Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Peter Jones]

On 03/29/2012 10:15 PM, Conan Kudo (ニール・ゴンパ) wrote:

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 7:18 PM, Chris Lumens mailto:clum...@redhat.com>> wrote:

 > How is that possible to implement with a:
 > 1. Show GUI, write kickstart.
 > 2. Process kickstart.
 > design?

We're not literally going to have one program that you use to construct
a kickstart file, write the file out, and then spawn a separate program
do to the processing of.  We are using kickstart as the data store
internally (via pykickstart) and having one program operate on it.  The
only writing will be towards the end of installation, where we spit out
/root/anaconda-ks.cfg.

A lot of these tasks like figuring out authentication information and
adding extra users can be prompted for while filesystems are being
created, then actually take effect and augment the ksdata after packages
are laid down.  They will be reflected in the final anaconda-ks.cfg.
Some other tasks may not map to existing kickstart at all (yet).

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If we go for doing something like that, is there any reason to keep firstboot
around? Couldn't we stuff the actions done in firstboot into anaconda with this
newer asynch design?


Well, there are some reasons on each side there, and it certainly merits further
discussion.

Personally, I've got some skepticism about running firstboot-style plugins in
the installer. For those that need that (and they are out there), it's a whole
lot easier to put things like that in the packageset and have them run at 
firstboot than to get them into the running install image. But if we decide it's

worth it, that's probably a problem we could engineer around, too.

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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[ニール・ゴンパ]

On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 7:18 PM, Chris Lumens  wrote:

> > How is that possible to implement with a:
> > 1. Show GUI, write kickstart.
> > 2. Process kickstart.
> > design?
>
> We're not literally going to have one program that you use to construct
> a kickstart file, write the file out, and then spawn a separate program
> do to the processing of.  We are using kickstart as the data store
> internally (via pykickstart) and having one program operate on it.  The
> only writing will be towards the end of installation, where we spit out
> /root/anaconda-ks.cfg.
>
> A lot of these tasks like figuring out authentication information and
> adding extra users can be prompted for while filesystems are being
> created, then actually take effect and augment the ksdata after packages
> are laid down.  They will be reflected in the final anaconda-ks.cfg.
> Some other tasks may not map to existing kickstart at all (yet).
>
> - Chris
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>

If we go for doing something like that, is there any reason to keep
firstboot around? Couldn't we stuff the actions done in firstboot into
anaconda with this newer asynch design?
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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Chris Lumens]

> How is that possible to implement with a:
> 1. Show GUI, write kickstart.
> 2. Process kickstart.
> design?

We're not literally going to have one program that you use to construct
a kickstart file, write the file out, and then spawn a separate program
do to the processing of.  We are using kickstart as the data store
internally (via pykickstart) and having one program operate on it.  The
only writing will be towards the end of installation, where we spit out
/root/anaconda-ks.cfg.

A lot of these tasks like figuring out authentication information and
adding extra users can be prompted for while filesystems are being
created, then actually take effect and augment the ksdata after packages
are laid down.  They will be reflected in the final anaconda-ks.cfg.
Some other tasks may not map to existing kickstart at all (yet).

- Chris
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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Kevin Kofler]

Chris Lumens wrote:

>> Just out of curiosity: Your description makes me assume that the
>> installer in the future still don't do things like partitioning,
>> formating or installing a basic set of packages in the background while
>> the user (which has a high latency/response time) is asked questions
>> about the root password to use, users accounts to create or which
>> timezone the system is in?
>> 
>> Just wondering, because the Ubuntu installer does things like that,
>> which makes the installation a little bit quicker.
> 
> This is the direction we are heading, though it's uncertain yet whether
> this part will be in F18 or will have to get put off until F19.  Just
> getting a new, relatively bug-free UI in is a lot of work for a single
> release.

How is that possible to implement with a:
1. Show GUI, write kickstart.
2. Process kickstart.
design?

Kevin Kofler

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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Chris Lumens]

> That's my understanding as well so it's not removing functionality but
> rather the underlying mechanism and implementation of them. This is good
> because it will allow a consistent outcome whether using the GUI, a
> kickstart file or something else like media and appliance creator and
> likely considerable simplification of the code too.

I don't think we've removed any functionality in this new UI.  And yeah,
it will certainly allow for more consistency and much simpler code.
We're eliminating a whole lot of old, crufty, hand-written UIs here.

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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Chris Lumens]

> Now my understanding of that doesn't include anything about removing
> custom partitioning. It's all about splitting up the functionality of
> anaconda into two distinct parts - the GUI configuration part, which I
> would expect still to contain custom partitioning, and a back-end that
> implements the configuration, where the configuration is passed to it
> in the form of a kickstart file (either the output of the GUI part, or
> a kickstart file prepared earlier by the user).

This is basically correct, though I doubt the kickstart-based action is
going to be all that noticable to the user.  From an implementation
perspective, it certainly is very appealing though.

> My understanding is based entirely on Adam's description since I'm not
> involved in anaconda development, but it strikes me as being a good
> thing as it would split one large process into two, presumably smaller
> ones, which would help solve the problem of running anaconda on
> machines with less memory.

The memory consumption was largely based upon merging the initrd and the
stage2 image into one very large initrd that had to be in memory.
However, we've made additional changes that split it back up (though,
not in an annoying way like it used to be) that means much less stuff
needs to be kept in memory.

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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Chris Lumens]

> Just out of curiosity: Your description makes me assume that the
> installer in the future still don't do things like partitioning,
> formating or installing a basic set of packages in the background while
> the user (which has a high latency/response time) is asked questions
> about the root password to use, users accounts to create or which
> timezone the system is in?
> 
> Just wondering, because the Ubuntu installer does things like that,
> which makes the installation a little bit quicker.

This is the direction we are heading, though it's uncertain yet whether
this part will be in F18 or will have to get put off until F19.  Just
getting a new, relatively bug-free UI in is a lot of work for a single
release.

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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Reindl Harald]

Am 29.03.2012 09:00, schrieb Paul Howarth:
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:16:25 +0200
> Reindl Harald  wrote:
>> maybe the tone was minimal rude because i do absolutely
>> not understand why anyone can have the idea "hey let us
>> remove the whole custom partitioning and replace with
>> kickstart only" to solve problems with it
> 
> That's not what I understood from Adam's description, which was:
> 
>> It's worth bearing in mind there's a giant anaconda UI rewrite still
>> pending, which entirely redesigns the storage configuration GUI. One
>> of the other major changes is that it makes all installations
>> kickstart-driven. The GUI will just produce a kickstart file, which
>> anaconda will then process to perform the actual install.

see the mail below

yes, i confused Adam and Richard because both @redhat.com
and both spoke about Kickstart, and this message
below is as clear as it can be and matches 100% to my
answer - my reply to the wrong person was the result
of reply not instantly and try to wait what happens

 Original-Nachricht 
Betreff: Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2
Datum: Sun, 25 Mar 2012 09:32:02 +0100
Von: Richard W.M. Jones 
Antwort an: Development discussions related to Fedora 

An: Development discussions related to Fedora 

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:08:42PM -0400, Gerry Reno wrote:
> You can do all of these things manually outside of anaconda and then
> just tell anaconda to use existing setup.  But that is not very user
> friendly.

I had similar problems trying to set up a basic RAID 1 (not /boot)
guest.  I found Anaconda is full of bugs and wierdness once you stray
into the custom partitioning code.

Apparently kickstart is a better way to do this.

Perhaps, like Ubuntu's installer, the graphical part of Anaconda
should concentrate on doing the simple stuff, and leave everything
else to kickstart non-graphical installations.



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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Peter Robinson]

On Mar 29, 2012 8:00 AM, "Paul Howarth"  wrote:
>
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:16:25 +0200
> Reindl Harald  wrote:
> > maybe the tone was minimal rude because i do absolutely
> > not understand why anyone can have the idea "hey let us
> > remove the whole custom partitioning and replace with
> > kickstart only" to solve problems with it
>
> That's not what I understood from Adam's description, which was:
>
> > It's worth bearing in mind there's a giant anaconda UI rewrite still
> > pending, which entirely redesigns the storage configuration GUI. One
> > of the other major changes is that it makes all installations
> > kickstart-driven. The GUI will just produce a kickstart file, which
> > anaconda will then process to perform the actual install.
>
> Now my understanding of that doesn't include anything about removing
> custom partitioning. It's all about splitting up the functionality of
> anaconda into two distinct parts - the GUI configuration part, which I
> would expect still to contain custom partitioning, and a back-end that
> implements the configuration, where the configuration is passed to it
> in the form of a kickstart file (either the output of the GUI part, or
> a kickstart file prepared earlier by the user).
>
> My understanding is based entirely on Adam's description since I'm not
> involved in anaconda development, but it strikes me as being a good
> thing as it would split one large process into two, presumably smaller
> ones, which would help solve the problem of running anaconda on
> machines with less memory.

That's my understanding as well so it's not removing functionality but
rather the underlying mechanism and implementation of them. This is good
because it will allow a consistent outcome whether using the GUI, a
kickstart file or something else like media and appliance creator and
likely considerable simplification of the code too.

Peter

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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Paul Howarth]

On Wed, 28 Mar 2012 22:16:25 +0200
Reindl Harald  wrote:
> maybe the tone was minimal rude because i do absolutely
> not understand why anyone can have the idea "hey let us
> remove the whole custom partitioning and replace with
> kickstart only" to solve problems with it

That's not what I understood from Adam's description, which was:

> It's worth bearing in mind there's a giant anaconda UI rewrite still
> pending, which entirely redesigns the storage configuration GUI. One
> of the other major changes is that it makes all installations
> kickstart-driven. The GUI will just produce a kickstart file, which
> anaconda will then process to perform the actual install.

Now my understanding of that doesn't include anything about removing
custom partitioning. It's all about splitting up the functionality of
anaconda into two distinct parts - the GUI configuration part, which I
would expect still to contain custom partitioning, and a back-end that
implements the configuration, where the configuration is passed to it
in the form of a kickstart file (either the output of the GUI part, or
a kickstart file prepared earlier by the user).

My understanding is based entirely on Adam's description since I'm not
involved in anaconda development, but it strikes me as being a good
thing as it would split one large process into two, presumably smaller
ones, which would help solve the problem of running anaconda on
machines with less memory.

Paul.
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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 03/29/2012 04:39 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Jared K. Smith wrote:
>> Because my reply wasn't about the content of your message.  My reply
>> was all about the *tone* of your email.  I know that language barrier
>> is part of the problem here, but the tone of your email messages often
>> comes across as demanding and condescending.
> 
> Harald is simply frustrated by Fedora changes which in his view are clearly 
> not for the better, and I can fully understand that, given that I find 
> myself agreeing with him every so often. Something that looks like an 
> improvement to a developer might actually be a regression in users' view.
> 
> The tone of his messages is purely and simply a result of the frustration.

I am not surprised by your excuse but I don't buy that at all.  He comes
off as rude in other mailing lists as well including the users list
where he talks down on anyone who does things in a different way.  If
someone is so frustrated by Fedora that they feel compelled to behave
this way, then they should pick something more suitable for them.

Rahul


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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Kevin Kofler]

Jared K. Smith wrote:
> Because my reply wasn't about the content of your message.  My reply
> was all about the *tone* of your email.  I know that language barrier
> is part of the problem here, but the tone of your email messages often
> comes across as demanding and condescending.

Harald is simply frustrated by Fedora changes which in his view are clearly 
not for the better, and I can fully understand that, given that I find 
myself agreeing with him every so often. Something that looks like an 
improvement to a developer might actually be a regression in users' view.

The tone of his messages is purely and simply a result of the frustration.

Kevin Kofler

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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 03/28/2012 10:35 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
> 
> ah - i am not permitted to say my opinion of a very very bad
> idea before i become green light 

You are fighting a strawman and being repeatedly obnoxious about it.  If
you can't change how you voice your opinions, be silent.

Rahul





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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Adam Williamson]

On Wed, 2012-03-28 at 22:16 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
> Am 28.03.2012 21:09, schrieb Jared K. Smith:
> > On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Reindl Harald  
> > wrote:
> >> sorry but WHY do you strip the context of my message
> > 
> > Because my reply wasn't about the content of your message.  My reply
> > was all about the *tone* of your email.  
> 
> there was simply NOTHING wrong in the tone of my mail
> because it is the same one i usually communicate with
> many people over more than 10 years about technical
> things and nobody has a problem exepct mailing lists

I've heard at least a dozen people say they've gone to the trouble of
explicitly killfiling your mails. That really isn't a sign that there's
nothing wrong with your tone.
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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Reindl Harald]

Am 28.03.2012 21:09, schrieb Jared K. Smith:
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Reindl Harald  
> wrote:
>> sorry but WHY do you strip the context of my message
> 
> Because my reply wasn't about the content of your message.  My reply
> was all about the *tone* of your email.  

there was simply NOTHING wrong in the tone of my mail
because it is the same one i usually communicate with
many people over more than 10 years about technical
things and nobody has a problem exepct mailing lists

maybe the tone was minimal rude because i do absolutely
not understand why anyone can have the idea "hey let us
remove the whole custom partitioning and replace with
kickstart only" to solve problems with it

well if i burn  down the house my problem with a wrong
color is solved, but i doubt it does not help really :-)

> I know that language barrier
> is part of the problem here, but the tone of your email messages often
> comes across as demanding and condescending.

that may be your interpretation

i only try to be clear and as specific as possible by pointing out for me
very clear mistakes, bugs and wrong directions and if people starting to
judge every single word because it does not fit "their tone" we drive far
away from any sense

maybe i have often not enough patience by people
not understand what i try to tell them

don't get me wrong, but after using Fedora since FC3 on servers and
desktops, currently on more than 25 machines with all sort of things
(multimedia, desktop, database, router, firewall, httpd, vpn,
fileserver, voice-over-ip, dns, dhcp, ftp and some other services
while develop all backends and most websoftware internal and for customers)
i am pretty sure that there are really few people out there using the
distribtuion in so many different setups, and even - not many
are free to make each infrastructure decision involved too

maybe this overall point of view of so many parts of a linux-system is
the reason for my missing patience and sometimes not knowing how to
explain someone who is only interested in a small specific part what
i am saying because i can not explain over and over the full bandwith
and where things act together AND do this in a foreign language

sorry, but thats me



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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Jared K. Smith]

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 12:16 PM, Reindl Harald  wrote:
> sorry but WHY do you strip the context of my message

Because my reply wasn't about the content of your message.  My reply
was all about the *tone* of your email.  I know that language barrier
is part of the problem here, but the tone of your email messages often
comes across as demanding and condescending.

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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Reindl Harald]

Am 28.03.2012 18:55, schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
> On 03/28/2012 09:46 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>
>> and that is why i wrote the mail to not complain AFTER the fact
>> like systemd last year - i do not really understand your problem
>> with this message of me in the context - really!
> 
> You keep ranting based on assumptions. Someone has asked a question.
> Just wait for a reply first. 

ah - i am not permitted to say my opinion of a very very bad
idea before i become green light - from whom does this green
light come and how is it marked that i see it next time?

> Don't pile on top. Before pressing send,
> reread to make sure you don't appear to be demanding and shouting.  You
> continue to behave in a obnoxious way in the users list as well as
> others have pointed out there too.

can you please quote what extactly was "obnoxious" the last days?
seems for me that some people are really over sensitive

was it this?
if yes - why?

>> you need first to understand:
>> http://slacksite.com/other/ftp.html
>>
>> most clients these days are using PASV because active
>> ftp will not work if the client is behind a router
>> which has to forward random ports, so you have to
>> configure the packet-filter on the server as follows
>> ___
>>
>>"/etc/sysconfig/iptables-config" is your friend
>>
>>if your machine is behind a NAT router:
>>IPTABLES_MODULES="nf_conntrack_ftp nf_nat_ftp"
>>
>>if your machine has as public IP:
>>IPTABLES_MODULES="nf_conntrack_ftp"

or was it this?
if yes - why?

>> usually bash writes down .bash_history on close
>> try it out with "cat ~/.bash_history" and you will
>> not see the entries of your current session!
>>
>> so if you have more than one bash-instance open
>> all of them writing down their history and the
>> last one wins

if you mean the ONE theard with Joe Zeff after his
"not all people are using GNOME" in context of
"system-config-*" - sorry, but these are default
tools of fedora since forever and sometimes one is
reaching a point where i consider him as not smart
to say it polite



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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Rahul Sundaram]

On 03/28/2012 09:46 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:

> 
> and that is why i wrote the mail to not complain AFTER the fact
> like systemd last year - i do not really understand your problem
> with this message of me in the context - really!

You keep ranting based on assumptions.   Someone has asked a question.
Just wait for a reply first.  Don't pile on top. Before pressing send,
reread to make sure you don't appear to be demanding and shouting.  You
continue to behave in a obnoxious way in the users list as well as
others have pointed out there too.

Rahul


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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Reindl Harald]

Am 28.03.2012 17:58, schrieb Jared K. Smith:
> On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Reindl Harald  wrote:
>> if this ever happens anaconda has to be considered as
>> broken by design
> 
> Harald, I've tried to be patient with your recent posts to the devel
> list, but you don't seem to get the message (or you're actively
> choosing to ignore it), so I'm going to say it again as clearly as I
> can.  The universe of Fedora development doesn't revolve around you.
> Development involves a fair amount of group consensus, but as in any
> meritocracy -- people are more likely to have their opinions valued
> and listened to when they're willing to take an active role in the
> process, rather than playing Monday-morning quarterback (an American
> term, sorry) or complaining about things after the fact.

sorry but WHY do you strip the context of my message

>> Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
>>> Perhaps, like Ubuntu's installer, the graphical part of Anaconda
>>> should concentrate on doing the simple stuff, and leave everything
>>> else to kickstart non-graphical installations

this would mean you have from DVD only a "click, click" default
install and for every setup wihich is not default you have to
deal with kickstart

do you really think this is a good idea and improvement of
the installer in any way?

> complaining about things after the fact

and that is why i wrote the mail to not complain AFTER the fact
like systemd last year - i do not really understand your problem
with this message of me in the context - really!



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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Jared K. Smith]

On Wed, Mar 28, 2012 at 4:16 AM, Reindl Harald  wrote:
> if this ever happens anaconda has to be considered as
> broken by design

Harald, I've tried to be patient with your recent posts to the devel
list, but you don't seem to get the message (or you're actively
choosing to ignore it), so I'm going to say it again as clearly as I
can.  The universe of Fedora development doesn't revolve around you.
Development involves a fair amount of group consensus, but as in any
meritocracy -- people are more likely to have their opinions valued
and listened to when they're willing to take an active role in the
process, rather than playing Monday-morning quarterback (an American
term, sorry) or complaining about things after the fact.

> the currently active bugs has to be fixed instead remove
> capabilities at all

Who died and put you in charge of the anaconda team?  Do they now
answer to you?  Making demands like this is more likely to get you
ignored than to have a positive effect.

How about rather than demanding (or trying to project your own views
on the team's motives), you take a more active role in submitting bug
patches or helping out in some other positive way?  I've had the
opportunity to rub shoulders with many of the people on the anaconda
team over the past couple of years, and I've never once heard any of
them suggest that they want to remove capabilities and not fix bugs.
I understand that sometimes features or capabilities change (the
change in btrfs support in the F17 installer as a hot-button example),
but I don't ascribe any malice or ill-intent to the anaconda team for
making that change.  I also know that the anaconda team has a vision
for how they'd like anaconda to evolve.  I could guess (based on your
past mailing list posts) that you don't want any fundamental shifts in
the way anaconda works, but I'd rather not guess as to your wants or
desires either.  The reality is that anaconda is in the middle of a
major rewrite, and there are going to be quite a few changes before
things are done.

If you're serious about making anaconda better and are willing to work
to help on it, I'm sure the anaconda team would appreciate your help.
Otherwise, please try to be patient with changes and imperfections as
they work through the rewrite.  I can assure you that they're trying
their hardest to find the right balance of time between fixing bugs in
the older code and writing new code.

Again, I'm sorry to have to put this so bluntly, but I feel it needed
to be said.

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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Reindl Harald]

Am 28.03.2012 09:25, schrieb Thorsten Leemhuis:
> Adam Williamson wrote on 27.03.2012 20:14:
>> [...]
>> It's worth bearing in mind there's a giant anaconda UI rewrite still
>> pending, which entirely redesigns the storage configuration GUI. One of
>> the other major changes is that it makes all installations
>> kickstart-driven. The GUI will just produce a kickstart file, which
>> anaconda will then process to perform the actual install.
> 
> Just out of curiosity: Your description makes me assume that the
> installer in the future still don't do things like partitioning,
> formating or installing a basic set of packages in the background while
> the user (which has a high latency/response time) is asked questions
> about the root password to use, users accounts to create or which
> timezone the system is in?

if this ever happens anaconda has to be considered as
broken by design

the currently active bugs has to be fixed instead remove
capabilities at all

* no way to make /boot as RAID1 without "noefi"-kernel-param
  there has to be really a clear useable option to
  have /boot and / as RAID1 without any bios/efi-partition
  around - if a disk dies in a RAID1 the machine has
  to be bottable or considered as broken by design
  for endusers have to call me for support

* if i ceate 3 partitions i xcpect that they get
  /dev/sda1
  /dev/sad2
  /dev/sda3
  in exactly the order i create them instead switch the second
  one to /dev/sda1 after create the third



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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Thorsten Leemhuis]

Adam Williamson wrote on 27.03.2012 20:14:
> [...]
> It's worth bearing in mind there's a giant anaconda UI rewrite still
> pending, which entirely redesigns the storage configuration GUI. One of
> the other major changes is that it makes all installations
> kickstart-driven. The GUI will just produce a kickstart file, which
> anaconda will then process to perform the actual install.

Just out of curiosity: Your description makes me assume that the
installer in the future still don't do things like partitioning,
formating or installing a basic set of packages in the background while
the user (which has a high latency/response time) is asked questions
about the root password to use, users accounts to create or which
timezone the system is in?

Just wondering, because the Ubuntu installer does things like that,
which makes the installation a little bit quicker.

CU
 knurd
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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2012-03-26 at 21:16 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> > Umm ... okay.
> > 
> > Any particular reason?
> 
> Kickstarts are not very user-friendly nor convenient (unless you have 
> several machines to install with identical installs, which is what they were 
> invented for).
> 
> > Any other plans to make the current situation better?
> 
> Even QA-wise, I don't think making such a feature kickstart-only would 
> improve the situation at all, it'd reduce the testing it gets by a lot.

It's worth bearing in mind there's a giant anaconda UI rewrite still
pending, which entirely redesigns the storage configuration GUI. One of
the other major changes is that it makes all installations
kickstart-driven. The GUI will just produce a kickstart file, which
anaconda will then process to perform the actual install.

It's not a direct response to any of the points raised so far, but it's
worth bearing in mind while you're having this argument that F18
anaconda is going to look drastically different from F17 anaconda.
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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Adam Williamson]

On Mon, 2012-03-26 at 10:24 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 11:41:18PM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> > Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> > > Perhaps, like Ubuntu's installer, the graphical part of Anaconda
> > > should concentrate on doing the simple stuff, and leave everything
> > > else to kickstart non-graphical installations.
> > 
> > I don't think that would be a good idea, at all.
> 
> Umm ... okay.
> 
> Any particular reason?  Any other plans to make the current situation
> better?

Your mail didn't really go very far towards making the situation better,
though, did it? Saying that manual partitioning is 'full of bugs and
weirdness' without any actual description of any specific bug or
weirdness, or link to any bug report, is hardly a candidate for Most
Helpful Post Of The Year...
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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Kevin Kofler]

Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> Umm ... okay.
> 
> Any particular reason?

Kickstarts are not very user-friendly nor convenient (unless you have 
several machines to install with identical installs, which is what they were 
invented for).

> Any other plans to make the current situation better?

Even QA-wise, I don't think making such a feature kickstart-only would 
improve the situation at all, it'd reduce the testing it gets by a lot.

Kevin Kofler

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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Richard W.M. Jones]

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 11:41:18PM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
> Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> > Perhaps, like Ubuntu's installer, the graphical part of Anaconda
> > should concentrate on doing the simple stuff, and leave everything
> > else to kickstart non-graphical installations.
> 
> I don't think that would be a good idea, at all.

Umm ... okay.

Any particular reason?  Any other plans to make the current situation
better?

Rich.

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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Kevin Kofler]

Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
> Perhaps, like Ubuntu's installer, the graphical part of Anaconda
> should concentrate on doing the simple stuff, and leave everything
> else to kickstart non-graphical installations.

I don't think that would be a good idea, at all.

Kevin Kofler

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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Richard W.M. Jones]

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:08:42PM -0400, Gerry Reno wrote:
> You can do all of these things manually outside of anaconda and then
> just tell anaconda to use existing setup.  But that is not very user
> friendly.

I had similar problems trying to set up a basic RAID 1 (not /boot)
guest.  I found Anaconda is full of bugs and wierdness once you stray
into the custom partitioning code.

Apparently kickstart is a better way to do this.

Perhaps, like Ubuntu's installer, the graphical part of Anaconda
should concentrate on doing the simple stuff, and leave everything
else to kickstart non-graphical installations.

Rich.

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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Gerry Reno]

On 03/23/2012 11:26 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> Am 23.03.2012 16:19, schrieb Michael Cronenworth:
>   
>> David Lehman wrote:
>> 
>>> I was able to complete an install of F17-Alpha just now with all lvm. I
>>> had to force the use of MSDOS disklabel instead of GPT (used parted's
>>> mklabel command on tty2 while the anaconda prerelease warning was on
>>> screen on tty6)
>>>   
>> Does the anaconda option "nogpt" no longer exist?
>> 
> you have to boot with "noefi" as kernel-param to get
> rid of this whole GPT/EFI crap and end in a successful
> customized disk layout
>
> this took me THREE HOURS last monday to get a machne
> setup with 3 raid1 (/boot, / and /data), really poor
> have a OS installer not supporting /boot on a mirrored
> RAID leading in a unbootable system if the wrong disk
> fails in the year 2012
>
> the F16 error message is useless, so i burned
> F15 again, got a better error message which brought
> the "noefi" option by google and since it was a DVD-RW
> after the first setup upgrade to F16
>
> anaconda is really one of the most hated things of
> me since many years and because F17 alpha falls back
> on text-installation while manual partitioning is
> rmeoved in text-mode currently more than ever
>
>   

/boot on RAID is related to this bug: 
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=54  which I opened 3
years ago.

Things have only gotten worse since.

I can create virtually any type of layout when installing Ubuntu/Debian
but not so with Fedora.

Two things that would be useful are /boot on md0 array and creating
RAID-1 arrays with just one disk (degraded, other disk to be added later).

You can do all of these things manually outside of anaconda and then
just tell anaconda to use existing setup.  But that is not very user
friendly.

.

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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Reindl Harald]

Am 23.03.2012 16:19, schrieb Michael Cronenworth:
> David Lehman wrote:
>> I was able to complete an install of F17-Alpha just now with all lvm. I
>> had to force the use of MSDOS disklabel instead of GPT (used parted's
>> mklabel command on tty2 while the anaconda prerelease warning was on
>> screen on tty6)
> 
> Does the anaconda option "nogpt" no longer exist?

you have to boot with "noefi" as kernel-param to get
rid of this whole GPT/EFI crap and end in a successful
customized disk layout

this took me THREE HOURS last monday to get a machne
setup with 3 raid1 (/boot, / and /data), really poor
have a OS installer not supporting /boot on a mirrored
RAID leading in a unbootable system if the wrong disk
fails in the year 2012

the F16 error message is useless, so i burned
F15 again, got a better error message which brought
the "noefi" option by google and since it was a DVD-RW
after the first setup upgrade to F16

anaconda is really one of the most hated things of
me since many years and because F17 alpha falls back
on text-installation while manual partitioning is
rmeoved in text-mode currently more than ever



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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[David Lehman]

On Fri, 2012-03-23 at 10:19 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> David Lehman wrote:
> > I was able to complete an install of F17-Alpha just now with all lvm. I
> > had to force the use of MSDOS disklabel instead of GPT (used parted's
> > mklabel command on tty2 while the anaconda prerelease warning was on
> > screen on tty6)
> 
> Does the anaconda option "nogpt" no longer exist?

It still exists. Since I was doing custom partitioning, however,
anaconda would not have modified my existing disklabel.


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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[Michael Cronenworth]

David Lehman wrote:

I was able to complete an install of F17-Alpha just now with all lvm. I
had to force the use of MSDOS disklabel instead of GPT (used parted's
mklabel command on tty2 while the anaconda prerelease warning was on
screen on tty6)


Does the anaconda option "nogpt" no longer exist?
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Re: Booting Fedora from LVM with grub2

[David Lehman]

On Thu, 2012-03-22 at 19:41 +0100, Jochen Schmitt wrote:
> Hallo,
> 
> because I have read, that grub2 should be able to boot from LVM. I have
> done the
> following test in a VM
> 
> 1.) Fresh install of Fedora 16. Unfortunately, I can't create a disk
> which contains olny
> a volume group, so I have taken the default partition schema to install
> Fedora..

I was able to complete an install of F17-Alpha just now with all lvm. I
had to force the use of MSDOS disklabel instead of GPT (used parted's
mklabel command on tty2 while the anaconda prerelease warning was on
screen on tty6), then I used custom partitioning to create a single
partition on disk as an lvm pv. I then created logical volumes for root,
swap, and home. The rest of installation went smoothly, as did the
reboot.


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