Re: linhdd concerns

[Mike Hommey]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 02:19:21PM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Pierre Habouzit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> >   or we could disallow the override of >= E: errors in lintian, and make
> > lintian reboot your computer, fill your gpg with /dev/random bits, and
> > install windows over your Debian if you override such errors.
> 
> I'd love it if lintian were at a point where it would make sense to do
> that, but as a lintian maintainer, I'm afraid that it's not.  Not all
> errors are created equal, and some of them should legitimately be
> overridable.
> 
> We've talked for quite a while about having finer-grained control over
> lintian messages than the current three-tier system, in part to allow
> something like this (automatic dak rejection on certain lintian errors,
> for instance), but I'm way short on time.  :/
> 
> For example, to take the lintian error that started this thread, there are
> some arch: all packages in the archive with architecture-specific objects
> that at least on a cursory glance I couldn't declare wrong.  They're
> development packages for cross-compilation and the arch-specific objects
> are libraries for the target.  That seems like a legitimate case for a
> lintian override to me.

Also, BIOSes for emulators are candidates for such an override.

Mike


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Re: linhdd concerns

[Russ Allbery]

Pierre Habouzit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>   or we could disallow the override of >= E: errors in lintian, and make
> lintian reboot your computer, fill your gpg with /dev/random bits, and
> install windows over your Debian if you override such errors.

I'd love it if lintian were at a point where it would make sense to do
that, but as a lintian maintainer, I'm afraid that it's not.  Not all
errors are created equal, and some of them should legitimately be
overridable.

We've talked for quite a while about having finer-grained control over
lintian messages than the current three-tier system, in part to allow
something like this (automatic dak rejection on certain lintian errors,
for instance), but I'm way short on time.  :/

For example, to take the lintian error that started this thread, there are
some arch: all packages in the archive with architecture-specific objects
that at least on a cursory glance I couldn't declare wrong.  They're
development packages for cross-compilation and the arch-specific objects
are libraries for the target.  That seems like a legitimate case for a
lintian override to me.

-- 
Russ Allbery ([EMAIL PROTECTED])   


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Re: linhdd concerns

[Russ Allbery]

Michael Banck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> One thing we could do is have a seperate report on
> http://lintian.debian.org which lists all the lintian overrides (maybe
> only those for errors, not for warnings), so they can be peer reviewed
> by interested people. 

I've been wanting to add overrides and info tags to the lintian.d.o pages
for some time and just haven't had the time to work on the scripts.
Patches are definitely welcome.

-- 
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Re: Please help me remove this

[Pierre Habouzit]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 06:29:03PM +, Masood wrote:
> Can you please delete this page from your data base:
> 
> http://lists.debian.org/debian-68k/2003/08/msg00030.html
> 
> It is very embarrassing and very old. It is the first thing that comes up
> when searching for my name.

  Yeah, good idea, whereas you could have argued that the former was a
spam, now you will have a hard time thanks to this one, that I'm sure
will rank as the second hit for your name. way to do :D

-- 
·O·  Pierre Habouzit
··O[EMAIL PROTECTED]
OOOhttp://www.madism.org


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Please help me remove this

[Masood]

Can you please delete this page from your data base:

 

http://lists.debian.org/debian-68k/2003/08/msg00030.html

 

It is very embarrassing and very old. It is the first thing that comes up
when searching for my name.

Re: linhdd concerns (was: Re: Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring)

[Sune Vuorela]

On 2007-11-28, Bas Wijnen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 02:49:38PM +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 12:23:30PM +, Michael Banck wrote:
>> > Another thing we could do is alert sponsors about checking for lintian
>> > overrides when they review a package.
>>=20
>>   or we could disallow the override of >=3D E: errors in lintian, and make
>> lintian reboot your computer, fill your gpg with /dev/random bits, and
>> install windows over your Debian if you override such errors.
>
> Interesting idea.  I'd prefer to use a bit softer approach, if only
> because I wouldn't want to push our developers (DD or not) to non-free
> software, even if they misbehave. ;-)
>
> How about letting lintian report all messages always, with an extra note
> for overrides?  Like this[0]:

A too verbose lintian makes people overlook the real issues.

Some time ago, lintian was too strict about .desktop files and made the
kdegraphics source package spew more than 700 lines of lintian warnings
and errors.  (lintian has now gotten more accurate)

Those 700 lines of  made lintian effectively unusable for those
packages.

Overrides are meant to make stuff not be shown. Please let it be that
way and instead educate sponsors to look at installed overrides. 

Lintian even has a switch to ignore overrides and output everything -
sponsors should use that.

/Sune


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Re: Thank You All

[Gunnar Wolf]

David VanDuivendyk dijo [Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 03:46:53PM -0700]:
> I could not find a relevant address to send this to. I hope that you will
> share this with everyone you can.  Thank you so much for all the work and
> effort to produce *Debian.* I have been using Linux for 5 years and Debian
> for 2 of those years- Debian is the best for me.

I'm very happy for your happiness ;-) Thank you for sharing your
satisfaction with us - that's one of the main forces that drive
Debian!

Greetings,

-- 
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PGP key 1024D/8BB527AF 2001-10-23
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Re: linhdd concerns (was: Re: Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring)

[Gunnar Wolf]

Bas Wijnen dijo [Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 04:51:30PM +0100]:
> >   or we could disallow the override of >= E: errors in lintian, and make
> > lintian reboot your computer, fill your gpg with /dev/random bits, and
> > install windows over your Debian if you override such errors.
> 
> Interesting idea.  I'd prefer to use a bit softer approach, if only
> because I wouldn't want to push our developers (DD or not) to non-free
> software, even if they misbehave. ;-)

Besides, I somehow doubt this would be legal or enforceable on all
jurisdiction. Just as an example, I doubt it would be legal and
enforceable for Lintian to install Windows on my PPC machines.

> How about letting lintian report all messages always, with an extra note
> for overrides?  Like this[0]:
> 
> I: Override installed for the following message:
> I: W: pioneers binary: binary-without-manpage usr/games/pioneers-editor
> 
> With -i, the first line should expand to something like:
> 
> I: Override installed for the following message:
> I: The maintainer installed an override for the following error.  This
> I: means that lintian is wrong about this, and there is nothing wrong
> I: with the package.
> 
> Or perhaps a little less maintainer-friendly, suggesting that the
> override could be incorrect. :-)

+1 to this. Overriden Lintian messages should be infrequent, as you
say, and the overrides should just demote the message to the point it
does not bother the person building anymore, but automated tools (and
fellow humans building the package, i.e. to sponsor, NMU or adopt it)
should nonetheless know there is _something_ Lintian does not like.

Greetings,

-- 
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Re: linhdd concerns (was: Re: Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring)

[Pierre Habouzit]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 02:54:39PM +, Michael Banck wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 02:49:38PM +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> >   or we could disallow the override of >= E: errors in lintian, and make
> > lintian reboot your computer, fill your gpg with /dev/random bits, and
> > install windows over your Debian if you override such errors.
> 
> Are you routinely overriding valid lintian errors or why are you
> apparently so deeply horrified by peer review of lintian overrides?
> 
> Pierre, bugs are nothing to be ashamed of.

  You must have misunderstood me. I believe that allowing anyone to
override some kinds of lintian warnings should just be disallowed,
because there's no way such a thing is correct. Or so seldomly that
packagers for whom it's the case can live with a warning.

-- 
·O·  Pierre Habouzit
··O[EMAIL PROTECTED]
OOOhttp://www.madism.org


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Re: linhdd concerns (was: Re: Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring)

[Ramakrishnan Muthukrishnan]

Michael Banck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 06:55:10PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
>> aj, who'd just like to see some failure analysis / air crash investigation
>> type conclusions out of this, rather than just "foo sucks and
>> shouldn't upload"
>  
> One thing we could do is have a seperate report on
> http://lintian.debian.org which lists all the lintian overrides (maybe
> only those for errors, not for warnings), so they can be peer reviewed
> by interested people. 
>
> Another thing we could do is alert sponsors about checking for lintian
> overrides when they review a package.

I would also suggest adding afew lines in the developer reference
under section 7.5.2 with those suggestions that evolved out of this
thread. I will file a wishlist bug against developers-reference.

-- 
Ramakrishnan


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Re: linhdd concerns (was: Re: Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring)

[Brett Parker]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 02:49:38PM +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 12:23:30PM +, Michael Banck wrote:
> > On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 06:55:10PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > > aj, who'd just like to see some failure analysis / air crash investigation
> > > type conclusions out of this, rather than just "foo sucks and
> > > shouldn't upload"
> >  
> > One thing we could do is have a seperate report on
> > http://lintian.debian.org which lists all the lintian overrides (maybe
> > only those for errors, not for warnings), so they can be peer reviewed
> > by interested people. 
> > 
> > Another thing we could do is alert sponsors about checking for lintian
> > overrides when they review a package.
> 
>   or we could disallow the override of >= E: errors in lintian, and make
> lintian reboot your computer, fill your gpg with /dev/random bits, and
> install windows over your Debian if you override such errors.

Then tag as wontfix when someone reports the bug on lintian? Or just
claim that it's a feature, not a bug?

-- 
Brett Parker


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Re: linhdd concerns (was: Re: Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring)

[Bas Wijnen]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 02:49:38PM +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 12:23:30PM +, Michael Banck wrote:
> > Another thing we could do is alert sponsors about checking for lintian
> > overrides when they review a package.
> 
>   or we could disallow the override of >= E: errors in lintian, and make
> lintian reboot your computer, fill your gpg with /dev/random bits, and
> install windows over your Debian if you override such errors.

Interesting idea.  I'd prefer to use a bit softer approach, if only
because I wouldn't want to push our developers (DD or not) to non-free
software, even if they misbehave. ;-)

How about letting lintian report all messages always, with an extra note
for overrides?  Like this[0]:

I: Override installed for the following message:
I: W: pioneers binary: binary-without-manpage usr/games/pioneers-editor

With -i, the first line should expand to something like:

I: Override installed for the following message:
I: The maintainer installed an override for the following error.  This
I: means that lintian is wrong about this, and there is nothing wrong
I: with the package.

Or perhaps a little less maintainer-friendly, suggesting that the
override could be incorrect. :-)

AFAIK there are three solutions for handling a lintian message:
- If the package is indeed broken, fix it.  The most usual.
- If lintian is broken, report a bug and/or fix it and submit a patch.
  In the mean time, ignore the message.  Not so usual.
- If lintian is not right, but this is such a weird cornercase that it
  is not reasonable to expect that, install an override.  Very unusual.

This means that lintian overrides should be very rare.  And it is no
problem to get messages like above for them.

Thanks,
Bas

[0] Ok, this is not something that should be overridden, but I wanted to
use my own package, and I don't think I have any overrides installed
anywhere.

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Re: linhdd concerns (was: Re: Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring)

[Steve McIntyre]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 01:23:30PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote:
>On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 06:55:10PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
>> aj, who'd just like to see some failure analysis / air crash investigation
>> type conclusions out of this, rather than just "foo sucks and
>> shouldn't upload"
> 
>One thing we could do is have a seperate report on
>http://lintian.debian.org which lists all the lintian overrides (maybe
>only those for errors, not for warnings), so they can be peer reviewed
>by interested people. 
>
>Another thing we could do is alert sponsors about checking for lintian
>overrides when they review a package.

#452804

-- 
Steve McIntyre, Cambridge, UK.[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Since phone messaging became popular, the young generation has lost the
 ability to read or write anything that is longer than one hundred and sixty
 characters."  -- Ignatios Souvatzis


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Re: linhdd concerns (was: Re: Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring)

[Michael Banck]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 02:49:38PM +0100, Pierre Habouzit wrote:
>   or we could disallow the override of >= E: errors in lintian, and make
> lintian reboot your computer, fill your gpg with /dev/random bits, and
> install windows over your Debian if you override such errors.

Are you routinely overriding valid lintian errors or why are you
apparently so deeply horrified by peer review of lintian overrides?

Pierre, bugs are nothing to be ashamed of.


Michael


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Re: linhdd concerns (was: Re: Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring)

[Pierre Habouzit]

On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 12:23:30PM +, Michael Banck wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 06:55:10PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > aj, who'd just like to see some failure analysis / air crash investigation
> > type conclusions out of this, rather than just "foo sucks and
> > shouldn't upload"
>  
> One thing we could do is have a seperate report on
> http://lintian.debian.org which lists all the lintian overrides (maybe
> only those for errors, not for warnings), so they can be peer reviewed
> by interested people. 
> 
> Another thing we could do is alert sponsors about checking for lintian
> overrides when they review a package.

  or we could disallow the override of >= E: errors in lintian, and make
lintian reboot your computer, fill your gpg with /dev/random bits, and
install windows over your Debian if you override such errors.

-- 
·O·  Pierre Habouzit
··O[EMAIL PROTECTED]
OOOhttp://www.madism.org


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Re: linhdd concerns (was: Re: Updated Debian Maintainers Keyring)

[Michael Banck]

On Tue, Nov 27, 2007 at 06:55:10PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> aj, who'd just like to see some failure analysis / air crash investigation
> type conclusions out of this, rather than just "foo sucks and
> shouldn't upload"
 
One thing we could do is have a seperate report on
http://lintian.debian.org which lists all the lintian overrides (maybe
only those for errors, not for warnings), so they can be peer reviewed
by interested people. 

Another thing we could do is alert sponsors about checking for lintian
overrides when they review a package.


Michael


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Re: No buildd redundancy for alpha/mips/mipsel

[Raphael Hertzog]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Martin Michlmayr wrote:
> * Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-11-28 10:55]:
> > > mips and mipsel have more buildds (mayr and mayer) but one has
> > > problems with its fan and the other with its psu.  I don't know what
> > > is being done about this as the RT ticket is not public (or at least
> > > wasn't last time I checked).
> > Which one? There's no such ticket AFAIK. Feel free to submit them.
> > (and I have access to the DSA private tickets)
> 
> Ryan told me there's one.  Maybe there isn't - I don't know.

I just opened two tickets:
https://rt.debian.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=320
https://rt.debian.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=321

A full-text search on mayr and mayer didn't lead to any relevant (open)
ticket so I probably didn't miss any.

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog

Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux :
http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/


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Re: No buildd redundancy for alpha/mips/mipsel

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Raphael Hertzog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-11-28 10:55]:
> > mips and mipsel have more buildds (mayr and mayer) but one has
> > problems with its fan and the other with its psu.  I don't know what
> > is being done about this as the RT ticket is not public (or at least
> > wasn't last time I checked).
> Which one? There's no such ticket AFAIK. Feel free to submit them.
> (and I have access to the DSA private tickets)

Ryan told me there's one.  Maybe there isn't - I don't know.
-- 
Martin Michlmayr
http://www.cyrius.com/


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Re: No buildd redundancy for alpha/mips/mipsel

[Raphael Hertzog]

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Martin Michlmayr wrote:
> * Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-11-28 08:32]:
> > Are there any known plans to add buildds for these arches and
> > especially for mips and mipsel? If not, could we please make that a
> > priority for the project?
> 
> mips and mipsel have more buildds (mayr and mayer) but one has
> problems with its fan and the other with its psu.  I don't know what
> is being done about this as the RT ticket is not public (or at least
> wasn't last time I checked).

Which one? There's no such ticket AFAIK. Feel free to submit them.
(and I have access to the DSA private tickets)

Cheers,
-- 
Raphaël Hertzog

Premier livre français sur Debian GNU/Linux :
http://www.ouaza.com/livre/admin-debian/


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Aki Esta as Fotos Que Prometi Mandar...

[luanna1989]

 
 



Oie!! 
tudo bem? eu 
esqueci de mandar as fotos! agora tá ai!! 
Beijao! 
anexo: photos.gif 
(15kb)




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كتاب كل ٠ا شافه رجل قال ٠� �كن نسخه لزوجتي

[sh44.com]

= sh44.com =
كتاب جديد كل ما شافه رجل قال ممكن اخذ منه نسخه لزوجتي
http://sh44.com/vb/showthread.php?t=167

===
...
















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Re: No buildd redundancy for alpha/mips/mipsel

[Martin Michlmayr]

* Frans Pop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007-11-28 08:32]:
> Are there any known plans to add buildds for these arches and
> especially for mips and mipsel? If not, could we please make that a
> priority for the project?

mips and mipsel have more buildds (mayr and mayer) but one has
problems with its fan and the other with its psu.  I don't know what
is being done about this as the RT ticket is not public (or at least
wasn't last time I checked).
-- 
Martin Michlmayr
http://www.cyrius.com/


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