Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
I'm not sure this statement is correct…"natural gas is an input into gasoline refining (cracking the hydrocarbons)" I don't think natural gas and crude oil refining typically, if ever, intersect. A crude oil refinery (which, of course, makes gasoline among other things) has only crude oil as it's main input. Now refineries differ from one another greatly in size and capabilities but I have never heard of natural gas being used in the gasoline manufacture process. On Feb 29, 2012, at 10:55 AM, q...@aol.com wrote: > Greetings, all -- > > "Gasland" is on my list, but in the meantime, I know that natural gas is an > input into gasoline refining (cracking the hydrocarbons) and with natural gas > at (artificially?) low prices, our overall cost for refining gasoline in the > US is competitive worldwide. We're also the biggest user of gasoline (the > fuel mix in other countries focuses more on diesel), which means we have > competitively priced refined gasoline in general, and a bit of extra supply > in particular at the moment. The annual switchover of winter to summer > gasoline has been complicated by some scheduled maintenance and shut-downs at > various refineries, leading to a more pronounced annual spike than usual. Oh, > and there's the Straits of Hormuz thing... > > My $0.02, > > - Claiborne Booker - > > > -Original Message- > From: Hugh Trenchard > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Sent: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:12 am > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC? > > Thanks for responding. Of course with natural gas, the first thing comes to > my mind is "Gasland'. But I suppose if some ot those environmental issues > can be brought under control, natural gas seems like it will be a big > economic driver for a while. > - Original Message - > From: Joshua Thorp > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 8:01 PM > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC? > > This sounds right to me. There is a lot of finger wagging at Iran for not > having domestic capacity for petroleum refinement even though they are a > crude exporter. So I guess capacity works both ways. The other thing I know > is currently a hot topic is natural gas production. I believe the US has > increased its production quite a bit lately and is likely to have a lot more > in the future. > > > On Feb 28, 2012, at 8:40 PM, Hugh Trenchard wrote: > >> Just as a brief follow up, it seems to me one of the major factors in this >> is that U.S. refining capacity has increased so that there is less need to >> import refined petroleum products. I haven't researched this in any detail >> and I stand to be corrected on all my assertions, but it seems to me it's >> not as though there are any new sources of US domestic supply or significant >> increase in technological ability to extract previously hard to obtain oil, >> and likely only marginal reduction in demand. There may be some, but my >> thought is the hype on this is rather misleading. Again I don't have the >> figures, but my guess is that the vast majority of US crude imports likely >> still come from Canada, Mexico, and other western hemisphere nations, which >> the U.S. refining companies refine and re-sell as petroleum products, both >> for domestic use and to export abroad. >> >> The link below shows some of the definitions used in the petroleum/fuels >> industry. From my skeptical standpoint, the hype could mislead the American >> public toward a false sense of security. I suppose if it stimulates the >> economy, then that's good, but if it gets people guzzling more gas, then >> it's really just a fool's game. >> >> http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/TblDefs/pet_move_imp_tbldef2.asp >> >> From the link: "Petroleum products are obtained from the processing of crude >> oil (including lease condensate), natural gas, and other hydrocarbon >> compounds. Petroleum products include unfinished oils, liquefied petroleum >> gases, pentanes plus, aviation gasoline, motor gasoline, naphtha-type jet >> fuel, kerosene-type jet fuel, kerosene, distillate fuel oil, residual fuel >> oil, petrochemical feedstocks, special naphthas, lubricants, waxes, >> petroleum coke, asphalt, road oil, still gas, and miscellaneous products." >> - Original Message - >> From: Russ Abbott >> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >> Cc: Hugh Trenchard >> Sent: Monda
Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
Greetings, all -- "Gasland" is on my list, but in the meantime, I know that natural gas is an input into gasoline refining (cracking the hydrocarbons) and with natural gas at (artificially?) low prices, our overall cost for refining gasoline in the US is competitive worldwide. We're also the biggest user of gasoline (the fuel mix in other countries focuses more on diesel), which means we have competitively priced refined gasoline in general, and a bit of extra supply in particular at the moment. The annual switchover of winter to summer gasoline has been complicated by some scheduled maintenance and shut-downs at various refineries, leading to a more pronounced annual spike than usual. Oh, and there's the Straits of Hormuz thing... My $0.02, - Claiborne Booker - -Original Message- From: Hugh Trenchard To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 10:12 am Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC? Thanks for responding. Of course with natural gas, the first thing comes to my mind is "Gasland'. But I suppose if some ot those environmental issues can be brought under control, natural gas seems like it will be a big economic driver for a while. - Original Message - From: Joshua Thorp To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 8:01 PM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC? This sounds right to me. There is a lot of finger wagging at Iran for not having domestic capacity for petroleum refinement even though they are a crude exporter. So I guess capacity works both ways.The other thing I know is currently a hot topic is natural gas production. I believe the US has increased its production quite a bit lately and is likely to have a lot more in the future. On Feb 28, 2012, at 8:40 PM, Hugh Trenchard wrote: Just as a brief follow up, it seems to me one of the major factors in this is that U.S. refining capacity has increased so that there is less need to import refined petroleum products. I haven't researched this in any detail and I stand to be corrected on all my assertions, but it seems to me it's not as though there are any new sources of US domestic supply or significant increase in technological ability to extract previously hard to obtain oil, and likely only marginal reduction in demand. There may be some, but my thought is the hype on this is rather misleading. Again I don't have the figures, but my guess is that the vast majority of US crude imports likely still come from Canada, Mexico, and other western hemisphere nations, which the U.S. refining companies refine and re-sell as petroleum products, both for domestic use and to export abroad. The link below shows some of the definitions used in the petroleum/fuels industry. From my skeptical standpoint, the hype could mislead the American public toward a false sense of security. I suppose if it stimulates the economy, then that's good, but if it gets people guzzling more gas, then it's really just a fool's game. http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/TblDefs/pet_move_imp_tbldef2.asp >From the link: "Petroleum products are obtained from the processing of >crude oil (including lease condensate), natural gas, and other hydrocarbon >compounds. Petroleum products include unfinished oils, liquefied petroleum >gases, pentanes plus, aviation gasoline, motor gasoline, naphtha-type jet >fuel, kerosene-type jet fuel, kerosene, distillate fuel oil, residual fuel >oil, petrochemical feedstocks, special naphthas, lubricants, waxes, >petroleum coke, asphalt, road oil, still gas, and miscellaneous products." - Original Message - From: Russ Abbott To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group Cc: Hugh Trenchard Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC? We exported more petroleum products, not more oil. We are still net oil importers. -- Russ Abbott _ Professor, Computer Science California State University, Los Angeles Google voice: 747-999-5105 Google+: https://plus.google.com/114865618166480775623/ vita: http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/ _ On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: >From >http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/us-becomes-net-exporter-o_n_857085.html While
Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
Gasland was an excellent movie. It's point was that gas is not the clean fuel it advertises to be, it just shifts some (not even all) of it's impact from when it is used by the consumer to when it is extracted. It is not just fracking, although of course that worsens things; gas drilling is just a disruptive activity by itself. And the film also emphasized that the gas companies are irresponsible, not out for our interests, and so will not bother to find more ecologically sound practices. The best way, it seems, to make our energy environmentally conscious (so to speak) is to produce it ourselves, and the easiest way to do that is to use small renewable stations like solar, or perhaps a small wind/water turbine. Or polywells, I suppose, if they ever take off. -Arlo James Barnes FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
Thanks for responding. Of course with natural gas, the first thing comes to my
mind is "Gasland'. But I suppose if some ot those environmental issues can be
brought under control, natural gas seems like it will be a big economic driver
for a while.
- Original Message -
From: Joshua Thorp
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
This sounds right to me. There is a lot of finger wagging at Iran for not
having domestic capacity for petroleum refinement even though they are a crude
exporter. So I guess capacity works both ways. The other thing I know is
currently a hot topic is natural gas production. I believe the US has
increased its production quite a bit lately and is likely to have a lot more in
the future.
On Feb 28, 2012, at 8:40 PM, Hugh Trenchard wrote:
Just as a brief follow up, it seems to me one of the major factors in this
is that U.S. refining capacity has increased so that there is less need to
import refined petroleum products. I haven't researched this in any detail and
I stand to be corrected on all my assertions, but it seems to me it's not as
though there are any new sources of US domestic supply or significant increase
in technological ability to extract previously hard to obtain oil, and likely
only marginal reduction in demand. There may be some, but my thought is the
hype on this is rather misleading. Again I don't have the figures, but my
guess is that the vast majority of US crude imports likely still come from
Canada, Mexico, and other western hemisphere nations, which the U.S. refining
companies refine and re-sell as petroleum products, both for domestic use and
to export abroad.
The link below shows some of the definitions used in the petroleum/fuels
industry. From my skeptical standpoint, the hype could mislead the American
public toward a false sense of security. I suppose if it stimulates the
economy, then that's good, but if it gets people guzzling more gas, then it's
really just a fool's game.
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/TblDefs/pet_move_imp_tbldef2.asp
From the link: "Petroleum products are obtained from the processing of
crude oil (including lease condensate), natural gas, and other hydrocarbon
compounds. Petroleum products include unfinished oils, liquefied petroleum
gases, pentanes plus, aviation gasoline, motor gasoline, naphtha-type jet fuel,
kerosene-type jet fuel, kerosene, distillate fuel oil, residual fuel oil,
petrochemical feedstocks, special naphthas, lubricants, waxes, petroleum coke,
asphalt, road oil, still gas, and miscellaneous products."
- Original Message -
From: Russ Abbott
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Cc: Hugh Trenchard
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
We exported more petroleum products, not more oil. We are still net oil
importers.
-- Russ Abbott
_
Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles
Google voice: 747-999-5105
Google+: https://plus.google.com/114865618166480775623/
vita: http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/
_
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Owen Densmore
wrote:
From
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/us-becomes-net-exporter-o_n_857085.html
While some Americans cut back on driving as gas prices soar, the U.S.
has become a net exporter of fuel for the first time in nearly 20 years.
According to data from the Energy Department,starting last November
-- with the exception of the month of January -- the U.S. began exporting more
petroleum products than it imported.
This is not the source I got the idea from, its been in the news quite
a bit lately, this is just the first google hit I tried.
The theory is that between the recession (thus less use of fuel, both
supply side and demand), conservation/efficiency, and more recent hi-tech
oil/gas exploitation (horizontal drilling), the US consumption has dropped and
the production has increased, causing a net surplus.
It certainly is surprising.
-- Owen
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Hugh Trenchard
wrote:
Where did you see that the US is now a net oil exporter? The
attachments below are 2008 and 2009, but I suspect the picture hasn't changed
much since then (US imports 75% of its oil for consumption). I believe I saw
reference to "potential exporter" in the NY Times article.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/07/26/GR2008
Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
This sounds right to me. There is a lot of finger wagging at Iran for not having domestic capacity for petroleum refinement even though they are a crude exporter. So I guess capacity works both ways. The other thing I know is currently a hot topic is natural gas production. I believe the US has increased its production quite a bit lately and is likely to have a lot more in the future. On Feb 28, 2012, at 8:40 PM, Hugh Trenchard wrote: > Just as a brief follow up, it seems to me one of the major factors in this is > that U.S. refining capacity has increased so that there is less need to > import refined petroleum products. I haven't researched this in any detail > and I stand to be corrected on all my assertions, but it seems to me it's not > as though there are any new sources of US domestic supply or significant > increase in technological ability to extract previously hard to obtain oil, > and likely only marginal reduction in demand. There may be some, but my > thought is the hype on this is rather misleading. Again I don't have the > figures, but my guess is that the vast majority of US crude imports likely > still come from Canada, Mexico, and other western hemisphere nations, which > the U.S. refining companies refine and re-sell as petroleum products, both > for domestic use and to export abroad. > > The link below shows some of the definitions used in the petroleum/fuels > industry. From my skeptical standpoint, the hype could mislead the American > public toward a false sense of security. I suppose if it stimulates the > economy, then that's good, but if it gets people guzzling more gas, then it's > really just a fool's game. > > http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/TblDefs/pet_move_imp_tbldef2.asp > > From the link: "Petroleum products are obtained from the processing of crude > oil (including lease condensate), natural gas, and other hydrocarbon > compounds. Petroleum products include unfinished oils, liquefied petroleum > gases, pentanes plus, aviation gasoline, motor gasoline, naphtha-type jet > fuel, kerosene-type jet fuel, kerosene, distillate fuel oil, residual fuel > oil, petrochemical feedstocks, special naphthas, lubricants, waxes, petroleum > coke, asphalt, road oil, still gas, and miscellaneous products." > - Original Message - > From: Russ Abbott > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > Cc: Hugh Trenchard > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:47 PM > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC? > > We exported more petroleum products, not more oil. We are still net oil > importers. > > -- Russ Abbott > _ > Professor, Computer Science > California State University, Los Angeles > > Google voice: 747-999-5105 > Google+: https://plus.google.com/114865618166480775623/ > vita: http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/ > _ > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: > From > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/us-becomes-net-exporter-o_n_857085.html > > While some Americans cut back on driving as gas prices soar, the U.S. has > become a net exporter of fuel for the first time in nearly 20 years. > > According to data from the Energy Department,starting last November -- with > the exception of the month of January -- the U.S. began exporting more > petroleum products than it imported. > > > This is not the source I got the idea from, its been in the news quite a bit > lately, this is just the first google hit I tried. > > The theory is that between the recession (thus less use of fuel, both supply > side and demand), conservation/efficiency, and more recent hi-tech oil/gas > exploitation (horizontal drilling), the US consumption has dropped and the > production has increased, causing a net surplus. > > It certainly is surprising. > >-- Owen > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Hugh Trenchard wrote: > Where did you see that the US is now a net oil exporter? The attachments > below are 2008 and 2009, but I suspect the picture hasn't changed much since > then (US imports 75% of its oil for consumption). I believe I saw reference > to "potential exporter" in the NY Times article. > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/07/26/GR2008072601599.html > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdsdigital/4056035804/ > - Original Message - > From: Owen Densmore > To: Complexity Coffee Group > Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 9:14 AM > Subject: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the Unit
Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
Just as a brief follow up, it seems to me one of the major factors in this is
that U.S. refining capacity has increased so that there is less need to import
refined petroleum products. I haven't researched this in any detail and I
stand to be corrected on all my assertions, but it seems to me it's not as
though there are any new sources of US domestic supply or significant increase
in technological ability to extract previously hard to obtain oil, and likely
only marginal reduction in demand. There may be some, but my thought is the
hype on this is rather misleading. Again I don't have the figures, but my
guess is that the vast majority of US crude imports likely still come from
Canada, Mexico, and other western hemisphere nations, which the U.S. refining
companies refine and re-sell as petroleum products, both for domestic use and
to export abroad.
The link below shows some of the definitions used in the petroleum/fuels
industry. From my skeptical standpoint, the hype could mislead the American
public toward a false sense of security. I suppose if it stimulates the
economy, then that's good, but if it gets people guzzling more gas, then it's
really just a fool's game.
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/TblDefs/pet_move_imp_tbldef2.asp
>From the link: "Petroleum products are obtained from the processing of crude
>oil (including lease condensate), natural gas, and other hydrocarbon
>compounds. Petroleum products include unfinished oils, liquefied petroleum
>gases, pentanes plus, aviation gasoline, motor gasoline, naphtha-type jet
>fuel, kerosene-type jet fuel, kerosene, distillate fuel oil, residual fuel
>oil, petrochemical feedstocks, special naphthas, lubricants, waxes, petroleum
>coke, asphalt, road oil, still gas, and miscellaneous products."
- Original Message -
From: Russ Abbott
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Cc: Hugh Trenchard
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
We exported more petroleum products, not more oil. We are still net oil
importers.
-- Russ Abbott
_
Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles
Google voice: 747-999-5105
Google+: https://plus.google.com/114865618166480775623/
vita: http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/
_
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
From
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/us-becomes-net-exporter-o_n_857085.html
While some Americans cut back on driving as gas prices soar, the U.S. has
become a net exporter of fuel for the first time in nearly 20 years.
According to data from the Energy Department,starting last November --
with the exception of the month of January -- the U.S. began exporting more
petroleum products than it imported.
This is not the source I got the idea from, its been in the news quite a
bit lately, this is just the first google hit I tried.
The theory is that between the recession (thus less use of fuel, both
supply side and demand), conservation/efficiency, and more recent hi-tech
oil/gas exploitation (horizontal drilling), the US consumption has dropped and
the production has increased, causing a net surplus.
It certainly is surprising.
-- Owen
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Hugh Trenchard wrote:
Where did you see that the US is now a net oil exporter? The attachments
below are 2008 and 2009, but I suspect the picture hasn't changed much since
then (US imports 75% of its oil for consumption). I believe I saw reference to
"potential exporter" in the NY Times article.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/07/26/GR2008072601599.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdsdigital/4056035804/
- Original Message -
From: Owen Densmore
To: Complexity Coffee Group
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 9:14 AM
Subject: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
Now for something completely different:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/opinion/sunday/friedman-a-good-question.html
Basically whether or not the US should join OPEC now that it is a net
oil exporter.
Insane as it sounds, there is some reason in the discussion.
-- Owen
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
FRIAM App
Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
US Companies explore, exploit and export petroleum from almost every country in the world. 2012/2/27 Russ Abbott > We exported more petroleum products, not more oil. We are still net oil > importers. > > *-- Russ Abbott* > *_* > *** Professor, Computer Science* > * California State University, Los Angeles* > > * Google voice: 747-*999-5105 > Google+: https://plus.google.com/114865618166480775623/ > * vita: *http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/ > *_* > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: > >> From >> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/us-becomes-net-exporter-o_n_857085.html >> >> While some Americans cut >> back<http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/11/gas-prices-rise-americans-cutting-back-on-driving/> >> on >> driving as gas prices soar, the U.S. has become a net exporter of fuel for >> the first time in nearly 20 years. >> >> According to data from the Energy >> Department,<http://www.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTPNTUS2&f=M>starting >> last November -- with the exception of the month of January -- the U.S. >> began exporting more petroleum products than it imported. >> >> >> This is not the source I got the idea from, its been in the news quite a >> bit lately, this is just the first google hit I tried. >> >> The theory is that between the recession (thus less use of fuel, both >> supply side and demand), conservation/efficiency, and more recent hi-tech >> oil/gas exploitation (horizontal drilling), the US consumption has dropped >> and the production has increased, causing a net surplus. >> >> It certainly is surprising. >> >>-- Owen >> >> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Hugh Trenchard wrote: >> >>> ** >>> Where did you see that the US is now a net oil exporter? The >>> attachments below are 2008 and 2009, but I suspect the picture hasn't >>> changed much since then (US imports 75% of its oil for consumption). I >>> believe I saw reference to "potential exporter" in the NY Times article. >>> >>> >>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/07/26/GR2008072601599.html >>> >>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdsdigital/4056035804/ >>> >>> - Original Message - >>> *From:* Owen Densmore >>> *To:* Complexity Coffee Group >>> *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2012 9:14 AM >>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC? >>> >>> Now for something completely different: >>> >>> >>> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/opinion/sunday/friedman-a-good-question.html >>> >>> Basically whether or not the US should join OPEC now that it is a net >>> oil exporter. >>> >>> Insane as it sounds, there is some reason in the discussion. >>> >>>-- Owen >>> >>> -- >>> >>> >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> >>> >>> >>> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >>> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >>> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >>> >> >> >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> > > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > -- Alfredo FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
Thanks for the clarification. It is still surprising nonetheless.
- Original Message -
From: Russ Abbott
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Cc: Hugh Trenchard
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
We exported more petroleum products, not more oil. We are still net oil
importers.
-- Russ Abbott
_
Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles
Google voice: 747-999-5105
Google+: https://plus.google.com/114865618166480775623/
vita: http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/
_
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
From
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/us-becomes-net-exporter-o_n_857085.html
While some Americans cut back on driving as gas prices soar, the U.S. has
become a net exporter of fuel for the first time in nearly 20 years.
According to data from the Energy Department,starting last November --
with the exception of the month of January -- the U.S. began exporting more
petroleum products than it imported.
This is not the source I got the idea from, its been in the news quite a
bit lately, this is just the first google hit I tried.
The theory is that between the recession (thus less use of fuel, both
supply side and demand), conservation/efficiency, and more recent hi-tech
oil/gas exploitation (horizontal drilling), the US consumption has dropped and
the production has increased, causing a net surplus.
It certainly is surprising.
-- Owen
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Hugh Trenchard wrote:
Where did you see that the US is now a net oil exporter? The attachments
below are 2008 and 2009, but I suspect the picture hasn't changed much since
then (US imports 75% of its oil for consumption). I believe I saw reference to
"potential exporter" in the NY Times article.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/07/26/GR2008072601599.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdsdigital/4056035804/
- Original Message -
From: Owen Densmore
To: Complexity Coffee Group
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 9:14 AM
Subject: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
Now for something completely different:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/opinion/sunday/friedman-a-good-question.html
Basically whether or not the US should join OPEC now that it is a net
oil exporter.
Insane as it sounds, there is some reason in the discussion.
-- Owen
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
We exported more petroleum products, not more oil. We are still net oil importers. *-- Russ Abbott* *_* *** Professor, Computer Science* * California State University, Los Angeles* * Google voice: 747-*999-5105 Google+: https://plus.google.com/114865618166480775623/ * vita: *http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/ *_* On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Owen Densmore wrote: > From > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/us-becomes-net-exporter-o_n_857085.html > > While some Americans cut > back<http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/11/gas-prices-rise-americans-cutting-back-on-driving/> > on > driving as gas prices soar, the U.S. has become a net exporter of fuel for > the first time in nearly 20 years. > > According to data from the Energy > Department,<http://www.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTPNTUS2&f=M>starting > last November -- with the exception of the month of January -- the U.S. > began exporting more petroleum products than it imported. > > > This is not the source I got the idea from, its been in the news quite a > bit lately, this is just the first google hit I tried. > > The theory is that between the recession (thus less use of fuel, both > supply side and demand), conservation/efficiency, and more recent hi-tech > oil/gas exploitation (horizontal drilling), the US consumption has dropped > and the production has increased, causing a net surplus. > > It certainly is surprising. > >-- Owen > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Hugh Trenchard wrote: > >> ** >> Where did you see that the US is now a net oil exporter? The attachments >> below are 2008 and 2009, but I suspect the picture hasn't changed much >> since then (US imports 75% of its oil for consumption). I believe I saw >> reference to "potential exporter" in the NY Times article. >> >> >> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/07/26/GR2008072601599.html >> >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdsdigital/4056035804/ >> >> - Original Message - >> *From:* Owen Densmore >> *To:* Complexity Coffee Group >> *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2012 9:14 AM >> *Subject:* [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC? >> >> Now for something completely different: >> >> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/opinion/sunday/friedman-a-good-question.html >> >> Basically whether or not the US should join OPEC now that it is a net oil >> exporter. >> >> Insane as it sounds, there is some reason in the discussion. >> >>-- Owen >> >> -- >> >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> >> >> >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> > > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
From http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/us-becomes-net-exporter-o_n_857085.html While some Americans cut back<http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/11/gas-prices-rise-americans-cutting-back-on-driving/> on driving as gas prices soar, the U.S. has become a net exporter of fuel for the first time in nearly 20 years. According to data from the Energy Department,<http://www.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MTPNTUS2&f=M>starting last November -- with the exception of the month of January -- the U.S. began exporting more petroleum products than it imported. This is not the source I got the idea from, its been in the news quite a bit lately, this is just the first google hit I tried. The theory is that between the recession (thus less use of fuel, both supply side and demand), conservation/efficiency, and more recent hi-tech oil/gas exploitation (horizontal drilling), the US consumption has dropped and the production has increased, causing a net surplus. It certainly is surprising. -- Owen On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Hugh Trenchard wrote: > ** > Where did you see that the US is now a net oil exporter? The attachments > below are 2008 and 2009, but I suspect the picture hasn't changed much > since then (US imports 75% of its oil for consumption). I believe I saw > reference to "potential exporter" in the NY Times article. > > > http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/07/26/GR2008072601599.html > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdsdigital/4056035804/ > > - Original Message - > *From:* Owen Densmore > *To:* Complexity Coffee Group > *Sent:* Monday, February 27, 2012 9:14 AM > *Subject:* [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC? > > Now for something completely different: > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/opinion/sunday/friedman-a-good-question.html > > Basically whether or not the US should join OPEC now that it is a net oil > exporter. > > Insane as it sounds, there is some reason in the discussion. > >-- Owen > > -- > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
Where did you see that the US is now a net oil exporter? The attachments below are 2008 and 2009, but I suspect the picture hasn't changed much since then (US imports 75% of its oil for consumption). I believe I saw reference to "potential exporter" in the NY Times article. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/07/26/GR2008072601599.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdsdigital/4056035804/ - Original Message - From: Owen Densmore To: Complexity Coffee Group Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 9:14 AM Subject: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC? Now for something completely different: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/opinion/sunday/friedman-a-good-question.html Basically whether or not the US should join OPEC now that it is a net oil exporter. Insane as it sounds, there is some reason in the discussion. -- Owen -- FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
I suspect that both South American members of the OPEC are not interested in such a bright idea. Maybe later when right returns. By the way, although Hispanic population in USA exceeds the population of the most populated hispanic country in South America and We are just at three flying hours from Miami, by now in UNASUR we are fine, thanks. 2012/2/27 Owen Densmore > Now for something completely different: > > > http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/opinion/sunday/friedman-a-good-question.html > > Basically whether or not the US should join OPEC now that it is a net oil > exporter. > > Insane as it sounds, there is some reason in the discussion. > >-- Owen > > > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College > lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org > -- Alfredo FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
Insane as it sounds, A better question is if the US should first join the OIC (Organisation of Islamic Cooperation) considering that the US has more Muslims (5+ million) than half OIC's member nations. On 2/27/12, Owen Densmore wrote: > Now for something completely different: > > http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/opinion/sunday/friedman-a-good-question.html > > Basically whether or not the US should join OPEC now that it is a net oil > exporter. > > Insane as it sounds, there is some reason in the discussion. > >-- Owen > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
[FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
Now for something completely different: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/opinion/sunday/friedman-a-good-question.html Basically whether or not the US should join OPEC now that it is a net oil exporter. Insane as it sounds, there is some reason in the discussion. -- Owen FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
