Re: DEP-5: Structure for multiple copyright statements (was: DEP-5: general file syntax)
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 11:36:54AM +1200, Lars Wirzenius wrote: > On su, 2010-08-22 at 08:00 +1000, Ben Finney wrote: > > Could we take advantage of the natural “©” marker to indicate each > > copyright statement? > > That's an interesting idea, but would people in general find it easy or > difficult to write that character? (I'd have to copy-paste it, for > instance, since my keymap does not seem to have a binding for it.) AltGr-c-o or RightAlt-c-0 or some other similar compose sequence? For most common characters not on my keyboard "man groff_char" is my usual copy-paste source :) > The word "Copyright" or the ASCII-art "(C)" might be substituted. The ASCII-art has no legal meaning AFAIK, it's only the word "copyright" or the symbol "©" that can really be used. Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `-GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: buildd/porter/maintainer roles again
On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 04:53:51AM +, Clint Adams wrote: > On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 11:27:43AM -0400, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > > - I have no clue who the powerpc porters are, if there are any. > > I guess we can't rely on the lenny qualification wiki pages. I'm still interested in powerpc, and while it's not my primary interest, I do follow the powerpc list, and would try to investigate any issues brought up on there as time allows, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who could do this. The main thing is making sure we are notified of problems! Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `-GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: dpkg feature implementation
On Tue, Jan 05, 2010 at 12:50:33PM +0100, Martin Wuertele wrote: > Hi dE! > > * dE . [2010-01-05 12:13]: > > > The developers and administrators will have to understand my point. > > > > This is the only reason why people refuse to install any Linux OS. I > > really don't have an answer to these simple windows users when they > > say "what about offline software installation?". Now I cant explain > > them technical procedures to it, they'll happily reject it. > > As "simple" as with windows: get the CD/DVD. While I do agree with the prevailing sentiment that the existing tools are perfectly capable of handing the job, there may well be a place for such a distribution mechanism for third-party packagers with no dedicated apt-gettable repo. If a package could be distributed in a larger aggregate of packages along with all its direct dependencies (down to libc?), the result would be rather large. Of the packages distributed, only those absent or newer would need installing. As mentioned, a loopback mount of a distributed file could be used with apt-get to achieve just this, but it's going to require some manual messing to get it to work. We already have all the pieces, but they are not particularly user-friendly to use in this fashion as they stand. Some front-end which could handle such things automatically would be pretty useful IMO. A loopback-mounted compressed filesystem would be a neat mechanism, and would bear some similarities with MacOS .dmg images (though would use a proper package manager). Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `-GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian News and new "About Debian" footer
On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 05:44:41PM +0200, Holger Levsen wrote: > Hi, > > On Freitag, 9. Oktober 2009, Markus wrote: > > First let me say that I'm not a Debian Developer but a Debian user for > > about 10 years now. I love Debian both for his technical quality and for > > being one of the few (popular) distributions which shows recpect to the GNU > > project in his name and talks about free software. As I don't have this > > opportunity that often: Thank you all for your great work! > > Thank you. Though we will start to refer to our distribution as "Debian" > instead of "Debian GNU/Linux" soon, when we'll ship more than one kernel in > our stable release. "Debian GNU/Linux/FreeBSD" would just sound strange :-) What about "Debian GNU" (they are both GNU libc-based are they not)? -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `-GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-project-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmas...@lists.debian.org
Re: Debian redesign
On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 10:28:33PM +0200, Harald Braumann wrote: > I must say, I like the current swirl and I would miss it. But then I'm > maybe just conservative. I never understood the sense of re-branding, > re-naming, re-designing everything just for the sake of it. I don't know, while the swirl is familiar and everything, there's nothing in it that really jumps out at me and says that's a really great logo that captures what Debian is in the same sense that (off the top of my head) the VMware (in particular) or RedHat/SuSE/FreeBSD logos do. There are a lot of similar swirl logos around which look awfully similar (some even having strangely similar spiky bits; the last one I saw was on a bottle of drinking water but in silver rather than red). I really liked the personality of the "Debian chicken", though it wouldn't have hurt to redraw it nicely. Maybe a bit Linux-specific though. I also really liked the black and white GNU + penguin on the old Apache default index page with the proud and mighty Gnu looking down gravely towards the small upstart Penguin! Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `-GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Debian redesign
On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 10:38:42AM -0400, Matthias Julius wrote: > Frans Pop writes: > > >> certainly not because I dont like (semi)naked people or whatever - but > >> because I dont like stereotypes, and especially not to represent an > >> universal OS. > > > > I can agree to some point with the stereotyping, but that does not change > > the fact that *nothing* in the posters tells people they should conform > > to them. > > What might help avoid stereotypes is to increase the diversity of the > people shown. Increase the average age and dress them up completely > differently. This could promote the universality aspect. Possibly. I liked the intention of the images, and the way the text slogan related to the picture. However, I wasn't entirely sure what to take from the combination that was specific to Debian. If I didn't already know what Debian was or what it was about, I think I'd be rather confused. If the intent of the whole is to convey particular messages about Debian the Project and the Distribution, I think that (for me at least) it was a bit too subtle, since I didn't really identify with them as representing Debian as I see it. That's not to say I didn't like them. I thought the artwork was *great*, and really thought they were nice. I didn't really find the images "semi-naked" or inappropriate as others did, though I suspect these images are not entirely representative of the Debian users and developers I know personally ;-) Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `-GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Continuing Debian Education
Don Armstrong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > One of the things that came up recently is the desire to organize a > series of lectures/tutorials/talks/discussions on IRC or video about > various aspects of Debian. This sounds great. I particularly liked Lars' IRC tutorial about getting started with Python some time ago. This was very well-prepared and informative, and doing more of this sort of thing would be very beneficial for all of us. I'll volunteer myself for a tutorial about setting up schroot and sbuild for package building if that would be of interest. Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `-GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. pgp9fq2jTE8cU.pgp Description: PGP signature
Bug#292330: use UTF-8 by default
martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > also sprach Thorsten Glaser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2007.06.16.1528 +0100]: >> That's what I did, but the idea is not to have to do that. (Besides, >> "C" is installed by default, so we need some kind of "C.UTF-8", whose >> role is – for LC_CTYPE – usually fulfilled by en_US.UTF-8.) > > Please stop CCing debian-project. > > Does a C.UTF-8 exist? If yes, then this is a sound proposal, > I think. I believe that the "C" locale is supposed to be US_ASCII only. Rationale: ISO C99 §7.4 (ctype "functions that have locale-specific aspects only when not in the "C" locale...) Many of the constraints this section for the various is* functions would restrict the "C" locale to US_ASCII. UTF-8 would break the constraints over e.g. whitespace characters, digits, lowercase characters etc.. I'm not sure who would want to use C.UTF-8. If you want a basic non-Unicode locale with known behaviour on all platforms, the "C" locale is useful, particularly when doing serialisation where localisation would break file formats. If you want Unicode, why would you not just use the appropriate .UTF-8 locale for your language/country? Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `-GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. pgpepx184osIA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Openly speaking about a topic is always better than making it a taboo, > something to be hidden and ashamed of. Oftentimes, problems magically resolve themselves of their own accord when we ignore them for a while, and everyone forgets that they ever existed. Picking at things can make them worse, and you are succeeding well at making an otherwise small and inconsequential issue (from the perspective of the project as a whole) that may have resolved itself with time into something that the whole project is now aware of (and also quite tired to hearing about). Doing this has not helped you in any way! Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `-GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. pgpHkC6NSvoe4.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Public request that action be taken at whoever abused their technical power to remove me from the kernel team at alioth.
Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, May 29, 2007 at 10:11:01PM +0200, Andreas Barth wrote: >> * Sven Luther ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [070529 22:05]: >> > On Tue, May 29, 2007 at 08:26:20PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote: >> > > Please limit the number of posts per day to this thread. >> > >> > Lively discussion >> >> Lively discussion and DoS is a different thing. You do DoS. > > Then offer me a different medium. Please gather all your thoughts on the subject and write a letter, as concisely and to the point as possible. Print out 1000 copies and mail ONE COPY ONLY to each developer. > Then respond to my requests of an in RL meeting, or setup an irc > meeting with rules, or propose another media, like a web pages, with > an impartial judge and transparent handling. Or go ahead an create > the social comittee so many have asked for to deal with this issue. Why do you need an "impartial judge"? This is a communal volunteer project, not a court of law. Like it or not, you need to be able to cooperate with your fellow developers, despite their potential biases, likes and dislikes. Can't get along with particular folks? Then move on and do something more productive, or learn to work with them nicely. Complaining more won't help--we have already heard the arguments enough times over the last few years. We get that you can't work with certain developers. That's a problem you have not made sufficient efforts to either resolve or avoid. There was never a need to let things get this bad, but you did and are continuting to do so with this huge spam flood. Deal with it and carry on with life. Life isn't perfect; the rest of us accept that we don't always get our own way (irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the matter in question), and move on from that. > Sure, mail is not the best media, let's find something else, but the > status quo is not acceptable to me, despite all those whose sole > argument is "YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT AND LIVE WITH IT". That's just the way things really and truly are. That's the reality, whether you like it or not. If you want to change it, you need to make a big effort to rectify the damage you have caused to your relations with your fellow developers. Is this possible at this stage? I don't know. It's largely up to you to do it if you can. Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `-GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. pgpVNC8CJqeB0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian 2.4.3
"Michael Labowicz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: [Please don't top-post, and please trim what you quote to just the relevant parts.] > Maybe he's referring to the Linux Kernel? Not sure if there was a 2.4.3 > kernel There was a 2.4.3 kernel (the third point release in the 2.4 series), but it was shockingly bad. ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.4/linux-2.4.3.tar.bz2 That was around the time of huge VM and swap issues in 2.4. If they are using that, I would be very surprised. If they are, they really do need to upgrade. Regards, Roger -- .''`. Roger Leigh : :' : Debian GNU/Linux http://people.debian.org/~rleigh/ `. `' Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ `-GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848 Please GPG sign your mail. pgpMp8kFzJEHg.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Issues regarding powerpc and Sven
Wouter Verhelst <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, May 16, 2006 at 01:25:40PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote: >> Anthony Towns >> >> > Because we don't want to dishonour your mother, or diminish your loss by >> > reconciling it with Debian's priorities. You've been dealing with more >> > than what anyone could reaosonably expect you to recently -- and normal >> > people would respond to that by just not doing Debian stuff. [...] >> >> I think that was a disgraceful insult. Please retract it. > Actually, I think the next paragraph (which you happily cut away) made > pretty clear that Anthony was in awe of the amount of work that Sven was > still able to produce under these circumstances. Which is quite the > opposite of an insulte. Quite. I saw AJ's words as being complementary, not derogatory. I thought AJ's entire mail was impartial, diplomatic, non-inflammatory and showing the best path to achieve reconciliation and re-establish trust on both sides. Exactly what one would expect of a good DPL. (I was going to mail AJ privately to say that, but there's no harm saying it here.) -- Roger Leigh Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://www.debian.org/ GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848. Please sign and encrypt your mail. pgpPOS2VTZZld.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: irc.debian.org
Steve McIntyre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I've heard it suggested by a variety of people that we should move the > official irc.debian.org alias away from freenode to oftc. I can see > that more and more of my own Debian IRC discussions are on oftc, to > the extent that I'm (currently) not on any freenode channels at > all. > > On another front, oftc is also a sister org under the SPI > umbrella. > > Thoughts? Agreed. -- Roger Leigh Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/ Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://www.debian.org/ GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848. Please sign and encrypt your mail. pgpxxxC4xqqlG.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Debian etch
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Thomas Hoehn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > In case no japanese Debian user has told you yet - just to give you a > hint: the word "etch" (written as H) in Japanese means "indecent", > "lewd" or just "pornographic". Maybe you should rename this release or > at least the japanese version... Why not just translate the word "etch"? It's very difficult to pick a name that /doesn't/ mean something bad in at least one language around the world, so perhaps it's better if folks simply put the name in its correct context: that of a Toy Story character. Regards, Roger - -- Roger Leigh Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/ Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://www.debian.org/ GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848. Please sign and encrypt your mail. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8+ <http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/> iD8DBQFDuvlXVcFcaSW/uEgRAjIkAJwOfo/Cw0KkDMKz14rxnOZSShbKqgCg7b1b W3I9wMyq0Icr3M1xyDjX0A0= =z4nA -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: I need help
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 "Brad Stackhouse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Upon conducting a search on Google for my name, several references appear as > follows: [snip spam] > How do I get these references removed? This is urgent See http://www.debian.org/MailingLists/ for instructions, and mail the listmaster to have them removed. Regards, Roger - -- Roger Leigh Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/ Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://www.debian.org/ GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848. Please sign and encrypt your mail. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8+ <http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/> iD8DBQFDpw20VcFcaSW/uEgRAh97AKCkjwMRShmt4o0hDhKUXq9zNTA4cACdHvIO 0Cn0DnfVrd3eFQkM2ZIgb80= =kkK2 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Ubuntu/Debian cooperation
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Reinhard Tartler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > It is true that some MOTUs don't consider submitting to debian bts > as priority because of bad experiences they had because of > unresponsive and unhelpful Debian Maintainers. That doesn't solve any problems. If you have a problem with a maintainer, please report it. Debian doesn't want unresponsive or unhelpful maintainers either, but if we are not made aware of a problem, it can't be dealt with. > Besides, most of the patches I've done so far are rather patches > applied from debian bts, or fixes caused of transitions we do before > debian. If Ubuntu has done a transition, it's likely Debian will have to do the same transition sometime soon as well. You wouldn't want to accidentally make incompatible changes, so making the Debian maintainer aware of what you changed is important. Also, due to the number of incorrect patches I've seen, some additional peer review of your changes by the people who really understand the package wouldn't go amiss. > For other fixes (like improvements to .desktop files and such) we > are actually encouraged to submit do debian bts, because that way we > can simply sync the package from debian again and have less work > when merging the package on the next debian upload. Good. I would like it to be more "required" than "encouraged", however. > An other big load of patches are because we take new upstream versions > of the package. Do you really want that we submit a patch updating to > new upstream version? please not. I would. If you make a change which could be incompatible with future Debian versions, you will cause yourselves ongoing problems in the future. Making the Debian maintainer aware of the changes is important, because it might affect their planning and changes. Collaboration goes two ways, and ongoing coordination is required or ubuntu could well end up with serious problems. >> FUD :) It may be outdated info, which would be very very welcome >> indeed, but in no case FUD. > > You did imply that MOTU were adviced to NOT collaborate with debian. I > consider this as a implicit insult to the MOTU Team. We DO want to > cooperate, but have to face with accusations like this one or with > unresponsive or unhelpful maintainers, which can be really > frustrating. Please, you are reading a lot into a comment which has in fact been publicly stated several times. No one has insulted the team in this thread, so please tone it down. Regards, Roger - -- Roger Leigh Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/ Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://www.debian.org/ GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848. Please sign and encrypt your mail. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8+ <http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/> iD8DBQFDoZVRVcFcaSW/uEgRAtYtAKDBRk0csFXRDsGnavh0FfaQxUrZqQCgm1bb d7utgwQRUL7YJFjBju21xso= =avwa -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Complaint about #debian operator
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Tue, Dec 13, 2005 at 11:29:14AM -0800, Russ Allbery wrote: >> Andrew Suffield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> > On Mon, Dec 12, 2005 at 12:55:22PM +, Roger Leigh wrote: > >> >> This says you are wrong: >> >> >> >> http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/ > >> > So if I were to diff the Debian archive against the Fedora one, I'd be >> > contributing to Fedora? Cool! That'll bolster my CV a bit. > >> If Fedora were using the same packaging system so that the packaging diffs >> were meaningful, you separated out the diffs for the upstream source and >> the diffs for packaging, and you continued doing this on a regular basis >> so that Fedora maintainers could see what changes were made in Debian that >> they might be interested... yes, you would indeed be contributing to >> Fedora. > > As absurd as Andrew's comparison may seem, the diffs distributed from > http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/ are pretty underwhelming as far as > "contributing back to Debian" is concerned. I don't disagree. I would much rather every ubuntu change had a corresponding patch filed in the BTS, but I have found it useful a couple of times in the past. OTOH, I've seen a number of ubuntu patches which were blatantly wrong, where the maintainer clearly didn't grok the package they were changing. - -- Roger Leigh Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/ Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://www.debian.org/ GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848. Please sign and encrypt your mail. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8+ <http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/> iD8DBQFDoCS3VcFcaSW/uEgRAorJAJ0bN/qrjEOOF0Bnc9d0JkIJt96FjwCgo+3s E3/O4Fa9GwTs2g+MmU+GBYM= =hiDo -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Complaint about #debian operator
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Saturday 10 December 2005 05:45 am, martin f krafft wrote: >> also sprach Paul Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005.12.10.1358 +0100]: >> > So they can go join #ubuntu. Honestly, not that hard. Type it >> > with me now: >> > >> > /join #ubuntu >> >> Why should a Debian-Ubuntu comparison be any more on-topic on >> #ubuntu than it is on #debian? > > Ubuntu tries so hard to be Debian without actually contributing back to > Debian. Let them compare on their own channel. This says you are wrong: http://people.ubuntu.com/~scott/patches/ They are also available in a more accessible manner via the Debian PTS. And no, I'm not an Ubuntu fanboy, just a regular Debian developer. Regards, Roger - -- Roger Leigh Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/ Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://www.debian.org/ GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848. Please sign and encrypt your mail. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8+ <http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/> iD8DBQFDnXM5VcFcaSW/uEgRAobtAKCoisg7iJ6pGR70mH9UrxjuqqCcSQCcDUIN zt7UAqptdy23nWtkSwKFc/U= =EY8A -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Discussion of bug #311683, default kde install shows porn
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Sven Luther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I personally would feel strongly insulted if my children where to be subject > to such a thing, and i would be ashamed to propose debian/sarge to any folk i > know, so i vote for making this issue RC and fixing it, even if it means > delaying the sarge release by a day or so. I also feel this way. It's also inappropriate in a work setting. I wouldn't want this to happen on my boss' computer, for example! (Nor my own.) The simplest solution is to disable it by default; if folks enable it, that's their choice. Regards, Roger - -- Roger Leigh Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/ Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://www.debian.org/ GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848. Please sign and encrypt your mail. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8 <http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/> iD8DBQFCohBUVcFcaSW/uEgRAsi3AKCBCHdXr5yKdZlbzkUv+4hrM45odACgnvpX 9fdoNuiRdEHTyXfx++bjVlo= =MpKc -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#292330: project: UTF-8 as default
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Roger Leigh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > For the last few weeks, I've been working on just that. I'm slowly > writing a full framebuffer-based terminal emulator which will support > all the bi-di string specifications of ECMA-48, with full separation > between data and presentation components. It will use FreeType (or > maybe even Pango) for the font rendering, and so should provide the > same level of text rendering support (and quality) you get under X, > though I plan for it to be a bit faster than the X terminals by more > intelligent glyph caching. > > http://www.whinlatter.ukfsn.org/gtk/uterm-0.1.0.tar.bz2 I've now made the sources available via arch, if anyone's interested. To pull a copy from my public mirror: $ gpg --keyserver keyring.debian.org --recv-key 0x25BFB848 $ tla register-archive [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.whinlatter.ukfsn.org/arch/uterm $ mkdir -p ~/.arch-params/signing $ echo 'gpg --verify-files -' > ~/.arch-params/signing/[EMAIL PROTECTED] $ tla get -A [EMAIL PROTECTED] uterm--mainline--0.1 uterm If there's a demand for it, I'll look into setting up a project on Alioth. Regards, Roger - -- Roger Leigh Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/ Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://www.debian.org/ GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848. Please sign and encrypt your mail. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8 <http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/> iD8DBQFCBjSQVcFcaSW/uEgRAvdRAJ4h0cEjFtmJyZFdN4fDTXEYs7pnFACcD055 5ctEQAHCiZUQ7fMcBVyrAPg= =bgOc -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Bug#292330: project: UTF-8 as default
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marco d'Itri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >>I think the locales package is the place to start this. For etch, I >>would like the UTF-8 locales to be the default for all languages (with > This would be stupid, pointless and would piss off a lot of people. Please could you explain why? > But since your native language is english I suppose that it may be > hard to you to understand the reason for this. Please could you explain why English is different? When I made the transition myself, I had to recode a number of files to UTF-8 from the local encoding I was using previously (ISO-8859-1). How does this differ for other languages and encodings? > The quantity of untagged data (especially in emails and text files) is > so high that using UTF-8 as the default encoding is inappropriate in > many locales. Why? It's an undeniable fact that there is a cost associated with the migration, but to avoid the migration will not be of long term benefit to users of those locales. This will not affect existing installations, only new installs, and even then will only be a default; the "traditional" encodings will still be an option, and both encodings can be available together. emails without a specific charset which are not plain ASCII are most likely broken in the first place. It's not our place to work around that sort of breakage (it's only working by accident, and even then only if you have a particular locale codeset selected). Text files /are/ more of a problem. For these, we have iconv. Remember that ultimately the whole point of the migration is to get rid of this issue! > This obviously does not means that UTF-8 cannot be the appropriate > default encoding for other locales. This goes against the general long-term plans for GNU/Linux i18n/l10n, since UTF-8 is intended to unify the locale encodings, not to perpetuate their mutual incompatibilities. Regards, Roger - -- Roger Leigh Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/ Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://www.debian.org/ GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848. Please sign and encrypt your mail. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8 <http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/> iD8DBQFB/CdcVcFcaSW/uEgRAp1KAJ0W85MHz1mIMbk/LJV/KYA/ItBRigCgowGU lBdkCrTySNkPQIifimVAPmM= =4qan -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#292330: project: UTF-8 as default
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Steve Langasek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Wed, Jan 26, 2005 at 02:53:52PM +0000, Roger Leigh wrote: > >> > By this, I'm not talking about enforcing this character code on the >> > whole Debian system, but see to that: 1) Installing systems with >> > UTF-8 is easier, also with locales not strictly in need of >> > this. UTF-8 as default is not necessarily my ultimate goal (as the >> > title suggests), but having the option of using UTF-8 (or other >> > encodings) system-wide, no matter what languages are chosen. > >> I think the locales package is the place to start this. For etch, I >> would like the UTF-8 locales to be the default for all languages (with >> language-specific encodings being offered as alternatives). > > Then please begin coordinating with the respective language teams involved > with the debian installer, to ensure that we have a usable UTF-8 based > console environment for all languages. (Or hand us a d-i based graphical > installer sprung fully-formed from your forehead, whichever you find > easier.) I wasn't trying to cause offence with my comments. I fully appreciate this isn't a trivial task. For the last few weeks, I've been working on just that. I'm slowly writing a full framebuffer-based terminal emulator which will support all the bi-di string specifications of ECMA-48, with full separation between data and presentation components. It will use FreeType (or maybe even Pango) for the font rendering, and so should provide the same level of text rendering support (and quality) you get under X, though I plan for it to be a bit faster than the X terminals by more intelligent glyph caching. http://www.whinlatter.ukfsn.org/gtk/uterm-0.1.0.tar.bz2 There's not much to see yet. I've written some of the basic classes, plus most of the ECMA-35 and -43 support. Over the last week or so I've become a little side-tracked writing a code table editor, for charset/element/area mapping/designation/invokation, but I hope to have something usable within a few months. Once the basic table parser (input handling) and terminal classes are done, we can start on the framebuffer driver. (If anyone out there can provide any examples, either code or simple explanation, of how the ECMA-48 data component and presentation components normally interact, that would be of great benefit. This is required for bidirectional nested string handling, but it's not clear what the implications are for line wrapping and the mappings between the two components. I'm also looking to get hold of several ISO standards documents, but they are rather expensive. If anyone can help me get hold of any copies of these standards, that would also be of immense help.) Once I've got the basics written, I'll be making the arch repo available. If anyone's interested, feel free to get in touch. > There's more to providing a working UTF-8 capable second-stage > installer than just setting "UTF-8" in the locale name, and this is > a major issue that makes UTF-8 a non-viable default for sarge. I'm not suggesting this should be done for sarge, which is why I said I'd like it for etch. I'll be honest: I hadn't actually considered the implications for the installer; I was rather more interested in the working system after installation. >> > 2) See to that all Debian packages handles UTF-8 properly. > >> This is a policy issue. Not all packages need to handle it, so this >> should be a reccommendation rather than a requirement. For example, >> there are specialised packages that only work with certain specific >> encodings, and these should probably not be a priority to change. >> Certainly, all general-purpose packages should be UCS-aware, though. > > I hope you're just conflating UCS-2 with UTF-8 here. UCS-2 is a crap > charset, which there's no reason at all for most Unix programs to support. No. UCS == Universal Character Set, a.k.a. ISO-10646. I wasn't referring to any specific encoding thereof, hence the lack of any qualification. A package's UCS support might involve using wide characters and streams, particularly for more sophisticated processing and layout. In this case it's more than just "UTF-8", even if that's what is used for input and output. Regards, Roger - -- Roger Leigh Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/ Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://www.debian.org/ GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848. Please sign and encrypt your mail. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8 <http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/> iD8DBQFB+AM2VcFcaSW/uEgRAiHjAKCe7XdTeTLyC/FCIoBFDnZ/DCEJqgCdHYOc BUgTP63kDQ/K7lKUJkSbDls= =1w/v -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bug#292330: project: UTF-8 as default
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Harald Thingelstad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Most basic problems with use of UTF-8 (both in languages and > standard libraries) should have been fixed now, and as I see it, > it's time to head for easier integration of UTF-8, system-wide. Agreed. There are a few cases where UTF-8 support is not "quite there", for example on the console, where compose keys don't play nicely with UTF-8 mode. I don't think these few cases should prevent us making progress with the system overall, however. > By this, I'm not talking about enforcing this character code on the > whole Debian system, but see to that: 1) Installing systems with > UTF-8 is easier, also with locales not strictly in need of > this. UTF-8 as default is not necessarily my ultimate goal (as the > title suggests), but having the option of using UTF-8 (or other > encodings) system-wide, no matter what languages are chosen. I think the locales package is the place to start this. For etch, I would like the UTF-8 locales to be the default for all languages (with language-specific encodings being offered as alternatives). This is the opposite of the situation for Sarge, where language-specific encodings are the default, with UTF-8 as an alternative. This would have the effect of migrating all new installs to UTF-8, which still allowing the use of old encodings if required. I switched all my locales to UTF-8 only a year or so ago, and just iconv files as required. In some places, UTF-8 should be enforced, for example package control files and changelogs. > 2) See to that all Debian packages handles UTF-8 properly. This is a policy issue. Not all packages need to handle it, so this should be a reccommendation rather than a requirement. For example, there are specialised packages that only work with certain specific encodings, and these should probably not be a priority to change. Certainly, all general-purpose packages should be UCS-aware, though. Regards, Roger - -- Roger Leigh Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/ Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://www.debian.org/ GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848. Please sign and encrypt your mail. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8 <http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/> iD8DBQFB967nVcFcaSW/uEgRAtARAKCG3bedl9mOPixg5Mk/o+uVT2JfIQCg5F8W I4ZUrJTngUYZQCnu/1zQJyM= =I0/x -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Debian Free Documentation Guidelines was: License of oldGNUEmacsmanual
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Florian Weimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > * Gunnar Wolf: > >>> No, Debian distributes source and binaries on the same (virtual) >>> medium. This is different from handing over a physical object with >>> the "binary" and providing a URL for some resource on the Internet. >> >> So... If I hand over a Debian CD to someone, will I be breaching the >> law as I am giving him only the binaries, even if they have a very >> easy way of getting the sources? > > It's generally believed that it's sufficient to offer a source code CD > at the same time you give away the CD with binaries, as long as you > are prepared to fulfill this offer. If I give someone a printed GPL manual, I don't think that a request for a printed copy of the source is unreasonable, provided they pay the printing and distribution costs. Providing a URL in addition would be a more practical alternative for those who actually wanted to use the source ;-) (I did this last week actually. I posted someone a printed GPL manual accompanied by the source on a floppy.) Regards, Roger - -- Roger Leigh Printing on GNU/Linux? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/ Debian GNU/Linuxhttp://www.debian.org/ GPG Public Key: 0x25BFB848. Please sign and encrypt your mail. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.5.8 <http://mailcrypt.sourceforge.net/> iD8DBQFB3GguVcFcaSW/uEgRAoyQAJ9gZL+mkzlqwdtWWUxmP+Nu9tdN1wCbBpc1 8mViuu7/rShO2kW8SXFEx6k= =g3w+ -END PGP SIGNATURE-
