Re: Re: Would you agree - Debian is for the tech savvy
Hi Wouter, On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 4:28 AM, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > The best way to get anything done in Debian is to do it yourself. If you > want to encourage Debian to have Fluxbox as an easy-to-select option for > a desktop install, I encourage you to talk to the tasksel maintainers > and the debian-boot mailinglist to see what the needed bits would be, > and try to get them available. Great information, thank you! I did send an email to the debian-desktop list last month, but I'll try the debian-boot list and track down the tasksel maintainers. Steve
Re: Re: Would you agree - Debian is for the tech savvy
Hi Gunnar, On Fri, Feb 5, 2016 at 11:16 AM, Gunnar Wolf wrote: > I mean, who needs a desktop? A background? Overlapping windows? We the > *real* tech-savvy people only need a tiling window manager, such as > i3: > > https://screenshots.debian.net/package/i3 > http://i3wm.org/ > > I mean, just look at its manifesto! It has "tech savvy" written all > over it. Besides, it is more beautiful, in a simplicity sense. Small > is beautiful. > > Best of all, we don't need to make no stinkin' list of recommended > programs. Just install i3-wm, rxvt-unicode-256color, and... That's all > a tech-savvy user needs. Classic post! I totally support you if you want to get i3 on the task list in the Debian installer :-) Maybe you can add a spec here for an i3 Debian desktop: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktop although, I don't know if anyone will read it. It might be worth looking into if all the lightweight WM's share common extra packages...setting up X, sound, external media, etc. Personally, I'd like to see Debian broaden the list of WM's and would be just as happy be it Blackbox, i3, dwm or xmonad. > Oh, and don't get me started as to why rxvt-unicode-256color and not > xterm, lxterminal, roxterm, or (sigh) terminator, terminal.app, > gnome-terminal, or a long etcætera ad nauseam of lesser terminal > programs. Somehow I ended up using xterm. You can set an inner border and that one little feature hooked me, although I do wish they would add right click to paste...
Re: DE discussions
[Amruth Chand] > Hey, why ain't anyone bringing in dwm? Sure, no config is a bummer...But > just a few thousand lines of code sure makes it compile fast. Add dmenu > and powerline and it is pretty awesome! I like the whole suckless.org philosophy. I've never used dwm, but I know people love it and, according to wikipedia, was forked into awesome, xmonad and wmii.
Re: Re: Would you agree - Debian is for the tech savvy
Hi Wouter and thanks for the reply. On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 12:05 PM, Wouter Verhelst wrote: > It is fair to say that Debian supports: > - Non-technical desktop users who want to use one of: > - Gnome > - KDE > - Mate > - Cinnamon > - XFCE > - LXDE > - non-technical users who want to run a web, print, or SSH server; > - Technical users who want to use anything else > > since these are the "tasks" that are included in the installer, and > which produce a full selection of packages. > > FluxBox is not one of those. If you want to use a user interface that > isn't one of the standard environments, it's certainly possible to do so > within Debian, but it *will* indeed require a lot more effort. > > However, going from there to saying that "Debian is only for the tech > savvy sys admin type and the server market" is taking a bit of a leap > that I'm not sure is a fair one. We do support less tech savvy people, > just not with such highly customized environments. Very true, I agree with all of your points. Going back to my original purpose of posting this question, I wanted to do a sort of "sales pitch" to encourage Debian to offer Fluxbox as a task in the installer. I actually wrote up a spec which you can find here: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktop/FluxboxSpec I had just watched a video about Debian development and the speaker said the official motto might be the universal operating system, but the unofficial motto is the sys admin distro for sys admins. So, I thought this might be a good angle for my pitch...hey, Debian is for the technically savvy, so why not offer a technically savvy windows manager in addition to the others. As for the others (Gnome, KDE, etc), I might add that they are mostly just aping the Windows paradigm, but that might be my chauvinist Fluxbox attitude :-) As for what I think, having used Debian for many years, I think Debian is for the server market and also a major "feeder" for all the downstream distros. I think that's where Debian derives power and fills its niche very well. Thanks again for the reply. Also...let's get Fluxbox in the installer's tasks list! All those server admins deserve an easy install :-) Steve
Re: Re: Would you agree - Debian is for the tech savvy
Hi Paul and thanks for the reply. On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:43 PM, Paul Tagliamonte wrote: > Replying with my fluxbox hat on, and perhaps Debian too. > > Well, patches to add some defaults in an external package is super > welcome :) I did put up a Fluxbox spec off of DebianDesktop: https://wiki.debian.org/DebianDesktop/FluxboxSpec and sent an email to the debian-desktop list. For a few weeks, I was trying to work with some developers interested in Debian pure blends, but I have given up working with them. >> On the other hand, Fluxbox really is just a windows manager and it needs a >> ton of helper packages...nothing like Gnome or KDE. > > That's right. Maybe one loves it so much because it makes you work so hard :-)
would like to contribute python code - any good projects
Hello, not sure if this is the right list. I'd like to contribute a little Python coding...nothing huge, under 300 lines would be best. I could either work with an established project or rewrite something. One thing I recently discovered is python-debian. It has a nice routine to parse deb822 files: http://man7.org/linux/man-pages/man5/deb822.5.html another is running the deb tools commands and capturing the output...for instance, running "apt-cache pkgnames" and using the output in a script. Thanks for any ideas. Also, would I be better off posting to debian-devel?
Re: Re: Would you agree - Debian is for the tech savvy
[Yaroslav Halchenko] >> And, I am tech-savvy :-) > > Why wasn't it enough to run these two commands? > apt-get install xorg > apt-get install fluxbox > > The instructions on the wiki metion only this: > https://wiki.debian.org/FluxBox#Installation grrr Well, first off, I had to figure out the best display manager. Then, install Fluxbox and you got some ugly styling! Then, I had to figure out how to config all the gtk stuff and fonts, etc. Then, of course, no sound. And how about auto mounting external drives, etc, etc! Or even just artwork for grub and lightdm. Now I can install the whole thing in about 10 minutes, but it was quite a chore to do it the first time...coming from a system like Crunchbang which was configured with style and grace, I realized how much work when into that. On the other hand, Fluxbox really is just a windows manager and it needs a ton of helper packages...nothing like Gnome or KDE.
Re: Would you agree - Debian is for the tech savvy
Hi Yaroslav and thanks for the reply! On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 12:45 PM, Yaroslav Halchenko > in my perception it is as good characterization as > >Keyboard is for writing SPAM and FUD emails > > i.e. you can definitely use it for that purpose, but not exclusively or > might even that wouldn't be the primary focus of the subject in the > statement. OK...I understand the party line is "Universal Operating System" but I also know it took me 2-3 months to learn how to install Fluxbox on a base of Debian after the demise of Crunchbang! And, I am tech-savvy :-)
Re: Would you agree - Debian is for the tech savvy
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 6:20 AM, MENGUAL Jean-Philippe wrote: > The main difference between Debian and Ubuntu is that the installer is > less friendly-user, and the firmware are not loaded by default. But I > think Debian is really the Universal Operating System. And it's the > characterization I prefer: saying this, it shows how Debian is for > anybody. But if one is not a technician, it could need help, of course. > But 1st, it matches to the collaborative state of spirit in free > software. 2nd, if paid, it enables to finance free software dev. 3rd, > never forget that any OS, included proprietary ones, would be difficult > to install if not provided in computers. Installing an OS and having all > benefits is not easy for a non-technician, also with Ubuntu. I do respect all the qualities you mentioned about Debian's commitment to only free software, although it does make installing more difficult. It is also true that all distros can be made to look like one another with a little work. Thanks for the reply. It is good to keep in mind that Debian is used by a lot of non tech savvy people (who may or may not of installed their system).
Re: Would you agree - Debian is for the tech savvy
[Teemu Likonen] > You have the old stereotype of Debian. The reality is different: the > default Debian desktop install gives you a normal easy-to-use end-user > operating system and applications. This has been the case for a long > time but many people still maintain old stereotypes. > > Of course, Debian is for servers and technical people too. Thanks for the reply. I got the stereotype from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzjOtVL76C8 Open Source Developers' Conf 2014 @ 2:30 - Prime audience: official motto - "universal operating system" unofficial motto - "the sys admin's distribution for sys admins"
Re: Would you agree - Debian is for the tech savvy
> [Miles Fidelman] >> Used to be. These days, in the wake of systemd, at least this sys >> admin will never install it again. The reasons are technical. [Andrew McGlashan] > Yes, it is certainly limiting my view of Debian to be one that is now > broken and definitely not what Ian Murdock envisioned many years ago. I haven't researched the systemd issues but I should look into them. Thanks for the input, guys.
Would you agree - Debian is for the tech savvy
Hello, I'm trying to characterize Debian and have the following: Debian is for the tech savvy sys admin type and the server market Is this a good characterization or am I off base? Thanks
