Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Brent Auble]

My brother-in-law is from Bogota, Colombia, and he pronounces most "y"s and 
"ll"s as a hard "j".

Brent



 From: Tom Johnson 
To: "Friam@redfish. com"  
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames
 


Well, since we've gone this far...
I have yet to land on a singular pronunciation of "yo.". It can vary from the 
hard Y as in "Joe" to "yo" like yo-yo.  
My preliminary observation: the farther south one goes in LatAm, the 
harder/stronger the "y", as in "Joe".  But better data is clearly needed.  I 
wonder if linguists have done any mapping of Spanish as has been done for 
American usages?
-TJ
On Feb 23, 2014 6:50 PM, "Steve Smith"  wrote:

On 2/23/14 6:36 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>
>Xavier and Xalapa come to mind.   Both those “x”s are pronounced like “h”.
and Me"h"ico!
>
>
>
>FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>


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Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Tom Johnson]

Well, since we've gone this far...

I have yet to land on a singular pronunciation of "yo.". It can vary from
the hard Y as in "Joe" to "yo" like yo-yo.
My preliminary observation: the farther south one goes in LatAm, the
harder/stronger the "y", as in "Joe".  But better data is clearly needed.
I wonder if linguists have done any mapping of Spanish as has been done for
American usages?
-TJ
On Feb 23, 2014 6:50 PM, "Steve Smith"  wrote:

>  On 2/23/14 6:36 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:
>
>  Xavier and Xalapa come to mind.   Both those "x"s are pronounced like
> "h".
>
> and Me"h"ico!
>
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

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Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Nick Thompson]

Lee, 

I just want to be able to teach my grandchildren to write and spell without
having to apologize every third sentence for the blatant irrationality of
the language they are learning.  

N

Nicholas S. Thompson
Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology
Clark University
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

-Original Message-
From: lrudo...@meganet.net [mailto:lrudo...@meganet.net] 
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 6:57 PM
To: Nick Thompson; The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

Nick asks:

> How come other people can standardize their spellings and we can't 
> standardize ours.
> 
>  
> 
> Damn!

Well, in the first place, the case of actual Spanish-as-she-is-spoke,
including all its dialectal differences, isn't quite as clean as the
official Castilian standard that Frank has cited.  For instance, Galician is
(I am assured) mutually intelligible with Portuguese (specifically, the
dialect of Portuguese spoken in the nearby parts of Portugal), and
Portuguese is famous for the difficulty of decoding the written language
into (any of the many and various dialects of) the spoken language.  

In the second place, two desiderata are incompatible.  It is evidently
desirable to many, including you, Nick, to be able to have a written
language that encodes the spoken language in a faithful manner.  But it is
also desirable to many (including, I hope, you) to be able to read texts
written in one's language in earlier periods, when the pronunciation is
*very* likely to have been (often, *very*) different.  In one European
country (I forget which one; it was either the Netherlands or one of the
continental Scandinavian countries) a fairly recent spelling reform,
designed to fulfil the first desideratum, reportedly made texts from even a
hundred years ago totally unreadable (in their original form) by modern
schoolchildren.
We can at least recognize Shakespeare--and certainly Dickens!--as writing in
something like our English, even if many of his rhymes and jokes don't work
for us.  ("Busy as a bee" was a better joke when "busy" was pronounced as
we'd pronounce "buzzy".)




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Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Nick Thompson]

Seriously.  I want one.  I think our language makes orthography a contradiction 
in terms.  

 

n

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 6:22 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

 

It's called The Royal Academy.  Do  you want one?  

Seriously, there are a few variations in Spanish orthography and more in 
vocabulary from country to country.

Frank

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

 Original Message 
Subject:Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames
>From :Nick Thompson 
Date :Sun, 23-Feb-2014 18:12
To :'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' 
CC :

How come other people can standardize their spellings and we can’t standardize 
ours.  

 

Damn!

 

n

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

  
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:01 PM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
Subject: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

 

Spelling of certain surnames (apellidos) in Spanish wasn’t standardized until 
after New Mexico was colonized by Spain.  There are only a few spelling 
ambiguities that are possible in Spanish:  soft “c”, “s” and “z” are pretty 
much indistinguishable;  “ll” and “y” sound the same; “h” isn’t pronounced so 
you will sometimes see “hormiga” spelled as “ormiga”, for example.  In New 
Mexico and certain other places you will see “Gonzales”, “Chaves”, “Sisneros”, 
and “Vasquez” while in Mexico and Spain they are almost always spelled 
“Gonzalez”, “Chavez”, “Cisneros”, and Vazquez”.  There are many other examples.

 

Frank

 

 

Frank C. Wimberly

140 Calle Ojo Feliz

Santa Fe, NM 87505

 

  wimber...@gmail.com  
 wimbe...@cal.berkeley.edu

Phone:  (505) 995-8715  Cell:  (505) 670-9918

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Arlo Barnes
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 2:48 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Santa Fe New Mexican: Our View: For mayor, no perfect 
choice

 

The rationale Dimas gave (in a Generation Next interview) is that he thinks the 
public fora Bushe`e and Gonzales have been debating in (the usual places, that 
is) are frequented predominantly by insiders, and not the public at large. 
Apparently, he thinks the best way to contact the "actual" public, then, is to 
flood the city with the physical equivalent of spam - polycarbonate campaign 
signs. I cannot vote for mayor because I live outside city limits (if you 
actually look at the boundaries, especially on the south side, they can be 
pretty ragged), but I would love to see an art campaign for defacing his (and 
others') posters - even his supporters could join in with favorable 
modifications.

It seems like the main reason behind the (more extensive than one might think?) 
feeling of 'no good choice' is that the main venues of discussion have focussed 
on politics (like funding) rather than issues and ideological/action history. 
Gonzales (Chrome suggested Gonzalez, is that spelling more common 
internationally?) may be backed by big money, but more important are the 
questions of whose big money, and if that will affect his actions as possible 
mayor, and in which way.

-Arlo James Barnes


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Owen Densmore]

Hells bells, no difference than Europe in general.  Densmore, Dinsmore,
Dinsmuir, Dunsmore.  I'd be amazed if the European of us could not find
several variations.  I suspect we were late to the party.

   -- Owen

It began in various parts of the world at different times.
In England, surnames became generally hereditary during the 13th.and 14th.
centuries (1200 and 1300s) They mostly came about from a place of origin,
like Wood, Hill, Field, Sheffield or London, an occupation, like Smith,
Cook, Baker or Butcher, a personal relationship, William/son, John/son,
Thom/son, or with a prefix like Mac, or from a physical characteristic,
like Short, Strong, or Redhead. Some may even have taken the name of the
lord of the manor they were tied to.

Surnames began simply because there were just too many Tom's John's and
Williams, it became necessary to have another way to identify people,
instead of John the son of William the smith, it gradually became John
Smith, the son of William the smith, and although John Smith might have
been a farmer, he continued using his father's name, passing it down to his
son, and so on.

Otherwise it would have been George the cooper, son of John the farmer, son
of William the smith, etc.,etc. In addition, the wives names complicated
matters to an even greater degree, it was inevitable that a less
complicated system had to evolve.



On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Arlo Barnes  wrote:

> Those work. I think I was thinking of something else, but I will probably
> just have to run across it in the wild again to remember.
> I was going to say but forgot: C de Baca is one of my favorite local
> surnames, because it is the only surname I know that has an abbreviation
> baked in (for Cabeza, head; the name translates as 'head of the cow', which
> I interpret [perhaps wrongly] as 'head of the herd' - a herder or leader.
> And due to the [common across languages] B/V association, sometimes it is
> spelled Vaca, hinting at common ancestry with German 'Vieh' and Latin
> 'pecus'). Another favorite with variant spelling (if only for one
> generation) is Haozous/Houser.
> -Arlo James Barnes
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

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Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Alfredo Covaleda Vélez]

Frank

Almost a a rule, I think that almost all the surnames originated in Spain
bring accent in the penultimate syllable. If surname ends in S and accent
is at the penultimate syllable, forget the tilde. But when accent is at the
penultimate syllable and surname ends in Z, put the tilde. Both sound the
same.


2014-02-23 18:01 GMT-05:00 Frank Wimberly :

> Spelling of certain surnames (apellidos) in Spanish wasn't standardized
> until after New Mexico was colonized by Spain.  There are only a few
> spelling ambiguities that are possible in Spanish:  soft "c", "s" and "z"
> are pretty much indistinguishable;  "ll" and "y" sound the same; "h" isn't
> pronounced so you will sometimes see "hormiga" spelled as "ormiga", for
> example.  In New Mexico and certain other places you will see "Gonzales",
> "Chaves", "Sisneros", and "Vasquez" while in Mexico and Spain they are
> almost always spelled "Gonzalez", "Chavez", "Cisneros", and Vazquez".
> There are many other examples.
>
>
>
> Frank
>
>
>
>
>
> Frank C. Wimberly
>
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz
>
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
>
>
> wimber...@gmail.com wimbe...@cal.berkeley.edu
>
> Phone:  (505) 995-8715  Cell:  (505) 670-9918
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Arlo
> Barnes
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 23, 2014 2:48 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Santa Fe New Mexican: Our View: For mayor, no
> perfect choice
>
>
>
> The rationale Dimas gave (in a Generation Next interview) is that he
> thinks the public fora Bushe`e and Gonzales have been debating in (the
> usual places, that is) are frequented predominantly by insiders, and not
> the public at large. Apparently, he thinks the best way to contact the
> "actual" public, then, is to flood the city with the physical equivalent of
> spam - polycarbonate campaign signs. I cannot vote for mayor because I live
> outside city limits (if you actually look at the boundaries, especially on
> the south side, they can be pretty ragged), but I would love to see an art
> campaign for defacing his (and others') posters - even his supporters could
> join in with favorable modifications.
>
> It seems like the main reason behind the (more extensive than one might
> think?) feeling of 'no good choice' is that the main venues of discussion
> have focussed on politics (like funding) rather than issues and
> ideological/action history. Gonzales (Chrome suggested Gonzalez, is that
> spelling more common internationally?) may be backed by big money, but more
> important are the questions of *whose* big money, and *if* that will
> affect his actions as possible mayor, and *in which way*.
>
> -Arlo James Barnes
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Gary Schiltz]

While we’re on this subject, I wonder how much regional difference there is in 
how differently “b” and “v” are pronounced in Spanish-speaking countries. Here 
in Ecuador, at least the campesinos (less educated country folks) pronounce 
them identically. For that reason, I very commonly see the same word spelled 
differently (baca or vaca, barilla or varilla). I believe that more educated 
folks tend to pronounce “v” more like in English, although much softer. How 
about in Spain?

Even in such a small country as Ecuador, there are many regional differences in 
pronunciation, for example in certain regions, double L is pronounced sort of 
like “jy”, i.e. llave is pronounced almost “JYAH-vay” or “ZHAH-vay", while in 
other regions, it is more “YA-vay”.

Gary

On Feb 23, 2014, at 9:14 PM, Alfredo Covaleda Vélez  
wrote:

> Frank
> 
> The X in Ximena, for example sounds in sapnish like a J, wich is your h in 
> hill, for example. 
> 
> Don´t forget the rules of the tilde and the accents. For example Chávez and 
> Chaves have the accent in the first syllable.  The Spain in América Latina, 
> in general, has lost difference between the s and the z, and for this reason 
> Chávez and Chaves sound the same. Something similar occurs with González and 
> Gonzales, Both have accent in the same syllable. 
> 
> 
> 2014-02-23 20:36 GMT-05:00 Frank Wimberly :
> Xavier and Xalapa come to mind.   Both those “x”s are pronounced like “h”.
> 
>  
> 
> Frank



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Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Alfredo Covaleda Vélez]

Frank

The X in Ximena, for example sounds in sapnish like a J, wich is your h in
hill, for example.

Don´t forget the rules of the tilde and the accents. For example Chávez and
Chaves have the accent in the first syllable.  The Spain in América Latina,
in general, has lost difference between the s and the z, and for this
reason Chávez and Chaves sound the same. Something similar occurs with
González and Gonzales, Both have accent in the same syllable.


2014-02-23 20:36 GMT-05:00 Frank Wimberly :

> Xavier and Xalapa come to mind.   Both those "x"s are pronounced like "h".
>
>
>
> Frank
>
>
>
>
>
> Frank C. Wimberly
>
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz
>
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
>
>
> wimber...@gmail.com wimbe...@cal.berkeley.edu
>
> Phone:  (505) 995-8715  Cell:  (505) 670-9918
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Arlo
> Barnes
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 23, 2014 6:23 PM
>
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames
>
>
>
> Thank you. I suspected it would be something like this; it seems also this
> region picked up a slight excess of Xs from Mexico, which are pronounced
> like Js (or like Hs in English), although I must say I am at an unfortunate
> loss to call any to memory besides "Me`xico" itself.
> EDIT: Well, we do standardize/ise on chile, while others do not...
> -Arlo James Barnes
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[lrudolph]

Nick asks:

> How come other people can standardize their spellings and we can't
> standardize ours.  
> 
>  
> 
> Damn!

Well, in the first place, the case of actual Spanish-as-she-is-spoke, including 
all its 
dialectal differences, isn't quite as clean as the official Castilian standard 
that Frank has 
cited.  For instance, Galician is (I am assured) mutually intelligible with 
Portuguese 
(specifically, the dialect of Portuguese spoken in the nearby parts of 
Portugal), and 
Portuguese is famous for the difficulty of decoding the written language into 
(any of the many 
and various dialects of) the spoken language.  

In the second place, two desiderata are incompatible.  It is evidently 
desirable to many, 
including you, Nick, to be able to have a written language that encodes the 
spoken language in 
a faithful manner.  But it is also desirable to many (including, I hope, you) 
to be able to 
read texts written in one's language in earlier periods, when the pronunciation 
is *very* 
likely to have been (often, *very*) different.  In one European country (I 
forget which one; 
it was either the Netherlands or one of the continental Scandinavian countries) 
a fairly 
recent spelling reform, designed to fulfil the first desideratum, reportedly 
made texts from 
even a hundred years ago totally unreadable (in their original form) by modern 
schoolchildren.
We can at least recognize Shakespeare--and certainly Dickens!--as writing in 
something like 
our English, even if many of his rhymes and jokes don't work for us.  ("Busy as 
a bee" was a 
better joke when "busy" was pronounced as we'd pronounce "buzzy".)




FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Tom Johnson]

Frank's comments on the sometimes and slight differences in the spelling of
Spanish last names led to the selection of many folks by the secretary of
state's office a couple years back as "invalid voters" because the same
person's name showed up with different spellings when comparing the voter
rolls and the driver's license registry, for example.

-tom johnson


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Frank Wimberly  wrote:

> Spelling of certain surnames (apellidos) in Spanish wasn't standardized
> until after New Mexico was colonized by Spain.  There are only a few
> spelling ambiguities that are possible in Spanish:  soft "c", "s" and "z"
> are pretty much indistinguishable;  "ll" and "y" sound the same; "h" isn't
> pronounced so you will sometimes see "hormiga" spelled as "ormiga", for
> example.  In New Mexico and certain other places you will see "Gonzales",
> "Chaves", "Sisneros", and "Vasquez" while in Mexico and Spain they are
> almost always spelled "Gonzalez", "Chavez", "Cisneros", and Vazquez".
> There are many other examples.
>
>
>
> Frank
>
>
>
>
>
> Frank C. Wimberly
>
> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz
>
> Santa Fe, NM 87505
>
>
>
> wimber...@gmail.com wimbe...@cal.berkeley.edu
>
> Phone:  (505) 995-8715  Cell:  (505) 670-9918
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] *On Behalf Of *Arlo
> Barnes
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 23, 2014 2:48 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] Santa Fe New Mexican: Our View: For mayor, no
> perfect choice
>
>
>
> The rationale Dimas gave (in a Generation Next interview) is that he
> thinks the public fora Bushe`e and Gonzales have been debating in (the
> usual places, that is) are frequented predominantly by insiders, and not
> the public at large. Apparently, he thinks the best way to contact the
> "actual" public, then, is to flood the city with the physical equivalent of
> spam - polycarbonate campaign signs. I cannot vote for mayor because I live
> outside city limits (if you actually look at the boundaries, especially on
> the south side, they can be pretty ragged), but I would love to see an art
> campaign for defacing his (and others') posters - even his supporters could
> join in with favorable modifications.
>
> It seems like the main reason behind the (more extensive than one might
> think?) feeling of 'no good choice' is that the main venues of discussion
> have focussed on politics (like funding) rather than issues and
> ideological/action history. Gonzales (Chrome suggested Gonzalez, is that
> spelling more common internationally?) may be backed by big money, but more
> important are the questions of *whose* big money, and *if* that will
> affect his actions as possible mayor, and *in which way*.
>
> -Arlo James Barnes
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>



-- 
==
J. T. Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism   --   Santa Fe, NM
USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
Twitter: jtjohnson
slideshare.net/jtjohnson/presentations
http://www.jtjohnson.com  t...@jtjohnson.com
==

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Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Steve Smith]

On 2/23/14 6:36 PM, Frank Wimberly wrote:


Xavier and Xalapa come to mind.   Both those "x"s are pronounced like "h".


and Me"h"ico!


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Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Arlo Barnes]

Those work. I think I was thinking of something else, but I will probably
just have to run across it in the wild again to remember.
I was going to say but forgot: C de Baca is one of my favorite local
surnames, because it is the only surname I know that has an abbreviation
baked in (for Cabeza, head; the name translates as 'head of the cow', which
I interpret [perhaps wrongly] as 'head of the herd' - a herder or leader.
And due to the [common across languages] B/V association, sometimes it is
spelled Vaca, hinting at common ancestry with German 'Vieh' and Latin
'pecus'). Another favorite with variant spelling (if only for one
generation) is Haozous/Houser.
-Arlo James Barnes

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Frank Wimberly]

Xavier and Xalapa come to mind.   Both those "x"s are pronounced like "h".

 

Frank

 

 

Frank C. Wimberly

140 Calle Ojo Feliz

Santa Fe, NM 87505

 

  wimber...@gmail.com
 wimbe...@cal.berkeley.edu

Phone:  (505) 995-8715  Cell:  (505) 670-9918

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Arlo Barnes
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 6:23 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

 

Thank you. I suspected it would be something like this; it seems also this
region picked up a slight excess of Xs from Mexico, which are pronounced
like Js (or like Hs in English), although I must say I am at an unfortunate
loss to call any to memory besides "Me`xico" itself.
EDIT: Well, we do standardize/ise on chile, while others do not...
-Arlo James Barnes


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Arlo Barnes]

Thank you. I suspected it would be something like this; it seems also this
region picked up a slight excess of Xs from Mexico, which are pronounced
like Js (or like Hs in English), although I must say I am at an unfortunate
loss to call any to memory besides "Me`xico" itself.
EDIT: Well, we do standardize/ise on chile, while others do not...
-Arlo James Barnes

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Frank Wimberly]

It's called The Royal Academy.  Do  you want one?  Seriously, there are a few variations in Spanish orthography and more in vocabulary from country to country.FrankSent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone Original Message Subject:Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish SurnamesFrom :Nick Thompson Date :Sun, 23-Feb-2014 18:12To :'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' CC :How come other people can standardize their spellings and we can’t standardize ours.   Damn! n Nicholas S. ThompsonEmeritus Professor of Psychology and BiologyClark Universityhttp://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/ From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Frank WimberlySent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:01 PMTo: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'Subject: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames Spelling of certain surnames (apellidos) in Spanish wasn’t standardized until after New Mexico was colonized by Spain.  There are only a few spelling ambiguities that are possible in Spanish:  soft “c”, “s” and “z” are pretty much indistinguishable;  “ll” and “y” sound the same; “h” isn’t pronounced so you will sometimes see “hormiga” spelled as “ormiga”, for example.  In New Mexico and certain other places you will see “Gonzales”, “Chaves”, “Sisneros”, and “Vasquez” while in Mexico and Spain they are almost always spelled “Gonzalez”, “Chavez”, “Cisneros”, and Vazquez”.  There are many other examples. Frank  Frank C. Wimberly140 Calle Ojo FelizSanta Fe, NM 87505 wimber...@gmail.com wimbe...@cal.berkeley.eduPhone:  (505) 995-8715  Cell:  (505) 670-9918 From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Arlo BarnesSent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 2:48 PMTo: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee GroupSubject: Re: [FRIAM] Santa Fe New Mexican: Our View: For mayor, no perfect choice The rationale Dimas gave (in a Generation Next interview) is that he thinks the public fora Bushe`e and Gonzales have been debating in (the usual places, that is) are frequented predominantly by insiders, and not the public at large. Apparently, he thinks the best way to contact the "actual" public, then, is to flood the city with the physical equivalent of spam - polycarbonate campaign signs. I cannot vote for mayor because I live outside city limits (if you actually look at the boundaries, especially on the south side, they can be pretty ragged), but I would love to see an art campaign for defacing his (and others') posters - even his supporters could join in with favorable modifications.It seems like the main reason behind the (more extensive than one might think?) feeling of 'no good choice' is that the main venues of discussion have focussed on politics (like funding) rather than issues and ideological/action history. Gonzales (Chrome suggested Gonzalez, is that spelling more common internationally?) may be backed by big money, but more important are the questions of whose big money, and if that will affect his actions as possible mayor, and in which way.-Arlo James Barnes
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Nick Thompson]

How come other people can standardize their spellings and we can't
standardize ours.  

 

Damn!

 

n

 

Nicholas S. Thompson

Emeritus Professor of Psychology and Biology

Clark University

 
http://home.earthlink.net/~nickthompson/naturaldesigns/

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 4:01 PM
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
Subject: [FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

 

Spelling of certain surnames (apellidos) in Spanish wasn't standardized
until after New Mexico was colonized by Spain.  There are only a few
spelling ambiguities that are possible in Spanish:  soft "c", "s" and "z"
are pretty much indistinguishable;  "ll" and "y" sound the same; "h" isn't
pronounced so you will sometimes see "hormiga" spelled as "ormiga", for
example.  In New Mexico and certain other places you will see "Gonzales",
"Chaves", "Sisneros", and "Vasquez" while in Mexico and Spain they are
almost always spelled "Gonzalez", "Chavez", "Cisneros", and Vazquez".  There
are many other examples.

 

Frank

 

 

Frank C. Wimberly

140 Calle Ojo Feliz

Santa Fe, NM 87505

 

  wimber...@gmail.com
 wimbe...@cal.berkeley.edu

Phone:  (505) 995-8715  Cell:  (505) 670-9918

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Arlo Barnes
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 2:48 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Santa Fe New Mexican: Our View: For mayor, no perfect
choice

 

The rationale Dimas gave (in a Generation Next interview) is that he thinks
the public fora Bushe`e and Gonzales have been debating in (the usual
places, that is) are frequented predominantly by insiders, and not the
public at large. Apparently, he thinks the best way to contact the "actual"
public, then, is to flood the city with the physical equivalent of spam -
polycarbonate campaign signs. I cannot vote for mayor because I live outside
city limits (if you actually look at the boundaries, especially on the south
side, they can be pretty ragged), but I would love to see an art campaign
for defacing his (and others') posters - even his supporters could join in
with favorable modifications.

It seems like the main reason behind the (more extensive than one might
think?) feeling of 'no good choice' is that the main venues of discussion
have focussed on politics (like funding) rather than issues and
ideological/action history. Gonzales (Chrome suggested Gonzalez, is that
spelling more common internationally?) may be backed by big money, but more
important are the questions of whose big money, and if that will affect his
actions as possible mayor, and in which way.

-Arlo James Barnes


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[FRIAM] Spelling of Spanish Surnames

[Frank Wimberly]

Spelling of certain surnames (apellidos) in Spanish wasn't standardized
until after New Mexico was colonized by Spain.  There are only a few
spelling ambiguities that are possible in Spanish:  soft "c", "s" and "z"
are pretty much indistinguishable;  "ll" and "y" sound the same; "h" isn't
pronounced so you will sometimes see "hormiga" spelled as "ormiga", for
example.  In New Mexico and certain other places you will see "Gonzales",
"Chaves", "Sisneros", and "Vasquez" while in Mexico and Spain they are
almost always spelled "Gonzalez", "Chavez", "Cisneros", and Vazquez".  There
are many other examples.

 

Frank

 

 

Frank C. Wimberly

140 Calle Ojo Feliz

Santa Fe, NM 87505

 

  wimber...@gmail.com
 wimbe...@cal.berkeley.edu

Phone:  (505) 995-8715  Cell:  (505) 670-9918

 

From: Friam [mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com] On Behalf Of Arlo Barnes
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2014 2:48 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Santa Fe New Mexican: Our View: For mayor, no perfect
choice

 

The rationale Dimas gave (in a Generation Next interview) is that he thinks
the public fora Bushe`e and Gonzales have been debating in (the usual
places, that is) are frequented predominantly by insiders, and not the
public at large. Apparently, he thinks the best way to contact the "actual"
public, then, is to flood the city with the physical equivalent of spam -
polycarbonate campaign signs. I cannot vote for mayor because I live outside
city limits (if you actually look at the boundaries, especially on the south
side, they can be pretty ragged), but I would love to see an art campaign
for defacing his (and others') posters - even his supporters could join in
with favorable modifications.

It seems like the main reason behind the (more extensive than one might
think?) feeling of 'no good choice' is that the main venues of discussion
have focussed on politics (like funding) rather than issues and
ideological/action history. Gonzales (Chrome suggested Gonzalez, is that
spelling more common internationally?) may be backed by big money, but more
important are the questions of whose big money, and if that will affect his
actions as possible mayor, and in which way.

-Arlo James Barnes


FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Santa Fe New Mexican: Our View: For mayor, no perfect choice

[Merle Lefkoff]

...and why would local voters wanted to reinforce the problem with
democracy today:  campaigns and politicians bought and sold.


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Tom Johnson  wrote:

> So why would anyone even think of voting for a guy who is running to be a
> public official (Dimas) who doesn't show up in public (Dimas)?  Oh yeah,
> also a guy who took $60k in public financing of his campaign.  I look
> forward to seeing his expenditure reports.
>
> -tj
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
>
>> Sorry to be local here, but this came as a surprise to me, from the New
>> Mexican editorial today:
>>  Our View: For mayor, no perfect choice
>> http://goo.gl/PIKlCl
>>
>> For a couple of weeks, it looked like Gonzales was their favorite.
>>  Certainly unique and not a City Council member (they all are pretty horrid
>> and simply cannot understand networking nor computing .. let alone
>> economic development).  So he looked pretty good.
>>
>> But the problem is that he's unfairly having PACs and others pay for
>> electioneering, which goes against the Santa Fe voting laws.  And he's not
>> stopping it, even tho not being done directly from him.
>>
>> So big money backing him.
>>
>> Our choice now reverts to two city councilors, death by ignorance.
>>
>> Anyone with experience and insights that may not make the papers?
>>
>>-- Owen
>>
>> 
>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
>> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ==
> J. T. Johnson
> Institute for Analytic Journalism   --   Santa Fe, NM 
> USA
> 505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
> Twitter: jtjohnson
> slideshare.net/jtjohnson/presentations
> http://www.jtjohnson.com  t...@jtjohnson.com
> ==
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>



-- 
Merle Lefkoff, Ph.D.
President, Center for Emergent Diplomacy
Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
me...@emergentdiplomacy.org
mobile:  (303) 859-5609
skype:  merlelefkoff

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
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Re: [FRIAM] Santa Fe New Mexican: Our View: For mayor, no perfect choice

[Gillian Densmore]

While not entirely baffled that it's 'polotics as sorta usual'.-60k for
city mayor? is Gonzales gunning for govenor? I sort of feel that of the
people running...i'm not all that thrilled. I haven't seen anything about
city bolstering stuffs. Unless i've missed something they have haven't
talked at all about improved education, some mesures to mitigate a
declining climate etc etc.


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 2:48 PM, Arlo Barnes  wrote:

> The rationale Dimas gave (in a Generation Next interview) is that he
> thinks the public fora Bushe`e and Gonzales have been debating in (the
> usual places, that is) are frequented predominantly by insiders, and not
> the public at large. Apparently, he thinks the best way to contact the
> "actual" public, then, is to flood the city with the physical equivalent of
> spam - polycarbonate campaign signs. I cannot vote for mayor because I live
> outside city limits (if you actually look at the boundaries, especially on
> the south side, they can be pretty ragged), but I would love to see an art
> campaign for defacing his (and others') posters - even his supporters could
> join in with favorable modifications.
>
> It seems like the main reason behind the (more extensive than one might
> think?) feeling of 'no good choice' is that the main venues of discussion
> have focussed on politics (like funding) rather than issues and
> ideological/action history. Gonzales (Chrome suggested Gonzalez, is that
> spelling more common internationally?) may be backed by big money, but more
> important are the questions of *whose* big money, and *if* that will
> affect his actions as possible mayor, and *in which way*.
>
> -Arlo James Barnes
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Santa Fe New Mexican: Our View: For mayor, no perfect choice

[Arlo Barnes]

The rationale Dimas gave (in a Generation Next interview) is that he thinks
the public fora Bushe`e and Gonzales have been debating in (the usual
places, that is) are frequented predominantly by insiders, and not the
public at large. Apparently, he thinks the best way to contact the "actual"
public, then, is to flood the city with the physical equivalent of spam -
polycarbonate campaign signs. I cannot vote for mayor because I live
outside city limits (if you actually look at the boundaries, especially on
the south side, they can be pretty ragged), but I would love to see an art
campaign for defacing his (and others') posters - even his supporters could
join in with favorable modifications.

It seems like the main reason behind the (more extensive than one might
think?) feeling of 'no good choice' is that the main venues of discussion
have focussed on politics (like funding) rather than issues and
ideological/action history. Gonzales (Chrome suggested Gonzalez, is that
spelling more common internationally?) may be backed by big money, but more
important are the questions of *whose* big money, and *if* that will affect
his actions as possible mayor, and *in which way*.

-Arlo James Barnes

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] Santa Fe New Mexican: Our View: For mayor, no perfect choice

[Tom Johnson]

So why would anyone even think of voting for a guy who is running to be a
public official (Dimas) who doesn't show up in public (Dimas)?  Oh yeah,
also a guy who took $60k in public financing of his campaign.  I look
forward to seeing his expenditure reports.

-tj


On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Owen Densmore  wrote:

> Sorry to be local here, but this came as a surprise to me, from the New
> Mexican editorial today:
>  Our View: For mayor, no perfect choice
> http://goo.gl/PIKlCl
>
> For a couple of weeks, it looked like Gonzales was their favorite.
>  Certainly unique and not a City Council member (they all are pretty horrid
> and simply cannot understand networking nor computing .. let alone
> economic development).  So he looked pretty good.
>
> But the problem is that he's unfairly having PACs and others pay for
> electioneering, which goes against the Santa Fe voting laws.  And he's not
> stopping it, even tho not being done directly from him.
>
> So big money backing him.
>
> Our choice now reverts to two city councilors, death by ignorance.
>
> Anyone with experience and insights that may not make the papers?
>
>-- Owen
>
> 
> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
> to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com
>



-- 
==
J. T. Johnson
Institute for Analytic Journalism   --   Santa Fe, NM
USA
505.577.6482(c)505.473.9646(h)
Twitter: jtjohnson
slideshare.net/jtjohnson/presentations
http://www.jtjohnson.com  t...@jtjohnson.com
==

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

[FRIAM] Santa Fe New Mexican: Our View: For mayor, no perfect choice

[Owen Densmore]

Sorry to be local here, but this came as a surprise to me, from the New
Mexican editorial today:
Our View: For mayor, no perfect choice
http://goo.gl/PIKlCl

For a couple of weeks, it looked like Gonzales was their favorite.
 Certainly unique and not a City Council member (they all are pretty horrid
and simply cannot understand networking nor computing .. let alone
economic development).  So he looked pretty good.

But the problem is that he's unfairly having PACs and others pay for
electioneering, which goes against the Santa Fe voting laws.  And he's not
stopping it, even tho not being done directly from him.

So big money backing him.

Our choice now reverts to two city councilors, death by ignorance.

Anyone with experience and insights that may not make the papers?

   -- Owen

FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com