Re: [cmake-developers] Using CMake as a package manager vs using a dedicated package management tool (like Conan)
Correction: *I haven't tried this yet, but I am hoping it will work well* - Pull Put my sub-projects (my own custom libraries) into their own independent git repos and pull them into my main project using "FetchContent". Then when I run "FetchContent" it will checkout the sub-projects and I will have all of the source code available. I am hoping if I do this any changes I make to the sub-projects can easily be committed and pushed back to their own independent repositories. On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 10:33 AM Timothy Wrona wrote: > Hi Craig, > > Thank you for the detailed description! > > To answer some of your questions: > >- This project will not be incorporated into a Linux distribution, >however I would like to keep it cross platform and it should work on >Windows, Mac, and Linux. >- All of the pieces of the project that I am writing myself are using >CMake, but I do have some dependencies on external libs such as >"googletest" and "boost". Conan does seem to make using these external >dependencies very simple - especially since I am using MinGW to do my >compilation and "googletest" doesn't seem to compile out of the box on >MinGW without passing specific flags to the compiler. With Conan I get a >pre-compiled binary so it just works out of the box. >- At the current time, this project does not have many dependencies, >although it will likely grow quite large. I don't believe the external 3rd >party dependencies will need to update frequently, but all of the libraries >I am writing for the project will likely change quite a bit throughout >working on the project. I would also like to be able to compile these >libraries independently for reuse in other projects. >- I intend to support as many platforms/compilers as possible, I am >currently using Qt as my dev environment which allows me to >install/configure multiple compilers and try builds with each one - this >way I can at least do a build with both MinGW and msvc very quickly. >- I would like to support tools like sanitizers and code refactoring >tools at least within my own libraries (not necessarily with any of the 3rd >party libs) >- I would like past releases to be repeatable/rebuildable as much as >possible, although when the compiler is upgraded it is understandable that >past versions may have issues. I don't have much understanding of CI >systems at this point and it is something I have been trying to become more >familiar with. I'd like to avoid having multiple versions of the same >dependency, although I don't think having two versions of "googletest" for >two separate sub-projects that don't depend on each other would cause any >issues. > - I imagine Conan would make past releases more repeatable since > you can fetch binary packages instead of needing to rebuild from source > and > package versions are always explicit. > > I am currently the only developer working on the project, but I would > still like to find the most efficient method of managing packages for my > particular situation since it will likely save me a lot of pain down the > road if I get it right up-front. This project is in the situation where I > have a set of different sub-projects (libraries) that all need to be able > to be compiled independently for re-use, but I have a main project that > will use them all. All of these projects have their own dependencies (some > of them 3rd party, some of them written by me). The 3rd party libs will > likely rarely change, but the ones written by me may change quite > frequently. > > This is an approach I was thinking about taking: > >- *So far I have tried this and it is working well* - Manage 3rd party >libs with Conan, since I don't need to see the source and it's quite >convenient to not need to recompile them this seems to work pretty well. >Using "FetchContent" on 3rd party libs and then attempting to compile them >yourself can sometimes be tricky (for example "googletest" requires special >compiler flags to be compiled with MinGW.) It also ensures that if two >projects ask for the same version of a dependency I get only one copy even >if the projects are built entirely independent of each other. >- *I haven't tried this yet, but I am hoping it will work well* - Pull >my sub-projects (my own custom libraries) into their own independent git >repos and pull them into my main project using "FetchContent". Then when I >run "FetchContent" it will checkout the sub-projects and I will have all of >the source code available. I am hoping if I do this any changes I make to >the sub-projects can easily be committed and pushed back to their own >independent repositories. >- The alternative to this would be to put my own sub-projects into > their own Conan packages and use Conan to get them from the main > project. >
Re: [cmake-developers] Using CMake as a package manager vs using a dedicated package management tool (like Conan)
Hi Craig, Thank you for the detailed description! To answer some of your questions: - This project will not be incorporated into a Linux distribution, however I would like to keep it cross platform and it should work on Windows, Mac, and Linux. - All of the pieces of the project that I am writing myself are using CMake, but I do have some dependencies on external libs such as "googletest" and "boost". Conan does seem to make using these external dependencies very simple - especially since I am using MinGW to do my compilation and "googletest" doesn't seem to compile out of the box on MinGW without passing specific flags to the compiler. With Conan I get a pre-compiled binary so it just works out of the box. - At the current time, this project does not have many dependencies, although it will likely grow quite large. I don't believe the external 3rd party dependencies will need to update frequently, but all of the libraries I am writing for the project will likely change quite a bit throughout working on the project. I would also like to be able to compile these libraries independently for reuse in other projects. - I intend to support as many platforms/compilers as possible, I am currently using Qt as my dev environment which allows me to install/configure multiple compilers and try builds with each one - this way I can at least do a build with both MinGW and msvc very quickly. - I would like to support tools like sanitizers and code refactoring tools at least within my own libraries (not necessarily with any of the 3rd party libs) - I would like past releases to be repeatable/rebuildable as much as possible, although when the compiler is upgraded it is understandable that past versions may have issues. I don't have much understanding of CI systems at this point and it is something I have been trying to become more familiar with. I'd like to avoid having multiple versions of the same dependency, although I don't think having two versions of "googletest" for two separate sub-projects that don't depend on each other would cause any issues. - I imagine Conan would make past releases more repeatable since you can fetch binary packages instead of needing to rebuild from source and package versions are always explicit. I am currently the only developer working on the project, but I would still like to find the most efficient method of managing packages for my particular situation since it will likely save me a lot of pain down the road if I get it right up-front. This project is in the situation where I have a set of different sub-projects (libraries) that all need to be able to be compiled independently for re-use, but I have a main project that will use them all. All of these projects have their own dependencies (some of them 3rd party, some of them written by me). The 3rd party libs will likely rarely change, but the ones written by me may change quite frequently. This is an approach I was thinking about taking: - *So far I have tried this and it is working well* - Manage 3rd party libs with Conan, since I don't need to see the source and it's quite convenient to not need to recompile them this seems to work pretty well. Using "FetchContent" on 3rd party libs and then attempting to compile them yourself can sometimes be tricky (for example "googletest" requires special compiler flags to be compiled with MinGW.) It also ensures that if two projects ask for the same version of a dependency I get only one copy even if the projects are built entirely independent of each other. - *I haven't tried this yet, but I am hoping it will work well* - Pull my sub-projects (my own custom libraries) into their own independent git repos and pull them into my main project using "FetchContent". Then when I run "FetchContent" it will checkout the sub-projects and I will have all of the source code available. I am hoping if I do this any changes I make to the sub-projects can easily be committed and pushed back to their own independent repositories. - The alternative to this would be to put my own sub-projects into their own Conan packages and use Conan to get them from the main project. But I am thinking since they will change frequently, "FetchContent" may be a better fit for this scenario. - Maybe when the sub-project libraries reach a mature and stable release they should be packaged into Conan and fetched in the main project from Conan at that point? Let me know what you think! :) On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 5:56 AM Craig Scott wrote: > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 12:46 PM Timothy Wrona > wrote: > >> I have been working on a new C++ project and I am trying to decide >> whether I should use CMake as my package management system or if I should >> use a dedicated package management tool such as Conan. >> >> For more information
Re: [cmake-developers] Using CMake as a package manager vs using a dedicated package management tool (like Conan)
On Tue, Feb 19, 2019 at 12:46 PM Timothy Wrona wrote: > I have been working on a new C++ project and I am trying to decide whether > I should use CMake as my package management system or if I should use a > dedicated package management tool such as Conan. > > For more information on Conan see: https://conan.io/ > > I am trying to understand the main difference between using Conan to > manage dependencies vs using CMakes "FetchContent" module. Are there any > compelling reasons to prefer something like Conan? > Excellent question, one that I think deserves a more detailed answer than I can provide here, but I'll try to hit the main points as I see them. Personally, I think there is no "right answer" or "one size fits all" when it comes to package management for a CMake project. What works well for one situation, person or project may not be as convenient or suitable for another. There are competing needs and views, some of which are personal preferences, others are hard requirements from things like OS distribution policies for packaging. Even just the maturity of a project can have a big influence on how developers may prefer to handle its dependencies and handle it as a dependency of other projects. The key thing for me is that the developer should ideally have choices when it comes to this area. If a project hard-codes that its dependencies must come from a particular provider (whether that be Conan, Hunter, vcpkg or some other system), this might not be compatible with what the developer's situation allows. You would need to weigh up whether it makes sense to lock the developer into a particular package manager if they want to use your project or not. An inappropriate choice here can mean lower adoption of the project as some may reject it for consideration based on this point alone. If instead a project relies only on find_package() to find its dependencies, then it is up to the developer to ensure they are all available. This could be done using whatever package manager the developer finds convenient, or they could build the dependency projects from source individually or they might set up a superbuild parent project that builds the dependencies in the required order and makes dependees available to dependers. This gives good flexibility at the cost of more responsibility on the developer than perhaps some would want (again, it will be highly situation-dependent). A drawback with find_package() is that it assumes you actually have a packageable project. For a variety of reasons, this may not be the case. Consider a large, complex project in its early stages and where multiple teams are working on different subprojects which all get combined into some larger whole. Each of the subprojects may need to be able to build on their own with their own smaller subset of dependencies, but they also need to be able to be incorporated into a larger build (think of different teams working on core toolkits, rendering engines, different algorithm strategies, multiple GUI applications, backend components, etc). No-one may know yet how it should get packaged up and everyone might be focused on just getting a minimal viable prototype up and running as a technical demonstrator. For a case like that, neither find_package() nor a package manager really fits the workflow. In this situation though, FetchContent is a perfect fit, since it doesn't require any packaging to already be in place, it needs no external tools other than CMake and it gives each project precise control over its dependencies down to the individual commit to bring in for each one. With the above in mind, perhaps the following few questions may be helpful in clarifying what your constraints are and maybe steering you more toward one way or the other: - Will the project be incorporated into a Linux distribution at some point (not just be installed on Linux, but be part of the actual Linux distribution as provided by its own native package manager)? If so, I would expect this would pretty much eliminate using any package manager and instead require that you use find_package() to find all dependencies. - Are any of the dependencies of the project using a build system other than CMake? If so, they tend to take a bit more work to incorporate into a build via ExternalProject or FetchContent. If you can assume the developer provides those somehow, bringing them in by find_package() shifts responsibility for building them from the project to the developer (or whatever package manager they choose to use). This might be anywhere from entirely appropriate to entirely problematic depending on who your intended audience is. - How many dependencies does the project have and what is the maturity of each one? Will the project need to update any of those dependencies often (are they also being actively developed, do you need to follow recent work in them)? What will be the impact on developers working on the pro
[cmake-developers] Using CMake as a package manager vs using a dedicated package management tool (like Conan)
I have been working on a new C++ project and I am trying to decide whether I should use CMake as my package management system or if I should use a dedicated package management tool such as Conan. For more information on Conan see: https://conan.io/ I am trying to understand the main difference between using Conan to manage dependencies vs using CMakes "FetchContent" module. Are there any compelling reasons to prefer something like Conan? -- Powered by www.kitware.com Please keep messages on-topic and check the CMake FAQ at: http://www.cmake.org/Wiki/CMake_FAQ Kitware offers various services to support the CMake community. For more information on each offering, please visit: CMake Support: http://cmake.org/cmake/help/support.html CMake Consulting: http://cmake.org/cmake/help/consulting.html CMake Training Courses: http://cmake.org/cmake/help/training.html Visit other Kitware open-source projects at http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe: https://cmake.org/mailman/listinfo/cmake-developers