Re: gEDA-user: New gnucap development snapshot
On Saturday 09 December 2006 05:23, Colin Hall wrote: > Downloaded, untarred, configured, compiled and linked without > error. The user manual built just fine. Commands were: > [iMacG4:~] cgh% > [iMacG4:~] cgh% tar -xf ~/Desktop/gnucap-2006-12-04.tar > [iMacG4:~] cgh% ./configure --prefix=$HOME > [iMacG4:~] cgh% make install > [iMacG4:~] cgh% rehash > [iMacG4:~] cgh% which gnucap > /Users/cgh/bin/gnucap > > I tried to run it: > > [iMacG4:~] cgh% gnucap > incorrect link order > Abort > [iMacG4:~] cgh% > > Looks like the Mac OSX loader failed. I thought I would send > this before investigating the load error any further. No. It has to do with the new "dispatcher" which supports plugins. It is experimental code. The "incorrect link order" message says that gnucap tried to install a "plugin" but the dispatcher is not ready to receive it yet. All models, devices, and behavioral functions can be plugins, even simple things like resistors, and the "behavioral functions" like the spice style "sin" or "pwl" sources. In a near future version, all of the commands will be set up as plugins too, making the core very small. In this snapshot, all the modules that could be plugins are linked in, so you still have a single executable. To get a working simulator, the easiest thing to do for now is to use the stable "0.35" release instead of the development snapshot. To help me .. Tell more about what you have, in particular: 1. The compiler version "g++ --version" if you are using the gnu compiler, otherwise what are you using? 2. The actual text spew you get from "configure" and from "make", especially the link stage, which is probably the last "g++" command, the one that lists all the files. Thanks for the report. > My first port of call would be to take Fink off the path, > re-configure and re-build. Fink has nothing to do with it. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Re: Wishes, bugs and misunderstandings (21-25)
[snip] >> 23) Non-Feature: It is possible to launch the create attribute dialog if >> an attribute is selected. On ok the action just does nothing. Please >> launch an error popup instead. > Interestingly enough, I don't see this behavior. 1) Select an attribute that is attached to something already 2) Execute Add/Attribute... 3) Type name and value of the attribute 4) Press OK 5) The new attribute is placed What steps am I missing here? -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: CVS gnetlist & gsch2pcb problems
[snip] >He has other syntax changes to report for the various .scm >files.. I'll let him do that. > Yes, I will be checking in some fixes for guile-1.8.1 once I have finished testing them. -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gerber to .dxf converter
DJ Delorie wrote: The advantage of going pcb->dxf and not gerber->dxf is that you only have to worry about supporting the data we have, which is significantly simpler than trying to support a generic gerber file. Oh yes, I hear that. What's easy and what's most generally useful seldom overlap. I wish I knew of a good rule checker tool for .dxf file portability... writing a file that looks similar to .dxf is a lot easier than writing .dxf that any tool can read, unfortunately. I don't have enough experience with .dxf to be confident that I could write a well formed file. -dave ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: IEEE Spectrum Letter
>Congrats to Stuart Brorson in getting his letter to the editor in IEEE >Spectrum about gEDA! Yes indeed. I found it in print last Tuesday. :) For those who are not IEEE memebers you can read the blurb here: http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/dec06/4767 Look for "Software Radio" -Ales ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: practical pcb layout-fu
John Griessen wrote: So. with those ideas in mind, a GUI or hotkey set of commands to switch between different weightings of costs for different signal paths would be good. Different rules for RF and short med speed digital paths, and audio and heat dissipating power zones. switch easily between rule sets. In point of fact, the existing auto-router has a set of cost functions, iteration counts etc that really should be available for adjustment at the user interface. Recently I've been making improvements to the autorouter; it produces much more "normal" looking tracks and generally is performing better. With that said I think that most people have unrealisitic expectation of what an auto router should be able to do, or how simple they are to implement. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: practical pcb layout-fu (was: router theory)
John Griessen wrote: [...] >switch easily between rule sets [...] I fully agree. No autorouter can guess which cost factors are more important than others, and human aid will often be necessary. Some years ago I did a pcb with the autorouter of Eagle, and after finetuning all parameters I got an usable result. A nice GUI for tuning parameters will be necessary. But a nice algorithm is needed too. I prefer a basically simple one (Lee's and ants is simple). Does someone know which algorithm pcb autorouter is currently using? Best regards Stefan Salewski ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: practical pcb layout-fu (was: router theory)
Stefan Salewski wrote: What do you think about a combination of Lee's and ants algorithm? Lee's algorithm finds a set of (overlapping) paths between two points, which includes the shortest and best path. And ants algorithm seems to be good to optimize these path, which is to select the best from this overlapping set. Just an idea. I think the most important thing is that those algorithms are about one path, and a layout is about many, so setting the initial conditions is a big deal for success. Initial conditions like: How many paths to attempt "on auto" before a human looks at it again What is in the way? parts, paths previously approved by a human, barriers/keep out zones put there by a human, What layers are available all visible a subset of visible does a layer have a preferred run length direction? Is a via expensive? Is more area expensive? So. with those ideas in mind, a GUI or hotkey set of commands to switch between different weightings of costs for different signal paths would be good. Different rules for RF and short med speed digital paths, and audio and heat dissipating power zones. switch easily between rule sets. John G ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Free papers about pcb router theory
Bob Paddock wrote: > "Autorouting with the A* algorithm", > by Randall Nevin , in >Dr. Dobb's Journal of Software Tools, >Volume 14, Number 9, September, 1989. >http://www.ddj.com/184408202 Thanks for the link, I will read it soon. What do you think about a combination of Lee's and ants algorithm? Lee's algorithm finds a set of (overlapping) paths between two points, which includes the shortest and best path. And ants algorithm seems to be good to optimize these path, which is to select the best from this overlapping set. Just an idea. Best regards Stefan Salewski ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gerber to .dxf converter
The advantage of going pcb->dxf and not gerber->dxf is that you only have to worry about supporting the data we have, which is significantly simpler than trying to support a generic gerber file. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: IEEE Spectrum Letter
Congrats to Stuart Brorson in getting his letter to the editor in IEEE Spectrum about gEDA! Kurt ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gerber to .dxf converter
Dave N6NZ wrote: John Griessen wrote: There are a couple of python cad programs with open source to look at that do some .ps and .dxf output, and no importing. Pythoncad and cadvas source code might be helpful in learning curve to get PCB to write out .dxf. From an overall work flow perspective, it might make sense to start with gerber previewer and add .dxf output to that. That way, all pcb layout programs are enabled, not just PCB. (Just thinking of my compatriots in the Homebrew Robotics Club -- quite a few different pcb layout programs are represented.) that would be useful. My guess is once someone were to acquire some dxf-fu that a dxf exporter for pcb would not be that hard. The entirety of the gerber exporter for pcb (including comment and blank lines) is 990. Of that, a fairly good bit could probably be reused (i.e. you need many/most of the same functions, just the internals need to change). I actually started such a thing a long time ago but looks like I didn't get very far. I think I got stalled in the "learn about how dxf works" phase. -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gerber to .dxf converter
John Griessen wrote: There are a couple of python cad programs with open source to look at that do some .ps and .dxf output, and no importing. Pythoncad and cadvas source code might be helpful in learning curve to get PCB to write out .dxf. From an overall work flow perspective, it might make sense to start with gerber previewer and add .dxf output to that. That way, all pcb layout programs are enabled, not just PCB. (Just thinking of my compatriots in the Homebrew Robotics Club -- quite a few different pcb layout programs are represented.) -dave ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gerber to .dxf converter
John Griessen wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PCB is free, and it'll export .eps. It's not a dxf but perhaps your cad application can import it. You'll have to give it a scale So, did this keep the stroked vectors nature of the data, or rasterize it finely? Keep it vector, and either import at a scale if you know what it should be (say for the second or third iteration of the exact same PCB output) or import it, and scale it. I remember measurements being off on the order of 0.001" ... which could just as much be a result of the limitations of the scale tool (in cad) as my computation of the scale coefficient (in the HP). Phil ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gerber to .dxf converter
> Gerber is just few types of output shapes in the PCB case we use, > since the only apertures used are circles and squares. Lines, arcs, > and aperture sizes, aperture round or square are all that is needed > to draw a PCB in .gbr or .ps or .dxf. We also use flashes, polygons, and anti-drawn layers. Hey Harry, can we use the clipper code to create a set of polygons that reflects all the not-copper parts of the board? We could use that set to drive a CNC mill directly. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gerber to .dxf converter
> So, did this keep the stroked vectors nature of the data, or rasterize it > finely? EPS and PS output from PCB is always vectors. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB problem - bug?
Most likely, you haven't set up the layer groups correctly. That's what tells pcb which layers are "top" and which are "bottom". ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gerber to .dxf converter
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I understand it, dxf is open. I don't really know if there are gnu or open code modules for creating and working with them There are a couple of python cad programs with open source to look at that do some .ps and .dxf output, and no importing. Pythoncad and cadvas source code might be helpful in learning curve to get PCB to write out .dxf. Gerber is just few types of output shapes in the PCB case we use, since the only apertures used are circles and squares. Lines, arcs, and aperture sizes, aperture round or square are all that is needed to draw a PCB in .gbr or .ps or .dxf. John G ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gerber to .dxf converter
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: PCB is free, and it'll export .eps. It's not a dxf but perhaps your cad application can import it. You'll have to give it a scale So, did this keep the stroked vectors nature of the data, or rasterize it finely? John G ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB fab supplies -- drills
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Once I broke all the best sizes from this set, I went to high speed. I drill everything wet to keep the dust down and have been happy with steel. The recommendation to use dental burrs for prototyping has some merit. The burrs are short compared to the pcb fab drills, so they won't break easily. Some carbide ones are for sale now on ebay -- 15 lots...unknown sizes. I'm getting some to try out since Gary K8IZ says they work well. I'll just mic them ans sort out into sizes to use. John G ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: CVS gnetlist & gsch2pcb problems
At 2006-12-08 12:24, Stuart Brorson wrote: On Fri, 8 Dec 2006, Peter TB Brett wrote: On Friday 08 December 2006 16:04, Stuart Brorson wrote: What version of guile do you have? The latest guile, 1.8.1 which comes on some of the latest distros seems to have broken a lot of things. Ales is working on a fix. 1.8.0 here. I dunno, it does *look* like Guile breakage. It's a bit of a shame, because I really *needed* BOM generation yesterday afternoon -- I ended up having to do it by hand. Not fun AT ALL. :( Your best bet is to backrev to the last working guile, 1.6.7. Let us know if it works; if so, then we have some work to do on guile compatibility for the newest version. When 1.8.1 hasn't worked for me, backing up to 1.6.7 or 1.6.8 has fixed the problem. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: PCB problem - bug?
People, I'm using the PCB package from the 20060907 gEDA disk release (thanks to Stuart Brorson). In the course of my current design effort, I elected to move some bypass capacitors to the back side (solder) of the board. No problem so far. When I routed the board I found that router was attempting to connect to the bypass caps as though they were on the front (component) side of the board. While I can correct these problems manually, even the DRC checker thinks the pads are on the component side of the board, and complains accordingly. Now, is this a bug (possibly already corrected) or am I seeing some kind of installation problem? If it's an already corrected bug (I seem to remember a host of complaints following this release) where can I download the updated pcb files? Harold Skank ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New gnucap development snapshot
Colin Hall wrote: Hi Al, System: Apple iMac Processor: PowerPC G4 OS: Mac OS X 10.3.9 Other: Fink is installed. Downloaded, untarred, configured, compiled and linked without error. The user manual built just fine. Commands were: [iMacG4:~] cgh% [iMacG4:~] cgh% tar -xf ~/Desktop/gnucap-2006-12-04.tar [iMacG4:~] cgh% ./configure --prefix=$HOME [iMacG4:~] cgh% make install [iMacG4:~] cgh% rehash [iMacG4:~] cgh% which gnucap /Users/cgh/bin/gnucap I tried to run it: [iMacG4:~] cgh% gnucap incorrect link order Abort [iMacG4:~] cgh% Looks like the Mac OSX loader failed. I thought I would send this before investigating the load error any further. could you send the part of the 'make' output where gnucap is linked? -Dan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: New gnucap development snapshot
Hi Al, System: Apple iMac Processor: PowerPC G4 OS: Mac OS X 10.3.9 Other: Fink is installed. Downloaded, untarred, configured, compiled and linked without error. The user manual built just fine. Commands were: [iMacG4:~] cgh% [iMacG4:~] cgh% tar -xf ~/Desktop/gnucap-2006-12-04.tar [iMacG4:~] cgh% ./configure --prefix=$HOME [iMacG4:~] cgh% make install [iMacG4:~] cgh% rehash [iMacG4:~] cgh% which gnucap /Users/cgh/bin/gnucap I tried to run it: [iMacG4:~] cgh% gnucap incorrect link order Abort [iMacG4:~] cgh% Looks like the Mac OSX loader failed. I thought I would send this before investigating the load error any further. My first port of call would be to take Fink off the path, re-configure and re-build. Regards, Colin. On 5 Dec 2006, at 1:28 am, al davis wrote: There is a new development snapshot of gnucap available. There's a package at: http://www.gnucap.org/devel/gnucap-2006-12-04.tar.gz http://geda.seul.org/dist/gnucap-2006-12-04.tar.gz This snapshot keeps the new way devices and models are dispatched, and adds two user commands "attach" and "detach". These commands allow the user to add and remove plugins at run time. The 2006-11-snapshot added the capability to add something just by linking it, with no other changes required. This version adds the ability to do it manually at run time. Work on Verilog-AMS is going well. This is part of it. Near future enhancements include the ability to add commands in this manner. A wrapper to allow Spice models (C code) to be used as plugins has been designed, and is in process of being coded. As usual, I am asking for feedback, particularly on non-Linux and non-GNU systems. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: making gnetlist calm down
Hi, thanks for your answer. > Ales Hvezda <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > [snip] >> Found duplicate net name, renaming [+3.3V] to [BS1] WARNING: Trying >> to rename something twice: +3.3V and +3.3V are both a src and dest >> name This warning is okay if you have multiple levels of hierarchy! > This warning shows up when you have named a net twice, usually > once with netname= and then again by attaching a power symbol. If > this is okay to you, then you can ignore these messages. Keep in mind > that gnetlist will pick one of the net names and run with it. If it > isn't the one you wanted, then you need to change your schematic (to > only name a net once). That makes sense. I guess, this naming change is coherent for all the schematics prosessed in one run, and won't rip nets apart? Than that's really not a problem. regards, David -- GnuPG public key: http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~dvdkhlng/dk.gpg Fingerprint: B17A DC95 D293 657B 4205 D016 7DEF 5323 C174 7D40 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gerber to .dxf converter
On 12/8/06, Dave N6NZ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Is there any free (as in speech) software that will convert gerber to .dxf? Reason: I have access to a laser cutter through the TechShop and am trying to work out a path to cut el-cheapo solder paste screens in acetate sheet or similar material. I tried the path of creating a PostScript check plot and running the .ps through pstoedit, which looks promising, although I haven't tried to cut the resulting file yet. But... seems like a direct path from the gerber would be better instead of relying on the check plot and the inherent precision limitations of PostScript. Or perhaps I underestimate the check plots? -dave I'm suprised the cutter doesn't take gerber directly, since that's the standard for CNC machines. Regards, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- You think that it is a secret, but it never has been one. - fortune cookie ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gerber to .dxf converter
hhmmm... QCAD only opens .dxf, pstoedit only opens PS, not EPS. But I guess if I don't do 'fill page' I should be OK. -dave DJ Delorie wrote: PCB is free, and it'll export .eps. Oh, right. EPS, not PS output. Both are Postscript, and thus rasterized, but the PS output may be scaled to fit on the page. If you don't select the "fill page" option it may still work (with an offset or rotation) but the EPS is a better choice. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: gerber to .dxf converter
DJ Delorie wrote: It's common to want to move PCB layouts into cad for chassis layout work. What would be involved in giving PCB this feature? Write an export HID. It's the same way we export gerber and postscript. .dxf would be very cool... but having been fooling with .dxf lately, i'd say it has plenty of gotchas. bear in mind, i had never looked inside a .dxf file as of three weeks ago, so YMMV. in the mean time, i have written a program to extract an interesting subset of a .dxf file and convert it to instructions to drive an Epilog laser cutter. (enough to cut table top robot chassis from 3mm acrylic) the problem is that .dxf has a pretty ad-hoc structure. pulling out pieces that you are interested in is not too hard. reading the whole thing and making sense of it is hard. writing a .dxf file that lots of different .dxf readers will interpret correctly is hard. QCAD has a GPL'ed dxf i/o library for C++. i'll probably end up re-writing my laser cutter convert to use that library. (another library choice is DIME.) even with the library, writing a correctly structured .dxf file is hard. don't let me discourage you... i'd love to have .dxf export :) just don't expect to complete it in a weekend. for my purposes, it sounds like running off the eps sounds sufficient. -dave ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
