Re: gEDA-user: furnace controller I/O port again
On Nov 2, 2006, at 8:15 PM, Bob Paddock wrote: I'll look into it. The thing about op amps is that they're cheap and tiny. Which frequently gets people into trouble when they try to use Op-Amps as Comparators: ... TI: Op Amps and Comparators - Don't Confuse Them Operational amplifiers (op amps) and comparators look similar; they even have very similar schematic symbols. This leads a lot of designers to think they are interchangeable. There is a strong temptation to use a spare section of a multiple op amp package as a comparator to save money. This application note will explain why designers should not do this. http://encon.fke.utm.my/nikd/latest/sloa067.pdf Download .pdf (sloa067.pdf, 150 Kbytes)" Not to butt in, but...wow, that is a VERY informative article...Thanks for sending that URL! -Dave -- Dave McGuire Cape Coral, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: m32c expansion board works!
John Luciani wrote: On 11/2/06, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've got blinky lights! Congratulations. Nothing like the immense satisfaction of the blinky light. Difficult to explain to others the amount of joy a single flashing LED brings ;-) Except for those who have experienced that joy. When I was in grad school, I had this relatively large board which was a characterization platform for a chip I'd designed. I had an old sparc station which connected via a serial port to the board. The board had a microcontroller on it that listened to the serial port and provided a simple command line interface that let you write data to both my chip and an fpga via a SPI interface. My exciting blinking LED was when I could press the "L" button on the sparc and turn on a LED on the board. It meant my software on the sparc, hardware on the board, firmware on the micro, and firmware on the fpga were all at least partially functional. Getting the rest of the board to work was easy! -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: m32c expansion board works!
> "Testing RAM in Embedded Systems" Yeah, I know about that one. Back when I designed PC motherboards, our group wrote our own diagnostics. Our memory test found bugs that no other memory test we had access to did. Pseudo-random fills is sufficient for my purposes, and avoids 90% of the usual mistakes memory testers make. > > I've got blinky lights! > > Isn't it great how we use a million transistors to blink some LEDs, > and love it? :-) Well, when the LEDs tell you that you didn't waste $100 on a dead board, yeah :-) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: furnace controller I/O port again
> Which frequently gets people into trouble when they try to use > Op-Amps as Comparators: There do seem to be comparators in the size, speed, and type I need; although not as plentiful as op amps. Specs: * push-pull output (they drive both P and N MOSFETS). * 1MHz or so (~1uS delay) * <= 0.65mm pitch (ideally, 0.5mm) * 3.3-5v Vcc The lines will (initially, at least) carry 1wire (1-15 uS pulses) and RS-232 (9600 baud). ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb refdes name restrictions?
[snip] >The parser starts at the end, moving towards the start of the string and >strips off lower case characters until it encounters any non-lowercase >character, then it stops. Thus Rp4 will be a valid element name. This >has been documented in the manual for at least 5 years now since I first >wrote that code. From the pcb manual: It might be useful to put this information in gEDA/gaf's attribute guide under refdes as well. Filed bug to remind us: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1589700&group_id=161080&atid=818426 -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: furnace controller I/O port again
> > I'll look into it. The thing about op amps is that they're cheap > > and tiny. > > Which frequently gets people into trouble when they try to use > Op-Amps as Comparators: I don't mind using comparators as long as they're tiny. You know, if I keep on "just trying stuff" I'll eventually learn everything, since each time I post an idea I get a bunch of neat stuff to read about :-) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: slotting problem
[snip] >None of these work for me. I'm not sure how to use the Edit/Slot... >function - it doesn't even seem to change the slot attribute value >(select component, choose Edit/Slot..., change value of slot in dialog). >The dialog box changes the slot attribute value but doesn't update the >pins. That's bizarre. Can anybody else reproduce this behavior? On my box, I select the component, pick Edit/Slot..., type in the new slot number (2 for a 7474-1), hit okay, and boom, I get the pins to change. -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: m32c expansion board works!
On 11/2/06, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I've got blinky lights! Congratulations. Nothing like the immense satisfaction of the blinky light. Difficult to explain to others the amount of joy a single flashing LED brings ;-) (* jcl *) -- http://www.luciani.org ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA user with problems
Hi,
[snip]
>Could somebody show me what I am doing wrong? I am using Ubuntu Edgy
>with gEDA default package.
>1) I am trying to activate the auto numbering for components placement.
>I modified /etc/gEDA/system-gschemrc to:
>...
>(load (string-append gedadatarc "/scheme/auto-uref.scm"))
>(add-hook! add-component-hook auto-uref)
>(add-hook! copy-component-hook auto-uref)
>...
>And I can not see any auto numbering.
I commented in those lines, and on my machine I get auto numbering
when I add components. I did not see any auto numbering when I copied
components though. Did something change to break this? Carlos?
>2) There is a bug on gschem? On the library list, the alphabetically
>order is scrambled. I have a temporary work around:
>http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=3D282040&highlight=3Dgeda
I wouldn't use that rc keyword as it has historically had some
odd side effects. I have filed a bug against it for now.
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1589691&group_id=161080&atid=818426
>3)I am trying to define a default working path for my projects:
>...
>;(source-library "${HOME}/projects/my_schematics")
>(source-library "/home/projects")
>...
>but I can not see any effect.
>If somebody know what is wrong or where is my mistake, please let me
>know.
Yeah, source-library has nothing to do with this. What exactly
are you trying to accomplish by defining a "working path"?
>--_=_NextPart_001_01C6FEA7.8004BA1D
>Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="us-ascii"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
Please do not post HTML to this mailing list. Thank you.
-Ales
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Re: gEDA-user: gEDA user with problems
[snip] >> but I can not see any effect. > >The source-library paths tell gschem2pcb and pcb where to find the >footprints. This will not affect gschem in any way. Use it to give the >path to your local footprint files. This isn't correct. The source-library rc keyword and associated path is only used when searching for underlying hierarchical schematic sheets in gschem and gnetlist. -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: m32c expansion board works!
On Thursday 02 November 2006 19:06, DJ Delorie wrote: > So, once the configuration was figured out, all 4Mb of SRAM passed the > memtest I wrote! It was a simple one, writing out a deterministic > pseudorandom sequence, then reading it back in and comparing. "Testing RAM in Embedded Systems" Address the real problems found in embedded systems. http://www.ganssle.com/testingram.pdf > I've got blinky lights! Isn't it great how we use a million transistors to blink some LEDs, and love it? :-) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Re: OT: FPGAs, SDSL, Ronjas...
On Thu, 2 Nov 2006 16:35:48 GMT [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Sokolov) wrote: > > When the ISP detects this, > > Do you think that ISPs have nothing better to do than go into the low > level debug features of their DSLAMs, look at individual packets in hex > etc. to detect that I started using a different implementation of their > line management protocol? Yeahtrue. And what if you want to buy a wireless router for example... aren't you allowed to do that? It might have the same implementation inside... :-) Note that this SDSL project is cool! Levente -- http://web.interware.hu/lekovacs ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: furnace controller I/O port again
On Thursday 02 November 2006 12:51, DJ Delorie wrote: > > Be sure to check how long it takes the op-amps to come out of > > saturation if you intend to use this for high-speed signals. > > Comparators (ones with totem-pole outputs) are usually better suited > > to this application. > > I'll look into it. The thing about op amps is that they're cheap and > tiny. Which frequently gets people into trouble when they try to use Op-Amps as Comparators: Analog Devices: "Issue 11: Comparators & Op Amps – May They Never Meet (Or Good Advice From Mr. Punch) The Question: Why buy an expensive comparator when an op amp is just as good? Download this article [pdf, 364,544 bytes]" http://www.analog.com/en/content/0,2886,760%255F788%255F87112,00.html TI: Op Amps and Comparators - Don't Confuse Them Operational amplifiers (op amps) and comparators look similar; they even have very similar schematic symbols. This leads a lot of designers to think they are interchangeable. There is a strong temptation to use a spare section of a multiple op amp package as a comparator to save money. This application note will explain why designers should not do this. http://encon.fke.utm.my/nikd/latest/sloa067.pdf Download .pdf (sloa067.pdf, 150 Kbytes)" To go along with the PDP-5, here are some Op-Amp notes from 1963 & 1966: http://focus.ti.com/docs/apps/catalog/resources/appnoteabstract.jhtml?abstractName=sboa092a -- http://www.softwaresafety.net/ http://www.designer-iii.com/ http://www.unusualresearch.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: m32c expansion board works!
I got the replacement LDO today and swapped it in. Carefully checked the voltages; all OK and no magic smoke this time. The only fix I've had to make so far is that I didn't tie the HOLD and RDY lines at all, and the m3a board has them tied in an inconvenient way. Yup, locked up the chip. One 30g wire jumpered them both to Vcc. Needed one wait state on the RAM to get it working reliably, don't know why, it spec'd out OK. Might be the extra circuitry on the main board (those lines were used to drive some LEDs through a buffer) adding capacitance. So, once the configuration was figured out, all 4Mb of SRAM passed the memtest I wrote! It was a simple one, writing out a deterministic pseudorandom sequence, then reading it back in and comparing. I've gotten the ethernet chip programmed enough that it autonegotiates and brings the link up. I've got blinky lights! LINK comes on when I plug the cable in, and ACT blinks when packets come in. I haven't even come close to reading/writing my own packets, but at least this proves that the chip isn't toast. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OT: FPGAs, SDSL, Ronjas...
On 11/2/06, Michael Sokolov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Do you think that ISPs have nothing better to do than go into the low level debug features of their DSLAMs, look at individual packets in hex etc. to detect that I started using a different implementation of their line management protocol? Having worked for a company that manufactured and designed what are known as "IP flow classification" chips (specifically, Hifn, Inc.; oh, and they could be reprogramed for protocols other than IP too, including but not limited to ATM, and can do so at OC-192 speeds in real-time), yes, it is entirely possible to do this, **and to do this in an automated fashion**. No human intervention is required. Whether or not they actually take advantage of these chip features is quite another issue; that's a policy issue. But when/if a policy of protocol enforcement goes into effect, it can happen instantly and without warning to any customers. If my ISP were like that, I wouldn't be their customer! Although of Some countries don't give you a choice. Many of their rules are inspired or mandated by the telecommunications laws of their presiding governments. Rather useless for me as there's nothing but horses and cows in a 20 km radius of my facility. I'm rather amazed that we have a Covad DSLAM here. Are Americans now spoiled to the point that even horses and cows can't live without high speed Internet any more? I don't know if this means anything or not, but my family got high-speed broadband just last year. It was the first time they'd ever heard of a cable modem. And not because they're techno-inept either. Rollout is slow. But rollout is complete. Eventually. Just my two cents. -- Samuel A. Falvo II ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gEDA user with problems
Adrian Nania wrote:
> 1) I am trying to activate the auto numbering for components placement.
> I modified /etc/gEDA/system-gschemrc to:
^
Better leave the systemrc alone and copy the relevant lines to
$HOME/.gEDA/gschemrc
> (load (string-append gedadatarc "/scheme/auto-uref.scm"))
^
I'd guess, the scheme script is at a different place. Probably it is
in /usr/share/gEDA/scheme
You may try
locate auto-uref.scm
to find it.
> 2) There is a bug on gschem? On the library list, the alphabetically
> order is scrambled.
This may not be a bug, but a feature. E.g, I like to have my local
clustered at the end of the list. Libraries are listed in the order they
are added by the various config files. Thus you can put them in any
order you like.
> I have a temporary work around:
> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=282040&highlight=geda
> 3)I am trying to define a default working path for my projects:
> ...
> ;(source-library "${HOME}/projects/my_schematics")
> (source-library "/home/projects")
^
This is fairly unusual. On most unixoid systems the directory layer
above /home contains the home directories of users. If you want to share
the projects between users, it is good practice to put the corresponding
directory somewhere above /usr/local/
Does /home/projects exist on your system?
> but I can not see any effect.
The source-library paths tell gschem2pcb and pcb where to find the
footprints. This will not affect gschem in any way. Use it to give the
path to your local footprint files.
To set the working directory I do a cd to the directory and call gschem
over there. I wrote a little wrapper script to do this automagically:
-
#!/bin/bash
PROJECTDIR=/home/kmk/lilalaser/geda
PROJECT=DL-Driver
BOARDNAME=$1
cd $PROJEKTDIR/$PROJECT
gschem $BOARDNAME.sch
-
HTH,
---<(kaimartin)>---
--
Lilalaser tel: +49.511.4850615
Kai-Martin Knaak fax: +49.511.4818399
Harenberger Meile 3 http://lilalaser.de
30926 Seelze/Hannover [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?
Dave McGuire wrote: Are printed organic transistors ready for prime-time? Not quite. Or at least, the processes that work well are kept secret, applied to small displays -- not necessarily easy in a garage shop. But for some things where short lifetime is OK, there are recipes used by grad students these days. As far as cheap, tested, long lasting, there's Conductive polymer material from Agfa. It is maybe a product with 400 Ohms per square with carbon black in it, and a clear blue coating that is 600 Ohms per square transparent blue color. That kind of material is what you make transistors out of too... only Agfa did not respond to a request for prices. They may be in trouble as a company, but it's close to being available as a cheap material -- priced like automotive paint, (but water based low toxic). You process it with oven temperatures like 130 deg C. has to be stored in a fridge 7 deg C to last more than 2 months. Dow and Dupont and Philips have something too...but they seem to be after the big fish right now -- I haven't gotten them to talk. John Griessen ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: OT: FPGAs, SDSL, Ronjas...
On Nov 2, 2006, at 4:35 PM, Michael Sokolov wrote: When the ISP detects this, Do you think that ISPs have nothing better to do than go into the low level debug features of their DSLAMs, look at individual packets in hex etc. to detect that I started using a different implementation of their line management protocol? Further, very few ISPs actually employ anyone with half a clue anymore anyway. Trivial matters such as making DNS entries is beyond most ISPs' staff these days. This must be a sign of the apocalypse. I am agreeing with Michael Sokolov. As for the relic Copper Mountain DSLAMs, I've just bought one on eBay and am now waiting for the UPS man. Those "relics" are deployed by the dozen all over the country. I am currently responsible for two of them myself. Be prepared...the user interface is...erm, obtuse. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Cape Coral, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: furnace controller I/O port again
> Be sure to check how long it takes the op-amps to come out of > saturation if you intend to use this for high-speed signals. > Comparators (ones with totem-pole outputs) are usually better suited > to this application. I'll look into it. The thing about op amps is that they're cheap and tiny. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: gEDA user with problems
Title: gEDA user with problems
Hello,
Could somebody show me what I am doing wrong? I am using Ubuntu Edgy with gEDA default package.
1) I am trying to activate the auto numbering for components placement. I modified /etc/gEDA/system-gschemrc to:
…
(load (string-append gedadatarc "/scheme/auto-uref.scm"))
(add-hook! add-component-hook auto-uref)
(add-hook! copy-component-hook auto-uref)
…
And I can not see any auto numbering.
2) There is a bug on gschem? On the library list, the alphabetically order is scrambled. I have a temporary work around:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=282040&highlight=geda
3)I am trying to define a default working path for my projects:
…
;(source-library "${HOME}/projects/my_schematics")
(source-library "/home/projects")
…
but I can not see any effect.
If somebody know what is wrong or where is my mistake, please let me know.
Thanks,
Adrian
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Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?
On Nov 2, 2006, at 9:16 AM, John Griessen wrote: The education could lead to real world washing machine controller stuff too -- by switching to printed organic transistors...where you can go straight to power handling with the same printed material. Which one is the MSP430 series from? The PDP-11? Yes, oddly enough, the MSP430's instruction set is so similar to that of the PDP-11 that it's somewhat spooky. It sure doesn't look like an accident! ;) Are printed organic transistors ready for prime-time? I've not read anything about them. Although I have an acquaintance who is working on that stuff at a university in the UK, he doesn't often tell of how things are going. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Cape Coral, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
RE: gEDA-user: slotting problem
Hi John Here is a link for "gEDA: HowTo, Tune-Up, Quirks, Tips&Tricks for Ubuntu Edgy version": http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=282040&highlight=geda I am trying to share my experience and to solve some "mysteries" of dealing with gEDA To use "slotdef" attributes, you can edit your component and use the template from the picture. For more than one slot, simply define one more. Adrian -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Griessen Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 6:32 AM To: gEDA user mailing list Subject: Re: gEDA-user: slotting problem When creating a slotted symbol, How do you use slotdef attribute? I have not found creating a slotted symbol in the gschem manual John G Ales Hvezda wrote: if you change the slot number using either Edit/Slot... > or by double clicking on the component and using the multiple > attribute edit dialog box, then the slot number should update correctly. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?
On Nov 2, 2006, at 10:05 AM, DJ Delorie wrote: Well my tentative plan is to duplicate the functionality of the individual boards, but not to scale. Many DEC machines of that era were built with "Flip Chip" boards, 2.5"x5" PCBs with card-edge connectors that typically implement relatively little logic...say, a pair of flip-flops. When I was a kid, my dad got me some time on a tanker (ship) that was being automated. They had a fridge-sized console that was built that way which ran things. I spent a few days helping them finish the install and teaching them electronics, and they let me ride with them on the sea trials. Oh wow, that must've been a load of fun! I think my watch is more powerful than that was, though. Eh, "power" to me is "gets the job done right". Well, most of the time anyway. They'll have to pry my Crays from my cold, dead fingers. ;) -Dave -- Dave McGuire Cape Coral, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: slotting problem
Hi John, On Thursday 02 November 2006 15:32, John Griessen wrote: > When creating a slotted symbol, > > How do you use slotdef attribute? I have not found creating a > slotted symbol in the gschem manual The symbol creation guide is here: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:scg And the attributes list ist there: http://geda.seul.org/wiki/geda:master_attributes_list Regards Werner ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: OT: FPGAs, SDSL, Ronjas...
Karel Kulhavy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > When the ISP detects this, Do you think that ISPs have nothing better to do than go into the low level debug features of their DSLAMs, look at individual packets in hex etc. to detect that I started using a different implementation of their line management protocol? > he can change the standard Well, we have a precedent already: @#$%^&* Verizon has decided to decommission their own nice solid Enterprise DSL network (built with Copper Mountain DSLAMs) and reduce to reselling crappy Covad service. Covad uses Nokia DSLAMs. They are now connecting all new customers through Covad even where they have previously had their own DSLAMs. I don't know what'll happen to the existing customers on the old CM network, but I won't be surprised if one nice day they force them to switch. Doesn't matter for me though as my SDSL line is already of the Nokia/Covad flavor since the last physical relocation of the facilities. (I don't know if it's because they had already started their diabolical plan then or because this rural location has never had Enterprise DSL to begin with.) As for the relic Copper Mountain DSLAMs, I've just bought one on eBay and am now waiting for the UPS man. > and then you have > to do the work once more again. Which is where the FPGA saves the day again. That's what field- programmable is all about: change the hardware with vi and make. > Or he puts "only original modem from the > ISP is allowed" into the contract. They probably do already, but how are they going to enforce it? The worst they can do is not provide me with tech support for a modem of my own design, but that's rather obvious. They won't disconnect me -- as long as I pay the bill they don't give a damn about anything else. I'm perfectly free to experiment with unsupported hw/sw/fw at my own risk. > Or what if the ISP starts to telling you what you can do and what you can't? > For example, my ISP Cablecom Switzerland says in the contract: [...] If my ISP were like that, I wouldn't be their customer! Although of course not all business customers are the same and I can't expect exactly the same treatment as their T3, OC12 etc. customers, it still IS a business service, and restrictions like you describe are unheard of on mission-critical business Internet services -- at least the kind of business Internet services that I would ever subscribe to. > What is more reliably is getting rid of the abominable ISP and taking the > whole > infrastructure into your hands. All you need is my device called Ronja > [...] > Of course you don't get an Internet connection with this, but if you find > more neightbour of friends you can make a LAN Rather useless for me as there's nothing but horses and cows in a 20 km radius of my facility. I'm rather amazed that we have a Covad DSLAM here. Are Americans now spoiled to the point that even horses and cows can't live without high speed Internet any more? > and then connect with some > professional-grade connection. Aha! You still need the professional-grade connection! That's what my SDSL is -- professional-grade connection, non-profit organisation budget-appropriate. Of course I would never do a project like this for a consumer service like ADSL or DOCSIS -- but _S_DSL is a different story. > Do something else instead :) Let's just agree that we have different interests in life, and leave it at that. MS, who wants to get back to drawing OSDCU schematics ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: furnace controller I/O port again
On 11/1/06, DJ Delorie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I played with the op-amp idea, and actually got a working prototype on proto-board. http://www.delorie.com/pcb/io_port4.sch The "out" (line-driving) op amps come in a tiny dual-amp package, and the use of resistor dividers and ability to swap +/- inputs lets it drive the two MOSFETs directly. The "in" (sensing) op amp uses a divider to bring 0-5v down to 0-3.3v, with the reference suitable for both 3.3v CMOS and 5v TTL levels (effectively 1.65v). That op amp is available in a SOT-325 package, making it about as big as a transistor. The use of op-amps also nicely solves the voltage conversion issue, letting me run the R8Cs at 3.3v while still driving the thermostat lines at 5v. Be sure to check how long it takes the op-amps to come out of saturation if you intend to use this for high-speed signals. Comparators (ones with totem-pole outputs) are usually better suited to this application. Regards, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You think that it is a secret, but it never has been one. - fortune cookie ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?
> I am looking forward to the day when the receiver will be finished and I can > place a "fully transistorized" and "19 transistors" retro labels on them :) "transistor radio" :-) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?
>Well my tentative plan is to duplicate the functionality of the > individual boards, but not to scale. Many DEC machines of that era > were built with "Flip Chip" boards, 2.5"x5" PCBs with card-edge > connectors that typically implement relatively little logic...say, a > pair of flip-flops. When I was a kid, my dad got me some time on a tanker (ship) that was being automated. They had a fridge-sized console that was built that way which ran things. I spent a few days helping them finish the install and teaching them electronics, and they let me ride with them on the sea trials. I think my watch is more powerful than that was, though. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?
> Ohh my ohh my... well you do know that, from the William > Gibson/Bruce Sterling novel "The Difference Engine", someone who > writes code for a mechanical babage computational engine is known as > a "clacker"? Yup, I've got that book. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: slotting problem
> However, if you change the slot number using either Edit/Slot... > or by double clicking on the component and using the multiple attribute > edit dialog box, then the slot number should update correctly. None of these work for me. I'm not sure how to use the Edit/Slot... function - it doesn't even seem to change the slot attribute value (select component, choose Edit/Slot..., change value of slot in dialog). The dialog box changes the slot attribute value but doesn't update the pins. I was right clicking and choosing Edit (which I think brings up the same dialog box). This only happens for a newly inserted component. If I save, exit and reload it all works fine (except Edit/Slot...). ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: slotting problem
When creating a slotted symbol, How do you use slotdef attribute? I have not found creating a slotted symbol in the gschem manual John G Ales Hvezda wrote: if you change the slot number using either Edit/Slot... or by double clicking on the component and using the multiple attribute edit dialog box, then the slot number should update correctly. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?
Dave McGuire wrote:
It all depends on what you're into. I've been discussing a project
with a friend that would involve building what amounts to a copy of the
PDP-8 ("Straight-8", no suffix) with individual transistors. It's fun,
cool, and highly educational in a number of areas.
The education could lead to real world washing machine controller stuff too --
by switching to printed organic transistors...where you can go straight to power
handling with the same printed material. Which one is the MSP430 series from?
The PDP-11?
John G
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Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?
On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 10:58:57PM +, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Steve Meier <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Sure why not here is a link to an individual who built a replica of the > > Apollo Guidance System, using discrete components and wire wrap, in his > > basement. > > Of course a discrete logic wire-wrapped computer is cool. There is no > question on that one. But there is also a place for FPGAs. Yes, it > sucks that they require proprietary software. Unfortunately we don't > have the manpower and firepower to annihilate all police and national > guard etc. and seize the CEOs of Altera and Xilinx, connect variacs to > them and slowly ramp up the voltage until they release full specs for > their chips. So we can't open-source that part yet. But we can still > use FPGAs in the meantime to help open-source other things, even if not > the FPGA itself. > > As a specific example, right now I'm working on open-sourcing the SDSL > Internet connection technology. See the project home page I've pointed > to earlier for the gory details. The basic idea is to get rid of the > abominable closed source "modem" provided by the ISP and to replace it > with an Open Source Hardware device that connects directly to the copper > pair and talks the SDSL electrical signal format in open source. When the ISP detects this, he can change the standard and then you have to do the work once more again. Or he puts "only original modem from the ISP is allowed" into the contract. Or what if the ISP starts to telling you what you can do and what you can't? For example, my ISP Cablecom Switzerland says in the contract: 1) they don't guarantee freedom from failures and faults (my modem hangs every couple of days) 2) you are not supposed to load the link 100% from 14pm to the midnight, especially by downloading thinigs from p2p, if you do they can cut you off or limit your rate 3) the rate I pay for is maximum rate, there is no minimum rate 4) The downlink is designated as 4Mbps but it runs 2.2Mbps. The uplink is something horribly slow (it's assymetric). Which pisses me every time I upload photographs and compiled PDF's, postscripts and PNG's on the Ronja website. What is more reliably is getting rid of the abominable ISP and taking the whole infrastructure into your hands. All you need is my device called Ronja http://ronja.twibright.com which communicates 10Mbps full duplex over 1.4km in air with direct visibility using visible or infrared light. Then: 1) Freedom from failures and faults is guaranteed except fog, if a fault comes all you need is go to your roof and fix what you did wrong, or send a bugreport to the Ronja mailing list. 2) you are free to load the link 100% 24/7, it doesn't matter, you don't even see the 100% load on round-trip or web or ssh latency 3) You don't pay any monthly fee. You pay once for the components, the rate is guaranteed to be 10Mbps +/-200ppm. 4) The link is symmetric, full duplex Of course you don't get an Internet connection with this, but if you find more neightbour of friends you can make a LAN and then connect with some professional-grade connection. > > If the SDSL line uses ATM as all newer DSLAMs do, connecting to it > requires an ATM TC-PHY (implementation of I.432.1) and possibly also a > custom framer. Now let's be practical here -- do you think that an > SSI/MSI implementation of those components would make a practically No. That puts up in front of a choice - either do it with FPGA, or bypass it somewhere deeper (Ronja). > ISP? An FPGA implementation easily can, however. Replacing the ISP- > provided box with an open source implementation that uses an FPGA won't > increase the number of closed source components in your house because > the ISP-provided SDSL modem has one too if it's an ATM-based flavor of > SDSL. But the other components of the "modem", i.e., the top level > architecture, the microprocessor firmware, all layer 2 and higher stuff, > will change from closed to open source. Isn't that a worthy goal? > We can open-source SDSL using an Altera FPGA now (the exact same FPGA > used in the current Covad-provided router), while open-sourcing the FPGA > itself will have to wait until we can gather enough manpower and > firepower to annihilate the PD in whatever city harbors the Altera CEO > and hook electrodes to the bastard. > > Another reason why an FPGA saves the day is that there are umpteen > gazillion different flavors of SDSL -- as many as there are DSLAM > vendors, each making their own CPE "modem" with Yet Another proprietary > router OS to fight with. My open SDSL connectivity project seeks to > replace them all with a single open source hardware platform that can > handle all flavors. How would you propose doing that without an FPGA? Do something else instead :) CL< > Practical sensible solutions only please. > > MS > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.se
Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?
On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 12:53:13AM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote:
> On Nov 1, 2006, at 10:58 PM, DJ Delorie wrote:
> >> It all depends on what you're into. I've been discussing a
> >>project with a friend that would involve building what amounts to a
> >>copy of the PDP-8 ("Straight-8", no suffix) with individual
> >>transistors. It's fun, cool, and highly educational in a number of
> >>areas.
> >
> >Are you going to be true to the time and use TO-92, or "cheat" and use
> >SOT-535's?
>
> Well my tentative plan is to duplicate the functionality of the
> individual boards, but not to scale. Many DEC machines of that era
> were built with "Flip Chip" boards, 2.5"x5" PCBs with card-edge
> connectors that typically implement relatively little logic...say, a
> pair of flip-flops. The PDP-8/S, for example (a model I've studied
> much more closely than the Straight-8), uses maybe fifteen different
> types of Flip Chips, but hundreds of them. I'm thinking of cloning
> the functionality of those Flip Chips board-for-board, but much
> smaller, perhaps the size of a large postage stamp, using 0805
> resistors & capacitors and SOT-23 transistors.
>
> Though I have no problem with TO-92 packages, I'm no longer a big
> fan of through-hole components in general...too much of a pain to
> work with when compared with surface-mount, and using smaller parts
> makes for a much smaller...perhaps even desktop...finished unit.
I am prototyping my Ronja RX on TO-92 2N3904. But it's a bit pain in the ass
because I have to cut the base as short as possible and put possible capacitors
hooked to base as short as possible too. Very unhandy for unskilled user.
The final version will be SMD, MMBT3904 or how it is called, which is easier
for ordinary user because there is nothing to botch, and will be smaller. The
electronics is now adding about 10 unnecessary centimeters to the
optical head, with increasing wind resistance and a need for a little
more robust construction.
CL<
>
> I'm very hot to do this, but I won't be able to devote much time
> to it anytime soon, as my employment is going away in a few weeks and
> I'm busy scrambling to find work in the middle of a technological
> wasteland.
>
> >The Museum of Science in Boston has a computer that plays tic tac toe.
> >It's made of wooden Tinker Toys.
>
> That is just too damn cool.
>
> -Dave
>
> --
> Dave McGuire
> Cape Coral, FL
>
>
>
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Re: gEDA-user: Re: Pointer to 3d CAD?
On Wed, Nov 01, 2006 at 10:58:02PM -0500, DJ Delorie wrote:
>
> >It all depends on what you're into. I've been discussing a
> > project with a friend that would involve building what amounts to a
> > copy of the PDP-8 ("Straight-8", no suffix) with individual
> > transistors. It's fun, cool, and highly educational in a number of
> > areas.
Now I am rebuilding the Ronja receiver with individual transistors instead of
the NE592. The dynamic range was low, the chip operated out of the specified
thermal range and you had to pick up transistor pairs with similar
amplification.
Only now I discovered the beauty of symmetric limiting amplifiers, current
sources and cascode configuration. Now I have two stages, the first is
4-transistor and the second 6-transistor. I want to make 3 stages, 6
transistors each and today I have to go into a shop again for another 10
transistors, because I have just 1 left here.
Transistors are cheap. Transistors are fast. Transistors have almost unlimited
operating temperature range. The manufacturer doesn't keep the secrets of
operation away from you. You can implement interesting functions by clever
arrangement of them.
I am looking forward to the day when the receiver will be finished and I can
place a "fully transistorized" and "19 transistors" retro labels on them :)
Finally people will stop asking "where can I get that NE592 circuit"
and "my Ronja doesn't work on short distances". Does it matter if you solder
14 pins of NE592 or 5 3-pin transistors?
CL<
>
> Are you going to be true to the time and use TO-92, or "cheat" and use
> SOT-535's?
>
> The Museum of Science in Boston has a computer that plays tic tac toe.
> It's made of wooden Tinker Toys.
>
>
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gEDA-user: Compatibility with Easy-Pc
Hi, Is there any way to open easy-pc files (extensions .sch and .pcb) using gshem and pcb? I've had a look on the web but didn't find anything helpfull. I work on a linux pc (Fedora core version 5) with geda, but need to interact with my colleagues who use easy-pc. Thanks for any suggestions you may have, best regards anne anne Vanhoest Implanted Devices Group, Dept of Medical Physics and Bioengineering Malet Place Engineering Building UCL Gower Street WC1E 6BT London phone: 020 7679 0296 fax: 020 7679 0255 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: slotting problem
>I seem to be having slotting problems with gschem. If I add a 7474 >component, for instance, and change its slot number to 2, the pin >numbers don't update. In the gschem log I see: > How are you changing the slot number? If you change the slot number by directly editing the slot= attribute, then yes, I see these same messages and that's most likely a bug (and a bug has been filed: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1589247&group_id=161080&atid=818426 ). However, if you change the slot number using either Edit/Slot... or by double clicking on the component and using the multiple attribute edit dialog box, then the slot number should update correctly. Thanks for the bug report. -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: slotting problem
I seem to be having slotting problems with gschem. If I add a 7474 component, for instance, and change its slot number to 2, the pin numbers don't update. In the gschem log I see: Opened file [/home/des0prb/geda/share/gEDA/sym/74/7474-1.sym] numslots attribute missing Slotting not allowed for this component numslots attribute missing Slotting not allowed for this component numslots attribute missing Slotting not allowed for this component If I save and reload, the pin numbers are then right. Also, if I save before changing the slot number, then reload and change the slot number, the pins update ok. Am I doing something wrong, or is this a known bug? I'm using gschem-20061020 built from sources (the latest ones on the source download page). There's some reference on the list to a similar problem, but only a suggestion to upgrade to a newer version, which I thought I had. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
