Re: lists.debian.org maintenance

[Alexander Wirt]

On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 06:24:53PM +0200, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 10:47:26AM -0500, Steven Robbins wrote:
> > On Friday, May 17, 2024 3:33:30 P.M. CDT Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > > we will upgrade bendel.debian.org which hosts our mailinglists now. 
> > > > Please
> > > > expect some service interruptions.
> > > 
> > > the maintenance is over, but unfortunately the indexer for list search is
> > > currently broken. It may take a few days until I will be able to debug the
> > > beast.
> > 
> > I read the lists using the web interface at url https://lists.debian.org/
> > debian-devel/recent -- which is now saying "Internal Server Error".  Is 
> > this 
> > related to the indexer issue?
> To be honest I have no idea. Let me check. 
Good catch, another python2 script that needed conversion. 

I fixed this. 

Alexander



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: lists.debian.org maintenance

[Alexander Wirt]

On Sat, May 18, 2024 at 10:47:26AM -0500, Steven Robbins wrote:
> On Friday, May 17, 2024 3:33:30 P.M. CDT Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > > we will upgrade bendel.debian.org which hosts our mailinglists now. Please
> > > expect some service interruptions.
> > 
> > the maintenance is over, but unfortunately the indexer for list search is
> > currently broken. It may take a few days until I will be able to debug the
> > beast.
> 
> I read the lists using the web interface at url https://lists.debian.org/
> debian-devel/recent -- which is now saying "Internal Server Error".  Is this 
> related to the indexer issue?
To be honest I have no idea. Let me check. 

Thanks for reporting

Alexander



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: GitLab on salsa.d.o without security support

[Alexander Wirt]

On Fri, Dec 01, 2023 at 08:17:02PM +0100, Bastian Blank wrote:

Hi, 

> The GitLab on salsa.debian.org identifies itself as 16.1.5.  This
> version is way outside of the three month security support schedule.
> Upstream supports the latest three version (so currently 16.6, 16.5 and
> 16.4) at every one time.[1]
> 
> So right now we are running a mission critical service outside of
> security support?  What are the plans for it?

That's my mistake. I've been suffering from bronchitis and pneumonia for the 
last few weeks.
Unfortunately, this has set me back considerably. Updating Salsa is high on my 
to-do list and I
expect to be fit for work again next week. 

Sorry for that

Alex


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: salsa.debian.org maintenance

[Alexander Wirt]

On Wed, Nov 01, 2023 at 09:29:41PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> I will do some upgrades on salsa. Expect some downtime of the service.
I have encountered a few problems along the way and will therefore postpone the 
maintenance.

Alex



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: salsa accounts

[Alexander Wirt]

Hi, simple, your mail address triggers every spam trigger. I doubt it will ever succeed. It looks exactly like a typical type of spammers.AlexAm 01.11.2022 um 19:04 schrieb Alberto Salvia Novella :I tried registering a few times, and it never got approved.(When replying, include my email in the "to" field)On Tue, 1 Nov 2022 at 17:59, Antonio Terceiro  wrote:On Tue, Nov 01, 2022 at 04:27:35PM +0100, Alberto Salvia Novella wrote:
> Maybe it would be interesting allowing anyone to create an account at "
> salsa.debian.org". So anyone outside Debian can also report bugs, and make
> pull requests.
> 
> For example I'm using Debian's syncthing-gtk
>  on my distro, which is a
> port of the software to Python 3 not available elsewhere. But I cannot help
> out because I can't create an account.
> 
> (When replying, include my email in the "by" field)

That would makes it easier for you, but also for the huge amount of spam
registrations that we receive every day. Unfortunately, you need to have
little patience until your account gets approved.

https://wiki.debian.org/Salsa/Doc#Users

Re: salsa.debian.org maintenance

[Alexander Wirt]

Am Thu, Mar 31, 2022 at 09:05:46PM +0200 schrieb Alexander Wirt:
> Hi, 
> 
> I will perform a security update for salsa now. The outage should be no 
> longer than 30 minutes. 
And done. 

Alex


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: How about using moderation as a delay system for bad threads?

[Alexander Wirt]

Hi, 

> (adding listmaster to Cc: as I don't know how flexible our mailing list 
> software would be)
> 
> On Sat, Mar 26, 2022, at 00:10, Charles Plessy wrote:
> > How about we make that a feature and introduce a delay of a couple of
> > hours between all messages in threads like this one ?
> 
> The OSM foundation seems to have a feature in its mailing list software, 
> where, in contentious situations (e.g. during board elections campaigning 
> periods), posters are throttled to one message every 24 hours.
> 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/osmf-talk/2021-December/008248.html
> 
> At the time, it seemed to me like an interesting idea that we could be 
> experimenting with to keep flamewars somewhat more contained.
You are a bit too late, we have such a system for one or two decades. We can 
throttle mails down
based on everything procmail can choose. We usually do this from time to time 
to throttle down
threads based on subject. 

Alex
 


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: salsa.debian.org maintenance

[Alexander Wirt]

Hi, 

> we will perform a minor update around 13:00 CET. The user visible downtime 
> should not be longer than
> 30 minutes. 

salsa should be back. 

Alex



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: salsa.debian.org maintenance

[Alexander Wirt]

Am Fri, Mar 04, 2022 at 11:33:47AM +0100 schrieb Alexander Wirt:
> Hi, 
> 
> I will perform a fix for the Debian user badges around 11:45. The user 
> visible downtime
> should less then 30 minutes. 
And done.

Alex



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: salsa.debian.org maintenance

[Alexander Wirt]

On Fri, Sep 10, 2021 at 04:09:36PM +0200, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> we will perform a fix for the debian userbadges today around 22:30
> CEST. The user visible downtime should be ~30 Minutes. 
I am done. Badges are back. 

Thanks

Alex

Re: salsa.debian.org maintenance

[Alexander Wirt]

Hi,

> we will perform a security upgrade on salsa.debian.org on 2021-08-06
> (yes, thats today),
> around 23:00 CEST. 
> 
> The user visible downtime should be less than 30 minutes. 

The maintenance is over. 

Thanks

Alex


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: salsa.debian.org maintenance

[Alexander Wirt]

On Fri, Aug 06, 2021 at 10:10:56PM +0200, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> Hi, 
> 
> we will perform a security upgrade on salsa.debian.org on 2021-08-06
> (yes, thats today),
> around 23:00 CEST. 
> 
> The user visible downtime should be less than 30 minutes. 
I am done, everything should be back to normal.

Alex



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Debian and GitLab Open Source Partnership

[Alexander Wirt]

On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 07:59:26PM +0200, Geert Stappers wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 06:19:37PM +0200, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> > Donald Norwood  writes:
> > 
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > > Debian and GitLab have been in discussion regarding an Open Source
> > > Partnership toward which we will jointly produce mutual promotions,
> > > shared stories, and announcements using both organizations press and/or
> > > publicity channels.
>   ...
> > > 
> > 
> > Out of the blue, without any more context and content,
> 
> ???
> 
> "Debian" and "Gitlab" are speaking with each other
> since the very start of "Salsa".
> 
> 
> > I am not sure to be happy with this news.
> 
> To me is the news  that "press" and "marketing" are more involved.
> Because I assume good faith, I allow meself to focus on other stuff
> in (Debian) life.
> 
>  
> > To me, such a partnership is something quite stronger than sponsorship
> > and I'd be a bit ill-at-ease with it being done without the whole Debian
> > Members being consulted.
> 
> Yes, a DD is allowed to represent the project.
> 
>  
> > Last but not least, what kind of data would be shared regarding how we
> > use gitlab in Debian?
> 
> Please give the (humble) Salsa admins time to elaborate.
> I have no insight information about "the data",
> but imagine (dull??) statistics on accounts, active accounts, projects,
> active projects.
> I do trust my fellow Debian Developers to deal wisely with it.
> For (gory??) details I recomment to join the Salsa admin team.

To be honest - and to my suprise - we weren't involved in this
discussions. We don't share any personal data and we won't do that.
We share rough numbers (numbers of projects, users,
groups, storage used), but we also do that regulary in talks (at least
when there were real conferences). 

Alex - Salsa Admim



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Mailing List Suggestions at recieving end

[Alexander Wirt]

On Fri, Apr 02, 2021 at 06:18:40PM +0200, Geert Stappers wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 01, 2021 at 12:35:18AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote:
> > On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 05:21:47PM -0400, Kurt Meyer wrote:
> > > I would like to suggest the start of two new mailing lists.
> > > 
> > > The first mailing list would list new packages (not upgrades) added to
> > > Debian Unstable.  I realize that there is the New Packages in "Sid" page,
> > > but a mailing list would be more convenient in my opinion.
> > > 
> > > The second mailing list would list new packages (not upgrades) added to
> > > Debian Backports.
> > 
> > Can't you just filter debian-devel-changes via a procmail rule,
> > to drop source-only uploads?
> 
> 
> April first is over and it is 2021.  Is procmail still the advice to
> people new to large amounts of emails?  No maildrop? No sieve?
Just as a fun fact, our own list software is based on procmail.
Therefore procmail is still working somewhere. However, for private
usage I would prefer sieve (unless you want to execute scripts and so
on), otherwise maildrop (much cleaner syntax than procmail). 

Alex
 


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Proposal to deprecate and remove mailing list specific code of conduct

[Alexander Wirt]

Hi,

> On Mon, Nov 23, 2020 at 08:12:35PM +, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > Folks,
> > 
> > We currently have a minimal Debian mailing list code of conduct at
> > https://www.debian.org/MailingLists which is, essentially,
> > primarily tips on how to format email. At the same time, we have the
> > main Debian Code of Conduct at https://www.debian.org/code_of_conduct} 
> > which 
> > is also referenced on the mailing lists page.
> [...]
> > Your thoughts on this would be very much appreciated
> 
> When I made the proposal for the Debian CoC, I asked for the list
> manager's feedback. This was their reponse:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/02/msg00045.html
> 
> After I prodded a bit about the mailinglist specific parts that
> Alexander referred to in that mail, he replied with:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2014/02/msg00054.html
> 
> In other words, unless their position has changed in the intervening
> years, listmasters don't really want to lose their document, because
> they believe it still has value.
> 
> As I'm not involved in listmastery, I can't really say whether or not I
> agree with that position, but I do think that if you want to drop the
> mailinglist CoC you need to convince listmasters first that it's
> actually a good idea to do so.

Basically my opinion is still the same, but if you clean up the
Mailinglist CoC and remove all non list specific things we can just
use it as an amendment to the general CoC. 

Alex 

Debian Google Summer of code and Outreachy participation

[Alexander Wirt]

Welcome to another round of Google Summer of Code and Outreachy!

# We want you!

We're looking for mentors! If you're interested in mentoring, [enter your 
information here][1].

[1]: https://wiki.debian.org/SummerOfCode2020/Projects

You can also contact the Debian Outreach team with any questions at 
outreach@d.o, on IRC, or on #debian-soc-mentors.

## Projects

All mentors are attached to a project, which must be part of an already 
existing team within Debian. Projects should be something that can be 
accomplished over approximately three months of full time development work. 
GSoC projects must be technical in nature, while Outreachy projects allow for 
community, social, organizational, translation, and other types of 
contributions.

Every project must have at least two mentors per student. One mentor (for each 
student) must either be a Debian Project member OR a well known, consistent 
contributor to Debian. We ask that all projects be submitted to  both GSoC and, 
if selected, Outreachy. Outreachy has greater expectations for mentors than 
GSoC does. However, we believe it's important to offer students in both 
programs the same opportunities. You can, however, submit a non-coding project 
to Outreachy, and that will not be included in the GSoC options.

## Responsibilities of Mentors

[Google][2] and [Outreachy][3] provide comprehensive mentor guides.

[2]: 
https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/resources/guide#mentor_manual
[3]: https://www.outreachy.org/mentor/

As a mentor you will be helping a student learn! You should be regularly 
available to meet with and advise your intern, responding within a reasonable 
amount of time. You will also be expected to:

* help applicants apply and become acclimated to the Debian Project norms
* provide feedback about the application process to the Admins and assist 
in selecting interns
* write **brief** weekly reports, using a template, to be submitted to 
Debian Outreach

# What are you talking about?

Google Summer [4] of Code and Outreachy [5] are internship programs to help 
people get involved in free software. They provide paid internships for the 
participants and help grow the project.

[4] Google Summer of Code: https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/
[5] Outreach: https://www.outreachy.org/


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Some thoughts about Diversity and the CoC

[Alexander Wirt]

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019, Sam Hartman wrote:

> > "Pierre-Elliott" == Pierre-Elliott Bécue  writes:
> 
> Pierre-Elliott> And having seen almost no one telling Geraldo such a
> Pierre-Elliott> thing, I find it disturbing to see that much people
> 
> I'm writing this to make it clear that Geraldo's message was not okay.
> One of the messages Geraldo did get was an official statement from the
> DPL that  his approach was not welcome in Debian.
> He indicated he was leaving our community as a result.
> Perhaps he didn't get a lot of messages, but that statement and the
> result that he left are important to consider.
He also got a listmaster mail.

Alex - Debian Listmaster 

Re: Upgrades of godard (salsa) and bendel (lists) today

[Alexander Wirt]

On Mon, 23 Dec 2019, Alexander Wirt wrote:

Hi,

> we will update salsa and lists over the day, expect problems and outages
> of lists.debian.org until we are done.
We are mostly done, some checks are still pending. If you encounter any
problems, please reach us in #alioth or #debian-lists. 

Thanks

Bastian and Alex


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: GR proposal: mandating VcsGit and VcsBrowser for all packages, using the "gbp patches unapplied" layout, and maybe also mandating hosted on Salsa

[Alexander Wirt]

On Wed, 24 Jul 2019, Alexander Zangerl wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:07:51 +0200, Philip Hands writes:
> >You may be responding on behalf of people who turn out not to exist.
> 
> well, i do exist. i have a few packages that aren't vc'd, and i don't see
> any need to change that. while i don't mind git, but i'd hate to be _forced_
> to use salsa and gbp.
> 
> so, why isn't it enough to recommend those things?
> 
> as long as the resulting package aupload conforms to the specs i see no
> need to bring out the big bludgeon of policy to silence the
> minority packagers/old farts whose packages are older than 10y/people who 
> don't like salsa.
I don't think that correlates with being old or experienced. 

Alex



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course

[Alexander Wirt]

On Sat, 06 Jul 2019, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:

> On Sat, Jul 06, 2019 at 08:00:58PM +0200, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > But that is my personal mindset I am coming from. If such a mindset is
> > outdated nowadays and not wanted anymore I offer to resign as a listmaster.
> 
> I think there are two separate aspects here. One is the "mindset" you're
> discussing here, which I'm positive is shared by most in the project.
> Another is explicitly pushing back against the DPL, whose constitutional
> roles include "Lead discussions amongst Developers", when he asks gently
> to please stop a discussion.
Sam wrote: 
"[listmaster copied in hopes they will agree with my assessment here]" 

That sentenced basically forced me to write a reply. Maybe, before presuming
consense, the DPL should talk to the other teams. Otherwise it may happen
that they don't agree. Without a reply everyone would expected that we agree, 
which is apparently not the case. 

> I'm sure that was not your intention, but to bystanders that gives the
> feeling that you're undermining the DPL's authority, and gets in the way
> of the DPL doing his constitutional job in this specific area. So,
> personally, I'm torn here: I agree with your open discussion mindset,
> but the main issue here was (as I understand it at least) of a different
> nature.
In fact I think the dpl is undermining the authority of the delegates when he
acts in a way like that. We have a process for such things: people complain
and we (the listmasters) act on those complaints. The DPL is still free to
overwrite our decision afterwards if we don't agree with him. 

> No need to threaten resignation about this, I'm sure your work as
> listmaster is still very much appreciated in the project (and certainly
> it is appreciated by me).
Thanks

Alex



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course

[Alexander Wirt]

On Sat, 06 Jul 2019, Alexander Wirt wrote:

> On Tue, 02 Jul 2019, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> 
> > On 15451 March 1977, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > 
> > > > The tone is absolutely civilized.
> > > > And yet, the cost to people who have to do this education again and
> > > > again is really high.
> > > Thats possible, but imho not a reason to kill the thread.
> > 
> > It is a very good reason to do so, and its sad that our listmasters
> > aren't more active in shutting down threads that repeat and repeat and
> > repeat all the same things ever again, every other month.
> > It would save so much energy that could be used so much more useful.
> > 
> > Same as getting rid of the "all lists are open" thing, something that
> > was nice in the past, but has definitely lost its value long ago.
> I can not do more than disagree. If you don't like a thread, killfile it. 
> But using censorship, banning, blocking threads you/someone don't like, just
> for the reason *you* don't find them useful is in my eyes just wrong and is
> some kind of censorship and should not be done in an open project like
> debian. 
> 
> But that is my personal mindset I am coming from. If such a mindset is
> outdated nowadays and not wanted anymore I offer to resign as a listmaster.
jftr, I completly support and welcome the work of the publicity and diversity
team here and I am proud the we changed our logo to show that we welcome
*everyone*. 

Alex


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course

[Alexander Wirt]

On Tue, 02 Jul 2019, Joerg Jaspert wrote:

> On 15451 March 1977, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> 
> > > The tone is absolutely civilized.
> > > And yet, the cost to people who have to do this education again and
> > > again is really high.
> > Thats possible, but imho not a reason to kill the thread.
> 
> It is a very good reason to do so, and its sad that our listmasters
> aren't more active in shutting down threads that repeat and repeat and
> repeat all the same things ever again, every other month.
> It would save so much energy that could be used so much more useful.
> 
> Same as getting rid of the "all lists are open" thing, something that
> was nice in the past, but has definitely lost its value long ago.
I can not do more than disagree. If you don't like a thread, killfile it. 
But using censorship, banning, blocking threads you/someone don't like, just
for the reason *you* don't find them useful is in my eyes just wrong and is
some kind of censorship and should not be done in an open project like
debian. 

But that is my personal mindset I am coming from. If such a mindset is
outdated nowadays and not wanted anymore I offer to resign as a listmaster.

Alex - Debian Listmaster



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course

[Alexander Wirt]

On Tue, 02 Jul 2019, Sam Hartman wrote:

> >>>>> "Alexander" == Alexander Wirt  writes:
> 
> Alexander> On Tue, 02 Jul 2019, Sam Hartman wrote:
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> [listmaster copied in hopes they will agree with my assessment
> >> here]
> Alexander> I don't agree, I think that discussion is important and
> Alexander> the tone is still civilized.
> 
> The tone is absolutely civilized.
> And yet, the cost to people who have to do this education again and
> again is really high.
Thats possible, but imho not a reason to kill the thread. 

Alex

Re: Pride Month Discussion has Run its Course

[Alexander Wirt]

On Tue, 02 Jul 2019, Sam Hartman wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> [listmaster copied in hopes they will agree with my assessment here]
I don't agree, I think that discussion is important and the tone is still
civilized.

Alex - Listmaster - but mainly speaking for myself

Re: godard (salsa) upgrade

[Alexander Wirt]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2018, Alexander Wirt wrote:

> Hi, 
> 
> we will do a security patching for gitlab soon. It should not take longer
> than 30 Minutes.
Ok, next try. The update arrived in git and I will do the update now. 

Alex



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Naming of teams on salsa.debian.org

[Alexander Wirt]

On Fri, 05 Jan 2018, Philipp Huebner wrote:

> Hi
> 
> Am 04.01.2018 um 16:57 schrieb Ximin Luo:
> > I think it's preferable not to look at this from the point-of-view of
> > individual teams, but from the perspective of the project as a whole.
> > When non-Debian people navigate salsa.d.o it would be nicer to have a
> > more systematic set of prefixes across all groups.
> 
> While I like well organized structures, doing this on salsa alone is not
> doing much IMHO, you would need to enforce the same policy for team
> names in all places debian, which is a much bigger task/issue.
> 
> 
> > 
> >> infinity0: please don't expect us to do such a mass renaming.
> > 
> > As above, I think the value of this exercise is to make the names
> > consistent across the whole project. If you mean you don't want to do
> > it out of effort, I'd be happy to do it - there's only about 100
> > teams so far, and I already supplied suggestions for about 12 of
> > them.
> 
> I hope no team name will be changed without the team(-owner)'s consent,
> as that might drive people away from salsa altogether, which is not what
> you want (I assume).
Of course not. 
Every team will have to create an issue. (If we decide on such structure, I
do really expect more than just a few mails). 

Alex



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: bendel (lists.debian.org) upgrade today

[Alexander Wirt]

On Sat, 21 Oct 2017, Alexander Wirt wrote:

> Hi, 
> 
> we will upgrade bendel to stretch this evening, expect problems and outages 
> of lists.debian.org until we are done.
if you can read that mail we are probably done. If you find a (new) problem,
please tell us (via mail or in #debian-lists).

Thanks
Alex



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: mailing list for debian-rtc activities

[Alexander Wirt]

On Mon, 26 Oct 2015, Daniel Pocock wrote:

> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I've requested a mailing list on lists.debian.org for general discussion
> about RTC
> 
> This includes supporting the rtc.debian.org service, use of any of the
> RTC packages and any related projects with communications features like
> FreedomBox, derivatives or blends.
> 
> https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=802493
> 
> As requested by the listmaster's policy[1], it would be helpful if
> people could please send messages to the bug supporting the request for
> a list:
> 
> mailto:802...@bugs.debian.org
> 
> The list will also provide an opportunity for people from the world of
> RTC technology, including XMPP and SIP, to participate even if they are
> not participating in other Debian mailing lists.
The bug is now pending, which means I am satisfied with the number of
requests and that the list will get created with the next batch. 

Alex
 

Re: Is there any inofficial cgit package since cgit is used on git.debian.org

[Alexander Wirt]

On Thu, 16 Oct 2014, Andreas Tille wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> when seeking for cgit in the Debian package pool I failed.  I wonder
> whether there is just some inofficial package if we follow the principle
> to package what we are using.  Any pointers to a source package or
> something like this?
cgit is currently in NEW (since debconf). The packaging is available via
https://github.com/formorer/pkg-cgit

Alex
 


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: https://lists.debian.org/20141016093530.gd17...@formorer.de

Generation of vcs snapshots on alioth

[Alexander Wirt]

Hi,

(fusion|g)forge has a feature that generates snapshot tarballs of all
supported VCS every night. Alioth has many, many repositories and snapshot
generation takes us several hours every day and it makes alioth really
unresponsive.

Therefore I disabled the feature in the morning. If you really rely on that
feature (I don't hope so), please get in touch with me/us. 

Alex


pgp0dn4bAug7G.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: GR proposal: code of conduct

[Alexander Wirt]

On Thu, 13 Feb 2014, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:

> On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 02:25:17PM +0100, Alexander Wirt wrote:
> > With my experience of the last weeks, I can just say: without me. I
> > won't public those bans in the public, if someone else wants to do
> > that: feel free, but please don't count on me.
> 
> FWIW, please note that (at least for me): publishing != announcing.
> 
> I think that bans should be made public --- as in: there exists a public
> web page where bans currently in effect are listed.  It does not follow
> from that that listmasters should mail some public list each time that
> page is updated.  In fact, I do think that sending announcements about
> new/changed bans is a bad idea, that it reinforces the drawbacks of
> publishing bans, and that it gives us nothing in terms of additional
> transparency.
Imho it is not a good idea to publish those bans at all.

> 
> Ideally, the maintenance of that page could be fully automated, on top
> of the tools you already use to manage bans.
there are no tools.

Alex



pgpzrNSiPyDDV.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: GR proposal: code of conduct

[Alexander Wirt]

On Wed, 12 Feb 2014, Stefano Zacchiroli wrote:

> On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 11:45:05AM -0600, Ean Schuessler wrote:
> > I hope many of you will agree that while the CoC may be a necessary
> > feature for our community it should be governed in a transparent,
> > policy-driven and unbiased manner with detailed record keeping and
> > peer review.
> 
> I agree with your general reasoning here. For mailing list bans, I think
> it's pretty straightforward to implement a mechanism that is up to the
> accountability requirements you ask for: just publish bans, as requested
> / discussed in [1]. I don't think we need anything more than that. With
> public bans one can review the actions of listmasters, without having to
> force them to provide elaborate reasoning (which, as Don pointed out,
> would be too bureaucratic with very little benefit, IMHO). If enough
> people in the project are against a specific listmaster action, they can
> resort to the usual mechanisms (e.g. a GR) to override listamsters.
> 
> I understand that there are drawbacks in public bans, as Don pointed out
> as well. But as I've argued in [2] I think the benefits for the
> community of publishing them outweigh the drawbacks.
With my experience of the last weeks, I can just say: without me. I won't
public those bans in the public, if someone else wants to do that: feel free,
but please don't count on me.

Alex



pgpazEkv7zTu5.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Code of Conduct: picking up

[Alexander Wirt]

Enrico Zini schrieb am Friday, den 29. November 2013:

> On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 12:19:57PM +0100, Thorsten Glaser wrote:
> 
> > > > Following the Code of Conduct I will probably be punished for making
> > > > jokes about the different gender, different religion, different
> > > > political opinion, and maybe even different OS. Where is the border,
> > > > where is the limit.
> > 
> > This is true. While many of such jokes are probably something
> > undesirable, some people go actively against any and all jokes
> > of that matter (I’ve had that Arabic script crashing Apple’s
> > text thingy in my .sig for a while, and got told off for it
> > very brusquely, so I had to remember to actively switch .sig
> > for when writing to Debian lists; and there are other cases
> > that aren’t even that “offensive”).
> 
> As was pointed out at the time, that was not a violation of some code of
> conduct, but a violation of the DMUP[1], which you were supposed to have
> read, understood and signed the moment you became a Debian Developer.
> 
> The DMUP is not a ritual about politeness, but a prerequisite that makes
> it possible for Debian to run its infrastructure.
> 
> I invite you to please take a moment to read it again. Further mistakes
> of that kind from you will not be tolerated, as far as I am concerned.
we (listmasters) thought indeed if we should just ban him for some time.
I am pretty that this will happen next time.

Alex
-- 
Alexander Wirt, formo...@formorer.de 
CC99 2DDD D39E 75B0 B0AA  B25C D35B BC99 BC7D 020A


--
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131129135034.gd10...@hawking.credativ.lan

Re: Should mailing list bans be published?

[Alexander Wirt]

On Sun, 27 Oct 2013, Boris Pek wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> > What do the rest of you think?
> 
> +1 for publishing the facts of bans and their reasons in a public mailing 
> list.
> Only with one correction which have been well described by Rhonda:
> 
> >>   - It provides a reference point for newcomers to the Debian community to
> >> judge their actions by, to understand what kinds of things will get 
> >> them
> >> banned from participation (although I expect few of the people who need
> >> such guidance will actually take advantage of it...)
> >
> >  People who goe by judging what action might get them banned are usually
> > those who try to *abuse* the rules and avoid banning instead of those
> > who would really like to go well with the community.  Taking "advantage
> > of it" already transports somehow a feeling of it might get abused.
> 
> By the way, how many bans we are talking about? Just few digits for estimating
> the scale of problem... For example, how many people (or email addresses) were
> banned this year or last year? How many mailing lists were affected?
Maybe ~2-3 bans a year. Banning is usually the last action I/we take and we
only use it if we really have to. 

Alex
 


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131027164642.ga15...@smithers.snow-crash.org

Re: Should mailing list bans be published?

[Alexander Wirt]

On Sun, 27 Oct 2013, Charles Plessy wrote:

> Le Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 10:46:41AM -0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> > 
> > What do the rest of you think?
> 
> Given how arbitrarly other bans have been proposed, I think that the outcome
> should stay private unless the banned person wishes so.  This will also reduce
> the pressure on the listmasters, by reducing the consequences of giving 
> unequal
> treatments to people.  Why not making the list readable on a machine open to
> the Debian Developers only ?
> 
> In parallel, I think that we need some technical or social pressure for
> limiting to 1 or 2 messages a day each individual contribution to long 
> threads.
That is nonsense. There will always be people that have to write more mails
to a thread. For example the maintainer of a discussed software, dpl, or the
ctte member. And so on. Such a general limitation just won't work.

Alex


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20131027063556.gf8...@smithers.snow-crash.org

Re: Installation & Live CD

[Alexander Wirt]

Philip Hands schrieb am Dienstag, den 17. Januar 2012:

> On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 09:37:24 +0100, Daniel Baumann 
>  wrote:
> > On 01/17/2012 04:41 AM, shirish शिरीष wrote:
> > > the debian-live team [...] haven't been able to communicate it on the web 
> > > their
> > > long-term plans.
> > 
> > there are no long-term plans; debian-live just creates the combined live
> > and installer media of whatever debian does.
> 
> Well, having recently tried to find an image that I might be able to
> recommend to someone new to Debian, and having quickly found the
> friendly looking live.debian.net front page, I was a bit surprised to be
> presented with this after a couple of clicks:
> 
>   http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/release/current-live/i386/
> 
> which is not exactly helpful to a newbie -- also, even I am left
> wondering why there is a split between i386 and amd64 if the images
> below are supposed to be hybrid.
> 
> Anyway, then I chose iso-hybrid, which seems like what I might be after,
> at which point we see that the only images that're small enough to
> actually fit onto a CD are the "rescue" and the "standard" ones, which
> appear not to include X, and so are hardly likely to be enticing to a
> newbie, so I gave her a copy of knoppix instead, which of course means
> that I have to say that what she's getting is very much like Debian,
> rather than saying that it _is_ Debian.
> 
> I can understand that an automated build is unlikely to be able to
> generate something that's just as good as knoppix, since the latter has
> been tuned over a long period to exactly that purpose, and perhaps the
> restriction of wanting it to fit on a CD is less important than it used
> to be, but I think it's a bit of a shame that we're not currently
> producing a debian-live CD that shows things off reasonably well for a
> beginner, and linking to it prominently without an arcane sub-directory
> tree to navigate, as suggested by the OP.
JFTR we generate the whole grml with grml-live out of jenkins. 

Alex
-- 
Alexander Wirt, formo...@formorer.de 
CC99 2DDD D39E 75B0 B0AA  B25C D35B BC99 BC7D 020A


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20120117095218.ga21...@hawking.credativ.lan

Re: Debian Mailing Lists <=> Forum

[Alexander Wirt]

Ritesh Raj Sarraf schrieb am Saturday, den 24. September 2011:

> On 09/23/2011 09:55 PM, Ben Pfaff wrote:
> > There already exist web-based interfaces to the Debian mailing
> > lists that support posting; e.g. see
> > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general
Evaluating gmane as a replacement/enhancement for our archive is still on my
list. Feel free to help :).

Alex - Debian Listmaster


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110924073153.ga2...@lisa.snow-crash.org

Re: I call solution

[Alexander Wirt]

Ben Hutchings schrieb am Tuesday, den 20. September 2011:

Hi,
> On Tue, 2011-09-20 at 16:36 +0200, Jorge Luis Pinilla Guzman wrote:
> > Hello.
> > I ask please that this link is removed
> > http://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2007/09/msg00077.html
> > because noe have given my permission to exhibit ininternet use
> > personal data as it comes transcends my phone and I'm bothered.
> [...]
> 
> The Debian list information pages clearly state that messages sent to
> the lists will be public.  By sending mail to the list address you give
> permission to reproduce it; that is the whole purpose of a mailing list.
> 
> But in any case, the people responsible for list maintenance can be
> reached at .
No problem, here we are:

The Debian-Listarchives-Policy is to NOT remove or alter any postings
if they are published.

Even if we would, it wouldn't help, as our lists are archived
elsewhere[*], so once an email has been accepted it is out in the wild
with its entire content and addresses and theres no way to get it back.

The one exception to this rule is, when the posting is clearly spam.
In that case press the 'Report as spam' button at the top of the page
to nominate the posting for reviewing.

Please see http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/#disclaimer,
http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/disclaimer and
http://wiki.debian.org/Teams/ListMaster/ListArchiveSpam
for more information

[*] elsewhere are most likely http://gmane.org, http://groups.google.com,
http://mail-archive.com, http://osdir.com/ml/, http://markmail.org,
http://marc.info, http://www.nabble.com/Debian-f24.html but there are
more public and private archives out there.

Alex, Debian Listmaster


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110921062540.ga28...@smithers.snow-crash.org

Re: Public Key

[Alexander Wirt]

petroniushatschiim...@arcor.de schrieb am Friday, den 09. September 2011:

> Hello,
> 
> what about public key from backports.org?
> 
> Aptitude tells me, is not available.
> 
> Distro : 
> Lenny, AMD 64
it is in the debian keyring. you should update all security updates and point
releases for your lenny, then it should be available. And btw. it is now 
backports.debian.org.

Alex


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110909164638.gb12...@smithers.snow-crash.org

Re: Doesn't Debian work from a live cd?

[Alexander Wirt]

Denny Nebgen schrieb am Thursday, den 04. August 2011:

> Hi iI was interested in trying Debian Linux on a laptop and was
> surprised the only options involved installation before I could even
> try the distro out. Is this the normal way it works? No trying it
> out without an installation?
http://live.debian.net/

Alex


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20110804130835.ga21...@smithers.snow-crash.org

Re: etherpad clone on debian.net

[Alexander Wirt]

Francesca Ciceri schrieb am Sunday, den 10. October 2010:

> Hi all,
> I'm a member of Debian l10n-italian team and I'm organizing a sort translation
> party for users who want to contribute but who don't know exactly how to do
> it. :)
> 
> So, the idea is to do a little introduction on IRC (explaining the "theory") 
> and then
> translate - in a collaborative way - a file (probably a web page or DPN),
> copying and pasting the english version into a clone of etherpad and working 
> directly on it 
> with the attendees at the translation party.
> 
> I've already done it with some people from the IRC channel #debian-it and
> #debianizzati and it goes not too bad.
> 
> So, here's my question: does a clone of etherpad [1] exist on debian.net or
> debian.org?
> And if not, can we install && configure it?
we (as in the backports team) alway use titanpad.com which is run by a fellow
dd and a friend of him. 

Alex


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20101010170428.ga4...@nelson.snow-crash.org

Re: Squeeze, firmware and installation

[Alexander Wirt]

Steve McIntyre schrieb am Monday, den 24. May 2010:

Hi, 

*snip*
> >> I'm guessing that we're not likely to want the extra images for all
> >> architectures: i386/amd64/powerpc(?). Any others?
> >
> >I have no idea.  I only use i386 and amd64. :)
> 
> Quite. Anybody else?
I think we should also include ppc, especially for the powerbook users with a
b43. 
 
Alex


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Archive: http://lists.debian.org/20100524155156.gb24...@lisa.snow-crash.org

Re: Switching the default startup method

[Alexander Wirt]

Luk Claes schrieb am Monday, den 24. August 2009:

*snip*
> Why would file-rc not work properly with dependency based booting?
you know what file-rc is doing? You have a configfile where you list your
services and the bootlevels. So we have a configfile here. I would have to
reorder the whole file for dependency based booting, but how can I do this
reliable? And even if I would be able to do this, this would mean to change a
user configuration file which is against policy. 

> You might want to look if insserv overrides can help.
> 
> What is broken with the usage of update-rc.d or the debconf switch?
a) in my eyes low is the wrong priority as it changes vital system setting
without further notice. Also a NEWS item would be useful. Another problem is
that the changes are not revertible. 

b) 

apt-get install file-rc
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree   
Reading state information... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  insserv sysv-rc
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  file-rc
WARNING: The following essential packages will be removed.
This should NOT be done unless you know exactly what you are doing!
  sysv-rc (due to sysvinit)
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 2 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 36.6kB of archives.
After this operation, 373kB disk space will be freed.
You are about to do something potentially harmful.
To continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say!'
 ?] Yes, do as I say!
Get:1 http://127.0.0.1 sid/main file-rc 0.8.11 [36.6kB]
Fetched 36.6kB in 0s (194kB/s)
(Reading database ... 14880 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing insserv ...
error: insserv must be disabled before it is removed, to
error: make sure the boot system is still usable.
error: To disable, run dpkg-reconfigure insserv
dpkg: error processing insserv (--remove):
 subprocess installed pre-removal script returned error exit status 1
dpkg: sysv-rc: dependency problems, but removing anyway as you requested:
 insserv depends on sysv-rc.
 sysvinit depends on sysv-rc | file-rc; however:
  Package sysv-rc is to be removed.
  Package file-rc is not installed.
Removing sysv-rc ...
Processing triggers for man-db ...
Errors were encountered while processing:
 insserv
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1

- ok there we are... 
dpkg-reconfigure insserv
info: Disabling dependency based boot system
mv: cannot stat `/usr/sbin/update-rc.d.distrib': No such file or directory

funny. 

This is the point where I say its broken. I would have to reinstall sysv-rc. Do 
a 
dpkg-reconfigure insserv and after that try the install of file-rc again. Hey 
this really 
can't be the way. 


Alex

P.S. I'm not against insserv and file-rc per se. But the way its done is wrong. 
There are so many 
ways updates can break and just making insserv quasi essential without further 
notice and/or chance to 
stop the conversion is not correct in my eyes, especially if you can't revert 
the change. 

Also I want to have the freedom to get rid of it if I want.

I hope my points are getting clearer now. 



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: Switching the default startup method

[Alexander Wirt]

Raphael Hertzog schrieb am Monday, den 24. August 2009:

*snip*

> So please point us to bugs related to breakages on upgrades (there have
> been some I know, but I think Petter dealt with them correctly) if you
> want to use that argument to not switch to insserv by default. The
> current bugs that you pointed out only have to do with file-rc
> users that are not happy.
> 
> I would like to mention the fact that the new file-rc maintainer is not
> really cooperative either (thus not improving the situation for its
> users). It would be nice if Alexander pointed out why he doesn't want to
> fix 539609, his angry reply in
> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=539591#15 doesn't bring
> the discussion forward while Petter tried to lay the path to allow file-rc
> to be a working alternative again.
I don't see any point on supporting insserv within file-rc. I use file-rc to
have an alternative to such a system. File-rc is different and will not work
properly with dependency based booting. I think resorting the configuration
file (hint, its a user file) is not a solution - so how should I implement it
in file-rc?. Its all about choice and also I don't like if another maintainer
which is not able to see its own bugs like to force me on its - in my eyes -
broken solution. All I want to have is that sysv-rc is working properly, its
usage of update-rc.d together with the debconf switch is just broken and a
bug and reacting on this bug with filling a bug against file-rc that it
should insserv in the future is not ok. 

Alex



-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org

Re: Need of non-germany-tree in Debian?

[Alexander Wirt]

Holger Levsen schrieb am Sonntag, den 15. Juli 2007:

> Hi,
> 
> On Sunday 15 July 2007 01:36, Florian Weimer wrote:
> > Huh?  Distributing computer games without the necessary permission
> > under applicable youth protection laws is already forbidden.
> [..]
> > planetpenguin-racer is affected as well.  It doesn't matter whether
> > the game is violent or not.  There's only an exception for mostly
> > educational games.
> 
> Wasn't there another exception if the game(s) is(/are) part of some bigger 
> software bundle, i.e. a linux distribution?
Of course, as long as not the game itself is the main reason of the
compilation, for example if its an operating system its legal. This, of
course, does not count for games that are really forbidden (on the index),
like doom, rise of the triad or quake. Otherwise I wouldn't be able to
provide Debian DVDs for events like Linuxtag. 

Best wishes
Alex


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: stable / backports (Re: When Debian 4.1 will arrive... will anyone care?)

[Alexander Wirt]

Martin Schulze schrieb am Freitag, den 20. April 2007:

Hi Joey, 

*snip*

> > Backports are recompiled packages from testing, so they will run without
> > new libraries on a stable Debian distribution.  It is not always
> > possible to install a package from testing without pulling in lots more
> > packages from testing.
> 
> Fwiw, backports also pull in newer version of certain libraries if they
> are needed by the backport.
We prefer to compile against stable versions of libs whereever possible. 
So in a best-case-scenario all libs can be used from stable and don't have to
be pulled in from bpo. 

Alex
 


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Policy (re)delegation

[Alexander Wirt]

Anthony Towns schrieb am Donnerstag, den 02. November 2006:

> Hey all,
> 
> With this mail I'm formally delegating Debian's policy maintenance to the
> following group:
> 
>   Manoj Srivastava <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   Russ Allbery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   Junichi Uekawa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   Andreas Barth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>   Margarita Manterola <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*snip*

Thank you very much for this decision, something like this was what I hoped
for by seconding maxx GR. 

Thanks

Alex

P.S. I agree with maxx that no further vote is neccessary. 


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Proposal: Source code is important for all works in Debian, and required for programmatic ones

[Alexander Wirt]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Don Armstrong schrieb am Montag, den 18. September 2006:

I also second this clarified proposal. 

> == BEGIN PROPOSAL =
> 
> The Free Software movement is about enabling users to modify the works
> that they use on their computer; about giving users the same
> information that copyright holders and upstream developers have. As
> such, a critical part of the Free Software movement is the
> availability of source (that is, the form of the work that a copyright
> holder or developer would use to actually modify the work) to users.
> This makes sure that users are not held hostage by the whims (or lack
> of interest or financial incentive) of upstreams and copyright
> holders.
> 
> Different types of works have different forms of source. For some
> works, the preferred form for modification may not actually be
> digitally transferable.[1] For others, the form that originally was
> preferred may have been destroyed at some point in time, and is no
> longer available to anyone. However, to the greatest extent
> possible,[2] the availability of source code to users is a critical
> aspect of having the freedom to modify the software that is running
> upon ones computer.
> 
> Recognizing this, the Debian Project:
> 
>   A. Reaffirms that programmatic works distributed in the Debian
>  system (IE, in main) must be 100% Free Software, regardless of
>  whether the work is designed to run on the CPU, a subsidiary
>  processing unit, or by some other form of execution. That is,
>  works must include the form that the copyright holder or upstream
>  developer would actually use for modification.
> 
>   B. Strongly recommends that all non-programmatic works distribute
>  the form that the copyright holder or upstream developer would
>  actually use for modification. Such forms need not be distributed
>  in the orig.tar.gz (unless required by license) but should be
>  made available on upstream websites and/or using Debian project
>  resources.
> 
>   C. Reaffirms its continued support of users whose hardware (or
>  software) requires works which are not freely licensed or whose
>  source is not available by making such works available in
>  non-free and providing project resources to the extent that
>  Debian is capable of doing so.
> 
>   D. Requests that vendors of hardware, even those whose firmware is
>  not loaded by the operating system, provide the prefered form for
>  modification so that purchasers of their hardware can
>  exercise their freedom to modify the functioning of their
>  hardware.
> 
> 
> 1: Consider film negatives, or magnetic tape in the case of audio
>recordings.
> 
> 2: Here it must be emphasized that we refer to "technically possible"
>or "possible for some party" as opposed to "legally possible for
>Debian". We also assume digital distribution, and do not attempt to
>require the distribution of physical objects.
> 
> = END PROPOSAL ===
> 
> If necessary, consider this an amendment under A.1.2; seconders, you
> may object to the "changes" under A.1.5. (If you decide to re-second
> this proposal, please only second the part between the === lines.)
> 
> I've also attached the suggested content for the v.d.o webpages for
> this option in the interest of completeness.
> 
> 
> Don Armstrong
> 
> 1: 
> http://cvs.debian.org/webwml/english/vote/2006/vote_004.wml?root=webwml&r1=1.3&r2=1.4
> 2: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2006/09/msg00228.html
> 3: http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2006/09/msg00235.html
> -- 
> CNN/Reuters: News reports have filtered out early this morning that US
> forces have swooped on an Iraqi Primary School and detained 6th Grade 
> teacher Mohammed Al-Hazar. Sources indicate that, when arrested,
> Al-Hazar was in possession of a ruler, a protractor, a set square and
> a calculator. US President George W Bush argued that this was clear
> and overwhelming evidence that Iraq indeed possessed weapons of maths 
> instruction.
> 
> http://www.donarmstrong.com  http://rzlab.ucr.edu

> 
>  Don Armstrong
>   [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> 
> 
> 
>René van Bevern
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   
>Frank Küster
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   
>Pierre Habouzit
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
>   
>Alexander Wirt
>

Re: Rethinking stable updates policy

[Alexander Wirt]

Martin Schulze schrieb am Samstag, den 26. August 2006:

*snip* 
> That's nothing for a *stable* Debian release.  However, thanks to
> nobse there is the backports repository which is perfectly suited for
> such an effort.  Not sure if anybody bothered to backport Mozilla and
> friends yet, though.  (I guess not.  Hint! Hint!)
Hey, thats already there: 

http://backports.org/debian/pool/main/f/firefox/
http://backports.org/debian/pool/main/t/thunderbird/

But please read the instructions before:
http://backports.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=instructions
 
Alex



signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Proposal: Source code is important for all works in Debian, and required for programmatic ones

[Alexander Wirt]

Alexander Wirt schrieb am Freitag, den 25. August 2006:

> Don Armstrong schrieb am Donnerstag, den 24. August 2006:
> 
> > I'd like to propose the following option to the current GR process.
> I second this proposal. 
I have to say a few mores word to it. It would be fully ok for me if we
release etch with this non-free firmware, but this problem should be
adressed with etch+1. 

Alex



signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: Proposal: Source code is important for all works in Debian, and required for programmatic ones

[Alexander Wirt]

Don Armstrong schrieb am Donnerstag, den 24. August 2006:

> I'd like to propose the following option to the current GR process.
I second this proposal. 
> 
> As I will (starting late sunday PDT) be away for a week and a few days
> at Burning Man,[i] I will be unable to appropriately respond to
> corrections and suggested amendments during that time. However, I will
> do so immediately at my return.
> 
> 
> ==
> 
> The Free Software movement is about enabling users to modify the works
> that they use on their computer; about giving users the same
> information that copyright holders and upstream developers have. As
> such, a critical part of the Free Software movement is the
> availability of source (that is, the form of the work that a copyright
> holder or developer would use to actually modify the work) to users.
> This makes sure that users are not held hostage by the whims (or lack
> of interest or financial incentive) of upstreams and copyright
> holders.
> 
> Different types of works have different forms of source. For some
> works, the preferred form for modification may not actually be
> digitally transferable.[1] For others, the form that originally was
> preferred may have been destroyed at some point in time, and is no
> longer available to anyone. However, to the greatest extent
> possible,[2] the availability of source code to users is a critical
> aspect of having the freedom to modify the software that is running
> upon ones computer.
> 
> Recognizing this, the Debian Project:
> 
>   A. Reaffirms that programmatic works distributed in the Debian
>  system (IE, in main) must be 100% Free Software, regardless of
>  whether the work is designed to run on the CPU, a subsidiary
>  processing unit, or by some other form of execution. That is,
>  works must include the form that the copyright holder or upstream
>  developer would actually use for modification.
> 
>   B. Strongly recommends that all non-programmatic works distribute
>  the form that the copyright holder or upstream developer would
>  actually use for modification. Such forms need not be distributed
>  in the orig.tar.gz (unless required by license) but should be
>  made available on upstream websites and/or using Debian project
>  resources.
> 
>   C. Reaffirms its continued support of users whose hardware (or
>  software) requires works which are not freely licensed or whose
>  source is not available by making such works available in
>  non-free and providing project resources to the extent that
>  Debian is capable of doing so.
> 
>   D. Requests that vendors of hardware, even those whose firmware is
>  not loaded by the operating system, provide the prefered form for
>  modification so that purchasers of their hardware are can
>  exercise their freedom to modify the functioning of their
>  hardware.
> 
> 
> 1: Consider film negatives, or magnetic tape in the case of audio
>recordings.
> 
> 2: Here it must be emphasized that we refer to "technically possible"
>or "possible for some party" as opposed to "legally possible for
>Debian". We also assume digital distribution, and do not attempt to
>require the distribution of physical objects.
> 
> ===
> 
> 
> Obvious points for discussion:
> 
> 1. I would really like to be able to commit to some form of
>installation support for users who need to be able to use non-free
>firmware to install their system; some more work is needed in d-i
>land, though to make sure that this is separated out and that it's
>trivial to have a Free system, and know that what you're
>installing/using/distributing is Free Software.
> 
> 2. Distributing the huge source forms for non-programmatic works is
>going to be a problem. I don't think they're needed in the
>orig.tar.gz, because that would needlessly bloat the archive, and
>it's probably not required unless the works are copylefted.
>However, we should make an effort to encourage upstreams to make
>them available and likewise make them available to our users. [Even
>if it's just in people.debian.org/~you/ or similar and mentioned in
>the copyright file, it'd be a good step.]
> 
> 3. If there is substantial objection to D, I will probably remove it;
>however firmware, whether we happen to distribute it or not, is a
>hazard to user's freedom to modify the functioning of their
>computers.
> 
> 4. Finally, if in the context of the release of etch, we need to
>compromise our ideals and accept programmatic works without source,
>we should do so by specifically exempting them from DFSG 2 for the
>purpose of releasing etch by a GR which needs to meet the 3:1
>requirement instead of attempting to define ourselves into such a
>position, especially when source code 

Re: irc.debian.org

[Alexander Wirt]

Steve McIntyre schrieb am Sonntag, den 30. April 2006:

> I've heard it suggested by a variety of people that we should move the
> official irc.debian.org alias away from freenode to oftc. I can see
> that more and more of my own Debian IRC discussions are on oftc, to
> the extent that I'm (currently) not on any freenode channels at
> all.
> 
> On another front, oftc is also a sister org under the SPI
> umbrella.
> 
> Thoughts?
Seconded, just move. 

Alex

Re: Linux Forums

[Alexander Wirt]

Andreas Schuldei schrieb am Sonntag, den 22. Januar 2006:

> * Martin Schulze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2006-01-22 09:11:56]:
> 
> > Mark Daher wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > 
> > > My name is Mark Daher, owner of LinuxForums.org , I would like to make 
> > > my site the official forums of the Debian since there aren't any, 
> > > helping people with Debian, etc.
> > 
> > Did debianHELP, Planet Debian and debianforum.de recently close?
> 
> why ask this question? couldnt you check for yourself?
Mark asked for being the official forum and told there were no other. 
Its not okay for $forumhoster to be the "official" debian forum while there
are several other. Thats all Joey wanted to say, I'm not able to the anything
else in his mail and no reason to start such a flame war, so please cool
down. 

Alex



signature.asc
Description: Digital signature

Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

[Alexander Wirt]

Stephen Frost schrieb am Sonntag, den 24. Juli 2005:

> * Alexander Wirt ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > Florian Weimer schrieb am Sonntag, den 24. Juli 2005:
> > 
> > > How is Debian related to the "Debian Core Consortium"?  Why are they
> > > using the name "Debian"?
> > Maybe you sould wait until its been more than a plan to do something before
> > crying about names. 
> > 
> > There isn't anything official yet about the Consortium.
> 
> No, actually, it's probably better to make sure those involved
> understand the trademark issues *before* they go off and develop
> advertising based off it, tell reporters about it, and who knows what
> else.  The earlier the better since the earlier they're aware of it the
> easier it is for them to change it.
Do you have seen who is involved into that consortium? 

I'm pretty sure they know about the trademark stuff.

Regards
Alex

Re: "Debian" Core Consortium

[Alexander Wirt]

Florian Weimer schrieb am Sonntag, den 24. Juli 2005:

> How is Debian related to the "Debian Core Consortium"?  Why are they
> using the name "Debian"?
Maybe you sould wait until its been more than a plan to do something before
crying about names. 

There isn't anything official yet about the Consortium.

Best wishes
Alex


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Screenshots

[Alexander Wirt]

Nico Golde schrieb am Montag, den 04. Juli 2005:

> Hello Andrew,
> 
> * Andrew Karppinen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-07-04 21:47]:
> > Why are there are no screen shots on the Debian site? I think some screen 
> > shots would help. People can make a visual connection to what it could 
> > look like. It may generate more interest in the project. I tried the 
> > search feature and it was disabled on the site.
> 
> Because debian isn't a desktop system.
Of course its a desktop, its all. So we are not able to provide representable
screenshots, because Debian looks as YOU want it, not as somebody else
thought. You imagine it, you can do it. With debian is everything possible,
so we have no "standard" Design like other distributions. 

Best wishes 
Alex


-- 
To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: alpha project machines

[Alexander Wirt]

Gerrit Pape schrieb am Sonntag, den 03. Juli 2005:

> On Thu, Apr 14, 2005 at 01:53:22PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote:
> > * Martin Michlmayr - Debian Project Leader ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [050414 
> > 13:45]:
> > > * Andreas Barth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-04-14 13:25]:
> > > > > BTW, Noah Meyerhans at MIT offered two Alphas but so far he hasn't
> > > > > been taken up on his offer.
> > > > As far as I know we're not short on offers. Alexander Wirt also offered
> > > > an Alpha.
> > > Yes, and these offers are the reason I haven't suggested spending
> > > money on lully so far; but if people think fixing lully makes more
> > > sense, I'm more than willing to spend money on it.
> > Frankly speaking, I don't mind whether we take a new machine up, or fix
> > lully. But I think it's not ok to have a machine marked as "down - root
> > fs drive died, no response from local admin" for quite a long time
> > (actually, the "no response" should not happen at all), _and_ having
> > only one alpha buildd (and as escher is also down, no developers
> > machine). Whichever way we take out from it, is IMHO a common decision
> > by the porters, debian-admin, ... But I'm really worried that this
> > issues remains open for so long.
> 
> Hi, it would be nice to finally have access to an alpha project machine
> again, not only to check an architecture specific build failure of a
> package I maintain.  Any news on this topic?
My alpha is still waiting for any answer. But I'm able to give access to if
somebody asks for personally. 
Just drop me a mail and I will give you access. 

Best wishes
Alex

P.S.: Is it really wise to have only one buildd and no maschines with access
for developers? My alpha is currently just collecting dust and it would be
sad if this will be its end...

Re: question about a domain name

[Alexander Wirt]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb am Dienstag, den 24. Mai 2005:

> Dear Sir, Madam
> 
> I was looking for buy a domain name (mine) in .org but when I use
> www.brou.org, I arrive on www.debian.org !
From your site:
This computer has installed the Debian GNU/Linux operating system but 
has
nothing to do with the Debian GNU/Linux project. If you want to report
something about this host's behavior or domain, please contact the ISPs
involved directly, not the Debian Project.

Any further questions?

Alex

Re: Debian Linux Deutsch

[Alexander Wirt]

Told him that the preferred Language on this list is english


Hallo Bernd, 


Die bevorzugte Sprache auf dieser Liste ist englisch. 

Am Sam, 2003-03-08 um 17.26 schrieb 1und1:
> Hallo, wollte nur sagen, dass ich gerade Versuche mit Knoppix mache,
> als jahrelanger Gates Jünger wollte ich halt auch mal Linux testen,
> daher wollte ich das Handbuch für Debian downloaden, aber oh Schreck,
> wenn ich in 20 Jahren so gut englisch kann, dass ich das Handbuch
> lesen und verstehen kann, dann kann ich auch mit Linux arbeiten.
>  
> Also bleibt für mich weiter nur  Microschrott weiter zu benutzen :-((
Na mal nicht übertreiben, ein wenig Suche hätte das deutsch Debian
Anwenderhandbuch hervorgerufen:

http://www.openoffice.de/linux/buch/

Ausserdem wäre die richte Liste für diese Mail, die debian-user-de Liste
gewesen.

mfg formorer