Re: [cvsnt] Betr.: Re: March-Hare message into my commit messages
Jan Keirse wrote: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] schreef op 10/11/2008 11:51:32: > >> Frankly, if you can't sustain the open source model anymore I'd suggest > you >> to go proprietary starting with evs. You won't improve sales annoying > users. > > If EVS uses CVSNT code that wasn't originally written by mach-hare they > can't close the source. CVSNT is under GPL, anything that's derived from It's a little more complex than that. The CVSNT part of EVS is a client of the EVS API (as is the SVN part and the TFS part). The API is a separate component (you can install the API without the CVSNT parts, although I don't think most people would bother).. so CVSNT remains GPL, the EVS API is LGPL to allow different licenses as required (and so that others can implement libraries on top of the API if they want to without worrying about licensing issues). In general new code gets put under LGPL except our own extensions which are under a commercial license. Tony ___ cvsnt mailing list cvsnt@cvsnt.org http://www.cvsnt.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cvsnt Upgrade to CVS Suite for more features and support: http://march-hare.com/cvsnt/
[cvsnt] Betr.: Re: March-Hare message into my commit messages
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schreef op 10/11/2008 11:51:32: > Frankly, if you can't sustain the open source model anymore I'd suggest you > to go proprietary starting with evs. You won't improve sales annoying users. If EVS uses CVSNT code that wasn't originally written by mach-hare they can't close the source. CVSNT is under GPL, anything that's derived from it must be under GPL except when it's the author of the code that changes the license (I think they would even have to strip all contributions others made to code they originally authored.) Kind Regards, JAN KEIRSE ICT-DEPARTMENT Software quality & Systems: Software Engineer DISCLAIMER http://www.tvh.be/newen/pages/emaildisclaimer.html";> http://www.tvh.be/newen/pages/emaildisclaimer.html "This message is delivered to all addressees subject to the conditions set forth in the attached disclaimer, which is an integral part of this message." ___ cvsnt mailing list cvsnt@cvsnt.org http://www.cvsnt.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cvsnt Upgrade to CVS Suite for more features and support: http://march-hare.com/cvsnt/
Re: [cvsnt] Betr.: Re: March-Hare message into my commit messages
Hi Jan, > Either from people running to subversion, the `real free' sollution > already sounds much more `sexy', or worse even if someone gets sick of it > and forks (although I doubt a fork would be successfull given that > everything is still under GPL.) I don't want to start a SVN vs CVSNT thread here, but SVN does have an upsell which includes a lot of the features we give away for free. Their approach is to limit the free product to the core and have companies pay if they need the extra features. They have a very different approach, but it is certainly centered around getting their product sold. > I requested my > company to get a license based on the polite mails on this list recently > and they did. Thank you! > I personally wouldn't ask it again if the message was not in a friendly > mail to the list but in an annoying message in my revision history. Unfortunately a lot of users are not like you. There are far more that will continue to use the free product and never seek to support the project for a number of reasons. This message will help those who are ignorant of the commercial product see it's available, and encourage them to participate. I don't fault our silent FOSS users. When I was still doing the corporate programming thing, I would seek out free or inexpensive products to improve my productivity. "Free as in beer" was always easy to try. There were dozens of closed source shareware time limited apps that I purchased because I had to, and others that were not time limited or ad-supported I used for years without paying for. I think there are a lot of users like me out there, who just need some gentle encouragement to contribute. I got interested in CVSNT and joined the list because it was a new concept to me and took awhile to get my head around it. I participated on the list only partially to 'give back', but mostly to solidify my own knowledge -- and it worked extraordinarily well. If CVS Suite was around when I started learning about CVSNT, and I had purchased it with the eBook*, it would have saved me countless hours of learning by trial and learning the wrong way. Take the cost of CVS Suite into the number of hours I spent learning, and you're looking at sweatshop child labor rates. There is a LOT of value in the product and services March Hare offers (yes, I get paid to say that, but it's true). ... And now to the big question ... If you have suggestions on how we can evangelize the CVS Suite and Pro products to get more sales in a less obtrusive way I would like to hear them. What triggers you decide to open your wallet or go through the pain of your internal acquisition processes? Keep in mind there are some options that are off the table: We aren't going to close/obfuscate the source, we won't purposefully add bugs, we prefer to keep core functionality where it belongs (as close to the server as possible), etc. * For those who don't know already, the eBook we refer to is titled "All About CVS" and is a 300+ page book included with CVS Suite that is focused on CVSNT/CVS Suite, not like a lot of the sources you get on the Internet containing outdated or conflicting guidance for using CVS and/or CVSNT. For example: Don't use flying fish branching, it's bad for performance and completely unnecessary with changesets and the promotion model. Best Regards, -- Glen Starrett Technical Account Manager, North America March Hare Software, LLC http://march-hare.com/cvspro/ 800-653-1501 x803 ___ cvsnt mailing list cvsnt@cvsnt.org http://www.cvsnt.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cvsnt Upgrade to CVS Suite for more features and support: http://march-hare.com/cvsnt/
Re: [cvsnt] Betr.: Re: March-Hare message into my commit messages
Jan Keirse wrote: > essentially replaced it. This has happened for other products. While > there's no license change involved here it is a policy change, the request > for financial support is in my opinion now not polite. I requested my > company to get a license based on the polite mails on this list recently > and they did. > I personally wouldn't ask it again if the message was not in a friendly > mail to the list but in an annoying message in my revision history. Friendly messages on the list reach a very tiny proportion of the users... I suspect most of them don't even know that this list exists. The product isn't any less free... we still do most of our work on public repositories that anyone can download and compile, and we still accept patches from anywhere. The difference is the builds that we make and support will have one small change in them, which amounts to little more than a gentle reminder. Tony ___ cvsnt mailing list cvsnt@cvsnt.org http://www.cvsnt.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cvsnt Upgrade to CVS Suite for more features and support: http://march-hare.com/cvsnt/
[cvsnt] Betr.: Re: March-Hare message into my commit messages
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schreef op 07/11/2008 15:43:36: > Clóvis Garcia Marcondes wrote: > > Tony, > > > > > > I got your point but should be nice at least to advise when you change > > the way the product works. I just asked because I´m testing the new > > version together with the CVS Suite Trial exactly to see if it is > > interesting for me to buy the comercial version and thought it could be > > a side effect of that. But if it is a new March Hare policy you should > > at least warned about that. > > > It was mentioned in the release notes for the release candidates and the > final release notes. > > It's really not a change in the way the product works.. it still does > exactly the same things as always - I'm against any kind of crippling or > time limiting in software where people may be relying on it continuing > to work. True but it's annoying. It adds commercial messages unrelated to the code in the repository that will likely stay there forever, even when the user eventually buys the product (ok, it's possible to change the message, but anyway). I understand the need to get people to invest in cvsnt, but I too fear this is going to have an adverse effect. Either from people running to subversion, the `real free' sollution already sounds much more `sexy', or worse even if someone gets sick of it and forks (although I doubt a fork would be successfull given that everything is still under GPL.) When X changed the license everyone ran to alternatives and X.org essentially replaced it. This has happened for other products. While there's no license change involved here it is a policy change, the request for financial support is in my opinion now not polite. I requested my company to get a license based on the polite mails on this list recently and they did. I personally wouldn't ask it again if the message was not in a friendly mail to the list but in an annoying message in my revision history. ps.: While we payed for a commercial license we are still just running the free version, we don't need support, nor do we need a special build, even if we have access to it. Getting a license was like sending a `thank you' greeting card. Kind Regards, JAN KEIRSE ICT-DEPARTMENT Software quality & Systems: Software Engineer DISCLAIMER http://www.tvh.be/newen/pages/emaildisclaimer.html";> http://www.tvh.be/newen/pages/emaildisclaimer.html "This message is delivered to all addressees subject to the conditions set forth in the attached disclaimer, which is an integral part of this message." ___ cvsnt mailing list cvsnt@cvsnt.org http://www.cvsnt.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cvsnt Upgrade to CVS Suite for more features and support: http://march-hare.com/cvsnt/
