[e-gold-list] Re: don't get keyboard sniffed

[Mark S. Ohberg]

Craig Spencer wrote:

> Environmentalism is a "chicken little" con game.  The envionmentalists
> cry "the sky is falling" to convince people they have to go along with
> totalitarianism to save the world.
>
> This is not something new.  It seems that it was basically the basis of
> the power of the Mayan kings.  The conned everyone in believing their
> holding power was necessary to keep the world in existance.
>
> Pascal's wager is niether innocent or a safe bet.  The downside is
> basically
> the complete loss of your freedom.  While the upside is a silly
> superstitious illusion.
>
> JP is right on.
>
> > It's all about freedom - in the case of E-gold, freedom to choose or
> > create and use your own currency. In the case of enviromentalism,
> > freedom of sentient beings to enjoy life, liberty, etc.
>
> You could not be more wrong.  Perhaps you have some concept of
> environmentalism that is compatible with liberty but you are changing
> the meaning of the word from what nearly everybody else means by it
> and this is disingenuous.  Real enviromentalists are not interested
> in the welfare of sentient beings; their hardly hidden aim is the
> extermination of all intelligent life.
>
> CCS

Sentient, Spiritual, Environmentalist here,
On behalf of my community on the Hudson River we challenged a status quo that
said all was expendable in the name of business and profit.  That business
could take, use, destroy, and control the public domain, and ruin peoples
health, for their own gain.  We accomplished change through sheer will and
perseverance.  The freedom and right to defend your community as proven to be
upheld by ancient legal doctrines dating back to the code of Justinian, that
are the foundation of modern American democracy!

You can use these ancient rights to fight your local polluter and make it pay
for abusing your community.  All you need do is spot the phony organization,
greenwashing, and junk science that anti environmental forces are foisting on
an unwitting public.  In the US, Fight members of Congress who with their hired
guns in public relations firms and ad agencies are trying to convince you that
saving your local community from pollution is
Costly
Bad for local business and taxes
Anti American
is a Loss of your Freedom
communism / socialism
Taking the food out of baby's mouth

OH I'M SORRY.IS THIS THE E-GAD LIST OR THE E-GOLD LIST...
Well what ever.
SAVE TREES USE E-GOLD




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[e-gold-list] If you have been ripped off, contact me!

[Ken Griffith]

If you have been ripped off by the "goldmine" account, please e-mail me at
this address.  If the people who have been hit compare notes, it should be
possible to find a pattern and maybe even catch the bastard.

Ken Griffith


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[e-gold-list] Security measures and DIRT

[Ken Griffith]

Gentlemen,

  I have been working on an article on how to protect your e-gold passwords,
but in light of the recent discussion, I'll post some of the stuff early.

As someone pointed out, using the same password on multiple websites is the
best way to get your money stolen, but Trojans that insert keyboard sniffers
are a serious problem too.  Having a different account number for spends
will hardly make a difference in keyboard sniffer attacks, so people should
stop suggesting it. (Do I hear a broken record?)  If e-gold really wanted to
solve the problem they should ADD DIGITAL CERTIFICATE SUPPORT and encourage
people to use an offline device to store passwords or private keys.  (For
example, see this affordable biometric system:
http://www.digitalpersona.com/index.htm )

In fact, the only REAL long term solution is to go completely over to
digital-bearer-instruments (digital cash) instead of book-entry systems, but
until then, here's how to protect your account:

You need to make sure that your password is unique to your e-gold account,
and that it is very difficult to guess.  Ie, it should have no words in it
that are found in a dictionary.  (Again, the biometric system from U. are U.
generates passwords that are dervied from a cryptographic hash of your
fingerprint. http://www.digitalpersona.com/index.htm )

BEFORE you get a good password, or even open an account, you need to protect
yourself against trojans.  (Why, because a keyboard sniffer can catch your
passwords when you open the account to begin with.)  There are three
differente types of protection that you need:

1. Every computer accessing the net should have FIREWALL software installed
on it.  If a trojan succeeds in planting a sniffer on your computer, the
firewall will usually block the outgoing packets so the dirtbag who sent it
can't get your password.

2. Use ANTIVIRUS software to protect against trojans.  The only problem is
that AV doesn't detect NEW trojans (or DIRT).  And there are now "worm kits"
available on the net that allow any idiot to slap together a new trojan in
no time.  This means a smart hacker who identifies you as a target need
merely create a new trojan specifically targeted at you.  (By the way, these
e-gold thieves are probably subscribers to this list.  Hmmm.)

3. To prevent NEW targeted trojans that slip by your AV software you need
Finjan's Surfin Guard Pro (www.finjan.com).Finjan's products are
classified as "active defense".  They monotor incoming attachments for
hostile behavior and block them before they can execute.  Their free product
blocks hushmail applets, so you should purchase their personal edition that
lets you choose which sites to trust content from.

I contacted the president of Finjan, Carl Rosenberg, and asked him if his
product can stop DIRT, the trojan that is sold to law enforcement agencies.
DIRT is quite similar to the Trojan known as "BO".  He said it will stop
DIRT if Finjan protection is installed when it is sent to you.  BUT, if DIRT
is already on your computer, then neither Finjan nor AV programs will detect
it.

Here is how to check your computer for the DIRT trojan:

Because it isn't presently detected by anti-virus software, one does have to
look for evidence of it. By default, it installs two files in the C:\WINDOWS
directory -- DESKTOP.EXE and DESKTOP.DLL. If you find either of those files,
you need to remove them and any associated files (such as .LOG files), or
re-format your HDD to be on the safe side.

One can also check your Windows Registry for any references to DESKTOP.EXE
or DESKTOP.DLL, likely to be found under the following keys:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\MICROSOFT\WINDOWS\CurrentVersion
HKEY_USERS\SOFTWARE\MICROSOFT\WINDOWS\CurrentVersion
HKEY_USERS\DEFAULT\SOFTWARE\MICROSOFT\WINDOWS\CurrentVersion

You can read more about dirt at the following URL:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/8/19480.html

Hope this helps,
Ken Griffith


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[e-gold-list] Re: don't get keyboard sniffed

[Craig Spencer]

> Think of it as a Pascal's wager kind of thing - maybe you'll be
> "wrong" trying to do your part to combat global warming, but conserving
> energy and promoting alternative fuels can be its own reward - and if
> you're right it helps in the big picture too!

Environmentalism is a "chicken little" con game.  The envionmentalists
cry "the sky is falling" to convince people they have to go along with
totalitarianism to save the world.

This is not something new.  It seems that it was basically the basis of
the power of the Mayan kings.  The conned everyone in believing their
holding power was necessary to keep the world in existance.

Pascal's wager is niether innocent or a safe bet.  The downside is
basically 
the complete loss of your freedom.  While the upside is a silly 
superstitious illusion.
  
JP is right on.

> It's all about freedom - in the case of E-gold, freedom to choose or
> create and use your own currency. In the case of enviromentalism, 
> freedom of sentient beings to enjoy life, liberty, etc.

You could not be more wrong.  Perhaps you have some concept of 
environmentalism that is compatible with liberty but you are changing
the meaning of the word from what nearly everybody else means by it
and this is disingenuous.  Real enviromentalists are not interested 
in the welfare of sentient beings; their hardly hidden aim is the 
extermination of all intelligent life.

CCS

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[e-gold-list] Re: PS

[Mark S. Ohberg]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> sorry for ranting about global warming! :)
>

Its all right jpm,  the part of the globe where you are is warm already.
However You lost me on the Santa Clause thread!

Warm Rgds
Mark S. Ohberg


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[e-gold-list] PS

[jpm]

sorry for ranting about global warming! :)

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[e-gold-list] Re: today's test

[jpm]

>Gold passed it's test today:
>http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/81

and how!  it appears to be making ANOTHER flag, rather making a channel.

Perhaps it will go flag-spike-flag-spike-flag-spike ?  Nail-biting stuff.

>http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/61
>
>nem didn't had a test to pass:
>http://stocks.tradingcharts.com/stocks/charts/nem/d
>--
>http://www.bearerinstruments.com
>
> A Directory of Web sites and Internet
>  presences accepting non-fiat monies.


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[e-gold-list] Re: don't get keyboard sniffed

[jpm]

>> Thus, just some examples below of how totally and utterly ridiculous
>> "global warming" is.  ANY of these items, taken on their own, utterly
>
>[E-gold related discussion a bit further on in this post]
>
>I think there are many sides to the "global warming" argument, people
>should go out and inform themselves. Here are a set of links both pro
>and con to start from:
>
>http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~het/globalwarming.html#GWDenierSites
>
>Personally I like this one to start with:
>http://www.ucsusa.org/warming/gw.faq.html
>
>Think of it as a Pascal's wager kind of thing - maybe you'll be
>"wrong" trying to do your part to combat global warming, but conserving
>energy and promoting alternative fuels can be its own reward - and if
>you're right it helps in the big picture too!


I believe, like many intelligent people, you've been "conned", Hank.

Consider the Santa Claus example:  OK, "say, Santa MIGHT be real, so 
you might as well put out cookies".

Well no.  Pascal's wager doesn't apply to something nonsensical.

(i) There Is No global warming.  untold, endless evidence shows this.

(ii) The Concept Is Meaningless.  Totally nonsensical.   An ant 
sitting on the pacific ocean saying "hey! I believe our political 
policies will result in the water level going up by a hundreth of an 
inch over the next 50 years!"

It's just MEANINGLESS.  It does not even PARSE, it MEANS NOTHING. 
The ant's ocean continually bounces up and down by yards as a normal 
course of action and is affected by vast numbers of things . waves, 
tides, wakes, etc.

For instance, some of the "global warmers" are SO SPECTAULRLY STUPID 
you hear this talk about "oh, it could mean that sea levels will 
rise/lower/whatever"

***THE ENTIRETY OF EUROPE AND NORTH AMERICAN, DOWN TO FLORIDA/NORTH 
AFRICA, WAS COVERED IN ICE*** as early as a score of thousand years 
ago, and will be again in a few thousand years.





>
>> My predicition: within ten years, enviromentalists will be
>> complaining that e-gold and other free market currencies make it too
>> easy to have "economic activity" that is unpatrolled by
>> environmentalism.
>
>I'm an "enviromentalist" that doesn't agree with you JP.




It's simply because you've been lied to.  Consider the recent 
sceintific report to the white house, the conclusion of which was 
(like "duh"), "global warming is inconclusive".

Tom Brokaw got on ythe nightly news and quite simply lied, saying 
"the report proves global warming will happen".

You need only simply read the report.

Look, how clear can it be.  I searched on the web and in one minute 
found ***AN ARTICLE BY AN AUTHOR OF THE REPORT*** stating this:



http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=95000606

"CNN's Michelle Mitchell was typical of the coverage
when she declared that the report represented "a unanimous decision
that global warming is real, is getting worse, and is due to man. There
is no wiggle room."

As one of 11 scientists who prepared the report, I can state 
that this is
simply untrue."




"As one of 11 scientists who prepared the report, I CAN STATE THAT 
THIS IS SIMPLY UNTRUE".



It's simply called "lying".

Tom Brokaw opens his mouth using his jaw muscles and LIES.  Utters 
sentences that have no connection to reality.

Eventually, otherwise intelligent people like, I suggest, yourself 
Hank, start to believe it.

Again, ***FIFTEEN THOUSAND*** scientists have now signed a document 
commenting that global warming is nutty.

What sort of greater consensus do you want?  50 thousand scientists 
... 200 thousand .. every living scientist?

There are three climatologists who have ever won a nobel prize; two 
of them (obviously) consider "global warming" foolish beneath 
discussion, the other one won't comment.

It's just a non-starter. Think about it logically.

As I say, there are DOZENS of knock-down obviosities (long the lines 
of "reindeer cant fly") that demolish the concept.  It's just not 
even sensible, it "doesn't parse".



I believe environmentalism has been co-opped by socialism.  The fact 
that utter junk science that does not even parse meaningfully, such 
as 'global warming' is now part of environmentalism, supports this. 
The modus operandi of socialism is to use junk science in some 
particular field to increase socialistic pressures.

The classic exposition of this is in _The Road to Serfdom_ where 50 
years ago Hayek explains this MO of socialism and predicts that at 
the end of the 20th century, socialists will have to cotton on to 
some new fantasy, and present it as "science", to try one last gasp 
at socialism after socialisms utter failure during the 20th century 
(obvious to Hayek at the time).  Later in his life, during the 
70s/80s, Hakek saw that this in fact was environmentalism!

how's that for a market call!  :)



> But your
>dead-on calls on gold prices lately have me worried about the
>possibilities
>on this call!! ;)
>
>It's all about

[e-gold-list] today's test

[Bob]

Gold passed it's test today:
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/81
http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/61

nem didn't had a test to pass:
http://stocks.tradingcharts.com/stocks/charts/nem/d
-- 
http://www.bearerinstruments.com

 A Directory of Web sites and Internet 
  presences accepting non-fiat monies.

http://www.bearerinstruments.com/assets/BIMDsPGPkey.txt
650C 51DA 734F 697F 5706 3D6A 7712 BCC9 D1AE 00BA

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[e-gold-list] Re: don't get keyboard sniffed

[Bob]

> Result: they do a Milliken on Doug, and slap a 30% tax on e-gold transactions.

Wasn't that something. They had most people believing Michael
Milken screwed people out of money and that his junk bonds
defaulted.

> e-gold will become a big "environmental" (ie socialist) issue.
> 
> (believe it or not - you heard it here first!)

:)

It's only the government top heavy economies with low GDP growth
rates and bad treatment of capital, like the US and Western Europe
that this will probably come from (countries currently doing the
Desperation Samba). On a positive note, China, most of the rest of the
Pacific Rim, Persian Gulf counties and South American countries are 
not conducive to Tree Huggers and financial account snooping 
(anti-money laundering rules/regs and laws).

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[e-gold-list] Re: don't get keyboard sniffed

[hankroark]

> Thus, just some examples below of how totally and utterly ridiculous 
> "global warming" is.  ANY of these items, taken on their own, utterly 

[E-gold related discussion a bit further on in this post]

I think there are many sides to the "global warming" argument, people
should go out and inform themselves. Here are a set of links both pro
and con to start from:

http://www.autobahn.mb.ca/~het/globalwarming.html#GWDenierSites

Personally I like this one to start with:
http://www.ucsusa.org/warming/gw.faq.html

Think of it as a Pascal's wager kind of thing - maybe you'll be
"wrong" trying to do your part to combat global warming, but conserving
energy and promoting alternative fuels can be its own reward - and if
you're right it helps in the big picture too!

> My predicition: within ten years, enviromentalists will be 
> complaining that e-gold and other free market currencies make it too 
> easy to have "economic activity" that is unpatrolled by 
> environmentalism.

I'm an "enviromentalist" that doesn't agree with you JP. But your
dead-on calls on gold prices lately have me worried about the
possibilities
on this call!! ;)
It's all about freedom - in the case of E-gold, freedom to choose or 
create and use your own currency. In the case of enviromentalism, freedom
of sentient beings to enjoy life, liberty, etc.
Some find close ties between libertarian and enviromental ideals. For
example:
http://www.teleport.com/~rot/faqs.html
For more, pick up a copy of "Bionomics" using e-gold now via 
http://www.metalproxy.com

Best,
HR

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[e-gold-list] Re: Funds stolen from Account

[Craig Spencer]

> You need to get together with the other poeple who have had $ stolen
> by "gold mine".
> 
> For instance, try to see a pattern in the time of day the money was
> stolen.  At least then it can be guessed where in the world they are.

It seems to me that one of the few things that could certainly be 
done is to compile a database on these heart breaking "hacker stole my 
password" reports.  This may not get anyone's money back.  But it
might turn up some correlations or information of value.

CCS

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[e-gold-list] Re: My security measures [Log-in #]

[SnowDog]

> You make an important point. Though there's still a touch
> of "It's OK to leave the door half open, because closing it
> won't protect you against a gang with a battering ram."
>
> Why make it easy for even relatively unskilled hackers to
> raid e-gold a/cs?

Even if you were to substitute a 'payment code' for an account number, then
someone, who had the ability to steal your password, could then steal the
'payment code', and then they could use this code to make a payment to
themselves, just like they would an account number.



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[e-gold-list] Re: My security measures [Log-in #]

[BigBooster]

You make an important point. Though there's still a touch
of "It's OK to leave the door half open, because closing it
won't protect you against a gang with a battering ram."

Why make it easy for even relatively unskilled hackers to
raid e-gold a/cs?

What becomes even clearer from your post is that it's
dangerous if hackers find out you have an e-gold a/c,
you use Windows, and your system is insecure.

Maybe e-gold and GoldMoney should provide clients with
some guidelines on how to make their systems more
secure. I no longer use a Windows system to access my
e-gold a/cs. I don't use a computer that receives or sends
email to access my e-gold a/cs. Also firewalls.

Frederick Mann


At 11:49 PM 06/12/2001 +0200, Luc Van den Borre wrote:
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>X-Priority: 3
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200
>
>| In another case, the hacker doesn't know the log-in #. He
>| most likely does not have a practical way of quickly identifying

>| any string of characters as the log-in # for an e-gold a/c. This
>| makes it much more difficult for the hacker to find the log-in #
>| and the password.
>
>This is assuming the hacker is using an off-the-shelf keyboard sniffer.
>It would be fairly straightforward for a skilled programmer to write a Trojan
>that targets e-gold account access specifically, using more sophisticated ways
>than keyboard sniffing. It wouldn't take me long to write a program that, for
>example, intercepts calls to wininet.dll, neatly extracting all the needed
>log-in, account info and passwords.
>
>Voila, the log-in number now offers no extra protection. How long would it 
>take
>to implement this if e-gold decides to use log-in numbers - a day perhaps?
>
>Using a hidden log-in number amounts to 'security through obscurity' - 
>which is
>a false and temporary security at best.
>
>The best recipe for security is keeping your system safe (not always easy,
>certainly on Windows), and using a 'hard' passphrase. Catching the thief after
>the act is not going to get easier.
>
>IMHO,
>
>--Luc


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[e-gold-list] Transaction

[Eric J. Gaither]

Neil Ennis,

   Your transaction is complete.

   I have attempted to e-mail you three times and your e-mail addy is
bouncing.

   Thanks,

Eric Gaither, President
Gaithmans Gold Nation, Inc.
(317) 788-8580 Voice
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://businesses.msn.com/gege/


Scammer(s) take notice...the Gold Community is united in seeing  your
demise!

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[e-gold-list] Re: don't get keyboard sniffed

[jpm]

Now here's an on-topic post.

>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> It is like "global warming", it's just completely and totally and
>> utterly non-sensical on numerous different levels, makes no sense at
>> all, in any way.
>
>Please explain? I know GW is pretty doubtful and the earth bounces
>around temperature on its own without human messing, but why do you say
>it's "totally and utterly non-sensical"?

Julian, here's the reason.

There are some things that are "so crazy" they are crazy **ON MANY LEVELS**.

For instance: the idea of santa claus is crazy because: "how could he 
fit down the chimney".

Now, the statement "santa claus is nonsensical because he couldn't 
fit down the chimney", is true.

Fair enough.

However, the overall topic is so completely ridiculous on so many 
levels (example, reindeer cannot fly; man has in fact explored the 
north pole; we know where all known gifts actually came from etc) 
that it is important to realize that even the statement "santa claus 
is nonsensical because he couldn't fit down the chimney" is sort of 
ridiculous in itself, because, it ignores how incredibly ridiculous 
the rest of the topic is.

For instance, some idiot may say "hey -- Santa could be a real thin 
guy -- that explains it -- santa claus is proved!"  Not really, 
because that's just one of hundreds of obviosities you could point 
out on how completely ridiculous the idea of Santa is.

Thus, just some examples below of how totally and utterly ridiculous 
"global warming" is.  ANY of these items, taken on their own, utterly 
demolish the ridiculousness of "global warming", just as ANY rational 
observation (example "uh, reindeer cant fly") utterly demolishes 
santa claus:

ANY of these obviosities is the equivalent of pointing out that 
"reindeer cant fly" --- "global warming" is as ridiculous on as many 
levels as santa claus:




(*) the normal variation in the earth's temperature is spectacular 
and massive. For example, we happen to be in a 10 thousand year gap 
between two **ICE AGES**.  This is just one of TENS OF THOUSANDS of 
such ongoing cycles.

(*) JUST WITHIN the current interglacial age in which we live and all 
civilization exists, there have been SPECTACULAR and frequent BIG 
changes in the weather.  There are very often periods of a century or 
two when it is very very hot or very very cold.

(*) there, very simply, IS NOT ANY evidence, at all, whatsoever, of 
global warming.(or cooling)  if you read all the reports in 
detail, it states that plainly.  there are four methods to measure 
the temp. of the earth changing from year to year, and three of them 
(example, satellite measurements taken at the expense of billions by 
temperature-measuring-satellites made for the purpose) positively, 
definitely, clearly, plainly, easily show absolutely no change (its 
that simple); one of the methods shows "inconclusive".

(*) Just for example, FIFTEEN THOUSAND scientists have now signed a 
petition pointing out that global warming is trivial idiocy.

(*) the amount of CO2 put out by humans is utterly, utterly dwarfed 
by natural processes

(*) the whole global warming idiocy was started by the famous "lie" 
article in _Nature_ where a couple of scientists (now totally 
discredited) simply chopped of part of a graph so they could make a 
point and gain popularity.  "global warming" is precisely as 
scientific as, say, ufology.

etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc



Again, any ONE of these items (eg, "the amount of CO2 put out by 
humans is utterly dwarfed by natural processes") just makes the whole 
gloabl warming thing precisely as ridiculous as Santa Claus.



Global Warming is a perfect example of the "big lie".  It is utterly, 
totally, nonsensical, but it is repeated on TV a lot, so it becomes 
"true".

Why does "global warming" exist?  Quite simply, to raise taxes.



ENVIRONMENTALISM IS THE LAST ATTEMPT OF SOCIALISM TO GAIN CONTROL.



How does this relate to e-gold?  As old socio-political structures 
breakdown, money (one of the key structures used by states to exert 
powre) will change from government-monopoly money to free-market 
money.

My predicition: within ten years, enviromentalists will be 
complaining that e-gold and other free market currencies make it too 
easy to have "economic activity" that is unpatrolled by 
environmentalism.

"this e-gold thing is bigger than the Canadian dollar, imagine, and 
the carbon [or whatever] output of that economy is not controlled! 
what about GLOBAL WARMING to SAVE THE CHILDREN! etc"

Result: they do a Milliken on Doug, and slap a 30% tax on e-gold transactions.



e-gold will become a big "environmental" (ie socialist) issue.

(believe it or not - you heard it here first!)





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[e-gold-list] don't get keyboard sniffed

[jpm]

>| In another case, the hacker doesn't know the log-in #. He
>| most likely does not have a practical way of quickly identifying
>| any string of characters as the log-in # for an e-gold a/c. This
>| makes it much more difficult for the hacker to find the log-in #
>| and the password.
>
>This is assuming the hacker is using an off-the-shelf keyboard sniffer.
>It would be fairly straightforward for a skilled programmer to write a Trojan
>that targets e-gold account access specifically, using more sophisticated ways
>than keyboard sniffing. It wouldn't take me long to write a program that, for
>example, intercepts calls to wininet.dll, neatly extracting all the needed
>log-in, account info and passwords.


This is not sensible, though.

Nothing could be easier than "extracting" (ie, opening your eyes and 
looking at) the output of a keyboard sniffer.

You can, instantaneously, see (say, to make but one example), where 
the word "e-gold" was typed, and then immediately find the account 
number(s) / password(s) after that.

See the example of a keyboard sniffer sniffing myself in the other email.

There is no sense in which you need "a program" to do that, it 
doesn't make any sense.

The "second account number" idea is, unfortunately, utterly 

ridiculous. It achieves absolutely nothing.

It is like "global warming", it's just completely and totally and 
utterly non-sensical on numerous different levels, makes no sense at 
all, in any way.

No more "sophisticated technology" is needed.  If you get 
keyboard-sniffed, you're totally fucked.  Doesn't matter if you have 
ten passwords and a hundred accounts and a thousand account ids.





At any rate, my guess is, and I'd bet large sums of money on the following:



(*) the way the "gold mine" people are stealing gold is through the 
age-old ruse of having people choose a password for some other 
innocuous site (maybe a porno site, or a mailing list subscription -- 
whatever), and then people commonly use, without thinking, the same 
password as their "main" egold password.



of all the passwords ever stolen in the world:

99% .. via the method described above

0.99%  via social engineering (example, looking over someone's shoulder)

0.001% ... "keyboard sniffing"



All you have to do is think back to where you used your egold 
password, on some other site, and the culprit will be discovered 
quickly.







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[e-gold-list] Re: My security measures [Log-in #]

[Luc Van den Borre]

MIME-Version: 1.0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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| In another case, the hacker doesn't know the log-in #. He
| most likely does not have a practical way of quickly identifying
| any string of characters as the log-in # for an e-gold a/c. This
| makes it much more difficult for the hacker to find the log-in #
| and the password.

This is assuming the hacker is using an off-the-shelf keyboard sniffer.
It would be fairly straightforward for a skilled programmer to write a Trojan
that targets e-gold account access specifically, using more sophisticated ways
than keyboard sniffing. It wouldn't take me long to write a program that, for
example, intercepts calls to wininet.dll, neatly extracting all the needed
log-in, account info and passwords.

Voila, the log-in number now offers no extra protection. How long would it take
to implement this if e-gold decides to use log-in numbers - a day perhaps?

Using a hidden log-in number amounts to 'security through obscurity' - which is
a false and temporary security at best.

The best recipe for security is keeping your system safe (not always easy,
certainly on Windows), and using a 'hard' passphrase. Catching the thief after
the act is not going to get easier.

IMHO,

--Luc


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[e-gold-list] Re: Second account number is useless.

[Julian Morrison]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> Nothing is easier than looking through a keyboard sniffer file and
> finding out what's going on, it's like reading someone's mind.  You
> can see their common typos, etc.
> 
> Experiment with any keyboard sniffer for ten minutes and you'll
> immediately get the idea.

You could invest in an operating system that's harder to hack - perhaps
even cook up your own with NSA secure linux, if you're particularly
paranoid.

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[e-gold-list] Re: Funds stolen from Account

[jpm]

>My entire balance was taken on a spend to "goldmine" on
>June 9. Problem is, I didn't do the spend, never heard of
>"goldmine" and have NEVER, absolutely NEVER told anyone
>my passphrase. EVER. NOBODY!


A common con is that you are asked for a password on another site, 
and then you unthinkingly USE THE SAME ONE as your egold password.

This is the #1 way to steal passwords.


>Also, I have never told
>anyone my balance! I reported this to Omnipay immediately,
>but found no answers...just another (yawn) weirdo who gave
>out his passphrase to some crook. Well, not this time...
>
>Note that someone not only knew my passphrase, but also
>my BALANCE!


This is not sensible, SSI.  if someone knows your password, they can 
see your balance.


>Is this just an ingenious hacker, who entered
>the e-gold system, and made off with the loot, or ?
>
>I have been a member since the beginning, and have been an
>avid supporter of E-Gold. I now feel that something smells
>very badly WITHIN E-gold.




You need to get together with the other poeple who have had $ stolen 
by "gold mine".

For instance, try to see a pattern in the time of day the money was 
stolen.  At least then it can be guessed where in the world they are.









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[e-gold-list] Second account number is useless.

[jpm]

BigB said:

>Picture a hacker receiving data streams from a number of
>Trojans he's planted in the computers of e-gold a/c holders.
>
>In one case, he knows the e-gold a/c #. He has a program
>which scans the data stream,
>
>looking for the a/c #. When
>he finds it, it's very likely that what follows is the password.
>This makes it very easy for the hacker to find the password.
>
>In another case, the hacker doesn't know the log-in #. He
>most likely does not have a practical way of quickly identifying
>any string of characters as the log-in # for an e-gold a/c. This
>makes it much more difficult for the hacker to find the log-in #
>and the password.


What you say above is unfortunately wrong in my opinion, BigB.

It's incredibly easy to find what you're looking for when you look 
through the file of a keyboard sniffer, in my experience.

Here, I just keyboard-sniffed myself as I logged into e-gold, I'll 
paste in the extract.  I'll replace special characters with 
equivalents (eg tab, newline etc)


n my experience.use.e-gl
use.e-go
241164
asswipe


(that is not really my password, so don't waste your time :) )

You can immediately see above that if "241164" was instead 
"SomeOtherNumber", it would achieve exactly nothing.

Nothing is easier than looking through a keyboard sniffer file and 
finding out what's going on, it's like reading someone's mind.  You 
can see their common typos, etc.

Experiment with any keyboard sniffer for ten minutes and you'll 
immediately get the idea.






>Picture a hacker receiving data streams from a number of
>Trojans he's planted in the computers of e-gold a/c holders.
>
>In one case, he knows the e-gold a/c #. He has a program
>which scans the data stream,

(PS, you don't need a "program" to do that. You just open it up with 
a text editor and "search" on whatever term you are interested in.)

>looking for the a/c #. When
>he finds it, it's very likely that what follows is the password.
>This makes it very easy for the hacker to find the password.
>
>In another case, the hacker doesn't know the log-in #. He
>most likely does not have a practical way of quickly identifying
>any string of characters as the log-in # for an e-gold a/c. This
>makes it much more difficult for the hacker to find the log-in #
>and the password.
>
>How easy or difficult the password is to guess doesn't make
>much difference. Little, if any, guessing is involved. The hacker
>reads whatever follows the a/c # in the data stream.
>
>(The Trojan could even be written so it produces a data stream
>only for the characters following a specific e-gold a/c #.)
>
>> > I suggest you contact Douglas Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and
>> > request that he upgrade his system, to provide a log-in# which is
>> > different from the a/c#. You never reveal the log-in# to anyone.
>>
>>So how would propose to make this type of change backward compatible? Do
>>we just tell people who don't have valid contact infomation to piss off
>>and forget about their acct? How long before the cries of 'e-gold stole my
>>acct and won't let me access it anymore'? The acct# isn't the problem.
>>Your computer's security and/or  your choice of passphrase is.
>
>e-gold can communicate with its a/c holders via email and notices
>on its website. Accommodation can be made for those who wish
>to continue to use their a/c # as a log-in #.
>
>I urge everyone with an e-gold a/c to continue contacting Douglas
>Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> until he corrects this absurd
>and unnecessary weakness in his system.
>

Doug's a bad ass, as is now well established! :)

The proposition is logically incorrect, so he'll just ignore it.  If 
he was polite, he'd write back pointing out it's incorrect, but since 
he's a bad ass he'll just ignore any email.


>Such issues can be further discussed on the
>Gold Account Security discussion list -- to subscribe, send
>a blank email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>or join at .
>
>Frederick Mann



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[e-gold-list] Re: RSA SecurID / photo of same

[jpm]

Sure, you can use one of those (or a different brand / similar 
concept, I don't know), with Erich's MS system.

Here, I'll take a photo of my one

http://interestingsoftware.com/pat/cryptocard.jpg

and here's one of my new DVD player!
http://interestingsoftware.com/pat/dvd.jpg



>Has anyone used this product?
>
>I recently became aware of it through a client.  They use it to secure
>their external access.
>
>The client side consists of a "key fob" which is about the size of a small
>thin pager.  It has a 6 digit number that changes every 60 seconds.
>
>On the server side there is a server that is in sync with the key fobs to
>generate a unique key.
>
>To gain access you have to enter your pin plus the 6 digits currently
>displayed.
>
>A keyboard sniffer would have at max about 30 seconds to duplicate the
>login.  Looks pretty good to me.
>

The one above in the photo works on a challenge/response system, I 
think, which is better. There's no time-hole to duplicate it.

Also, even on the one you describe, you CANNOT use the same code 
twice, so it does not matter how fast you are.


>Details are at http://www.rsasecurity.com
>
>
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[e-gold-list] Re: My security measures: what security, huh?

[Soft]

> Picture a hacker receiving data streams from a number of
> Trojans he's planted in the computers of e-gold a/c holders.

***I suggest doing a little reading about protecting yourself from trojans
as as good start. Perhaps start with something simple like ZoneAlarm this
will take care of most trojans. It uses digital signature to verify all
programs it allows to connect to net so there is no way to trick it changing
the name or so. If that's not enough get some sound commercial product
although I don't think you'll ever need it for home usage.

***As soon as we go that far as "trojan is planted" I don't want to hear any
referrences to security, please.


> In one case, he knows the e-gold a/c #. He has a program
> which scans the data stream, looking for the a/c #. When
> he finds it, it's very likely that what follows is the password.
> This makes it very easy for the hacker to find the password.


***Well that's only in case you don't really now how to analyse your data
stream. Otherwise it doesn't really matter do you or don't know the
username, you can simply scan all data with some simple script to filter
usernames, passwords, e-gols, e-mail, etc.

***Bottom line: it's risky to talk about security if you don't understand
it - basically the same way like it's tricky to make legal statements
without understanding the law or try to give prescription advice based on
"things you heard". I definitelly think E-gold (as any other system)
appreciates any input regarding present insecurity (should somebody detect
it), but: 1) normaly you report that directly to the system operator (why
would you like notify hackers?), 2) please at least do a little homework
9what has happened to the net - almost anybody thinks they know so much
about security just because they've learned few funcy words by reading some
"hacker CD sets".

-Soft


- Original Message -
From: BigBooster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: e-gold Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: Douglas Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; James Turk
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 5:03 PM
Subject: [e-gold-list] Re: My security measures


> At 03:40 PM 06/12/2001 -0400, Paul Richards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Seems to me, that if a keyboard sniffer is present, then typing a login
ID
> >would be reported, along with the password, so what difference would
> >having another ID make?!
>
> It makes a huge difference.
>
> Picture a hacker receiving data streams from a number of
> Trojans he's planted in the computers of e-gold a/c holders.
>
> In one case, he knows the e-gold a/c #. He has a program
> which scans the data stream, looking for the a/c #. When
> he finds it, it's very likely that what follows is the password.
> This makes it very easy for the hacker to find the password.
>



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[e-gold-list] RSA SecurID

[Vince Callaway]

Has anyone used this product?

I recently became aware of it through a client.  They use it to secure
their external access.

The client side consists of a "key fob" which is about the size of a small
thin pager.  It has a 6 digit number that changes every 60 seconds.

On the server side there is a server that is in sync with the key fobs to
generate a unique key.

To gain access you have to enter your pin plus the 6 digits currently
displayed.

A keyboard sniffer would have at max about 30 seconds to duplicate the
login.  Looks pretty good to me.

Details are at http://www.rsasecurity.com


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[e-gold-list] Re: Funds stolen from Account

[Tristan Petersen]

>I urge everyone with an e-gold a/c to continue contacting Douglas
>Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> until he corrects this absurd
>and unnecessary weakness in his system.

You may think there is some kind of weakness in e-gold's system, but
those of us who know how to keep our passwords secure don't.

Tristan


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[e-gold-list] Ountlandish international fees

[Destiny Worldwide Net]

Subject: Re: E-Gold->UK exchange?
From: "Yahoo! GeoCities" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 06:01:31 +0100
X-Message-Number: 12

Yes, exhorbitant banking charges are a big problem, especially for us here
in GB. Whenever I receive a dollar commission cheque I find that most of it
is swallowed up by transaction fees. Now, after opening PayPal and e-gold
accounts I find that it's a devil of a job funding them. Dealers do not seem
to want to accept GB personal cheques or credit cards - the most convenient
payment methods. They seem to want cash-over-the-counter (rather difficult
considering the mileage between USA and GB), wire transfers - what we call
cable transfers - but at a price, western union, banker's cheques, or other
outlandish vehicles which are relatively alien or expensive concepts over
here, at least for the small investor.
Richy
PLANET CELTICA
http://www.celtica.org/

<<<
You may consider opening up one of our online savings accounts.  We accept
egold, osgold, and goldmoney, and you can also withdraw clear funds in your
savings account into one of these other systems, or even have us send US
checks or money orders on your behalf.

Finally, as long as checks are made payable to DW Global, SA, we can process
them for you here and place them into your savings account from where you
can do with it as you will.  If the checks are made out to your company or
to yourself, within 10 days we will have a way for you to process them at a
very low fee, as we are opening a new US based account for this purpose in
about 10 days.  email us if you need specific instructions.  [We will NOT be
posting these instructions to the website, as this is a special arrangement
we have made available only to our customers].

By the way, for cleared non-passthrough funds in your savings, the fee for
transfers from savings into egold is a small 3.5%, one of the lowest fees I
know of.  We do not consider ourselves to be a MM, but we do this as a
service for our customers.  Rates to the other gold currencies are
reasonable too.

Find out more at http://www.offshorearnings.com

Thanks,

John





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[e-gold-list] Re: Funds stolen from Account

[BigBooster]

At 04:56 PM 06/12/2001 -0400, "Viking Coder" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Because of the fact that you have to make your e-gold a/c# public to 
> receive
> > payments, you provide hackers with half of what they need to access your
> > a/c.
>
>Wrong. The above is only true if your passphrase is extremely easy to
>guess. Just because I know where the bank is doesn't mean that I have half
>of what I need to steal from it. The acct# is half of what *you* need to
>access the account. However, the acct# is simply an address. It is very
>easy to choose an acct#; 256437 is a valid e-gold acct#. That doesn't make
>it any easier to break into. It is only easy if you have an easily guessed
>passphrase.

Picture a hacker receiving data streams from a number of
Trojans he's planted in the computers of e-gold a/c holders.

In one case, he knows the e-gold a/c #. He has a program
which scans the data stream, looking for the a/c #. When
he finds it, it's very likely that what follows is the password.
This makes it very easy for the hacker to find the password.

In another case, the hacker doesn't know the log-in #. He
most likely does not have a practical way of quickly identifying
any string of characters as the log-in # for an e-gold a/c. This
makes it much more difficult for the hacker to find the log-in #
and the password.

How easy or difficult the password is to guess doesn't make
much difference. Little, if any, guessing is involved. The hacker
reads whatever follows the a/c # in the data stream.

(The Trojan could even be written so it produces a data stream
only for the characters following a specific e-gold a/c #.)

> > I suggest you contact Douglas Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and
> > request that he upgrade his system, to provide a log-in# which is
> > different from the a/c#. You never reveal the log-in# to anyone.
>
>So how would propose to make this type of change backward compatible? Do
>we just tell people who don't have valid contact infomation to piss off
>and forget about their acct? How long before the cries of 'e-gold stole my
>acct and won't let me access it anymore'? The acct# isn't the problem.
>Your computer's security and/or  your choice of passphrase is.

e-gold can communicate with its a/c holders via email and notices
on its website. Accommodation can be made for those who wish
to continue to use their a/c # as a log-in #.

I urge everyone with an e-gold a/c to continue contacting Douglas
Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> until he corrects this absurd
and unnecessary weakness in his system.

Such issues can be further discussed on the
Gold Account Security discussion list -- to subscribe, send
a blank email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
or join at .

Frederick Mann




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[e-gold-list] Re: My security measures

[BigBooster]

At 03:40 PM 06/12/2001 -0400, Paul Richards <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>Seems to me, that if a keyboard sniffer is present, then typing a login ID 
>would be reported, along with the password, so what difference would 
>having another ID make?!

It makes a huge difference.

Picture a hacker receiving data streams from a number of
Trojans he's planted in the computers of e-gold a/c holders.

In one case, he knows the e-gold a/c #. He has a program
which scans the data stream, looking for the a/c #. When
he finds it, it's very likely that what follows is the password.
This makes it very easy for the hacker to find the password.

In another case, the hacker doesn't know the log-in #. He
most likely does not have a practical way of quickly identifying
any string of characters as the log-in # for an e-gold a/c. This
makes it much more difficult for the hacker to find the log-in #
and the password.

Such issues can be further discussed on the
Gold Account Security discussion list -- to subscribe, send
a blank email to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
or join at .

Frederick Mann


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[e-gold-list] Re: Funds stolen from Account

[Viking Coder]

> Because of the fact that you have to make your e-gold a/c# public to receive
> payments, you provide hackers with half of what they need to access your
> a/c. 

Wrong. The above is only true if your passphrase is extremely easy to
guess. Just because I know where the bank is doesn't mean that I have half
of what I need to steal from it. The acct# is half of what *you* need to
access the account. However, the acct# is simply an address. It is very
easy to choose an acct#; 256437 is a valid e-gold acct#. That doesn't make
it any easier to break into. It is only easy if you have an easily guessed
passphrase.

Why should e-gold ltd. go through the trouble of re-vamping their system
just to appease the people who can't create a passphrase more secure than
their birthdate & last name put together?


>(Making your e-gold a/c# known also subjects you to someone repeatedly
> trying to access your a/c, making it inaccessible. You then have to get e-gold
> to change the password and send the new password to you. This has also
> happened to me.)

Wrong again. After three (3) failed attempts an account is locked for 15
minutes. Your passphrase is still valid. In order for somebody to do an
effective brute force attack on your acct, your passphrase has to be very
easily guessed. They only have 288 tries per day to guess your passphrase.
This is compared to the 56,800,235,584 different combinations of the
minimum passphrase length that e-gold will allow.


> There are almost certainly people selling software to potential e-gold
> thieves that makes it very easy for them to plant a Trojan Horse in your
> Windows-based system and access your e-gold a/c if they know your
> a/c#. 

er... How would a login# protect against this scenario? The trojans
involved here are keyboard sniffers. They don't need to know what your
a/c# number is to use them. When they get the passphrase, they will also
get the login#.


> I suggest you contact Douglas Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and
> request that he upgrade his system, to provide a log-in# which is
> different from the a/c#. You never reveal the log-in# to anyone. 

So how would propose to make this type of change backward compatible? Do
we just tell people who don't have valid contact infomation to piss off
and forget about their acct? How long before the cries of 'e-gold stole my
acct and won't let me access it anymore'? The acct# isn't the problem.
Your computer's security and/or  your choice of passphrase is.


>(Having to make my e-gold a/c# public has cost me nearly 3K.)

Not keeping your computer secure has cost you nearly 3K.


> If Mr. Jackson responds that doing the above won't protect you against
> all types of hacker attacks, tell him that it's silly to leave your door half
> open, because closing it won't protect you against a gang with a
> battering ram.

You know, it works a lot better if you lock the door with a good key; i.e.
choose a passphrase that isn't easily guessed.


> (Personally, I no longer use a Windows-based computer to access my
> e-gold a/cs -- I use another operating system. I also wouldn't use a
> computer that receives or sends email to access my e-gold a/cs.)

It's good that you actually learned something from that 3K loss. 


Viking Coder

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[e-gold-list] My security measures

[Paul Richards]

I have no passwords, only passphrases. Some of my passphrases run as high 
as 1k. They include alpha/numeric and ASCII characters. This tends to 
thwart password sniffers and makes decryption almost but not quite 
impossible. (Brute force can always be used to crack a message, but that 
could take literally hundreds of CPU's and hours of time to break a 
message, but not the passphrase.)

I store my passphrases on a floppy, wherein they are encrypted as well.

It is a handy tool, you plug the floppy in, call up the program, choose the 
ID and password you want, and drag'n drop them into place, and you are off 
and running.

I a waiting to hear back from storage software mfgr if there is any 
vulnerability to keyboard sniffers during the process of dropping the 
passphrase into place for use.

Seems to me, that if a keyboard sniffer is present, then typing a login ID 
would be reported, along with the password, so what difference would having 
another ID make?!

Also, seems to me that a firewall that disables incoming attachments to 
e-mail is a must. Also, a firewall the asks permission for a program to 
access the internet is also a must. As well as, one that identifies each 
authorized program by a CRC and not a name because some Trojans will change 
their name to a commonly used interent program.

Another suggestion is to flush your cache while your anti-virus program is 
set to auto-protect. There are some sites that will load your cash with 
some nasty critters when you aren't looking.

Just some thoughts of a layperson.

Best,
Paul


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[e-gold-list] UK internal MM for cash?

[Julian Morrison]

For MMs (eg: eurogoldline) thinking of setting up to recieve UK funds, a
good approach could be to accept funds as cash sent via insured post.
The chances of cash not clearing are near zilch, especially with
hard-to-forge British money.

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[e-gold-list] Re: Funds stolen from Account

[BigBooster]

At 10:59 PM 06/11/2001 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>My entire balance was taken on a spend to "goldmine" on
>June 9. Problem is, I didn't do the spend, never heard of
>"goldmine" and have NEVER, absolutely NEVER told anyone
>my passphrase. EVER. NOBODY! Also, I have never told
>anyone my balance! I reported this to Omnipay immediately,
>but found no answers...just another (yawn) weirdo who gave
>out his passphrase to some crook. Well, not this time...
>
>Note that someone not only knew my passphrase, but also
>my BALANCE! Is this just an ingenious hacker, who entered
>the e-gold system, and made off with the loot, or ?
>
>I have been a member since the beginning, and have been an
>avid supporter of E-Gold. I now feel that something smells
>very badly WITHIN E-gold.

There have been numerous reports recently of e-gold accounts being raided.
I've personally been affected to the tune of nearly 3K.

Because of the fact that you have to make your e-gold a/c# public to receive
payments, you provide hackers with half of what they need to access your
a/c. (Making your e-gold a/c# known also subjects you to someone repeatedly
trying to access your a/c, making it inaccessible. You then have to get e-gold
to change the password and send the new password to you. This has also
happened to me.)

There are almost certainly people selling software to potential e-gold
thieves that makes it very easy for them to plant a Trojan Horse in your
Windows-based system and access your e-gold a/c if they know your
a/c#. (I have several e-gold a/cs. The only one raided was the one for
which the thief knew the a/c# because I made it public.)

I suggest you contact Douglas Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> and
request that he upgrade his system, to provide a log-in# which is
different from the a/c#. You never reveal the log-in# to anyone. (Having
to make my e-gold a/c# public has cost me nearly 3K.)

If Mr. Jackson responds that doing the above won't protect you against
all types of hacker attacks, tell him that it's silly to leave your door half
open, because closing it won't protect you against a gang with a
battering ram.

I suggest you continue hounding Douglas Jackson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
until he corrects this absurd and unnecessary weakness in the e-gold
system. You could also ask everyone you know who has an e-gold a/c
to hound Mr. Jackson until he corrects his system.

(Personally, I no longer use a Windows-based computer to access my
e-gold a/cs -- I use another operating system. I also wouldn't use a
computer that receives or sends email to access my e-gold a/cs.)

Frederick Mann


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[e-gold-list] Re: UK and other countries banking

[offshoresurfer]

> The investment is VAT free, however, I am told that
> the service fee of an intermediatory, such as
> ourselves is subject to VAT. Therefore in those
> countries that have BTW/VAT/IVA I have dutifully (not
> happily) collected it on behalf of the government on
> my fee ONLY.
> 
> Point me the way, if you feel that this is in error
> and I will gladly stop collecting it, it would
> certainly easey my bookeeping, a heck of a lot

This is a very complicated area. But you should be able to find a way around it. I 
won't even begin to try and advise you on where your "place of provision of services" 
is, but you need to figure that out and agree it with your tax authorities as it is 
important. In some circumstances it will be the place you are at, in other 
circumstances it will be the place your customers are at.

However, in principle you shouldn't have to collect VAT from people who are in 
business in another EU state (as opposed to consumers). I would imagine many of your 
customers are buying for business purposes - this definitely includes those wanting to 
invest in high yield scams etc. Provided you have proof they are in business *even if 
they do not have a VAT registration* then you can zero rate supplies to these people.

Another idea would be to incorporate your business in several different jurisdictions. 
For example, you could incorporate a UK company to handle UK business. You can turn 
over up to approx GBP 50,000 per year (your fees that is, not the actual gold) before 
you have to register for VAT in the UK, and if you're not registered you obviously 
don't have to collect it... If you look at the VAT on GBP 50,000 this will be a big 
saving which will much more than cover your legal and book-keeping fees in running 
another company.

offshoresurfer


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[e-gold-list] Fw: [PT-Refuge] 370 Privacy - Trojan lets cyber-cops plant bogus evidence

[offshoresurfer]

forwarded from another list

-

A week ago there was an article about D.I.R.T. published in the Register as well as on 
this list.
Here is another article by the same author who said that "This story contains 
incomplete and inaccurate data"

Reg duped in D.I.R.T. debacle
Crimebusting Trojan hawked by convicted felon.
By Thomas C. Greene, The Register
June 6, 2001 7:33 AM PT

My recent article on the D.I.R.T. (Data Interception by Remote Transmission) Trojan, 
with which law-enforcement agents can secretly monitor a suspect's computer and which 
is marketed by surveillance outfit Codex Data Systems, contained several inaccuracies, 
all of which can be attributed solely to my own lapse in the skepticism for which The 
Reg in general, and I personally, are known.

The full story, as it happens, is immensely more twisted than I imagined when I wrote 
my original item. Clearly, The Register's readers deserve better -- and here it is:

S.C.A.M. 
Thanks to several e-mailed hints from readers, I continued doing background research 
and have now confirmed that the CEO of Codex Data Systems is one Francis Edward 
"Frank" Jones, a convicted felon currently on probation for illegal possession of 
surveillance devices. He was charged with trafficking and conspiracy to traffic in 
them, but in an agreement he pleaded guilty to simple possession, and the U.S. 
Government dropped the other two charges.

He was sentenced to three-hundred hours' community service and five years' probation 
with no jail time, on the strength of his argument to the court that he was not 
responsible for his illegal acts by reason of mental defect. He has also been required 
to participate in a mental-health program, which, judging by some of his recent 
behavior, appears to be less than a screaming success.

Jones is widely regarded as a scam artist with a long history of security/surveillance 
snake-oil sales. He has, for example, sold bug-detection services, which we're told 
are completely fraudulent, involving detection apparatus easily cobbled together from 
the inventory of Radio Shack. He's reported to have planted a bug which he 
subsequently 'found' during one such charade.

A Legend in His Own Mind 
He's also a shameless, Boswellian self-promoter with a Web site devoted to himself in 
his on-line incarnation, "SpyKing."

Here we're told that SpyKing/Jones is "formerly in military and law enforcement 
service," and "a popular talk show guest with 15 appearances on national & regional 
programming and news specials."

As for his law-enforcement experience, we've since learned that he managed to get 
himself fired from the New York City Police Department in 1975, according to a letter 
by Association of Counter-Intelligence Professionals (ACIP) Executive Director Michael 
Richardson.

But the PR beat goes on: "Jones has lectured at M.I.T. (Massachussetts [sic] Institute 
of Technology) on TEMPEST computer eavesdropping techniques," his Web site claims. 
Indeed, "No other speaker has their thumb on the pulse of changing world trends in 
immerging [sic] surveillance technologies."

The security 'experts' our illiterate subject has conned include hacker trivia master 
Winn Schwartau and AntiOnline's "JP" John Vranesevich (no surprises there), and such 
publications as PC World, E-BusinessWorld, TechWeek, the Wall Street Journal, and, 
thanks to my carelessness, The Register as well.

The D.I.R.T. on the Trojan 
The truly inexcusable element of my first story was my failure challenge rigorously 
Codex's claims regarding the amazing power of its D.I.R.T. Trojan.

Had I taken the time to learn that SpyKing/Jones was behind this, I would have 
immediately suspected that it's a lot more talk than technology. But I ran with the 
piece out of eagerness to work my own agenda, motivated by personal outrage that 
anyone would be so irresponsible as to sell a Trojan to law-enforcement and 
governments as a surveillance device.

And the reason for that outrage survives even now; D.I.R.T. unquestionably permits 
police to upload bogus evidence to a suspect's machine and offers no auditing controls 
by which they might be caught, which was the focus of my original report.

That much hasn't changed; D.I.R.T. is absolutely ripe for abuse without 
accountability, and Jones is utterly damnable for trying to sell it to governments and 
police organizations.

But I was on very shaky ground in reporting its true capabilities. My subsequent 
investigation indicates that Codex's claim that D.I.R.T. can defeat all known PC 
firewalls is, quite simply, false.

Furthermore, their claim that "the software is completely transparent to the target 
and cannot be detected by current anti-virus software," is misleading, if not 
completely false. There is no technology in D.I.R.T. responsible for this sort of 
stealth; the server isn't detected simply because no anti-virus vendor has as yet 
added it to their signatures catalog.

Defeating D.I.R.T. 
My sugg

[e-gold-list] Re: Funds stolen from Account

[gary]

This is the third or fourth one of these losses I have seen in the past week
that went to "goldmine".  If they got into your account, which they would
have to do to make the spend, they could check the balance first just like
you could.

Assuming that you did not give your passphrase to anyone, have you ever made
a spend from that account to any business or "program" where you linked to
e-gold directly from their
web site?  Did you make any spends from that account to any business or
"program" where your passphrase there is the same of similar to your e-gold
passphrase?

What is the e-gold account number of "goldmine"?

I think there has to be some common factor with the people whose accounts
have been raided by "goldmine".

Gary

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: e-gold Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 10:59 PM
Subject: [e-gold-list] Funds stolen from Account


> My entire balance was taken on a spend to "goldmine" on
> June 9. Problem is, I didn't do the spend, never heard of
> "goldmine" and have NEVER, absolutely NEVER told anyone
> my passphrase. EVER. NOBODY! Also, I have never told
> anyone my balance! I reported this to Omnipay immediately,
> but found no answers...just another (yawn) weirdo who gave
> out his passphrase to some crook. Well, not this time...
>
> Note that someone not only knew my passphrase, but also
> my BALANCE! Is this just an ingenious hacker, who entered
> the e-gold system, and made off with the loot, or ?
>
> I have been a member since the beginning, and have been an
> avid supporter of E-Gold. I now feel that something smells
> very badly WITHIN E-gold.
>
>
>
>
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>


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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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[e-gold-list] Funds stolen from Account

[ssi]

My entire balance was taken on a spend to "goldmine" on
June 9. Problem is, I didn't do the spend, never heard of
"goldmine" and have NEVER, absolutely NEVER told anyone
my passphrase. EVER. NOBODY! Also, I have never told 
anyone my balance! I reported this to Omnipay immediately,
but found no answers...just another (yawn) weirdo who gave
out his passphrase to some crook. Well, not this time...

Note that someone not only knew my passphrase, but also
my BALANCE! Is this just an ingenious hacker, who entered
the e-gold system, and made off with the loot, or ?

I have been a member since the beginning, and have been an
avid supporter of E-Gold. I now feel that something smells
very badly WITHIN E-gold.


 

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[e-gold-list] Re: New e-gold exchanger - InstantGold

[Michael Moore]

While the Gold Today rates are comparable and in some cases cheaper 
than Instant Gold.  Gold Today also prides itself on offering not just 
an exchange service from soft to hard currency  but also  an extensive 
site where you can see not only with whom you are dealing but also 
offers a guarantee and top quality servvice.

Every order is responded to and every email is answered within 24 hour 
or less.

All accounts are funded within the time frame as written in the 
guarantee.

Gold-today is not just about "Here's your gold, gimmie your money, now 
go away...".

Gold-today is about building up a customer relationship and offering a 
service quality you can trust.

Gold today also offers extra facilities on the site such as exchange 
rates, gold price, NASDEQ indices, a source of information on bonafide 
investments, what scams are out there, and off shore information and a 
host of other useful information.  Soon to come will be other extra 
facilities freely provided for our clientele.

Sure there are Datsuns and Fords out there.  There are also BMWs, Jags 
and Rollers as well.

So you have a choice.



Kind regards,

michael
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.gold-today.com
Sign up with e-gold today and get grams of e-gold here. 
http://www.e-gold.com/newacct/newaccount.ascid=129542
Sign up with osgold and get an osgold account today
http://www.osgold.com/index.php?id=1008
subscribe to the gold-today discussion group at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goldtoday
~~
two cents worth??
http://two-cents-worth.com/?goldtoday 

- Original Message -
From: InstantGold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Saturday, June 9, 2001 8:09 am
Subject: [e-gold-list] New e-gold exchanger - InstantGold

>  Hello,
> 
> Now you can buy gold by Western Union for 15% fee ( 12% fee for 
> ordersgreater than 1000 $). Please visit http://instantgold.8k.com
> 
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-e-gold-list-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

 --
 Earn money with mBox
Visit http://www.mbox.com.au/referral_programs.html

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[e-gold-list] Re: UK and other countries banking

[Frank Zuchristian]

The investment is VAT free, however, I am told that
the service fee of an intermediatory, such as
ourselves is subject to VAT. Therefore in those
countries that have BTW/VAT/IVA I have dutifully (not
happily) collected it on behalf of the government on
my fee ONLY.

Point me the way, if you feel that this is in error
and I will gladly stop collecting it, it would
certainly easey my bookeeping, a heck of a lot

Frank
Euro Gold Line
http://www.eurogoldline.nl
--- Julian Morrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Frank Zuchristian wrote:
> > 
> > Euro Gold Line is presently setting up accounts in
> > several countries, of which the UK will probably
> be
> > the first.  Hopefully these should start to appear
> as
> > early as next week.
> > 
> > When the country becomes available, there will be
> > adjustments made to the rate schedule for that
> > country.  The way the system works, we effectivley
> > will be picking up the cost of transfer, however
> as
> > these are bulk transfers it will be far cheaper
> than
> > what our clients now have to pay individually. 
> The
> > last item that we are dealing with is to include
> the
> > BTW/VAT/IVA in our pricing.  We will announce, on
> this
> > list when these issues are resolved.
> > 
> > http://www.eurogoldline.nl
> 
> BTW, "investment gold" is supposed to be vAT free.
> 
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


=
Get your free OSGold or e-gold account, visit our site and click on one of the 
buttons.   http://www.eurogoldline.nl
Need to manage your e-gold account? Compare our rates.
Serving Europe, and the WORLD!!
http://www.eurogoldline.nl
Stop getting ripped off, learn how to fight back, join
http://www.e-told.com/139538

__
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[e-gold-list] Re: UK and other countries banking

[Frank Zuchristian]

The investment is VAT free, however, I am told that
the service fee of an intermediatory, such as
ourselves is subject to VAT. Therefore in those
countries that have BTW/VAT/IVA I have dutifully (not
happily) collected it on behalf of the government on
my fee ONLY.

Point me the way, if you feel that this is in error
and I will gladly stop collecting it, it would
certainly easey my bookeeping, a heck of a lot

Frank
Euro Gold Line
http://www.eurogoldline.nl
--- Julian Morrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Frank Zuchristian wrote:
> > 
> > Euro Gold Line is presently setting up accounts in
> > several countries, of which the UK will probably
> be
> > the first.  Hopefully these should start to appear
> as
> > early as next week.
> > 
> > When the country becomes available, there will be
> > adjustments made to the rate schedule for that
> > country.  The way the system works, we effectivley
> > will be picking up the cost of transfer, however
> as
> > these are bulk transfers it will be far cheaper
> than
> > what our clients now have to pay individually. 
> The
> > last item that we are dealing with is to include
> the
> > BTW/VAT/IVA in our pricing.  We will announce, on
> this
> > list when these issues are resolved.
> > 
> > http://www.eurogoldline.nl
> 
> BTW, "investment gold" is supposed to be vAT free.
> 
> ---
> You are currently subscribed to e-gold-list as:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To unsubscribe send a blank email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


=
Get your free OSGold or e-gold account, visit our site and click on one of the 
buttons.   http://www.eurogoldline.nl
Need to manage your e-gold account? Compare our rates.
Serving Europe, and the WORLD!!
http://www.eurogoldline.nl
Stop getting ripped off, learn how to fight back, join
http://www.e-told.com/139538

__
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[e-gold-list] Re: upwards ...

[Mark S. Ohberg]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/61
>
> if i had to guess I'd say that an up trend is estalished ..
>
> the price will probably march upwards, just as it did from Apr. until
> the middle of May on that chart.
>
> The trend is your friend!  Buy now, anyone who buys gold wholesale!
>

While I tend to agree with jpm, gold is to stage a series of mini rallies with
technicals forcing the
metal down each time, in perfect symmetry with Friday's surprise activity.
The back to earth for gold bulls, like myself, who saw the rally on Friday put
back in its
place by more influential London trade.

Mark S. Ohberg


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[e-gold-list] Re: E-Gold->UK exchange?

[SnowDog]

>>>Why not just endorse your dollar cheques to one of the market makers and
kill two birds with one stone? Goldchanger, for instance, accepts third
party dollar cheques.

There's a scam going around these days where a thief sells something on the
internet, then has the buyer send the check to an e-gold exchange service,
as a third-party check, to fund his e-gold account. Of course, the thief
never ships the merchandise, and the buyer thinks the e-gold exchange
service was part of the scam. Third-party checks are a problem.



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[e-gold-list] Want to use your credit card to buy egold? Try our C2it sale

[shupperd1]

We are having a a C2it sale all this week of 8% , instead of our normal 11%
fee for funding via credit card using www.c2it.com

Directions for C2IT Payment


 I am pleased to announce that fastgold is accepting C2it, you can pay with
your credit card there.  This is run by AOL and Citibank . So we will not
have the problems we encountered with paypal.
There is a few rules that I will enforce when doing transactions with
customers and C2it. If you are an existing long term customer, then you
obviously will have top priority.
1. If you are a customer that I have funded more than 2 times before then
your account should be funded within a few hours or less. Remember that if
you send with a credit card I get the funds from C2it instantly, if you send
with a checking account it takes 3 days before I even get it.  I will also
need you to mail me a signed statement that you have purchased, and, or will
be purchasing gold from me via C2it, however if you fax the statement to me
at 810-283-8290 I will not wait to fund you. I will trust that you are
mailing it. You will need to include a copy of your valid photo id.  This
information will not be shared with anyone.
2. If this is your first order, or you don't fit the criteria above. I will
need you to mail  me a signed statement that you have purchased, and, or
will be purchasing gold from me via C2it. You will need to include a copy of
your valid photo id.  This information will not be shared with anyone. Your
order will be filled once we receive this information.
3. Maximum order is $500 unless you have made prior arrangements with us.


4.  Email your money to James Shupperd  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  in memo section
you just put thank you and be sure to fill out the form on the fastgold
site.  You will need to also send me an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and
notify me that you filled out the form. To cover all bases, so that I can
provide you with the best possible service.
Sign up for your free account, they give you $10 free with your first
transfer  :-)  You cant beat free money. After you send money they will give
your $10 to you, then you apply it to any of your credit cards.

https://www.c2it.com/C2IT/Activate

We will also buy your egold and send it to you via c2it.



Money to Gold, and Gold to Money. Service you deserve
and the SPEED you require www.fastgold.net

Stay informed about all the latest egold investments, games, and scams. BE
INFORMED!!!
http://www.e-told.com/?157585


God Bless You and Yours,
James Shupperd

Contact me anytime
ICQ # 99212386
Aol Instant Messenger: James Shupperd
yahoo messengershupperd_james
PaLTalk James_CA


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[e-gold-list] Re: Fw: Re: E-Gold->UK exchange?

[SnowDog]

>> Personal Checks can actually be cancelled, and payment taken back, up to
6
>> months after it has cleared. Don't know the mechanics of such a
>> transaction, but do know it is possible.
>
>Yes that's true, but it applies equally to money orders. I used to run a
mail order business and have taken tens of thousands >of UK personal checks
and I never once had anyone try that. Credit and debit cards, on the other
hand, gave us chargeback >problems all the time.

No, not equally to money orders. Neither checks nor money orders can be
cancelled after they have been paid by the issueing bank, unless they are
declared to be forged or counterfeited, and it's much more difficult to
counterfeit a known money order. Most money orders supply a phone number to
tell the merchant when the money order has been paid by the issueing bank.
This makes a money order a fairly reliable payment method, for moderate
amounts of money.

The other difference between selling something through mail-order, and
selling e-gold, is that when you send something through mail-order, you have
a delivery address for any potential thief. Such an address becomes
impossible to verify for an e-gold buyer. Thieves know this and this makes
e-gold a target for thieves -- much more so than any mail-order business.

SnowDog




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[e-gold-list] Re: Fw: Re: E-Gold->UK exchange?

[SnowDog]

>>>I can't see a big problem with accepting personal cheques. You just don't
give out the gold until the cheque clears (3 days in UK). There are even
ways of clearing cheques instantly if you want to pay extra. If you look at
it that way, it's a 100% secure method of payment.

Counterfeit checks are a problem, and these can't be found until the
customer, whose account the check was written on, notices the problem and
then reports it to the bank. This can take weeks. However, you're fairly
safe if you call the customer, since most thieves won't give out their phone
number. Still, I wouldn't want to take a check for a large amount of money
from someone I didn't know, especially if they weren't in my home country.

SnowDog



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[e-gold-list] Re: UK and other countries banking

[Julian Morrison]

Frank Zuchristian wrote:
> 
> Euro Gold Line is presently setting up accounts in
> several countries, of which the UK will probably be
> the first.  Hopefully these should start to appear as
> early as next week.
> 
> When the country becomes available, there will be
> adjustments made to the rate schedule for that
> country.  The way the system works, we effectivley
> will be picking up the cost of transfer, however as
> these are bulk transfers it will be far cheaper than
> what our clients now have to pay individually.  The
> last item that we are dealing with is to include the
> BTW/VAT/IVA in our pricing.  We will announce, on this
> list when these issues are resolved.
> 
> http://www.eurogoldline.nl

BTW, "investment gold" is supposed to be vAT free.

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[e-gold-list] Re: UK and other countries banking

[Frank Zuchristian]

Euro Gold Line is presently setting up accounts in
several countries, of which the UK will probably be
the first.  Hopefully these should start to appear as
early as next week.

When the country becomes available, there will be
adjustments made to the rate schedule for that
country.  The way the system works, we effectivley
will be picking up the cost of transfer, however as
these are bulk transfers it will be far cheaper than
what our clients now have to pay individually.  The
last item that we are dealing with is to include the
BTW/VAT/IVA in our pricing.  We will announce, on this
list when these issues are resolved.

http://www.eurogoldline.nl

Frank
Euro Gold Line
tel:  +31-26-844-0113
fax:  +31-26-844-0342
ICQ 94782605  or MSN messenger
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> Yes that's true, but it applies equally to money
> orders. I used to run a =
> >> mail order business and have taken tens of
> thousands of UK personal =
> >> checks and I never once had anyone try that.
> Credit and debit cards, on =
> >> the other hand, gave us chargeback problems all
> the time.=20
> >
> >However, a currency, or even just gold, provides a
> lot more incentive to
> >fraudulent types than mail order things. e-gold can
> be exchanged for
> >national currency instantly whereas mail order
> stuff must be re-sold,
> >which entails much more hassle.
> >
> 
> because of http://coconutgold.com/mayscale.html ...
> 
> >
> >Viking Coder
> >
> 
> 
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=
Get your free OSGold or e-gold account, visit our site and click on one of the 
buttons.   http://www.eurogoldline.nl
Need to manage your e-gold account? Compare our rates.
Serving Europe, and the WORLD!!
http://www.eurogoldline.nl
Stop getting ripped off, learn how to fight back, join
http://www.e-told.com/139538

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[e-gold-list] upwards ...

[jpm]

http://futures.tradingcharts.com/chart/GD/61

if i had to guess I'd say that an up trend is estalished ..



the price will probably march upwards, just as it did from Apr. until 
the middle of May on that chart.

The trend is your friend!  Buy now, anyone who buys gold wholesale!

Tomorrow's session will be telling!  If it breaks down througn the 
channel established by the last couple of days, it will sink like a 
rock.  Put in a M.I.T. short to profit!


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"Great ventures create great mottos."


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