Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 02:21:51PM -0500, Joseph Carter wrote: > On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 09:52:47AM +0100, Sami Dalouche wrote: > > If I had to change something in the Debian package manager, I would > > like it to use bzip2 instead of gzip, but this doesn't need a > > omplete reimplementation. The problem isn't technical, but it's been > > debated many times. I don't exactly know the problem w/ this compression > > except it saves time ;) > > Anyway, if you think something isn't perfect, you can always help the > > development of Dpkg, or apt. > > I think if dpkg used some sort of hashed database index it would be a hell > of a lot nicer to people's CPUs and memory. Whether or not that requires > a re-implemenetation of dpkg or not isn't for me to say since I haven't > looked at dpkg's code in 3 years. personally the plain text database is one of dpkg's greatest assets. its a royal pain to repair a binary database when it gets fscked. and yes i have already been saved from a total reinstall through the ability to fix dpkg's broken database with a text editor. if your talking about a different database then nevermind. -- Ethan Benson http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/ pgpyymQq7oXuH.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
"Dwayne C . Litzenberger" wrote: > I wrote.. > > > > It should be re-usable as a library for implementing packages/modules > > for PLs· > > Erm, now I'm getting confused. I assume you mean that this package manager > should also be a framework for loadable modules. Isn't that way outside the > scope of a package manager? Can you give me an example? No. I don't think all the things a loader/linker does is useful here. But I do think that in a language that supports modularity, there would be a lot of common things a package manager ought to support. The most obvious and important being dependency information. Which modules use which modules? Less obvious perhaps a recursive namespace implementation. Think subpackages. You can view a package as something that exports/imports symbols perhaps. It doesn't have to be limited to files and directories. What I would want to see is a more abstract view of the process. In fact, one should view this as part of a software-engineering toolchain. It should play nicely with a corresponding build system, config system, etc. Off the top of my head of course. :) Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: wmaker build and AM_PROG_LIBTOOL
Answering my own question. Needed to install: libtool, libltdl0, libltdl0-dev, libproplist0-dev (maybe a little overdone). Cheers, Cristian On Mon, 25 Dec 2000, Cristian Ionescu-Idbohrn wrote: > > I'm now getting regular X freezes. Only thing I can pick up is: > > /usr/bin/X11/WindowMaker fatal error: got signal 11 (Segmentation fault) > > from ~/.xsession-errors. > > Trying to rebuild an unstripped wmaker from source, but automake makes > my life miserable: > > aclocal > aclocal: configure.in: 15: macro `AM_PROG_LIBTOOL' not found in library > make: *** [aclocal.m4] Error 1 > > Can anybody point me in the right direction? > It says: "not found in library". What library is the right library?
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
> open up a co-ordination page on sourceforge and start a public design > process. do not stick to a religious idea like "it should be written > in C, or in perl". I don't know. I've seem a number of projects fail because they spent too much time on discussion and didn't ever get down to business. I think I'll draft up a design first, then post it for scrutiny. I'll pick the language once the design is set. > if you're really doing it for univ./research institute you will need > some new features, otherwise the tool you're describing is a simple > python/perl wrapper script that provides a common CLI to those tools > that you mention. It would call 'em, UNIX way. I don't plan to work around various package managers: I plan to write one that's so much better that people will make the effort of manually redoing their packages. Also, by "academic", I meant that this project might not get anywhere useful, and that I don't give a damn for compatibility and kludginess. > So you need to give more details on what you want to achieve. Having > some concrete goals is very important in this free software enterprise. I agree, although I'm currently in the process of deciding what will be required of this project, so I get things done right. > > > > So my question is: What do you wish for in a package manager? > > > > That it isn't just a package manager. It should cook the coffee for me. > More importantly: > > It should be re-usable as a library for implementing packages/modules > for PLs· Erm, now I'm getting confused. I assume you mean that this package manager should also be a framework for loadable modules. Isn't that way outside the scope of a package manager? Can you give me an example? > That would make it pretty academic :) As a matter of fact I claimed > to Anthony Towns that I'd rewrite dpkg for a test of skill during > a friendly exchange. That's one of the features I really want > for my future implementation. What do you think? I think "friendly exchange" is an understatement. :-) -- Dwayne C. Litzenberger - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. - See the mail headers for GPG/advertising/homepage information. pgpvOwF7eTiwg.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 11:44:13AM -0500, Adam Lazur wrote: > Dwayne C . Litzenberger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) said: > > So my question is: What do you wish for in a package manager? > > Relocatable packages so a user can do an individual package install into ~ > without being r00t (this may be possible now with some dpkg foo?). > > The ability to install more than one version of a package simultaneously. Hmm. That could bring about some problems. It would require a large re-structuring of the filesystem hierarchy. Why would you need this; how important is this to you? > > Some intelligence for handling multiple machines. Like the ability to nfs > mount /usr and have the package manager understand what's going on. What do you mean? As it stands, I can mount /usr and /var over NFS and things will work fine. > > Oh, and a postinstall that'll do not only a diff on conf files that have > changed, but allow for a merge as well... Sounds like fun. I suppose it could be made to work to some extent. > > .adam > Thanks for the feedback! -- Dwayne C. Litzenberger - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists. - See the mail headers for GPG/advertising/homepage information. pgpuW1mJSapxH.pgp Description: PGP signature
wmaker build and AM_PROG_LIBTOOL
I'm now getting regular X freezes. Only thing I can pick up is: /usr/bin/X11/WindowMaker fatal error: got signal 11 (Segmentation fault) from ~/.xsession-errors. Trying to rebuild an unstripped wmaker from source, but automake makes my life miserable: aclocal aclocal: configure.in: 15: macro `AM_PROG_LIBTOOL' not found in library make: *** [aclocal.m4] Error 1 Can anybody point me in the right direction? It says: "not found in library". What library is the right library? Cheers, Cristian
Re: Close list
On 12/24/2000 13:13, Mark Brown at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Spam to the Debian mailing lists tends to be especially annoying since > the spammers always seem to hit each and every mailing list (or at > least, a large number of them), which makes each spam much more > noticable. The GIMP-user and GIMP-Dev lists suffer the same problem. I've seen very little SPAM on the Debian lists I'm on, but the GIMP lists see it all the time which is annoying! Anyway.. -- Carl B. Constantine ([EMAIL PROTECTED])Phone: 250.953.2650 Open Source Solutions Inc. Fax: 250.953.2659 4252 Commerce Circle, Victoria, BC. V8Z 4M2 http://www.os-s.com/ "I feel like a genocidal maniac when emacs asks me if I want to kill 10789 characters."
Re: Close list
On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 10:38:50PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: > Oh yeah. If only there was some way of automatic killing of such spams, sent > to more than X (say, 5) mailing lists... something that would remember the > last X-1 mails from the same domain name (or whatever) and kill off the > remaining attempts. Without killing all the messages crossposted to all the port lists (andu usually one or two others). :-) -- Mark Brown mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Trying to avoid grumpiness) http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~broonie/ EUFShttp://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/filmsoc/
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
Today, Wichert Akkerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Previously John Hasler wrote: >> Undo. > dpkg will support rollback at some point, when reiserfs supports > transactions. Even then, I imagine it to be difficult. What about installs that cross filesystem boundaries, etc. Either you'd have to have transactions on every fs then (and rollback each of them afterwards) or have a trans-filesystem transaction monitor, AFAIK. I'm afraid some serious non-trivial magicks are at work here. > Wichert. -- Andreas Fuchs, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, antifuchs Hail RMS! Hail Cthulhu! Hail Eris! All hail Discordia!
Re: Close list
On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 09:13:36PM +, Mark Brown wrote: > Spam to the Debian mailing lists tends to be especially annoying since > the spammers always seem to hit each and every mailing list (or at > least, a large number of them), which makes each spam much more > noticable. Oh yeah. If only there was some way of automatic killing of such spams, sent to more than X (say, 5) mailing lists... something that would remember the last X-1 mails from the same domain name (or whatever) and kill off the remaining attempts. -- Digital Electronic Being Intended for Assassination and Nullification
Bug#80433: marked as done (test, ignore)
Your message dated Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:12:51 +0100 with message-id <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and subject line Bug#80433: test, ignore has caused the attached Bug report to be marked as done. This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with. If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the Bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith. (NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what I am talking about this indicates a serious mail system misconfiguration somewhere. Please contact me immediately.) Darren Benham (administrator, Debian Bugs database) -- Received: (at submit) by bugs.debian.org; 24 Dec 2000 19:34:24 + >From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Dec 24 13:34:24 2000 Return-path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62] by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 14AGuV-0007IP-00; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:34:23 -0600 Received: from tomahawk (user-vcaurom.dsl.mindspring.com [216.175.111.22]) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (EL-8_9_3_3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA18412 for <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from tomba by tomahawk with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14AGuU-0006CV-00; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:34:22 -0800 From: Tomasz Barszczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Debian Bug Tracking System <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: test, ignore X-Reportbug-Version: 1.7 X-Mailer: reportbug 1.7 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:34:21 -0800 Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Package: general Version: N/A; reported 2000-12-24 Severity: wishlist This is only a test, should not be sent to debian. I used reportbug --email=ADDRESS. I apilogize if the --email didn't prevent it from being mailed out to debian. -- System Information Debian Release: 2.2 Architecture: i386 Kernel: Linux tomahawk 2.2.17 #1 Sat Nov 4 15:02:03 PST 2000 i686 --- Received: (at 80433-done) by bugs.debian.org; 24 Dec 2000 21:19:10 + >From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Dec 24 15:19:10 2000 Return-path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Received: from (chill.frosty-geek.net) [194.97.55.38] (postfix) by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 14AIXt-00059B-00; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 15:19:09 -0600 Received: by chill.frosty-geek.net (Postfix+IPv6, from userid 10) id 3981A11E6C; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:19:08 +0100 (CET) Received: by nautilus.noreply.org (Postfix, from userid 10) id 70F6535CB5; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:14:03 +0100 (CET) Received: by marvin.ibk.palfrader.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 10107383E; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:12:51 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:12:51 +0100 From: Peter Palfrader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Tomasz Barszczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#80433: test, ignore Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mail-Followup-To: Peter Palfrader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tomasz Barszczak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED], debian-devel@lists.debian.org References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; from [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 11:34:21 -0800 X-PGP: 1024R/D1A3A329 BB A2 DC FE D7 D2 09 BF 93 46 36 6F C1 A4 41 1A X-GPG: 1024D/94C09C7F 5B00 C96D 5D54 AEE1 206B AF84 DE7A AF6E 94C0 9C7F X-Accept-Language: de, en Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Tomasz! On Sun, 24 Dec 2000, Tomasz Barszczak wrote: > Package: general > Version: N/A; reported 2000-12-24 > Severity: wishlist > > This is only a test, should not be sent to debian. Didn't work, it went to Debian all way through. Merry Xmas! yours, peter -- PGP signed and encrypted messages preferred. http://www.palfrader.org/
Bug#80433: test, ignore
On Dec 24, Tomasz Barszczak wrote: > Package: general > Version: N/A; reported 2000-12-24 > Severity: wishlist > > This is only a test, should not be sent to debian. > I used reportbug --email=ADDRESS. > I apilogize if the --email didn't prevent it from being mailed out > to debian. --email changes your From address, *not* the address the report is sent to. RTFMP :) Chris -- Chris Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.lordsutch.com/chris/ Computer Systems Manager (Physics & Astronomy, 125 Lewis, 662-915-5765) Instructor, POL 101 (Political Science, 208 Deupree, 662-915-5949)
Re: Close list
On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 05:53:36PM +0100, Josip Rodin wrote: > It has been said in a related thread on a mailing list that shall not be > named :) that making a DNS lookup for hosts carrying the blacklists on each > delivery would slow it down. It has also been said that this isn't hard to > work around, though. It's not generally that bad - generally not even noticable when compared to all the other delays one is likely to encounter. > FWIW I like the X-RBL-Warning headers. Spam to the Debian mailing lists tends to be especially annoying since the spammers always seem to hit each and every mailing list (or at least, a large number of them), which makes each spam much more noticable. -- Mark Brown mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Trying to avoid grumpiness) http://www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~broonie/ EUFShttp://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/filmsoc/
Re: Bug#80433: test, ignore
Hi Tomasz! On Sun, 24 Dec 2000, Tomasz Barszczak wrote: > Package: general > Version: N/A; reported 2000-12-24 > Severity: wishlist > > This is only a test, should not be sent to debian. Didn't work, it went to Debian all way through. Merry Xmas! yours, peter -- PGP signed and encrypted messages preferred. http://www.palfrader.org/
Bug#80434: marked as done (sndconfig)
Your message dated Sun, 24 Dec 2000 14:53:05 -0500 with message-id <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and subject line Bug#80434: sndconfig has caused the attached Bug report to be marked as done. This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with. If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the Bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith. (NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what I am talking about this indicates a serious mail system misconfiguration somewhere. Please contact me immediately.) Darren Benham (administrator, Debian Bugs database) -- Received: (at submit) by bugs.debian.org; 24 Dec 2000 19:37:55 + >From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Dec 24 13:37:55 2000 Return-path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Received: from adsl-63-198-207-140.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net (localhost.localdomain) [63.198.207.140] by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 14AGxu-0007Tu-00; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:37:54 -0600 Received: (from [EMAIL PROTECTED]) by localhost.localdomain (8.11.0/8.11.0) id eBOJHgG08035; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:17:42 -0800 Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 11:17:42 -0800 Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Philip Venable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: sndconfig X-Mailer: bug-buddy 1.0 X-BadReturnPath: [EMAIL PROTECTED] rewritten as [EMAIL PROTECTED] using "From" header Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Package: general Severity: normal Version: Synopsis: sndconfig Class:sw-bug Distribution: Red Hat Linux release 7.0 (Guinness) System: Linux 2.2.16-22 i586 unknown Description: I used sndconfig to configure my Sound Blaster 16 pnp sound card. The tests worked fine, but when I try to play sound files all I get is static. I ran sndconfig a second time with the same results. --- Received: (at 80434-done) by bugs.debian.org; 24 Dec 2000 19:52:35 + >From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sun Dec 24 13:52:35 2000 Return-path: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Received: from cc659474-a.indnpls1.in.home.com (trinity) [24.22.127.210] by master.debian.org with esmtp (Exim 3.12 1 (Debian)) id 14AHC6-00087i-00; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:52:35 -0600 Received: by trinity (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4F89B139C4; Sun, 24 Dec 2000 14:53:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 14:53:05 -0500 From: Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Philip Venable <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Bug#80434: sndconfig Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> References: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; from [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 11:17:42AM -0800 X-Operating-System: Linux trinity 2.2.18pre15 X-No-Junk-Mail: Spam will solicit a hostile reaction, at the very least. Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Please learn to use your bug reporting tools. You sent this bug to Debian, not to Red Hat. On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 11:17:42AM -0800, Philip Venable wrote: > Package: general > Severity: normal > Version: =20 > Synopsis: sndconfig > Class:sw-bug >=20 > Distribution: Red Hat Linux release 7.0 (Guinness) > System: Linux 2.2.16-22 i586 unknown --=20 Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Free software developer dhd: R you part of the secret debian overstructure? no. there is no secret debian overstructure. although, now that somebody brought it up, let's start one :-) CosmicRay - why not, sounds like a fun way to spend the afternoon =3DD --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: 1024D/DCF9DAB3 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 iEYEARECAAYFAjpGVCEACgkQj/fXo9z52rPFNQCfTo5MiGkc+LNm3LS78ueW5vAL A/cAn3zaNts5PqJvyJHBbEmGcktH17es =snWy -END PGP SIGNATURE- --9jxsPFA5p3P2qPhR--
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
On Sun, 24 Dec 2000, Eray Ozkural (exa) wrote: > Joseph Carter wrote: > > > > I think if dpkg used some sort of hashed database index it would be a hell > > of a lot nicer to people's CPUs and memory. Whether or not that requires > > a re-implemenetation of dpkg or not isn't for me to say since I haven't > > looked at dpkg's code in 3 years. > > That smells like "re-write". The scent of painstaking coding. Mmmm. This is perfectly doable, and on my todo for dpkg 1.9. BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK Version: 3.12 GCS d- s: a-- c+++ UL P+ L !E W+ M o+ K- W--- !O M- !V PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP++ t* 5++ X+ tv b+ D++ G e h*! !r z? -END GEEK CODE BLOCK- BEGIN PGP INFO Adam Heath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Finger Print | KeyID 67 01 42 93 CA 37 FB 1E63 C9 80 1D 08 CF 84 0A | DE656B05 PGP AD46 C888 F587 F8A3 A6DA 3261 8A2C 7DC2 8BD4 A489 | 8BD4A489 GPG -END PGP INFO-
Bug#80434: sndconfig
Package: general Severity: normal Version: Synopsis: sndconfig Class:sw-bug Distribution: Red Hat Linux release 7.0 (Guinness) System: Linux 2.2.16-22 i586 unknown Description: I used sndconfig to configure my Sound Blaster 16 pnp sound card. The tests worked fine, but when I try to play sound files all I get is static. I ran sndconfig a second time with the same results.
Bug#80433: test, ignore
Package: general Version: N/A; reported 2000-12-24 Severity: wishlist This is only a test, should not be sent to debian. I used reportbug --email=ADDRESS. I apilogize if the --email didn't prevent it from being mailed out to debian. -- System Information Debian Release: 2.2 Architecture: i386 Kernel: Linux tomahawk 2.2.17 #1 Sat Nov 4 15:02:03 PST 2000 i686
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
Joseph Carter wrote: > > I think if dpkg used some sort of hashed database index it would be a hell > of a lot nicer to people's CPUs and memory. Whether or not that requires > a re-implemenetation of dpkg or not isn't for me to say since I haven't > looked at dpkg's code in 3 years. That smells like "re-write". The scent of painstaking coding. Mmmm. -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 09:52:47AM +0100, Sami Dalouche wrote: > If I had to change something in the Debian package manager, I would > like it to use bzip2 instead of gzip, but this doesn't need a > omplete reimplementation. The problem isn't technical, but it's been > debated many times. I don't exactly know the problem w/ this compression > except it saves time ;) > Anyway, if you think something isn't perfect, you can always help the > development of Dpkg, or apt. I think if dpkg used some sort of hashed database index it would be a hell of a lot nicer to people's CPUs and memory. Whether or not that requires a re-implemenetation of dpkg or not isn't for me to say since I haven't looked at dpkg's code in 3 years. -- Joseph Carter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> GnuPG key 1024D/DCF9DAB3 Debian GNU/Linux (http://www.debian.org/) 20F6 2261 F185 7A3E 79FC The QuakeForge Project (http://quakeforge.net/) 44F9 8FF7 D7A3 DCF9 DAB3 * o-o always like debmake because he knew exactly what it would do... o-o: you would ;-)
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
Federico Di Gregorio writes: > or am i missing something? In addition to the things Ben mentioned, dependencies and broken installs. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, Wisconsin
Re: Close list
On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 10:18:55AM +0900, Miles Bader wrote: > > > > Now maybe if we were using the RBL, DUL, and RSS lists... :-) > > > > GNU mailing lists (supposedly) use RBL, but in a mode where `spam' isn't > deleted, but rather just gets a header added saying `this message is > considered suspicious'. That allows individual recipients to do as they > see fit. > > That seems like it would be useful, and I fail to see how anyone could > object to it... It has been said in a related thread on a mailing list that shall not be named :) that making a DNS lookup for hosts carrying the blacklists on each delivery would slow it down. It has also been said that this isn't hard to work around, though. FWIW I like the X-RBL-Warning headers. -- Digital Electronic Being Intended for Assassination and Nullification
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
Dwayne C . Litzenberger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) said: > So my question is: What do you wish for in a package manager? Relocatable packages so a user can do an individual package install into ~ without being r00t (this may be possible now with some dpkg foo?). The ability to install more than one version of a package simultaneously. Some intelligence for handling multiple machines. Like the ability to nfs mount /usr and have the package manager understand what's going on. Oh, and a postinstall that'll do not only a diff on conf files that have changed, but allow for a merge as well... .adam -- Adam Lazur, Cluster Monkey 5FE0 559F 37E9 B8BB 8354 B5BF B70C 7A33 F7E9 0FF1
Re: looking for replacement for run (because of critical bug in
Matt Zimmerman ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) said: > less has a mode to select() and watch the end of a file, invoked with > the 'F' command. I don't think that it's currently possible for less to > enter this mode with a command-line flag, but I've often wished that it did, > so maybe this feature should be added to less. less +F file .adam -- Adam Lazur, Cluster Monkey 5FE0 559F 37E9 B8BB 8354 B5BF B70C 7A33 F7E9 0FF1
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 04:10:43PM +0100, Federico Di Gregorio wrote: > Scavenging the mail folder uncovered Ben Collins's letter: > > On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 03:50:41PM +0100, Federico Di Gregorio wrote: > > > Scavenging the mail folder uncovered Wichert Akkerman's letter: > > > > Previously John Hasler wrote: > > > > > Undo. > > > > > > > > dpkg will support rollback at some point, when reiserfs supports > > > > transactions. > > > > > > that's completely crazy. will you force anybody who wants rollback to > > > use raiserfs? generic applications like dpkg should be indipendent of > > > the fs used (as long as the fs provides an adeguate set of features, > > > surely i don't ask for a full-working dpkf on vfat...) > > > > Heh. Do you have any idea how hard it is to implement rollback? Without > > package support, it is almost impossible without a system layer handling > > it (snapshot of preinstall state, so you can revert completely back to it). > > * dpkg-repack the package (using the installed configuarion files [the only > the user can modify/replace]) > * copy .deb file to /var/cache/dpkg/rollback/ > * install new package > * dpkg --rollback remove current package (doea a downgrade) and replaces > all the files from the repackaged package > * dpkg --clean removes all the repackaged packages. You are missing the fact that the old package does not understand that the new package possibly setup some things (configuration settings, diversions, symlinks, removal of cruft, alternatives) that it cannot recover from. You are missing the fact that it is not as simple as replacing files. -- ---===-=-==-=---==-=-- / Ben Collins -- ...on that fantastic voyage... -- Debian GNU/Linux \ ` [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ' `---=--===-=-=-=-===-==---=--=---'
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
Scavenging the mail folder uncovered Ben Collins's letter: > On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 03:50:41PM +0100, Federico Di Gregorio wrote: > > Scavenging the mail folder uncovered Wichert Akkerman's letter: > > > Previously John Hasler wrote: > > > > Undo. > > > > > > dpkg will support rollback at some point, when reiserfs supports > > > transactions. > > > > that's completely crazy. will you force anybody who wants rollback to > > use raiserfs? generic applications like dpkg should be indipendent of > > the fs used (as long as the fs provides an adeguate set of features, > > surely i don't ask for a full-working dpkf on vfat...) > > Heh. Do you have any idea how hard it is to implement rollback? Without > package support, it is almost impossible without a system layer handling > it (snapshot of preinstall state, so you can revert completely back to it). * dpkg-repack the package (using the installed configuarion files [the only the user can modify/replace]) * copy .deb file to /var/cache/dpkg/rollback/ * install new package * dpkg --rollback remove current package (doea a downgrade) and replaces all the files from the repackaged package * dpkg --clean removes all the repackaged packages. or am i missing something? federico -- Federico Di Gregorio MIXAD LIVE Chief of Research & Technology [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian GNU/Linux Developer & Italian Press Contact[EMAIL PROTECTED] Best friends are often failed lovers. -- Me
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 03:50:41PM +0100, Federico Di Gregorio wrote: > Scavenging the mail folder uncovered Wichert Akkerman's letter: > > Previously John Hasler wrote: > > > Undo. > > > > dpkg will support rollback at some point, when reiserfs supports > > transactions. > > that's completely crazy. will you force anybody who wants rollback to > use raiserfs? generic applications like dpkg should be indipendent of > the fs used (as long as the fs provides an adeguate set of features, > surely i don't ask for a full-working dpkf on vfat...) Heh. Do you have any idea how hard it is to implement rollback? Without package support, it is almost impossible without a system layer handling it (snapshot of preinstall state, so you can revert completely back to it). Ben -- ---===-=-==-=---==-=-- / Ben Collins -- ...on that fantastic voyage... -- Debian GNU/Linux \ ` [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ' `---=--===-=-=-=-===-==---=--=---'
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
Scavenging the mail folder uncovered Wichert Akkerman's letter: > Previously John Hasler wrote: > > Undo. > > dpkg will support rollback at some point, when reiserfs supports > transactions. that's completely crazy. will you force anybody who wants rollback to use raiserfs? generic applications like dpkg should be indipendent of the fs used (as long as the fs provides an adeguate set of features, surely i don't ask for a full-working dpkf on vfat...) federico -- Federico Di Gregorio MIXAD LIVE Chief of Research & Technology [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian GNU/Linux Developer & Italian Press Contact[EMAIL PROTECTED] Don't dream it. Be it. -- Dr. Frank'n'further
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
Previously John Hasler wrote: > Undo. dpkg will support rollback at some point, when reiserfs supports transactions. Wichert. -- / Generally uninteresting signature - ignore at your convenience \ | [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.liacs.nl/~wichert/ | | 1024D/2FA3BC2D 576E 100B 518D 2F16 36B0 2805 3CB8 9250 2FA3 BC2D |
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
"Dwayne C . Litzenberger" wrote: > > Hello! > > I'm starting work on a new linux package manager. The idea is to be able to > replace rpm, dpkg, apt, dselect (backend) with one,written mostly from scratch > and designed to be as simple (code, not features) and clean as possible. For > now, the work will be strictly academic, but if it works out, it may evolve > into future standard package manager. > > So my question is: What do you wish for in a package manager? > Something I have wished for in dpkg is a --rollback option, to undo the installation of a package and revert to the version that was installed previously, without having the original .deb available. And in the light of changed configuration files, it may not even be possible to restore a previous state by just reinstalling the old version again -- Thanks, -o) Matthijs Melchior Maarssen /\\ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +31 346 570616 Netherlands _\_v
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
Dwayne C. Litzenberger writes: > So my question is: What do you wish for in a package manager? Undo. -- John Hasler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dancing Horse Hill Elmwood, Wisconsin
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
"Dwayne C . Litzenberger" wrote: > > Hello! > > I'm starting work on a new linux package manager. The idea is to be able to > replace rpm, dpkg, apt, dselect (backend) with one,written mostly from scratch > and designed to be as simple (code, not features) and clean as possible. For > now, the work will be strictly academic, but if it works out, it may evolve > into future standard package manager. > open up a co-ordination page on sourceforge and start a public design process. do not stick to a religious idea like "it should be written in C, or in perl". if you're really doing it for univ./research institute you will need some new features, otherwise the tool you're describing is a simple python/perl wrapper script that provides a common CLI to those tools that you mention. It would call 'em, UNIX way. So you need to give more details on what you want to achieve. Having some concrete goals is very important in this free software enterprise. > So my question is: What do you wish for in a package manager? > That it isn't just a package manager. It should cook the coffee for me. More importantly: It should be re-usable as a library for implementing packages/modules for PLs· That would make it pretty academic :) As a matter of fact I claimed to Anthony Towns that I'd rewrite dpkg for a test of skill during a friendly exchange. That's one of the features I really want for my future implementation. What do you think? Thanks, -- Eray (exa) Ozkural Comp. Sci. Dept., Bilkent University, Ankara e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.cs.bilkent.edu.tr/~erayo
ITO: zope-popyda, python-popy
hi *, after being asked so by the upstream author i declare my intention to orphan (from now) the following packages: python-popy zope-popyda merry xmas, federico -- Federico Di Gregorio MIXAD LIVE Chief of Research & Technology [EMAIL PROTECTED] Debian GNU/Linux Developer & Italian Press Contact[EMAIL PROTECTED] 99.% still isn't 100% but sometimes suffice. -- Me
Re: Close list
On Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 08:43:51PM -0500, Joseph Carter wrote: > I have a comment: NO WAY IN HELL. The day that we start rejecting DUL > posts is the day that several people leave the project, me included. How > many ISPs these days route mail worth a damn? :-) Joseph you make it too easy. You never did tell us why you can't arrange a proper smarthost, such as a debian.org machine with an ssh tunnel. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: Close list
On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 12:10:29PM +0200, Gil Bahat wrote: > Here is a (somewhat?) constructive idea regarding the spam. > i would like to point everyone to sugarplum: > (http://www.devin.com/sugarplum/) > quote from README file: Cool program! Might be a good way to discourage spammers from harvesting the Debian mailing list archives and BTS. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: looking for replacement for run (because of critical bug in
On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 11:04:10AM +0100, Andreas Fuchs wrote: > > However, I would say that if the program dies so frequently that it needs a > > wrapper like this, it should probably be fixed. > > tail -f of a logfile into a secured less. To search and scroll > backwards, one must kill the tail, which then needs to be restarted. > > If less could be fixed such that it waits for both input streams with > select(2), I think that problem could be solved. Both input streams, meaning the pipe and the tty? Why do you need to use tail, anyhow? less has a mode to select() and watch the end of a file, invoked with the 'F' command. I don't think that it's currently possible for less to enter this mode with a command-line flag, but I've often wished that it did, so maybe this feature should be added to less. -- - mdz
adoption - gdict
hello,I would like to adopt the package gdict and maintain it. Would you guys ther like to give me some pointers on how should i do? I'm not a debian developer yet, but i have intention to be (and am appling).regards,Related Links:http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?archive=no&bug=80306 --Cagito, ego sum.
ITP: mifluz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Package: wnpp Severity: wishlist I intend to package mifluz. Package: mifluz License: GPL URL: http://www.gnu.org/software/mifluz/ Description: - --- The purpose of mifluz is to provide a C++ library to build and query a full text inverted index. It is dynamically updatable, scalable (up to 1Tb indexes), uses a controlled amount of memory, shares index files and memory cache among processes or threads and compresses index files to 50% of the raw data. The structure of the index is configurable at runtime and allows inclusion of relevance ranking information. The query functions do not require to load all the occurences of a searched term. They consume very few resources and many searches can be run in parallel. - -- Mariusz Przygodzki| Good judgement comes from experience. [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Experience comes from bad judgement. http://www.dune.home.pl | GPG KeyID: 0x42FAD771 GPG Fingerprint: 1990 F07B FFB4 BE0B FF26 10C2 BE2B 965C 42FA D771 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjpF2J4ACgkQviuWXEL613EdiwCdFkPmDs4rwjBCOyF+xPi09sp7 y+4Ani8WHTNLV1W6FawdTfyLSAgNygwd =t4u2 -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Money
Здравствуйте! Прошу прощения за то, что вторгаюсь в Ваше пространство:) Я хочу поделиться с Вами превосходной возможностью начать собственный бизнес в Интернет и зарабатывать от $50 до 1000$/мес. При этом от Вас потребуется только 3-4 часа времени в день, подключение к интернет и e-mail. Это не просмотр рекламы и не Интернет-магазин. И для этого НЕ НАДО бросать свою основную работу, и заявлять кому-то, что Вы занимаетесь этим бизнесом. Преимущества этой бизнес-программы: 1.Ваш заработок зависит только от Вас самих. Никаких ограничений - работаете ровно столько, сколько считаете нужным, зарабатываете пропорционально своим усилиям, причем деньги получаете непосредственно от клиентов, а не от кидал-спонсоров. Бизнес стабилен и не зависит от воли случая или спонсора. 2.Все Ваши расходы составляют только 5$-20$. Это очень мало по сравнению с другими программами, в среднем они берут за вступление 50-100 у.е., а чем больше в начале приходится платить, тем больше возникает сомнений в окупаемости инвестиций. 3.Бизнес не требует от Вас прямого общения с людьми-Вы работаете только посредством Интернета. 4.Вы продаете продукт, производство, транспортировка и реклама которого Вам ничего не стоят. 5.Весь заработок, который Вы получите, является чистой прибылью. 6.Бизнес является легальным и не содержит предпосылок к какому-либо обману. 7.Это не какая-то финансовая пирамида. Доказываю: Черты финансовой пирамиды: - Большой вступительный взнос. - Нет товара. - Верхушка зарабатывает больше всех. - Деньги платят за "завербованных" членов. Черты предлагаемого предпринимательства: - Нет никакого вступительного взноса - Товаром является электронная информация. - Нет никакой верхушки: если Вы пройдете 4 уровня и не будете больше рекламировать себя, то на этом Ваш бизнес остановится, так как программа имеет только 4 уровня. - Вы никого не "вербуете", Вы продаете информацию. - Это совершенно легальный бизнес. 8.Если Вы "стыдитесь" этого бизнеса, не хотите оглашать свое имя и причастность к этому делу, боясь непонимания друзей и знакомых, можете совершенно спокойно оставаться инкогнито. Не говорите никому, если не хотите, пока не заработаете хотя бы первую тысячу $USD. Интернет дает Вам для работы поле деятельности величиною в целый мир, позволяя при этом не оглашать свое имя. 9.Вам не придется разрабатывать всю эту программу самому. Чтобы быть оперативным и успешным в бизнесе, Вам нужно иметь: 1.свой Веб-кошелек. Как его открывать и пользоваться, смотрите на http://www.webmoney.ru. Там находится полное руководство по использованию. 2.неплохо бы иметь 2-3 полезных программок, которые выискивают в Интернете электронные адреса, на которые будут посылаться рекламные письма. Если Вы заинтересовались, то всю информацию (она существует на двух языках: русском и английском), я вышлю Вам в следующем письме. Не упустите это предложение. Мой адрес для получения всей необходимой информации: [EMAIL PROTECTED] С огромным уважением и наилучшими пожеланиями, Елена. Hi! I offer you to begin own business And to earn in the Internet from 50$ about 1000$/mon. It is a perfect opportunity to earn money!!! Do not miss this opportunity! For reception of the information write to me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best regards, Helen.
Re: autobuilders
On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Josh Huber wrote: > built. Should I just do it myself? I also know that there's no > (automated :) autobuilder for Alpha, so I understand that there might > be some delay for alpha. In Alpha's case, I'm normally very "on-top" of the builds, but am going to be slow for the next week or two (I'm moving 2000 miles this coming week). I'll build crash tonight and upload it. C
Re: Close list
> Here is a (somewhat?) constructive idea regarding the spam. > i would like to point everyone to sugarplum: > (http://www.devin.com/sugarplum/) > quote from README file: > [snip]ac I'd suggest putting a lot of IFRAME tag which include the document generated by sugerplum which occuplies only a minimal space, but the drawback is that loading time would be much much larger. -- Cagito, ego sum.
Re: Close list
Here is a (somewhat?) constructive idea regarding the spam. i would like to point everyone to sugarplum: (http://www.devin.com/sugarplum/) quote from README file: sugarplum is a spam-bot database poisoner utility. The specific usage of a spam poisoner is to provide a spammer's email spider with bad data -- ideally lowering the database's usefulness so much that the database must be reverted, discarded or manually edited. while this will not stop directed spam, nor remove the lists from databases it is already in, it might just decrease it's entrance to new databases, and/or protect list users from having their email addresses being harvested. yes, i know it's not much, but it's something alright. serious commentary welcome. flames will be forwarded to /dev/null. Coutal -- .sig file pending Cheers Cout
Re: looking for replacement for run (because of critical bug in
On 2000-12-23, Matt Zimmerman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes and no. It can daemonize a program, but will not restart it when it dies. > It sounds like what you want is a simple shell script that would be daemonized > by start-stop-daemon: > > /usr/sbin/myprogram.wrapper: > > However, I would say that if the program dies so frequently that it needs a > wrapper like this, it should probably be fixed. tail -f of a logfile into a secured less. To search and scroll backwards, one must kill the tail, which then needs to be restarted. If less could be fixed such that it waits for both input streams with select(2), I think that problem could be solved. > init does a good job of this; if there were an easy, error-proof way to add > entries to inittab (i.e., without editing the file in your maintainer > scripts), > using init's 'respawn' mode might not be a bad idea. ACK. This does sound like a better solution than run. Trying this now. -- Andreas Fuchs, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, antifuchs Hail RMS! Hail Cthulhu! Hail Eris! All hail Discordia!
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 09:18:09AM +0100, Peter Makholm wrote: > "Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > So my question is: What do you wish for in a package manager? > > I agree with Ethan. Start explaining why you want to reinvent the > wheel then we maybe has some ideas for things to do when you > reinventing for other reasons. > > The only feature I've ever tried designing a solution for (and mostly > because on some interesting technical problems) is delta/diff packages > where you only downloads the changes if that would take lesser time > (by some measure). Dwayne isn't necessarily trying to reinvent the wheel. He said that he wants to build a single tool that does the jobs of all of the tools he listed. Whether or not that is a good approach is debatable, but if the unified tool uses shared code (i.e. libraries) from the other tools in order to do their jobs, it at least shouldn't do the wrong thing for specific operations. He is looking to build a new "package manager". I read this as "package management tool", not as "package management system". But I could be misunderstanding. -- - mdz
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
On Sun, Dec 24, 2000 at 09:52:47AM +0100, Sami Dalouche wrote: > Hi guys, > > > > So my question is: What do you wish for in a package manager? > > > > I agree with Ethan. Start explaining why you want to reinvent the > > wheel then we maybe has some ideas for things to do when you > > reinventing for other reasons. > > If I had to change something in the Debian package manager, I would > like it to use bzip2 instead of gzip, but this doesn't need a > omplete reimplementation. The problem isn't technical, but it's been its quite trivial on the level of the packaging system and format, simply put a .tar.bz2 in the ar archive instead of a .tar.gz > debated many times. I don't exactly know the problem w/ this compression > except it saves time ;) > Anyway, if you think something isn't perfect, you can always help the > development of Dpkg, or apt. i think the problem is supporting older machines such as 486s. bzip2 is horridly slow on this hardware. and iirc bzip2 takes more memory (or its slower the less memory you have...) since its been discussed before thats all ill say about the subject. -- Ethan Benson http://www.alaska.net/~erbenson/ pgplMCcQvE8zY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
Ethan Benson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > the debian packaging system answered most things i want from a > packaging system. what exactly is missing/wrong with the debian > packaging system that makes you feel the need for wheel reinvention? I also cannot see anything wrong with the Debian packaging system, but that is just you and me and perhaps some others. From an engineering point of view, true, there is no point in fixing something that is not broken, but from a researching point of view, trying out new things is always desirable, because it increases the diversity of our thoughts. Let's say, what is wrong about the design of cockroaches? They are very strong and flexible, capable of surviving almost in any kind of rough environments. Cockroaches are perfectly fine creatures. The Debian packaging system may also be perfectly fine, but it would most definitely not be the end of history. There are rooms for snakes, birds, dogs, cats, monkeys, Homo Sapiens, and Robo Sapiens. Sometimes trying out different things are just for fun; besides, it is his time. But such activities are important in the long run. I would say this to the original poster: go for it, but please do not invent the same wheels again. Try something different. -- Chuan-kai Lin
RE: What do you wish for in an package manager?
Hi guys, > > So my question is: What do you wish for in a package manager? > > I agree with Ethan. Start explaining why you want to reinvent the > wheel then we maybe has some ideas for things to do when you > reinventing for other reasons. If I had to change something in the Debian package manager, I would like it to use bzip2 instead of gzip, but this doesn't need a omplete reimplementation. The problem isn't technical, but it's been debated many times. I don't exactly know the problem w/ this compression except it saves time ;) Anyway, if you think something isn't perfect, you can always help the development of Dpkg, or apt. Sam > > The only feature I've ever tried designing a solution for (and mostly > because on some interesting technical problems) is delta/diff packages > where you only downloads the changes if that would take lesser time > (by some measure).
Re: What do you wish for in an package manager?
"Dwayne C . Litzenberger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > So my question is: What do you wish for in a package manager? I agree with Ethan. Start explaining why you want to reinvent the wheel then we maybe has some ideas for things to do when you reinventing for other reasons. The only feature I've ever tried designing a solution for (and mostly because on some interesting technical problems) is delta/diff packages where you only downloads the changes if that would take lesser time (by some measure).
