Re: Let us start a ombudsman team (was Re: Social Committee proposal).
On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Amaya wrote: There's plenty of decent, trustworthy, honest, well socialized, tolerant, moderate, well behaved, experienced in volunteer-driven effort related problems, Developers and non-DDs. Definitely. You will always forget somebody. But because every interested person will probably not forget himself I hope people will show up voluntarily. [ ... this part was from formerly private mail ...] I normally do not hide my mails - so it is not really private if you feel a need to quote me anywhere - but before we will start yet another comittee thread on yet another list I would really like to know whether all these people are interested, willing and able to spend time in doing the social work you think they could do. I think this is the wrong approach. Sorry. This should be discussed in a ML so that all the interested people can proppose candidates that they like or trust and then the candidates themselves can publically speak out their minds for everyone to read. Transparency is key. So is not having yet another cabal ;) Sure. As I later wrote everything can be published. I just wanted to know whether these people in CC are really interested before CCing them in every mail and creating a de facto mailing list containing CCs. So yes, I stay away from private posting, but I leave out CCs as well. So can we take this on-list? If somebody asks me to repost my full mail to the list I'll immediately do so (or just quote me fully with comments. Kind regards and have a nice^Wprosperous weekend Heh, thx. Wish me luck with the flu I am going through though :) Well, here in Germany we currently have less flu (I'm responsible for the web pages of the influenza surveillance in Germany) but we had some trouble with Rotavirus that show up normally only for small children and elder people but this one also catches random people. Kind regards Andreas. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotavirus -- http://fam-tille.de -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Let us start a ombudsman team (was Re: Social Committee proposal).
On 1/26/07, Amaya <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi all! Andreas Tille wrote: > On Fri, 26 Jan 2007, Gustavo Franco wrote: > > Amaya Rodrigo > > Andreas Schuldei > > Andreas Tille > > Carlos Laviola > > Erinn Clark > > Felipe van de Wiel > > Guilherme Pastore > > Ian Murdock Removing Ian Murdock from my reply: a) he is no DD (yet!) (WTF and LOL) Sad but true, anyway he can take part of this project with an alioth account as i wrote. I've asked him to be involved in the social committee. The ombudsman project is just a step before that. That's up to Ian decide if he wants to get involved from the first day, join us some time after (into ombudsman or soc-ctte) or change his mind and don't join us. We need practical results to show the critics that we can do better with a ombudsman project and after that push it into our formal structure, we can call that the social committee. Anyway, i think we shouldn't care if we will be cited into the constitution in the near future or not. b) now seriously, I don't think he is in close contact with the project anymore. But I do agree that he is a "trustworthy and honest" candidate, and good at mediating. I would be glad to count with his experience, right now. Today, there's no technical challenge to start a new distribution, but there are giant social and marketing barriers. I'm not sure how but Ian solved the three problems (with help of course) ages ago and we are ruining this, IMHO. > > Josip Rodin > > Philip Hands > > Raphael Hertzog > > This is a really nice collection of people I regard trustworthy and > honest. Thanks, I feel honoured. I'd be happy to assist in this project (I assume we are talking about the social ctte here, right?). The plan is: First an ombudsman project in alioth, show some results, test the waters and then move on with the soc-ctte thing that would require 3:1 majority to change the constitution. There's also other people I'd like to see involved in (or around) a project like this: Enrico, Biella, Micah, Mako, Holger, Filippo, Bdale, Stephano Zachiroli, Alphascorpii, Vorlon, Steve, Lars, Marga, tbm... I am sure I am leaving many out! Which vorlon thread? :-P Well, i'll open a request on alioth to project setup but you're free to invite more people that are committed to the goals i wrote in the first message of this thread. There are no dictators so we can (and probably will) review the goals once we start discussing under the ombudsman mailing list. Don't forget what we learned every day with programming though: KISS. (...) > What I do not really understand here is in how far we could do more as > "People listed in ombudsman project of alioth" than we could now > without listed at a project page? Depends on wether there is a formal DPL delegation or not. Exactly, and AFAIK it was never tried before. Correct me if i'm wrong, but never a group of people involved with the project were committed to hear community (both users, contributors and developers) feedback and try to work on the problems or push people that has delegated power to do so. I can do that alone, but there's no minimal formal process or anyone tracking the list of pending issues anywhere. That's just a few of the ombudsman project points. Yes, we even can request formal DPL delegation for some issues as a group. (...) So can we take this on-list? I'm moving back to the list. > Kind regards and have a nice^Wprosperous weekend Heh, thx. Wish me luck with the flu I am going through though :) ;-) regards, -- stratus http://stratusandtheswirl.blogspot.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Let us start a ombudsman team (was Re: Social Committee proposal).
Gustavo Franco wrote: > If needed we can ask in special cases (eg.: sven's case) the DPL to > delegate to the group some powers as in 5.1.2 - Lend authority to > other Developers (Debian constitution). > > Amaya Rodrigo Thanks, I feel *very* honoured. > Andreas Schuldei > Andreas Tille > Carlos Laviola > Erinn Clark > Felipe van de Wiel > Guilherme Pastore > Ian Murdock > Josip Rodin > Philip Hands > Raphael Hertzog I agree that the people you proppose are good candiates, but there's also other people I'd like to see involved in (or around) a project like this: Anyone out there feels inlined towards this kind of effort? I feel tempted to help out with the list, but I fear leaving good people out of it. There's plenty of decent, trustworthy, honest, well socialized, tolerant, moderate, well behaved, experienced in volunteer-driven-efforts related problems, both DDs and non-DDs. > Keep in mind that you just need some free time, an alioth account, > understand our goals helping us to achieve them and some love for the > Debian project. And the thick skin ;) -- ยท''`. If I can't dance to it, it's not my revolution : :' :-- Emma Goldman `. `' Proudly running Debian GNU/Linux (unstable) `- www.amayita.com www.malapecora.com www.chicasduras.com -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Let us start a ombudsman team (was Re: Social Committee proposal).
On 1/25/07, Josip Rodin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi, This idea arose from a discussion on the -private mailing list. Andreas Tille, Gustavo Franco, Manoj Srivastava and Gunnar Wolf all commented fairly positively on a vague idea of having a social committee (soc-ctte), different from the technical committee (tech-ctte). I'm citing their names simply to avoid an issues with taking credit. (...) Hi list, First let me explain it has nothing with the suggestions i plan to follow to the technical committee, the content of James Troup message to -devel and what happened before that. I would like to invite some people directly[0] and any other person interested, please ask to join. I plan to start a ombudsman team (alioth), to do the following: - Quality Assurance (but not technically speaking) based on community feedback; - Ask for a pseudo-package in the BTS (ombudsman?) or use project and usertag the ombudsman related bugs. There users/contributors/developers can complain about a number of things; - These things would be listed in the ombudsman.debian.net or our page at alioth. We can discuss this initially here. My suggestions are: * Keep an eye on the mailing list to make sure the community is being heard and the pending non-technical issues can also be tracked in our bug tracking system; * Filter (using the BTS) and forward the feedback to the responsible teams; * Contact the tech-ctte when a technical issue isn't being handled properly by a developer or a team and the community is complaining; * Do informal polls (e.g: To see if the community cares about frequent team updates to d-d-a between releases); * Help with the -private partial archive opening to the public (when the time comes); - Test the waters for a consistent social committee proposal in the near future. If needed we can ask in special cases (eg.: sven's case) the DPL to delegate to the group some powers as in 5.1.2 - Lend authority to other Developers (Debian constitution). [0] = Amaya Rodrigo Andreas Schuldei Andreas Tille Carlos Laviola Erinn Clark Felipe van de Wiel Guilherme Pastore Ian Murdock Josip Rodin Philip Hands Raphael Hertzog Keep in mind that you just need some free time, an alioth account, understand our goals helping us to achieve them and some love for the Debian project. regards, -- stratus http://stratusandtheswirl.blogspot.com ps: I have just CCed invited people that i'm not sure if are subscribed to -project. -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]
