Re: debian-exim mailing list?
Andreas Metzler wrote: > It would be nice if there were documented mechanisms to move a list > /painlessly/ from alioth to lists and vice versa, i.e. keeping the > subscriber list and redirections for the old list addresses. Please send me a patch to the List HOWTO I once wrote. You'll need monthly archives of the list as mbox files (may be compressed, of course) and the list of subscribers, in addition to the other things we request for a new list. The current howto is here: http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/HOWTO_start_list Regards, Joey -- Testing? What's that? If it compiles, it is good, if it boots up, it is perfect. Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.
Re: debian-exim mailing list?
On Mon, 26 May 2003 09:15:30 +0200, Andreas Metzler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >It would be nice if there were documented mechanisms to move a list >/painlessly/ from alioth to lists and vice versa, i.e. keeping the >subscriber list and redirections for the old list addresses. I would like to see a possibility to import existing mailman archives as well. For a single case like exim4debian, it would probably be possible to manually move the archive subtree from the current mailman to alioth. Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy copies, please !! - Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Karlsruhe, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | Fon: *49 721 966 32 15 Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fax: *49 721 966 31 29
Re: debian-exim mailing list?
Hamish Moffatt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a tapoté : > On Sun, May 25, 2003 at 11:03:36PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote: > > I'm perplexed about the mailing list request about Exim. > > On one hand, exim is an important package, and there are already ample > > precedents like debian-apache, debian-ssh and debian-tetex-maint; > > but on the other hand, there's alioth.debian.org which allows for easier > > creation and maintenance of per-package mailing lists. > > > > What do others think? > > I'd prefer that we didn't migrate everything to alioth as the easy way > out, but I don't have any good reasons for that preference. Maybe it means that preference is not so good. :) I'm not at all familiar with alioth but it seems to be pretty comparable to Savannah, which I know well. The most complicated thing in Savannah was, IMHO, the migration of the GNU projects over Savannah. Because you had to deal with 340 way to do a same thing. According to me, it works better when the migration is plainly done - and correctly done, which means it does not suppress legitimate ways to do things. For instance, to manage SSH access, it way way easier to have everybody getting access via ssh or kerberos. But aside from that, it's great to let projects admins giving write access to someone by themselves than asking everybody to send a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to get an access, to wait 3 week, to waste someone time. Creating a mailing list per package is surely irrelevant. But if people can create a subproject on alioth, they'll get the freedom to create such mailing-list without wasting time of other people. If they think it's needed, as DD, IMHO, they should be trusted. And since it's automated, it's completely harmless. In the worst case, the mailing list will be unused, which does not consume bandwith, harddisk or time - so which is not a real issue. -- Mathieu Roy Homepage: http://yeupou.coleumes.org Not a native english speaker: http://stock.coleumes.org/doc.php?i=/misc-files/flawed-english
Re: debian-exim mailing list?
On Sun, May 25, 2003 at 11:03:36PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote: > I'm perplexed about the mailing list request about Exim. > On one hand, exim is an important package, and there are already ample > precedents like debian-apache, debian-ssh and debian-tetex-maint; > but on the other hand, there's alioth.debian.org which allows for easier > creation and maintenance of per-package mailing lists. > > What do others think? I'd prefer that we didn't migrate everything to alioth as the easy way out, but I don't have any good reasons for that preference. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: debian-exim mailing list?
Marc Haber (2003-05-25 23:53:31 +0200) : > We actually discussed on the internal exim mailing list whether to > move the existing mailing list to alioth and decided against doing > so for lack of a web archive. Point of information: lists on Alioth are managed by Mailman, which does provide a web archive. Admittedly, not the same interface as what's on http://lists.debian.org, and no search engine, but still present. I have no idea (nor desire to get one) on what you're debating, though. Just pointing out a fact. I really don't care whether you create a list on Alioth, or on lists.debian.org, or not at all. Roland. -- Roland Mas Êtes vous sûr ? (O/N) -- Derniers mots d'un ordinateur
Re: debian-exim mailing list?
Bernd Eckenfels wrote: > On Sun, May 25, 2003 at 11:03:36PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote: > > but on the other hand, there's alioth.debian.org which allows for easier > > creation and maintenance of per-package mailing lists. > > we should generally decide to migrate (all) mailinglists, or only create new > project mailinglists and not user support lists, or whatever. > > In fact I dont mind about which solution/decision is done, I just dont think > it is a good idea to suddenly point people to alioth like it always existed, > and it is the only reasonable way to go. There are quite a lot of reasons to > not host a list on alioth. Most prominent the fact, that it is not visible > on the mailinglist page. Cannot talk about the QOS. lists.debian.org will run major lists of general interest. Alioth is very good for small projects, small lists and the like. Any Debian developer can set up lists and projects there. If the project has become large and a list at lists.debian.org is wanted, a move can be discussed. -- If you come from outside of Finland, you live in wrong country. -- motd of irc.funet.fi Please always Cc to me when replying to me on the lists.
Re: debian-exim mailing list?
Josip Rodin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm perplexed about the mailing list request about Exim. As Marc already noted this special request should simply be ignored now, we have alioth now and currently there isn't much traffic on exim4debian. > On one hand, exim is an important package, and there are already ample > precedents like debian-apache, debian-ssh and debian-tetex-maint; > but on the other hand, there's alioth.debian.org which allows for easier > creation and maintenance of per-package mailing lists. lists.debian.org has its merits: Very official, easy to find, webarchives, gating to newsgroups via linux.debian.*, _working_ Anti-Spam measures. I really do not know how alioth's lists compare, because I have not subscribed to one yet. It would be nice if there were documented mechanisms to move a list /painlessly/ from alioth to lists and vice versa, i.e. keeping the subscriber list and redirections for the old list addresses. cu andreas
Re: debian-exim mailing list?
On Sun, May 25, 2003 at 11:53:31PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote: > Please note that the mailing list request was filed months ago - well > before alioth went into service - and that your e-mail is the first > reaction to the bug report filed. Yes, I know. > We actually discussed on the internal exim mailing list whether to move > the existing mailing list to alioth and decided against doing so for lack > of a web archive. Really? > because we didn't hear a single word of reaction to bug #166357 > If Debian would like to offer mailing lists for internal projects, > response time to requests needs to be MUCH faster. The listmaster team has in the past had grave difficulties with documenting proper procedures, even with simply communicating its issues with bug reports to the submitters. I would apologize in the name of the team, were it not for the fact I was not a member of it up to very recently. (There, now that we have the blame cast off to someone else, can we continue with this conversation normally? :) The reason there was no action in this particular case is mostly that there has been no real policy on whether to create lists for each package, and more importantly, that no need for this list has been shown. > At the current state of affairs, the time spent with writing the request > has been a total waste. I beg to differ... although, never mind, that statement sounds like a simple knee-jerk reaction. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: debian-exim mailing list?
On Sun, May 25, 2003 at 11:53:31PM +0200, Marc Haber wrote: > On Sun, 25 May 2003 23:03:36 +0200, Josip Rodin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >I'm perplexed about the mailing list request about Exim. > >On one hand, exim is an important package, and there are already ample > >precedents like debian-apache, debian-ssh and debian-tetex-maint; > >but on the other hand, there's alioth.debian.org which allows for easier > >creation and maintenance of per-package mailing lists. > > Please note that the mailing list request was filed months ago - well > before alioth went into service - and that your e-mail is the first > reaction to the bug report filed. We actually discussed on the > internal exim mailing list whether to move the existing mailing list > to alioth and decided against doing so for lack of a web archive. > > Anyway, the major work on exim 4 packaging is done, the mailing list > we used because we didn't hear a single word of reaction to bug > #166357 has seen about 900 messages in four months. I seriously doubt > that a debian-exim mailing list is needed any more after the major > packaging effort has been almost completely finished. > > If Debian would like to offer mailing lists for internal projects, > response time to requests needs to be MUCH faster. At the current > state of affairs, the time spent with writing the request has been a > total waste. Well, you could have used the bugreport as interim mailing list :))) Friendly, Sven Luther
Re: debian-exim mailing list?
On Sun, 25 May 2003 23:03:36 +0200, Josip Rodin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I'm perplexed about the mailing list request about Exim. >On one hand, exim is an important package, and there are already ample >precedents like debian-apache, debian-ssh and debian-tetex-maint; >but on the other hand, there's alioth.debian.org which allows for easier >creation and maintenance of per-package mailing lists. Please note that the mailing list request was filed months ago - well before alioth went into service - and that your e-mail is the first reaction to the bug report filed. We actually discussed on the internal exim mailing list whether to move the existing mailing list to alioth and decided against doing so for lack of a web archive. Anyway, the major work on exim 4 packaging is done, the mailing list we used because we didn't hear a single word of reaction to bug #166357 has seen about 900 messages in four months. I seriously doubt that a debian-exim mailing list is needed any more after the major packaging effort has been almost completely finished. If Debian would like to offer mailing lists for internal projects, response time to requests needs to be MUCH faster. At the current state of affairs, the time spent with writing the request has been a total waste. Greetings Marc -- -- !! No courtesy copies, please !! - Marc Haber | " Questions are the | Mailadresse im Header Karlsruhe, Germany | Beginning of Wisdom " | Fon: *49 721 966 32 15 Nordisch by Nature | Lt. Worf, TNG "Rightful Heir" | Fax: *49 721 966 31 29
Re: debian-exim mailing list?
On Sun, May 25, 2003 at 11:36:23PM +0200, Bernd Eckenfels wrote: > > but on the other hand, there's alioth.debian.org which allows for easier > > creation and maintenance of per-package mailing lists. > > we should generally decide to migrate (all) mailinglists, or only create > new project mailinglists and not user support lists, or whatever. I think it's impossible to say packages automatically don't "deserve" a list on lists.d.o, but it would also be silly to set up 1 lists, one (or more!) for each package. > I just dont think it is a good idea to suddenly point people to alioth > like it always existed, and it is the only reasonable way to go. And I suggested this... when? Let's not start with random accusations just yet. > There are quite a lot of reasons to not host a list on alioth. Most > prominent the fact, that it is not visible on the mailinglist page. That doesn't have to be, it's reasonably easy for me to add external lists into lists.d.o lists (sic, heh). > Cannot talk about the QOS. Point. Gforge-managed Mailman, IIRC, but I didn't try. -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
Re: debian-exim mailing list?
On Sun, May 25, 2003 at 11:03:36PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote: > but on the other hand, there's alioth.debian.org which allows for easier > creation and maintenance of per-package mailing lists. we should generally decide to migrate (all) mailinglists, or only create new project mailinglists and not user support lists, or whatever. In fact I dont mind about which solution/decision is done, I just dont think it is a good idea to suddenly point people to alioth like it always existed, and it is the only reasonable way to go. There are quite a lot of reasons to not host a list on alioth. Most prominent the fact, that it is not visible on the mailinglist page. Cannot talk about the QOS. Greetings Bernd -- (OO) -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- ( .. ) [EMAIL PROTECTED],linux.de,debian.org} http://home.pages.de/~eckes/ o--o *plush* 2048/93600EFD [EMAIL PROTECTED] +497257930613 BE5-RIPE (OO) When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl!
debian-exim mailing list?
Hi, I'm perplexed about the mailing list request about Exim. On one hand, exim is an important package, and there are already ample precedents like debian-apache, debian-ssh and debian-tetex-maint; but on the other hand, there's alioth.debian.org which allows for easier creation and maintenance of per-package mailing lists. What do others think? -- 2. That which causes joy or happiness.
