Re: metaphors and feminism

2019-03-31 Thread Ben Hutchings
On Fri, 2019-03-29 at 08:42 +0100, Stacey Lee wrote:
> Hello everybody
> I'm an outsider here but I couldn't ignore what is going
> on.
[...]

Shut up Daniel.

Ben.

-- 
Ben Hutchings
Design a system any fool can use, and only a fool will want to use it.




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Re: metaphors and feminism

2019-03-31 Thread Ian Jackson
Sam Hartman writes ("Re: metaphors and feminism"):
> I always assumed debian member was a term that included developer and
> maintainer.
> I'm all for Debian member replacing developer, but if so, I'd like a
> term that encompasses maintainer and developer.

There are at least the following statuses/roles:

 1. "Debian Developer" as per the constitution.
 2. "DM" aka "Debian Maintainer", ie someone in the DM keyring
 3. "Maintainer:" or "Uploader:" in some source package
 4. Other contributors

You can vote in GRs and DPL elections if you are 1.
You become 1 by going through the NM process, which is supposed to
guage your technical and nontechnical suitability.

You can upload a particular package without needing sponsorship if you
are 1; or are 2, and also 3 for the package in question.
You usually become 2 by demonstrating a track record of good
contributions in role 3.

You may make management decisions[*] with respect to a particular
package if you are 3; you are also then primarily responsible for
preparing new versions, although you need a sponsor to upload them
unless you are 1 or 2 as well.


Your comment was ambiguous as to what you meant by `maintainer': did
you mean 2 or 3 ?

I think Paul has been using `member' to mean only 1.  I think that is
appropriate: `member' is then highest status that is not membership of
some special group.

3 is usually called `maintainer'.  `Maintainer' is actually right for
this role: it refers to the responsibility and authority for package.
So we need a different term for 2.

Lots of organisations use `associate'.  And 2 are specially
authorised.  Hence my suggestions of
  Authorised/Approved Debian Maintainer
  Associate Debian Member

I think the former is better because the status 2 implies only a
technical authority, not a sociopolitical authority.


Thanks,
Ian.


[*] By `management decisions' I mean, for example: giving go-ahead for
an NMU; approving/disapproving proposed patches; deciding what VCS and
packaging workflow should be used; helping choose other members of the
package team; filing a removal request; deciding on a bug severity;
negotiating with those handling other packages.  If there are others
listed as Maintainer/Uploader then these decisions are collective.
And most are subject to possible review by eg release or ftp team,
etc.  But, this is the most usual kind of authority in Debian and it
is not gatekept by any kind of access control mechanism; rather like
any management decision, it is a kind of authority honoured by humans
rather than computers.


-- 
Ian JacksonThese opinions are my own.

If I emailed you from an address @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk, that is
a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.



Re: metaphors and feminism

2019-03-31 Thread Michael Neuffer



On 31.03.19 11:22, Florian Weimer wrote:
> * Mike Hommey:
>
>> That's the primary structural distinction as an effect, but OTOH, the NM
>> process is a rather extensive vetting process.
> Not all Debian Developers went through the NM process.  Account
> creation was handled differently in the beginning.  (I wasn't around
> and don't know the details.)

During the 1995-1997 period Debian Developers were vetted by Simon
Shapiro and me.
At that time we hosted the Debian core infrastructure at our ISP.

If people participated on the lists and seemed trustworthy, we usually
had several phone calls with the prospects
and then created the required accounts on our Debian servers.

During this period Debian grew from about 60 to 250 developers.

Later the services got de-centralized and distributed over several
locations.

Cheers
  Mike



Re: metaphors and feminism

2019-03-31 Thread Florian Weimer
* Mike Hommey:

> That's the primary structural distinction as an effect, but OTOH, the NM
> process is a rather extensive vetting process.

Not all Debian Developers went through the NM process.  Account
creation was handled differently in the beginning.  (I wasn't around
and don't know the details.)



Re: metaphors and feminism

2019-03-31 Thread Stefano Zacchiroli
On Sat, Mar 30, 2019 at 08:31:48PM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
> I always assumed debian member was a term that included developer and
> maintainer.

In the Constitution, "Debian [Project] Member" is used as a synonym of
"Debian Developer". Hence it doesn't include Debian Maintainers. We
discussed this when we generalized project membership to non-uploading
(an unfortunate name in itself). The only more generic thing that we
have historically used is "Debian Contributors", which is not formalized
anywhere AFAIK, but is used in a bunch of official services, e.g.,
https://contributors.debian.org .

Cheers
-- 
Stefano Zacchiroli . z...@upsilon.cc . upsilon.cc/zack . . o . . . o . o
Computer Science Professor . CTO Software Heritage . . . . . o . . . o o
Former Debian Project Leader & OSI Board Director  . . . o o o . . . o .
« the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club »


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