Re: gEDA-user: More eye-candy
On 15/10/09 05:25, Peter Clifton wrote: > I think it takes a good board to show off the potential benefits of the > 3D view, so I've made another screen-shot. > > The board is by John Bass (jb...@dmsd.com), Copyright 2007 DMS Design. > > http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~pcjc2/geda/pcb+gl_3d/pcb+gl_3d-6.png > > > I don't have any>2 layer designs myself. > > > Best wishes, > > Peter C. > > > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user Whoa, that's awesome! Are there any plans to add support for realistic component meshes? The ability to show someone the final product without ever touching a component would be awesome. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, it shouldn't be _too_ difficult to add code for; the 3D component model would just need some metadata to state where, in 2D space, each pin/pad is, the pinnumber of each of those pins/pads, a single coordinate for the vertical pin/pad location for all pins/pads (since it's safe to assume all components can fit on a plane), and a reference to the filename of the 2D footprint the model fits to. The default rotation for the models should be the same as for their matching footprints to minimise the post-processing needed, and from there on it's trivial to line up the first pin/pad of the model with the first pin/pad of the footprint. The DRC code to test pin alignment and model collisions also wouldn't be amazingly complex. Another benefit of this all is that allows a height parameter for DRC. But blergh, now I'm rambling about something that probably won't happen anyway. ~Peter ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: More eye-candy
> I don't have any >2 layer designs myself. Here you go... http://www.delorie.com/electronics/alarmclock/board.pcb (esp the ground plane clearances under the crystals and switcher) http://www.delorie.com/electronics/usb-gpio/usb-gpio-pp.pcb (has lots of curvy bits) http://www.delorie.com/electronics/sdram/m32c-sdram.pcb (this one's kinda boring, but has serpentines) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: More eye-candy
On Oct 14, 2009, at 11:25 PM, Peter Clifton wrote: > I think it takes a good board to show off the potential benefits of > the > 3D view, so I've made another screen-shot. > > The board is by John Bass (jb...@dmsd.com), Copyright 2007 DMS Design. > > http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~pcjc2/geda/pcb+gl_3d/pcb+gl_3d-6.png Wow wow WOW that's impressive. I'm super busy hacking (and moving, ugh!) mainframes for work right now, but I hope to be able to try to build this (OS X and/or Solaris) in a few weeks. -Dave -- Dave McGuire Port Charlotte, FL ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: More eye-candy
I think it takes a good board to show off the potential benefits of the 3D view, so I've made another screen-shot. The board is by John Bass (jb...@dmsd.com), Copyright 2007 DMS Design. http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~pcjc2/geda/pcb+gl_3d/pcb+gl_3d-6.png I don't have any >2 layer designs myself. Best wishes, Peter C. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB+GL+3D (Z-coord) Eye-candy
On Wed, 2009-10-14 at 09:36 -0700, Mike Bushroe wrote: > WOW, that looks nice! And having that might help me to remember that >PCB keeps defaulting to putting the rat lines on the component side >for a single sided board, so when I finally produce the board, I have >to turn it over and flip all the components. >Mike Rat lines have no default layer, they are just drawn on top of which ever view is shown. I wonder if the issue you've noted is due to the fact that layer 1, the default selected drawing layer is "component". Switching to layer 2 "solder" before drawing any tracks is probably what you need to do. Best wishes, Peter C. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: net= attributes, symbols and schematics
Stephen Williams wrote: > I'm planing a circuit where some chips have a wide variety of > different power supply requirements. Assuming the nice star pattern of power distribution from the source and back will assemble itself is a lost cause, so there's no need to pre label every part with a type of power. If you have more than one "source" of power, be sure it floats with respect to the other one and still make one be "the one" that is the center of a star. . . . create pins for all the various > power types of the chip, or whatever. . . Some chip pins can be from filtered/locally-filtered versions of the central power, with separate returns to the one source. > I wonder if > there is a better way, that might be more DRC-friendly. there's no DRC very good for power layout. John Griessen -- Ecosensory Austin TX ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: net= attributes, symbols and schematics
On Wed, 14 Oct 2009 15:58:14 -0700, Stephen Williams wrote: > I'm planing a circuit where some chips have a wide variety of different > power supply requirements. I'm debating with myself whether I should > create symbols that have net= attributes for all the various power > types, or if I should attach attributes from outside the symbol, or > create pins for all the various power types of the chip, or whatever. Invisible information in the schematic is bad(tm). That's why I prefer separated power symbols. These explicitly wear all the power pins a component needs. They can be put somewhere in the backwaters of the sheet. That way I avoid cluttering of the schematic but still have all the power pins visible in print. However, support for such multi part symbols is not complete, yet. Renumber does not honor shared refdeses. The part with the footprint attribute has to be inserted last. ---<(kaimartin)>--- -- Kai-Martin Knaak Öffentlicher PGP-Schlüssel: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x6C0B9F53 ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: net= attributes, symbols and schematics
I'm planing a circuit where some chips have a wide variety of different power supply requirements. I'm debating with myself whether I should create symbols that have net= attributes for all the various power types, or if I should attach attributes from outside the symbol, or create pins for all the various power types of the chip, or whatever. In the past I've attached net= attributes to the symbol at the schematic level. That worked well enough, but I wonder if there is a better way, that might be more DRC-friendly. -- Steve Williams"The woods are lovely, dark and deep. steve at icarus.com But I have promises to keep, http://www.icarus.com and lines to code before I sleep, http://www.picturel.com And lines to code before I sleep." ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: rotate smd parts 0603
On Wed, 2009-10-14 at 14:34 +0200, Klaus Rudolph wrote: > > But is it not a typical work flow to first move and rotate the parts, do > the layout and after that move the labels around? If I first move the > labels, they may appear near another element. This makes things a bit > difficult to handle... > What I did for my DSO board with 1000 elements: I made all silk text (refdes) invisible (move pointer over the element and press "H" key, or select multiple elements and press SHIFT H to hide all text.) Or lock the text to the element, so that text and pads are one entity. Later select "Only names" to position the text. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB burn in spec?
That would be a burn UP spec, not a burn IN spec ;-) ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB burn in spec?
I don't know about burn-in specs, but one usually specifies a glass temperature (Tg) and a destruction temperature (Td) for the PCB material you want to use (typically FR-4). I don't recall the nominal Td and Tg we used to use, but I do know they is now higher due to the RoHS directives. A quick Google search suggests that IPC-4101 provies specifications which might be what you are looking for. Cheers, Stuart On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Ellec, Chris wrote: > > Can somebody recommends burn in spec. for PCB such as time vs. > temperature? Is there a mil spec for that? I could only find mil-spec > for burning in individual IC, not PCB (mil-std-883 for example). > > Thanks, > > Chris. > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user > ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: PCB burn in spec?
Can somebody recommends burn in spec. for PCB such as time vs. temperature? Is there a mil spec for that? I could only find mil-spec for burning in individual IC, not PCB (mil-std-883 for example). Thanks, Chris. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB+GL+3D (Z-coord) Eye-candy
WOW, that looks nice! And having that might help me to remember that PCB keeps defaulting to putting the rat lines on the component side for a single sided board, so when I finally produce the board, I have to turn it over and flip all the components. Mike ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB+GL+3D (Z-coord) Eye-candy
On Wed, 2009-10-14 at 07:54 -0400, Ethan Swint wrote: > > Just proof of concept stuff... > > > > http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~pcjc2/geda/pcb+gl_3d/ > > > > There isn't anything clever here.. just the same PCB+GL translucent > > rendering I had before, but with a 3D virtual trackball to rotate the > > viewport. > > > > > Very cool! How do you set the origin for the viewport? The origin for rotation is the centre of the visible screen. The old pan and zoom actions (scroll bars etc..) are used to adjust the piece of the board being previewed. Still a bit of a mix of paradigms, (2D + 3D), but it seems to work well enough for a demo. > One thing you > might want to do is to provide a number box for azimuth, elevation, and > z-angle, and z-distance (optional, for zoom) from the origin to the > camera. That's the easiest way to reset your view when things get > squirrelly from the oval graphic control or revisit an angle that you > liked previously. Good idea, thanks. Btw.. here are the diffstats - I was surprised how little went into the 3D, and how much the trackball stuff. Fortunately I didn't have to write the "src/hid/common/trackball.[ch]" stuff!: commit e51da0c0c469a172ee0785569e24031b771bf19d Author: Peter Clifton Date: Wed Oct 14 14:43:27 2009 +0100 Shiny 3D eye-candy Experiments in progress - don't expect this to work yet! src/draw.c | 88 ++- src/hid/gtk/gtkhid-main.c | 22 ++- src/hid/gtk/gui-output-events.c | 130 +-- 3 files changed, 146 insertions(+), 94 deletions(-) commit 3937d586f92bad93f657945a39af7ce14a3f4521 Author: Peter Clifton Date: Wed Oct 14 14:43:21 2009 +0100 Add support for depth to triangle rendering routines. Nasty global depth_state variable should be replaced! src/hid/common/hidgl.c |9 - src/hid/common/hidgl.h |7 ++- 2 files changed, 14 insertions(+), 2 deletions(-) commit cbed9fbbee5a189d574575fc2bb8ba05d1c8bb3c Author: Peter Clifton Date: Wed Oct 14 14:43:19 2009 +0100 Add debug catch to triangle handling If for any reason we are about to run off the end of the triangle array, deliberately segfault so gdb can catch where. src/hid/common/hidgl.h |4 1 files changed, 4 insertions(+), 0 deletions(-) commit 4f134e44178d857a053b357a60a8835c1e7c8270 Author: Peter Clifton Date: Wed Oct 14 14:40:48 2009 +0100 Use trackball to allow rotation of 3D view src/hid/gtk/gui-output-events.c | 64 +++--- src/hid/gtk/gui-top-window.c|9 +- src/hid/gtk/gui.h |2 + 3 files changed, 62 insertions(+), 13 deletions(-) commit d4095396743490248f7530704b36502a5b28feff Author: Peter Clifton Date: Wed Oct 14 14:40:47 2009 +0100 Add virtual trackball code src/Makefile.am |7 +- src/hid/common/trackball.c | 324 + src/hid/common/trackball.h | 78 ++ src/hid/gtk/gui-trackball.c | 334 +++ src/hid/gtk/gui-trackball.h | 66 + 5 files changed, 808 insertions(+), 1 deletions(-) Best wishes, Peter. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb: moving components to other side
> and I think, to flip the parts around a middle line or the center of the > board is not really what a user want. If you've selected many elements, this is the best we can do, and it keeps the group of elements in the same position relative to each other once they're moved. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: rotate smd parts 0603
> If I set "settings->lock names" I could rotate the element if the name > is visible. "Lock names" locks the element names relative to the element, so you don't keep accidentally moving the name when you intend to move the whole element. I do most of my PCB editing with names locked. > If silk layer is switched of, I could not rotate the element. If any part of the element is not available (like silk), the whole element is not selectable. > Switching "settings->only names" on or off has no effect. "Only names" keeps you from selecting the element when you intend to move the names. This mode is for rearranging all the refdes's once the elements are placed. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: rotate smd parts 0603
On 10/14/09, Klaus Rudolph wrote: > I think the "no rotation of elements if silk layer is off" is a bit > mysterious. > > The lock names setting is my work around for the problem, so I can do my > work. But I think this is not the behavior which is expected. Who don't expect unexpected, shall not see invisible. These are just PCB habits the user is to become used to; I think they are not worse than the habits of other feature-rich programs. Regards, Ineiev ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: Color PS output
Thanks guys. On Tue, Oct 13, 2009 at 5:09 PM, Gareth Edwards wrote: > 2009/9/30 Peter TB Brett : >> Try adding the following to your gafrc: >> >> (load (build-path geda-rc-path "print-colormap-lightbg")) >> > > Thanks, Peter, that works for me and I've update the wiki to reflect this. > > Gareth > > > ___ > geda-user mailing list > geda-user@moria.seul.org > http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user > -- http://evanfoss.googlepages.com/ ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: rotate smd parts 0603
Stefan Salewski schrieb: > On Wed, 2009-10-14 at 08:51 +0200, Klaus Rudolph wrote: >> Ineiev schrieb: >>> On 10/13/09, Klaus Rudolph wrote: I try to rotate some smd parts (0603) on the layout,m but only the silk layer rotates. If I switch of the silk layer, I could not rotate anything. Rotating SO14 is working. Sorry, I am to silly to rotate a simple smd device :-) >>> Can you remove all other objects from that board and post it here? >> I added the file with one element added with gsch2pcb and one added manual. >> >> If I set "settings->lock names" I could rotate the element if the name >> is visible. If silk layer is switched of, I could not rotate the element. >> >> Switching "settings->only names" on or off has no effect. >> >> plain text document attachment (test001.pcb) > > Well... > > You have the text above the pads. > So rotate tool rotates the text. How can the tool guess that you wants > to rotate the pads? if I switch off the silk layer, the got the same result, not the element nor the text is rotated if I move the text away from the symbol, i can rotate the symbol BUT! if I switch of the silk layer and have the text moved away I am NOT! able to rotate the element! Is this intended? > > So lock the text, or move it away first. Having silk text on pads is not > good for soldering... I agree :-) But is it not a typical work flow to first move and rotate the parts, do the layout and after that move the labels around? If I first move the labels, they may appear near another element. This makes things a bit difficult to handle... I think the "no rotation of elements if silk layer is off" is a bit mysterious. The lock names setting is my work around for the problem, so I can do my work. But I think this is not the behavior which is expected. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: rotate smd parts 0603
On Wed, 2009-10-14 at 08:51 +0200, Klaus Rudolph wrote: > Ineiev schrieb: > > On 10/13/09, Klaus Rudolph wrote: > >> I try to rotate some smd parts (0603) on the layout,m but only the silk > >> layer rotates. If I switch of the silk layer, I could not rotate > >> anything. Rotating SO14 is working. Sorry, I am to silly to rotate a > >> simple smd device :-) > > > > Can you remove all other objects from that board and post it here? > > I added the file with one element added with gsch2pcb and one added manual. > > If I set "settings->lock names" I could rotate the element if the name > is visible. If silk layer is switched of, I could not rotate the element. > > Switching "settings->only names" on or off has no effect. > > plain text document attachment (test001.pcb) Well... You have the text above the pads. So rotate tool rotates the text. How can the tool guess that you wants to rotate the pads? So lock the text, or move it away first. Having silk text on pads is not good for soldering... ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: PCB+GL+3D (Z-coord) Eye-candy
> Just proof of concept stuff... > > http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~pcjc2/geda/pcb+gl_3d/ > > There isn't anything clever here.. just the same PCB+GL translucent > rendering I had before, but with a 3D virtual trackball to rotate the > viewport. > > Very cool! How do you set the origin for the viewport? One thing you might want to do is to provide a number box for azimuth, elevation, and z-angle, and z-distance (optional, for zoom) from the origin to the camera. That's the easiest way to reset your view when things get squirrelly from the oval graphic control or revisit an angle that you liked previously. -Ethan ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb: moving components to other side
Stefan Salewski schrieb: > On Wed, 2009-10-14 at 13:19 +0200, Stefan Salewski wrote: >> On Wed, 2009-10-14 at 10:07 +0200, Klaus Rudolph wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> if I move a component to the other side of the board, the part is moved >>> to a total different position! >>> >>> I expected that the part is on the same place but on the other side. >>> >>> What I did wrong? >>> >>> >> How do you move the elements to the other side? >> I guess you move the mouse pointer over the element and press "B" key? >> >> This seems to flip the part relative to the mouse pointer for vertical >> position. But relative to center of element for horizontal position. >> >> No idea why. >> > > OK, you may have selected the element first and used SHIFT "B" to flip. > > Seems to be a mirror operation relative to the center of the board? > maybe, but this is not what I need ;) and I think, to flip the parts around a middle line or the center of the board is not really what a user want. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb: moving components to other side
On Wed, 2009-10-14 at 13:19 +0200, Stefan Salewski wrote: > On Wed, 2009-10-14 at 10:07 +0200, Klaus Rudolph wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > if I move a component to the other side of the board, the part is moved > > to a total different position! > > > > I expected that the part is on the same place but on the other side. > > > > What I did wrong? > > > > > > How do you move the elements to the other side? > I guess you move the mouse pointer over the element and press "B" key? > > This seems to flip the part relative to the mouse pointer for vertical > position. But relative to center of element for horizontal position. > > No idea why. > OK, you may have selected the element first and used SHIFT "B" to flip. Seems to be a mirror operation relative to the center of the board? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
Re: gEDA-user: pcb: moving components to other side
On Wed, 2009-10-14 at 10:07 +0200, Klaus Rudolph wrote: > Hi all, > > if I move a component to the other side of the board, the part is moved > to a total different position! > > I expected that the part is on the same place but on the other side. > > What I did wrong? > > How do you move the elements to the other side? I guess you move the mouse pointer over the element and press "B" key? This seems to flip the part relative to the mouse pointer for vertical position. But relative to center of element for horizontal position. No idea why. ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
gEDA-user: pcb: moving components to other side
Hi all, if I move a component to the other side of the board, the part is moved to a total different position! I expected that the part is on the same place but on the other side. What I did wrong? ___ geda-user mailing list geda-user@moria.seul.org http://www.seul.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/geda-user
