Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
Congratulations on your ability to Google information that has always been public. I have little interest in talking to people who make false accusations of impropriety. When you grow up you'll understand. On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 6:01 AM wrote: > Hi, > I respect your wishes, however misguided, to protect the anonymity of > your fellow board members Scott Miller, Oskar Sandberg, and Adam > Langley, and your undoubtedly distinguished secretary Steven Starr. > However, they and you should know that as a nonprofit corporation > registered in the United States, specifically Austin, Texas, their > names are not private information. > > You are making decisions with respect not simply to a community of > people who's only investment is time, but also to an actual, registered > corporation, EIN 95-4864038. You do not have the right to privacy in > making these decisions. You do not have the right to anonymity from > those who contribute cash to you. I am not qualified as a lawyer to > state what disclosures or decision making powers you owe to those who > fund you. > > I am, however, qualified to state that you do not get to hide in the > dark. Operating a corporation comes with some costs; among them, > accountability. Anyone can quite easily fine the EIN of The Freenet > Project Inc, and from there use the IRS's handy free tool located > here[1] to get to a nice data page with this information. > > [1]: https://apps.irs.gov/app/eos/ > > I have uploaded a copy of the Freenet projects 2019 tax return to > Freenet[2]. Not Freenet Classic; in fact because I used the most > modern compression scheme in inserting it Freenet Classic will fail to > load this file. This is public domain information; you knew that when > you submitted it, because it said in nice bold letters that it was > "Open to public inspection" and that you should "not enter social > security numbers on this form". > > [2]: CHK@GkFzsiuQV8QB6R9t7du3lsFPk9NJB0GyhDQzHwn9EFc > ,pDW2x5PL6ett9a0mHLHvlqnhy73rEhQ4UVS8yU2yCmk,AAMC--8/954864038_201912_990EZ_2020101017366462.pdf > > You have the right to lie, and to obscure public information. What you > lack is the right for others not to release that information. I find > it very interesting that you claim to work 14 hours per week in service > of Freenet, when it seems that nobody can attest to you doing any work > at all. > > That's all. Sorry for nerco'ing the thread, but I've been pretty busy > for a while and thus wasn't aware of this occurring. > > Oh, and one more thing. As a proud member of the next generation, at > the noble young age of 19, I want to state, on the record, that I am > strongly opposed to this change. You're a Gen X'er. Only one step > above a boomer. And yet you claim to know what will be good for a > future that you have sabotaged? Our world is burning, people are > dying, and yet you seem to believe that because you started a project > before I was even born you have the right to rename it and force others > to do hours of work on your behalf? At least go to the effort of > updating your own Wikipedia page to clarify that, contrary to the > understanding of every person under the sun, "freenet" refers to to a > specific model of communication program but to a "mission statement". > > Statistically speaking, you will be dead before the 20-year horizon > you're so concerned about will come to pass. I'll still be here, > trying to clean up the mess you created through your narcissism in > beliveing that you have any rights over this project simply because you > hold the corporate presidency. Freenode is dead. Don't kill Freenet > too. > > Calum Morgan McConnell > Electrical and Computer Engineering Student > Lafayette College > > P.S. I'd include my address here, too, since I am pointing the world > to where yours can be found. But I haven't founded any corporations, > and I certainly haven't decided to skimp on paying for a PO Box rather > than just include the address to my 3 bedroom family home on the tax > returns. So you'll just have to hunt that information down yourself. > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
Thank you Peter and Zlatin, nice to hear from you after all this time :) -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
Thank you, Hakimi :) I don't think anyone in this thread seriously thinks I'm a racist. There is just a certain type of person who thinks they can get what they want by throwing false accusations. These people are toxic and I have zero tolerance for them. They're bullies and like most bullies - they're cowards who run away when someone stands up to them. I think more and more people are slowly learning this. Thank you again for your support. On Thu, Jan 26, 2023 at 10:26 AM Hakimi Abdul Jabar < hakimibinabduljabar1...@gmail.com> wrote: > Ladies & Gentlemen, > > I've been working on FREENET dev etc. for more than 2 DECADES ever since > Ian bravely made the Project objectives close to our hearts and minds. > > For more than 2 Decades now, I have never seen any racist remark from the > Founder-Developer, Ian Clarke on the dev platform and on Facebook and any > other socmedia. > > We've got numerous contributors of ethnic background right here and racial > overtones are Non-Existent. Thanks partly to Ian. We NEVER see Ian > discriminatively making remarks or by prejudicial actions that borders on > Racism for more than 20 years now. > > Let us continue with the same spirit of camaraderie and eager anticipation > that have been pushing us into the doors of success. I still have the same > passion for Freenet ever since I graduated with my law degree from Univ. of > Wolverhampton in 1998 and was studying to be a full-fledged lawyer. Ian > who had graduated from varsity around the same time who had came out with > this wonderful and yet fanciful IDEA is amazing! LMAO > > Just remember this most important fact! Unlike the PayPal and Google devs, > we're not Billionaires! Hahahahaha! > > For FREENET fellas! > > On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 at 01:09, Ian Clarke wrote: > >> Only a midwit idiot would think that remark was racist, particularly one >> who brought racism into the conversation in the first place. >> >> I thought it was funny, and that's all that matters. If you don't like >> it, I suggest you touch grass. >> >> I'm going to start blocking you idiots. >> >> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 9:38 AM craig mcgee < >> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >> >>> I have to admit I was confused by the statement Ian made. Joke or not, >>> it wasn't funny. >>> but this is as far as I will go on the matter as I don't wish to get >>> involved in the freenet dispute. >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> *From:* Russell Glenn >>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:33 PM >>> *Subject:* Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >>> >>> Mr. Ian Clarke, >>> >>> when discussing your acquisition of a secondary domain, >>> "freenet.org", for your highly controversial unilateral decision >>> to rewrite the Freenet Project which has always been hosted >>> on "freenetproject.org", you said the following: >>> >>> > Yeah, all of the provocatively racist domain names were taken anyway. >>> >>> Notice that this is a VERBATIM quote, and the email of yours did >>> not contain ANY other content, nothing to reduce the gravity of >>> this statement; the gravity of which cannot be reduced anyway. >>> Proof: >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55336.html >>> >>> As a black person, but not only as such, I inform you that racism >>> is NOT tolerable by any means whatsoever on this planet and will >>> NEVER be. >>> >>> And before you attempt to dismiss this as a joke: >>> Millions of people died due to racism. >>> You, especially as a white person, are not entitled to joke about that. >>> Nobody is. >>> >>> And this piles onto the provable falsehoods and other insults you have >>> produced on this list in the previous days. >>> >>> Therefore, it is my duty to join the ranks of people who request >>> you to: >>> * immediately step down as leader of the Freenet Project and >>> * leave its board and >>> * transfer ownership of the domains to the Freenet developer team and >>> * transfer ownership of all other related accounts and >>> * cease to use the name "Freenet" for any of your new projects. >>> >>> Racists, or those who joke about racism, do not belong into positions >>> where power is wielded. >>> >>> As you have failed to prove that the board of the project is still >>
Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
Child. On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 6:16 PM craig mcgee < craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: > i'm sure "truth social" would be acceptable. maybe "oan" too... > > - Original Message - > *From:* DJ Amireh > *To:* devl@freenetproject.org > *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 11:35 PM > *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list > > So I'm not allowed to cite articles from the internet, I'm not allowed to > cite articles from peer reviewed journals or universities, what am I > allowed to cite? Is there any evidence you would accept that would change > your mind? If there is literally no evidence that someone could bring to > bear to challenge your belief I would have to say that is the definition of > closed minded. > > On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:30 PM Ian Clarke wrote: > >> Trusting academic papers is even worse than trusting Wikipedia >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair>, have you not >> been paying attention? >> >> Anyway, I'm not trying to persuade you. I don't have time to pick apart >> your gish gallop of stuff you just googled. >> >> If you believe in Freenet's mission then please stick around, but you'll >> need to develop a bit more tolerance for diversity of thought. >> >> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:22 PM DJ Amireh wrote: >> >>> I would suggest that to keep the argument above board we should be >>> relying on academic sources. Here is my first source: "Cultural Marxism and >>> the Radical Right" published in the anthology "The Post-War Anglo-American >>> Far Right" by the University of Northampton UK. Abstract: "This essay >>> examines the conspiratorial dynamics of the term Cultural Marxism, which >>> has been deployed by a number of extreme right activists. Jamin parses this >>> discourse from its origins in the Free Congress Foundation, to its uptake >>> by the high-profile American politician Pat Buchanan, to its eventual >>> employment by Anders Breivik. As well as in Anglophone settings such as >>> Breivik’s manifesto, analysis also highlights that the concept has found a >>> relevance within the British extreme right. Figures including Nick Griffin >>> have drawn on this terminology, a discourse offering a useful crutch to >>> support various political arguments. Jamin’s conclusions highlight the >>> nebulous nature of this discourse, allowing a variety of protagonists to >>> use it to mobilize a range of passions." >>> https://books.google.com/books?id=VbLSBAAAQBAJ >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:11 PM Ian Clarke wrote: >>> >>>> Do you seriously think Wikipedia is a reliable source on anything >>>> remotely related to woke ideology? That's hilarious. >>>> >>>> The term "Cultural Marxism" is used by many Jewish people, and when >>>> they use it, they aren't talking about a far-right ideology. They're >>>> talking about a far-left ideology. >>>> >>>> What you're talking about is a form of terminological >>>> guilt-by-association, a very dishonest way to try to discredit someone >>>> simply by them *mentioning the name of an ideology*. >>>> >>>> It's Orwellian. Try to diversify your news sources, you're living in a >>>> bubble. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:01 PM DJ Amireh wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sounds like you are unfamiliar with the contemporary discussion using >>>>> the terms you are bandying about. Heres an encyclopedia article that may >>>>> enlighten you: >>>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory I >>>>> believe the first paragraph fits what you are saying to a T, claiming the >>>>> downfall of western civilization and accusing your opponents of >>>>> "neomarxism" : "The term "*Cultural Marxism*" refers to a far-right >>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right> antisemitic >>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic> conspiracy theory >>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory> which claims that >>>>> Western >>>>> Marxism <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Marxism> is the >>>>> basis of continuing academic and intellectual efforts to subvert Western >>>>> culture <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weste
Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
With that word salad, I'm done with this thread. On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:52 PM DJ Amireh wrote: > Sounds like you have already thoroughly made your mind up and any evidence > that anyone tried to bring to you to show you why you may be mistaken will > be immediately dismissed as coming from some illegitimate demonic "mind > virus" that only you can perceive yet can't extrapolate to anybody else > what would constitute a legitimate or illegitimate source. > > On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:42 PM Ian Clarke wrote: > >> You can cite anything you want, you're just not entitled to the time it >> would take me to debunk a bunch of pseudoscientific nonsense. I'm not your >> butler. >> >> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:35 PM DJ Amireh wrote: >> >>> So I'm not allowed to cite articles from the internet, I'm not allowed >>> to cite articles from peer reviewed journals or universities, what am I >>> allowed to cite? Is there any evidence you would accept that would change >>> your mind? If there is literally no evidence that someone could bring to >>> bear to challenge your belief I would have to say that is the definition of >>> closed minded. >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:30 PM Ian Clarke wrote: >>> >>>> Trusting academic papers is even worse than trusting Wikipedia >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair>, have you not >>>> been paying attention? >>>> >>>> Anyway, I'm not trying to persuade you. I don't have time to pick apart >>>> your gish gallop of stuff you just googled. >>>> >>>> If you believe in Freenet's mission then please stick around, but >>>> you'll need to develop a bit more tolerance for diversity of thought. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:22 PM DJ Amireh wrote: >>>> >>>>> I would suggest that to keep the argument above board we should be >>>>> relying on academic sources. Here is my first source: "Cultural Marxism >>>>> and >>>>> the Radical Right" published in the anthology "The Post-War Anglo-American >>>>> Far Right" by the University of Northampton UK. Abstract: "This essay >>>>> examines the conspiratorial dynamics of the term Cultural Marxism, which >>>>> has been deployed by a number of extreme right activists. Jamin parses >>>>> this >>>>> discourse from its origins in the Free Congress Foundation, to its uptake >>>>> by the high-profile American politician Pat Buchanan, to its eventual >>>>> employment by Anders Breivik. As well as in Anglophone settings such as >>>>> Breivik’s manifesto, analysis also highlights that the concept has found a >>>>> relevance within the British extreme right. Figures including Nick Griffin >>>>> have drawn on this terminology, a discourse offering a useful crutch to >>>>> support various political arguments. Jamin’s conclusions highlight the >>>>> nebulous nature of this discourse, allowing a variety of protagonists to >>>>> use it to mobilize a range of passions." >>>>> https://books.google.com/books?id=VbLSBAAAQBAJ >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:11 PM Ian Clarke wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Do you seriously think Wikipedia is a reliable source on anything >>>>>> remotely related to woke ideology? That's hilarious. >>>>>> >>>>>> The term "Cultural Marxism" is used by many Jewish people, and when >>>>>> they use it, they aren't talking about a far-right ideology. They're >>>>>> talking about a far-left ideology. >>>>>> >>>>>> What you're talking about is a form of terminological >>>>>> guilt-by-association, a very dishonest way to try to discredit someone >>>>>> simply by them *mentioning the name of an ideology*. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's Orwellian. Try to diversify your news sources, you're living in >>>>>> a bubble. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:01 PM DJ Amireh >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Sounds like you are unfamiliar with the contemporary discussion >>>>>>> using the terms you are bandying about. Heres an encyclopedia article >>>>>>> that &
Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
You can cite anything you want, you're just not entitled to the time it would take me to debunk a bunch of pseudoscientific nonsense. I'm not your butler. On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:35 PM DJ Amireh wrote: > So I'm not allowed to cite articles from the internet, I'm not allowed to > cite articles from peer reviewed journals or universities, what am I > allowed to cite? Is there any evidence you would accept that would change > your mind? If there is literally no evidence that someone could bring to > bear to challenge your belief I would have to say that is the definition of > closed minded. > > On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:30 PM Ian Clarke wrote: > >> Trusting academic papers is even worse than trusting Wikipedia >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair>, have you not >> been paying attention? >> >> Anyway, I'm not trying to persuade you. I don't have time to pick apart >> your gish gallop of stuff you just googled. >> >> If you believe in Freenet's mission then please stick around, but you'll >> need to develop a bit more tolerance for diversity of thought. >> >> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:22 PM DJ Amireh wrote: >> >>> I would suggest that to keep the argument above board we should be >>> relying on academic sources. Here is my first source: "Cultural Marxism and >>> the Radical Right" published in the anthology "The Post-War Anglo-American >>> Far Right" by the University of Northampton UK. Abstract: "This essay >>> examines the conspiratorial dynamics of the term Cultural Marxism, which >>> has been deployed by a number of extreme right activists. Jamin parses this >>> discourse from its origins in the Free Congress Foundation, to its uptake >>> by the high-profile American politician Pat Buchanan, to its eventual >>> employment by Anders Breivik. As well as in Anglophone settings such as >>> Breivik’s manifesto, analysis also highlights that the concept has found a >>> relevance within the British extreme right. Figures including Nick Griffin >>> have drawn on this terminology, a discourse offering a useful crutch to >>> support various political arguments. Jamin’s conclusions highlight the >>> nebulous nature of this discourse, allowing a variety of protagonists to >>> use it to mobilize a range of passions." >>> https://books.google.com/books?id=VbLSBAAAQBAJ >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:11 PM Ian Clarke wrote: >>> >>>> Do you seriously think Wikipedia is a reliable source on anything >>>> remotely related to woke ideology? That's hilarious. >>>> >>>> The term "Cultural Marxism" is used by many Jewish people, and when >>>> they use it, they aren't talking about a far-right ideology. They're >>>> talking about a far-left ideology. >>>> >>>> What you're talking about is a form of terminological >>>> guilt-by-association, a very dishonest way to try to discredit someone >>>> simply by them *mentioning the name of an ideology*. >>>> >>>> It's Orwellian. Try to diversify your news sources, you're living in a >>>> bubble. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:01 PM DJ Amireh wrote: >>>> >>>>> Sounds like you are unfamiliar with the contemporary discussion using >>>>> the terms you are bandying about. Heres an encyclopedia article that may >>>>> enlighten you: >>>>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory I >>>>> believe the first paragraph fits what you are saying to a T, claiming the >>>>> downfall of western civilization and accusing your opponents of >>>>> "neomarxism" : "The term "*Cultural Marxism*" refers to a far-right >>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right> antisemitic >>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic> conspiracy theory >>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory> which claims that >>>>> Western >>>>> Marxism <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Marxism> is the >>>>> basis of continuing academic and intellectual efforts to subvert Western >>>>> culture <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture>. The >>>>> conspiracy theory misrepresents the Frankfurt School >>>>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School> as being >>>
Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
Trusting academic papers is even worse than trusting Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grievance_studies_affair>, have you not been paying attention? Anyway, I'm not trying to persuade you. I don't have time to pick apart your gish gallop of stuff you just googled. If you believe in Freenet's mission then please stick around, but you'll need to develop a bit more tolerance for diversity of thought. On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:22 PM DJ Amireh wrote: > I would suggest that to keep the argument above board we should be relying > on academic sources. Here is my first source: "Cultural Marxism and the > Radical Right" published in the anthology "The Post-War Anglo-American Far > Right" by the University of Northampton UK. Abstract: "This essay examines > the conspiratorial dynamics of the term Cultural Marxism, which has been > deployed by a number of extreme right activists. Jamin parses this > discourse from its origins in the Free Congress Foundation, to its uptake > by the high-profile American politician Pat Buchanan, to its eventual > employment by Anders Breivik. As well as in Anglophone settings such as > Breivik’s manifesto, analysis also highlights that the concept has found a > relevance within the British extreme right. Figures including Nick Griffin > have drawn on this terminology, a discourse offering a useful crutch to > support various political arguments. Jamin’s conclusions highlight the > nebulous nature of this discourse, allowing a variety of protagonists to > use it to mobilize a range of passions." > https://books.google.com/books?id=VbLSBAAAQBAJ > > On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 6:11 PM Ian Clarke wrote: > >> Do you seriously think Wikipedia is a reliable source on anything >> remotely related to woke ideology? That's hilarious. >> >> The term "Cultural Marxism" is used by many Jewish people, and when they >> use it, they aren't talking about a far-right ideology. They're talking >> about a far-left ideology. >> >> What you're talking about is a form of terminological >> guilt-by-association, a very dishonest way to try to discredit someone >> simply by them *mentioning the name of an ideology*. >> >> It's Orwellian. Try to diversify your news sources, you're living in a >> bubble. >> >> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:01 PM DJ Amireh wrote: >> >>> Sounds like you are unfamiliar with the contemporary discussion using >>> the terms you are bandying about. Heres an encyclopedia article that may >>> enlighten you: >>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory I >>> believe the first paragraph fits what you are saying to a T, claiming the >>> downfall of western civilization and accusing your opponents of >>> "neomarxism" : "The term "*Cultural Marxism*" refers to a far-right >>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right> antisemitic >>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic> conspiracy theory >>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory> which claims that >>> Western >>> Marxism <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Marxism> is the basis >>> of continuing academic and intellectual efforts to subvert Western >>> culture <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture>. The >>> conspiracy theory misrepresents the Frankfurt School >>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School> as being responsible >>> for modern progressive >>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_politics> movements, identity >>> politics <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics>, and political >>> correctness <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness>, >>> claiming there is an ongoing and intentional subversion >>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion> of Western society via a >>> planned culture war <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war> that >>> undermines the Christian values of traditionalist conservatism >>> <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_conservatism> and seeks >>> to replace them with the culturally liberal values of the 1960s." >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:48 PM Ian Clarke wrote: >>> >>>> I understand the exact meaning of the terms I've been using, but if you >>>> don't you can just admit that. I'm happy to explain. >>>> >>>> I'm just as opposed to corruption as you are, whether in government or >>>> private organizat
Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
Do you seriously think Wikipedia is a reliable source on anything remotely related to woke ideology? That's hilarious. The term "Cultural Marxism" is used by many Jewish people, and when they use it, they aren't talking about a far-right ideology. They're talking about a far-left ideology. What you're talking about is a form of terminological guilt-by-association, a very dishonest way to try to discredit someone simply by them *mentioning the name of an ideology*. It's Orwellian. Try to diversify your news sources, you're living in a bubble. On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 5:01 PM DJ Amireh wrote: > Sounds like you are unfamiliar with the contemporary discussion using the > terms you are bandying about. Heres an encyclopedia article that may > enlighten you: > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory I > believe the first paragraph fits what you are saying to a T, claiming the > downfall of western civilization and accusing your opponents of > "neomarxism" : "The term "*Cultural Marxism*" refers to a far-right > <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right> antisemitic > <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitic> conspiracy theory > <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory> which claims that Western > Marxism <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Marxism> is the basis of > continuing academic and intellectual efforts to subvert Western culture > <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture>. The conspiracy theory > misrepresents the Frankfurt School > <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School> as being responsible > for modern progressive > <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_politics> movements, identity > politics <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_politics>, and political > correctness <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_correctness>, > claiming there is an ongoing and intentional subversion > <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subversion> of Western society via a > planned culture war <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_war> that > undermines the Christian values of traditionalist conservatism > <https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditionalist_conservatism> and seeks > to replace them with the culturally liberal values of the 1960s." > > On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:48 PM Ian Clarke wrote: > >> I understand the exact meaning of the terms I've been using, but if you >> don't you can just admit that. I'm happy to explain. >> >> I'm just as opposed to corruption as you are, whether in government or >> private organizations. as I said, I respect left-liberals. >> >> Postmodern neomarxism, aka the woke-mind-virus, has nothing to do with >> fixing any of that, on the contrary it's a whole different kind of >> corruption, far more dangerous. >> >> Is this all completely new to you? I can recommend a few books if it >> would help. Do you live in an English-speaking country? >> >> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:42 PM DJ Amireh wrote: >> >>> The biggest threat to free speech today is the take over of corporations >>> and shareholders as the arbiters of what is and is not allowed to be >>> spoken. We allow this to happen because corporations and shareholders "know >>> what's best for the economy" and if you don't like it you're a "postmodern >>> neomarxist." Sad to see these thought stopping political buzzwords being >>> thrown around to label, demean and dismiss any opposition to the corporate >>> takeover of speech and thought. >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:13 PM Ian Clarke wrote: >>> >>>> That's why I clarified with postmodern neomarxism, although FYI - in >>>> the US everyone views "woke" as a pejorative >>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adPXDTvADD0>. >>>> >>>> Here is an excellent book >>>> <https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America-ebook/dp/B095JLK96B> >>>> about >>>> it by a Columbia University linguistics professor. Let me know what you >>>> think! >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:05 PM craig mcgee < >>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I take woke to mean definition 1. >>>>> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke >>>>> what is so wrong with that? >>>>> >>>>> - Original Message - >>>>> *From:* Ian Clarke >>>>> *
Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
UK party politics is definitely off-topic for this list. On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:54 PM craig mcgee < craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: > I didnt say thats what free speech is, I said that's what it seems to be, > that's what our government in the UK is like anyway. demonizing everyone > from refugees to disabled people, but then crying wolf every time someone > throws something vaguely nasty like "tory scum" back at them, after they've > dished it out. > > yes, I know exactly what freenet is, surely you've seen my many emails > about accessibility of the project, particularly freemail and the captchas. > > - Original Message - > *From:* Ian Clarke > *To:* devl@freenetproject.org > *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 10:50 PM > *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list > > On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:48 PM craig mcgee < > craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: > >> "free speech" these days also seems to be, unfortunately, anything that >> demeans minorities, but anything to criticise those demeaning minorities is >> obviously not free speech and should be demonized immediately. >> > > No, that's definitely not what free speech is, don't be silly. > > If you hate free speech so much, why are you on earth are you on this > mailing list? Do you know what Freenet is? > > So weird. > > > -- > Ian Clarke > Founder, The Freenet Project > Email: i...@freenet.org > > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:48 PM craig mcgee < craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: > "free speech" these days also seems to be, unfortunately, anything that > demeans minorities, but anything to criticise those demeaning minorities is > obviously not free speech and should be demonized immediately. > No, that's definitely not what free speech is, don't be silly. If you hate free speech so much, why are you on earth are you on this mailing list? Do you know what Freenet is? So weird. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
I understand the exact meaning of the terms I've been using, but if you don't you can just admit that. I'm happy to explain. I'm just as opposed to corruption as you are, whether in government or private organizations. as I said, I respect left-liberals. Postmodern neomarxism, aka the woke-mind-virus, has nothing to do with fixing any of that, on the contrary it's a whole different kind of corruption, far more dangerous. Is this all completely new to you? I can recommend a few books if it would help. Do you live in an English-speaking country? On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:42 PM DJ Amireh wrote: > The biggest threat to free speech today is the take over of corporations > and shareholders as the arbiters of what is and is not allowed to be > spoken. We allow this to happen because corporations and shareholders "know > what's best for the economy" and if you don't like it you're a "postmodern > neomarxist." Sad to see these thought stopping political buzzwords being > thrown around to label, demean and dismiss any opposition to the corporate > takeover of speech and thought. > > On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 5:13 PM Ian Clarke wrote: > >> That's why I clarified with postmodern neomarxism, although FYI - in the >> US everyone views "woke" as a pejorative >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adPXDTvADD0>. >> >> Here is an excellent book >> <https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America-ebook/dp/B095JLK96B> >> about >> it by a Columbia University linguistics professor. Let me know what you >> think! >> >> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:05 PM craig mcgee < >> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >> >>> I take woke to mean definition 1. >>> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke >>> what is so wrong with that? >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> *From:* Ian Clarke >>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 9:55 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >>> >>> I am a classical liberal and a social libertarian. I grew up as part of >>> a small religious minority and saw ethnic bigotry at a young age. Even as a >>> child I instantly recognized it as evil. >>> >>> I have no problem with left liberals, libertarians, or conservatives. I >>> think they each bring a critical perspective. >>> >>> I hate identitarianism in all its forms, on the right and the left. >>> >>> The woke mind virus, more formally postmodern neo-marxism, is the >>> greatest threat to civilization today. It is a cancer that has already done >>> incredible damage. >>> >>> Anyone who has a problem with that can touch grass. You can quote me on >>> that. >>> >>> Thanks for your support on the name change :) >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 3:36 PM DJ Amireh wrote: >>> >>>> I agreed with Ian on the name change and I think "Freenet classic" is >>>> perfectly acceptable and indicates exactly what it is -- the classic >>>> version. It's not saying it's outdated or legacy or anything like that. And >>>> I sympathize with Ian's frustration dealing with this but personally as a >>>> member of "the next generation" that Ian is concerned about I was >>>> disappointed to see this "anti woke rhetoric" being thrown around. The next >>>> generation is not pro or anti woke but throwing around accusations of >>>> "virtue signalling" is typical alt right rhetoric and something I was >>>> disappointed to see from someone representing a project that I hold in high >>>> regards. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 12:16 PM Ian Clarke wrote: >>>> >>>>> Woke virtue signaling noted. I don't care whether you find it funny. >>>>> I'm not seeking your approval. >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 11:12 AM craig mcgee < >>>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ian, >>>>>> I didn't say your statement was racist, just that I didnt find it >>>>>> funny, that's all. I gathered it was made as a joke, but just wanted to >>>>>> state my opposition to racism, as russel requested, and leave it at that. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Original Message - >>>>>> *Fro
Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
That's why I clarified with postmodern neomarxism, although FYI - in the US everyone views "woke" as a pejorative <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adPXDTvADD0>. Here is an excellent book <https://www.amazon.com/Woke-Racism-Religion-Betrayed-America-ebook/dp/B095JLK96B> about it by a Columbia University linguistics professor. Let me know what you think! On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 4:05 PM craig mcgee < craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: > I take woke to mean definition 1. > https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woke > what is so wrong with that? > > - Original Message - > *From:* Ian Clarke > *To:* devl@freenetproject.org > *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 9:55 PM > *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list > > I am a classical liberal and a social libertarian. I grew up as part of a > small religious minority and saw ethnic bigotry at a young age. Even as a > child I instantly recognized it as evil. > > I have no problem with left liberals, libertarians, or conservatives. I > think they each bring a critical perspective. > > I hate identitarianism in all its forms, on the right and the left. > > The woke mind virus, more formally postmodern neo-marxism, is the greatest > threat to civilization today. It is a cancer that has already done > incredible damage. > > Anyone who has a problem with that can touch grass. You can quote me on > that. > > Thanks for your support on the name change :) > > > On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 3:36 PM DJ Amireh wrote: > >> I agreed with Ian on the name change and I think "Freenet classic" is >> perfectly acceptable and indicates exactly what it is -- the classic >> version. It's not saying it's outdated or legacy or anything like that. And >> I sympathize with Ian's frustration dealing with this but personally as a >> member of "the next generation" that Ian is concerned about I was >> disappointed to see this "anti woke rhetoric" being thrown around. The next >> generation is not pro or anti woke but throwing around accusations of >> "virtue signalling" is typical alt right rhetoric and something I was >> disappointed to see from someone representing a project that I hold in high >> regards. >> >> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 12:16 PM Ian Clarke wrote: >> >>> Woke virtue signaling noted. I don't care whether you find it funny. I'm >>> not seeking your approval. >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 11:12 AM craig mcgee < >>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> Ian, >>>> I didn't say your statement was racist, just that I didnt find it >>>> funny, that's all. I gathered it was made as a joke, but just wanted to >>>> state my opposition to racism, as russel requested, and leave it at that. >>>> >>>> - Original Message - >>>> *From:* Ian Clarke >>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 5:07 PM >>>> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >>>> >>>> Only a midwit idiot would think that remark was racist, particularly >>>> one who brought racism into the conversation in the first place. >>>> >>>> I thought it was funny, and that's all that matters. If you don't like >>>> it, I suggest you touch grass. >>>> >>>> I'm going to start blocking you idiots. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 9:38 AM craig mcgee < >>>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I have to admit I was confused by the statement Ian made. Joke or not, >>>>> it wasn't funny. >>>>> but this is as far as I will go on the matter as I don't wish to get >>>>> involved in the freenet dispute. >>>>> >>>>> - Original Message - >>>>> *From:* Russell Glenn >>>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:33 PM >>>>> *Subject:* Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >>>>> >>>>> Mr. Ian Clarke, >>>>> >>>>> when discussing your acquisition of a secondary domain, >>>>> "freenet.org", for your highly controversial unilateral decision >>>>> to rewrite the Freenet Project which has always been hosted >>>>> on "freenetproject.org", you said the following: >>>>> >>&g
Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
I am a classical liberal and a social libertarian. I grew up as part of a small religious minority and saw ethnic bigotry at a young age. Even as a child I instantly recognized it as evil. I have no problem with left liberals, libertarians, or conservatives. I think they each bring a critical perspective. I hate identitarianism in all its forms, on the right and the left. The woke mind virus, more formally postmodern neo-marxism, is the greatest threat to civilization today. It is a cancer that has already done incredible damage. Anyone who has a problem with that can touch grass. You can quote me on that. Thanks for your support on the name change :) On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 3:36 PM DJ Amireh wrote: > I agreed with Ian on the name change and I think "Freenet classic" is > perfectly acceptable and indicates exactly what it is -- the classic > version. It's not saying it's outdated or legacy or anything like that. And > I sympathize with Ian's frustration dealing with this but personally as a > member of "the next generation" that Ian is concerned about I was > disappointed to see this "anti woke rhetoric" being thrown around. The next > generation is not pro or anti woke but throwing around accusations of > "virtue signalling" is typical alt right rhetoric and something I was > disappointed to see from someone representing a project that I hold in high > regards. > > On Sun, Jan 22, 2023, 12:16 PM Ian Clarke wrote: > >> Woke virtue signaling noted. I don't care whether you find it funny. I'm >> not seeking your approval. >> >> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 11:12 AM craig mcgee < >> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >> >>> Ian, >>> I didn't say your statement was racist, just that I didnt find it funny, >>> that's all. I gathered it was made as a joke, but just wanted to state my >>> opposition to racism, as russel requested, and leave it at that. >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> *From:* Ian Clarke >>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 5:07 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >>> >>> Only a midwit idiot would think that remark was racist, particularly one >>> who brought racism into the conversation in the first place. >>> >>> I thought it was funny, and that's all that matters. If you don't like >>> it, I suggest you touch grass. >>> >>> I'm going to start blocking you idiots. >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 9:38 AM craig mcgee < >>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> I have to admit I was confused by the statement Ian made. Joke or not, >>>> it wasn't funny. >>>> but this is as far as I will go on the matter as I don't wish to get >>>> involved in the freenet dispute. >>>> >>>> - Original Message - >>>> *From:* Russell Glenn >>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:33 PM >>>> *Subject:* Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >>>> >>>> Mr. Ian Clarke, >>>> >>>> when discussing your acquisition of a secondary domain, >>>> "freenet.org", for your highly controversial unilateral decision >>>> to rewrite the Freenet Project which has always been hosted >>>> on "freenetproject.org", you said the following: >>>> >>>> > Yeah, all of the provocatively racist domain names were taken anyway. >>>> >>>> Notice that this is a VERBATIM quote, and the email of yours did >>>> not contain ANY other content, nothing to reduce the gravity of >>>> this statement; the gravity of which cannot be reduced anyway. >>>> Proof: >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55336.html >>>> >>>> As a black person, but not only as such, I inform you that racism >>>> is NOT tolerable by any means whatsoever on this planet and will >>>> NEVER be. >>>> >>>> And before you attempt to dismiss this as a joke: >>>> Millions of people died due to racism. >>>> You, especially as a white person, are not entitled to joke about that. >>>> Nobody is. >>>> >>>> And this piles onto the provable falsehoods and other insults you have >>>> produced on this list in the previous days. >>>> >>>> Therefore, it is my duty to jo
Trolls will be removed from mailing list
Just a note, Russell Glenn (or whoever he is) has been removed from this mailing list, I have zero tolerance for trolls who throw around false accusations of racism, or who harass people (Russell is the idiot who spammed the Locutus Matrix room). Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
Woke virtue signaling noted. I don't care whether you find it funny. I'm not seeking your approval. On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 11:12 AM craig mcgee < craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: > Ian, > I didn't say your statement was racist, just that I didnt find it funny, > that's all. I gathered it was made as a joke, but just wanted to state my > opposition to racism, as russel requested, and leave it at that. > > - Original Message - > *From:* Ian Clarke > *To:* devl@freenetproject.org > *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 5:07 PM > *Subject:* Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list > > Only a midwit idiot would think that remark was racist, particularly one > who brought racism into the conversation in the first place. > > I thought it was funny, and that's all that matters. If you don't like it, > I suggest you touch grass. > > I'm going to start blocking you idiots. > > On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 9:38 AM craig mcgee < > craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: > >> I have to admit I was confused by the statement Ian made. Joke or not, it >> wasn't funny. >> but this is as far as I will go on the matter as I don't wish to get >> involved in the freenet dispute. >> >> - Original Message - >> *From:* Russell Glenn >> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >> *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:33 PM >> *Subject:* Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list >> >> Mr. Ian Clarke, >> >> when discussing your acquisition of a secondary domain, >> "freenet.org", for your highly controversial unilateral decision >> to rewrite the Freenet Project which has always been hosted >> on "freenetproject.org", you said the following: >> >> > Yeah, all of the provocatively racist domain names were taken anyway. >> >> Notice that this is a VERBATIM quote, and the email of yours did >> not contain ANY other content, nothing to reduce the gravity of >> this statement; the gravity of which cannot be reduced anyway. >> Proof: https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55336.html >> >> As a black person, but not only as such, I inform you that racism >> is NOT tolerable by any means whatsoever on this planet and will >> NEVER be. >> >> And before you attempt to dismiss this as a joke: >> Millions of people died due to racism. >> You, especially as a white person, are not entitled to joke about that. >> Nobody is. >> >> And this piles onto the provable falsehoods and other insults you have >> produced on this list in the previous days. >> >> Therefore, it is my duty to join the ranks of people who request >> you to: >> * immediately step down as leader of the Freenet Project and >> * leave its board and >> * transfer ownership of the domains to the Freenet developer team and >> * transfer ownership of all other related accounts and >> * cease to use the name "Freenet" for any of your new projects. >> >> Racists, or those who joke about racism, do not belong into positions >> where power is wielded. >> >> As you have failed to prove that the board of the project is still >> constructed of active members of the community, >> and not of those who have been inactive for decades as Mr. Daigniere >> stated, >> I join those who request leadership is transferred to the >> leading developer. >> To my knowledge, this is Mr. Babenhauserheide. >> >> Should he not accept the position, I would vouch for the previous lead >> developer Mr. Dougherty, or anyone of the choice of the two. >> >> Finally, I urgently implore anyone who reads this email to state >> their support. We must stand united against racism. >> >> - Russell Glenn >> >> > > -- > Ian Clarke > Founder, The Freenet Project > Email: i...@freenet.org > > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list
Only a midwit idiot would think that remark was racist, particularly one who brought racism into the conversation in the first place. I thought it was funny, and that's all that matters. If you don't like it, I suggest you touch grass. I'm going to start blocking you idiots. On Sun, Jan 22, 2023 at 9:38 AM craig mcgee < craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: > I have to admit I was confused by the statement Ian made. Joke or not, it > wasn't funny. > but this is as far as I will go on the matter as I don't wish to get > involved in the freenet dispute. > > - Original Message - > *From:* Russell Glenn > *To:* devl@freenetproject.org > *Sent:* Sunday, January 22, 2023 3:33 PM > *Subject:* Racist statement of Ian Clarke on this list > > Mr. Ian Clarke, > > when discussing your acquisition of a secondary domain, > "freenet.org", for your highly controversial unilateral decision > to rewrite the Freenet Project which has always been hosted > on "freenetproject.org", you said the following: > > > Yeah, all of the provocatively racist domain names were taken anyway. > > Notice that this is a VERBATIM quote, and the email of yours did > not contain ANY other content, nothing to reduce the gravity of > this statement; the gravity of which cannot be reduced anyway. > Proof: https://www.mail-archive.com/devl@freenetproject.org/msg55336.html > > As a black person, but not only as such, I inform you that racism > is NOT tolerable by any means whatsoever on this planet and will > NEVER be. > > And before you attempt to dismiss this as a joke: > Millions of people died due to racism. > You, especially as a white person, are not entitled to joke about that. > Nobody is. > > And this piles onto the provable falsehoods and other insults you have > produced on this list in the previous days. > > Therefore, it is my duty to join the ranks of people who request > you to: > * immediately step down as leader of the Freenet Project and > * leave its board and > * transfer ownership of the domains to the Freenet developer team and > * transfer ownership of all other related accounts and > * cease to use the name "Freenet" for any of your new projects. > > Racists, or those who joke about racism, do not belong into positions > where power is wielded. > > As you have failed to prove that the board of the project is still > constructed of active members of the community, > and not of those who have been inactive for decades as Mr. Daigniere > stated, > I join those who request leadership is transferred to the > leading developer. > To my knowledge, this is Mr. Babenhauserheide. > > Should he not accept the position, I would vouch for the previous lead > developer Mr. Dougherty, or anyone of the choice of the two. > > Finally, I urgently implore anyone who reads this email to state > their support. We must stand united against racism. > > - Russell Glenn > > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Ongoing harassment
Yeah, all of the provocatively racist domain names were taken anyway. On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 5:30 PM craig mcgee < craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: > its not even much of a change, i mean id understand if the name got > changed to something provocatively racist or something, that wouldnt be on, > but freenet to freenet classic, oh god! how will I cope with that change? > > - Original Message - > *From:* Ian Clarke > *To:* devl@freenetproject.org > *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 11:27 PM > *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment > > I know, you'd think the world was ending. > > On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 5:25 PM craig mcgee < > craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: > >> wow, all over a name change!! >> >> - Original Message - >> *From:* Ian Clarke >> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 11:20 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment >> >> We're changing the name of the original 23-year-old Freenet software to >> "Freenet Classic", and a new Freenet is under development, see: >> https://freenet.org/ >> >> A small number of people disagree with this decision and have been >> throwing a very immature tantrum about it. They will tire themselves out >> soon enough. >> >> See the recent announcement thread on this list for details. >> >> Ian. >> >> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 3:50 PM craig mcgee < >> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >> >>> so whats this harrasment. this is the first ive heard of it. >>> people who prefer protonmail to freenet or something? not sure why >>> people need to harrass others over that, "which project is better or more >>> privacy protecting" why cant people just discuss it like adults and have a >>> debate? >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> *From:* Ian Clarke >>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 9:46 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment >>> >>> True. >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:40 PM craig mcgee < >>> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >>> >>>> maybe they want to unsubscribe. the mailing list doesnt seem to have >>>> any method of doing that, to be fair. >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message - >>>> *From:* Ian Clarke >>>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 9:39 PM >>>> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment >>>> >>>> You're on a mailing list. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:28 PM Bernd Oswald wrote: >>>> >>>>> No emails please >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail >>>>> gesendet. >>>>> Am 21.01.23, 19:57 schrieb Ian Clarke : >>>>> >>>>>> I've just learned that the juvenile harassment campaign has now >>>>>> extended to some of the project's donors. They are 100% supportive of me >>>>>> and the project. >>>>>> >>>>>> To the person or persons doing this: >>>>>> >>>>>>- ProtonMail and similar centralized tools don't protect your >>>>>>anonymity >>>>>> >>>>>>- If necessary, I will contact your local police force about your >>>>>>behavior >>>>>> >>>>>>- I may hire a lawyer in your jurisdiction to make an example of >>>>>>you >>>>>> >>>>>> Grow up. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ian. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org >>>>>> >>>>> >> >> -- >> Ian Clarke >> Founder, The Freenet Project >> Email: i...@freenet.org >> >> > > -- > Ian Clarke > Founder, The Freenet Project > Email: i...@freenet.org > > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Ongoing harassment
I know, you'd think the world was ending. On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 5:25 PM craig mcgee < craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: > wow, all over a name change!! > > - Original Message - > *From:* Ian Clarke > *To:* devl@freenetproject.org > *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 11:20 PM > *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment > > We're changing the name of the original 23-year-old Freenet software to > "Freenet Classic", and a new Freenet is under development, see: > https://freenet.org/ > > A small number of people disagree with this decision and have been > throwing a very immature tantrum about it. They will tire themselves out > soon enough. > > See the recent announcement thread on this list for details. > > Ian. > > On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 3:50 PM craig mcgee < > craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: > >> so whats this harrasment. this is the first ive heard of it. >> people who prefer protonmail to freenet or something? not sure why people >> need to harrass others over that, "which project is better or more privacy >> protecting" why cant people just discuss it like adults and have a debate? >> >> - Original Message - >> *From:* Ian Clarke >> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 9:46 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment >> >> True. >> >> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:40 PM craig mcgee < >> craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: >> >>> maybe they want to unsubscribe. the mailing list doesnt seem to have any >>> method of doing that, to be fair. >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> *From:* Ian Clarke >>> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 9:39 PM >>> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment >>> >>> You're on a mailing list. >>> >>> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:28 PM Bernd Oswald wrote: >>> >>>> No emails please >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail >>>> gesendet. >>>> Am 21.01.23, 19:57 schrieb Ian Clarke : >>>> >>>>> I've just learned that the juvenile harassment campaign has now >>>>> extended to some of the project's donors. They are 100% supportive of me >>>>> and the project. >>>>> >>>>> To the person or persons doing this: >>>>> >>>>>- ProtonMail and similar centralized tools don't protect your >>>>>anonymity >>>>> >>>>>- If necessary, I will contact your local police force about your >>>>>behavior >>>>> >>>>>- I may hire a lawyer in your jurisdiction to make an example of >>>>>you >>>>> >>>>> Grow up. >>>>> >>>>> Ian. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ian Clarke >>>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>>> Email: i...@freenet.org >>>>> >>>> > > -- > Ian Clarke > Founder, The Freenet Project > Email: i...@freenet.org > > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Ongoing harassment
We're changing the name of the original 23-year-old Freenet software to "Freenet Classic", and a new Freenet is under development, see: https://freenet.org/ A small number of people disagree with this decision and have been throwing a very immature tantrum about it. They will tire themselves out soon enough. See the recent announcement thread on this list for details. Ian. On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 3:50 PM craig mcgee < craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: > so whats this harrasment. this is the first ive heard of it. > people who prefer protonmail to freenet or something? not sure why people > need to harrass others over that, "which project is better or more privacy > protecting" why cant people just discuss it like adults and have a debate? > > - Original Message - > *From:* Ian Clarke > *To:* devl@freenetproject.org > *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 9:46 PM > *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment > > True. > > On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:40 PM craig mcgee < > craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: > >> maybe they want to unsubscribe. the mailing list doesnt seem to have any >> method of doing that, to be fair. >> >> - Original Message - >> *From:* Ian Clarke >> *To:* devl@freenetproject.org >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 9:39 PM >> *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment >> >> You're on a mailing list. >> >> On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:28 PM Bernd Oswald wrote: >> >>> No emails please >>> >>> -- >>> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail >>> gesendet. >>> Am 21.01.23, 19:57 schrieb Ian Clarke : >>> >>>> I've just learned that the juvenile harassment campaign has now >>>> extended to some of the project's donors. They are 100% supportive of me >>>> and the project. >>>> >>>> To the person or persons doing this: >>>> >>>> - ProtonMail and similar centralized tools don't protect your >>>> anonymity >>>> >>>>- If necessary, I will contact your local police force about your >>>>behavior >>>> >>>>- I may hire a lawyer in your jurisdiction to make an example of >>>>you >>>> >>>> Grow up. >>>> >>>> Ian. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ian Clarke >>>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>>> Email: i...@freenet.org >>>> >>> -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Ongoing harassment
True. On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:40 PM craig mcgee < craig.mc...@guilt-management.org.uk> wrote: > maybe they want to unsubscribe. the mailing list doesnt seem to have any > method of doing that, to be fair. > > - Original Message ----- > *From:* Ian Clarke > *To:* devl@freenetproject.org > *Sent:* Saturday, January 21, 2023 9:39 PM > *Subject:* Re: Ongoing harassment > > You're on a mailing list. > > On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:28 PM Bernd Oswald wrote: > >> No emails please >> >> -- >> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail >> gesendet. >> Am 21.01.23, 19:57 schrieb Ian Clarke : >> >>> I've just learned that the juvenile harassment campaign has now extended >>> to some of the project's donors. They are 100% supportive of me and the >>> project. >>> >>> To the person or persons doing this: >>> >>>- ProtonMail and similar centralized tools don't protect your >>>anonymity >>> >>>- If necessary, I will contact your local police force about your >>>behavior >>> >>>- I may hire a lawyer in your jurisdiction to make an example of you >>> >>> Grow up. >>> >>> Ian. >>> >>> -- >>> Ian Clarke >>> Founder, The Freenet Project >>> Email: i...@freenet.org >>> >>
Re: Ongoing harassment
You can unsubscribe here: https://ml.freenetproject.org/v1/ On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:28 PM Bernd Oswald wrote: > No emails please > > -- > Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail > gesendet. > Am 21.01.23, 19:57 schrieb Ian Clarke : > >> I've just learned that the juvenile harassment campaign has now extended >> to some of the project's donors. They are 100% supportive of me and the >> project. >> >> To the person or persons doing this: >> >>- ProtonMail and similar centralized tools don't protect your >>anonymity >> >>- If necessary, I will contact your local police force about your >>behavior >> >> - I may hire a lawyer in your jurisdiction to make an example of you >> >> Grow up. >> >> Ian. >> >> -- >> Ian Clarke >> Founder, The Freenet Project >> Email: i...@freenet.org >> >
Re: Ongoing harassment
You're on a mailing list. On Sat, Jan 21, 2023, 3:28 PM Bernd Oswald wrote: > No emails please > > -- > Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail > gesendet. > Am 21.01.23, 19:57 schrieb Ian Clarke : > >> I've just learned that the juvenile harassment campaign has now extended >> to some of the project's donors. They are 100% supportive of me and the >> project. >> >> To the person or persons doing this: >> >>- ProtonMail and similar centralized tools don't protect your >>anonymity >> >>- If necessary, I will contact your local police force about your >>behavior >> >> - I may hire a lawyer in your jurisdiction to make an example of you >> >> Grow up. >> >> Ian. >> >> -- >> Ian Clarke >> Founder, The Freenet Project >> Email: i...@freenet.org >> >
Ongoing harassment
I've just learned that the juvenile harassment campaign has now extended to some of the project's donors. They are 100% supportive of me and the project. To the person or persons doing this: - ProtonMail and similar centralized tools don't protect your anonymity - If necessary, I will contact your local police force about your behavior - I may hire a lawyer in your jurisdiction to make an example of you Grow up. Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 2:44 PM Marek Küthe wrote: > I have assumed that Freenet acts according to these principles and that > there are not just a few (or even one) people who make decisions about > Freenet. > If you assumed that Freenet had a terrible decision-making process that would lead to certain failure then you assumed incorrectly. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 2:22 PM Marek Küthe wrote: > Well, I think here one should decide between a company / organization > with profit intentions and a community / FLOSS project and an > non-profit association. > I disagree. The same principle applies to any common endeavor by a group of people. Organizations that make every decision to try to keep the most people happy always stagnate and die, as night follows day. You're proposing that a group of people with absolutely no competence in brand marketing make a complicated brand marketing decision. There is no universe in which that's a good idea. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
Organizations that put every decision to a vote stagnate and die, which is why no successful organization of any kind works that way. On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 2:06 PM Marek Küthe wrote: > Nice to see that the email arrived at the Mailling list :-) > > I personally have never run a business. However, I know this procedure > from the community network dn42, for example. To get larger resources > there, you have to ask the Mailling list for permission, for example. > > Codeberg.org for example offers the possibility of a paid membership. > In this membership you can vote on decisions. (Codeberg has implemented > a great token system for this). > > On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 14:01:56 -0600 > Ian Clarke wrote: > > > > > > > Only if the majority of the community agrees, this change should be > > > implemented > > > > > > Have you ever actually run a company, organization, or significant > project? > > It really doesn't sound like it. > > > > On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 1:59 PM Marek Küthe wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I am a Freenet user and also wanted to speak up. > > > > > > Since I have no position within Freenet, you can simply ignore > > > the email.. > > > > > > Everything I say here is my personal opinion. I do not want to > > > personally insult, abuse or otherwise verbally hurt anyone. If anyone > > > feels personally attacked, I am sorry. I will use the first names of > > > the persons in the following, because I consider this as usual in the > > > internet. I do not mean to imply that I disrespect anyone. > > > > > > 1) Major changes in a concept or in a program (I count the name change > > > to it) should be discussed in the Commuity. There should be factual > > > arguments exchanged. Only if the majority of the community agrees, this > > > change should be implemented. This is something that makes community > > > projects. Even if you don't count Freenet as a community project, the > > > current developers should agree. As far as I have noticed, this is > > > currently not Ian, but rather Arne. > > > > > > 2) Transparency is part of a good FLOSS project. Not giving information > > > about donations or decision making process is wrong. > > > > > > The process like the decision has not been presented transparently. It > > > was only said that privately over a longer period of time, with Arne > > > was spoken, but without his consent to achieve. > > > > > > Of course, it always depends on the project, but I know it so that > > > always first the opinions of several people are obtained before a > > > decision is discussed. As far as I have noticed, only Ian and Arne were > > > involved, which have referred to mutual points of view. In my opinion > > > it would have made sense (and still does) to get the opinions of more > > > people and make a decision based on that. If you don't want to ask any > > > person from the community, you can take for example every person who > > > has committed to the project in the last years. > > > > > > 3) I think the real identity of people does not count. Even a > > > pseudonymous person can be a member of a community. Their votes should > > > be counted the same as those of non-anonymous members. > > > > > > 4) > > > > > > a) I don't know if it's just my subjective perception: I think Ian > > > contradicts himself in parts of his statements. On the one hand he > > > says that he likes to answer questions, but he doesn't always > > > answer factually. > > > > > > b) Here's my feeling: Ian announced it on the Mailling list. There > > > was strong resistance to it. First there was factual discussion, > > > but when the arguments ran out, there were personal attacks. This > > > to me is a sign of desperation. > > > > > > 5) I think a name change will greatly confuse future users: > > > > > > a) There are many documentations (some of them very old) which are > > > not updated. If someone finds a documentation for Freenet and it is > > > about Fred and not about Locutus, this can lead to confusion. > > > > > > b) If no one from the community or the developers agrees, how > > > should something be implemented? As far as I can see, this would > > > rather mean that there will be a fork of the Freenet project. > > > > &
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
ision and thus the change will > ultimately be implemented by the developers of the software. If the > developers decide against it, there is a) the possibility to accept > this or b) to make a fork. With a) you can clearly see at Freenet that > the developers do not agree with it. b) could only make Ian. Then there > would be a Freenet with the developers, which is up to date and a > one-time snapshot from Ian with the name "Freenet Classic". If anyone > here sees another possibility, I would be interested. > > I would be happy if I am not called an "idiot", "child" or the like. > > Greetings > > -- > Marek Küthe > m...@mk16.de > er/ihm he/him > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 12:40 PM wrote: > I think I have the right to know how the money is being used, especially > since some of it was my donation. I have no idea who you are or what you've donated, but nothing gives you the right to ineptly try to bully me or anyone else with impertinent demands for information or insinuating financial improprieties in things you know absolutely nothing about. I'm not your butler or your babysitter, and I don't respond well to tantrums. I don't often block email addresses, but you're coming very close. You've been warned. Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
Who are you, and what on earth makes you think you have the right to demand any information from me? I really can't believe you people, the narcissism is off-the-charts. Are you all children? Seriously. On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 12:02 PM wrote: > Ian, > > I have read over the last responses and there seems to be some items > that I would like clarification on, as well as some comments I would > like to add as a community member, node volunteer, and supporter of the > Freenet "fred" project. > > DuckDuckGo donated $25,000 several years ago, that money has still not > been allocated or spent, will it be spend along with the $100,000 grant > given to Loculus? Where will that money go? > > While the charity called The Freenet Project is your baby and passion, > it seems a bit unorthodox to do the following: > > Have an 18 month private discussion with one dev, claim you disagree > with his objections and overrule them. > Go to the board, and claim this is happening, in secret, with no public > proof of any opposing views being debated or suggested (names can be > redacted and transcripts posted as Speaker #1) or at least minute notes > of these meetings. > Announce over a mailing list you have not posted to in months, let alone > to FMS or Sone, that this change is happening and it's happening now. > Limiting any other devs or community members to engage in discussion or > presenting valid alternatives. (like you state Arne doesn't speak for > everyone) > Demand code to be changed to update these changes, (I don't see a pull > request from you) and magically hope that all documentation including > unmaintained one will follow? (how do you expect abandoned freesites to > update their language?) > > Please place yourself into the shoes of the community you were expected > to represent and lead, and realize maybe there was some mistakes made > here and more discussion should be done. > > While the core of this issue is just a naming decision, and not your > leadership style or actions. There seems to be a 20 plus year common > understanding that Freenet is Fred, and Freenet Classic is Fred 0.5 when > the network forked. > > Locutus is a new software project that meets very similar goals as your > charity organization. Maybe it would be best to create a new > organization to support the management and funding of Locutus, instead > of doing what feels to many as a "rugpull" from Freenet's community and > support. > > I fear that even with your declaration, many users and devs will not > comply, and as Freenet is uncensorable, and development can continue > over itself. I wonder how you will deal with a rogue project (in your > eyes) stealing the name as it continues to operate against your wishes. > > Respectfully, > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
Russell, I'm not going to subject the other board members to the kind of infantile harassment I've been experiencing over the past two days, including anonymous cowards spamming the Locutus Matrix channel and then spamming individual members of the channel. Was that you? The non-profit will disclose such information in accordance with the law, and not at the demand of children throwing a tantrum. The decision was mine, the board concurred. There is nothing kind about the rest of your silly email. Grow up. Ian. On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 9:55 AM Russell Glenn wrote: > Dear Ian Clarke, > > I would kindly ask you for some clarifications here. > > (1) Florent Daigniere, a long standing contributor, said: > > > Bringing in "the board" in an argument of authority is an asshat > > move: As you know, none of its members have had any active > > involvement with the project nor its community for decades. In > > fact, looking at the list of subscribers to @devl, I highly doubt > > that any of them aside from you are on it; Prove me wrong, let > > them manifest themselves and defend what, so far, can only be > > seen as an unilateral move from you. > > To which your only reply was: > > > That's how non-profits work, their boards vote on important > > decisions. > > And the hypothetical board members did in fact not manifest > themselves. > > This seems like an admission that you unilaterally made this > decision. > And an additional proof is provided by the fact that the > board members did indeed not manifest themselves. > > Can you thus please: > > A) Tell us whether it is true that you were the only board member > involved in the decision. > > B) Tell us the names of the other board members and their mail > addresses. > > > (2) Your central argument in this thread seems to be that the > change is for the next generation of people. > > Someone said you are born 1977. > > By your own logic in this thread, where you copiously informed > the others that you think they should not speak for people whom > they do not represent, you would not be entitled to represent > the next generation: > You are not a member of it, in fact you are multiple generations > behind if you are born 1977. > > Thus, can you please tell us if it is true that you are born 1977? > > I send my kind regards, > > Russell Glenn > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 9:17 AM Juiceman wrote: > Speaking of steal: >>> >> https://trademarks.justia.com/874/39/freenet-87439977.html >>> >> >> Given that our use of the name predates their trademark by 18 years and >> has been in active use that entire time, I don't think this trademark is a >> concern. >> > > My only concern was someone was trading on Freenet's name with a similar > area of technology. > Ah, understood. My instinct is that it wouldn't be worth our time to do anything about it - but I'll give it some thought. Thanks for mentioning it. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 5:57 PM David Dernoncourt wrote: > >> Maybe that's how you intended it originally, but with the possible > exceptions of the devs who work on the depot named "fred" and maybe some > users who are really experts and die-hard on wording accuracy, what most > users call "Freenet" is that piece of software that you download from on > this page https://freenetproject.org/pages/download.html that begins with > "Download and install Freenet:" > > > > Firstly, you have no idea how most users of Fred feel about this > > change, so I hope you're not implying that they all agree with you. > > There is a lot of "argumentum ad populum" going on in this thread. > > People should speak for themselves. > > Where did I mention agreement to the change in what you quote? All I'm > saying is that the name "Freenet" is currently attached, in most people's > minds, to the particular software and not to "the mission". > There you go again, speaking on behalf of people you don't speak for. > I don't see how the naming in itself will be a game changer "for the next > generation". "The next generation" will adopt any product it deems as > "cool", even if it has a stupid name such as "TikTok" or "FTX". So as far > as they're concerned, the name doesn't even matter. So yeah, you could > rename as you say. You could also rename Locutus as Dicky-Doo-Dah. That's > not really where the problem lies. Just like Freenet (current) didn't fail > because of its name, Freenet (new) won't succeed thanks to of its name. > I'm not sure of your expertise, but I doubt it's in brand marketing. > However, what about the current generation? All 7.888 billion of them? You don't speak for them either. > Is it gently (or not so gently) being told to sod off? I'd like to know, > cause stopping a few servers here and there would mean fewer bills to pay. > If you think you can get your way by threatening to stop contributing then you don't know who you're talking to. Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenet.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
[resending, last one was sent from an old email address accidentally - I need to leave and rejoin this ML]. Firstly, you have no idea how most users of Fred feel about this change, so I hope you're not implying that they all agree with you. There is a lot of "argumentum ad populum" going on in this thread. People should speak for themselves. But more importantly, let's pretend that every single Fred user disagreed with changing "Freenet" to "Freenet Classic". As I've already stated - the constituency I'm concerned with is the next generation. So if you've got a compelling factual argument for why you think not doing this will be better for the next generation, then I'm all ears. On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 4:47 PM David Dernoncourt wrote: > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023, at 19:32, Ian Clarke wrote: > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 11:08 AM David Dernoncourt > > wrote: > >> As "just a regular user" and node runner who just poked around a few > PRs, the main issues I have with this are 1) "what the Hell is Locutus" and > 2) wow that's confusing. > >> > >> Sure, 1) is just (mostly) a rhetorical question. But it seems quite an > unusual thing to "steal" the name of a software (even more so when said > software is still actively maintained) to stamp it on another software that > doesn't have any relationship with the other one beside being supported by > the same foundation and sharing the same (or a similar enough) mission > statement. > > > > That's not what's happening. The name always belonged to the *mission*, > > not to any particular piece of software. This is why we were careful > > not to tie it to any particular codebase when we wrote it: > > > > Maybe that's how you intended it originally, but with the possible > exceptions of the devs who work on the depot named "fred" and maybe some > users who are really experts and die-hard on wording accuracy, what most > users call "Freenet" is that piece of software that you download from on > this page https://freenetproject.org/pages/download.html that begins with > "Download and install Freenet:" > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Wed, Jan 18, 2023, 4:47 PM David Dernoncourt wrote: > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023, at 19:32, Ian Clarke wrote: > > That's not what's happening. The name always belonged to the *mission*, > > not to any particular piece of software. This is why we were careful > > not to tie it to any particular codebase when we wrote it: > > Maybe that's how you intended it originally, but with the possible > exceptions of the devs who work on the depot named "fred" and maybe some > users who are really experts and die-hard on wording accuracy, what most > users call "Freenet" is that piece of software that you download from on > this page https://freenetproject.org/pages/download.html that begins with > "Download and install Freenet:" > Firstly, you have no idea how most users of Fred feel about this change, so I hope you're not implying that they all agree with you. There is a lot of "argumentum ad populum" going on in this thread. People should speak for themselves. But more importantly, let's pretend that every single Fred user disagreed with changing "Freenet" to "Freenet Classic". As I've already stated - the constituency I'm concerned with is the next generation. So if you've got a compelling factual argument for why you think not doing this will be better for the next generation, then I'm all ears. Ian.
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 2:12 PM Freenet304987 wrote: > Ian Clarke wrote: > > The name - which I came up with - never belonged to one codebase, it > > belonged to the mission. This was the case from the beginning, which > > is precisely why our mission statement didn't mention any specific > > implementation. > > You are stuck in the past. > > Things you did 24 years ago do not grant you free reign forever. > You've been absent for over a decade, Freenet has moved on. > Thank you, anonymous person I have no idea who you are, for telling me all about the project I started. Michael is right, this now seems to be more about you venting and having an overinflated ego than advancing the interests of the project. Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 11:11 AM Juiceman wrote: > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023, 12:08 PM David Dernoncourt > wrote: > >> As "just a regular user" and node runner who just poked around a few PRs, >> the main issues I have with this are 1) "what the Hell is Locutus" and 2) >> wow that's confusing. >> >> Sure, 1) is just (mostly) a rhetorical question. But it seems quite an >> unusual thing to "steal" the name of a software (even more so when said >> software is still actively maintained) to stamp it on another software that >> doesn't have any relationship with the other one beside being supported by >> the same foundation and sharing the same (or a similar enough) mission >> statement. >> > > Speaking of steal: > https://trademarks.justia.com/874/39/freenet-87439977.html > Given that our use of the name predates their trademark by 18 years and has been in active use that entire time, I don't think this trademark is a concern. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 11:08 AM David Dernoncourt wrote: > As "just a regular user" and node runner who just poked around a few PRs, > the main issues I have with this are 1) "what the Hell is Locutus" and 2) > wow that's confusing. > > Sure, 1) is just (mostly) a rhetorical question. But it seems quite an > unusual thing to "steal" the name of a software (even more so when said > software is still actively maintained) to stamp it on another software that > doesn't have any relationship with the other one beside being supported by > the same foundation and sharing the same (or a similar enough) mission > statement. > That's not what's happening. The name always belonged to the *mission*, not to any particular piece of software. This is why we were careful not to tie it to any particular codebase when we wrote it: *The specific purpose of this corporation is to assist in developing and disseminating technological solutions to further the open and democratic distribution of information over the Internet or its successor electronic communication networks or organizations. It is also the purpose of this organization to guarantee consenting individuals the free, unmediated, and unimpeded reception and impartation of all intellectual, scientific, literary, social, artistic, creative, human rights, and cultural expressions, opinions and ideas without interference or limitation by or service to state, private, or special interests. It is also the purpose of this organization to educate the world community and be an advocate of these purposes.* > As far as suggestions go, even though (if it's not obvious) I don't > support this change either (I would rather prefer, for instance, "Freenet > Locutus" vs "Freenet Classic", dropping "Freenet [period]" instead of > hijacking it), my suggestion would be to find a way to make it crystal > clear that names were swapped and to point out clearly and concisely the > key differences between the "old" Freenet and the "new" one. > My intention is that the websites will make this *very* clear, people looking for Fred will find Fred, people looking for Locutus will find Locutus. There is risk, as I said, but there is risk in every non-trivial decision. Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
More information on Locutus
A number of people have said that they haven't heard much about Locutus, so here are some pointers: - A video <https://youtu.be/x9g018OYwb4> introduction to Locutus from July 2022 - A video <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9g018OYwb4> interview I did with Louis Rossmann (a popular YouTuber) in September 2022 - A Matrix <https://matrix.to/#/%23freenet-locutus:matrix.org> chat room where interested people and developers discuss Locutus - A detailed roadmap <https://www.pivotaltracker.com/n/projects/2477110> for the next few months of development - The Locutus code <https://github.com/freenet/locutus> Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 11:40 AM Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > > Ian Clarke writes: > > What "room"? I've already said, the constituency I care about is the > next generation. You don't speak for them. > > You do not care about the currently existing, vibrant Freenet Community? > I care about the maintainers and users of Fred, and I've said I do - this is why I've been discussing this with you for the last 18 months to ensure that I gave your perspective a fair hearing, even if I ultimately didn't agree with it. Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 11:05 AM Freenet304987 wrote: > Ian Clarke wrote: > > You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't agree. > > That's another grave misunderstanding: > This is not "my" opinion. > Yes it is. > The core of it is the opinion of **EVERYONE** in this room, > Nobody wants your forced theft of the project's name, > not even a minority! > What "room"? I've already said, the constituency I care about is the next generation. You don't speak for them. > You're acting like King Joffrey in GoT where he is completely > isolated and proceeds to scream "I AM THE KING!!!" > Don't be silly. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 10:55 AM Freenet304987 wrote: > Ian Clarke wrote: > That's fine. > But you absolutely do **not** have to steal the name of an existing > software for that. > The name - which I came up with - never belonged to one codebase, it belonged to the mission. This was the case from the beginning, which is precisely why our mission statement didn't mention any specific implementation. > Millions of software projects were able to come up with a unique > and good name, so can you. > I did, 24 years ago. > You say you're against technology being a force of oppression. > And you do that in the same thread where you're trying to oppress > the people who have been running your software project for > decades, for free. > Don't be silly, me not doing what you think I should do isn't "oppression". > This is beyond ungrateful. > It is utterly vile and you should be ashamed. > I'm happy to hear different perspectives, but this melodramatic language helps nobody. Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 9:40 AM Florent Daigniere < florent-free...@daigniere.com> wrote: > I'll help answer that one: He is a long-standing volunteer who is one of > the current Release Managers; He has also been helping me with system > administration for the project and still has access to most systems to > this day. > > The fact that you are not aware of it just goes to show how disconnected > you are from the community. > I know exactly who he is, I was asking who he was speaking on behalf of since he was claiming to speak on behalf of the "Freenet community", quite a bold claim. > Bringing in "the board" in an argument of authority is an asshat move: > That's how non-profits work, their boards vote on important decisions. Regardless of the outcome I can't help but think that this should have > been handled better. > Perhaps, but pleasing everyone isn't and was never my job. The constituency I'm concerned with are the children growing up today facing a world where technology is a force of oppression and control, not a force for good. Business as usual hasn't addressed this and won't address it, that's why I'm doing something about it. Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
You're entitled to your opinion, but I don't agree. On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 9:33 AM Freenet304987 wrote: > Ian, > > for over 10 years, I have been a member of the Freenet community, too. > > You have some grave misunderstandings which I would like to clear up. > > They concern: > - what you think you're entitled to do vs. what you actually are. > - what you think your personal qualities are vs. the actual ones. > - *especially* what you think the consequences of forcing this > through will be vs. what they actually will be. > - what Freenet needs. > > You seem to believe that by inventing Freenet, you own it and can do > whatever you want with it forever. > > You discovered its math, which is great, but that does not make > you the owner of the math, math has no owner. > > Instead, Freenet, like any other open source software, is a meritocracy. > > You have not contributed **any** useful merit for well over 10 years. > You do not write code. > You do not regularly communicate with the team. > You do not even talk to the users on Freenet itself. > And I am fairly confident you haven't even used Freenet in ages. > Typically, you are only one thing: absent for years. > Then all you do is burst into the "room" every once in a while, tell > everyone that what they're doing is garbage, and boss them around. > > Hence you're **not** entitled to use the name Freenet like you want to. > The people who have been writing the code for the past decades are. > > > Which brings us to your qualities: > > Yes, by having a dominant, pushy character, you are good at acquiring > funding. > But unfortunately, this is also what is called narcissism. > You are the absolutely stereotypical manager which annoys everyone > who does the **actual** work. > You are not just bad at helping a team of developers, but you're > actually **so bad** that the only thing you do is interrupt them. > > Let's talk about the elephant in the room: > Nobody on the core team likes you. > None. > They only don't say this because they're afraid of your outbursts. > You're an obstacle to them, and have been for a long time. > > The only reason you haven't been banned yet is that migrating > the infrastructure would have been detrimental to Freenet's users and > a waste of time. > But this only applies up to a certain level of misbehavior. > > > So while you think you can just force the developers to do what you > want, what will actually happen is this: > They'll treat you as a malicious actor, an attacker, like any other > open source project would do, and fork the project - under the > **original** name. > Because Freenet aims to prevent censorship. > That includes censorship of Freenet itself. > > They will publicly discredit you, and you'll be known **not** as the > great leader you think you are, but just another person who turned > evil. > Look at how everyone hates Elon Musk, that's you, just with less money. > > > Finally, let's talk about what Freenet needs: > Freenet needs not your vision, but to be left alone by you. > While you have been rambling here, Arne has merged dozens and dozens > of pull requests, some of which are the 70th (!) part of continous work. > Yes, it is a 20 years old codebase. > But it has people who understand it, and who work to resolve its issues. > People who have been working on it for **decades**. > You sully their great efforts with your belief that you'd somehow still > "own" Freenet. > > The patience to merge the 70th part of a branch, **as a volunteer** > is ridiculously valuable and **not** something you can provide. > **Especially** not something you should tamper with and mess up. > > Once your fancy new project is at the point where Freenet is now, it > will be in the same situation: > Rust won't be the cool toy of the day anymore, and someone will urge > to rewrite it. Yet another 20 years wasted. > The rewrite-treadmill is futile and must be avoided. > > > Please do everyone a favor and step down as leader and transfer > leadership to Arne who does the actual work. > > Stick to acquiring money for Locutus. > Have fun with Locutus, nobody asks you to stop. > But do **NOT** abuse the merit and name of the Freenet community to > advertise Locutus. > You did not add to Freenet's merit in a long time, so it is not your > property. > > Locutus must have its own name and its own infrastructure. > Move it to its own domain and GitHub with a different name than > "Freenet". > You do not deserve to use the name Freenet. > > > Sent with Proton Mail secure email. > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 4:53 AM Marco A. Calamari wrote: Hi Marco, I hope you are well. But in fact, I too do not understand the total silence on this subject on > all Freenet lists, including announce, before you mail. > As I said, I have been discussing this with Arne for 18 months to ensure I understood the perspective of those likely to oppose it. Making this a public debate would have created far more heat than light because branding is an inherently subjective issue. If it were an architectural question a different approach would be appropriate. > IMHO it will be useful, and more polite too, to send some post here with > link to your video and public Locutus documents. > All relevant information on Locutus is available at https://freenet.org/ - I'm surprised that this hasn't been more widely discussed among Fred users, none of it has been a secret. I've done interviews about it on popular YouTube channels. > P.S. any trip to Italy in the near future? > None planned but I'd love to get back there someday, nice to hear from you Marco. Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 11:49 PM Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > > Ian Clarke writes: > > Apologies to mutt users, but Freenet's mainstream brand recognition has > been on an uninterrupted > > downward trajectory since 2004: > > > > freenet-trend.png > > You are showing the US-trend. Let’s look at the trend in a country where > there was PR done: > I'm glad to see it, people searching for Freenet will arrive at either freenetproject.org or freenet.org - which will direct them to freenetproject.org if they are looking for Fred. Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 5:24 PM wrote: Thank you for your mostly reasonable response :) On January 17, 2023 11:01:39 PM UTC, Ian Clarke > wrote: > >I greatly appreciate the work you and the other maintainers have put into > >Fred, which is why I took the time to listen to your concerns over the > past > >18 months. > > Is the a public place to review these, or FMS posts I have missed? > They were one-on-one emails between Arne and myself, although I had assumed he would keep interested parties abreast of our conversation, at least at a high level. I didn't ask him to keep anything a secret. > >In my view and that of the board, Locutus is the best hope to achieve > >Freenet's mission, given everything I know in 2023. That's not to say that > >Locutus will replace Fred, it will not - because they serve different > >needs. But Fred is a 23-year-old codebase, and the world is very different > >from the world I saw when I started it, as is technology. > > > >I don't want conflict with you or the core maintainers, but the decision > >has been made. > > Being authoritarian, especially in secret tends to cause conflict. > There was no secrecy, Arne was the person I thought most likely to disagree and I sought his feedback starting 18 months ago. In the end, I was unpersuaded by his argument, but that doesn't make me an authoritarian. My job is to achieve the project's mission, I can't do that if everyone gets a veto, that would be an abdication of my responsibility. What I can do is hear people out, which is what I did with Arne. Perhaps it was an incorrect assumption that Arne would relay our discussions to other interested parties, in which case I apologize. >Fighting it is only going to consume time, resources, emotion, and > >attention that distracts from the goals that I know drive all of us. > > This is where I don't understand, and thus disagree. > Renaming Fred to Freenet Classic will take time and resources, as will > renaming Locutus to Freenet. It seems like a way to gather all the positive branding and support the > existing Freenet community has generated and built. Apologies to mutt users, but Freenet's mainstream brand recognition has been on an uninterrupted downward trajectory since 2004: [image: freenet-trend.png] I don't say this to disrespect Fred, but the value of "Freenet" as a brand is in the fact that it literally describes our mission better than any other name I've been able to come up with, the value is not in its current mainstream brand recognition - which is zero. > Would it not be better to also not confuse future users, they will > probably stumble on outdated references for years to come? This change > seems counterproductive with very limited benefit. I fail to see how > keeping Locutus as Locutus is more risky and less rewarding? > I don't think people are confused by the concept of a sequel, just look at Terminator 2 or Aliens. This is the same thing, just software not movies. The websites will mutually link to each other, so any confusion will be resolved rapidly upon visiting either website. Like I said, there is risk - but in my view, the risk of inaction is greater, and we may not have much more time in which to try. I need to give it my best shot. Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
Arne, I greatly appreciate the work you and the other maintainers have put into Fred, which is why I took the time to listen to your concerns over the past 18 months. The bottom line is that after hearing you out, I simply don't agree with you. In particular, I do not believe that the proposed changes will harm Fred, but rather, Fred should get a significant boost from the attention Locutus will receive if we are successful. There is no question that there is risk, but there is risk in every decision. My primary concern is for the next generation, who may ask me in 30 years if I did everything in my power to keep the Internet a force for freedom rather than oppression. This has always been the core mission of Freenet, not any specific codebase or feature set. *We are losing this battle, and we need to take action before it is lost*. Nobody gets a veto over this, not even Fred's maintainers or members of the current user base, value them as I do. In my view and that of the board, Locutus is the best hope to achieve Freenet's mission, given everything I know in 2023. That's not to say that Locutus will replace Fred, it will not - because they serve different needs. But Fred is a 23-year-old codebase, and the world is very different from the world I saw when I started it, as is technology. I don't want conflict with you or the core maintainers, but the decision has been made. Fighting it is only going to consume time, resources, emotion, and attention that distracts from the goals that I know drive all of us. Ian. On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:15 PM Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > > Ian Clarke writes: > > You're speaking as if you speak on behalf of the Freenet community. Who > specifically are you speaking for and what gives you the ability to speak > for > > them? > > I share the sentiment. Steve spoke to me before sending this message, > and he also speaks for me, the release manager of Freenet. Also David, > Florent, and xor disagree strongly with the renaming plan. These are > most of the non-anonymous core developers of Freenet. > > And the actual Freenet community that communicates on Freenet via FMS > and Sone is absolutely enraged over this. > > Best wishes, > Arne > > > On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 2:46 PM Steve Dougherty > wrote: > > I'm surprised. I'm not sure what to say, or what reaction you and the > > rest of the board expected. > > > > This is another demonstration of a complete disconnect between the board > > of FPI, and the community around Freenet. After giving up initial plans > > to name Locutus "Freenet 2" in the face of backlash, you and the rest of > > the board appear to now want still more of Freenet's brand recognition. > > The hope seems to be that the Freenet community, having not been > > consulted, and reasonably assumed to disagree, will undertake the effort > > to rename themselves the Freenet Classic community. > > > > I don't think this will happen. It would require buy-in, and it has > > none. > > > > - Steve > > > -- > Unpolitisch sein > heißt politisch sein, > ohne es zu merken. > draketo.de > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
Board discussions are confidential, this is common practice for non-profits so that board members can speak freely. I'm happy to answer any questions you have about this decision. The grant from FUTO last year was hardly <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoV9amsnaQg> a secret, the video about it had over 21,000 views. On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:35 PM wrote: > Hi, > > As a non-contributor of code, but running nodes, and donating > occasionally. How can I view the discussion that the board had? All I can > find public tax documents that they received over $100,000 this year in > donations. There is no board meeting minutes or mailing list (or paper > trail) > > An anti-censorship project should be more transparent. > > Thanks, > > On January 17, 2023 10:06:51 PM UTC, "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" < > arne_...@web.de> wrote: > > > >Ian Clarke writes: > >> You're speaking as if you speak on behalf of the Freenet community. Who > specifically are you speaking for and what gives you the ability to speak > for > >> them? > > > >I share the sentiment. Steve spoke to me before sending this message, > >and he also speaks for me, the release manager of Freenet. Also David, > >Florent, and xor disagree strongly with the renaming plan. These are > >most of the non-anonymous core developers of Freenet. > > > >And the actual Freenet community that communicates on Freenet via FMS > >and Sone is absolutely enraged over this. > > > >Best wishes, > >Arne > > > >> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 2:46 PM Steve Dougherty > wrote: > >> I'm surprised. I'm not sure what to say, or what reaction you and the > >> rest of the board expected. > >> > >> This is another demonstration of a complete disconnect between the > board > >> of FPI, and the community around Freenet. After giving up initial plans > >> to name Locutus "Freenet 2" in the face of backlash, you and the rest > of > >> the board appear to now want still more of Freenet's brand recognition. > >> The hope seems to be that the Freenet community, having not been > >> consulted, and reasonably assumed to disagree, will undertake the > effort > >> to rename themselves the Freenet Classic community. > >> > >> I don't think this will happen. It would require buy-in, and it has > >> none. > >> > >> - Steve > > > > > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
Steve, You're speaking as if you speak on behalf of the Freenet community. Who specifically are you speaking for and what gives you the ability to speak for them? Ian. On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 2:46 PM Steve Dougherty wrote: > Hi Ian, > > I'm surprised. I'm not sure what to say, or what reaction you and the > rest of the board expected. > > This is another demonstration of a complete disconnect between the board > of FPI, and the community around Freenet. After giving up initial plans > to name Locutus "Freenet 2" in the face of backlash, you and the rest of > the board appear to now want still more of Freenet's brand recognition. > The hope seems to be that the Freenet community, having not been > consulted, and reasonably assumed to disagree, will undertake the effort > to rename themselves the Freenet Classic community. > > I don't think this will happen. It would require buy-in, and it has > none. > > - Steve > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Important Announcement: Freenet naming change
Dear Freenet users and developers, I hope this email finds you well. I am writing to inform you of an important change that the Freenet Project board voted on unanimously on Friday. After much discussion over the past 18 months, we have decided to rename the codebase and software known internally as "Fred," to "Freenet Classic." In addition, we are announcing that the new codebase, known internally as "Locutus," will be renamed to "Freenet." We understand that this is a big change and it carries risk, but the board believes that this risk is necessary in order to further the project's mission. It is important to note that this change does *not* mean that Locutus is replacing Fred, which solves related but different problems. We will ensure that where Fred is the appropriate tool for people they will be directed to it. Freenetproject.org will remain focused on Fred while linking to Locutus - as it has been for over two decades - while freenet.org will place more emphasis on Locutus, while still linking to Fred. We will be implementing these changes over the coming days and weeks and would be grateful for your ideas and suggestions on how best to do this. Thank you, Ian -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Google Summer of Code 2021?
Hey guys, sorry for the delay in replying. I think we should do this, however I'm concerned I may have limited time to handle administrative tasks related to it. Could someone else (Arne?) have primary responsibility for managing it - and I will assist where necessary? Ian. On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 5:56 AM Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Hi, > > Registration for Google Summer of Code 2021 for Organizations is open. > Will we take part? > > https://summerofcode.withgoogle.com/ > > We need an „official representative“ of the project to register, which > would be Ian? > > I started a list of interesting tasks in the wiki and on a Freesite > https://github.com/freenet/wiki/wiki/Google-Summer-of-Code-2021 > USK@1e > ~oSIunnUl4nWEdyZBLjYMGt1IladVmY7GhXnfmHRw,hAhN74IAmm2Eo5Qkr6ZCEcG3MVBEexrbFXBp61W3jcI,AQACAAE/gsoc-2021/2/ > > The ones that I see as most impactful on the short term now that we have > a mobile app in FDroid (yay DC*!) are content filters for > - ogg opus, > - vp9, and > - av1 > > Those would make the upcoming in-browser streaming fast enough that > freesites can provide video-on-demand in HD-quality. > > In addition anything that can add features from icicles to the mobile > node: https://github.com/freenet-mobile/app > > Best wishes, > Arne > -- > Unpolitisch sein > heißt politisch sein > ohne es zu merken > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Bouncy Castle crypto authentication bypass vulnerability revealed
I doubt we're affected, but: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/bouncy-castle-crypto-authentication-bypass-vulnerability-revealed/ -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: 1489-pre1 test release
Great work Arne! On Sun, Nov 29, 2020 at 4:07 AM Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Hi, > > I created a test release for 1489: > https://github.com/freenet/fred/releases/tag/testing-build-1489-pre1 > CHK@2vnn7QNa49lJUC44Wp65w9 > ~HVOj07Qiv72yz-SJDxUw,owMWSbHR-WcuznWkbcYmFu8lzR3tp9ZFlAeIKjgHaA0,AAMC--8/freenet.jar > > > The main change compared too 1488 is that this release adds m3u filter > support. This enables streaming audio (ogg/mp3) and video (theora). > > > Since I did not announce the previous releases > here: The changes in previous releases were: > > 1488 updated translations. > > https://freenetproject.org/freenet-build-1487-released.html > https://freenetproject.org/freenet-build-1486-released.html > https://freenetproject.org/freenet-build-1485-released.html > > > Best wishes, > Arne > -- > Unpolitisch sein > heißt politisch sein > ohne es zu merken > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Bitcoin donation housekeeping and change of donation address for security reasons (website needs redeploy)
Thanks Arne, looks like it's updated so we're good. On Fri, Aug 21, 2020, 12:27 PM Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Hi Ian, > > The tag suffices, yes. If you don’t see your changes yet, this could be > due to caching. Just try it with a cache-busting parameter like: > https://freenetproject.org/pages/donate.html?somethingrandom > > Thank you! > > And also thank you for doing the paperwork and funds management! > > Best wishes, > Arne > > Ian Clarke writes: > > > Thanks Florent, I've created a new release > > < > https://github.com/freenet/website/releases/tag/new-btc-donation-address>, > > should that be sufficient? > > > > On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:14 AM Florent Daignière < > > nextg...@freenetproject.org> wrote: > > > >> Hi Ian, > >> > >> We already have some CI setup... each time you push on that repository, > >> it gets built/deployed by travis. > >> > >> Here's the job for your last commit: > >> https://travis-ci.org/github/freenet/website/builds/719980195 > >> > >> It goes live on > >> https://staging.freenetproject.org > >> > >> If you would like it to be promoted to the main website, you need to > >> push a tag (the tag's name doesn't matter). > >> > >> Florent > >> > >> > >> On Fri, 2020-08-21 at 11:02 -0500, Ian Clarke wrote: > >> > We've been using Blockchain.info to manage our Bitcoin donations, but > >> > we were using a legacy wallet which has limited backup and security > >> > precautions (Blockchain.info has evolved a lot since we started using > >> > it). > >> > > >> > So I've moved the funds to the primary Blockchain wallet to take full > >> > advantage of the various security precautions, I'm also transferring 2 > >> > BTC to Freenet Project Inc's US dollar account to reduce our exposure > >> > to the whims of Bitcoin fluctuations (but we still have plenty of BTC > >> > to benefit if the current rally continues). > >> > > >> > The old donation address will continue to work fine, however I've > >> > updated the donation address to: > >> > > >> > > >> > https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/12FNaL4XN1WRh4SHWXb8Gw2VvjkahqpJc7 > >> > > >> > Note this address begins with the number twelve, and ends with the > >> > number seven. I've updated the website accordingly via Github, would > >> > someone mind redeploying it? I haven't modified the website in a few > >> > years and am unfamiliar with the procedure (although we should > >> > investigate whether we can automate it through Github Actions). > >> > > >> > As an additional precaution, I've attached a terrible photo of me with > >> > the new BTC address. > >> > > >> > On a related note, I filed Freenet Project's taxes last week. As a > >> > nonprofit it doesn't need to pay tax, but unfortunately still needs to > >> > file the paperwork every year to maintain that status. > >> > > >> > Ian. > >> > > >> > > > -- > Unpolitisch sein > heißt politisch sein > ohne es zu merken >
Re: Bitcoin donation housekeeping and change of donation address for security reasons (website needs redeploy)
resend with correct From address: On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:37 AM Ian Clarke wrote: > Thanks Florent, I've created a new release > <https://github.com/freenet/website/releases/tag/new-btc-donation-address>, > should that be sufficient? > > On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:14 AM Florent Daignière < > nextg...@freenetproject.org> wrote: > >> Hi Ian, >> >> We already have some CI setup... each time you push on that repository, >> it gets built/deployed by travis. >> >> Here's the job for your last commit: >> https://travis-ci.org/github/freenet/website/builds/719980195 >> >> It goes live on >> https://staging.freenetproject.org >> >> If you would like it to be promoted to the main website, you need to >> push a tag (the tag's name doesn't matter). >> >> Florent >> >> >> On Fri, 2020-08-21 at 11:02 -0500, Ian Clarke wrote: >> > We've been using Blockchain.info to manage our Bitcoin donations, but >> > we were using a legacy wallet which has limited backup and security >> > precautions (Blockchain.info has evolved a lot since we started using >> > it). >> > >> > So I've moved the funds to the primary Blockchain wallet to take full >> > advantage of the various security precautions, I'm also transferring 2 >> > BTC to Freenet Project Inc's US dollar account to reduce our exposure >> > to the whims of Bitcoin fluctuations (but we still have plenty of BTC >> > to benefit if the current rally continues). >> > >> > The old donation address will continue to work fine, however I've >> > updated the donation address to: >> > >> > >> https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/12FNaL4XN1WRh4SHWXb8Gw2VvjkahqpJc7 >> > >> > Note this address begins with the number twelve, and ends with the >> > number seven. I've updated the website accordingly via Github, would >> > someone mind redeploying it? I haven't modified the website in a few >> > years and am unfamiliar with the procedure (although we should >> > investigate whether we can automate it through Github Actions). >> > >> > As an additional precaution, I've attached a terrible photo of me with >> > the new BTC address. >> > >> > On a related note, I filed Freenet Project's taxes last week. As a >> > nonprofit it doesn't need to pay tax, but unfortunately still needs to >> > file the paperwork every year to maintain that status. >> > >> > Ian. >> > >> > > > -- > Ian Clarke > CEO, Uprizer Labs LLC > Email: i...@uprizer.com > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Bitcoin donation housekeeping and change of donation address for security reasons (website needs redeploy)
Thanks Florent, I've created a new release <https://github.com/freenet/website/releases/tag/new-btc-donation-address>, should that be sufficient? On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 11:14 AM Florent Daignière < nextg...@freenetproject.org> wrote: > Hi Ian, > > We already have some CI setup... each time you push on that repository, > it gets built/deployed by travis. > > Here's the job for your last commit: > https://travis-ci.org/github/freenet/website/builds/719980195 > > It goes live on > https://staging.freenetproject.org > > If you would like it to be promoted to the main website, you need to > push a tag (the tag's name doesn't matter). > > Florent > > > On Fri, 2020-08-21 at 11:02 -0500, Ian Clarke wrote: > > We've been using Blockchain.info to manage our Bitcoin donations, but > > we were using a legacy wallet which has limited backup and security > > precautions (Blockchain.info has evolved a lot since we started using > > it). > > > > So I've moved the funds to the primary Blockchain wallet to take full > > advantage of the various security precautions, I'm also transferring 2 > > BTC to Freenet Project Inc's US dollar account to reduce our exposure > > to the whims of Bitcoin fluctuations (but we still have plenty of BTC > > to benefit if the current rally continues). > > > > The old donation address will continue to work fine, however I've > > updated the donation address to: > > > > > https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/12FNaL4XN1WRh4SHWXb8Gw2VvjkahqpJc7 > > > > Note this address begins with the number twelve, and ends with the > > number seven. I've updated the website accordingly via Github, would > > someone mind redeploying it? I haven't modified the website in a few > > years and am unfamiliar with the procedure (although we should > > investigate whether we can automate it through Github Actions). > > > > As an additional precaution, I've attached a terrible photo of me with > > the new BTC address. > > > > On a related note, I filed Freenet Project's taxes last week. As a > > nonprofit it doesn't need to pay tax, but unfortunately still needs to > > file the paperwork every year to maintain that status. > > > > Ian. > > > -- Ian Clarke CEO, Uprizer Labs LLC Email: i...@uprizer.com
Possibility for prioritization of funding allocation
I've been working on a prototype system for democratized resource allocation, it's available at http://mediator.ai/. It's still an early prototype but the important functionality is there. Feedback appreciated. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: Freenet World Domination Plan
Some good suggestions. On the UI, this would require a rewrite so may not be the direction we want to go, but I've been thinking about how to build good web-based UIs for apps for a long time now, in some regards Freenet was an early pioneer here, but unfortunately there has never really been a great option that met our needs. I kept running into the same problems and so created something to try to solve the problem, it's called http://kweb.io/. The idea is that it makes it super-easy to create rich interactive web interfaces, and yet you never need to get your fingers dirty with javascript, it's all handled transparently. Kweb is written in Kotlin rather than Java, but Kotlin is fully interoperable and anyone familiar with Java should be able to get comfortable with Kotlin very easily. On the negative side, Kweb is still at the working prototype stage, but I've been tinkering with it for over 18 months at this point. If we wanted to take a fresh stab at the web UI, it would be worth at least considering Kweb. On Thu, May 24, 2018 at 12:59 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Hi, > > This is a high-level roadmap. > > We had several roadmaps in the past. They focussed on releases and on > "when are we done". This one is different. It focusses on visions to > find a stronger audience. It does not shun controversial topics and it > is not a request for input. > > > These are the powerful visions I see, ordered alphabetically: > > > - Beautiful Freenet: Winterfacey by default, clean up UI warts > (i.e. first time wizard). Get rid of those UX hurdles which are likely > to cost us the most users. > > - Hosted Freenet: provide images (i.e. docker) to make it easy to run a > Freenet node for all the transparent freenet stuff which does not need > highest security but should be available to people who need highest > security. > > - Icicle Freenet: a crystal seed for darknet via mobile. Try the icicle > app. Improve it. Show it. It’s how we devs should be able to ping > other devs on their mobiles. > > - Mobile Freenet: transient nodes without storage which only connect > while on wifi and external power (~40% of the time) — and while the > user browses. Announcement is fast enough for that nowadays, and > median uptime of desktop nodes is lower (only two to four hours). > > - Multimedia Freenet: add more content filters and media tools. I want > to stream songs over Freenet with <2 minutes delay => m3u + opus + > tools to make that easy. Streaming video works well if > pre-recorded. Must avoid recently failed. > > - Stronger Freenet: Increase security against attackers, i.e. with > simple channels. > > - Transparent Freenet: backend to other apps, installed and started > on-demand. Makes Freenet available from any technology stack. Get > Freenet into all major distributions, so programs can use it there, > and provide a freenet-browser script and a run-with-freenet script > which does all the steps needed to start Freenet and connect the > browser or app securely (i.e. to Freenet with random IP and Port). > > - Unblocked Freenet: fix the pitch black attack and scale WoT. Makes > Freenet interesting to tech-savvy folks with >10 years of experience. > > > Best wishes, > Arne > -- > Unpolitisch sein > heißt politisch sein > ohne es zu merken > -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Tried to deploy a change to the site
A few minutes ago I made the following minor change to the site (pushed to the 2016-redesign branch). https://github.com/freenet/website/commit/5dd149b5b04535d6253b44817e5c44be98865de0 A few minutes later I'm still not seeing the change live on the site, did I miss a step? Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Website quick-guide and snaglist
I've created a doc to give quick instructions on how to contribute to the site and also a list of snags that need to be fixed. Hopefully this can grow into a quick overview of how everything is wired together here (if Florent or someone could flesh this out). Anyone is welcome to address any snag, just mark it with strikethrough once you start working on it / finish it. This doc does not require Google sign-in to edit, tor (please don't abuse) and can be accessed via Tor (I've tested this): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WjStykIc_BiCircQ7os2xBq-NSDuIm437WZVU4a6Z5E/edit# Please contribute to the doc, find snags, and (even better!) fix snags :) Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: HSTS and expired cert: our site is down for now
On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 11:19 AM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Thu, 2017-04-06 at 15:08 +, Ian wrote: > Well, it's an improvement over what we have now even if it is > incomplete :) > Just for clarity, what is the procedure for deploying improvements? Pushing them to the existing repository on a different branch. Travis will auto-build/deploy from there if the build succeeds. The list of authorized people/process hasn't changed; anyone not on the list has to send a pull request. Where is the list? Any chance you can provide a top-down overview of the setup, or if this is documented anywhere can you point me to it? Maybe I've just been out-of-the-loop but I definitely don't have a good top-down understanding of the setup. At least 2 people should have a good enough understanding of this to admin it. > Now that it's live hopefully multiple people can fork it and start > pushing improvements which we can review and merge. > We should have an approval process for it - it would be ideal if we > had staging where changes could be reviewed live before being pushed > to production. That's the plan. When I get some time I will set it up (two branches, deploying to two different buckets/FQDNs, like we used to have). I'm puzzled, when you said: I won't have time to do anything more for the foreseeable future. I assumed it meant that we couldn't expect you to do any more work on this, did I misunderstand? > Florent, if you won't have time to do anything for the foreseeable > future, is there someone else familiar enough with how things are set > up that they can work on it? Right now there is still massive amounts of work to be done on the content; IMHO a two step review process would be overkill for now... Ok, I agree that we should minimize red tape while there is still a lot to be done. > It would be well worth spending some of our funding to hire an AWS > expert to ensure everything is set up nicely and minimize the risk of > something like this happening in future. I have a good guy in mind > (used to work for Amazon so very familiar with AWS). > Thoughts? I don't think it would be. This happened because we weren't using AWS yet. Our new setup is rock-solid and fairly standard: it's an S3 bucket where the content is served by cloudfront. I was mostly motivated by the fact that I thought you said you wouldn't be able to do any more, and yet you seem to be the only person who knows how everything fits together. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I just want to make sure we don't end up in a situation again where something breaks and the only person who can fix it is unavailable. If we can pay someone competent to help us to get to this point I think it would be well worth it - but happy to discuss if you think differently. Ian.
Re: Freenet Infrastructure Migration TODO
Thank you for your work on this Arne. Regarding the certs, I don't have a strong opinion but doesn't Amazon also do this? Since we're migrating to Amazon already and AWS has fairly powerful multi-user admin capabilities, wouldn't it be better to use them? Ian. On Sun, Mar 26, 2017 5:30 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote: Hi, This lays out the steps needed to migrate to our new infrastructure with the new SSL certs. It is a short-term plan, but it should be compatible with moving to gradle and signed jars for validation of downloads (instead of sha1 files). If you find any problem in this plan, please say so — ideally with a suggested fix! If there’s something missing, please do likewise! You can find a live-version of this plan on https://titanpad.com/yKe1kGH902 Basics: The new repo should be compatible with both plain file storage and retrieving and verifying dependencies from maven via gradle. I suggest a maven structure, but we won’t be able to push that to maven central without changing our package to org.freenetproject — which would break all plugins and scripts and pull requests (which I think it’s a no-go¹). Nextgens is preparing an S3 bucket at mvn.freenetproject.org. We’ll start by uploading the binaries there, as https://mvn.freenetproject.org/org/freenetproject/fred/<#>/fred-<#>.jar{,.sha1,.sig} Our package stays freenet. We advertise the build number as version. Tasks: - release a new build to the new and the existing infrastructure: - adjusted paths in updater.sh, updater.cmd, sha1test.jar and fred. - adjusted release scripts to upload fred and plugin release files to the new repo (and create the directories as needed). - adjusted gradle to allow publishing to the new repo (with full maven metadata) - adjust download paths on the website - ... ? paths: https://mvn.freenetproject.org/org/freenetproject/fred/<#>/fred-<#>.jar{,.sha1,.sig} ¹: it took us more than one year to partially recover from the db4o purge. We still have plugins which aren’t adjusted to working without db4o, so I don’t think we’re currently in a position to do large refactoring with side-effects like that. Best wishes, Arne -- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein ohne es zu merken Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org
Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha
Another one, we should probably fix "184 Followers Downloads 184 Likes" at the bottom. " Downloads" probably isn't the message we want to be sending :) Also not sure if we need to include how many followers/likes we have here, or if we really want that there is probably a FB widget we can embed. Ian. On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 9:25 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com wrote: Some feedback on the site re: mobile device format: Looks great👍 however there's something a little strange with the layout on my phone. The first logo seems to push the margins out to the right effecting the scrolling. On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 9:15 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com wrote: Minor thing, but probably worth adding Facebook markup so that the page looks good when shared : https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/webmasters#markup On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 7:30 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Florent, Thanks so much for putting that together. When I try to access staging.freenetproject.org I get an "Access Denied" error. In the past I recall there being an authentication challenge, am I missing something? Thanks,Dan On Mar 15, 2017 4:34 PM, "Florent Daigniere" wrote: I have deployed it on https://github.com/freenet/website/tree/2016-redesign It gets auto-built by CI when you push to it https://travis-ci.org/freenet/website and auto-deployed to: https://staging.freenetproject.org/ Florent On Fri, 2017-03-10 at 10:49 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote: > Hi Ian, > I was going to solicit further feedback this weekend since nobody > has > commented on the language selection menu. Since that is my own > creation, > not from the original design I want a bit of review. > > My list of remaining items is extremely small at this point so > community > feedback is important in general. > > After i finish my list I can start in on content updates like you > pointed > out. > > Thanks, > Dan > > On Mar 9, 2017 7:44 AM, "Ian Clarke" wrote: > > > Hey Dan, > > > > Any updates? > > > > Ian. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 8:27 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com wrote: > > > > > Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should > > > change > > > "What's Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features" to > > > "Features". We should probably have more to explain what Freenet > > > is, and > > > the Download link in the "What's Freenet" section doesn't really > > > belong > > > there. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hey Everyone, > > > I've put a new release up here: https://ademan-laptop. > > > github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ Some resource images > > > are > > > broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ prefix, and > > > I'm not > > > certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths break with > > > our > > > i18n_subsites usage). Please ignore that for the moment. > > > > > > Please take a look at the language menu's style, I extrapolated > > > from the > > > design we bought, but I am not really a designer. I think I'll > > > change its > > > functionality so that changing language keeps you on the same > > > page. The > > > language menu picks up any messages.mo files (generated from .po > > > files) and > > > gives them a language entry. > > > > > > I appreciate any and all constructive feedback. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Dan > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide > > eb.de> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dan Roberts writes: > > > > > > > Hey Everyone, > > > > I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow. > > > > > > Great! > > > > > > > I seem to constantly > > > > find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever, > > > > > > That’s common problem ☺ > > > > > > > I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet > > > > page. I > > > > > > found > > > > this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749 > > > > I think > > > > it's worth having something. > > > > > > There’s also the Deep Web community
Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha
Some feedback on the site re: mobile device format: Looks great👍 however there's something a little strange with the layout on my phone. The first logo seems to push the margins out to the right effecting the scrolling. On Thu, Mar 16, 2017 9:15 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com wrote: Minor thing, but probably worth adding Facebook markup so that the page looks good when shared : https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/webmasters#markup On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 7:30 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Florent, Thanks so much for putting that together. When I try to access staging.freenetproject.org I get an "Access Denied" error. In the past I recall there being an authentication challenge, am I missing something? Thanks,Dan On Mar 15, 2017 4:34 PM, "Florent Daigniere" wrote: I have deployed it on https://github.com/freenet/website/tree/2016-redesign It gets auto-built by CI when you push to it https://travis-ci.org/freenet/website and auto-deployed to: https://staging.freenetproject.org/ Florent On Fri, 2017-03-10 at 10:49 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote: > Hi Ian, > I was going to solicit further feedback this weekend since nobody > has > commented on the language selection menu. Since that is my own > creation, > not from the original design I want a bit of review. > > My list of remaining items is extremely small at this point so > community > feedback is important in general. > > After i finish my list I can start in on content updates like you > pointed > out. > > Thanks, > Dan > > On Mar 9, 2017 7:44 AM, "Ian Clarke" wrote: > > > Hey Dan, > > > > Any updates? > > > > Ian. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 8:27 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com wrote: > > > > > Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should > > > change > > > "What's Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features" to > > > "Features". We should probably have more to explain what Freenet > > > is, and > > > the Download link in the "What's Freenet" section doesn't really > > > belong > > > there. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hey Everyone, > > > I've put a new release up here: https://ademan-laptop. > > > github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ Some resource images > > > are > > > broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ prefix, and > > > I'm not > > > certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths break with > > > our > > > i18n_subsites usage). Please ignore that for the moment. > > > > > > Please take a look at the language menu's style, I extrapolated > > > from the > > > design we bought, but I am not really a designer. I think I'll > > > change its > > > functionality so that changing language keeps you on the same > > > page. The > > > language menu picks up any messages.mo files (generated from .po > > > files) and > > > gives them a language entry. > > > > > > I appreciate any and all constructive feedback. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Dan > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide > > eb.de> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dan Roberts writes: > > > > > > > Hey Everyone, > > > > I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow. > > > > > > Great! > > > > > > > I seem to constantly > > > > find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever, > > > > > > That’s common problem ☺ > > > > > > > I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet > > > > page. I > > > > > > found > > > > this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749 > > > > I think > > > > it's worth having something. > > > > > > There’s also the Deep Web community: > > > https://plus.google.com/communities/104253064892524682250 > > > > > > > I'll be removing the pinterest and instagram social media links > > > > unless > > > > somebody thinks we should have a presence there too. > > > > > > There’s a difference between thinking we should be there and > > > having > > > someon
Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha
Minor thing, but probably worth adding Facebook markup so that the page looks good when shared : https://developers.facebook.com/docs/sharing/webmasters#markup On Wed, Mar 15, 2017 7:30 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Florent, Thanks so much for putting that together. When I try to access staging.freenetproject.org I get an "Access Denied" error. In the past I recall there being an authentication challenge, am I missing something? Thanks,Dan On Mar 15, 2017 4:34 PM, "Florent Daigniere" wrote: I have deployed it on https://github.com/freenet/website/tree/2016-redesign It gets auto-built by CI when you push to it https://travis-ci.org/freenet/website and auto-deployed to: https://staging.freenetproject.org/ Florent On Fri, 2017-03-10 at 10:49 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote: > Hi Ian, > I was going to solicit further feedback this weekend since nobody > has > commented on the language selection menu. Since that is my own > creation, > not from the original design I want a bit of review. > > My list of remaining items is extremely small at this point so > community > feedback is important in general. > > After i finish my list I can start in on content updates like you > pointed > out. > > Thanks, > Dan > > On Mar 9, 2017 7:44 AM, "Ian Clarke" wrote: > > > Hey Dan, > > > > Any updates? > > > > Ian. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 8:27 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com wrote: > > > > > Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should > > > change > > > "What's Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features" to > > > "Features". We should probably have more to explain what Freenet > > > is, and > > > the Download link in the "What's Freenet" section doesn't really > > > belong > > > there. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hey Everyone, > > > I've put a new release up here: https://ademan-laptop. > > > github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ Some resource images > > > are > > > broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ prefix, and > > > I'm not > > > certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths break with > > > our > > > i18n_subsites usage). Please ignore that for the moment. > > > > > > Please take a look at the language menu's style, I extrapolated > > > from the > > > design we bought, but I am not really a designer. I think I'll > > > change its > > > functionality so that changing language keeps you on the same > > > page. The > > > language menu picks up any messages.mo files (generated from .po > > > files) and > > > gives them a language entry. > > > > > > I appreciate any and all constructive feedback. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Dan > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide > > eb.de> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Dan Roberts writes: > > > > > > > Hey Everyone, > > > > I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow. > > > > > > Great! > > > > > > > I seem to constantly > > > > find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever, > > > > > > That’s common problem ☺ > > > > > > > I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet > > > > page. I > > > > > > found > > > > this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749 > > > > I think > > > > it's worth having something. > > > > > > There’s also the Deep Web community: > > > https://plus.google.com/communities/104253064892524682250 > > > > > > > I'll be removing the pinterest and instagram social media links > > > > unless > > > > somebody thinks we should have a presence there too. > > > > > > There’s a difference between thinking we should be there and > > > having > > > someone who does it: If we had someone who maintains them, I’d say > > > we > > > should be there. According to teachers, instagram is where the > > > cool > > > people are are nowadays. If not, not. I think this goes for every > > > social > > &g
Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha
Same for me, access denied. Probably not much reason to require a password. On Wed, Mar 15, 2017, 7:30 PM Dan Roberts wrote: > Hi Florent, > > Thanks so much for putting that together. When I try to access > staging.freenetproject.org I get an "Access Denied" error. In the past I > recall there being an authentication challenge, am I missing something? > > Thanks, > Dan > > On Mar 15, 2017 4:34 PM, "Florent Daigniere" > wrote: > > I have deployed it on > https://github.com/freenet/website/tree/2016-redesign > It gets auto-built by CI when you push to it > https://travis-ci.org/freenet/website > and auto-deployed to: > https://staging.freenetproject.org/ > > Florent > > > On Fri, 2017-03-10 at 10:49 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote: > > Hi Ian, > > I was going to solicit further feedback this weekend since nobody > > has > > commented on the language selection menu. Since that is my own > > creation, > > not from the original design I want a bit of review. > > > > My list of remaining items is extremely small at this point so > > community > > feedback is important in general. > > > > After i finish my list I can start in on content updates like you > > pointed > > out. > > > > Thanks, > > Dan > > > > On Mar 9, 2017 7:44 AM, "Ian Clarke" wrote: > > > > > Hey Dan, > > > > > > Any updates? > > > > > > Ian. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 8:27 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com wrote: > > > > > > > Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should > > > > change > > > > "What's Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features" to > > > > "Features". We should probably have more to explain what Freenet > > > > is, and > > > > the Download link in the "What's Freenet" section doesn't really > > > > belong > > > > there. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hey Everyone, > > > > I've put a new release up here: https://ademan-laptop. > > > > github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ Some resource images > > > > are > > > > broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ prefix, and > > > > I'm not > > > > certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths break with > > > > our > > > > i18n_subsites usage). Please ignore that for the moment. > > > > > > > > Please take a look at the language menu's style, I extrapolated > > > > from the > > > > design we bought, but I am not really a designer. I think I'll > > > > change its > > > > functionality so that changing language keeps you on the same > > > > page. The > > > > language menu picks up any messages.mo files (generated from .po > > > > files) and > > > > gives them a language entry. > > > > > > > > I appreciate any and all constructive feedback. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dan > > > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide > > > eb.de> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Dan Roberts writes: > > > > > > > > > Hey Everyone, > > > > > I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow. > > > > > > > > Great! > > > > > > > > > I seem to constantly > > > > > find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever, > > > > > > > > That’s common problem ☺ > > > > > > > > > I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet > > > > > page. I > > > > > > > > found > > > > > this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749 > > > > > I think > > > > > it's worth having something. > > > > > > > > There’s also the Deep Web community: > > > > https://plus.google.com/communities/104253064892524682250 > > > > > > > > > I'll be removing the pinterest and instagram social media links > > > > > unles
Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha
Hey Dan, Any updates? Ian. On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 8:27 AM, Ian Clarke i...@trystacks.com wrote: Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should change "What's Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features" to "Features". We should probably have more to explain what Freenet is, and the Download link in the "What's Freenet" section doesn't really belong there. On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Everyone, I've put a new release up here: https://ademan-laptop.github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ Some resource images are broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ prefix, and I'm not certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths break with our i18n_subsites usage). Please ignore that for the moment. Please take a look at the language menu's style, I extrapolated from the design we bought, but I am not really a designer. I think I'll change its functionality so that changing language keeps you on the same page. The language menu picks up any messages.mo files (generated from .po files) and gives them a language entry. I appreciate any and all constructive feedback. Thanks,Dan On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: Dan Roberts writes: > Hey Everyone, > I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow. Great! > I seem to constantly > find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever, That’s common problem ☺ > I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet page. I found > this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749 I think > it's worth having something. There’s also the Deep Web community: https://plus.google.com/communities/104253064892524682250 > I'll be removing the pinterest and instagram social media links unless > somebody thinks we should have a presence there too. There’s a difference between thinking we should be there and having someone who does it: If we had someone who maintains them, I’d say we should be there. According to teachers, instagram is where the cool people are are nowadays. If not, not. I think this goes for every social network. > The difference from twitter, google+ and facebook are that we > incidentally generate content to put on those sites (news items can be > copied and pasted and/or linked to), the more image-oriented social > media would take extra effort (that I don't believe would be worth > while). Sounds reasonable. Best wishes, Arne -- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein ohne es zu merken ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl Ian ClarkeStacks - Our AI will save your moneyhttp://trystacks.com/ Ian ClarkeStacks - Our AI will save your moneyhttp://trystacks.com/ ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha
Only have a few seconds for feedback just now, but we should change "What's Freenet" to "What is Freenet?", and "Freenet Features" to "Features". We should probably have more to explain what Freenet is, and the Download link in the "What's Freenet" section doesn't really belong there. On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 3:02 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Everyone, I've put a new release up here: https://ademan-laptop.github.io/freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ Some resource images are broken due to the /freenet-website-redesign-pelican/ prefix, and I'm not certain there's a good way to fix this. (Relative paths break with our i18n_subsites usage). Please ignore that for the moment. Please take a look at the language menu's style, I extrapolated from the design we bought, but I am not really a designer. I think I'll change its functionality so that changing language keeps you on the same page. The language menu picks up any messages.mo files (generated from .po files) and gives them a language entry. I appreciate any and all constructive feedback. Thanks,Dan On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 1:54 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: Dan Roberts writes: > Hey Everyone, > I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow. Great! > I seem to constantly > find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever, That’s common problem ☺ > I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet page. I found > this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749 I think > it's worth having something. There’s also the Deep Web community: https://plus.google.com/communities/104253064892524682250 > I'll be removing the pinterest and instagram social media links unless > somebody thinks we should have a presence there too. There’s a difference between thinking we should be there and having someone who does it: If we had someone who maintains them, I’d say we should be there. According to teachers, instagram is where the cool people are are nowadays. If not, not. I think this goes for every social network. > The difference from twitter, google+ and facebook are that we > incidentally generate content to put on those sites (news items can be > copied and pasted and/or linked to), the more image-oriented social > media would take extra effort (that I don't believe would be worth > while). Sounds reasonable. Best wishes, Arne -- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein ohne es zu merken ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl Ian ClarkeStacks - Our AI will save your moneyhttp://trystacks.com/ ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki
On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 3:51 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote:Ian Clarke writes: > On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 9:06 AM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote:Our typical > developer is using a highly sophisticated terminal mail client > > which has received decades of development. > Really? Have you conducted a survey? I can't remember the last time I saw > anyone using a terminal mail client, it was probably 15 years ago. I do — I use mu4e on Emacs, about half the time via commandline. I know that this is not a survey, it is just one datapoint. Interesting, I used mutt for a while back in 1998 or 1999, them were the days. Google Inbox these days (which does have some annoying qualities, doesn't seem to do so well with formatting quoted replies). Ian. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki
Ok, I'm not making a specific point about any particular decision, I just don't want us be paralyzed by needing to accommodate every obscure edge-case in anything we do. On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 12:54 PM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Sunday, February 26, 2017 06:39:00 PM Ian Clarke wrote: On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 9:06 AM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote: > Our typical developer is using a highly sophisticated terminal mail client > which has received decades of development. Really? Have you conducted a survey? I can't remember the last time I saw anyone using a terminal mail client, it was probably 15 years ago. Look at the user agent of the mails of Arne you have replied to in this very thread. They're sent by emacs. There in fact also is a survey - which shows mutt has a *GROWING* user amount: https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=mutt Our developer's liking terminals is also a general impression from our daily discussions on the IRC team chat over the past years. Steve uses a terminal IRC client. Florent too as far as I remember. Also we haven't had a Windows installer for years because from our dozens of contributors *nobody* was using Windows to the point of being able to maintain an installer. Yes this is unrelated to mail, but it shows how far our folks are located on the "open source spectrum". So please chose wisely with regards to shiny JavaScript cloud solutions :| Disclaimer: I use a GUI mail client, this is not self-serving. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki
On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 9:06 AM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote:Our typical developer is using a highly sophisticated terminal mail client which has received decades of development. Really? Have you conducted a survey? I can't remember the last time I saw anyone using a terminal mail client, it was probably 15 years ago. Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] DDG Donation Roadblocks
The funding (combined with a lot of work by Dan) has bought us a new website, we should be seeing the fruits of this soon. It only cost a few thousand $$$. Ian. On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 8:53 AM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Saturday, February 25, 2017 08:23:00 PM Freenet wrote: > What is stopping the funding from DuckDuckGo (received over a year ago) > from being disbursed? Finding someone qualified to hire. While it is indeed frustrating to see no progress here, I would please remind you that all of us are volunteers currently which means we have very limited time - and that time is fully consumed by the fact that we have to: - migrate the website - migrate the 3 wikis - migrate the bugtracker (I'm at it) - migrate the mailing lists and mail - do a Freenet release since there has not been one for half a year and we must do one soon due to the SSL certificate expiring All of those are complex tasks, and thus it would be very unwise to now start the even more complex task of hiring someone AND reviewing their code for whether the quality is sufficient / they aren't ripping us of. Thus I would propose we wait until the server migration is finished before we deal with the hiring. > I propose March 15th that the money is spent, to the best of the current > results of the poll and all discussion surrounding it. Sorry but it would be absolutely impossible to find someone trustworthy enough to hand them over $27500 right away in that timespan. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl Ian ClarkeStacks - Our AI will save your moneyhttp://trystacks.com/ ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Freenet social media links (was: Re: Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha
Dan, Given that any link is a de-facto endorsement, we shouldn't link to any social media page that isn't officially affiliated with the project. For example, the @freenet Twitter handle is apparently controlled by someone with the email address "jo*@gmail.com" - I don't think I know this person, does anyone else? They seem to be squatting on the username, I don't see any tweets since it was registered in 2008. @freenetproject seems to be associated with the email address "tw*@f*.***" - I'm guessing this is twit...@freenetproject.org? Who does this go to? Is anyone actively administering this? Ian. On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 1:30 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Everyone, I'll be posting the website for feedback tomorrow. I seem to constantly find new things to fix, but I could probably nit-pick forever, I need everyone's help catching the big things I haven't noticed. There are two things that are near-show-stoppers I intend to fix tomorrow afternoon. I'd like to also create and/or link to a google plus freenet page. I found this: https://plus.google.com/communities/107006765679470608749 I think it's worth having something. I'll be removing the pinterest and instagram social media links unless somebody thinks we should have a presence there too. The difference from twitter, google+ and facebook are that we incidentally generate content to put on those sites (news items can be copied and pasted and/or linked to), the more image-oriented social media would take extra effort (that I don't believe would be worth while). Thanks,Dan On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:43 PM, Ian Clarke wrote: Thanks for the update and your hard work on this! On Wed, Feb 15, 2017, 9:42 PM Dan Roberts wrote: Just a quick update. I ran into an issue that cost me a lot of time. Frustratingly it was something I removed when I first uploaded to github. I've found that trivial issues cause difficult to trace errors in pelican. I'm still moving forward, but I did have this setback. I have a three day weekend so I'll be pushing very hard through Monday to get everything in order. Ideally I'll seek feedback Saturday and/or Sunday and prepare for release Monday, this last 20% has been rough but the end is in sight. Thanks,Dan On Feb 9, 2017 6:15 PM, "Dan Roberts" wrote: Hey Ian, I didn't have a whole lot of time last weekend but I've been squeezing in time during the week as my week permitted... I'm planning to set aside most of this weekend to work on it though, I should be able to address all of the known issues during that time, so we're getting very close. Thanks,Dan On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 7:41 AM, Ian Clarke wrote: Hey Dan, How are things going with the new website? Are we close to going live with it? Ian. On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 1:19 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote: Ian Clarke writes: > On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 5:34 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote:A >> More importantly: However they are shown: We are lacking screenshots. > We should only include screenshots if they don't detract from the clean design. Do people install programs nowadays when they don’t get a screenshot? (a few years ago, missing screenshots were the easiest way to loose most visitors). >> Leap over censorship >> Escape total surveillance > I was never a big fan of this tagline, it's a somewhat tortured pun. When did > we get rid of the Mike Godwin quote? I don’t know why we did that, but I always disagreed with removing it. My point is: We need a strong tagline. > > “After running the Tor services for years it was a big relief to just > > shut down the services for good and say ’fuck it’. I never again > > had to worry no more about security. With Freenet I am Free, it > > suites the name pretty well if you ask me.” > > — Unkwon > > I don't think we should have swear-words on the site, definitely not on the > front page. It would look immature. Steve said that, too, and I agree with you both. We can simply remove that part of the quote. Best wishes, Arne -- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein ohne es zu merken ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl Ian ClarkeStacks - Our AI will save your moneyhttp://trystacks.com/ -- Stackshttp://trystacks.com/ - Our AI will save you money Ian ClarkeStacks - Our AI will save your moneyhttp://trystacks.com/ ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki
On Sat, Feb 25, 2017 4:19 AM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote: Or we could just migrate to slack (like Ian suggested ages ago). It's not like there has been any meaningful, productive, development-related discussion on this mailing list in the last few years. While I'm more familiar with Slack, https://gitter.im/ is an alternative we should consider that's used by a few open source projects. Slack may have more of a barrier to entry for users, for example the Kotlin open source project appears to require an external invite mechanism before users can access Slack - http://slack.kotlinlang.org/ However, Gitter seems to require a Github account, which might be a problem for non-developers. As for complaints about proprietary services, nothing in the goals of our project mandates that we only ever use open source tools. Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki
On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 11:19 AM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote:What about a stupid, plain old htaccess file? Don't know if that will work with our current plan to host on AWS, but hopefully there is some equivalent way to remap URLs that we can use. But we need to find a hoster for the mailing lists and mail forwards anyway, and they usually offer that in a bundle with a domain, webspace, email, etc. Google Groups? So we could get rid of the maintenance of running our own server, keep the mail stuff, and the URIs via htaccess. I agree with the goal, not sure if that specific approach will work but something along those lines. At my current hoster I pay 2.94 dollars / month for a domain, 5 GB webspace, 5 GB mailspace AND mailing list & mail forward support. - that's cheap and sufficient, and I didn't check whether they're the cheapest for like 5 years, there may be even cheaper companies nowadays. I'd really like us to use AWS for as much as possible re: hosting. It has a lot of benefits, one of which is powerful multi-user support. Ian. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki
I don't want to break links, but I also don't want that to become a blocker for updating to the new website. Hopefully there can be some way we can re-map URLs and then those that care about breaking links can migrate the important stuff over quickly. Ian. On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 3:07 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote: Florent Daigniere writes: > On Tue, 2017-02-21 at 08:54 +0100, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: >> Florent just warned again, that the clock on osprey (all our >> non-standard hosting) is ticking. If we don’t act, this means that all >> links to the wiki stop working. > > This has never been expressed as a requirement until now. I personally > don't have a problem with the links being broken. > > https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/2016-August/039236.html > 7 months into the plan, it's insane to start changing the requirements. I always said that we need to preserve links. Not only for the wiki. And not only starting 2016. That I get ignored is not my fault here. Breaking existing links and by that breaking the guides from the times when Freenet was a focus of anti-surveillance culture is dumb. This is not personal for me, but it is a topic I care about. It is dumb when companies break links, and it is dumber if we do it. Best wishes, Arne -- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein ohne es zu merken ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl Ian ClarkeStacks - Our AI will save your moneyhttp://trystacks.com/ ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki
It's ok, the project can pay for it if everyone is in agreement, and if someone is willing to handle the migration. On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 12:30 PM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 01:24:50 PM Steve Dougherty wrote: We're at the point where I would repeat myself. For reasons already stated, I'd like to continue using Mantis. I am willing to pay the hosting costs. There are more than directly financial costs in migrating to a new platform. Great, I'd suggest you then pay only half, and I pay the other half :) As an only exception I would propose that FPI pays the $200 one-time migration fee as that is something completely independent of which bugtracker we use. And $200 being a wage for one person day is appropriate - it will probably be a week of work to migrate any bugtracker for us being untrained with that, so a day is cheap.___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl Ian ClarkeStacks - Our AI will save your moneyhttp://trystacks.com/ ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki
$23/month is expensive for what this is (considering that Github is free for open source projects and does a lot more) :-/ Ian. On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 11:58 AM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 06:02:25 PM x...@freenetproject.org wrote: > > What company can we use for Mantis hosting? > > I will allocate a day for googling all of them ASAP, I'll try to do it > within a week. Actually, the decision which company to ask first can be solved pretty naturally - Mantis has a recommendation linked from the frontpage of their website, if they recommend it the company ought to work somehow: https://www.mantisbt.org/hosting.php They have a $22.92/month plan which would likely suit us if there wasn't the very low user limit of 15 - we have 1200. However I've calculated our daily average users to be 0.3! I've sent them a mail which explains that we're a non-profit and thus have high user churn with low activity, and asked them nicely to make an exception & give us an offer. I'll let you know their answer. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki
Your ability to take something that could be said in 3 sentences and turn it into a multi-page melodramatic essay never ceases to amaze me. What company can we use for Mantis hosting? Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 9:51 AM, Steve Dougherty st...@asksteved.com wrote: Ian, the thing I find frustrating with your approach is that we'd regularly be moving to something new based on what's literally trending. That's a caricature of what I've said. My main point is that we should not be administering our own server when there are good free 3rd-party hosted alternatives for everything we need to do. My secondary point is that Mantis is a dying piece of software, and it has been dying for years, but if you are all really that attached to it then we should find a reliable and cost-effective 3rd-party hosted solution, which the project can pay for. Unlike GitHub's wiki, I do not see a (semi-)automated way to export GitHub issues into another system Github Issues has a simple and comprehensive API which makes it just as easy to export data from it as from anything else, moreso given that it's likely to be much better supported than Mantis going forward. , and I really don't want to put our issues in something we can't later move them from. (I do see some extraction scripts using the API but they seem to output just HTML; I do suppose that's solvable but would mean additional work.) You don't even know what future issue tracker we'd want to export to, so it's hardly surprising that a script for it doesn't yet exist. I would estimate just a few hours of dev work to export from Github Issues to any other reasonable issue tracker. I do agree there's a big backlog of issues that are probably not going to be addressed anytime soon, but that's hardly unique for a long-running project. Manual migration is not a viable way forward for the bug tracker. Nobody is advocating that. Ian. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 8:15 AM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 02:01:02 PM Ian Clarke wrote: > If necessary we can continue to pay for our own server, however I think it > would be better for everyone if we could migrate over to solutions that > don't require that we manage our own servers, such as Github Issues for > bugtracking. I've looked at GitHub issues for bugtracking, they are not an option: The most simple issue with it would be that it would require us to ask every pre-existing bug reporter to allow us acccess to their GitHub account so we can link their issues against their account. We have 1158 user accounts, so this isn't going to happen. We wouldn't have to do that, we could add a note/tag to each issue with the original reporter and those that are still active in the project can change the ownership of their issues to themselves. Also, your argument could be used to prevent us from ever moving away from Mantis as our bugtracker. Looking at Google Trends, Mantis has been steadily declining in popularity for at least the last 5 years. Our dependence on it will become more and more of a headache with time, even if we find a free hosted solution for it. Also consider that we're a paranoia focused project, so even our most active contributors might not grant access. As mentioned, there is no requirement for anyone to grant anything for us to migrate our issues to Github or another solution. As a paranoia-focussed project, the fact that we are maintaining our own server without the resources to maintain it properly (including security) should be a much greater concern than it appears to be. It also is very unlikely that GitHub can provide a 1:1 mapping of the datamodel of Mantis, so we would lose lots of critical information. Such as? Given that us trying to migrate a Wiki resulted in 4 Wikis, we should probably quit trying to pretend we have the resources to migrate things to different software and keep using the one we're familiar with. We should quit trying to pretend we have the resources to manage our own server, and acknowledge that sooner or later (preferably sooner) we'll be forced to bite the bullet and switch to a modern hosted bugtracker. It's not a question of "if", but "when" and "how". I cannot name a single critical feature which Mantis is lacking for our purposes anyway, and I am probably the one who currently uses our Mantis the most. The most critical feature it's lacking is that someone else administers the server it runs on. The fact that it has been declining steadily in popularity for at least 5 years is another serious concern. The security impact can be lessened by frequent backup (I can offer that as well) and hosting our actual website + binaries elsewhere, which I am fine with. Frequent backups won't help us if the server is compromised. I have been running my own server with a dozen of services for like a decade, I'm not new to that. I even wrote a 90 page documentation of its settings :D Even if you can completely replace what Florent has been doing, being solely dependent on one person is concerning, particularly when it is entirely unnecessary for us to manage our own server when everything we do can be handled by widely-used, hosted, and free third-party services. > and nor should we need to since there are free and widely used hosted > services that do almost everything we need to do. Ian. If you can tell me one which can provide free Mantis hosting or at least a full mapping of the Mantis data model I will have a look at it. That's not the requirement. Why don't you tell me what specifically Github Issues cannot do that is important to us. - Just because something is also called "bugtracker" doesn't mean that migrating to it wouldn't cause deleting 80% of the information we have stored in Mantis. Mantis is legacy software that has been steadily declining in popularity for years. github Issues is powerful, hosted by a free service we're already using, has a flexible API, and doesn't require that we manage our own server (which is expensive, risky, and time consuming). I doubt we would really need to lose anything important if we migrated to a solution other than Mantis, but IMHO continuing to maintain our own server unnecessarily isn't an option any more. I'm also curious as to the value of much of the data in Mantis, I mean, are most of the issues in there still relevant? Are they ever likely to be fixed or will they just gather dust indefinitely? What is the process by which we prioritize the issues in there and fix them? Ian. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] preserving the links to the wiki
If necessary we can continue to pay for our own server, however I think it would be better for everyone if we could migrate over to solutions that don't require that we manage our own servers, such as Github Issues for bugtracking. These servers are a time drain and a security vulnerability. If Florent is no-longer willing to do it, we simply don't have anyone with the expertise and time to manage a server, and nor should we need to since there are free and widely used hosted services that do almost everything we need to do. Ian. On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 7:56 AM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Tuesday, February 21, 2017 08:54:20 AM Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Hi, > > Florent just warned again, that the clock on osprey (all our > non-standard hosting) is ticking. If we don’t act, this means that all > links to the wiki stop working. I've read the IRC discussion, and I don't see any reason why our server should go down except the fact that it looks like Florent isn't in the mood anymore to maintain it and thus threatens to pull the plug on it when the new site goes live. There is at least one other person willing to maintain/host it, he should just ask who wants to deal with it instead of treating it like his personal kingdom which must go down with him. With regards to the issue of paying it: I'm even at the point where I am so scared of the potentially happening nuclear act of destroying our codebase's maintainability by deleting the bugtracker that I would actually consider paying for the a server myself if Ian really doesn't want FPI to do so (albeit please be aware that I've severely damaged my finances by volunteering for over a year, which was worth thousands of dollars, and continuing to do so, so I'd be happy if I don't have to, or if at least someone else paid a part). Hell, the project HAS $25k which we cannot even manage to spend, we could probably pay a server for decades... So money isn't an issue as well. So anyway, it's completely acceptable for him to not want to volunteer on certain things anymore, but he must not take down our infrastructure just because he isn't in the mood for dealing with it. The website isn't the only important thing on it. I'm willing to have a look at how to maintain the thing if someone gives me access to the shell / web interface of the hoster. Arne, would you be willing to also participate in maintenance? > To avoid that, I can provide hosting of a static copy of the wiki with > links at the top of each article to the new github based wiki. I already > talked about this with Florent, so I’m now taking this here for wider > discussion. While this is a kind offer, it will lead us into a trap which we already fell into once: When we migrated from $old_wiki_software to MediaWiki, we put the old one in read-only mode. As a result, nobody knows what has been migrated and what hasn't because people cannot delete things right after they migrated them. Thus as migration is very difficult now, the old wiki is STILL is running and has been for almost a decade: https://old-wiki.freenetproject.org Further, we are also running a second MediaWiki instance as the French wiki - so we now have 4 wikis! Thus, I would say the proper way to do migration now is: - Keep hosting the full software of the old Wikis so they can be writeable. - Ask people to *delete* things they migrated. - Consider aborting the migration to GitHub given that it has been running for months and it seems like nobody wants to finish it. 3 Wikis were enough already, we shouldn't start a new one if we cannot even finish the migration of the old new ones. -- Maintainer of the Web of Trust and Freetalk subprojects of Freenet https://freenetproject.org___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl Ian ClarkeStacks - Our AI will save your moneyhttp://trystacks.com/ ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha
Thanks for the update and your hard work on this! On Wed, Feb 15, 2017, 9:42 PM Dan Roberts wrote: > Just a quick update. I ran into an issue that cost me a lot of time. > Frustratingly it was something I removed when I first uploaded to github. > I've found that trivial issues cause difficult to trace errors in pelican. > > I'm still moving forward, but I did have this setback. I have a three day > weekend so I'll be pushing very hard through Monday to get everything in > order. Ideally I'll seek feedback Saturday and/or Sunday and prepare for > release Monday, this last 20% has been rough but the end is in sight. > > Thanks, > Dan > > On Feb 9, 2017 6:15 PM, "Dan Roberts" wrote: > > Hey Ian, > I didn't have a whole lot of time last weekend but I've been squeezing > in time during the week as my week permitted... I'm planning to set aside > most of this weekend to work on it though, I should be able to address all > of the known issues during that time, so we're getting very close. > > Thanks, > Dan > > On Wed, Feb 8, 2017 at 7:41 AM, Ian Clarke wrote: > > Hey Dan, > > How are things going with the new website? Are we close to going live > with it? > > Ian. > > > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 1:19 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote: > > > Ian Clarke writes: > > > > On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 5:34 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de > wrote:A > > >> More importantly: However they are shown: We are lacking screenshots. > > > We should only include screenshots if they don't detract from the clean > design. > > > Do people install programs nowadays when they don’t get a screenshot? (a > > few years ago, missing screenshots were the easiest way to loose most > > visitors). > > > >> Leap over censorship > > >> Escape total surveillance > > > I was never a big fan of this tagline, it's a somewhat tortured pun. > When did > > > we get rid of the Mike Godwin quote? > > > I don’t know why we did that, but I always disagreed with removing it. > > > My point is: We need a strong tagline. > > > > > “After running the Tor services for years it was a big relief to just > > > > shut down the services for good and say ’fuck it’. I never again > > > > had to worry no more about security. With Freenet I am Free, it > > > > suites the name pretty well if you ask me.” > > > > — Unkwon > > > > > > I don't think we should have swear-words on the site, definitely not on > the > > > front page. It would look immature. > > > Steve said that, too, and I agree with you both. We can simply remove > > that part of the quote. > > > Best wishes, > > Arne > > -- > > Unpolitisch sein > > heißt politisch sein > > ohne es zu merken > > ___ > > Devl mailing list > > Devl@freenetproject.org > > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > > > > Ian Clarke > Stacks - Our AI will save your money > http://trystacks.com/ > > > > -- Stacks http://trystacks.com/ - Our AI will save you money ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha
Hey Dan, How are things going with the new website? Are we close to going live with it? Ian. On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 1:19 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote: Ian Clarke writes: > On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 5:34 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote:A >> More importantly: However they are shown: We are lacking screenshots. > We should only include screenshots if they don't detract from the clean design. Do people install programs nowadays when they don’t get a screenshot? (a few years ago, missing screenshots were the easiest way to loose most visitors). >> Leap over censorship >> Escape total surveillance > I was never a big fan of this tagline, it's a somewhat tortured pun. When did > we get rid of the Mike Godwin quote? I don’t know why we did that, but I always disagreed with removing it. My point is: We need a strong tagline. > > “After running the Tor services for years it was a big relief to just > > shut down the services for good and say ’fuck it’. I never again > > had to worry no more about security. With Freenet I am Free, it > > suites the name pretty well if you ask me.” > > — Unkwon > > I don't think we should have swear-words on the site, definitely not on the > front page. It would look immature. Steve said that, too, and I agree with you both. We can simply remove that part of the quote. Best wishes, Arne -- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein ohne es zu merken ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl Ian ClarkeStacks - Our AI will save your moneyhttp://trystacks.com/ ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha
On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 5:34 AM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote:A random thought (no requirement): It would be cool if we could show some content from Freenet within the rabbit shape. Maybe adding a twinkling eye to the rabbit, followed by short flashes of screenshots. Hmm, not sure about that, I think it might detract from the clean design. More importantly: However they are shown: We are lacking screenshots. We should only include screenshots if they don't detract from the clean design. About the content: The tagline ("browse ... ") sounds weak and does not make it clear that you can only access content within Freenet. That is stronger on our current site, though still not perfectly clear that this is only for sites in Freenet: > Leap over censorship > Escape total surveillance I was never a big fan of this tagline, it's a somewhat tortured pun. When did we get rid of the Mike Godwin quote? “After running the Tor services for years it was a big relief to just shut down the services for good and say ’fuck it’. I never again had to worry no more about security. With Freenet I am Free, it suites the name pretty well if you ask me.” — Unkwon I don't think we should have swear-words on the site, definitely not on the front page. It would look immature. Ian. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha
I use FB, and we already have a Freenet page - https://www.facebook.com/freenetp2p/ It's not well maintained, but it is getting about 15 likes per week or so. If anyone would like to assist with it let me know. On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 4:07 PM, Arne Babenhauserheide arne_...@web.de wrote: Hi, Dan Roberts writes: > Ian: Are you comfortable with creating social media accounts for Freenet? > Our design assumes their existence. I think a Facebook account is > worthwhile in any case. As far as I know we have a twitter account. Does anyone among us use Facebook (so is there someone who could routinely monitor the account)? Best wishes, Arne -- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein ohne es zu merken ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl Ian ClarkeStacks - Our AI will save your moneyhttp://trystacks.com/ ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Website Redesign Pre-pre-alpha
Thanks Dan, will take a look. Looking forward to being able to see it in its full rendered form. On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 1:44 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote: Hey Everybody, I've been (and am) extremely short on time recently, but I uploaded the pelican port of the website redesign to https://github.com/Ademan-laptop/freenet-website-redesign-pelican At this moment it's not at parity with the Jekyll version, but I'll be continuing to work on that. I didn't want to sit on it any longer so here it is in its current state. Translation of content is achieved with a plugin markdown_i18n which allows us to translate pages piecemeal like we've wanted. After I fix some of the more glaring regressions from the pelican port I'll upload the generated site as well. Thanks, Dan ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl Ian ClarkeStacks - Our AI will save your moneyhttp://trystacks.com/ ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?
Great Dan! Could you get it up somewhere to get feedback, and perhaps a Google Doc or something similar for people to report any issues? On Mon, Jan 9, 2017 9:38 AM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote: The front page is working, with a small number of known issues that I think have solutions for. The content pages (about, download) need a bit more work. I'll try to get the current state into github during the week, I expect at least one more revision after that. Thanks,Dan On Jan 3, 2017 8:45 PM, "Dan Roberts" wrote: Hey Ian, I didn't end up with as much time as I'd hoped/expected, but one of my experiments is promising. I'm working on turning it into a first (pelican) iteration of the site. I'd like to have it ready Saturday to polish over this coming weekend. Thanks,Dan On Jan 2, 2017 8:19 AM, "Ian Clarke" wrote: Thanks Dan, were you able to make the progressed you had hoped for? Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 4:34 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote: Unfortunately I didn't find much time between work and three different sets of family, but I believe I can carve out time this weekend. I expect a very low key new years. I have a prospective solution to my biggest pelican concern that I'm very happy with, I'll try to update again this weekend. Thanks,Dan On Dec 25, 2016 3:24 PM, "Ian Clarke" wrote: Thanks for the update Dan, merry xmas. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 5:02 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote: I'm trying to find some time to fully exercise the parts of pelican we need. I still have some concerns and issues I ran into last weekend in my initial exploration, but I'm hopeful they're not showstoppers. Thanks,Dan On Dec 23, 2016 11:34 AM, "Ian Clarke" wrote: Hey guys, this conversation seems to have died. Florent/Dan, are you guys on the same page about how we should proceed? Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 5:09 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 4:18 PM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Sat, 2016-12-17 at 10:44 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote: > It is my impression that retaining our transifex translations is a > requirement. I don't think so (we are supposed to re-write/de-clutter the content!); I agree, I the content on the main website must be simplified dramatically relative to what we have now, focussing on the needs of those interested in downloading and using Freenet, and donating to the project. This is a commonly used approach for consumer-facing open source software (eg. https://getfirefox.com/), and I think we should emulate it. "Deeper" content, more relevant to researchers, or developers, should be migrated to a separate wiki (perhaps hosted on Github) - although as an interim measure we can keep the old site around on a different URL. Of course we will provide links to it where appropriate from the main site so it is findable. The perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good. My inclination is to get the new site up ASAP, translations and content can catch up (and will be much easier with a simplified website). I think with a website that looks really good it will also be a good motivator for people to contribute to improve it. From a devops perspective, I think an ideal situation would be to have a limited number of people that can merge pull-requests for the site (but not so limited that it proves to be a bottleneck), and then a merge to master results in an automatic roll-out of the improved site. Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?
Thanks Dan, were you able to make the progressed you had hoped for? Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 4:34 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote: Unfortunately I didn't find much time between work and three different sets of family, but I believe I can carve out time this weekend. I expect a very low key new years. I have a prospective solution to my biggest pelican concern that I'm very happy with, I'll try to update again this weekend. Thanks,Dan On Dec 25, 2016 3:24 PM, "Ian Clarke" wrote: Thanks for the update Dan, merry xmas. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 5:02 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote: I'm trying to find some time to fully exercise the parts of pelican we need. I still have some concerns and issues I ran into last weekend in my initial exploration, but I'm hopeful they're not showstoppers. Thanks,Dan On Dec 23, 2016 11:34 AM, "Ian Clarke" wrote: Hey guys, this conversation seems to have died. Florent/Dan, are you guys on the same page about how we should proceed? Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 5:09 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 4:18 PM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Sat, 2016-12-17 at 10:44 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote: > It is my impression that retaining our transifex translations is a > requirement. I don't think so (we are supposed to re-write/de-clutter the content!); I agree, I the content on the main website must be simplified dramatically relative to what we have now, focussing on the needs of those interested in downloading and using Freenet, and donating to the project. This is a commonly used approach for consumer-facing open source software (eg. https://getfirefox.com/), and I think we should emulate it. "Deeper" content, more relevant to researchers, or developers, should be migrated to a separate wiki (perhaps hosted on Github) - although as an interim measure we can keep the old site around on a different URL. Of course we will provide links to it where appropriate from the main site so it is findable. The perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good. My inclination is to get the new site up ASAP, translations and content can catch up (and will be much easier with a simplified website). I think with a website that looks really good it will also be a good motivator for people to contribute to improve it. From a devops perspective, I think an ideal situation would be to have a limited number of people that can merge pull-requests for the site (but not so limited that it proves to be a bottleneck), and then a merge to master results in an automatic roll-out of the improved site. Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?
Thanks for the update Dan, merry xmas. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org On Sun, Dec 25, 2016 5:02 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote: I'm trying to find some time to fully exercise the parts of pelican we need. I still have some concerns and issues I ran into last weekend in my initial exploration, but I'm hopeful they're not showstoppers. Thanks,Dan On Dec 23, 2016 11:34 AM, "Ian Clarke" wrote: Hey guys, this conversation seems to have died. Florent/Dan, are you guys on the same page about how we should proceed? Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 5:09 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 4:18 PM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Sat, 2016-12-17 at 10:44 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote: > It is my impression that retaining our transifex translations is a > requirement. I don't think so (we are supposed to re-write/de-clutter the content!); I agree, I the content on the main website must be simplified dramatically relative to what we have now, focussing on the needs of those interested in downloading and using Freenet, and donating to the project. This is a commonly used approach for consumer-facing open source software (eg. https://getfirefox.com/), and I think we should emulate it. "Deeper" content, more relevant to researchers, or developers, should be migrated to a separate wiki (perhaps hosted on Github) - although as an interim measure we can keep the old site around on a different URL. Of course we will provide links to it where appropriate from the main site so it is findable. The perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good. My inclination is to get the new site up ASAP, translations and content can catch up (and will be much easier with a simplified website). I think with a website that looks really good it will also be a good motivator for people to contribute to improve it. From a devops perspective, I think an ideal situation would be to have a limited number of people that can merge pull-requests for the site (but not so limited that it proves to be a bottleneck), and then a merge to master results in an automatic roll-out of the improved site. Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?
Hey guys, this conversation seems to have died. Florent/Dan, are you guys on the same page about how we should proceed? Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 5:09 PM, Ian Clarke i...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 4:18 PM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Sat, 2016-12-17 at 10:44 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote: > It is my impression that retaining our transifex translations is a > requirement. I don't think so (we are supposed to re-write/de-clutter the content!); I agree, I the content on the main website must be simplified dramatically relative to what we have now, focussing on the needs of those interested in downloading and using Freenet, and donating to the project. This is a commonly used approach for consumer-facing open source software (eg. https://getfirefox.com/), and I think we should emulate it. "Deeper" content, more relevant to researchers, or developers, should be migrated to a separate wiki (perhaps hosted on Github) - although as an interim measure we can keep the old site around on a different URL. Of course we will provide links to it where appropriate from the main site so it is findable. The perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good. My inclination is to get the new site up ASAP, translations and content can catch up (and will be much easier with a simplified website). I think with a website that looks really good it will also be a good motivator for people to contribute to improve it. From a devops perspective, I think an ideal situation would be to have a limited number of people that can merge pull-requests for the site (but not so limited that it proves to be a bottleneck), and then a merge to master results in an automatic roll-out of the improved site. Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?
On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 4:18 PM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Sat, 2016-12-17 at 10:44 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote: > It is my impression that retaining our transifex translations is a > requirement. I don't think so (we are supposed to re-write/de-clutter the content!); I agree, I the content on the main website must be simplified dramatically relative to what we have now, focussing on the needs of those interested in downloading and using Freenet, and donating to the project. This is a commonly used approach for consumer-facing open source software (eg. https://getfirefox.com/), and I think we should emulate it. "Deeper" content, more relevant to researchers, or developers, should be migrated to a separate wiki (perhaps hosted on Github) - although as an interim measure we can keep the old site around on a different URL. Of course we will provide links to it where appropriate from the main site so it is findable. The perfect shouldn't be the enemy of the good. My inclination is to get the new site up ASAP, translations and content can catch up (and will be much easier with a simplified website). I think with a website that looks really good it will also be a good motivator for people to contribute to improve it. From a devops perspective, I think an ideal situation would be to have a limited number of people that can merge pull-requests for the site (but not so limited that it proves to be a bottleneck), and then a merge to master results in an automatic roll-out of the improved site. Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?
On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 10:36 AM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote: On Sat, 2016-12-17 at 16:11 +, Ian Clarke wrote: > Weren't we going to host on AWS? I don't know, that's why I am asking... Dan? I think your input is required here. I have suggested either hugo or pelican with AWS lambda (for a completely serverless, trendy infrastructure) OR using github-pages (with jekyll) and putting some CDN in front (cloudflare, cloudfront, whatever) I have not offered to help maintain something ruby based. For clarity, you're saying you would not help to set up a CDN in front of github-pages because it is Ruby based? I assume that would be ok since Github is administering Jekyll, not us. I wish it was that simple. AWS lambda doesn't support ruby as runtime... so you have to ship/maintain your own... and write the glue code in any of the languages that are supported (java, c#, node, python). You get billed when your code runs... so the naive approach of doing what you've described above can turn out to be bloody expensive (network round-trip to debian mirrors, then to gem, then to bundler, ...) That assumes we're using AWS lambda. At the end of the day, I don't care... I've said it in the past; we are picking the worst and most convoluted solution possible. I've been ignored and can live with it; just don't count on me to make it happen. Well, if you're opposed to it then that's what we'll do! :) I don't have an axe to grind here, I'm just trying to have a discussion the outcome of which will hopefully be a good approach. If Dan has built his work on Jekyll then I'm worried it might be a lot of additional work to switch to something else like Hugo or Pelican, but perhaps I'm wrong about that. Ideally I'd love to outsource our hosting to Github completely to reduce or eliminate our devops workload, but it seems we can't do that without compromising on i18n. Perhaps the best solution is to switch to Hugh or Pelican and then use AWS lambda, assuming that can handle i18n, and assuming it won't be an excessive amount of work to migrate from Jekyll. Either way, Dan's input is needed here. Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?
Weren't we going to host on AWS? What is the problem with maintaining a Ruby stack exactly? Isn't it just a question of installing whatever is required for Jekyll and perhaps upgrading it once in a blue moon? Isn't it just a question of: $ sudo apt get install rubygems$ gem install jekyll bundler And then periodically upgrading? Ian. On Sat, Dec 17, 2016 5:23 AM, Florent Daigniere nextg...@freenetproject.org wrote: So what is the plan for hosting if github pages can't do it? As I wrote before, expecting release managers to maintain a ruby stack (on top of the existing java/python one) is a no-go. Florent On Sat, 2016-12-17 at 01:27 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Status update. The simple jekyll plugin I wrote works, with a > couple of known issues. It will allow us to use our existing transifex > translations unmodified (something I don't think we were going to get > out-of-the-box anywhere). It depends on the ruby gettext gem. The site > still needs some massaging to match the transifex strings, but you can > see the translation work for parts of /about.de/ which is > automatically generated by the plugin. For each locales/${LOCALE}.po > there will be a ${PAGE}.${LOCALE} file generated. > > Tomorrow (saturday 12-17) I'm going to fix the known issues with the > plugin, and QA the translation tags to ensure our translation keys > match what is already translated (I may consider automating it using > the existing site generator, we'll see how obnoxious it gets). I'll > also be implementing a language selector UI. > > The source code is at https://github.com/Ademan-laptop/freenet-website > -redesign though beware the history is ugly, I will be cleaning it at > some point, but I wanted to be sure to update before the weekend. > Obviously with the plugin dependency it is no longer viewable on > github. > > Thanks, > Dan > > On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 1:32 PM, Dan Roberts > wrote: > > I gave a few updates on IRC but I apologize for not updating the ML, > > I didn't foresee how long I would be stalled. I've had some personal > > issues going on which ate not only my weekends but several work days > > of both last week and this week. I don't expect to lose any more > > time from the aforementioned issues but it's not impossible. > > > > I intend to finish the Jekyll plugin this afternoon so that we can > > use existing translations, the proof of concept from the other > > weekend worked well. After that we can stand it up somewhere for QA. > > I do need to add a language selector, that is not present in the > > design we bought so I'll use my best judgement and we'll move it > > later. > > > > Thanks, > > Dan > > > > On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 11:18 AM, Ian Clarke > > wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Florent Daigniere > > etproject.org> wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2016-12-10 at 13:40 +, Ian Clarke wrote: > > > > > Hey guys, it's been quite a while at this point, and we're > > > > still > > > > > stuck with the old website. > > > > > What's the current status of getting the new site up? > > > > > > > > I can't make any progress until there is something to deploy... > > > > I > > > > haven't heard from Dan. > > > > > > That's worrying... > > > > > > > > If necessary we should spend some more of our donation to make > > > > this > > > > > happen (we've already invested in getting the original design > > > > done, > > > > > and yet we've received no benefit from it yet). > > > > > > > > > > > > > Agreed; a big piece of it is the content re-design (for which I > > > > haven't > > > > seen any plan). > > > > > > We start by categorizing our different audiences, I think this has > > > been discussed. Users, donors, and developers are the major > > > categories IIRC. IMHO the website should focus on the first two, > > > and this will probably require a limited amount of content. For > > > developers a companion wiki is probably the best approach. > > > > > > Ian. > > > > > > -- > > > Ian Clarke > > > Founder, The Freenet Project > > > Email: i...@freenetproject.org > > > > > > > > > ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?
On Sat, Dec 10, 2016 at 9:51 AM, Florent Daigniere < nextg...@freenetproject.org> wrote: > On Sat, 2016-12-10 at 13:40 +0000, Ian Clarke wrote: > > Hey guys, it's been quite a while at this point, and we're still > > stuck with the old website. > > What's the current status of getting the new site up? > > I can't make any progress until there is something to deploy... I > haven't heard from Dan. > That's worrying... > > If necessary we should spend some more of our donation to make this > > happen (we've already invested in getting the original design done, > > and yet we've received no benefit from it yet). > > > > Agreed; a big piece of it is the content re-design (for which I haven't > seen any plan). > We start by categorizing our different audiences, I think this has been discussed. Users, donors, and developers are the major categories IIRC. IMHO the website should focus on the first two, and this will probably require a limited amount of content. For developers a companion wiki is probably the best approach. Ian. -- Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Anyone want to improve our Wikipedia page?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenet Wikipedia is flagging a few issues with the article, that should be easy enough to address, specifically requiring additional citations, and insufficient inline citations. If you want to edit the page, be sure to familiarize yourself with the Wikipedia rules: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ten_Simple_Rules_for_Editing_Wikipedia If you do edit the page please be careful to stick to these guidelines. Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Status of web redesign?
Hey guys, it's been quite a while at this point, and we're still stuck with the old website. What's the current status of getting the new site up? If necessary we should spend some more of our donation to make this happen (we've already invested in getting the original design done, and yet we've received no benefit from it yet). Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Poll results available; Temporary quit as potential employee
On Fri, Dec 9, 2016 2:07 AM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote: Ian and Florent have voiced concerns about whether my involvement in the poll could be influenced by the prospect of me benefiting financially by potentially being able to resume my job for Freenet. I don't think this is what I said, nor do I believe it to be necessary. My point was that I didn't agree with the idea that we would abandon our prioritization process and let you work on whatever you wanted. In return I would be very thankful if our team's atmosphere could become less toxic in the future - not only towards me, but among *everyone* on the project. The bad climate between all of us *was* one of the reasons for me to quit my offer; and I'm not the only one who thinks we have a problem with our work climate, someone else even left as a volunteer because of it. I agree, and I'm sorry for any part I played in contributing to the bad atmosphere. Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Internationalization on the new site
Since you guys (Dan and Florent) are the two guys volunteering to do the actual work here, I'm hopeful you can come to an agreement between you about how to proceed, otherwise we'll be dead in the water with it (which is exactly what I had hoped to avoid). We do now have a credit card and so we can easily set things up on AWS, which would seem to give us a lot more flexibility, given the difficulties with internationalization and Github Pages. Ian. On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 5:47 PM, Dan Roberts ademan...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Florent, I understand you're averse to the ruby ecosystem, and for good reason, however I see jekyll+plugins as the path of least resistance between us and a functioning site. I want to constrain the scope of this work, and I am afraid that a survey of static site generators and translation tools will further expand the scope. This evening I believe I can implement a simple jekyll plugin that will allow us to re-use the existing translations, which I believe to be a requirement of this work. Thanks,Dan On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 at 2:23 PM, Florent Daigniere wrote: There is a misunderstanding here... either we can satisfy ourselves with github pages' version of jekyll and plugins... or we won't use jekyll at all. The last thing we need is a jekyll plugin that we can't use on github pages! Ian has arranged for the project to have a debit card ... so now we have more options open. My favourite would be to explore what can be done with pontoon. Florent On Sun, 2016-11-27 at 12:23 -0800, Dan Roberts wrote: > We had some discussions in IRC over the past week around the i18n, > modifying content vs deploying as-is, and gettext. Since we dropped > github > pages as our target, I'm looking into writing a small plugin for > Jekyll > today to aid i18n support, I'm also going to double check that there's > no > existing plugin that's appropriate. Provided jekyll allows it, I think > its > should be a reasonably simple plugin and provide the quickest way > forward. > > Thanks, > > Dan > > On Nov 27, 2016 9:21 AM, "Ian Clarke" wrote: > > > Guys, where are we on this? It's been several weeks since the last > > update. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 1:10 AM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote: > > > > > On Wednesday, November 02, 2016 10:52:39 PM Dan Roberts wrote: > > > > > > > I'm doing my best to avoid any "design" decisions, so I had no > > > > plan to > > > > include the bank balance, but it definitely has value. > > > > > > > > > The project is way too large to operate solely as a volunteer > > > thing, we > > > need > > > > > > to have a plan how to get more funds. > > > > > > Also, getting funds has been difficult recently, so IMHO it should > > > be > > > > > > permanently visible on the index page. > > > > > > > > > Personally I think there are two aspects: > > > > > > > > > 1. The site should permanently at least in small size say > > > something like > > > "Our > > > > > > current funds will pay N months of development". > > > > > > > > > The dollar value itself is irrelevant to potential donors as > > > outsiders > > > cannot > > > > > > judge how much dollars development costs. Also "We have $20 000" > > > will > > > sound > > > > > > like very much to non-IT-folks and discourage donations, while IT > > > people > > > know > > > > > > that this is very little in terms of how expensive IT is. > > > > > > > > > 2. > > > > > > Realistically we run out of money once a year, which is rather > > > frequent, > > > so we > > > > > > already need to plan for a more large request for donations during > > > the > > > time > > > > > > where our money is low. > > > > > > > > > A donation progress bar like with the old site IMHO is the best > > > approach. > > > > > > It should span the site in full width. > > > > > > > > > Optionally, a small version of the bar could be used at 1. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you don't feel like being capable of doing this with the design > > > templates > > > > > > you have, can you maybe ask Ian to request something from the > > > original > > > > > > designer?___ > > > > > > Devl mailing list > > > > > > Devl@freenetproject.org > > > > > > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > > > > > > > > > Ian Clarke > > Stacks - Our AI will save your money > > http://trystacks.com/ > > > > > > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl@freenetproject.org > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl Ian ClarkeStacks - Our AI will save your moneyhttp://trystacks.com/ ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Ian et al: Poll conclusions
On Sun, Nov 27, 2016 12:30 PM, x...@freenetproject.org wrote:> I really don't understand how this could have been such a roadblock. If > there is obvious abuse then we just ignore that feedback. Why is this so > hard? It seems like you're looking for reasons to declare a democratic > process is a failure. First of all, I *am* completely willing to do these difficult decisions. Just not as a volunteer-looking-to-be-hired, the job decision has to happen first. So propose objective criteria to weed out bad votes, and then stick to those objective criteria. > I agree, and I have agreed many times - the problem isn't that I'm clinging > on to "power", the problem is the lack of someone with the enthusiasm, > vision, and ability to take over coordination of the project, or at least > to share this responsibility and push things forward. If I have overlooked > anyone suitable raising their hand then please let me know. Good :) My mail was precisely intended as a request for what you're asking for here - I'd like to call the shots again. Are the 50 hours/month I spend on Freenet currently sufficient to count as "enthusiasm" ? :) You only seem interested in working on WoT, which is only one component of Freenet. The $25k donation was for the entire project, not just one component of it. I also feel it is a conflict of interests for the person that gets paid to work to also be the one that decides what to work on. Wouldn't we all want that job?> The old approach is not a responsible way to deploy $25k. I do feel it is unfair if you say such things to me considering you did not even *see* the previous approach: You weren't in "the office", aka IRC. How can you judge whether my approach of talking to the community was acceptable if you didn't even attend our common workplace? And this is exactly the problem, the lack of transparency. People shouldn't have to loiter in a IRC room just to have visibility into how decisions are being made and why. Also I wrote very detailed invoices and sent all of them to you, Matthew and Steve for review. There weren't any complaints as far as I remember. Why do you complain now when I cannot change anything about it anymore? Nobody can change the past, but we can change the future, that's what we are now discussing. This certainly feels a lot like the common trope of the management never being at the office at all and then suddenly appearing and telling everyone how everything they're doing is wrong. I'm sorry to say so; but I'm very certainly not the only one who has had this feeling. Many other of your "employees", i.e. volunteers, are displeased as well and have voiced that in length on IRC. - Which is why I'd like us to just stop the arguing and figure out the quickest way to make someone produce code instead of flamewars :) Honestly, the fact that your proposal is that we spend the donation to pay you to do whatever you decide to do is very self serving, and it's hard not to question your motives. You're basically asking to get paid to do whatever you want, which mostly seems to be to work on your own subproject, WoT, with little oversight or accountability. That doesn't seem like a responsible use of funds. Clearly I didn't expect it would take 6 months to get through this prioritization process (which still isn't done). But we have to figure out a better way to decide how to deploy or resources than "pay Xor to work on whatever he wants". Ian. Ian Clarke Founder, The Freenet Project Email: i...@freenetproject.org ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl