  I'm still not switching from Outlook ,
but Thunderbird keeps looking better and better.

--
Mosh Teitelbaum
evoch, LLC
Tel: (301) 942-5378
Fax: (301) 933-3651
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW: http://www.evoch.com/


> -Original Message-
> From: Jim Campbell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:26 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades
>
>
> That's funny - I use Mozilla's Thunderbird mail client, and when text is
> enclosed in *asterisks* or _underlined_ in plain-text, it auto-bolds the
> asterisks and similarly decorates the underlines.
>
> - Jim
>
> Mosh Teitelbaum wrote:
>
> >Plain text certainly does *NOT* have to be like speaking in a monotone.
> >  ^
> >There have been standard conventions for emphasizing text in email/usenet
> >for ages.
> >
> >--
> >Mosh Teitelbaum
> >evoch, LLC
> >Tel: (301) 942-5378
> >Fax: (301) 933-3651
> >Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >WWW: http://www.evoch.com/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>-Original Message-
> >>From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >>Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:14 PM
> >>To: CF-Talk
> >>Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades
> >>
> >>
> >>John Wilker wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Plain text is like speaking in a monotone. There is no emphasis
> >>>
> >>>
> >>on concepts,
> >>
> >>
> >>>ideas, etc.. I can't stand trying to get something across when
> >>>
> >>>
> >>I don't even
> >>
> >>
> >>>have Bold to work with :)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>Considering there is a better tag for EMphasis as Bold, I think
> >>you have just explained why HTML is a bad thing with the current
> >>state of email clients.
> >>
> >>Jochem
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
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RE: Passing a Struct to a Custom Tag

[Raymond Camden]

> Would I be correct in assuming that the way to pass the 
> struct, without the danger of the cfml tag altering its 
> contents should be:
> 
>  
> 


Correct. More info:

http://www.camdenfamily.com/morpheus/blog/index.cfm?mode=entry&entry=167


===
Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Mindseye, Inc
(www.mindseye.com)
Member of Team Macromedia (http://www.macromedia.com/go/teammacromedia)

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Blog : www.camdenfamily.com/morpheus/blog
Yahoo IM : morpheus

"My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda 


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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[jon hall]

Took the words out of my mouth.

I had to dig around, but I found the Netiquitte RFC.
Section 2.1.1
http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html

This was really required reading back in the day. I can remember
reading it over my 2400 baud :)

-- 
 jon
 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Monday, September 15, 2003, 3:18:11 PM, you wrote:
MT> Plain text certainly does *NOT* have to be like speaking in a monotone.
MT>   ^
MT> There have been standard conventions for emphasizing text in email/usenet
MT> for ages.

MT> --
MT> Mosh Teitelbaum
MT> evoch, LLC
MT> Tel: (301) 942-5378
MT> Fax: (301) 933-3651
MT> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
MT> WWW: http://www.evoch.com/


>> -Original Message-
>> From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:14 PM
>> To: CF-Talk
>> Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades
>>
>>
>> John Wilker wrote:
>> >
>> > Plain text is like speaking in a monotone. There is no emphasis
>> on concepts,
>> > ideas, etc.. I can't stand trying to get something across when
>> I don't even
>> > have Bold to work with :)
>>
>> Considering there is a better tag for EMphasis as Bold, I think
>> you have just explained why HTML is a bad thing with the current
>> state of email clients.
>>
>> Jochem
>>
>>
>> 
MT> 
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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jim Campbell]

That's funny - I use Mozilla's Thunderbird mail client, and when text is 
enclosed in *asterisks* or _underlined_ in plain-text, it auto-bolds the 
asterisks and similarly decorates the underlines.

- Jim

Mosh Teitelbaum wrote:

>Plain text certainly does *NOT* have to be like speaking in a monotone.
>  ^
>There have been standard conventions for emphasizing text in email/usenet
>for ages.
>
>--
>Mosh Teitelbaum
>evoch, LLC
>Tel: (301) 942-5378
>Fax: (301) 933-3651
>Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>WWW: http://www.evoch.com/
>
>
>  
>
>>-Original Message-
>>From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:14 PM
>>To: CF-Talk
>>Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades
>>
>>
>>John Wilker wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Plain text is like speaking in a monotone. There is no emphasis
>>>  
>>>
>>on concepts,
>>
>>
>>>ideas, etc.. I can't stand trying to get something across when
>>>  
>>>
>>I don't even
>>
>>
>>>have Bold to work with :)
>>>  
>>>
>>Considering there is a better tag for EMphasis as Bold, I think
>>you have just explained why HTML is a bad thing with the current
>>state of email clients.
>>
>>Jochem
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: (Admin) List upgrades

[Jeff Garza]

the WorldWide SQL Server Usergroup does... it works out fine.

http://www.sswug.org/

Jeff

- Original Message - 
From: "Adam Wayne Lehman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 12:04 PM
Subject: RE: (Admin) List upgrades


Use some elementary math and multiply that by 100-1000.

It _is_ a big deal.

Can anyone direct me to an email list that uses HTML over text?

Adam Wayne Lehman
Web Systems Developer
Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health
Distance Education Division


-Original Message-
From: Claude Schneegans [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 2:02 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades

>>Currently outlook takes about 5-10 minutes to download and sort them
all

So with HTML it will take from 15 to 30 more seconds ? Not a big deal.




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Re: Passing a Struct to a Custom Tag

[Jim McAtee]

Well, if it looks right...

I just recreated the little example I gave and it worked as I would have
expected (output= yes/20).  The 's don't alter the attribute.cfg.param
values.  The real app is a bit more complicated, but not much more so.  I'll
just have to debug it further.

Would I be correct in assuming that the way to pass the struct, without the
danger of the cfml tag altering its contents should be:




Thanks.


- Original Message - 
From: "Raymond Camden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 12:39 PM
Subject: RE: Passing a Struct to a Custom Tag


> Unless I'm missing a typo, it looks correct to me. Maybe cfparam gets
> confused by the path? What happens if you change the first cfparam to:
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> 
> ===
> Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Mindseye, Inc
> (www.mindseye.com)
> Member of Team Macromedia (http://www.macromedia.com/go/teammacromedia)
>
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Blog : www.camdenfamily.com/morpheus/blog
> Yahoo IM : morpheus
>
> "My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is." - Yoda
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Jim McAtee [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 12:36 PM
> > To: CF-Talk
> > Subject: Passing a Struct to a Custom Tag
> >
> >
> > How do you pass a struct as an attribute to a custom tag? (CF5)
> >
> > I've got an app structured something like:
> >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > #attributes.cfg.param1#
> > #attributes.cfg.param2#
> > 
> >
> > And always get as output
> >
> > no
> > 100
> >
> > I realize that I haven't yet dealt with the issue of CF
> > passing structs by reference, but it seems that the 
> > tags shouldn't alter the variables in this instance.
> > Obviously I'm doing something else wrong.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
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RE: (Admin) List upgrades

[Scott Wilhelm]

The arguement for & against HTML emails is getting really old...And in my opinion is 
has been beaten to death.

I think all the pros & cons that are needed have been given, and this thread should be 
moved to community or something.  





And for all those arguing about the bandwidth...count the emails that have been 
created since the inception of this thread...then start counting up your bytes, and 
how many you've contributed :)



Scott

> -Original Message-
> From: Jochem van Dieten [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 3:14 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: (Admin) List upgrades
> 
> 
> John Wilker wrote:
> > 
> > Plain text is like speaking in a monotone. There is no 
> emphasis on concepts,
> > ideas, etc.. I can't stand trying to get something across 
> when I don't even
> > have Bold to work with :)
> 
> Considering there is a better tag for EMphasis as Bold, I think 
> you have just explained why HTML is a bad thing with the current 
> state of email clients.
> 
> Jochem
> 
> 
> 
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