Re: private mailing list for committers
On Tue, 5 Oct 2004, Santiago Gala wrote: What would be the advantages? The only advantage I can think of is that many hypothetical conversations on members@ that want to be private would be able to include committers. Every now and then I see an email that says "We should discuss this on members" and I realise the thread is about to leave my awareness. That said, many of these threads probably should be only going to members as it's their role to make such shareholder style decisions so I don't think having this list available would make any difference except to confuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm a -0. Suggestion: "world at apache dot org" world does not fit well with a closed list. If it got approved (and I'm against it) I would rather choose a different name. Agreed. -1 on [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hen - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: private mailing list for committers
El mar, 05-10-2004 a las 09:45 +0900, Tetsuya Kitahata escribiÃ: > Hi, > > > Thanks for posting the clarification - which would puts me in favor of > > Felipe Leme's suggestion for a private list for committers. > > > > Steve. > > +1 -- I'm in favor, too. > What would be the advantages? - I will not use even [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] for any truly confidential issue. Lists with 130+ people inside are nos trustable WRT confidentiality (1300+ people would be almost guarantee of fast filtration). OTOH, having a restricted but public list is beneficial for the community as a whole (people can observe how we do operate from the outside) and reduces "bad" behavior (people will feel ashamed about certain messages and will refrain for sending them knowing that they will be archived). There are only a few restricted lists in the ASF: - pmc lists - members - board - fundraising, press and concom and all those lists are open to all members (130+ currently and growing). The reason why those are confidential is because there are value judgement about people occasionally. Also, in some cases, discussions about the behavior of other companies or group which, while not beeing exactly confidential, people would rather not make in a public forum. A list "private" to 1300 people is not confidential no matter how you look at it, so the only reason that I can see to make it a private list would be for participants to avoid getting ashamed about "bad" behavior in public. If this is indeed the reason, I'm strongly -1. If it is not, I would like someone to explain me the benefits of having a "private" list with 1300 subscribers. This discussion, BTW, is almost the same as the one that other people listed, just before ApacheCON 2002, which ended with community being restricted to post but archived. I would vote completely open, and in fact I offered myself as a relay for any non-committer wanted to expose ideas in the community@apache.org list, and I do it again. (I reserve the right to not relay anything which scores over 5 in my spamassassin setting :-P ) > Suggestion: > > "world at apache dot org" > world does not fit well with a closed list. If it got approved (and I'm against it) I would rather choose a different name. > Regards -- Santiago Gala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> High Sierra Technology, SLU signature.asc Description: Esta parte del mensaje =?ISO-8859-1?Q?est=E1?= firmada digitalmente
Re: private mailing list for committers
Hi, > Thanks for posting the clarification - which would puts me in favor of > Felipe Leme's suggestion for a private list for committers. > > Steve. +1 -- I'm in favor, too. Suggestion: "world at apache dot org" Cheers, - Tetsuya Kitahata -- Terra-International (Independent) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (subject should be written in ASCII only) smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: private mailing list for committers (Was: Apache CommunityWorldwide -- again)
> -Original Message- > From: Sander Temme [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 04 October 2004 05:27 > To: community@apache.org > Subject: Re: private mailing list for committers (Was: Apache > CommunityWorldwide -- again) > > > On Oct 3, 2004, at 7:22 PM, Stephen McConnell wrote: > > > list should be private or public and I seem to remember that a > > vote/poll > > was taken at that time - and it was my understanding that archives of > > this list would not be public (consistent with the statement on the ASF > > pages I referenced above). > > Here's the vote we took at the time: > > http://issues.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg? > [EMAIL PROTECTED]&msgNo=383 > > (and without public archives I would not have been able to find this). Thanks for posting the clarification - which would puts me in favor of Felipe Leme's suggestion for a private list for committers. Steve. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: private mailing list for committers (Was: Apache CommunityWorldwide -- again)
On Oct 3, 2004, at 7:22 PM, Stephen McConnell wrote: list should be private or public and I seem to remember that a vote/poll was taken at that time - and it was my understanding that archives of this list would not be public (consistent with the statement on the ASF pages I referenced above). Here's the vote we took at the time: http://issues.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg? [EMAIL PROTECTED]&msgNo=383 (and without public archives I would not have been able to find this). S. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.temme.net/sander/ PGP FP: 51B4 8727 466A 0BC3 69F4 B7B8 B2BE BC40 1529 24AF smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: private mailing list for committers (Was: Apache CommunityWorldwide -- again)
> -Original Message- > From: David Crossley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 04 October 2004 03:07 > To: community@apache.org > Subject: private mailing list for committers (Was: Apache > CommunityWorldwide -- again) > > Stephen McConnell wrote: > > Noel J. Bergman wrote: > > > David Crossley wrote: > > > > on what list can all committers discuss issues > > > > without fear of spilling the beans about something > > > > that is not yet decided by ASF? > > > > > > None that I know of. There is no private discussion > > > list for committers, unlike [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > My understanding differs. > > > > The community@apache.org mailing list is used by the participants in the > > Apache Software Foundation to discuss general topics of interest to the > > foundation. Participation in this list is only available to committers > > of the Apache Software Foundation. [1] > > > > Stephen. > > > > [1] > > http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-community > > Ah, but you missed the point Stephen. I was asking about > an additional "private" discussion list which cannot be > viewed by the public. There were two faux pas on this > community@ list which led to my question. I have also > been wondering this for ages, so it was timely to raise > the issue. Way back probably more than two years ago a list called reorg was created to deal with the subject of ASF reorganization. That was a most interesting experience during which a lot of opinions were exchanged about what this organization is. I could be wrong - but my understanding was that this list was established as a indirect result of that discussion - but I also remember lots of discussion about if the list should be private or public and I seem to remember that a vote/poll was taken at that time - and it was my understanding that archives of this list would not be public (consistent with the statement on the ASF pages I referenced above). Personally I would be in favor of this list serving as forum for all committers and for archives to me restricted to the same audience. Cheers, Steve. > > -- > David Crossley > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: private mailing list for committers (Was: Apache Community Worldwide -- again)
Sander Temme wrote: > Stephen McConnell wrote: > >> > >> None that I know of. There is no private discussion list for > > committers, > >> unlike [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > The community@apache.org mailing list is used by the participants in > > the > > Apache Software Foundation to discuss general topics of interest to the > > foundation. Participation in this list is only available to committers > > of the Apache Software Foundation. [1] > > That's true, but the list messages are publicly archived, for instance > > http://issues.apache.org/eyebrowse/ReadMsg? > [EMAIL PROTECTED]&msgNo=3686 > > There is no public archive for [EMAIL PROTECTED] Neither is there one > for [EMAIL PROTECTED], but that is used mostly for announcements > that impact all committers. Yes and committers@ is a mandatory list and not for discussion. The committers-private@ list would be optional subscription. -- David Crossley - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: private mailing list for committers (Was: Apache Community Worldwide -- again)
+1 for a private list I know this isn't a vote, but I agree we need such a list (as the committers list is supposed to be used only for 'emergencies'). In fact, I didn't even know that community was archivable... -- Felipe On Sun, 2004-10-03 at 22:07, David Crossley wrote: > Ah, but you missed the point Stephen. I was asking about > an additional "private" discussion list which cannot be > viewed by the public. There were two faux pas on this > community@ list which led to my question. I have also > been wondering this for ages, so it was timely to raise > the issue. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
private mailing list for committers (Was: Apache Community Worldwide -- again)
Stephen McConnell wrote: > Noel J. Bergman wrote: > > David Crossley wrote: > > > on what list can all committers discuss issues > > > without fear of spilling the beans about something > > > that is not yet decided by ASF? > > > > None that I know of. There is no private discussion > > list for committers, unlike [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > My understanding differs. > > The community@apache.org mailing list is used by the participants in the > Apache Software Foundation to discuss general topics of interest to the > foundation. Participation in this list is only available to committers > of the Apache Software Foundation. [1] > > Stephen. > > [1] > http://www.apache.org/foundation/mailinglists.html#foundation-community Ah, but you missed the point Stephen. I was asking about an additional "private" discussion list which cannot be viewed by the public. There were two faux pas on this community@ list which led to my question. I have also been wondering this for ages, so it was timely to raise the issue. -- David Crossley - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
