Re: gEDA-user: connecting elements in PCB
On Fri, 24 Jul 2009, Oliver Lehmann wrote: >Hi, > >I'd like to start drawing a PCB but do not want to import any gschem >files... how do I connect the elemnts with circuit tracks? Are the lines >created by the "line" button circuit tracks? > Yes, lines, arcs and polygons. Also note the layers, most of them will result in copper, but some will not (silk for example). Btw, you never import the gschem file in pcb; you rather import the netlist that helps you connecting the right pins and avoid shorts. This feature is not mandantory (but for anything larger than a few pins it's very very useful). I remember doing my first few boards without netlist - it took a lot of time to make sure everything was connected correctly :) HTH, Tibor Palinkas ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: connecting elements in PCB
Hi, I'd like to start drawing a PCB but do not want to import any gschem files... how do I connect the elemnts with circuit tracks? Are the lines created by the "line" button circuit tracks? Greetings -- Oliver Lehmann http://www.pofo.de/ http://wishlist.ans-netz.de/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Learning Spice: TwoStageAmp example
I had similar problems way back when so I wrote KJWaves. Have you tried that? There's a tutorial for it on the ngspice web site. Kurt > -- > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:42:10 -0700 > From: "Daniel B. Thurman" > Subject: Re: gEDA-user: Learning Spice: TwoStageAmp example > To: gEDA user mailing list > Message-ID: <4a68e742.2070...@cdkkt.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > al davis wrote: > > On Monday 20 July 2009, Daniel B. Thurman wrote: > > > >> Also, I would appreciate it if someone could point > >> me to a tutorial or sample project that shows how > >> one can do spice simulation! > >> > > Did you look at what Stefan suggested for Gnucap? > > > Yes, I did > >>> Very basic: > >>> http://www.johannes-bauer.com/electronics/ > >>> > I have gotten all the way though to the point of trying > to display the curves with `gwave'. The problem is with > Fedora's 9/10/11 gwave builds, or so I think. > > It seems there is a problem with gwave builds on Fedora. > > As reported, if you start `gwave mycircuit.out', nothing > appears at all, but then seconds later a crash dump appears > on the command line where initiated and bugzilla pops up > with the crash file to be saved. If starting `gwave' by itself, > the application pops up, but then selecting" `File->Read File...' > results in the with dump errors and the bugzilla application pops > up for crash dump saves. > > I reported this problem on the Fedora-Users mailing list and so > far no response. I tried to build gwave from sources but there > was a problem in which make was failing to locate gnome2 > modules, so I gave up. > > I also downloaded the ngspice source, did a build, and all compiled > with success, but issuing a `make check' revealed that the tests fail > short starting with the bipolar models and quits where there are many > more tests to go. > > For some reason, it seems I cannot get a simulation to work > with the gEDA tools and I thought I was doing something very > wrong, and that is why I was asking for a tutorial explaining, > step-by-step, so as to demonstrate that the these tools actually > work. So far, it has not, with the tutorials I have been working > with. > >>> And gnucap documentation: > >>> http://wiki.gnucap.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=gnucap:manual > >>> ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: merge multi symbol components
John Doty wrote: > Make can orchestrate simulations, document construction, data > reduction, and much more (including, of course EDA). It's not > restricted to programming. It's a general purpose tool. I saw an article the other day where someone replaced their Linux init with Make, and saw a significant boot time reduction due to parallelism and automatic dependency resolution that scheduled the system bringup more effectively. Nifty! b.g. -- Bill Gatliff b...@billgatliff.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: merge multi symbol components
Kai-Martin Knaak wrote: > On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:00:01 -0400, John Doty wrote: > >> But the idea >> that computers can actually automate your workflow has been lost in the >> "personal computer" era. The strength of gEDA is that you *can* automate >> it: > > You have praised this many times before. Ironically, one of the > weaknesses of gEDA is a lack of scriptability. Even pcb with all its > actions is only half way there. > That was my impression as well. After kicking the tires for a while and finding important things it cannot do which my current CAD can do, most of the answers I received were along the lines of "can't do that right now", "needs a fork", "give some money, maybe someone will code this in" and so on. So I've hung up on gEDA for now. But this doesn't mean I won't check back in regularly because the idea of open source CAD is great. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: merge multi symbol components
On Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:00:01 -0400, John Doty wrote: > But the idea > that computers can actually automate your workflow has been lost in the > "personal computer" era. The strength of gEDA is that you *can* automate > it: You have praised this many times before. Ironically, one of the weaknesses of gEDA is a lack of scriptability. Even pcb with all its actions is only half way there. ---<(kaimartin)>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: merge multi symbol components
On Jul 23, 2009, at 9:56 AM, David C. Kerber wrote: >> >> You want high productivity processes, you're going to have to >> invest a little time learning the tools that multiply >> productivity. > > Eclipse does that wonderfully; it has mature C development tools as > well as Java. Make can orchestrate simulations, document construction, data reduction, and much more (including, of course EDA). It's not restricted to programming. It's a general purpose tool. But the idea that computers can actually automate your workflow has been lost in the "personal computer" era. The strength of gEDA is that you *can* automate it: I can grab the schematics and other "source" files for a project from my server, and then a single command, make, generates all design documents. John Doty Noqsi Aerospace, Ltd. http://www.noqsi.com/ j...@noqsi.com ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Learning Spice: TwoStageAmp example
On Thursday 23 July 2009, Daniel B. Thurman wrote: > al davis wrote: > > On Monday 20 July 2009, Daniel B. Thurman wrote: > >> Also, I would appreciate it if someone could point > >> me to a tutorial or sample project that shows how > >> one can do spice simulation! > > > > Did you look at what Stefan suggested for Gnucap? > > Yes, I did > > >>> Very basic: > >>> http://www.johannes-bauer.com/electronics/ > > I have gotten all the way though to the point of trying > to display the curves with `gwave'. The problem is with > Fedora's 9/10/11 gwave builds, or so I think. > > It seems there is a problem with gwave builds on Fedora. > (crash) > > I reported this problem on the Fedora-Users mailing list and > so far no response. It works for me on Debian, without crashing. I wouldn't expect a response on the Fedora-Users list, but you should be able to get help here. I believe Chitlesh Goorah maintains the Fedora package for gwave. He monitors this list. Chitlesh, can you help??? Usually I run gwave from the gnucap prompt ... gnucap> tran 0 1u .01u trace all >z gnucap> !gwave z & ! says run a shell command, & says to detach like the shell does. > I tried to build gwave from sources but > there was a problem in which make was failing to locate > gnome2 modules, so I gave up. There is a library you need that is not installed. I don't know what they are called in Fedora, so I can't tell you which one. You need the "dev" versions of the libraries, which are not installed by default. Does the configure output give you any clues? It doesn't work very well. > I also downloaded the ngspice source, did a build, and all > compiled with success, but issuing a `make check' revealed > that the tests fail short starting with the bipolar models > and quits where there are many more tests to go. You need to ask the ngspice people about this. I do know that there is a difference in math functions between AMD-64 and Intel processors, so the results could be a little different. The differences are not significant, but could cause tests to fail if they are based on text file comparisons. > For some reason, it seems I cannot get a simulation to work > with the gEDA tools and I thought I was doing something very > wrong, and that is why I was asking for a tutorial > explaining, step-by-step, so as to demonstrate that the these > tools actually work. So far, it has not, with the tutorials > I have been working with. I don't use gspiceui .. It just goes against the way I want to work. Usually, I run gnucap interactively, from the command line. The netlister isn't perfect. You should use the "spice- sdb" netlister, not plain spice. Even so, often I need to manually edit the netlist to make it work. Working with files as I usually do, I can deal with it. With a GUI, the slightest imperfection makes the whole thing useless. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Learning Spice: TwoStageAmp example
al davis wrote: > On Monday 20 July 2009, Daniel B. Thurman wrote: > >> Also, I would appreciate it if someone could point >> me to a tutorial or sample project that shows how >> one can do spice simulation! >> > Did you look at what Stefan suggested for Gnucap? > Yes, I did >>> Very basic: >>> http://www.johannes-bauer.com/electronics/ >>> I have gotten all the way though to the point of trying to display the curves with `gwave'. The problem is with Fedora's 9/10/11 gwave builds, or so I think. It seems there is a problem with gwave builds on Fedora. As reported, if you start `gwave mycircuit.out', nothing appears at all, but then seconds later a crash dump appears on the command line where initiated and bugzilla pops up with the crash file to be saved. If starting `gwave' by itself, the application pops up, but then selecting" `File->Read File...' results in the with dump errors and the bugzilla application pops up for crash dump saves. I reported this problem on the Fedora-Users mailing list and so far no response. I tried to build gwave from sources but there was a problem in which make was failing to locate gnome2 modules, so I gave up. I also downloaded the ngspice source, did a build, and all compiled with success, but issuing a `make check' revealed that the tests fail short starting with the bipolar models and quits where there are many more tests to go. For some reason, it seems I cannot get a simulation to work with the gEDA tools and I thought I was doing something very wrong, and that is why I was asking for a tutorial explaining, step-by-step, so as to demonstrate that the these tools actually work. So far, it has not, with the tutorials I have been working with. >>> And gnucap documentation: >>> http://wiki.gnucap.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=gnucap:manual >>> > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Learning Spice: TwoStageAmp example
On Monday 20 July 2009, Daniel B. Thurman wrote: > Also, I would appreciate it if someone could point > me to a tutorial or sample project that shows how > one can do spice simulation! Did you look at what Stefan suggested for Gnucap? >>Very basic: >>http://www.johannes-bauer.com/electronics/ >>And gnucap documentation: >>http://wiki.gnucap.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=gnucap:manual ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: runtime error with first run of gaw
Hi, downloaded both gaw-20090629 and gaw-20080102 and both compiled on my gentoo box. When started first time, the 2009 versioin got a segmentation fault: (process:19513): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: gtype.c:2458: initialization assertion failed, use IA__g_type_init() prior to this function (process:19513): GLib-CRITICAL **: g_once_init_leave: assertion `initialization_value != 0' failed (process:19513): GLib-GObject-CRITICAL **: gtype.c:2458: initialization assertion failed, use IA__g_type_init() prior to this function Segmentation fault When starting it a second time, everything was ok. Turns out that when I delete the .gaw/ directory in my home, the application dies the first time it is run afterwards, but after that, it starts ok. I verified this behaviour on both the 2008 and 2009 versioin. Just thought I should let you know in case somebody want to try out gaw and give up after the first slap in the face. -- Svenn ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Running a mixed analog and digital simulation possible?
I'm very interested in this also. On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 1:15 PM, Svenn Are Bjerkem wrote: > 2009/7/23 al davis : >> Someone is working on a config file for ADMS to generate the >> native gnucap interface which is more efficient, and supports >> mixed-mode. I don't know how far along it is. > > You mention mixed-mode for gnucap. I guess you mean by that that both > digital and analog can be simulated at once? I have tried the analog > simulation capabilities of gnucap, and is it also possible to feed a > digital netlist to it? Can it be RTL or must it be structural down to > basic gates? If that is the case, which netlist format language do you > use? Verilog, VHDL or something else? > > -- > Svenn > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Running a mixed analog and digital simulation possible?
2009/7/23 al davis : > Someone is working on a config file for ADMS to generate the > native gnucap interface which is more efficient, and supports > mixed-mode. I don't know how far along it is. You mention mixed-mode for gnucap. I guess you mean by that that both digital and analog can be simulated at once? I have tried the analog simulation capabilities of gnucap, and is it also possible to feed a digital netlist to it? Can it be RTL or must it be structural down to basic gates? If that is the case, which netlist format language do you use? Verilog, VHDL or something else? -- Svenn ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Running a mixed analog and digital simulation possible?
On Thursday 23 July 2009, r wrote: > There is also an experimental ADMS add-in for ngspice. Not > sure whether it is usable now, though. ADMS has nothing to do with mixed signal. It is a model compiler .. It takes a subset of Verilog-A and compiles it to C so it can be used with a simulator. The exact output format is defined by a XML-based config file. ADMS was developed by Motorola (now Freescale) as a migration tool to get us away from simulator-specific models. For spice (including NGspice) you still need to make mods to the core to accomodate the new model, so it is not something a typical end user can do. The same C code also should work with Gnucap, as a plugin using the spice-wrapper interface. Most spice models work, but a few don't. Someone is working on a config file for ADMS to generate the native gnucap interface which is more efficient, and supports mixed-mode. I don't know how far along it is. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Running a mixed analog and digital simulation possible?
Hi, There is also an experimental ADMS add-in for ngspice. Not sure whether it is usable now, though. Cheers, -r. On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 9:44 AM, Svenn Are Bjerkem wrote: > Hi, > > I have been searching a bit on the net to try to find out if it is > possible to run a mixed-signal simulation with open-source tools. So > far I have mostly been using digital VHDL only and I find that the > VHDL path is not there yet. Icarus seems to have some Verilog-AMS in > place, and it seems like gnucap is used as the back end. Anybody has a > pointer to a HOWTO for VAMS with icarus and gnucap? > > A different thing is the mixed-signal simulation. So far the > commercial tools I have used use some kind of interface blocks between > analog domain and digital domain and run an analog and a digital > simulator in parallel to speed up the digital part. Is something like > this available in the open-source domain? > > Nanosim seems to have a different approach: The accuracy is adjusted > down for digital parts to lower the computing while keeping analog > parts decent and both run in the same simulator. > > I only have access to commercial grade digital simulators, but would > like to widen my horizon into mixed-signal. > > -- > Svenn > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: add Logo to silkscreen in pcb, exactly how to insert the EPS?
Mark Rages wrote: > Note that polygons aren't allowed in element/footprint files. But rectangles can be converted to lines using enhanced pcb support in pstoedit (not yet released in the upstream version): http://www.gedasymbols.org/user/stanislav_brabec/ The heuristic does not support other shapes, but it should be possible to write more complicated heuristic to convert any shapes to line around the shape periphery and hatching the inner surface. It would be interesting not only for logos, but also for elliptic pads. -- Stanislav Brabec http://www.penguin.cz/~utx ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: merge multi symbol components
> -Original Message- > From: geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org > [mailto:geda-user-boun...@moria.seul.org] On Behalf Of John Doty > Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 5:48 PM > To: gEDA user mailing list > Subject: Re: gEDA-user: merge multi symbol components ... > >> But for usability, the issue is one of scripting at a > higher level. I > >> love the way gnetlist interoperates so well with make, but > users seem > >> increasingly impatient and helpless these days. Maybe a missing > >> ingredient is a Makefile creator. > > > > The problem I see is that there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of > > stuff around that requires Make > > Billions of lines of code in various languages are turned > into executable code via processes that use make. This > includes gEDA and PCB. But make is a flexible tool for many > other processes, too. I realize that, but not every process uses it; there are other tools and methods available to accomplish the same thing for most workflows. > > (mainly C languages, and not in all of their environments), so many > > engineers aren't familiar with it. That makes it another hurdle on > > the learning curve to their eda tools. > > You want high productivity processes, you're going to have to > invest a little time learning the tools that multiply > productivity. Eclipse does that wonderfully; it has mature C development tools as well as Java. > Make is a classic example of a very simple tool > that is a very effective productivity multiplier. > > > My programming is mostly done in java using Eclipse, so I > don't deal > > with Make at all. > > Ugh. What you gonna do when you need a microcontroller > running the show? Either farm the code development out to somebody who already knows how to do it, or (more likely) use one of the embedded versions of Java with lower resource requirements. Or if I have lots of time to work with, learn it myself. I thoroughly enjoy learning new ways of doing things, but don't always have the time to indulge myself in that way. D ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Icarus: Synthesize Verilog to Verilog
Is it possible to use Icarus to simplify Verilog code? I would like to use Berkeley VL2MV/VIS and SIS or ABC, however these tools understand only a very limited subset to verilog. Can Icarus be used to synthesize Verilog into a simplified Verilog? SIS and ABC seem to be a good tools for optimization and can do some technology mapping. The Verilog subset understood by VL2MV (which I use to convert Verilog to BLIF, which is used by SIS and ABC) is a bit limited, e.g. no functions, no multiplication or division. Details can be found in http://www.zemris.fer.hr/labosi/osstr/doc/vl2mv.pdf If Icarus could "synthesize" Verilog to a simplified Verilog usable by VL2MV, this would lead e.g. to an improved open flow for ASIC design. Philipp P.S.: I tried building Icarus 0.9.1 with the verilog target (moving the tgt-verilog directory from NOUSED to SUBDIRS in Makefile.in), but still get an error message: kraus...@kauai:~/ftc_dec$ /usr/local/scratch/usr2/bin/iverilog -o test-v -tverilog ftc_dec.v ERROR: Unable to read config file: /usr/local/scratch/usr2/lib/ivl/verilog.conf : error: target_design entry point is missing. error: Code generator failure: -2 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: Running a mixed analog and digital simulation possible?
Hi, I have been searching a bit on the net to try to find out if it is possible to run a mixed-signal simulation with open-source tools. So far I have mostly been using digital VHDL only and I find that the VHDL path is not there yet. Icarus seems to have some Verilog-AMS in place, and it seems like gnucap is used as the back end. Anybody has a pointer to a HOWTO for VAMS with icarus and gnucap? A different thing is the mixed-signal simulation. So far the commercial tools I have used use some kind of interface blocks between analog domain and digital domain and run an analog and a digital simulator in parallel to speed up the digital part. Is something like this available in the open-source domain? Nanosim seems to have a different approach: The accuracy is adjusted down for digital parts to lower the computing while keeping analog parts decent and both run in the same simulator. I only have access to commercial grade digital simulators, but would like to widen my horizon into mixed-signal. -- Svenn ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
