Re: [OFFTOPIC] On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...]
On Fri, Nov 03, 2023 at 12:57:39PM -0500, John Hasler wrote: > tomas writes: > > See my other reply. My whole point is about making lives of curious > > users easier by sticking to the terminology they'll find should they > > dare (yes,please!) to open that door to the cellar. > > The people at Xerox PARC and SRI who came up with the desktop metaphor > in the early years weren't thinking about personal computers. They were > working on office automation. OTOH, if you read Zuboff (or even Foucault), this is a classical pattern: you roll stuff out to some captive population first, before going into the wild :-) Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...]
On Fri, Nov 03, 2023 at 08:25:20AM -0500, John Hasler wrote: > tomas writes: > > Small anecdote: there was an old Linux distro (ISTR it was SuSE) where > > something below /etc/init.d (or was it /etc/rc.d? It's a long while > > ago) was a symlink to the parent directory, creating an infinite > > hierarchy (or a circular reference, depending on how you squint). > > On System III there was no restriction on hard links: you could create > an an arbitrarily complex cyclic graph. I know, I'm that old. In antediluvian Linux you could also hard link directories,but only root was allowed to. Most roors were smart enough not to do that :-) > Fortunately, I backed up the system before experimenting with this. The best way to learn, right? Cheers -- t signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: How to compare one folder to one directory
Greg writes: > The use of "directory" in the Unix sense predates graphical UI > development. > ... > ... The whole point of the desktop metaphor was to hide all of that from the user. I'm not defending it: just describing a bit of its history. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...]
tomas writes: > Small anecdote: there was an old Linux distro (ISTR it was SuSE) where > something below /etc/init.d (or was it /etc/rc.d? It's a long while > ago) was a symlink to the parent directory, creating an infinite > hierarchy (or a circular reference, depending on how you squint). On System III there was no restriction on hard links: you could create an an arbitrarily complex cyclic graph. Fortunately, I backed up the system before experimenting with this. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: [OFFTOPIC] On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...]
tomas writes: > See my other reply. My whole point is about making lives of curious > users easier by sticking to the terminology they'll find should they > dare (yes,please!) to open that door to the cellar. The people at Xerox PARC and SRI who came up with the desktop metaphor in the early years weren't thinking about personal computers. They were working on office automation. -- John Hasler j...@sugarbit.com Elmwood, WI USA
Re: sound cards locked, No Host
good point but no success. used top to find blender and kill. no improvement On 11/6/23 10:53, Marco M. wrote: Am 06.11.2023 um 10:26:53 Uhr schrieb Thomas George: alsactl says sound cards locked. There is a lock directory in var/lib/alsa/asound-state mpv song.ogg fails with message No Host There may be solutions in the debian-user archives. I am slowly reading these in search of a solution. Any help? Is any application using alsa? What about PulseAudio or Pipewire?
Re: systemd service oddness with openvpn
On 7/11/23 12:41, Richard Hector wrote: Hi all, I have a machine that runs as an openvpn server. It works fine; the VPN stays up. However, after running for a while, I get these repeatedly in syslog: I should also have mentioned - this is debian bookworm (12.2) Richard
local (lan) mirror - release not supported error
For several years I have been running approx on a machine in the lan, using it to install and update Debian for myself and friends. I have installed several releases, the last being release 12.2 on this machine. Because approx "just runs" trouble-free, I have forgotten the details of the installation. But now, trying to install "debian-12.2.0-i386-netinst.iso", I get the error "release not supported" error when I attempt to specify the local mirror (192.168.1.40:). RLH
systemd service oddness with openvpn
Hi all, I have a machine that runs as an openvpn server. It works fine; the VPN stays up. However, after running for a while, I get these repeatedly in syslog: Nov 07 12:17:24 ovpn2 openvpn[213741]: Options error: In [CMD-LINE]:1: Error opening configuration file: opvn2.conf Nov 07 12:17:24 ovpn2 openvpn[213741]: Use --help for more information. Nov 07 12:17:24 ovpn2 systemd[1]: openvpn-server@opvn2.service: Main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE Nov 07 12:17:24 ovpn2 systemd[1]: openvpn-server@opvn2.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'. Nov 07 12:17:24 ovpn2 systemd[1]: Failed to start openvpn-server@opvn2.service - OpenVPN service for opvn2. Nov 07 12:17:29 ovpn2 openvpn[213770]: Options error: In [CMD-LINE]:1: Error opening configuration file: opvn2.conf Nov 07 12:17:29 ovpn2 openvpn[213770]: Use --help for more information. Nov 07 12:17:29 ovpn2 systemd[1]: openvpn-server@opvn2.service: Main process exited, code=exited, status=1/FAILURE Nov 07 12:17:29 ovpn2 systemd[1]: openvpn-server@opvn2.service: Failed with result 'exit-code'. Nov 07 12:17:29 ovpn2 systemd[1]: Failed to start openvpn-server@opvn2.service - OpenVPN service for opvn2. This is the openvpn-server@.service: [Unit] Description=OpenVPN service for %I After=network-online.target Wants=network-online.target Documentation=man:openvpn(8) Documentation=https://community.openvpn.net/openvpn/wiki/Openvpn24ManPage Documentation=https://community.openvpn.net/openvpn/wiki/HOWTO [Service] Type=notify PrivateTmp=true WorkingDirectory=/etc/openvpn/server ExecStart=/usr/sbin/openvpn --status %t/openvpn-server/status-%i.log --status-version 2 --suppress-timestamps --config %i.conf CapabilityBoundingSet=CAP_IPC_LOCK CAP_NET_ADMIN CAP_NET_BIND_SERVICE CAP_NET_RAW CAP_SETGID CAP_SETUID CAP_SETPCAP CAP_SYS_CHROOT CAP_DAC_OVERRIDE CAP_AUDIT_WRITE LimitNPROC=10 DeviceAllow=/dev/null rw DeviceAllow=/dev/net/tun rw ProtectSystem=true ProtectHome=true KillMode=process RestartSec=5s Restart=on-failure [Install] WantedBy=multi-user.target And this is my override.conf: [Service] ExecStart= ExecStart=/usr/sbin/openvpn --status %t/openvpn-server/status-%i.log --status-version 2 --config %i.conf (because I want timestamps) As I say, the VPN is functioning, and systemctl status shows it's running. Why would it firstly think it needs starting, and secondly fail to do so? The config file /etc/openvpn/server/ovpn2.conf file which it "fails to open" hasn't gone away ... Any tips? Note the machine is quite low powered; it's an old HP thin client. But this is all it does, and it seems to perform adequately. Thanks, Richard
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...]
On 2023-11-06, Nicolas George wrote: > Loris Bennett (12023-11-06): >> I beg to differ. I think you are confusing the precise definition of >> something with the label used to refer to it. When the transistor was >> invented, so was a new word to describe it. When this particular >> concept of how to organise data on a computer, about which we are >> talking, was invented, the existing analog term 'directory' was chosen >> (and not, say, 'catalogue'). Because the term already existed, using it >> to refer to something else is by definition metaphorical. > > No, that is not what “metaphorical means”. Anyway, I am not interested > in splitting hair about stylistic devices. > You're not interested in splitting hairs? C'est l'hôpital qui se fout de la charité !
Re: How to use dmsetuup?
On 11/6/23 10:48, Franco Martelli wrote: On 03/11/23 at 17:27, gene heskett wrote: Greetings all; As usual, the man page may as well be written in swahili. The NDE syndrome, meaning No D-d Examples. I have those 2 2T SSD's with a gpt partition table on both, allocated as sdc1 and sdk1, formatted to ext4, named and labeled as lvm1 and lvm2. Temp mounted as sdc1 and sdk1 to /mnt/lvm1 and /mnt/lvm2 How do I create a single managed volume of labels lvm1 and lvm2 of these to make a single volume that I can then rsynch /home to it, then switch fstab to mount it as /home on a reboot? How about to use debian-installer: burn the dvd image of Bookworm 12.2, put into the DVD drive then reboot the system. You have to choose "Expert Install" and it's all menu driven from RAID device creation to LVM logical device and logical volume names. I don't know if you can do that from debian-installer rescue disk mode. HTH kinds regards All entirely possible, unless you forget to unplug everything usb that isn't keyboard or mouse. BTDT, 22+ times. Cheers, Gene Heskett. -- "There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order." -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940) If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable. - Louis D. Brandeis
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...]
Loris Bennett (12023-11-06): > I beg to differ. I think you are confusing the precise definition of > something with the label used to refer to it. When the transistor was > invented, so was a new word to describe it. When this particular > concept of how to organise data on a computer, about which we are > talking, was invented, the existing analog term 'directory' was chosen > (and not, say, 'catalogue'). Because the term already existed, using it > to refer to something else is by definition metaphorical. No, that is not what “metaphorical means”. Anyway, I am not interested in splitting hair about stylistic devices. -- Nicolas George
Re: On folders vs. directories and history [was: how to compare...]
Nicolas George writes: >> Surely 'directory' is also just a more or >> less apt metaphor > > You missed the point: directory is not a metaphor at all, it is a > precise term for what is actually being talked about. I beg to differ. I think you are confusing the precise definition of something with the label used to refer to it. When the transistor was invented, so was a new word to describe it. When this particular concept of how to organise data on a computer, about which we are talking, was invented, the existing analog term 'directory' was chosen (and not, say, 'catalogue'). Because the term already existed, using it to refer to something else is by definition metaphorical. >> Regarding Tomas' assertion, I'm not sure I buy into the argument >> regarding dumbing-down. I am presume it does go on, but I don't really >> think that one is stepping on to Big Tech's slippery slope to stupidity >> by calling a 'directory' a 'folder' any more one would be by calling a >> pointing device a 'mouse' despite its rather limited resemblance to the >> actual rodent. > > We are not saying that using the word is by itself dumbing down. But the > fact is that the people who are dumbing down are the same as people who > are using the metaphoric word instead of the precise one. As I said, I think you are creating a false dichotomy between 'metaphorical' and 'precise'. Possible antonyms would be 'literal' and 'imprecise', respectively. Regarding usage, I think that the horse has bolted. The people using 'folder' are probably in the majority now, in particular if we think of all those who never end up on the command line. So if someone wants to sell me snake oil, he or she will definitely need some more dazzling jargon than 'folder'. -- This signature is currently under constuction.
Re: sound cards locked, No Host
Am 06.11.2023 um 10:26:53 Uhr schrieb Thomas George: > alsactl says sound cards locked. There is a lock directory in > var/lib/alsa/asound-state > > mpv song.ogg fails with message No Host > > There may be solutions in the debian-user archives. I am slowly > reading these in search of a solution. > > Any help? Is any application using alsa? What about PulseAudio or Pipewire?
Re: How to use dmsetuup?
On 03/11/23 at 17:27, gene heskett wrote: Greetings all; As usual, the man page may as well be written in swahili. The NDE syndrome, meaning No D-d Examples. I have those 2 2T SSD's with a gpt partition table on both, allocated as sdc1 and sdk1, formatted to ext4, named and labeled as lvm1 and lvm2. Temp mounted as sdc1 and sdk1 to /mnt/lvm1 and /mnt/lvm2 How do I create a single managed volume of labels lvm1 and lvm2 of these to make a single volume that I can then rsynch /home to it, then switch fstab to mount it as /home on a reboot? How about to use debian-installer: burn the dvd image of Bookworm 12.2, put into the DVD drive then reboot the system. You have to choose "Expert Install" and it's all menu driven from RAID device creation to LVM logical device and logical volume names. I don't know if you can do that from debian-installer rescue disk mode. HTH kinds regards -- Franco Martelli
sound cards locked, No Host
Just upgraded to Bookworm no sound. alsactl says sound cards locked. There is a lock directory in var/lib/alsa/asound-state mpv song.ogg fails with message No Host There may be solutions in the debian-user archives. I am slowly reading these in search of a solution. Any help? Tom George
Re: How to get VMware Player going on Debian 12 bookworm
On 2023-11-06 at 07:50, Marco M. wrote: > Am 06.11.2023 um 06:52:39 Uhr schrieb Timothy M Butterworth: > >> VirtualBox is not available in any Debian Repo. > > It is available in sid, but not in stable. And the reason it isn't available in testing is that there's no viable way to provide security support for it in stable, and testing is supposed to only contain things that are candidates to become part of the next stable release. Once upon a time it was made available in each new testing and then removed before the stable release (and that's how I was running it, for a fairly long while), but I remember a discussion which led to the decision that that was not an appropriate practice given relevant policy. I don't remember with confidence offhand exactly *why* it was decided that it isn't viable to provide security support for VirtualBox in stable. I remember it had something to do with how upstream provides patches for security fixes, but I don't remember whether it was "upstream doesn't provide split-out patches per fix, but only one massive patch when they make a new VirtualBox release" or something more to the effect of "the license upstream releases its code under does not permit taking changes out separately like that". -- The Wanderer The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: How to get VMware Player going on Debian 12 bookworm
Am 06.11.2023 um 06:52:39 Uhr schrieb Timothy M Butterworth: > VirtualBox is not available in any Debian Repo. It is available in sid, but not in stable.
Debian 12 Gnome - No notification for available updates
Hi Debian users, I have a computer running Gnome 43.6 that does not show notification when updates are available. It was working a few months ago, but can not tell when it stops working. Questions: - How can I bring back available update notifications? - Do you think it deserves a bug report on Debian bugtracker or upstream? Some details: - The computer was installed with Debian 11 and manually upgraded to Debian 12, and currently runs Gnome Software 43.5-1~deb12u1. - I confirm that /usr/bin/gnome-software --gapplication-service is started automatically when I open a session, which in turn runs PacakeKit to get update information (as seen with pkmon). - apt list --upgradable lists many available updates. - I do not use a metered connection. - I do not have any fancy settings in dconf (I only disable automatic download): $ dconf dump /org/gnome/software/ [/] check-timestamp=int64 1691236134 => Sat Aug 5 13:48:54 CEST 2023 download-updates=false first-run=false install-timestamp=int64 1661718901 => Sun Aug 28 22:35:01 CEST 2022 online-updates-timestamp=int64 1675285379 => Wed Feb 1 22:02:59 CET 2023 update-notification-timestamp=int64 1698304770 => Thu Oct 26 09:19:30 CEST 2023 - When I start Gnome Software, it displays the number of updates on the top. - Notifications are enabled: $ dconf dump /org/gnome/desktop/notifications/application/org-gnome-software/ [/] application-id='org.gnome.Software.desktop' enable=true - I have just created a new user on the machine, member of the sudo group, but it does not get any notification either (but updates are automatically downloaded) Regards, Yvan OpenPGP_signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: How to get VMware Player going on Debian 12 bookworm
On Mon, Nov 6, 2023 at 4:16 AM జిందం వాఐి wrote: > > PPS: If VMware isn't a good choice, > > would there be a better VM supervisor > > I could use? If so, can you point me > > to a set of instructions for it? > > * these are MY personal opnions from > experience [ almost decade ago ] > [ may not be correct or relevant ] > * my laptop with amd processor [ low > end model ] > * installation of qemu was impossible > because virtualization [ svm ] is not > enabled in BIOS, only high end models > have it enabled [ blame on bios vendors > for poor implementation, eventhough > it is enabled by amd ] [ kernel 6.7 > commit [ 1 ] fixed incorrect data ] > > * so do you have amd or intel? > * how much ram [ is relevant due to > recent security incidents affecting > intel [ little bit more ], amd > > * virtualbox [ 2 ], but it is available > in unstable? [ 3 ] why? > VirtualBox is not available in any Debian Repo. It requires a proprietary compiler to build the VirtualBox Bios. Also there are licensing issues. Oracle has a Debian stable build and repo for VirtualBox which I personally use which works well. I am planning on moving to KVM/QEMU personally. I like VirtualBox but I want a Free Software Open Source solution. > * it was working flawlessly > * even if you have intel, installation > of debian [ minimal installation ] > + twm is more than enough ;) > > [ 1 ] > > https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20231027170151.GOZTvs%2FwR%2F47ib4+qe@fat_crate.local/T/#u > [ 2 ] https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/End-user_documentation > [ 3 ] https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/virtualbox > > -- > regards, > జిందం వాఐి [ jindam, vani ] > [matrix]_ @jindam.vani:oikei.net > > -- ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org/ ⠈⠳⣄⠀⠀
Re: Documentation for KVM/QEMU?
Maybe the op wqould like to test aqemu, which is a graphical frontend for qemu and it might be easier for him to configure. In the comparision of aqemu (with using kvm) and VirtualkBox and Virt-Manager my feeling was, Virtualbox the slowest and both Aqemu and VirtManager faster. The latter two are were looking both even fast. However, virt-manger IMHO still is not very user friendly, especially for beginners, and also its documentation is not much at the moment. But please be respectfull (or is considerately the correct idiom?): virtmanager is rather new and has not many people involved, so it might become better in the future. Virt-manager has great potential. Best regards Hans
Re: Documentation for KVM/QEMU?
2023-11-06 12:45 GMT+05:00, Michael Kjörling <2695bd53d...@ewoof.net>: > The three biggest differences I have run across (I used VirtualBox > before): > > 1. Storage pools for disk images. With VirtualBox, you can put a disk > image file anywhere. With KVM, they go into one of a defined set of > pools, which in turn map to file system directories. Depending on what > kind of setup you prefer, this can be anything from actually > beneficial through a non-issue to a nuisance. I run qemu binary with parameters and place disk image in any place and can use any physical disk as qemu image, if need. In old scripts it was something like: qemu-system-x86_64 -m 1024M -hda /path/disk.img -cdrom /another/path/image.iso -boot cdrom So, it is not qemu, only your gui wrapper/interface limitation. > 3. KVM virtualized NAT networking doesn't play nice with nftables on > the host with a restrictive policy. Took me a while to find a solution > but I eventually came up with this, which has worked reliably for me: > https://michael.kjorling.se/blog/2022/linux-kvm-host-nftables-guest-networking/ this is not qemu/kvm thing, only libvirt, which is not part of qemu, but only wrapper on it. Sometimes useful, good for beginning, bad, if you need something non-standard. qemu as virtual machine does not create/use firewall rules at all and can use user mode net, which work without firewall rules — see man qemu for -net parameter (use -net nic -net user if you need only output network requests). -- Stanislav
Re: Installing on Radxa Rock Pi 4B using SD-card-images
On 6/11/23 15:22, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote: For future readers of the list: I had to search for the meaning of an NPU and found this reference helpful - https://www.backblaze.com/blog/ai-101-gpu-vs-tpu-vs-npu/ - no further opinions as to the company behind it. NPU - Neural Processing Unit - chip designed for AI use. NPU in this context is not actually the Big G. The leader on small system NPU is actually Nvidia and their Jetson product et al. In my case Rockchip has added a processor they style an NPU to their newer SOC products. What that boils down to is one or more units that can perform very fast vector arithmetic operations at various precisions. These can be used to process data in neural networks as well as conventional signal/image processing. In my case I have a Rockchip RK3588 that can do 6 TOPS (Tera operations per second) using three independent NPU cores. You can use these to do neural network work or anything else that vector arithmetic is helpful with such as image processing or signal processing. These NPU units will become more and more common and their use will be adapted by many current applications to speed operations for signal and image processing. However, at this stage, though they are also be able to do Neural Network processing, the really intense NN applications such as Large Language Models (e.g. GPT) are probably out of useful reach. That stuff is done in the cloud with dedicated NN processors (which may be Nvidia based?)
Re: How to get VMware Player going on Debian 12 bookworm
On Sun, Nov 5, 2023, at 7:04 PM, జిందం వాఐి wrote: >> PPS: If VMware isn't a good choice, >> would there be a better VM supervisor >> I could use? If so, can you point me >> to a set of instructions for it? > > * these are MY personal opnions from > experience [ almost decade ago ] > [ may not be correct or relevant ] > * my laptop with amd processor [ low > end model ] > * installation of qemu was impossible > because virtualization [ svm ] is not > enabled in BIOS, only high end models > have it enabled [ blame on bios vendors > for poor implementation, eventhough > it is enabled by amd ] [ kernel 6.7 > commit [ 1 ] fixed incorrect data ] > > * so do you have amd or intel? > * how much ram [ is relevant due to > recent security incidents affecting > intel [ little bit more ], amd > > * virtualbox [ 2 ], but it is available > in unstable? [ 3 ] why? > * it was working flawlessly > * even if you have intel, installation > of debian [ minimal installation ] > + twm is more than enough ;) > > [ 1 ] > https://lore.kernel.org/lkml/20231027170151.GOZTvs%2FwR%2F47ib4+qe@fat_crate.local/T/#u > [ 2 ] https://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/End-user_documentation > [ 3 ] https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/virtualbox > > -- > regards, > జిందం వాఐి [ jindam, vani ] > [matrix]_ @jindam.vani:oikei.net Thanks for the very useful information! If I understand you correctly: 1) The box I'm thinking of using has a CPU that is an Intel core i5-7500. It has 4 cores running at 3.4GHz, and It has 24GB RAM. The OS is Debian 6.1.55-1 (2023-09-29) -- stable/bookworm. 2) The Virtualbox documentation (but not virtualbox itself?) is available in Debian Sid (but only Sid?) 3) Does the documentation (either from Virtualbox.org, or from Debian Sid) cover installation and use of Virtualbox under Debian? 4) How do I find out if it has virtualization/svm enabled in the firmware? If it does, would I be better off with KVM/QEMU, or Virtualbox? Thanks very much! Rick
Re: how to find libreoffice is built for architecture
Am 06.11.2023 um 13:51:47 Uhr schrieb జిందం వాఐి: > > (please tell us the OS > > you are using). > * debian bookworm > > * not interested with backports > [ 7.5.6 ] or stable [ 7.4.7 ] Then you don't need to care about sid, unstable nor experimental, only about stable/bookworm.
Re: how to find libreoffice is built for architecture
(please tell us the OS you are using). * debian bookworm * not interested with backports [ 7.5.6 ] or stable [ 7.4.7 ] -- regards, జిందం వాఐి [ jindam, vani ] [matrix]_ @jindam.vani:oikei.net
Re: Debian for Celeron
On Sun, Nov 05, 2023 at 08:36:43AM +0100, Marco M. wrote: Am 05.11.2023 um 07:30:51 Uhr schrieb Russell L. Harris: This kernel requires an x86-64 CPU, but only detected an i686 CPU. Unable to boot - please use a kernel appropriate for you CPU. You need the i386 image for your CPU. Use that link to download it with BitTorrent: https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/i386/bt-dvd/debian-12.2.0-i386-DVD-1.iso.torrent Marco, I thank you for the link. I never had used BitTorrent, but I found and installed "biglybt" and soon had the iso image. I lost several hours messing around with getting the iso image onto a USB stick. And about five minutes ago, my old Celeron booted into Debian 12. I plan to use the machine either for "pi-hole" or for my weather station running "weewx". Again, thanks. RLH
